Student Housing Sentiment - Realistic or Defeatist? Increased Decision-Making Factors, Lobbying, Viability, Affordability & Sobering Predictions.

This week's conversations are inspired by the recent industry events the hosts attended as we discuss:

- Why postgraduate demand falling (down around 8% in 2024) should be on every operator’s radar.
- How commuter students rising to 31% changes the true picture of housing need.
- Why planning decisions can still disconnect from what actually fills beds.
- How leasing strategy is shifting city by city.
- Why parent input is now more important than ever.
- Why the sector needs a stronger, more coordinated voice to defend the value of going away to university and living independently.

Thanks to all of the organisations for putting on some brilliant events for the sector, please do check out all of the relevant pages and websites to find out more.

StuRents Summit
Investor in Students 360°
Student Living Forum UK 2026, hosted by The Class Foundation.

And if you are holding an event you'd like us to attend - please get in touch.

Dan Smith is Founder of RESI Consultancy and Co-Founder of Verbaflo.AI.

Sarah Canning and Deenie Lee are Directors and Co-Founders of The Property Marketing Strategists - Elevating the role of Marketing in Property.

Who this episode is for:

• PBSA and student accommodation professionals
• BTR, co-living and rental operators
• Property developers and investors
• University and higher education leaders
• Anyone working in or around housing policy and shared living

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of their employers, organisations, clients, or partners. This podcast is for general discussion and informational purposes only. Nothing said should be taken as professional, legal, financial, or investment advice. While we aim to be accurate, we make no guarantees and accept no liability for decisions made based on the content of this podcast. 

Transcript

Hosts Reconnect And Set The Agenda

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone, and we are back for a brand new episode of How's the Shared Living podcast. We hope you've been enjoying our mini-series of special episodes, and of course, we have all of our UK Reef episodes, including really great panelists and some analysis from us. But since then we've also revealed the secret superpower PBSA operators and investors can unleash in last week's episode with Deborah Udolph and Esme Webb, and a great chat with the team behind Collegiate UK. But we haven't had much of a chance to catch up together and sort of dissect the latest news, views, and insights. So here we are in a regular housed episode. I'm Dan Smith from Resi Consultancy and Verberflow AI coming to you from Cornwall.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists. Nowhere near as exotic or exciting.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

And I'm Dini Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists, and I'm just in my normal place of somerset.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

And now part of the reason that we've been so busy and slightly off the radar is primarily taking a break after UK Reef, because that was full on. So we've we've managed to grab a little bit of time off. But it's also because of the great events that we've been attending ourselves, and we've had to divide and conquer at various different times. But today we're going to pick out some of those key pieces of data, commentary, and insights from the Stu Rents Summit in London, uh the Investor in Students event in Birmingham and the Class Foundation Student Living Conference in London. I mean, Sarah, Deanny, it was my opportunity to go to uh Stu Rents. So let's start with that. And I'd love to get some of your thoughts on some of the key things that were talked about there. Now it was a really interesting event, uh, firstly, because we rocked up and Sam Smith was there at the Fulham Football Ground where the event was held, and not Sam Smith from a BODUS, as in Sam Smith of singing fame. And uh and so that sort of set everyone abuzz, although much confusion.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

That's that's that's mad. What was he doing there? Was he uh attending the conference?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Well, I I'm not sure he's got too much of an interest in PBSA, if I'm being honest, but no, he just rocked up there at the same time. He obviously had some kind of event going on there, uh, was flanked by what looked like two East End gangsters, which was quite quite interesting. But uh he let me through because I wanted to get to Laura Kurt, and I think he thought I was, you know, stalking behind him, so was ever so polite, but um a very strange start to that that um that event anyway. But I I I love the Stu Rentz events, and I think the reason behind that is that it feels like it's always it's always arguably the more realistic in terms of the outlook, and I think part of that is because of the incredible data that they've got. They don't shy away from you know those those difficult conversations because it's all backed by data, and that's the sort of model that Mike and Richard and and

