Tips on Writing Historical Fiction with Author Susanne Dunlap

What does it take to bring history to life on the page? 

In this episode of Write it Scared, I’m sitting down with Susanne Dunlap—acclaimed historical fiction author, writing mentor, and all-around storytelling powerhouse.

Susanne’s journey is nothing short of inspiring. She went from earning a PhD in music history to publishing her first novel at 50, and now she has 14 novels to her name! 

We chat about the lessons she’s learned along the way—why curiosity, persistence, and patience are essential to writing, how to handle the mountains of research that come with historical fiction, and the delicate balance between fact and storytelling.

We also get into her transition from historical fiction to historical romance (because, let’s be real, who doesn’t love a little romance with their history?)

If you’ve ever wondered how to make history feel real without drowning in research—or if you just need a reminder that it’s never too late to start your writing career—this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss!

What You’ll Learn:

✅ The key to balancing research and storytelling in historical fiction
✅ Key mindset shifts to avoid overwhelm for historical fiction writers
✅ Tips for managing research without getting stuck in extraneous details
✅ The challenges (and joys!) of transitioning to historical romance

Episode Breakdown:
00:21 – Meet Susanne Dunlap!
00:43 – Her journey from academia to author
01:43 – Lessons from her publishing experience
02:14 – Why persistence matters in writing
02:38 – The power of storytelling in historical fiction
05:13 – Why historical fiction is so captivating
07:39 – Research: How much is too much?
18:18 – Balancing historical accuracy with compelling fiction
21:12 – Challenges in writing historical fiction & how to push through
25:12 – Moving into historical romance: what changes?
28:43 – Final thoughts & what Susanne is working on now

Guest Bio and Links

Susanne Dunlap is the award-winning author of over a dozen historical novels, as well as an Author Accelerator Certified Book Coach in fiction, nonfiction, and memoir. Her love of history began in academia with a PhD in music history from Yale. Her novel THE PORTRAITIST won first prize in its category in the 2022 Eric Hoffer Book Awards, and was a finalist in the CIBA Goethe Awards and the Foreword Indies Awards. THE ADORED ONE: A NOVEL OF LILLIAN LORRAINE AND FLORENZ ZIEGFELD, won first place in its category in the 2023 CIBA Goethe Awards for Late Historical Fiction. Today, she lives, coaches, and writes in beautiful Biddeford, Maine.

Website: https://susanne-dunlap.com

Instagram: https://instagram.com/susanne_dun

Transcript

Tips on Writing Historical Fiction with Author Susanne Dunlap

Susanne: [00:00:00] The history is there for you to plunder, and it's okay. It's okay to make things up. It's okay not to be an expert, because you can find out anything you want. You don't have to write what you know, you can write what you want to know, what you're interested in. I mean, it's all about curiosity and, and joy.

Welcome to the Write it Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formerly repressed creative soul turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write it Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories.

The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability and the often Subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative Holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to [00:01:00] help you do that Successfully.

Join me each week for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job that we do not do alone. Welcome to Write it Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in.

Hey, hey, writer. Welcome back to another episode of the Write It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser. Today we're talking all about historical fiction. So if you want to learn the ins and outs of writing and publishing historical fiction from an expert, then this episode is for you. Today I'm interviewing historical fiction author Suzanne Dunlap because she is the perfect person for this topic.

Suzanne is the award-winning author of over a dozen historical novels, as well as an Author Accelerator certified book coach in fiction, nonfiction, and memoir. Her love of history began in academia with a Ph. D. in music history from Yale. Her novel The Portraitist won first prize in its category in the 2022 Eric [00:02:00] Hoffer Book Awards.

And was a finalist in the CIBA Goeth Awards and the Forward Indy Awards. And her new Regency romance novel titled The Dressmaker's Secret Earl will be published in April of this year. Today, Suzanne lives, coaches, and writes in beautiful Bedford, Maine.

Susanne: Hi 

Stacy: Suzanne, thank 

you so much for 

coming on the podcast today. How are you? 

Susanne: I'm good. 

Thank you so much for inviting me to be here. 

I love talking to you. 

Stacy: Yeah, you are, you're a delight. So I already gave you a bio, but if you wouldn't mind, would you please share a little bit more about your journey to becoming a writer and a writing mentor with our listeners?

