100 Episodes Of Rented Shared Living Truth - Reflections, Predictions and Bold Calls

We celebrated reaching 100 episodes by recording a special episode at the Laughing Around podcast studio in-front of a live audience made up of our fabulous partners, friends and listeners.

You can also watch it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/BQ1iAEfgkUs

In this episode we reflect back on why we started the podcast and what has changed since our initial conversations, we also cover:
- Why the “housing crisis” still looks like an affordability crisis
- We break down PBSA myths, policy chaos, and what might actually move the needle
- What happens to student housing if campus becomes “two days a week”?
- Rent freezes
- Renters’ Rights uncertainty
- And what's next for Housed Shared Living Podcast?

Thank you so much to everyone who was able to join us last Thursday to celebrate this milestone. We really appreciate all of our listeners and everybody who has tuned in since we started this podcast back in February 2024! 

Make sure you follow this LinkedIn page plus subscribe and follow the podcast to be kept up to date with all the key happenings and takeaways.

Dan Smith is Founder of RESI Consultancy and Co-Founder of Verbaflo.AI.

Sarah Canning and Deenie Lee are Directors and Co-Founders of The Property Marketing Strategists - Elevating Marketing in Property.

Who this episode is for:

• PBSA and student accommodation professionals
• BTR, co-living and rental operators
• Property developers and investors
• University and higher education leaders
• Anyone working in or around housing policy and shared living

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of their employers, organisations, clients, or partners. This podcast is for general discussion and informational purposes only. Nothing said should be taken as professional, legal, financial, or investment advice. While we aim to be accurate, we make no guarantees and accept no liability for decisions made based on the content of this podcast. This was a jointly sponsored podcast. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 2:37

We are live.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Three, two, one. Well, this is a bit of a different episode for several reasons. It's our hundredth episode, and we have a live audience with us today. Slightly nervous about it, although we can't see them, so that's uh that's a benefit.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

We'll need to insert, yeah, we'll need to insert some some clapping or some cheering or something there, I think, Gareth, if you can if you can do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

And we are on video as well as audio today. Um, so any of you that haven't listened for the last hundred episodes, I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

I'm Dan Smith from Resi Consultancy and Verberflow AI.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

And I'm Deanny Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists. And we are recording from the Laughing Aloud studio in Soho, um, surrounded by the people who have made this podcast what it is for the past two years, and some of our most loyal listeners. And we may cut to some live questions as well. So, some of our live audience, um you're welcome to WhatsApp us um the questions, and we may or may not answer them. So I thought for this episode, let's go all the way back to February 2024 and where this all started. We've all listened to the first episode again. Um, we were cringing a little bit because we we couldn't remember what it was like and what the content was. Um, but I was actually pleasantly surprised. We weren't as bad as I thought we were. Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

It was really good. I genuinely, I was really surprised. And I think to be fair, Gareth, our editor sitting there, takes a lot of the credit for that. But um, yeah, it was it was quite a hard-hitting episode, that one. We started with a bang for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yeah, I mean, what did we set out to achieve and and have have we done it? That was what I was kind of tuning into when I was listening back to it. So, one thing that we said is we wanted to make the conversations public that are usually done behind closed doors. We keep saying that we expose the elephants in the room, the realism of the sector, being transparent. Um, and we said that we could do this as we were independently positioned as consultants. And the benefit to us professionally is that it's forced us to stay on top of sector news, which in turn benefits our own consultancy practices and our clients as well. So, do you think we have done that? Have we continued to do that in over 100 episodes?

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yeah, I I do. And I think, do you know what you know it's it's been leveled at us, I think, like oh hang on a minute, you're not impartial or whatever. Well, we're independent, but we're consultants and we're commentators on the sector. So if you're expecting us to be the BBC, that's absolutely not what we are. We've got We've got opinions uh and quite a lot of them. They're not always going to be popular, but I think that's what the sector was crying out for. A bit of, dare I say it, personality for people to actually put their head above the parapet and and really talk about what the challenges are, what the you know, best practice as well, and and how uh if things are going well, call that out too. But but I think it's you know, you know, we've we've done a good job, dare I say it, patting ourselves on the back of actually being transparent, being very open, talking about some of the challenges in particular, um, and and what's going on in the state of the industry. And and it's not just student housing. I think that's one of the one of the key things. We'll come on to the word cloud that you've pulled together, Sarah, later on. Um and I think it's it's starting to, there's more BTR, there's more co-living, there's more later living and uh single family housing as well. And I think it's it's been really eye-opening for us with our consultancies as well, and and of course me with Verbflow too, to see how some of those other sectors respond. So yeah, I think I think we've achieved our goals.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