StuRents Data And Market Reset

SPEAKER_00 2:48

the team pulling it together have really done well to cultivate. Now, there were some really good panel sessions and it was really well attended. Firstly, kudos to the team there for turning it into a paid event and putting all of the money to Student Minds charity. They raised £20,000 on the day, so really good to see that, and long may that continue. I think if we can see more of that, the better. But great opportunity to raise some money, do some good, and get the right people in the room. And that's what it felt like. It wasn't just the usual suspects that you would expect to see on the stage, it was a really nice mix of people and all providing really sort of fresh insights. So, some of the key sessions that I'll that I'll kind of pull out, in you know, the the first one was Richard obviously doing his keynote, covering roughly where we're at, giving a bit of an idea of what's happening in certain cities. You know, they have to be relatively careful with the data that they show to a certain extent, not just because they want to sell that data and and the you know how each market's performing, but just because of you know the the properties and uh and the clients that they have. But overall, demand does remain strong long term, but the market has changed since the post-COVID boom. You know, obvious statement number one. We we know that. But what was really good to see is some of the data around the post-grad numbers. So they fell about 8% in 2024, and that is that should be a major concern to pretty much every PBSA operator in particular, that's pretty heavily reliant on those post-grad numbers. Affordability is now the defining issue. Uh, you know, students have far less disposable income, you know, maintenance loan balance left over has roughly halved since 2021. Like that's pretty horrifying when it comes to the rent uh and the the portion of the maintenance loan that is that is going on rent. Over the last 10 years, which we all know, um, and you know, Sarah and Dean, we've spoken about this a lot, commuter students are up from a third a decade ago. So they're now 31% of students. Uh that's you know, something that is right at the top of people's uh at the front of people's minds because of the fact that that number is increasing year on year. And it seems to be that there's this kind of like they're either in PBSA or HMO or any kind of student housing or they're commuting. And the picture's actually a bit more sort of nuanced than that. But yeah, just a really good, a really good session from from Rich. There's I covered a load more in my LinkedIn post, but the good news overall from Rich was that the demand growth required to sort of rebalance, you know, that sort of supply-demand ratio is roughly half a percent a year for PBSA, uh, and and about one and a half percent with BTR included, so number of students, etc. So it doesn't take much of an uptick for PBSA to effectively, and BTR as well, to effectively be full. And that's something that I think we can take a lot of heart from if the direction of travel from government wasn't quite so hostile towards international students. And he signed off that session on saying that you know the era of broad market tailwinds is pretty much over. It's not just build it and they will come. You know, the next phase is going to be one through better data, better operational execution, which we've all been pushing for, uh, you know, operators included, as well as us as market commentators. And it's a much more nuanced picture between locations. We are getting hyper-local in terms of the way that we're having to approach this investment. So, you know, PBSA, student housing as a whole, really, really has to uh take a really regional, hyper-local look at university success, what else is popping up, the supply, it's BTR, it's HMO, and just factoring all that in. So, really, we just have to have to do a lot more