Susanne: Okay, well, as a writer of fiction, I was a late starter, but I've sort of been a writer all my life. I got interested in writing fiction when I finished my PhD in music history at Yale and couldn't get a job anywhere. And I had all these great stories from history that I just, you know, I just didn't want to keep them to [00:03:00] myself.

And so I just started tinkering and trying to write a historical novel. somehow managed to succeed at that. Those were different days. You know, I mean, my first book came out in 2005. So even though I'd been a writer all my life, I wrote advertising copy, I tinkered around trying to write things. I didn't actually settle down and really try to write a novel until I was, well, it was, I was 50 when that, book came out.

So I'm definitely a little bit of a late starter, but I figure that gave me time for all that life experience to wind its way through me. 

Stacy: Everything like that. Yeah. And today you're how many books into this career? 

Susanne: Okay. Well, I have 14 published novels. I've published six of them traditionally and several.

Hybrid, and a few self, and so I've been down all the publishing routes. Well, 

Stacy: since 2005, starting, you know, being [00:04:00] published at age 50, I don't think anybody can say that starting late has negatively impacted you. I think that's an inspiration to a lot of people. 

Susanne: Well, I hope so, because it's one of the things I honestly, sincerely believe, that if you have a dream, it's never too late to go after it.

Yeah. You know? 

Stacy: Yeah. All it takes is persistence and patience. Those are the things. 

Susanne: And humility, and actually sort of not expecting things to go really quickly, not, not, not wanting to keep learning, you know, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. 

Stacy: Yeah. I love, I follow Becca Syme. I don't know if you know who she is, but she's a great writing mentor.

And she says a lot of times when we first get into writing, we jump in and we are at a sprint and we want. The book published and we want and what we don't realize is this is a marathon and a very, very big piece of it, of the learning curve is that learning. 

Susanne: And I always tell this story that the person who became my agent.

When [00:05:00] I first submitted a manuscript to him when I was querying back in 2003, I think, or whatever, called me on the phone and basically told me that what I'd written wasn't a novel. And I'm like, okay, but he gave me all sorts of books to read and told me what and said, go away, work on it, resubmit it in six months, and we'll see.

But What he did was when I started reading, because I'd never taken a course, I didn't know, I didn't know how to write fiction. I had no idea what's about storytelling. I was a naturally good writer, you know, and that sort of thing, but I really didn't know. It's not just about being a good writer. It's about understanding storytelling, understanding the psychology, the structure, that whole sort of thing.

So as I started going into these resources that he recommended to me, I was going, Oh, that's what he meant. And then I worked on it. When I came back with [00:06:00] a revised manuscript, I guess he saw that it was improved enough to take me on, but I think I worked with him on it for another year, at least before he thought it was ready to submit.

And he did. And he got me a book contract in two Wow. That doesn't happen so often these days. Yeah, 

Stacy: But it, what an incredible story and just shows how much there is to, to learn. 

Susanne: Yes, absolutely. And you know, I think. The most important thing is really staying open to learning and to understanding that there's no done in terms of when, when you're a writer, you never get to the, okay, I'm finished.

I'm here. I'm, I'm, I'm the writer now. I can just stop and just write. No, I learn new things every day. Every time I read a book, a novel by someone else, I take workshops and Courses and do all that kind of stuff myself still because sometimes the way other people look at things [00:07:00] Will trigger something and you go.

Oh, okay. 

Stacy: I know totally agree. I mean profession where there's no finish line, so we're gonna talk about Historical fiction because this is what you write and this is what you're extremely good at helping other writers their heads and their hearts around. So what draws you to work and write in this genre?

Susanne: I'm kind of a historian at heart and, you know, my degree was in a branch of history and I love doing the research. I mean, what I loved about my graduate. work is that you're doing what you eventually want to do. I was, had been my privilege to go and dig into a state libraries in Vienna and Berlin and in Prague and places like that.

And, and I love doing it. So that was what initially drew me to it. And then the other thing that drew me to it was thinking [00:08:00] about women's lives. in the past and how different or how similar they are to today and looking for the universal things in that and pulling out the stories. I guess it was a combination of my natural love of history of just about any kind and my curiosity about Everyday lives or whatever, or extraordinary lives of especially women in the past.