And I think I think that is the beauty of it. I think if you had a podcast that was and there's lots of podcasts out there that are run by corporations, but you've still got to tow the party line because obviously you have to, because you're working for a corporation, and I think that's where we don't have to. We can have opinions. So, yes, we're not independent and we have opinions, but we have opinions that are true and real and transparent, and I think that is hopefully part of the reason why people keep listening, and and I think we have stuck to that. I think we have always tried to say what we feel and what we think and what's going on, and our reality of the situation, and that is hopefully refreshing for listeners to hear.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I think one of the other things that that we set out to do that I think we have done, um, and we have a live audience here who will quickly tell us if we haven't, um, but it's that kind of connecting the dots between shared living and real estate and the built environment. Um, and I think, like you said, Dan, we've kind of brought those sectors together. We talk about all of them, and but it means that people are having conversations kind of less in silos, really. The the shared living, the BTRP, you know, PBSA, university living, later living, it's all part of a wider real estate and built environment network. And hopefully the conversations that we have weekly kind of you know knit all of those together.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

I think it definitely connects the dots. I think that's what we've that's what we've found. And yes, of course, a lot of our experience is PBSA or student housing in general, but you know, HMO sector as well. And we know that we have BTR and co-living as the so-called shadow market now, too. So, you know, taking a lot of students, but it's more how can those sectors also stand on their own two feet in their own rights, and we're starting to see that a lot more now. So, you know, being able to talk about that with authority I think is is key. But we're we're learning it every week, you know, and I think being able to talk about it with a reasonable amount of authority and credibility does does help, but I think primarily just talking about it, like it's starting conversations, and I think that's what we've we've all been quite good at.

Early Predictions And What Aged Badly

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Somebody said, and I can't remember who it was, so apologies that they like the fact that with the podcast we um kind of give people ideas and things to look into. We're not preaching to them what to think or how to think or what to do, we just kind of land some topics and the audience can do what they want with with that. And I guess based on that, when we were listening to the first episode, we we started off by talking about events that we'd been to recently, um, which is a theme that we've continued over the past couple of years. And I guess we count ourselves really lucky um that we get invited to lots of events because organisers recognise that we can talk about their events in front of people who maybe wouldn't usually attend or you know, share the content with people who maybe did attend but haven't shared that content with their colleagues. So in that first episode, we talked about events that we had been to. Um interestingly, I picked up that the I think it was an event that you went to, Deanny, that they said the real estate state sector had reached the bottom, but the curve is on the way up. So that didn't date well.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

I don't think we knew about Trump back then.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

No, possibly not. Um, and we also interestingly discussed challenges in recruiting into the construction industry, which was impacting viability. Um, and as part of that, we discussed diversity and equality in the sector, degree apprenticeships, and whether they should live in PBSA or not. And that conversation still has been away. Yeah, it's still going. And then we also moved on to talking about rented later living. Um, and I don't think that's moved on either, a hundred episodes later. Um the government hasn't really got behind this regarding shining a light on empty beds in larger houses owned by older people and making moving out of those properties easier without impacting quality or negating their financial situation and potentially moving into rented or renting out their properties either. Um, the cost of renovations, modernisation improvements are definitely ongoing issues that are going to impact the viability of those homes in the future. So it's a shame that that um hope and positivity a hundred episodes ago that I don't feel like that sector's really moved.