Planning Decisions Versus Real Demand

SPEAKER_00 6:41

and a lot better due diligence to make the investment work. So, yeah, really, really good session. Anything you want to pull out of that one?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Coincidentally, or not coincidentally, um, I've seen two articles in the past week about planning permission being given to PBSA despite there being empty beds in those cities. Now, the fact they've made BBC news makes me think that someone's paying attention, but you know, developers, planners, councils are still giving planning permission, you know, or considering applications. And it just, you know, you you just said everything, Dan, that just seems like common sense. And I just still feel like despite our best efforts to campaign for people to look at the micro data, you can't just look at numbers of students at a university versus number of PBSA. We know it doesn't work like that, and those commuting numbers is another metric that I think is being underestimated, but it's also it's difficult. I don't think that, well, you UCAS don't know for sure. They know how many students are indicating they're going to stay at home at the point they apply. But I don't think universities necessarily completely know either because they then need term time addresses. So I don't think there's a complete national database of how many students are actually living at home. But clearly, whatever that data is isn't being fed through into councils and planners and developers. The articles that I saw were specifically relating to Durham and Southampton, you know, and yes, there would be more student accommodation needed if there were empty beds. But also the one I read this morning about Southampton was saying, we need other forms of homes. Why is it just student accommodation that's being built? And we know that BTR isn't being built, but people seem to be still being able to get planning permission for PBSA, and we know it doesn't correlate that you will be moving lots of students out of lovely HMO areas into PBSA to free up those family homes. We know that that's what developers are telling planners or that are telling local communities, and we would love for that to be the case, but as we know, and as you see all of these conferences, PBSA is not competing on price or product with HMOs, so it's not we can't just say that all of those young people are going to move out of those HMOs into PBSA. Wouldn't it be lovely if they did? But they're not. So, you know, all the metrics that you just talked about still need to be shouted louder and clearer for the people at the back.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, there was an acceptance in the room that you cannot build any PBSA for less than you'd have to charge £230 a week for. So that's the cheapest room that you can effectively build in PBSA right now. That's not affordable. I know that affordable is you know subjective, but at the same time, I think we have to be really mindful of the fact that you know there are going to be a lot of developers and some investors who are, and of course, some agents who, you know, it's in their interest to be pushing certain narratives, whether it's go and build in a place that may be oversupplied, but the land is super cheap, or you know, maybe it is like Durham, don't get me wrong, Durham, great city to build in. Um, very, very difficult to get the planning permission there, but you know, the the the HMOs fill by uh December, and I think the PBSA is still pretty strong in terms of occupancy. So I think what we're seeing now is is that people are calling a lot of this out. It's the maturity of the sector that you're not just going to accept that you'll you know building Sheffield or Coventry or or Nottingham now, which is the sort of poster child of of uh oversupply. Um and and and you know, and that students will come. I I think this is this is the point. And it has been for the last two years, realistically, with the occupancy dips, where people are starting to realise right, we cannot just listen to developers, to agents, to whoever else that are just pushing this narrative because that's the way that they've always made their money. We have to think much more long term, and that maturity is absolutely key. So I think that's one thing that came out of this um event for me. And we had we had Lucy Keeling from Colliers on stage as well, um, being super upfront and transparent and saying, uh, yes, it's it's a lot harder to make the money that we had uh, you know, that we'd seen for the last you know five years or so. Um, and that post-COVID boom seems to have normalised. She was measured in the way that she talked about it, of course, but it was just really nice to hear an agent on stage being really, really, I don't want to say honest, because I think all agents are honest. There's a certain amount of storytelling that goes into how they push their narrative. And and I think that yeah, it was just good to hear that there's a bit of realism in the market now. Um, but I think the planners don't care. Like they're they'll sign pretty much whatever if we're being honest. And uh, you know, I I think there's a lot less understanding from from planning, apart from in the likes of Nottingham, as to who's actually going to live in those buildings and what PB what it actually means to have PBSA uh in in a city.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Um I just wanted to come back on the um it can't be built for less than £230 a bed. Is do we need to, because I've heard that a lot, um, and that's

The 230 Per Week Affordability Wall

SPEAKER_01 12:15

generally the considered view, but is it almost a bit to fitist that actually that's not quantified by anything? That's not quantified by being within X distance from the university, by whether that's ensuite, by hitting the requirements for social space by being ensuite rooms, by being a studio, just because it kind of doesn't open up opportunities if we're just saying you can't build it for 230, you know, what's the investor returns on that 230 per place? So, unless we're talking about actually this is the makeup of all this, it closes down that conversation, it closes down the opportunity that it kind of says we can't build it for that, so therefore let's move on. Or based on everything we understand now in the market, we can't build it for that. Or am I just being a bit rose-tinted or argumentative, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 13:06