Stacy: Do you find that that is pretty true of writers who gravitate towards historical fiction? Like, , they have a natural propensity or a natural draw. Their curiosity drives them there. 

Susanne: I would say it's not just true of, but it's kind of a necessity. You have to like doing the research because you can't write a historical novel without doing the research, without really getting into your, to the period and, and digging and digging.

The biggest thing that [00:09:00] can be a problem is digging too much and going too far into things that aren't going to really help your story. Because you're so fascinated, you just keep going down these rabbit holes and finding cool things out and, you know, and it's fun. But if you want to get a historical novel written, you have to find a way to wrangle that and focus it on.

The story you're actually trying to write. 

Stacy: Ooh, we'll dig into that a little bit more, is when is too much, too much, and when is it not enough, as far as research goes. Excellent. So let's talk about what a writer needs to be thinking about when they're starting a historical fiction project. Let's say that this is their very first.

So what are the components they need to think about, and how would you suggest they go about organizing those components? 

Susanne: Well, first you have to decide what period or what period setting, whatever, and you have to really love that period setting, whatever, because you're going to be living in it for a long time.

[00:10:00] And also the availability and accessibility of research materials for you. Nowadays, so much is available online. And I buy research books all the time. There's some, you know, for my recent one, I had this, the Italian opera in Contemporary Ballet in London, 1789 to 1820, and it had just, I mean, this is my passion.

I love doing this. And so it gave me stuff that just wasn't available online. So those would be two things. The third thing is that you have to figure out which part of that, very small part of that history period, whatever that you're interested in, is going to make your story. Because it's not enough to say, ooh, there's this interesting person.

I want to tell people about their life. You have to actually figure out if there's a story in their life, and the story has to have an arc and something, and they have to change by the end of it. It's fiction [00:11:00] first. Fiction is the noun, historical is the modifier. I love that. So, you know, it's, I never forget when I was first in this world and an aspiring author said, Oh, I never put anything, any words into my historical characters mouths that they didn't actually say.

And I went, Oh my God. How can you do that? The thing is, as soon as you have them in a conversation, you're inventing things. You know, because there's no way of knowing unless you're quoting a letter or something like that. The other thing to think about is to be aware of what you're willing to change, what you're willing to imagine in the history.

And that goes into choosing your protagonist, which is one of my big things, which is, are you going to have a historical protagonist, do a biographical thing, or are you going to invent a protagonist? I've done both, and it depends on. With who you pick [00:12:00] as a historical person, how easy or difficult it is to research or to find the arc or find that the piece that's gonna make the story you want to tell.

And the story you want to tell isn't just about the history. It's gotta make a bigger point. It's gotta have a, the more universal. thing. And it can be a love story. It can be whatever. It doesn't have to be an intensely important, big, major issue, but it has to be resonant to a modern reader as well. 

Stacy: Yeah.

 The other part of it that fascinates me is what a writer must have to do to get in the headspace of a person from a different era with different cultural and socio economic norms.

Susanne: That's where you have to do research around what you're writing, because you need to, you know, read letters, say, to get a sense of how people communicated with each other. It's difficult, but it's easy to get it because [00:13:00] they're still people like us. They're still have the same passions, the same whatever.

They just had a different. universe or situation in which to live those passions through. So I personally feel like I've never had trouble doing that, really getting into the head of a historical character. And that may be because I had enough background knowledge about the period or whatever, or had done my research in such a way that I felt I could really be I 

Stacy: think that all that shows just how important the research piece of this is.

And so we were talking about the things that a writer needs to think about. The time period. Where and when is this going to take place? And why are they willing? To sit in that space for an extended period of time, and then will they be drawing from a completely fictional protagonist, or will they be drawing from real life inspiration, or melding those two things together?[00:14:00] 

Susanne: Oh yes, the degree to which you do that, and that's something to decide as well. I have many fictional protagonists in settings where they interact with a lot of real history, where they're interacting with real historical characters, but they're not the protagonist. And, you know, how close or far away from your protagonist are those real historical characters will actually determine the kind of research you have to do.

Stacy: That's a really great point. It's not just enough. To be interested in this person's life story and telling it or be interested in this period of time and showcasing it, you have to be in there for a very specific moment, not just a moment, but arc of time that creates a change that will be universal in some way.

