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The Write It Scared Podcast
A podcast to help fiction writers work through self-doubt and learn the craft of writing a novel.
The Write It Scared Podcast
Writing Rom-Coms and Outsmarting Your Inner Critic with Regency Romance Author Kate Archer
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Working on a rom-com?
This conversation with bestselling author Kate Archer is packed with craft insights and the best mindset support!
We get into what makes humor land, how to keep your characters authentic, and how to keep conflict fresh in a genre built on familiar beats.
Kate also shares how she built her writing life, the routines that keep her grounded, and the strategies she uses to push past fear, resistance, and the inner critic.
It’s an honest, encouraging look at the realities of writing comedy, staying consistent, and showing up for your creativity.
Timestamps:
01:23 Meet Kate Archer
03:58 Kate’s writing journey
07:32 Why Regency romcoms resonate
12:27 Crafting humor that feels true
22:23 Writing from the servant’s perspective
22:43 Revision + learning through mistakes
25:04 The power of a writing schedule
27:43 Overcoming psychological blocks
33:46 The struggle + joy of writing
36:14 Advice for aspiring writers
41:14 Final thoughts + where to find Kate
Links:
Visit Kate at: https://www.facebook.com/ and https://katearcher.weebly.com/ or get in touch at katearcherauthor@yahoo.com. Check out Kate's books here
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I think one of the things that happens is the more books you write, the more familiar with your own problems you get. So they're easier to avoid. So there's less writing yourself into a corner and things like that. Each one teaches you something, you know, another little trick, and you just get better at how you do it, however that is.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the Write It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formally repressed creative soul, turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories. The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully. Join me each week for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job that we do not do alone. Welcome to Red It's Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hey writer, welcome back to the Red It Scared Podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, and today is a guest episode. And we are talking about all things rom-com with Regency romance author Kate Archer, whose books, many books, by the way, are as hilarious as they are heartfelt. We talk about what really makes romantic comedy work, that delicate balance between humor and heart. And Kate shares why she believes the best comedy stems from character authenticity and gives us some tips on how to keep the conflict in these types of stories fresh, as well as ways for writers to level up in their craft. We also talked about how to find a writing routine that works for you and outsmarting the inner critic by lowering the bar so that you can actually start to get words on the page. So if you tend to struggle with perfectionism and self-doubt tends to keep you stuck and you wonder if your story's funny enough or good enough, this conversation is definitely going to add a line or two to your permission slip to help you keep going and keep learning and most importantly, keep writing. But before I give you Kate's bio, I wanted to give you a quick reminder that I am now accepting inquiries for Drafted Scared. This is my small group book coaching experience that is designed to help you go from overwhelming second guessing to consistent progress in your novel. So if you're circling a story idea, struggling to make progress in your draft, or you're just feeling stuck somewhere in the middle, you're not alone, and you don't have to figure it out by yourself. DraftItscared is a supportive and high-touch space for fiction writers. You'll get accountability and structure and the kind of story development support that actually keeps you writing. Details to know, the cohort will begin in mid-January. There's only six writers per group. And if you want to learn more, please go to writeitscared.co forward slash draftitscared to learn more and apply. And I will put the link in the show notes for that. Okay, here is Kate's bio. Kate Archer is the best-selling author of over 30 Regency romances, including the series The League of Meddling Butlers, a series of senseless complications, The Duke's Pact, a very fine muddle, and a series of worthy young ladies. Kate's books feature lighthearted but twisty plots and plenty of opinions coming from the household staff. Hello, Kate. Welcome to the Write It Scared Podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I'm great. I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we get to talk about your books. You write Regency era rom-coms. I'm excited to dig into this topic with you today. But before we go there, why don't you just share with our listeners a bit more about how you came to writing and go from there?