PBSA Demand Claims Meet Affordability

SPEAKER_03 10:34

It hasn't, and as frustrating as it is, and we've shot we shone a light on that with Anna Barrett from Birchgrove as well, with a special episode, and she is fantastic. So do go and check that one out. But um, but yeah, it just feels like that's such an opportunity, and it's it's a real missed opportunity from the government to be able to showcase what it could look like when you downsize, when you sell off your property. Is there an opportunity to rent? Do you have to buy? Do you do the traditional kind of McCarthy and stone model, or could you do a birch grove? And I think that's where there's definitely quite some excitement within the sector, but the capital's been quite slow to deploy there. So we've not seen a huge amount into later living, but on the on how the sectors are faring, I think it was it was really interesting to listen back to that first episode where within students we call out that we were not convinced about the international student numbers for that year. And that kind of came true. And a lot of that it was just from conversations that we'd all had with operators and clients and investors within the sector saying, ooh, you know, hang on a minute, what's what's the latest with postgrad numbers, with Chinese numbers, Indian numbers, what are the marketplaces saying, what's every operator saying, the universities, et cetera? And I think we're quite uniquely placed to have those conversations and then talk about it transparently, but not throw anyone under the bus and say, well, so-and-so told me this or whatever it might be. And that all fed the narrative that has really the thread of you know running through a lot of what I say in particular, um, is that we've seen some presentations at various different events from some pretty big agents saying we're going to be short of 600,000 PBSA beds by 2030, or 197,000, or 234,000, and those are the numbers that I, you know, directly that I'm quoting from some of those presentations. That's not the issue that we've got. It's not just a straightforward supply-demand issue in student accommodation, just as it's not in BTR. It's an affordability issue. And I think that cuts through the whole crisis that we have in terms of the housing crisis that we that we seem to have. It's it's more of an affordability crisis. And I think that's that's fed a lot of the consultancy work that I've done, but also then the commentary that we've all had uh through the course of each of these podcasts that there's one story, there's one narrative, but that narrative, there are specific vested interests where they get paid if that narrative flies, and it's on them to really push that as much as they can. Now I don't think they're all, you know, totally unscrupulous to do that. I think there's some genuine, you know, well, let's just massage that figure a little bit and let's just take pure supply, pure demand, overall student numbers, and then that's exactly where we where we end up. So we need to build 600,000 PBSA. But I think the frustration that we've had is that we kept seeing it time after time at each of these events, brilliant events, and we love going to them, and we're very grateful for any media tickets. Um but but yeah, I think that is starting to change. I can't remember the last time that I went to an event within the last year where an agent, especially, has stood up on stage and gone, right guys, go and build 600,000 beds. And I'm not sure where that report is now, but I'd be really interested to uh to go and see if that's still online.

ESG Shifts From Hype To Baseline

SPEAKER_00 13:48

So and I think that is fair. That is a a change that we've seen, and I think it is sad we haven't seen a change in apprenticeships and support for changes, and that there hasn't been that growth in um later living. But also, I think we spoke very briefly about COP on that episode. And that's changed massively, actually, when it comes to sustainability. Like back then, it was like the most important thing. We must keep up with sustainability, we must do the thing, and Trump effect, potentially, likely mostly, yeah. Is that's gone, that conversation has disappeared. So it is amazing to see what's happened.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

It will be back at UK Reef with uh with one of our one of our panels. Um but yeah, that isn't that really interesting, the fact that we're just not really talking as much or in the same guise about sustainability as we were, and it's moved, it's moved more from okay, everybody needs their ESG policies and their reports and their sustainability policies absolutely nailed on, to I suppose being a bit more of an asset management play. And you know, talking about okay, feeding into the due diligence and the acquisitions, and it's a bit more of a you know, expected now, I suppose, rather than hey, this is super innovative, and you know, maybe there's a green premium, it's now like, okay, this is you know more focused on the on the numbers. Um so I think it's becoming becoming more entrenched, but at the same time, if you're in the US or your US capital or potentially Middle Eastern capital, there's a lot less of a focus. If you're European capital or a European operator, you're still very focused on ESG. And that's really good to see because yeah, I I there's absolutely zero lessons to learn from any any kind of yeah, from from the Trump presidency. Um so hopefully sustainability will continue to uh uh to grow after he's gone.

The Fraudulent Bookings Wake Up Call

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, and it might just be like you said that it's now embedded. We don't need to talk about it at every single event because it is happening as part of kind of day-to-day you know asset management. Um the main topic in our first episode though, um was the scandal behind agents and fraudulent bookings in PBSA. Um this is probably one of your longer monologues, and that's that's something isn't that where the monologue started, is it really? And um I think we got less polite over the subsequent episodes, to be honest. Yeah, and started editing down a bit. The the the sentiment was correct. Um, and at the time it was it was really significant. Um, it was um it was something that needed to be called out, and again, it was just something that we were saying, just watch out for this. You know, you might want to investigate some procedures and processes in your business to counter um that. And we didn't see it again the the following season. So um, you know, whether it was it was us calling it out or or not, it was great to see that that's not something that we've had to kind of revisit over over subsequent seasons.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

