Dental Practice Heroes
Where dentists learn how to cut clinical days while increasing profits - without sacrificing patient care, cutting corners, or cranking volume. We teach you how to grow a scalable practice through communication, leadership, and effective management.
Hosted by Dr. Paul Etchison, author of two books on dental practice management, dental coach, and owner of a $6M collections group practice in the south suburbs of Chicago, we provide actionable advice for practice owners who want to intentionally create more time to enjoy their families, wealth, and deep personal fulfillment.
If you want to build a scalable practice framework that no longer stresses, drains, or relies on you for every little thing, we will teach you how and share stories of other dentists who have done it!
Dental Practice Heroes
Selling vs. Staying: The Eight-Figure Practice Decision
Your practice is thriving, so why not sell? DPH coach Dr. Steve Markowitz owns a six-practice dental group and seriously considered cashing out, but he realized he wasn't ready to let go.
In this episode, he shares why he decided not to sell even after hitting his $10M revenue goal and what changed about his approach to ownership. You'll hear the changes that helped him become a better leader, shift out of burnout, and redefine his purpose. Learn why selling isn't always the best move!
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Why Steve didn’t sell his practice
- Reevaluating the practice and his role as owner
- The new goal for his practice
- Changes that leveled up his practice
- What he does to grow as a leader
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Take Control of Your Practice and Your Life
We help dentists take more time off while making more money through systematization, team empowerment, and creating leadership teams.
Ready to build a practice that works for you? Visit www.DentalPracticeHeroes.com to learn more.
If your practice was worth well into eight-figure land, would you consider selling it? Well, you know Dr Steve Markowitz from the show. He's a co-host, he's one of the DPH coaches and he owns six practices, and today we're going to dig deeper into why he personally has not sold any of his practices. He built an awesome group, hired an investment banker and got serious about selling at one point, but still decided it wasn't his time. In this episode, we talk about the deeper questions that he had to ask himself and the changes in his mindset that helped him focus on leadership, growth beyond revenue and the next phase of his business. That was right for him personally. This is an extremely enlightening episode and one that you're not going to want to miss, no matter where you are in your practice career. Stay tuned. You are listening to Dental Practice Heroes, where we help you to create a team and system-driven dental practice, one that allows you to practice less and make more money. I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, a dental coach, author of two books on dental practice management and the owner of a five-doctor practice in the south suburbs of Chicago. I want to show you how being intentional about ownership can create a practice that supports your life instead of consuming it. So if you're ready to create a true business that runs without you, you're in the right place. Let's get started.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the Dental Practice Heroes podcast. I'm your host, dr Paul Etchison, and I'm joined by one of my DPH coaches, a good friend, dr Steve Markowitz, who's got tons of experience in the dental industry. I mean, he's got multiple practices. He's looking really good today. He's got a I want to describe this for the listeners is he's got a nice trim haircut. He's got about maybe not a five o'clock haircut. He's got about maybe not a five o'clock but maybe an eight o'clock shadow. He's nicely stubble short, stubble kind of like as we like to do. He's got a golf shirt on.
Speaker 1:I don't know if he's going golfing. Is he going golfing?
Speaker 2:I'm not going golfing today, but I knew that we were going to be talking and I was like I'm going to shower today.
Speaker 1:I'm going to put on really good today. I don't know how I can tell that, but I can just look at it. I can see it. You just know when someone smells good, you can look at it and I just know right now. So, dude, we're talking about. You know this is a great topic because this is something that I get asked all the time Are you happy you sold? Are you happy you sold? I Are you happy you sold? I'm almost five years out from my sale and Steve's in a situation where he's got six practices, a large EBITDA, a large organization where I think most people with a single practice would say they would have sold a long time ago. But it's easy to say when you're not in the situation. So we thought we would go deep into Steve why do you still own all these practices and have you ever considered selling? So I mean, what are your thoughts on the matter? I know this is something you've thought about.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, and it's probably the question that I get from outside dentists, one of the top couple questions that I get all the time of what makes you keep going? Why do you, why don't you, why don't you sell and cash out and go live on a beach and go hang out with Paul? It's not that I don't want to do all those things, it's just that I don't think I'm there yet, and what I mean by that is I don't know what I would do with my time. It still fills my bucket, it fills my days and I, in some capacity, am really enjoying what I'm doing, and I think there's more that I have to give. As I'm saying it now, it sounds corny For people who know my story.