SPEAKER_01So, like most of my career, it it was sort of a winding path. And I remember being in my 20s, working in New York, and I had a friend that was also interested in writing. And we used to talk about it all the time. And I remember even deciding, like on a Saturday, that's it, I'm starting my book. And I never got anywhere with it. And so I it just sort of drifted out of my focus. And then years later, I was living in the Caribbean and I was running this tiny little restaurant, and it was the slow season. So I usually gave myself a project. Like one season I decided I was gonna teach myself how to like invent something. I'd never invented anything, but anyway, you never know how the projects are gonna go. So, and then I, you know, I had a young niece and nephew, and I thought, you know, they're in the States, I don't see them. I should write them a story. And I did. And it just went from there. And I think what happened was when I was in New York, I was setting the bar really high. I was thinking, okay, that's it. I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna write a best seller. But when I lowered the bar and thought, you know what, I'm just gonna write a story for my niece and nephew, maybe it felt safer, maybe it felt something, I don't know, but it seemed a lot easier to do. And so I did that. And then, like, you know, I think a lot of writers, I finished that book. It was longer than I thought it would be, it was not a picture book, it was a novel. And I thought, you know, this is a work of genius. I am going to sell this immediately. And I did not. And now I know why. But at the moment, you know, I I did think, okay, like we're on our way here. But so it didn't sell, but at least it got me going. And I kind of thought, all right, well, if I can do it once, I can do it again. And I've gotten a lot of feedback on the first one and what the problems might be, so I can fix those, you know, and then I just kept going with it. And started in Kid Lit and then moved to the adult historical romance market.
SPEAKER_02That's amazing. So from the Caribbean at a restaurant, after having said you were gonna write a bestseller, then you decided to write a a story for your niece and your nephew. And from that, finishing that and just going through the process, now you have how many books out in the world?
SPEAKER_01Oh, too many.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for sharing that. And I think that's such a valuable piece of wisdom. Lowering the bar to remember to lower the bar. And yeah, and following a joy, too, because it wasn't it wasn't about it, it was about that. And it was about giving a gift to someone. That's such a cool, inspiring story.
SPEAKER_01Well, two two very unsophisticated some ones, right? We're only like four and six. I could have gotten away with a lot, you know. So yeah, the bar was the bar was very low there.
SPEAKER_02I love it. I love that. Okay. So now, like you said, you have 24 Regency romances out in the world, but these are rom coms, right? You write Regency era rom coms. So why don't you tell us about what draws you to write these books, these particular stories, what interests you about it, why do you like it?
SPEAKER_01I love the time period, but I also love comedy a lot. A lot, a lot. All my kids' books were comedy. And I just can't really stop myself anyway from things devolving into comedy. So there's a lot of romance writers in the historical space who write a lot of angst, a lot of drama, and that's fantastic, but I cannot do it. I just can't do it. And I also think that comedy is very suited to historical romance and romance in general. There is something faintly ridiculous about romance, so it does slide into comedy pretty easily. And yeah, it just I like to make myself laugh. I I don't understand writers who can write like a really dark story because you have to live in that for a long time. Like, and I don't want to be at my typewriter crying, like I don't, I don't want to do it. So I I write on the lighter side of things, the fun side.
SPEAKER_02I am one of those writers who writes the dark and the gritty. But I I am, but to balance it, I have to have my feet over in something else. I read a lot of romance while I'm while I'm writing like the dark stuff. So I totally get what you're saying. And I'm so glad that those type of books are out there for us to get some relief because I certainly need it.
SPEAKER_01So you know, Georgette Heyer was my model, really. I mean, I just think she's the best. And that's the side of uh romance that she always focused on. You know, it never really gets too dark in Ohio romance.
SPEAKER_02So having said that, what are some of the the latest that have come out for you?
SPEAKER_01The two books that came out this month are from two different series. One is The League of Meddling Butlers, and that is six butlers who all live on the same square, and they've known each other forever, and they're really impressed with themselves, for one thing. And they started small. They they like to have control and feel important. So they started really small with, you know, trying to influence their lord to do this thing this way. But when the series opens, they've gone way past that. Now they consider themselves matchmakers to the young lords and ladies in their houses, which is a really nice idea if they were good at it, which they are not. So they end up complicating everything, but remain very impressed with themselves. I just love these six guys. So each book is about a different butler trying to make a match and making a mess of it. So that's one. And the other series is called The Series of Senseless Complications, and that is a family story. So there are seven daughters and a very erotic and eccentric and troublemaking Duke. And he's just trying to get these girls out of the house as best as possible. He doesn't really care. So he says he actually loves them, but he puts on this big show of like, just take them. I don't care. And, you know, they all have their interesting personalities. They've all grown up together in the Yorkshire Dales, very isolated. They only managed to have a governess for one year before she left. She just left a note that said goodbye, and they never saw her again, and they never bothered to hire another one. So they're all kind of self-taught, not really into the rules. So obviously that creates a lot of trouble. And then there is a housekeeper. There is no butler in this one, because every time a butler has been hired in that house, the housekeeper has driven them out. So that is just she wants to rule the roost and she does. And she's very protective of the girls. And if she even senses that a gentleman is giving one of her girls trouble, she's gonna take steps. She takes a lot of steps. She will disable a carriage, she will send a terrible letter, she will get whatever she thinks needs to be done for revenge.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Wow. These sound like such fun books. And I absolutely love the title, A League of Meddling Butlers. That's that that is awesome. So with rom-coms, I mean, I think you know, you have the romance, you have the humor. What makes them good? Like what draws readers to them? What do you what do you need? What do you need to make sure you incorporate into a romantic comedy that will make it tick?
