Where Are We Now? Green Buildings

Update: Better building codes for all homes and building have been adopted in Michigan! You can read about it here.

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At the confluence of ever-rising housing costs and an ever-changing climate comes a single opportunity: make Michigan's homes, old and new, cleaner, greener and cozier. 

In 2024, we spent time on the pod going over what these homes look like and how we create them en masse. Now, Carlee Knott, the Michigan Environmental Council's climate and energy policy specialist, gives a recap and an update on the state of things.

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 Learn about climate, energy and more through the Michigan Environmental Council. You can also subscribe via email and follow on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn. 

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Common Groundwater is hosted by the Michigan Environmental Council and Beau Brockett Jr.

Our music is "The Four Seasons" by Antonio Vivaldi, arranged by Derek Zhang and performed by Jackson resident Taj Wallace.

Transcript

Where Are We Now? Project Greenprint

[00:00:00] 

Beau Brockett: The Common Groundwater Podcast is brought to you by Kalsec, an international company headquartered in Kalamazoo that provides expertly crafted ingredients that help food and beverages look better, taste better, and last longer, all naturally. Kalsec has set aggressive goals to send zero waste to landfills by 2030 and to create net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.

You can learn more at kaslec. com.

Beau Brockett: Hey folks, you are tuning into Common Groundwater, a podcast by the Michigan Environmental Council, where we look at environmental issues felt across the state of Michigan widely and deeply. We talk about, stories around them and solutions to them. [00:01:00] I'm Beau Brockett, your host. Joining me today is Carlee Knott, the energy and climate policy manager of the Environmental Council.

Carlee, welcome back. 

Carlee Knott: Thanks, Beau. Happy to be here on the pod again. 

Beau Brockett: You were our second ever podcast guest when we launched this podcast. Oh, geez, about 10 or 11 months ago now. at the time, you and I were talking about the intersection of climate and affordable housing. and we're back today to give an update on that.

really happy to have you on. I feel like a lot, a lot has happened in these 10 months or so since we last spoke, 

Carlee Knott: Yeah. 

Beau Brockett: Great. I should also note, too, for the people, watching this, that I am totally wearing the same outfit that I wore 10 months ago. Really? Yeah, to this podcast. I did change my undershirt.

This is, brown instead of orange, but I realized as I was setting up this for this episode. that I'm wearing the exact same outfit, 

Carlee Knott: It's full circle. 

Beau Brockett: Yeah, great continuity. 

Yeah. [00:02:00] as I asked you 10 months ago, throughout this like little housing climate mini series, I tried to ask fun little icebreaker questions around housing.

I figured we'd end this little mini series run today the same way. would you mind sharing with the audience, any features of a dream home that you have that you feel like you got to have as you look for any future houses of yours? 

Carlee Knott: Yeah, that's a fun question I feel like a big thing for me is having a lot of windows and light a lot of South and west facing windows because I have 30 house plants that need a lot of sun.

So having sun for them is good. And then also I like the sunshine, so having a home that's like very sunny I think is probably my biggest thing, but also the window should be energy efficient, otherwise it's going to be really hard to [00:03:00] keep it warm in the winter. 

Beau Brockett: Yeah, very true. And I take it like west and south facing are just are better for plants as a whole overall.

Carlee Knott: Yeah, I think south is the best, but west is okay. 

Beau Brockett: Okay, very cool. 

my dream house feature would be a front porch. I have great memories of visiting my family and just us hanging out and talking like on Sunday mornings on the front porch watching the cars go by the people go by. Very peaceful.

I like people watching so I feel like that's a must-have feature. 

Carlee Knott: Yeah, I love a good porch too. I love seeing those like old Victorian homes with like huge porches. I'm like, that'd be so nice for entertaining. You're just like, I love sitting out on the front porch sipping coffee in the morning, 

Beau Brockett: Yes, I would love a wraparound porch. That'd be great. Like those Victorian homes sometimes have. 

Again, 10 months ago you joined us on this podcast to talk about [00:04:00] the ways in which healthy, affordable, green homes can not only benefit people's pocketbooks, but also our climate.

And I feel like maybe to a podcast listener who's maybe first coming in, maybe this is their first episode, it might seem strange to hear like we kicked off this big podcast talking about something that maybe , doesn't feel as innately environmental as something like PFAS issues or solar panels might.

Could you just reiterate why the Environmental Council and so many advocates made this a laser-focused sort of priority this past year or so? 

Carlee Knott: Yeah, so I would say when it comes to climate and reducing our emissions, buildings are a huge part of that.

Often we think of the electric grid and transportation, electric vehicles, but buildings are the next step. I think it's around two thirds of all homes are still heated through fossil fuels. and [00:05:00] yeah, it's just a big opportunity both from an electrification perspective, but also just improving energy efficiency, any, less energy that we have to use is less emissions that are going out into the atmosphere.

But I think apart from the climate benefits, which are great too, is that this is really a people-focused issue. in Michigan, we have some of the highest, cost for energy rates in the country, especially in the Midwest. Any less energy we're using in our homes is going to make our utility bills that much more cheaper and people are better able to afford to live in their homes.