I think it I think that definitely helped. Uh, and and yeah, after that first podcast, um Em did kind of pull me aside and say, Um, are you gonna let them speak at all? Um and and so yeah, but that was I was so passionate about that because I was dealing with it day in, day out. I was very much in the trenches with the operators, with them saying, We're seeing massive voids and cancellations in Glasgow, really hot location the year before because it was the you know post-COVID bounce. And then all of a sudden everyone was like, Oh God, we're, you know, we're now missing 20% of our cohort. Where the hell have they gone? Did a bit of investigation through to the point where I was asking operators, right, can you tell me the IP address of that inquiry and this, that, and the other? And put two and two together and and realized that there was some serious fraud going on. And some of that was was um was marketplace driven, some of that was individual student driven, some of that was potentially criminal gangs, you know, not to dramatize it too much.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

You didn't say the word triad. I think I did.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

It was the triad. Um but but yeah, cut that bit Garrett. But um but yeah, but it but it was it was on such a massive scale that every operator was kind of calling up, going, please keep talking about this, because we're gonna use it as leverage to go into our conversations with marketplaces and we're making sure that we are really hot on these processes and policies moving forward. But we could only do that with the conversations that we were having with the industry. So again, making sure that we're very focused on that confidentiality of who's saying what to whom and when. Um, that I think that's been really important that we're able to we're able to not have to name our sources, but also do a lot of digging there as well. Um that was really for me, I was taking up a lot of my time and I obviously wasn't getting paid for it. So I so at the time I was like, oh god, this is literally taking up two days of my life talking to operators and then speaking to marketplaces and working out you know which ones are potentially involved here or or you know, whether it's students or whatever it might be. And and uh yeah, I I I just remember thinking, crikey, if I had a pound for every time someone had called me about their cancellation rate in Glasgow or Bristol or wherever else. But um, but still, I think you know, we've managed to uh have a positive impact, I think.

Download Stats And Top Episodes

SPEAKER_01 18:48

And I guess based on that, I wanted to look over at some key stats from from the last two years. So over a hundred episodes, we are at nearly 30,000 downloads. And our top five episodes of all time, um the first one is the dangerous headlines being used in PBSA, empowering women in property, differentiating BTR, and how can we offer more affordable housing? Um, so that has continued to be listened to over the course of the last couple of years, um, which is really, you know, we find it amazing that it's not just the most recent episode that gets listened to. Um, you know, old episodes get pulled up as well, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

But that also makes me really proud because I think actually those things are the things that we're probably most passionate about in many respects. That actually the fact that that's the one that's listened to most is like, well, yeah, because that's the stuff that we want to change, we want to have an impact in. And so Do you know what that is?

SPEAKER_03 19:45

That that'll be agents sharing it around themselves because those dangerous headlines, that was, I think, a Guardian article, wasn't it? That was like, hey, we need to build loads of beds, and the students are all coming, and this is you know, this is amazing. And don't get me wrong, like PBSA industry is still very strong, but it's not it's not, you know, there where it was where you can just build it and they will come in a tier two, tier three city. Um, and I think that's where you know there was a some misleading headlines and and and numbers put out there. But you know, empowering women in property, that was a really big section on that podcast too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

And I guess on that theme as well, the second most listened to episode, Dan, you took one for the team here and you went skiing and did a podcast without Deanny and I.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Yeah, and that that was that was great fun, I'll be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Um it was.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Yeah, um, and and I that was super popular, I think, because of the you know, the the people that we had involved. So it was really, really good that that went down quite so well. Um, and yeah, 630 odd downloads later. Um But but I think we're it it's typically us, but we have people on now and again. We do various different panels, and I think that's you know, who knows, it might be something we do a little bit more of. There are some really good people doing the interview style podcasts, and so we kind of leave them to it for a bit because I think we're we're almost um, yeah, uh probably a little bit more news and opinions rather than.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

I think when we've had people on, it's more um about kind of sharing the latest news and having opinions on it rather than that kind of QA type um format. So the third most popular uh episode so far is um is clearing really relevant for PBSA? What shifted this year and long-term strategies?