SPEAKER_01Well, there has to be enough romance for one thing. But on the comedy side, I think people have different ways of thinking about comedy in their own mind. I did my critical thesis on comedy. So I looked at all the theories that have ever been, including Freud's, which if you ever have time to read it, it's hilarious because that guy totally peter panned himself in that moment. He is not funny and he doesn't understand humor, but he had a theory. So I looked at all of these and then pulled out the pieces that I thought made the most sense and kind of recombined them. But I think the essence of it is that comedy has to live in the viewpoint and history of the character. And if it's just a random event, it's not it's kind of the thing where the reader reads it and thinks, oh, that should oh, oh, that's funny, I guess, but doesn't really laugh because it's not intrinsic to who the character is and what their motivations are and how they view the world. And then the funniest part of it can be the watcher, not the person who's doing something, but the person who's watching it. So with the meddling butlers, that's just an endless opportunity because they're so stiff, they're so straight-laced, they're fanning themselves over everything, you know. So that's really where the humor comes in. But it has to go really deep. It just can't be my heroine just fell out of a carriage for no reason. It's just not, it's not funny. I think like my characters are are rarely trying to be funny. So when they're doing something that is shocking to someone else, it's deeply in their worldview. So what they're doing makes sense to them. It's just part of their worldview. It just doesn't make sense to anybody else. And so it ends up being kind of a triangle. So you have the person doing the strange thing, you have the reader who understands the norm associated with whatever this thing is, and then the watcher. And so all three of those come together, but it has to be deep-seated. There has got to be a reason. It can't be random.
SPEAKER_02Got it. How do you keep the conflict fresh in these type of stories? A lot of rom coms revolve around misunderstandings. So how do you keep it from being too simplistic and or being contrived almost?
SPEAKER_01Well, if the misunderstanding is funny, that's usually good. But I think the misunderstanding has to be carefully set up. So in the book I'm reading now, which is one of the Medling Butler's books, the heroine comes to this moment where she is sure that this guy she's in love with really has no feelings for her, you know. And that all happens at a regatta, because a tradition at the regatta is that gentlemen will ask ladies what's your favorite color, and then they will tie a shawl in that color around their mast. And so he did ask her, What is your favorite color? She said yellow. He's watching the regatta, and he's got a green shawl on the mast, which happens to be this other woman's favorite color, who she views as kind of a competition. So she does feel in that moment like all is lost. He just sent me this signal. However, his very terrible sister has switched the shawls, took the yellow, put the green in, and he doesn't know because he's colorblind. And he can't tell the difference between yellow and green. But that would have never ever worked if I didn't make that colorblind thing a thing right from the beginning.
SPEAKER_02Makes sense.
SPEAKER_01It keeps it comes up a number of times before this happens.
SPEAKER_02Makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So in that situation, your reader understands what's happened and they are waiting for the moment when the truth is revealed. Yeah. That reader knows the cloud.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the reader knows what happened. I do multiple points of view. So the reader was there when the shawls got switched. So then yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So you're definitely leaning on the dramatic irony there to carry the narrative into what's going to happen next. Are they going to figure this out? Will she, will she realize that it's not his fault?
SPEAKER_01The message beginnings are always, I do think a lot about those and try to come up with new ways that could really happen. So, like one time I thought of something I thought was really clever. I had a woman get two bouquets of flowers, and one of them was addressed to her, and the other was addressed to her rival, and the one addressed to her, both from the same man that they're both interested in. And the one addressed to her, because flowers had meanings in Regency romance, signified friendship. And then the one to the rival signified love. What it looked like is the florist had made a mistake, that he had gone to the florist, arranged these two bouquets, and then the florist accidentally delivers them both to the same address. That would be pretty hard to figure out, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So when you write these, I mean, uh granted, you've had a lot of experience, you've been doing this for a long time, but say you're a writer who's writing, you know, working on their first or second rom com. What would you what kind of advice would you give them to know? Like, how can they know if their humor is landing in the way that they're aiming for?