And also it just makes a home more comfortable and safe when you're able to live in it at the correct temperature, being able to live in a warm home in [00:06:00] the winter or a cool home in the summer. and especially in Michigan too, we have a lot of power outages that happen. we've seen more frequent storms lately.

That's an effect of climate change and a lot of times those storms will cause power outages in people's homes and having more energy efficient homes means your home is more climate resilient too. So if it's the winter and we have a big ice storm and your power goes out your home, since it's more weatherized, more energy efficient, it's going to stay warmer for longer in those instances, and you'll be better able to weather that storm and that power outage, too. 

Beau Brockett: Yeah, I love that. It really does feel like an issue that addresses urgent needs on multiple fronts, as you just mentioned, right? Housing affordability, more resilient homes and buildings against power outages and [00:07:00] creating a better climate future for the state.

Again, ten months ago when we last talked, We really spoke about kind of two different, buckets, so to speak, of advocacy that, that you and others were pursuing, the first being housing investments, like funding investments in, healthier, more affordable, more sustainable housing, and, updated building codes, codes being, the, the sorts of standards that, people have to follow to build safe and renovate safe, buildings.

At the time when we last spoke, the budget session was just underway. We were really making a big effort to get some, housing investments in on that front. Could you tell us a little bit about how that went and where we're at now? 

Carlee Knott: Yeah, for sure. I would say our efforts were [00:08:00] good. The results were not great.

,For last year's budget cycle, we had gotten, 20 million for a whole home retrofit program into one of the budgets into, the LEO sub appropriation budget. 

Beau Brockett: We did talk about that because I remember we had to explain all the intricacies of these sorts of committees and whatnot.

There's so many committees. yeah. 

Carlee Knott: But we got it in at least one budget in one chamber, but unfortunately it ended up not coming out in the ultimate budget. It got transformed into a broader, housing fund. So they could use the money for energy efficiency, but it also went towards just making homes more affordable in general, through new construction and like down payment assistance.

 We did get five million in the budget for pre weatherization activities, so that's [00:09:00] addressing health and safety issues, structural issues in homes, so that those homes aren't going to be deferred when they apply to the assistance program because there's like a hole in the wall or something that needs to be addressed first.

They'll be able to fix those problems with that pre weatherization money and then be able to access the weatherization assistance program. So that was the one bright spot. We've seen since the pandemic, there had been a lot of federal funding coming into states and that kind of started slowing down and we saw the effects of that in this past budget: I think having less money for all of the priorities that we want to focus on. 

Because of the Inflation Reduction Act that was passed at the federal level, there are a lot of federal funding streams for this work, thankfully. Michigan has started implementing their home energy [00:10:00] rebate program, which is actually two programs. One focuses on electrifying homes. One focuses on just improving the energy efficiency in homes, and these are for low-income homes, where, you can't always afford the big, upfront energy efficiency investment costs. 

Beau Brockett: Great. That's phenomenal. And I feel like, a lot of your budget work, again, as you said, didn't maybe turn out as planned, but it wasn't for lack of effort. You're, co organizing big coalitions of organizations, and maybe even a few businesses mixed in, all coming together around this effort to bring in more healthy, affordable, sustainable housing, and I feel like that effort alone, like those coalitions built, like really, I hope, I think really got across and hopefully got across to folks in the powers that be.

This issue is something that people want and that, that there's like a big movement around it, too. 

Carlee Knott: Yeah. And I think there's always [00:11:00] more education to be done, especially with our legislators on. The fact that energy efficiency is cost savings for everyone involved, it might cost a little bit more on the front end, but you quickly see those savings accrue year after year.

So it's, yeah, really beneficial for the people of Michigan. 

Beau Brockett: Budget expectations were not maybe necessarily met. What we wanted, we did not fully achieve. but we did have, another approach. I should say you and the advocates you were, working with did have another approach to helping create the sort of housing that we're striving for, and that was through our building codes.

Again, when we talked last, the effort was just getting underway for Michigan to update its building codes. I think it was literally almost in illegal compliance with its current building codes. They were so outdated, Michigan had to update them. And our approach was, if we're going to update them, let's make them, [00:12:00] include things that will make homes more energy efficient, more protected from the weather, things of that nature.

How did all that effort pan out for us? 

Carlee Knott: Yeah, so I feel like that's a long story. So Michigan has been operating off of a weakened international 2015 energy code since that code was adopted, and by statute Michigan has to update the codes at least every six years So we started that process with the 2021 international codes, back in 2021. And here we are in 2025, we managed to adopt the commercial 2021 energy codes, which is great. normally we're talking about, home repair and upgrading existing housing in Michigan. This is the flip side of that focusing on new construction.