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Stephen from uh UCAS is is in the green room at the moment. Um I think that was because it was um clearing has become a bit more of a a bump, like a speed bump rather than this massive spike that we've that we've previously seen. But um but yeah, it's it's really interesting to call that out in you know August, September as to what that kind of looks like. And I know we're on holidays during that time, but it's um uh it it's it's an interesting time to be commenting on.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

I mean I think the role of clearing Has changed massively over the years, and I think potentially that goes to show that people are kind of trying to understand clearing and trying to understand what it is now. Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah, completely shifted the kind of the whole cycle, really. Um, interestingly, the fourth most popular episode so far is one of our most recent ones, um, which was winning direct bookings from China, busting the myths, and giving practical takeaways with expert guests Sam Raisin and Gabriel Nicklin. Um I I think we're just gonna move on.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

I have nothing to say about that episode whatsoever. No, look, let me be really clear. That was a brilliant episode, and um, you know, Gabe and and Sam did a really good job of of explaining how you can get direct bookings because you can get plenty of bookings from marketplaces. We know where that's up to. Um And then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Talk about the fifth most popular. And the fifth most popular podcast has been The Future of PBSA and the Convergence of Shared Living is dynamic pricing out of control. Are you ready for Gen Alpha and having the perfect streamlined booking journey? So that's quite a meaty, yeah meaty episode. I might go back and listen to that one to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

That is a good one. Dynamic pricing out of control. That would be lovely if it was going one way, but I think that's um yeah, things are things are changing somewhat.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

And some more stats. So interestingly, our podcast is listened to in 110 countries.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

And the top six of those are the UK, the United States, Australia, Spain, India, and Ireland. So thank you very, very much to our global listeners.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Yeah, um, primarily the Verbaphow Office in India, I would have thought.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

But and in cities, the top uh five cities are Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, and South in London for our the main a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Oh, it must be a data centre or some kind of exchange or something that flows through from London.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

There are listeners in 1,426 cities. Do you know what I think?

SPEAKER_03 24:00

It is amazing. Do you know what I find really funny when I have conversations with people and they're like, oh, I'm just off on holiday? And uh it was actually John Moranga from um uh Almero, who you know, he was like, Oh, I'm just off to Zanzibar on holiday. And then the next thing I see the next week, he's like there's a a listener from Zanzibar, and it's like, John, come on, have a have a break.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

So maybe our listeners are just well travelled.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

All on holiday. I don't think we're inspiring the student housing industry in Zanzibar, to be totally honest.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

But um, and then uh the main places where the podcast is listened is mainly on Apple, 45%, followed by Spotify by Spotify. Um, and then we have Amazon Music and Overcast. Um and we've just started pushing out all of our podcasts to YouTube as well, because apparently people like listening to podcasts on YouTube as well.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

And our web browser features as well now, thanks to our website, housedpodcast.com. Thank you very much to Jake, who is here for helping to pull that together.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

And also, we do have some of our studio episodes on our YouTube channel as well, and they're not included in those stats. So actually, it's even more.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yeah.

The Word Cloud Behind Our Themes

SPEAKER_01 25:09

So moving on to key themes, and um obviously a visual work cloud is not going to work very well in the medium of a podcast, but we move on. Um, and I guess what this shows is the the main topics that that are kind of coming out time and time again. So we've got student accommodation and BTR in big letters here: affordability, investment, co-living, community, renting, pricing, housing, well-being, funding, um, planned. Yeah. Crisis is quite big there. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

It is. I did think that. As the first thing I saw, I was like, oh God.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Um but not that we're dramatic.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Well, some of us maybe.

Rent Freeze Panic And Policy Whiplash

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Um so they're the key themes, and um, I think judging by the top five episodes, they are the key themes that are most listened to anyway. Um, but on to more key themes. Now, although this episode is slightly unusual, but we didn't want to make it a complete throwback episode because it would be remiss of us not to touch on the latest newsviews and insights. So the hot topics this week um was Rachel Reeves hinting at rent freezes. Now that was kind of over and done with within about 24 hours because the likes of ARL and the NRLA were very quick to challenge this. And then Steve Reed categorically said this was not going to be introduced. Obviously, we will keep an eye on it because it has been muted up and down. But we have covered um this story in relation to the Republic of Ireland and Scotland, um, and it was a huge relief that this news was quickly swept away, but we will keep a close eye on it because it's something that I guess we've covered a lot and the negative impacts of what rent controls could bring.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