To a reader where they can pick it up and they can experience this and step back and have a takeaway that speaks about the 

Susanne: human experience. You have to understand [00:15:00] how stories work. Something's going to have to change. There's going to, you're going to have to put your character, your protagonist through hell and back again.

It can't all be going well for them. And, and so thinking in those terms. As you look at your history, your protagonist you've made, what are they going to do? And also, what question are you going to raise in the reader at the beginning that's going to make them want to, want to have it answered enough to keep them dragging them through the story?

Yes. 

Stacy: And that is a beautiful thing to point out . You have to have your reader's curiosity. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Anne, you told me an interesting fact that I did not know before we started recording. I assumed that historical fiction was anything written beyond 50 years in the past, and that is not the case?

Susanne: Yeah. Now they say 25 years, and I'm not sure why they did that, but I mean, what that used to be, what I used to call that in my early days of writing, [00:16:00] anything between 25 and 50 was what I would call nostalgia fiction. I've never even heard of that term before. Well, and it was only, it wasn't anything that was a marketing term.

It was just something used among, you know, people who wrote that sort of stuff. 

Stacy: Okay, let's dig into talking about research. This is your wheelhouse. So, what tips could you give on starting with research, avoiding getting stuck, knowing how much is too much, and when you don't have enough? 

Susanne: The very first thing that you can do, if you know nothing about a period or about a person or whatever, go to Wikipedia.

And I'll tell you why, because if it's a good article, it will have footnotes and resources. And that's where you're going to find the deeper sources that you need to look at. Also, I found that academics are very happy to share what they know with people as well. And depending on what you're [00:17:00] doing or if you, you can reach out to someone who's an expert in that period or who's taught about the figure that you're going to, even if you're not using that figure as your protagonist, but it's going to feature in your story.

Often they'll be willing to talk to you, share things with you, whatever. And if they're not, they'll just say no, but, but generally are pretty generous. And you get to know what you can trust and what you can't trust. Always double check. If there's some outlandish bit of information, search in other places for it.

Especially with really famous people. There's a lot of apocryphal stuff out there, but it doesn't mean you can't use it if you need it for your story. Right. Because 

Stacy: remember, we are talking 

Susanne: fiction. We are talking fiction. Exactly. Exactly. 

Stacy: And readers don't want real life. 

Susanne: They don't want real life. I know another wonderful writer who wants to write a historical novel based in a piece of [00:18:00] her family's history, but every time I talk to her about it, she's like, what if I get it wrong?

What if this isn't true? What if? And, and it's like, first of all, there are no history police. Second of all, your author's note, your historical note, is your best friend. It's wonderful because you have, you have to create this story that has to work as a story, which means you're going to change a few things.

Right? And I love reading those historical notes because I want to know what in this really happened and what did they make up? What did, what did they have to change? Whatever. And so that's where you get to say all that stuff. 

Stacy: That's a good tip. So you can kind of breathe a little easier then. What do you think of using AI as a collaborative research tool?

Susanne: I'm all for it, but you do have to double check things that seem a little bit suspicious. But I think that it's gotten to the point now where, I mean, what I, what it's useful for is, for me, is like finding lists of things or asking very [00:19:00] specific questions. Things that if you ask them in a search engine, you don't, you get a whole list of results and you don't know which one is actually going to, because they're all the ones that are sponsored up at the top, you don't know which one is going to actually give you the information you want.

So you can ask at GPT or Cloud AI, and they'll usually say, when I have asked something really specific. They say, and they don't know, they'll say, that's too specific for me, you're going to have to go here. They'll give you recommendations of where else to look for that information. Oh, interesting. You know, yeah, yeah.

So, it won't give you the detail you need necessarily, but it can point you in the right direction. 

Stacy: Okay, so I think most historical fiction writers who are listening to this are like, Okay, so when do I know when it's time to write my story? How do I know if I have enough? And when is it too much? When is my research becoming a problem?

Susanne: It's becoming a problem if it stops you from getting to the page, first of all. Okay? [00:20:00] If you're just doing research because you're afraid to start writing the book, that, that's not a good thing. 

Stacy: But how do you know? That's the trick. 

Susanne: Yeah, I don't think you do know. I think what it is, is that you, I think you can't start writing too early.