SPEAKER_01That's really hard. I mean, I think you probably need a beta reader for that, because I'm not sure you can see it for yourself, but I know what the problem usually is. It's usually it's a random thing, and it's nothing to do with who these people are, and the timing is off. Usually it happens too fast. So there's not enough time for the reader to really follow what's going on. I mean, that's what I usually see.
SPEAKER_02All right. So you have to know your characters, no random occurrences.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, I have the book that just came out for senseless complications. The heroine has a big secret. She's been hiding all her life. She can't read. And she's just been covering it in every which way. And back then, what could you learn if you can't read? There's no internet, there's no TV. So she only knows stuff she heard, and she makes up a lot of stuff to cover. And then her out is she'll say something that she thinks sounds right, but she don't really know if it's a fact, and she will cover it saying, you know, I've heard people say. So she could then blame somebody else if it turns out to be wrong. And she says some really out there things, especially when she panics and she feels like she's being cornered a little bit and somebody might figure it out. Then this stuff she says gets even worse. So that's a lot of the comedy in that book built on who she is and why she does what she does.
SPEAKER_02So why don't you tell us a little bit about your writing process? What it's what is it like for you to start with an idea and and take it to a polished manuscript?
SPEAKER_01You know, there's a lot of writers who like map everything out. They do like a really fantastic outline, and I admire that so much. I would love to be able to do that, and I just can't do it. So I just start. I know who the couple is, I know what they're like, I know basically what is the problem between them, and I know that they'll work it out by the end.
SPEAKER_02But how do you get to know them?
SPEAKER_01I just think about like, well, what would be funny? What wouldn't it be funny if Verity, who can't read, falls in love with an intellectual who belongs to the Royal Society? Like, who would be the worst person for her to fall, fall for? It's him. Not looking for that. She she has in her mind, I want a Corinthian, I want a guy who wouldn't know a book if it hit him in the head, I want a sportsman, I don't want to hear about book or reading or anything. And then she falls for Mr. Intellectual.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I I love that. Do you find that you think about the tropes at all before you create your characters or anything like that?
SPEAKER_01No. No. I'm usually just thinking about what would be funny.
SPEAKER_02What would be funny and what would be funny to you, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I have to say that I the opposites attracting is one of my favorite things to read in romance because I think it just gives so much natural. If it's the it maybe the banter, the chemistry, the I I like all of that. But then again, I have read where two characters, you know, have been friends forever, and something changes, and they are they fall in love. And I like that too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The first book in the A Very Fine Muddle series is Beatrice and her neighbor, who is a very scoldy couple of years older, always trying to direct her, and he's also in love with her. But, you know, she just thinks he's Mr. Bossy Pants and gives him a lot of trouble.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so you just you think about a couple and you think about who they are, and you try to find an interesting situation for them to be pushed into. And then do you just draft it? No plot. Plotting, no nothing. You just go for it.
SPEAKER_01No plotting. No, yeah. No, I just I just write it. And then if I have to go back and you know, when I came on the colorblind thing, like what is gonna be the confusion at the regatta, I had to go back um and build that to the book. But I never have good ideas when I'm trying to figure out an outline. It just doesn't work for me. And then I also have to think about who the servants are, because I always have a servant's point of view in there, whether it's a ladies mate, a valet, a butler, somebody who's gonna have their say about what's going on.
SPEAKER_02Ah, the outside perspective. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01And they also have their own trajectory. They have their own plot, their own subplot.
SPEAKER_02So then the revision process, what's that like for you?
SPEAKER_01It's not, it's not as bad as it used to be. Because I thank God that's helpful. I know. I think one of the things that happens is the more books you write, the more familiar with your own problems you get. So they're easier to avoid. So there's less writing yourself into a corner and things like that. And I think that can be really discouraging for a new writer to because I think sometimes writers almost have the mindset of, I'm as good as I'm gonna get, which is just not true, you know. And I think if they just recognize that the first book you write is probably gonna be very similar to the first book I wrote, it's not going to sell. That's what I'm saying. And that's okay. And after a while, you can go back and look at that first one and realize why. But each one teaches you something, you know, another little trick, and you just get better at how you do it, however, that is.