We have new commercial [00:13:00] construction codes for energy so that when they're building new businesses they have to comply with the newer standards around energy efficiency. Also one of the facets included in the 2021 code that Michigan has adopted is solar readiness. You don't have to change the building plans at all, but if a building that's already being built, has a roof that is like facing the right direction and would be well situated for solar, the new solar, the code says that they have to include some of those, enabling upgrades on the roof so that if they do choose to buy solar panels later on, it's easy to install those and they don't have to do a bunch of expensive, enabling upgrades. so that's really great. 

Beau Brockett: Yeah. 

Carlee Knott: So commercial codes passed. The residential codes, though, for homes that we [00:14:00] all live in, did not pass and that's not the fault of advocates. I feel like we had really good advocacy on this issue. It's like a case study for getting a lot of environmental organizations and other partners to come together and advocate for those codes to be adopted.

Ultimately, it's up to the decision of the stakeholders. We can advocate all we want, but sometimes advocacy doesn't pan out. that process is continuing into this year. 

Beau Brockett: Gotcha. Yeah, unfortunately, it seemed like that side of, the code's work was a victim of some of this, what we'd call like lame duck, legislating.

We're at the tail-end of the year after the elections. Folks were scrambling to get legislation passed. That kind of sparked a, an anti [00:15:00] passage sort of movement within the legislature where roadblocks were created that prevented a lot of legislation from passing. and that was, one of the victims, so to speak.

Carlee Knott: Yeah, I get it too. There was a lot going on with the legislators during lame duck. A lot of personalities, a lot of bills. The Senate ended up, I think, having a record breaking, 36 hours or some crazy session. So the legislators were under a lot of pressure doing a lot of work. so building codes may not have been at the top of their mind.

Beau Brockett: For sure. For sure. and I also got a shout out too. I know we talked about the coalitions that kind of coalesced around this, but around the codes work in particular, we had, I think over 360 individuals, reach out to, to like lawmakers who are in key positions to say like we want building codes pass, not just for businesses and other commercial buildings, but [00:16:00] for homes as well.

And I think that was like a really neat effort to see unfold, especially around a topic that again, like it takes a little bit of explaining to do. 

Carlee Knott: Yeah. I think it's amazing and really shout out to our coalition and all of our, partners that we've worked with on this, I myself can do very little, but when we have so many people who understand the importance of building codes and can get that many citizens in Michigan to reach out to their legislators and tell them that updating the building codes is important, I think that's like amazing to see what the movement can do there.

Beau Brockett: Totally. Totally. speaking of movement, last question I have for you, I'm curious if you could like maybe do a little bit of prognostication to our audience. Where do you hope the advocacy effort goes in the months ahead? are there any game plans being formed or already in effect? 

Carlee Knott: Yeah, I think, on the two things [00:17:00] that we talked about, just final update on the building codes.

The residential codes have been resubmitted to the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules. so as with any rule set, 15, session days have to pass where both the House and the Senate, are in attendance and achieving quorum and then the rule sets will automatically be adopted. at this point, the strategy can be just to sit back, wait those 15 days for the rules to be adopted.

We don't necessarily have to do, a lot of direct advocacy, although I appreciate everyone who has been advocating, for the issue. so very hopeful that we'll see those codes adopted soon and then we can start working on the 2024 codes, which I'm happy to do. and as far as the whole home, retrofit [00:18:00] program that we have been advocating for, the past four years now, maybe, we're, continuing to advocate for that.

Like I said, there's a lot of different federal funding streams that have come to the state. but they're spread out across several different state departments. So we really do just need more coordination between the departments. We need some sort of state navigator program so that when person living in a low-income community is "I am struggling with my utility bills the windows are just leaking air non stop in the winter, like what can I do?" That there's like a website they can go to see the different opportunities of what they can apply for and receive funding to make those upgrades on their home or their [00:19:00] building, things like that. It's just good to see what resources are available.

And right now our state doesn't really have, something like that. There's not a single application to apply to all of these different sources. 

Beau Brockett: I really like that. So let's work on updating code so that when new things are being built, new buildings are being built, they're done so in a more energy efficient, healthier way. And then let's make the process of applying for and receiving funds to make current homes better easier for folks. I really like that. It's future oriented in the sense that we're working on new construction, but it's also still focused on the current housing stock here in Michigan. 

With that Carlee, thanks so much for joining us on our podcast episode. really appreciate you. 

Carlee Knott: Yeah. Thanks. Beau. Thanks for having me back on the podcast happy to join and hang out with you for a [00:20:00] little bit. 

Beau Brockett: Yeah, no problem. And, for the folks tuning in, know that, this work just doesn't end at the podcast. Carlee and the coalitions and other people will be working hard on, updating Michigan's housing for the better.

If you're interested in staying in touch with that, you're more than welcome to follow the links in our description. You can subscribe to our email list, or you could follow us on social media and we'll be giving updates throughout the months ahead and beyond around those things. 

Lastly, I want to give a shout out and a thank you to our sponsor, Kalsec, a spice company based in Kalamazoo. They are a B corporation, which means that they are grounded in a lot of sustainability requirements , for their company, which I think fits perfectly with the topic we're talking about today.

 With that, folks in the audience, thanks for tuning in and I hope to see you soon.