Because I think you figure out where, as you start writing, You realize, Oh, I don't know that. Oh, oh, I need to know that. And so as you're writing, you're feeling what you need to research as well. And, and depending on how much you're into it, and I do this when I'm really on a roll in writing and I realize I've gotten to something I don't know, I just stick in a TK, you know, and then I can search it.

Then I go and look for that information. Sometimes it changes what I had, what I wrote because I realized something was not possible because I did have the wrong information or whatever. But I think it's more possible to get sucked into the research and do too much than it is to not do enough. Because as soon as you start writing, if you're thinking in those terms, as soon as you start writing [00:21:00] your story, you're going to bump into things that you have to research.

Does that make sense? I know it sounds like it's, It just sounds like 

Stacy: it's a very organic 

Susanne: process, 

Stacy: like that, uh, you know, it's not like, I'm sure that there are writers that sit down and go, okay, I'm going to research everything I want to know for the first, for three months. And actually I know writers that do this.

They sit down and they, they take three months. To go down every rabbit trail, to go down every squirrel hole, and then they sit down and they start to write. And I know other writers who do it differently, and they have a more research as I go process. So I'm sure it just depends. But what are red flags that you're in trouble with?

Susanne: In terms of researching too much, you mean? Yeah. Or, I would say that you just keep writing. Getting to the, to the starting point. Getting to the page. To the page. You know, I think that that's the red flag, [00:22:00] or you start being anxious about not knowing enough. You have to at some point just to say, I know enough to get started.

I don't know it all, but I know enough to get started. And even if you take three months, you're not going to know everything at the end of three months. Once you start writing, other things are going to come up, you know. But as you say, it's a case of what works for you. If you really want to write a historical novel, you have to put the words on the page.

Stacy: And same is true of any other genre too. So, from the perspective of a book coach, are there any other struggles that a writer may have working in this genre that we haven't already touched on? 

Susanne: I think it has a great potential for burnout. Because you're having to keep all these balls in the air and you're having to do the research and everything like that.

It can be discouraging for some people to, they start out all sort of gung ho, oh I'm going to write this, and then they get bogged down when they [00:23:00] realize the extent of the job they're trying to do. And I can't immediately think of an easy way to get through that except. the normal ways, which is breaking it down into smaller chunks and doing all that sort of thing.

But I think because of the multi layered task of writing historical fiction, that can happen. That said, if I set about to write a fantasy novel, that would happen to me. Because I, I could, you know, I would just become overwhelmed with the, the kind of world building, although you have to do world building in historical fiction too.

I mean, it's definitely. So, yeah, I think that that's the one we have. I talked about the fact that you have to find the arc, finding that arc is can be really hard, getting lost, and biggest temptation that you have to avoid is info dumping. You've spent all this time researching this stuff, and you [00:24:00] find these absolutely amazing facts, and you want your reader to know them.

But unless they're really integral to your story, and they matter, to your protagonist and your story, cut them out because they're not going to help. They're not going to help you. 

Stacy: Do you suggest that you try to wrangle that in your first draft or do you leave that as a 

Susanne: I think it depends on the writer and how you approach your first draft.

I always end up with info dumps in my first draft, you know, because it's hard to avoid and you don't always realize that you've done it until you go back and look at it again and you They don't need to know that, you know, but I would say that's, that's one of the biggest hazards because if you love the history and you've spent all this time doing the research.

You have to ask yourself, my exercise that I put in my course is, take everything, take all of that stuff out [00:25:00] and read it through without it. If something doesn't make sense because you don't have some of that information, put a tiny bit back in. And keep doing that until you get to the right point where it makes sense to the reader without.

Gumming up the prose because you've dumped all this information. I bet 

Stacy: that is really a hard exercise. It is. I bet it is. Yes. Like squeezing someone's heart. Yeah. And also this is where editors play in too. 

Susanne: Oh, absolutely. 

Stacy: Editors. Absolutely. Beta readers. And that would be a good thing to be asking them, you know, a beta reader.

Yeah. Where did you lose interest? Where did you stop reading? Where did it bog down for you? 

Susanne: Yes. Yes. I, my novel, The Portraitist, I had this chapter that I loved, and it was about the outdoor Exhibition de la Jeunesse, where my portraitist who is a famous as a teacher of art for with her women students takes them to this because they can [00:26:00] just go you can just go and set up your thing and you can be in the exhibition and it's only every two years and it's only if the weather holds you know because it's outdoors and it's a fabulous scene and I just had all this thing and I realized.