Speaker 2:My dad was a dentist. He wanted to create a group. The name of my group is MFD. I never got the opportunity to work with my dad. He's still alive, but had a bad accident. Mfd stands for my fucking dad to work with my dad. He's still alive, but had a bad accident. Mfd stands for my fucking dad. It's just a tribute to him.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that and last year I was really struggling with who we are as a group and like do I have what it takes to keep going? Am I good enough? And we had a practice that didn't work out as well as I thought it had. It was my first kind of setback that didn't work out as well as I thought it had. It was my first kind of setback and I was like, maybe this is it, maybe I've kind of taken this as far as I can.
Speaker 2:So I hired an investment bank and I went through the process of evaluating and seeing what was out there and as I got through that process, two things happened. One it felt empty. Seeing the dollar amount, I was like the mission or the vision is to have this be tribute to my dad, who wanted to create this group that would take great care of people and be a place where people love to go to work. So putting the dollar amount that I was looking at didn't match the value that I thought I had created and it felt I don't know if it was disappointing, but it was like that's not enough for what I want my father's legacy to be. I mean, it's enough for me to live on, but it didn't fill that bucket. And then the second part that happened, which I think is even more beautiful to me personally is my wife is way smarter and prettier than me. She doesn't smell as good as I do, paul, but you know that.
Speaker 1:That's like one of those things is, you know, like you know, somebody smells good. I knew your wife was made way prettier than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get that a lot and she is incredibly operational, sound and understands people at a level that I work towards. She was in biotech for years and was climbing the corporate ladder and she saw that I was going through this process and understanding what it meant, but also knew that wasn't what I wanted to do. She actually left biotech and was like I'm going to come help you out. She actually left biotech and was like I'm going to come help you out. I'm going to be part of MFD to take some of those things that are weighing you down and I think I might be able to be a sounding board for me and create more focus. And since she started, we've our EBITDAs. We've added a I don't know 40% more to our EBITDA between 30 and 40% to our EBITDA, which is great. But also it's incredible to see someone that you care so much about, like your wife, be just so good at something Wow.
Speaker 2:So I don't get into that level of detail. When people ask me why I don't sell, I just say you know what? I'm not there yet. I feel like we have more to give. But say you know what? I'm not there yet. I feel like we have more to give, but the story there's more to unpack. I started this. It was never section. I mean, when I first started building the group I had this wild goal of if I could get to $10 million then that would be beyond my wildest dreams and what a cool thing. And I was 35 and we got there. Just to clarify 10 million in collections.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in revenue yeah, not valuation. No, not valuation. 10 millions in collection is well past 10 million in valuation, just in case anyone's wondering.
Speaker 2:That wasn't even something I was thinking about. I was just like I'm a dentist. When you sell, that means you're 60, 70 years old and you just you go from that chair to like a nursing home chair, and that was just what I thought Might smell different. Define what my goals are, and that was a big, big challenge for me and I think we're going to talk about this later. But redefining goals and making them clear and motivating enough is really the pull that you need to get past some of the challenges that happen in a group of 150 plus people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know, like I got some follow-up questions for you because I mean, this is I know people listening are like holy shit, like I totally feel for this, because this is so relatable to so many people and everybody has these goals. We have goals that we want to reach. I went through it with my practice sale. Now, with my practice sale, man, it's so much of it was fueled by burnout and I and I think in retrospect, I think that's the wrong reason to sell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think my problem was I felt like my problem was the practice. I just needed to get it out of my life. Yeah, and what I learned later on was it wasn't the practice, it was the way I was running the practice that I needed help. I needed to bring more leaders into it, and that's what made the practice really good for me and that's why I'm still there now. Now, you mentioned not knowing what you were going to do, had you did sell. Was the reason for staying that you just didn't have an alternative, or was it more so that you really liked it?