SPEAKER_02I think that's awesome. Well, when you look back on your writing career, do you think you would change anything?
SPEAKER_01I probably would have started earlier. I probably would have like figured something out when I was in my 20s in New York. Like it it is so strange to me that I sat down to write a Tom Clancy bestseller, got nothing done, and it never occurred to me to walk to the barn to Noble and find a book about writing. Like, why did I not do that? But I didn't. I really can't tell you why.
SPEAKER_02I have always been a fan of the expression that it takes what it takes, and sometimes we never know why. Just grateful to have wound up where I wound up in some ways, I guess.
SPEAKER_01I mean, my whole career has been like one weird happenstance after the next. I mean, most people don't have a high-power job in New York and then are living in the Caribbean, scrambling with some little restaurant. You know, I just done a lot of weird stuff, and things just sort of lead to one thing or another. And so I just fell into writing. It's very strange.
SPEAKER_02There's nothing wrong with strange. So you mentioned when we had been talking through email that you run a writing group and you often talk about the importance of having a schedule and understanding kind of what's happening in your brain when you sit down and say, I'm gonna write, but then you don't. And I can't tell you how often that happens to many folks I know and myself as well. So could you share a little bit more about the importance of writing routines or and maybe not the importance, because I mean it's kind of obvious. Like if you don't sit down and do it, it's not gonna get done. But the maybe your method or your system or what you encourage in this writing group to help foster that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I'm very insistent on a schedule, whatever the schedule is, because a lot of times someone will tell me, Oh, you know, I don't have time. And I'm like, well, do you have Netflix? Oh, you do so you do, in fact, have time. And you don't have to make it six hours of time, but you know, you have time. So, so figure out what the schedule is, whatever it's gonna work. Some people like to get up early in the morning, I don't. Some people write at night, I don't. I write Saturday and Sunday because I work during the week and I just like to keep these things very separate. That's what works for me. But it doesn't have to be a big schedule, it just has to be a reliable schedule because if you wait for inspiration to show up, forget it. Forget it. Inspiration is a late bidge to every party, always, always, always. And inspiration shows up after you started writing.
SPEAKER_02So amen to that. Amen to that. And within that, it's like you also have to consider that you can't have it all. You can't have your Netflix and your cookies and also write the book. I mean, maybe some can, but I can't. I have to make a decision and sacrifice something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, before I got published, I had to be really ruthless with people in my life about this writing schedule. Because until you get published, you know, you can say you're a writer, but it's like they don't believe you. They're like, oh, that's nice. You know, anyway, we're gonna have brunch on Saturday. And I had to be really hard line about that. It's like, I'm not doing brunch, I'm not going to the movies, I'm not going to the mall, I'm not doing any of those things on Saturday and Sunday, not doing it. So then after I got published, people were like, oh yeah, oh yeah, her writing schedule. But it's harder before you get published because people don't take you seriously. And that's just the way it is. That's how people are. So I'm yeah, I'm big on the schedule. And then I think it's helpful for writers to understand psychologically why it is that you really want to write something and then you never do it. Oh, tell me more. Yeah. Well, we know from surveys that most people in the United States of America have thought about writing something at some point, whether it's a novel, a memoir, whatever it is. And hardly anybody does it. And it's not because people are lazy or, you know, they've decided that Netflix is more important to them. It's really a psychological thing because you have your amygdala, your reptilian brain, stopping you from doing this. Your reptilian brain is afraid that everything is going to kill you. And anything new, especially anything creative, seems like a very big threat. And this is really easy to test. So, you know, if you decide I'm gonna write Tuesday, 10 o'clock, one hour, and then Tuesday, 10 o'clock, you are cleaning out your refrigerator, which you don't even like to do, that's your brain redirecting you to a safer activity. So if you know that, you can just sit through it. And if you really get stuck, um, you can kind of trick your brain. Just grab a book off your shelf that's in the genre you want to write in and start typing it out because you are teaching your brain a little bit of muscle memory. Oh, in fact, this does not kill us. It's fine, it's a safe activity. So it doesn't happen to me so much anymore. But the first book I sold, I wrote one middle grade comedy story, and the publisher bought it as a series of three. So I had two that I had not written, and it was a lot of pressure, and I was so stuck that the only way to get past it was I was still working full-time. So I would get in my car on Saturday and Sunday and drive to this little park with a lake and sit there for six or seven hours with my notebook. And I cannot tell you how many days I've sat there and came home with nothing. And then finally my brain just gave up like, fine, if we're gonna be doing this every weekend, I guess you might as well write the book, you know. And and so it's gotten less over time, but in the beginning, it can be really, really hard. And there's a great book about this, by the way. Have you ever read The War of Art by Stephen Pressman? Yeah, it's all about it. It's all about it.