It just adds nothing to the story. It does not move the plot along. It does not deepen my character. I had to cut the entire chapter out. But you know what you can do though, and I never did, it's, I'm terrible, I'm, I mean, terrible at sort of promoting my own books, but things like that you can take and Share them with readers as outtakes.

Stacy: Okay, so we're going to transition a little bit out of craft here and talk more about your specific writing process for just a moment. And I understand that you have changed sub genres in historical fiction. Can you share with our listeners a little bit more about that experience? 

Susanne: Okay, all of my published books are, what, just historical fiction, regular historical fiction.

A couple of them are on the [00:27:00] biographical side, and I have four that are YA, which I suppose it's kind of a sub genre of historical fiction. And I had started actually a multiple timeline manuscript that I'm really, it's still there, I'm going to finish it someday, but I was getting bogged down in it. and not looking forward to getting to work on it and that sort of thing.

And I started listening to Georgette Heyer's historical romances, just as a way to get my mind off of things. And I fell madly, madly in love with them. I listened to every single one. I had Georgette Hare in my ear all the time. Okay. And they've only just started being made into, uh, audiobooks in like 2021.

I just loved being in that world. And I thought I'm going to write, I'm going to write. Write my own because I you know, I've listened to her read all of hers and there aren't any more and and the modern ones There's some good ones, but a lot of them aren't quite what I'm looking for. You know, so I started writing [00:28:00] and What that did for me personally it was just it was pure joy I just 

Stacy: oracle romance 

Susanne: romances.

It was pure joy I got to the page and it just poured out of me in a way nothing has for a really long time and That's It's really important, too. And you having that feeling of loving what you're doing. And the thing about historical romance is that it's romance first. You have to adhere to all the romance things that romance needs to do.

You know, you have a trope, you have your beats, you have the meet cute, you have the happy ever after, all that sort of thing. And it's a challenge. It's a really big challenge. Because if you think about it, You know from the beginning how this is going to end, this book, you know, so it's not about that, you know they're going to get together.

So the skill is in [00:29:00] the how, making, yeah, the how, making people, making 

Stacy: the how different, 

Susanne: yes, making the how different, really bringing that interiority in and, you know, the desire on the page, that sort of thing, and I don't write steamy, but, you know, Oh, it doesn't have to be steamy to be 

Stacy: intimate. 

Susanne: Yes, exactly.

In any shape 

Stacy: or form. 

Susanne: Exactly, but a lot of them are, so, 

Stacy: not mine. I love that, and, and that's just such a good point, you know, talking about how sometimes writers get discouraged in, in all, I don't think it matters what genre you're in, but I can definitely see it. You know, you have so many balls to juggle in a historical fiction, you're holding so much at one time and getting discouraged that maybe it's okay to, to pick up something that gives you joy and then go back and forth.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that it is given that to you. I can tell listeners won't be able to see your face, [00:30:00] but you're just lit up talking about it. That's so exciting. It's because it's just fun. That's wonderful. Well, we're going to wrap up. I just wanted to ask you a few final questions. One. A big part of the podcast is dedicated to exposing how difficult writing a novel can truly be, not only from the intellectual standpoint, but from the emotional standpoint.

It can be really hard. And I just wondered if you would share a time looking back on your own writing life, where you experienced something that was difficult, a hard time, and if you would be willing to share it and how you were able to walk through it. Sure. 

Susanne: Well, I had I had my first novel published by Touchstone Books of Simon and Schuster, and they had the option on the second one.

And I had given them a very sketchy kind of outline as to what that novel would be. And they say, okay, write that one. We want that one. So I set [00:31:00] about trying to write it, and I just, I couldn't. It just didn't work. It didn't, it didn't wanna come together. I had a, I knew vaguely what I wanted it to be. It was something that I'm deeply immersed in.

It was called Lists Kiss, and it was all about the romance, piano and Chopin list, and Marie Dgu and all this kind of stuff. And I, it was stuff I really, really was interested in, but I couldn't make it work. And I, it was six weeks before , my book was. Do my manuscript was due to my editor at the publisher and my agent said, no, it's not there.