Speaker 2:That was part of the motivation, but I think it was more, that it's not just that I didn't have anything to do, it's also that this is so wrapped up in my identity of I don't even know who I am if it's not for my practice, for my group and that is what I'm trying to right now work through redefining of.
Speaker 2:Like it's not that I care less about the success of our group, I care as much as I ever have.
Speaker 2:It's that how do I care as deeply as I always have but also be someone who is more than just a leader of a dental group?
Speaker 2:And for so long those two identity, like the identity of Steve and that were so intertwined you couldn't see one without the other and I almost was like there were times where I would talk to my friends. I'm like I think I'm fricking boring, like if I'm not talking about the office, I don't even know if I know how to talk to my friends and uh, and I'm like that's not who I want to be, like. I want that to be a part of me, but I don't want that to be all of me and that I think that is, for me, part of my intention. Moving forward in this next phase is how do I be just as good a leader, care just as much, but also put that in its place where this is an important part of my life it is not the only part of my life and be just as effective, if not more effective, because I'm not being weighed down by some of the interpersonal crap or some of the things that aren't important to the success of our practice and our patients.
Speaker 1:When I'm thinking about, like when I sold and I mentioned, like the burnout, and I think a lot of people want to get to the sale because they're like I don't have balance, I don't see my family, I'm not doing good with my spouse. It's this goddamn practice. I need it out of my life. Now, when you were deciding all this stuff, like getting the investment bank and deciding before your wife came on board, did you feel like you had balance at that point? I mean, because that's what I'm wondering is, like when you're looking at selling it, was there a motivating factor that you were lacking balance in your life, or did you already have that?
Speaker 2:I don't think I've me personally. I don't think I've ever had balance, and that's not just for work, it's for like, that's just part of my wiring. That is unique to me is that if there's something that I care about, I'm going all in, whatever that is Like. Today, I chose to go all in on this golf shirt and there was no other thing I was going to wear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was the balance like at that point when you were seeking out a sale? Do you feel like you were possibly trying to seek balance by looking for a sale?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that was part of the search I was going for and I also think, if I'm being fully honest with myself, I was. I didn't know if I was good enough to keep this thing growing. I was seeing some of my own weaknesses show through in how my organization was operating and then to see someone like Lynn, like my wife, do it what I saw, it's so much better. It was like, oh okay, maybe there needs to be someone who has true business experience, has greater capital access, like, maybe it's not, maybe it's just that I've reached my ceiling and we talk about that in every other position. How do I level up, or can I level up or do I have the will to level up? Because I'm seeing all of these examples of how my inabilities at this point were the reason why we were having so much friction with continuing to add locations or grow our leaders.
Speaker 2:What I found was which was another challenge right now we have five or six layers of management in our group and each layer has to love their manager and if their manager loves their manager, who loves their manager, who loves their manager, who loves me, that person who's sitting chair side or answering the phones or doing insurance verification is going to love me.
Speaker 2:If, at any point, there's a breakdown in that person really trusting and loving their manager, the trust and love in me is also gone. There is the trust and love in me is also gone and that was super hard for me to understand of how do I get that person to see what my intention is, that we're so far away Like I maybe have had. Maybe I talked to this person two or three times a year and it's very surface level. How can I get them to care like I did when it was small, when I knew every single person and knew everything about them and was super connected? That was the challenge that I was working through of like, yes, I want to grow, yes, I want to stay connected. How do I do that and make sure that I'm the right?
Speaker 1:person to lead it. You know I want to piggyback off this, but then I do want to circle back to something else. But this trust and love, your manager thing. Now what is your role in that? I mean, I would imagine you've got to make sure to your direct reports you are treating them well, but how do you reach further to make sure that they are trusted and loved by their I don't know? I don't want to say subordinates, but I know what the proper, there's a proper word that's probably better than that.