SPEAKER_02Yep. The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield, and then there's the courage to write by Ralph Keys. That is a phenomenal book as well that talks a lot about that phenomena of your subconscious working very hard to protect you from uncertainty.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and you can outlogic that part of your brain, right? If you start thinking about things like, okay, well, let's say I write for an hour and it's terrible. No one is ever gonna know that but you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right? Yeah, I work with a lot of writers and I see this come up like if they broach a new piece of the story. It's not like if they're writing into the second act and it's a place they've never been before, or if they're writing past the dark moment into the climax and it's a place they've never been before. I see them freeze up. And it's the same principle. And so I often advocate for, okay, you know, if all else fails, let's write down everything that could possibly go wrong here. And with the writing with the book, with whatever. And then let's look at facts. Is this shit true? They're like, well, no, I I don't know for sure. Like exactly. Feelings are not factual. You know, it's but if if we show up and we continue to just do the work, we will close the gap. It will close itself as long as we keep showing up. So I totally am on board with this conversation. Like, I totally get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this is what stops people. It's all it's just all in their head. It really, really is. But it's a little bit logically saying, no one, no one ever has to read this. I can burn it, I can delete it off my computer, or if I've finished something and I don't really know, I don't want to show it to anybody. You can publish on Amazon under a pen name. And if you could trash in the reviews, delete it all and start over, no one will ever know it was you. There's so many ways to do it that can get around that fear of disaster.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that. It's like building in little safety buffers for you as you go along the way. And it also brings it back to the point of where's the focus? Where's the focus? I mean, if you're, I think most of us are future focused, right? We're focusing on outcomes instead of just being in the moment. I certainly know I struggle with this. I have to bring myself back to what am I currently doing? Because I mean, even if you say to yourself, like, okay, if I write it and it's absolute crap and I delete it, you know, the next thought that tends to come up is like, well, what's the point anyway? And so it's like figuring out, like, okay, well, why are you doing this?
SPEAKER_01Because it's fun.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Because you like it. You're not doing this shit because it makes you miserable.
SPEAKER_01I know. And and you did, I I do get I find it a little tiresome sometimes when I hear writers talk about writing as if you know, like, oh, this is so hard, this is such a struggle. Yeah, I mean it is, but put it in perspective. You are not digging ditches in the noonday sun. It's not that kind of hard, right? I mean, it has its difficulties, but there are harder things. So just putting it into perspective, I think, is a good thing.
SPEAKER_02So having said that, can you think back on a time in your writing journey when the writing did get really hard, when you did struggle? What was it like and and what helped you move through it?
SPEAKER_01Well, there was that time I was sitting in the park every weekend. That was just, I mean, and the days are passing and the delivery date is moving closer. So the pressure is growing. It was really, a really a horrendous time. And so I really had to fight against any kind of disaster thinking. Because, you know, it seems like it's very adult to predict problems, but it does get us into a very negative mindset. So of course I'm thinking, what if I go back to this editor who thinks I'm so good and I'm gonna tell him there's no second book? Like what will happen then? Am I gonna have to send them money back? Like it was just it was horrendous. It was just horrendous. But I think if you just put it, I mean, I don't advise that, by the way. I don't advise putting yourself under that much pressure right in the beginning. I had not been published yet. I don't know why these people just handed me a series. I was like, are you crazy? Like, okay. That was maybe a little too much pressure in the beginning. You know, would have been easier if I just sold the book I wrote and we just edited that book and we're all good. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02What do you think it taught you?
SPEAKER_01That I can just sit there and something will finally occur to me. You know, I think you can wear out your reptilian brain by boredom. Just nothing to do. I've sat in front of that stupid lake for hours and hours and hours. Nothing to do.
SPEAKER_02I've heard that from another author. They come to their laptop and they're allowed to write, and that's it. Nothing else. That's it. For that window of time that they're there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's kind of like, well, I'm already here. I mean, eventually, eventually they overcome the the stuck because they're bored.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that's what I do. I have a schedule and I can write or not write, but I have to just be sitting there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, it does give up. It's it it lets you write.