I I think there's just there's a focus on can we do what we've always done and get what we've always got, and and that was really stellar returns, and you could build something in you know, anywhere reasonably central or even outside of Ring Road and and be able to flip it pretty quickly to a credible owner operator or anyone else in Middle Eastern capital or whatever it might be. But that's not the case now. The sort of short-term flipping seems to be less of a focus, and that's where the maturity is really showing itself in the long-term capital that's coming into the market with the various new entrants, uh, Australian Super being one of the latest ones, thinking long-term, thinking of this as an income play and an asset value play. And and I think that's where, yep, talking about the £230 number, that's something that is based on previous uh returns, effectively. So it's it's just it's tough to make it stack up. Big lots of talk of viability, lots of talk of affordability. Everyone's a bit bored of those buzzwords now, but but realistically, they are here to stay. That's what we're going to be talking about consistently for the next five years at least. And you know, that viability and affordability is is still absolutely

University Finances And Sector Consolidation

SPEAKER_00 14:16

key. And just the last two the last two sessions that I wanted to quickly cover on Stu Rents, great session by Paddy Jackman with Brian Welsh, Nevo Connor, uh Sal Rab from University Living, and Karen Best from PWC. Bit horrifying as to the situation with UK universities, to be completely honest. Karen Best gave a bit of a warts and all approach to that. Lots of talk of no no talk of you know any universities going bust or anything like that. Although I did just see that um uh one university has had its uh CAS license revoked already. Seemed a bit of a spurious university blooming something or other. Genuinely don't hadn't really heard of it, to be completely honest. But but either way, that's a bit of a concern that Cas licenses are starting to tighten up, so finances are going to get squeezed even further. And then just that there will be probably some more mergers. We've seen that there have been a couple of mergers recently, that's likely to happen more and more, and we'll probably end up seeing the rise of the supergroup. We called that last year when we first heard about Kent and Greenwich merging, and I think that is the direction of travel this year. So not expecting any unis to go pop, which is great, but likely to be some more mergers, which overall could slim down the the student numbers there. There's a really good speech from Brian on the panel as well, just talking about the fact that uh a really sort of again, warts and all approach of saying, yes, it's not quite as easy as it was, but the opportunities are definitely still there for the right capital, the right return profile in the right places. It's really that it is that simple. It's that binary almost of saying, you know exactly what to do, you cannot just build it and they will come, but there's a way to extract maximum value from those assets, and it's by running it really effectively operationally. So Brian's well set up for that. Neve was super focused on the fact that she's had to become a bit of a space maker and and a placemaker, as it were. So you can't just think I've got this land, I'm gonna build a PBSA. You've got to start thinking about that whole community area. Uh so yeah, that was really good. And Saurab was talking about the Indian demand, probably painting quite a positive picture. I'm not convinced the picture's actually that positive, but yeah, that's a that's another story altogether. And then Matt Walker, Paul Watson, Tom Ferber, and Sam Rayson talked about you know the student demand in 2026. Lots of focus on China within that uh within that one. Uh, lots of talk about general

Booking Later Incentives And Marketplace Power

SPEAKER_00 16:39

booking behaviour pushing later because we're all seeing those incentives again, as horrified as we all are, and they all said it on stage. No one wants to see it, but we're all seeing it. And we will see it later on this year because students booking later, investors get nervy, commissions to marketplaces go up, so everybody rubs their hands in marketplaces and the incentives come out for the students. I am already seeing, from a marketplace perspective, commission of 15% in Glasgow, you know, which I think talks about the health of Glasgow as a city, which is clearly not looking particularly good. But we're all just using marketplaces as a catch-all for later on in the market, and that's just not healthy for anyone at all. And it's breeding a lot of negative sentiment around bottlenecking and price gouging and all of that stuff that no one really wants to hear. But it's just the nature of the beast. If the markets aren't quite as solid as we want them to be, marketplaces will step in. But again, just a lot of focus on affordability, and that's where the HMO sector is doing pretty well because institutional capital is plowing in there. You know, Tom from Homey was on there, and you know, I saw I saw the guys from Locate Me there as well, who are deploying a lot of Brookfield capital. It is a really big opportunity to institutionalize and professionalise student HMO uh markets at the moment, and that is a real good affordability play. But um, yeah, overall, I would say that the mood was positive, but it was more realistic. And I think it's because there's an as an ex there's an acceptance now. Two years ago, there wasn't. That you know, people were sort of saying, ah, you guys are being really bearish on the market. I've had agents come to me and say that for years. And and actually, what it is, it's it's not necessarily that we're fully bearish on the markets or that we think that you know PBSA isn't a sound long-term investment. Far from it. It's that you have to be super targeted, hyper-local, and much more focused on operational delivery now. And I think that's where affordability is really coming into play from an operational perspective. Students are looking for it, and Stu Rents were quite happy to show that on uh in the um throughout the day. So well done to Rich and Mike and the entire team at StuRents, really, really good event, and um look forward to uh to being back with just just a really good event. Um Sarah, did you