Speaker 2:The people they serve yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:That's a better way of saying it, it's a really hard way to measure. What I would encourage everyone who has multiple layers of management in their organization, whether it be dentistry or not, is you can't only get one person's perspective. So if you get all of your information from just the person who reports to you and they say someone who reports to them is a jerk, you're not finding out enough. So I'm not saying in every situation, but you do need to fact check, even relationships, so that you can see it for yourself. And if there are, what I look for at this point is it's okay if there's one person that doesn't like their manager, perfectly fine. There are definitely people that don't like me. It's going to happen.
Speaker 2:Everyone can't love everybody, but my job at this point is to look for trends. So if this person has an issue, and then this person has an issue and then this person has an issue it can't always be everybody else. Now let me go and find out. Or if this person's new in a leadership position, we need to go down to that their people, they are leading and say how is this person doing? What's your perspective on this situation? Get as much information as you can, and it's not to get that new leader or that person who reports to me in trouble, it's actually to benefit them and if I go into any conversation that I'm having truly to understand what that other perspective is and it's to help and grow the person who is being led as well as the leader then I have enough information at that point to truly understand.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking about, like you've got this large organization. I'm thinking about most listeners. I mean, they don't have this, but they do have some level of management in their practice. A lot of people do have an office manager and I often hear that people say I really like my office manager, they're doing a really good job, they're my number one person, but I just don't think they handle things well with the team. And I think if that owner doc was to go and do one-on-ones with everyone on their team, they might find out that there are some things that their office manager is not doing or not doing well that they want to address. But at the same time, the struggle is how do they talk to the office manager about that without ratting out other people who said things behind their back? Yeah, how do they take all this negative information and turn it into a positive? Because I think that's what you're saying is you got to go around to people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a great question. First, what I find in dental offices is the meetings or the interpersonal stuff is the first thing that the dentist or the owner delegates and I'm putting that in quotes to their office manager, without any training or understanding of what that conversation or how that should go. So before even telling the office manager that they're doing a bad job, you got to show them what excellent is and if you think that you're doing a great job at that, bring them in to show them how you would do that. When I'm going into having these difficult conversations, initially they're going to be there with me and I'm going to lead it, and then they can mirror or mimic what I'm doing. So that's step one is we need to train them and they need to be able to see what is possible with these delicate and difficult conversations. They can't just be advocated. And then the second part of it is how do we understand how those conversations are happening and how they're happening in a way that the team members being heard, that they feel good but also that they're honest? And a couple of things with that. One is the results will speak for themselves.
Speaker 2:So most often when there is a difficult conversation, especially from an office manager to someone on their team. It's difficult because we're trying to correct the behavior People don't like in general, don't like to be told they're not doing a great job. So it may just be part of the difficulty of what it is to be an office manager is you need to be the person to tell people they're not doing a good job. So that's number one. Also, within those conversations, it's how do we have that conversation in a kind way and how do we start it and finish it in a way that the person who's receiving that information knows it's for their benefit. And that is where is on, ultimately on me as the owner, to ensure that that's happening.
Speaker 2:And I think that if we start having those conversations with I know it's important for you to be really good at your job what I'm seeing is this, this and this that are not aligning with what I know is so important to you. Can we talk that out together and then can we create a plan together so that next time we talk I know how to best support you in making sure that you're doing X, y and Z and not of what happens a lot in those conversations. And now we're talking about communication. I don't know how we got here, but no, this is good. What happens? A lot in those conversations? It's more of a I'm going to talk down to you and not bring you into the conversation, and a lot of the time it's because we're not asking the right questions. Almost every time, as the leader, we're not asking enough or the right questions Curiosity, and we're just telling something that isn't how we think it should look.
Speaker 1:That's so true man. That isn't how we think it should look. That's so true man. And I think a lot of practice owners, unfortunately, we avoid the conversation altogether and I think it's great that you're pointing that out, because there is it's so obvious that the people that are having a lot of success are the people that are willing to have these conversations.
