Why Facts Don't Change Minds

In this episode, we're joined by Drew Dumsch, President and CEO of the Ecology School at River Bend Farm in Maine. Drew co-founded the organization 26 years ago with a premise that felt radical then and feels essential now: that ecological literacy — learning to read the landscape the way you learn to read a book — is foundational to creating engaged, compassionate citizens capable of understanding complex systems.

This conversation challenges the assumption that more information will save us. Instead, it offers a different path: one grounded in systems thinking, regenerative principles, and the radical act of kindness in a moment defined by casual cruelty.

Key Topics Discussed

• Why traditional environmental education fails to create lasting change
• The disconnect between climate knowledge and climate action
• Systems thinking vs. factual learning: what creates ecological literacy
• How regenerative principles extend beyond agriculture to learning and leadership
• Building bipartisan consensus in an era of toxic polarization
• The relationship between hope, understanding, and agency
• Meeting people where they are vs. demanding perfection
• Why collaboration (not competition) is the only path forward
• The role of compassion in climate action
• What it means to reimagine the future now, not later

Notable Quotes

"Being told facts is not the purpose of education. Facts are part of becoming a well-rounded human being and an engaged citizen, but I think a huge gap is that as a society, we lack the ability to understand systems." — Drew Dumsch

"You could create sustainability through fascism and cruelty. It may be sustainable, but is that a vibrant community you want to live in?" — Drew Dumsch

"Showing up to work every day is my act of rebellion." — Drew Dumsch

"Hope is based on both understanding of what can be and then agency to be a part of that." — Drew Dumsch

"People want the simple solution. That's boring. I think the level of diversity in solutions is exciting and creative." — Drew Dumsch

Resources

The Ecology School at River Bend Farm
Website: theecologyschool.org
LinkedIn: The Ecology School
Instagram: @ecologyschool

Mentioned in the Episode:

• The Triple Focus: A New Approach to Education by Daniel Goleman and Peter Senge
• Maine Outdoor School for All network
• Living Building Challenge

P.S. — Feeling a disconnect between your mission and your brand? Cosmic helps social impact leaders build trust through story-rich brands, compelling campaigns, and values-aligned strategy. Let's talk about how to elevate your impact: https://designbycosmic.com/

*** If you liked this episode, please help spread the word. Share with your friends or co-workers, post it to social media, “follow” or “subscribe” in your podcast app, or write a review on Apple Podcasts. We could not do this without you!

We love hearing feedback from our community, so please email us with your questions or comments — including topics you’d like us to cover in future episodes — at podcast@designbycosmic.com

Thank you for all that you do for your cause and for being part of the movement to move humanity and the planet forward.