It was just such a shambles. Yeah. I mean, uh none of us are surprised, unfortunately, by you know, the Labour government and the shambolic communications that they seem to be putting out. But for Steve Reed to have to go on Good Morning Britain or whatever, and it was Kev Redmond, who was like, he's going on, like, have a listen to him. He basically had to, you know, rebuke what Rachel Reeves had said. And it's just, I mean, there is no wonder that we're gonna be so short of this these 1.5 million homes that they need to build within the parliament, um, because they just can't talk. They can't get their act together. The policy is all over the place. Renters' rights bill comes into play tomorrow. I am fascinated as to what the hell's gonna happen there. And so is everyone else. You know, a lot of the uh PBSA operators in particular have held off on signing any kind of contracts, and they're all going like, right, okay, it's 1st of May, quick, let's get everyone to sign. And uh a lot of clients that that I've got with Resi uh are starting to think, actually, what's gonna be the attrition rate here? How many cancellations are we gonna get? They may have paid a deposit or whatever, but that is gonna, it's just a again, there's you know, there's a polite term for it. So, you know, it's it's a bit of a mess.

Two Day Degrees And Flexible Living

SPEAKER_01 28:02

But we will be, you know, continuing to cover it. It's it's been one of their key themes over the last hundred episodes. Um we also read this week that Birmingham University are bringing in the two-day degree, essentially a commitment on a number of courses that students will only need to be on campus for two consecutive days a week to enable them to have jobs, concentrate on caring responsibilities, and save money. Um, however, we have raised time and time again as how does that impact accommodation if other universities follow suit even more than we're currently seeing?

SPEAKER_03 28:33

I don't know. I think I I'd love to have a chat with Tim about that actually. We obviously had Tim on a podcast after the student accommodation conference and awards, wasn't it? Um gosh, that was a that was a tough morning. But but Tim was great. He barely had a voice. Um, so he oversees the accommodation um at University of Birmingham with with Anita. And I just wonder, is there going to be because it fits in quite nicely with the episode that we did with Levanda as well recently. Um was that the last episode? Yeah. I think the last episode or or anyway, search Levanda special episode, where I think people are going to start looking properly at flexibility and that hybrid model of having a certain percentage of their rooms on a flexible basis. Because you're gonna need to. If you're doing, you know but but which days is it that people are actually going to need to stay? You know, uh is there gonna be one specific day, in which case are you just holding a room for one day a week and then how's that how is that gonna work? I I just don't know. So really be very interested to have a chat with Tim and Anita and and see where that's up to.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, and it just is I guess my worry is is it is it short termism in the sense that we need to do something now to get people back into university and making it affordable for them and flexible, which is all great, but it's a long-term impact. And I think I've said this many times. My concern is that is I I think is a real shame if people aren't going away to study and moving out of home. And if we're making it easier for them, we're making that distance from doing that even bigger and greater, and then it becomes just what you do. And maybe that's the right thing, maybe that's the wrong thing. But I think in a world where people probably do need to give the next generation a bit more leash to go and just be themselves and learn about themselves and find themselves that's the only way to do that. So I just worry that it's short term isn't to save to support a university now, but in the long term, is that actually going to support the university?

SPEAKER_03 30:33

I think the good news is that with the University of Birmingham, they're doing it from a position of strength. So they're not sort of a tier two, tier three university, like oh god, how do we make the numbers stack up? They're thinking how can we innovate? What does this look like? Is this something that we could actually make work? So I think that's a really positive sign. Um but yeah, I you know, with more modularity in the way that we do the courses, what's that gonna look like? Is there are there gonna be modules where you can just study at home and then six weeks you do that, and then six weeks you go in and maybe live at a certain accommodation? Does that make it more transient? What do you get from the experience? We've got all of that to think about, but the universities should be that testing ground. And I think we've got some that are right at the forefront of that. They're the canaries in the coal mine, they're testing it, they're innovating systems and structure and you know, that modularity and the two-year courses, whatever it might be, and they're already thinking about um uh degree apprenticeships and things. I I I think the more we can see the positive case studies from that, the better. But either way, they just have to share their learnings. I've no doubt, you know, Tim and the team at University of Birmingham will, but but like I said, good that that's happening from a position of strength and that they're the ones really kind of pioneering it rather than it being oh no, I won't name a university, but a university that is struggling.