Speaker 1:Now I want to circle back to something you said earlier, because people might listen to this and they say, yeah, sure, steve, you're a great communicator. Yeah, you talk to people really well. You've got all these skills. You're naturally gifted in all these ways. But I love that you mentioned you reached a certain point professionally where you felt like your weaknesses us can relate to that, and we reach it maybe at different levels and in different areas of our life. But I mean, I think when I sold my practice, it was amplifying a weakness, it was negativity in my life coming from the practice because of my lack of needing to level up my leadership to create other leaders. That was what I look back on it. You realize some of your weaknesses. I wonder if you could talk about those and just share, like what you did with that to get to the next level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if we've talked about this on one of our episodes, but I have a business coach. I've had a business coach for a long time and I've already shared this you can tell me to shut up and we recently, in the past six months, brought on a COO and my coach his name's Bob. Bob, was saying how's it going? How's it going with with uh, her name's Vanessa, how's it going with Vanessa? I was like it's going great. We're I think we're really Vanessa is is the COO in my organization and I think it's going great. I really feel like I'm getting some trust.
Speaker 2:I was with her this morning and I was just venting about one of the doctors and he just stopped being in my tracks. He goes what do you mean? You were venting? I was like, well, I was just. You know she was doing something stupid. The doctor was doing something stupid and I was just venting to Vanessa and he, bob's never had an opinion ever. He's the type of coach that will like, ask me questions and wants me to figure it out for myself, and he goes don't you ever effing do that again, like because of our relationship. It stopped Like literally, I took a blow. I was like, whoa, what was that? And he's like you, um, you want to be the CEO of this company? Right, that's who you are. You're the CEO of this company. I was like, well, I've been trying to make a joke. I'm like, yeah, that's what it says on my LinkedIn. And he's like, if you want to be the leader of this organization, you can never do that again, because now this person has a. That's what they're going to see when they go and talk to that doctor. And I was so taken back because it just took and opened my blind spot like nothing that's ever happened to me before, opened my blind spot like nothing that's ever happened to me before, and it was right. In that moment I was like, whoa, that part of me is what I thought got me to this point. It was Steve's genuine.
Speaker 2:If someone wants to know how I'm feeling, I'm going to tell them. And now, how do I have to be calculated? I have to think before I talk, like that's not who I am. No-transcript, I can't be that person. So how do I navigate this?
Speaker 2:So I think there's situations like that where you sit back and you're like, okay, is it more important for me to grow, or is it more important for me to be the person that I think people want to love. What does the organization need from me? And this is what I'm sitting in Currently. I think I'm doing a much better job. There are still days where I'm like I really need to. I need to. I feel myself stopping and thinking before I'm talking, which is so different for me. But that's what the organization needs. And if I'm going to level up and if I level up, that means the organization can too then we all grow and we all benefit.
Speaker 2:So I need to be able to push myself but also be willing to have conversations like this and uncover some of this crap.
Speaker 2:That doesn't feel good and what I learned from those conversations as someone who, just because I thought I was a good leader then, doesn't mean there isn't so much more for me to learn and grow. And I think, to get back to like why I didn't sell it was conversations like that of like, oh whoa, I'm not at the pinnacle, I don't know everything, I'm just scratching the surface. The more I know, the more I realize I don't know, and that actually can create some excitement for me of like, all right, what's the next level of this look like. How do I have the same mission, which is create the legacy that my dad wasn't able to create, this amazing experience for patients and my team members? But the mission is the same, but now the vision may be slightly different. But the mission's the same, but now the vision may be slightly different. And how do I go through that vision creation process again with an organization that's continuing to move at a really rapid rate?
Speaker 1:Well, you're taking something that some people might say you know you've reached maintenance standpoint and the way I relate to this is like, oh, we're growing, we're growing, we're growing. We expanded from five to 11. Growing in revenue, we maxed it out. Guess what? We're maxed out Nowhere else to go. But that's only looking from a financial perspective. You're taking you know you're saying my leadership, my personal stuff, and you are. You're bringing a new challenge into your life, which I really love. Now, like that's more, speaking on the internal weaknesses, and was there any situations, like you mentioned, that your weaknesses were amplified, that you brought on different people where maybe they didn't have that weakness, where you brought on somebody to support a weakness of yours?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that was part of the story of bringing on a COO. It was, like most, I consider myself an entrepreneur but that's like such a trendy and cool thing to say, but I chase shiny things. I'm not super organized and I know. I know that about myself, but I know that if you have 150 plus people, organization and focus are the two most important things. So, bringing on someone, having Lynn here part of this organization, having Vanessa having structure and organization and continued focus Lynn is your wife, lynn's my wife. Yeah, and that continued focus is the external pieces that will allow us to get to that next level.