It's not working. And I was like, I just burst into tears. I'm like, what am I going to do, you know, and I sat there being the kind of person I am. I was like, Let it go. Just think. And I had been trying and trying to write what I thought they wanted me to write. And I just stepped back from that and did a [00:32:00] sort of, what if I did this?

And I had been locked into the date when a certain composition by Chopin was available, which would have been, um, available to my pianist heroine. I just said, screw that. And I said it a year earlier so that it was during the cholera epidemic in Paris. which completely changed the stakes and made the story fall into place in a way it never could have in its original form.

And I think I actually made my deadline. Wow. But I will never do that again. That to me was, that was torture. Having this, thing like I have to write this book about X and not feeling free to, to not do that or change it or whatever. And it was just, it was, [00:33:00] it was intense and really awful. How, how have 

Stacy: you avoided that situation moving forward? 

Susanne: I've been less specific about what it is I was going to write, so that I didn't get locked into like a plot or a storyline or something. It was just like, I'm going to write about Anastasia as a teenager. Got it. Then, you know, that left it wide open. So, that was it. And this can happen to you even if you don't have a publishing contract, even if you, you have this idea that you're going to write this book, and this is what it's going to be like, and you're going to do this, and you can easily discover or figure out that it's not going to work the way you imagined it, right?

And, That's when you have to just step back, get off the page, and just think about it, and think, be willing to throw everything away, or throw big chunks of it away, and figure out how [00:34:00] you can move forward in a way that's going to feel good, as opposed to just trying to beat down the doors of the story that you thought you wanted to write.

Stacy: That's really brave. It takes humility and bravery. All wrapped into one to do that. And sometimes that happens when you've, I have worked with writers who are, you know, they've, if they have outlined, they have done a bunch of work and. There comes a moment when they know it's right to move away from it.

That's really hard. That is really really 

Susanne: hard And it but it needn't be a case of abandoning it It could be a case of just taking a break or it could be a case of just Shifting it to have a slightly different focus or something like that. You know, yeah as I did in the case of lists kiss 

Stacy: Yeah. Did you change the title?

Susanne: No, it was always going to be that title. It was always going to [00:35:00] happen in it. That, that central thing had to happen. But it was completely different. But not 

Stacy: when. It didn't have to happen at a specific, that specific moment. Right on. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Well, would you please tell us what you're currently working on in your writing life and , on the book coaching side? 

Susanne: Okay, well, I'm, I'm all in for historical romance right now. And I just finished my second manuscript in a series of three.

And I'm avoiding starting the third one because I'm still deeply emotionally in the second one. So that's what I'm working on. And it's with my, it's with my book coach for a read. It's been beta read and stuff. So there's that. In book coaching, I have a great big course about to be launched into the world.

I don't know exactly when this is going to be aired, but on Valentine's Day, I'm launching my own [00:36:00] historical romance course, The Heart of Historical Romance. And it's Has, will have everything I've learned, and I hope will convey the delight and joy that I have found in this, in this whole process, because there's a lot of instructive things out there about writing romance, for sure.

You know, there's Romancing the Beat by Gwen Hayes, which is very useful and it, you know, it has the basic structural things that most romances are based on. As with historical fiction, there are some considerations in historical romance. When I look at those contemporary things, I think, no, I can't, no, my characters can't do that.

No, there's no way that could happen, you know? So with an eye to combining it with history, with what, say, your heroine could do at the time and what would be considered beyond the pale and that kind of thing, what, depending on the period you're working in. But so, yes, that's my big thing that I'm [00:37:00] That I'm doing right now.

Stacy: I can tell you're so excited about it. I can just see it. So I can't wait for it. That'll be wonderful. And perfect time around Valentine's Day. I will make sure that I include a link to that as well as all of your other resources into the show notes. And where can listeners find you? 

Susanne: Well, I'm on Instagram at Suzanne underscore Dunlap and that's Suzanne with an S and Dunlap with an A.

Bye. Bye. And I'm also on Facebook, but I tend to stay more on Instagram and my website is https://susanne-dunlap.com/

So that's really the best places to find me online. 

Stacy: Well thank you for being such a wonderful guest and for coming on and sharing your expertise and your passion. You can just see it. Like, love this.

And anybody who is out there who is writing historical fiction and needs help, they should come your way. 

Susanne: It truly is my passion, I have to say. So, and thank you so much for giving [00:38:00] me the opportunity to talk about it.

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