Youth Poll And The Value Of Uni

SPEAKER_01 31:50

I think the other thing is that there is a bigger impact, you know, the less people that are living on campus, the less secondary spend on F and B, the less people that will be in societies, the less students that will be playing sport, and then the less students that will potentially stay retained in a city after their degree as graduates, as we've seen in the past, you know, so that could have a really big impact um kind of ongoing, like you said, it's short-termism really. It definitely fixes a problem right now of affordability and um, you know, uh uh applications, um, but it could have a longer-term impact, you know, not to mention the social life, the community, the life skills, um, etc. This week we also digested the UK youth poll from the John Smith Centre, which proved um to be quite depressing reading. Um the top issues facing young people in the UK are inflation and the cost of living, housing affordability, healthcare and jobs and job security. Um, and 36% said they don't think a university degree is worth the cost. Um, therefore, you know, sorry, 36% said the university degree is worth the cost, therefore the vast majority don't. Um, the students that were were um surveyed said they are getting more worried about their financial financial plight and now quite significantly believe their lives will be worse than the generation before them. Um a lot of information in the report, so I'm sorry that I just picked out the really, really depressing headlines there. Um yeah, it was sobering reading, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 33:18

It was. It's um I don't envy anyone making that decision as to whether university is is worth it at the moment. But I think I read a really good article by Paddy Allen this morning, and I think we are moving towards uh we're gonna be polarized. We're either gonna be specialists in AI protected degrees, effectively. I don't know what that kind of degree is, to be honest, because AI is touching almost everything, or we're effectively gonna have generalists who understand like I did French and politics, not because I wanted to be a French politician, I just wanted to go to university. I wanted the life experience, I wanted to live in France, and I think, you know, that was ultimately where uh I, you know, became an adult. And I think that was that was really important for for me personally, less less so the the academics of it all. And I think that's what's gonna happen in an era of AI where the world of work is so disrupted, I think people are gonna have to focus on their life experience. And you may just have to invest in that and understand that there might not be some tangible outcomes to this. You know, your graduate outcome may change. There it might not be that you can walk away and go, you know, I I've got£10,000 more than I would have done if I'd have done a degree apprenticeship or whatever it might be, but you will have that life experience. And so much of that is about living away at university, getting out from, you know, from living with your parents or whoever, and and actually standing on your own two feet. And I had that, I you know, and I had the opportunity to stay local. I could have gone to Canterbury Christchurch or or Kent or whatever. And I chose to go a little bit further afield, um, just far enough so that I wouldn't be tempted to go home every weekend. And I think that's where we're almost back there now, where the trouble is it's it's so much more expensive. So how do you how do you reconcile that? I don't have the answers, none of us do, but I do understand this that you know, 36% said a degree is worth the cost. That's that's pretty that's pretty damning. And it's something that we definitely need to change. And I don't know, I don't think the universities are really being proactive enough as a whole. That being said, University of Birmingham coming out with a you know a two-year degree, and and others have trialed it as well, and we've seen that. And and I think that is something that we'll you know we'll we'll see more of. Because my final year at uni, I I think I had three and a half hours of lectures or seminars, and I think I probably went to zero of them. So did I need to be a away? No, probably not. But I think there's a a way that we could condense it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

So it comes down to marketing again, doesn't it? I think evidence or communication that actually we've got to show the value, and we've got to show the value of actually going to universities more than just a degree. And I think we've lost that, and I think we are at high risk of losing that for a whole generation. Um and that's my fear, um, is that actually once you lose it for a generation, you've then got to work twice as hard to get it back because it's not what the generation before went to you. And I agree, I think that report is really difficult reading because the younger generation should be full of hope and ambition and strive and wanting to go and make things the world a better place, and they don't have that. And that's because everything is hard for them, every step of the way. It's hard to go off to university and change their outcomes, it's hard to get on the housing ladder. Everything that they've been told of what can happen is a struggle, and I think that's where the government have really got to try and not that they're going to, but um we've got to try and make things different to get hope back into people's lives, because that's really quite sad. So let's change the subject because that's quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

So we're we're at the end of season six with our hundredth episode. Um, what about season seven? What what can we expect?