Speaker 1:Now, as far as you talking, you mentioned redefining your goals. When you're looking at the investment base you're looking to sell, what you found is that you weren't ready for that, for multiple reasons, but one you mentioned redefining your goals. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Sure, I think when it's new, when it was new and exciting, it was for me. Me it was so easy and I talked to this about with my doctors. A lot of like nobody's born with a passion for dentistry, like that's it'd be weird, it would be weird, but I don't think anyone has a passion for anything. They're not born like that. I truly believe that people, they do something're good at it, they do more of it, and the more they do of it, the more they see how it impacts others and then they become passionate about it. That's the same thing with when you're truly setting these giant goals. It needs to be something that is pulling you, that you have to do, and that's, I think, for me in this.
Speaker 2:I don't know the Simon Sinek book like infinite game, like that's how I kind of think about. How do we set goals that pull us but also know the real goal is like we just got to keep this thing going and there's no way to truly measure it. So that's the balance of like all right, we do need finite goals, we do need things that help pull us and they need to be able to be measured, but also we have this pie in the sky thing of taking amazing care of people that you can't truly measure. And if it's, you have a 16% EBITDA or 19% EBITDA. Who gives a shit? And I think that that comes with experience too. So that is the process that I'm going through now. I don't know the answer. I still have so many more questions of what is going to be that thing that is exciting enough, motivating enough and that I am passionate about that. I'm excited to wake up at five in the morning to go do and I don't want to be doing anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I can relate in the sense that I can tell the listeners, when I sold my practice, when I joined a DSO, that passion for growth was pretty much gone and it's unfortunate. But it's most like my main focus at the office now is just to make it a great place for people. I don't care as much about the growth in the numbers because I'm not getting any direct benefit of it. But what I would say is that before I sold my practice, until about maybe two years ago, there was part of me that wanted to stop this podcast. And what was I doing?
Speaker 1:I was reaching out to people, we were interviewing them, we were coming up with some solo topics and stuff like that. But then what I did is I hired a coach and then I saw wow, there's a better way to create a hook. There's a better way. I still have a coach I meet with weekly that we go through questions. I think you should ask this question this way, there's a better way to create a story arc and when realizing there's so much art and so much more for me to learn about, just broadcasting in general has ignited that passion for podcasting. Yeah, that I remember back in having it for the dental office. Now you mentioned having a coach in your organization for your level of running six practices and most people would say, dude, you're there. What more could you possibly do but speak on how coaches have affected your growth through your life and how they keep you passionate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question, and I have had different coaches, and sometimes they're even coaches without even knowing. I would consider you, paul, someone who's coached me from afar. Thanks, before you even stalked me to be part of this thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I stalked you a really long time.
Speaker 2:I know about your food preferences, I know what you do in the middle of the night, but for me, I knew that it was always a challenge for me to do the things I said I was going to do, and what a coach has allowed me to do is throw out all the things out loud, sift through some maybe good ideas or not so good ideas, and then someone to report back to. And because practice ownership is or any business leader is so lonely, it's so important to have someone to hold you accountable to the things that you're going to do. It's the reason why every Fortune 100 company has a board of directors. It's not because they don't think the CEO is good, but they need someone to tell the CEO exactly to make sure he's doing what is in the best interest of what he said he was going to do. And I use that as my personal board of directors. I think a coach is just like that for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would like to tell listeners I mean, steve does coaching with Dental Practice Heroes. I'm on the podcast much more and sometimes people want to work with me but Steve is somebody who is well past where I have ever gotten to as far as management perspective and I think you heard it on this episode. You got to hear the ways that he's worked through coaches and how he could work with you to level up and make dentistry hopefully interesting again. Totally agree about the passion thing man. Nobody's like man. What are you really passionate about? I love teeth Just the way they're so shiny and little. You know. Like no one's going to be like.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I just it is amazing, Like when you go back. I think I even said in my dental school interview that I was passionate about dentistry.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I think we all did, you have no freaking clue. I wonder how they read those if they just go.