SPEAKER_02So has there ever been a piece of creative or writing advice that you've particularly leaned on over the years that you really like that has stuck with you?
SPEAKER_01One of the things I heard my publisher say, she was on this podcast with this Australian podcaster, and that I just happened to run into on the internet. And I was listening to it, and I was just about to shut it down because they were coming to the end. And the podcaster said, When you're thinking about bringing on a new writer, what is it that you're looking for? And this was Catherine Levesque, who runs Dragon Blade, and she said, they have to be a good writer, they have to be a good storyteller, and those two things are very different things. And they are different. And of course, I somehow knew that, but hearing it in a very concrete way solidified in my mind why so many times when I'm involved in a critique process, I'm thinking, this is well written, but I'm not carried along by this at all. That's why it's the storytelling piece that's kind of missing there. And then I think about it a lot when I'm writing, because it can't just be nice writing. Like what is the storytelling element here? You know, what what is gonna pull my reader along? Because I have to know how this ridiculous thing is gonna get fixed.
SPEAKER_02It's entertainment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. It's uh a piece of and there's a lot of ways to do that. You can do it with drama, right? It doesn't have to be light and and and nice, but it's like what how how are you giving someone an experience? Um that's the way I like to think about it. Yeah, and and then there's there's like the the the where books that where they're writing is just like uh, but I'm still in it. Like I can't stop turning the pages because the story's that good. Because I want to know what's gonna happen. That's the factor for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So a new writer, the best thing to do is just put a pick that book up, the one you couldn't put down, and read it like an editor. You know, what is the author doing here? And you're gonna spot a lot of things that you don't spot when you're a reader. Like, you know, the scene starts in a little mini mystery that's only part of that scene, but it does pull you into the scene. You know, those little things that you will see. What are the stakes? Tension, I think, is a big problem. A lot of times I read something that has really no tension in it, and and that can't work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I love that advice. I know once I started to read analytically, like it ruined me at uh a little bit as just a leisurely reader. So now I have to be very deliberate about okay, I'm leisurely reading, I'm like gonna turn my brain off. Like, yeah, read this. But it's the best thing to go back in a book that you loved and to ask, why? Why was I interested on page one? What was it? What was the thing? What made me start to ask questions? That's my favorite thing is to look for reader questions. When was the reader's interest peaked? So I think that's fantastic advice. So before we wrap up, I ask every guest that comes on the podcast, what is your wish for your fellow writers out there who are working on their first or second book and maybe are struggling. What would you what wish would you like to impart to them?
SPEAKER_01Just keep going because it's such a long journey. You know, it's like if you decided to play tennis, you're not going to Wimbledon tomorrow. You know, it just is a journey. And I, you know, I almost don't like giving that piece of advice because I remember when I started writing, I heard a writer say, oh, you know, you got to put like 10 years into it before you get really good. And I'm like so angry, offended, annoyed. Like, I'm like, no way is it taking me that long, you know, and it's not going to take that long for a lot of writers, but it is gonna take some time and some practice. You know, you can manage the time any way you want. If you are really super focused, you can just write book after book after book. They're all gonna get better and better, better. You're gonna learn where your weaknesses are. You know, you can speed it all up if you want to, and you can find the time and just do it. Because it's so fun, it's so rewarding, and it gets more fun as you do it more.
SPEAKER_02And I think, you know, the reality is we're doing it one day at a time anyway. But the time is gonna pass anyway, whether we decide to be committed to the things that we value and that interest us or not. And Netflix will be there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, Kate, thank you so much for your time today. Would you please share with our listeners where we can find you and your books?
SPEAKER_01You can get them online pretty much anywhere. I am in KU with all my books. So if you are a KU member, you can download them all for free. Yeah, Amazon's probably the easiest place because you can hit that follow button and then you'll get a notice for when my next book is coming out. Next one's coming out October 24th, but I got two brand new ones out now. So, and they're all fun. You know, when you need a break from the real world and and how awful things can be, there's nothing awful in my books.
SPEAKER_02Or if you're, you know, you write gritty thriller horror stuff like me, and you need a break and you need to go read something light. Just something to laugh about. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time. Happy to be here. Thank you for listening to the Write It Scared podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please leave a review. Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories. Let's lift each other up. Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable. I'll see you next week.