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Oh, don't look at me. I don't mind. I'm the least planned person in this room in this room.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

I think we um we we wanted to put it out there to our audience. We have a live audience here, but we have many listeners who are not here today as well. And we'd love to hear what you think about it. Um, you know, we we have our classic News Views and Insights weekly podcast that we love doing and will happily carry on doing. Um, we've thrown in the odd kind of special feature episode with some interviews and some insights um from key leaders in the sector, which again, happy to do to do more of. Uh a few people have suggested Housed on Tour. Um it before the podcast, it started to get a little bit carried away with the talk of buses and drones and you know, and and all sorts. Yeah, that was mainly characteristic. So, and so we have to have a pretty big sponsor to uh to enable us to do that. So, yeah, so really um we'd we'd love some feedback about what people want more of, less of. Um we are going to be doing um a special um event episode. So um next week we're gonna be at the ARL Tech Conference and the LD Student Accommodation Conference. And Deanny was at the Inner Circle event yesterday, so we're gonna be doing an event special, and then we've got three live podcasts at UK Reef that we'll be putting out as well. Um, and then who knows? So please give us some feedback.

Crystal Ball On Housing Supply

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Uh we also have a couple of questions from the from the audience. I'm conscious of time to be fair, but we've got a couple of questions from the audience. Um we have, yeah, what does our crystal ball say about the resi market in the future? And are we ever going to build enough houses? So that's that's two to start with. Um and we've got Tim's Tim Stephen from uh from Verberflow uh collecting these questions. Um so yeah, what are your what are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Um no, I don't think we're gonna have enough houses because and and part of the reason that we do this, and part of the reason that we have our shared living summit at UK Reef is to shine the light on the shared rented living sectors. And I don't think that the government or the housing department can do this on um buying you know houses for sale or affordable houses on their own. I think rental product has to come into it, and we're not seeing enough support of that. So um, I mean, I don't think that they'll they'll they'll hit it by the target that they set anyway. I think that's absolutely ludicrous, but um, it would be nice for it to go more in the right direction. Um, I think some of these big towns that have been announced, the new towns, I think is really, really positive and they they are you know made of of mixed tenure, so but they're not that's not enough to hit the targets.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I think more of the same. I don't think anything's gonna massively change. And I asked this question at the inner circle event last night is what is the one thing we could do around affordability? And I think the answer is that so many different things have got a shift and change around, you know, investment metrics, you know, cost of supply, and and and unless something's gonna move and nothing uh in the global sphere is moving in the right direction, so unfortunately, more of the same.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

I agree. Uh I I can't see the government getting their act together, getting out their silos and actually having a coordinated approach to any kind of policy with regards to that. And the frustration that we've seen from the ARL and from REUK, the new body that was the BPF, um, is is really tangible now. Uh, you know, I watched Brendan Gerharty speak the other day at um uh at the UK Reef dinner, actually, that Matt invited us to. And he's so passionate about getting the rental sector involved in some of these decisions because we're not seeing the government bring in BTR and you know single family housing. It's just talking about what homes should we build. You know, should we go to Persimen or Red Row? I don't even know if they exist anymore, those two companies, but um but it's just focusing on the house builders, and that's what has to change. I think that's the most most frustrating thing that I see. We're we're not getting listened to. Uh, the industry, the rentals living sector is just not being listened to. And so we're not forming part of a lot of the figures, and therefore we're not a part of the solution. And so if we're not going to build houses to sell, what's the point in in listening to us? And uh but yeah, it it's um it's all falling on on deaf ears.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Regarding the crystal ball, one thing that I think is happening, I guess if we're talking about the next hundred episodes, which is probably another two years, um, we are starting to hear talk of particularly in PBSA and BTR from developers really wanting to create that affordable product. We've not seen it yet, but we're not being told no anymore. So um is anything gonna fundamentally I mean it's not gonna come out of the ground in the next two years, but are we gonna start to see something? I would really like to think so, because um that has definitely shifted. We're we're hearing more yeses than no's now.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Yeah, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Okay, well, that's a wrap on our hundredth episode, and we're off now to have some cake and enjoy a glass of bubbly or two. Um but as I said, we will be back for some special episodes, um, and then we'll be covering whatever you want us to cover in the summer months and September onwards. Um, but in the meantime, some heartfelt thank yous to Joe and Kerry in our team for organising us and tirelessly promoting the podcast. Um, to Gareth, our ever-patient producer, Jake for creating the visual brand identity that has literally taken over a life of its own with UK Reef. Um it's phenomenal, and the sponsors and partners over the last hundred episodes, some of which are my student halls, Utopia, Wash Station, the eWord, Howard Kennedy, Fusion, the Class Foundation, Levander, Tong, Viva City, and Howden. Massive apologies if we've missed anyone off. Um, but you know, thank you to all of our listeners as well. Um, and we'll look forward to the next hundred episodes. That's a wrap.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Well done. Awesome. Really enjoyed that.