Speaker 2:They probably should. I would love to go back and be like all right, I want to actually interview, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now that I know it's like when they give.
Speaker 2:This is so dental, school-y, but like they give biomaterials in your first six weeks there. You have no clue what any of these things are. It's so back.
Speaker 1:It really is. It's beautiful. So I I got accepted dental school and then I declined it to be part of a band for a year.
Speaker 2:And we just did that. Oh, I knew that, I did know that. I didn't know you already got into dental school at that point.
Speaker 1:No, I was already in. I was already, I already accepted. I had to go and like, just remove it and they said I would have to apply the next year. Now, the next year, I decided to apply and I like almost self-sabotage myself. I wanted a reason to stay in this band and I did an actual interview and I remember they must've thought I was such an arrogant, fricking prick. But they were asking me a question about cheating and I'm like I don't care, I don't care about cheating, I'm not cheating, but it's not my problem. If I see somebody cheating, why should it be? Well, the academic code. I'm like not my problem. I'm not ruining somebody's life, I'm going to stay in my own lane.
Speaker 2:And now look at you. You got in flying colors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think partially. I didn't want to get in, I wanted to stay in. Oh, dude. Well, it's funny because we were sitting, me and my buddy Jake. We're sitting at the bar and it was me and him and we would drink probably three, four nights a week and he was a teacher in Champaign County. You know, he stayed where. We went to college and got a teaching job and I was like dude, I think I'm gonna go to dental school. I think making $15 an hour at Radio Shack's just not going. What do you mean? He's like dude. We used to have like 35, 40 friends here. It's me and you. I'm no longer a student, I'm not a grad student, I'm a fucking townie. I'm like a townie at a college town that's going to college bars and hanging out with college kids Not what I want to be. So it's dental school.
Speaker 1:And now look at you, yeah right. So, dude man, I love this interview, dude. I don't know if we're gonna break this up into two or not, but I think this is just so relatable for so many people, and I think this is stuff that really would have some listeners thinking about their why and the feelings that they're having as a practice owner and not looking to the exit as the solution.
Speaker 2:I guess that's a good question for you. I'm sure Is it what you thought it was going to be?
Speaker 1:No, not at all. When you sold Zero, absolutely not, absolutely not. And I listen to you now talk and I say I want what Steve has, I want this, I want to run practices without doing dentistry and that's what I'm migrating myself to. I'm going to be non-clinical within a year now, but I've realized through that the sale wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And if you have something else to do, maybe, but I have the podcast, I have the coaching, but I still love being in dentistry.
Speaker 2:I do too. I think people and I was again. This is again another conversation that I was just having with one of my doctors, and it's again sounds corny, but like, the more that I go around the sun and the more experience that I have, the goal is actually the journey, not this destination, and I know that sounds corny, but I could not believe it more than I do now. If you get to enjoy what you're doing and feel like you're adding, creating value and impact in the world, then you win. You win. And whether you have a dollar in the bank or a hundred million dollars in the bank, I was just as fricking happy when I had a dollar in the bank and I didn't even know. So we create these fictitious goals that maybe don't even really fill the bucket the way that we want them to, and I'm happy to expand on that. If anyone has any questions, they can. Clearly, I don't have a filter, which is probably what this whole thing is about, and I overshared all of my crap.
Speaker 1:It is so true, man. Well, hey, if you're thinking about hiring a coach for your practice or leveling up your practice so you can live a better life, be more engaged and reap more rewards that comes from dental practice ownership, Check out our website, dentalpracticeheroescom. You can work with Steve. He'll set up a free strategy call with you. So thanks so much, Steve. This was really absolutely fantastic. Man Appreciate it. Love you both. Thank you.