Investor In Students Focus On Happiness

SPEAKER_00 19:04

want to now come on to um investor in students? This is what I haven't been to this one before, and I would have loved to have gone, but I went out to uh to India on Verbaflow business relatively late. So I know you um uh you headed there. So how was it and uh and what did you find out?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah, I hadn't been to one of their events either, but I'm always really fascinated to see the data that is is released from investor in students. It's obviously there looking at residents who live within universities and PBSA, and that's in the UK Island and Australia as well. Um so they had some really interesting points of difference with data from the other side of the world as well. This is really about, I guess, resident satisfaction and resident happiness. So quite different to the Stu Rents event, a lot less conversation about you know returns, you know, and and even not really about affordability. There was uh quite a lot of talk about parents though, which obviously does kind of support what you were saying because parents are having to support their students uh their children a lot more financially. So they have high expectations as well of of where their money is going. And I think really what they were saying is kind of when you paint that kind of broad brush about what a student is looking for, what their parent is looking for, expectations are incredibly high. But when the stakes are high, the risk of failing is high as well. Um, you know, and there's a lot of things that they were talking about. I thought this was a really good example, like safety and security, it's the thing that parents are going to look at the most. But nobody is going to say, hey, I got nine out of ten for you know student satisfaction regarding safety, because it would throw massive questions about that one out of ten that you know of students that might not. So people kind of don't talk about it, there's no kind of metrics about it. Everyone just says my building is safe and secure, and you know, that and people have to kind of believe it. So I thought that was quite quite interesting. And we had a really interesting debate actually over like one of the coffee breaks about how involved parents should be. The contract is with the student, they're over 18. Yeah, how much, you know, how much communication should an operator or university have with a parent?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Seemed like there was a lot of talk about that. I I heard a lot of feedback and and saw it on a on a WhatsApp group. Um, yeah, that that that there's a lot of feedback on parents are a serious channel that we need to be considering a lot more in terms of the decision making. And maybe that's because university is now so expensive. It's it's not just a decision about value that that a student would take themselves. But um, yeah, it was really interesting to hear.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah, no, that that was an interesting conversation. Um, other things that were were discussed was about kind of the impact.

Parents Expectations And Safety Signals

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Of a bad check-in, that kind of initial welcome and the impact that it has. So 57.8% of students who have had a bad check-in become NPS detractors. So you could probably do anything else that you want later on, but if they've had a bad experience first, that's going to stick with them. They were talking about kind of overnight arrivals and, you know, that you've got to look at your welcome dependent on the different cohort. You know, a first-year cohort welcome will look very different to a second and third year cohort. Overnight arrivals from international students would look very different. And there was also a question about can the expectation be too high? I mean, I feel like I've experienced this in the companies that I've worked for before. You know, the red carpet, the fireworks, the coffee stalls, the events, you know, 27 staff on site all come to do this check-in weekend. And you can't keep that up. So they were talking about kind of really looking at data, personalization, and kind of really, you know, considering not just the welcome weekend, but those first weeks afterwards as well. One thing that I wanted to talk to you guys about is something that we talked about quite a lot as well, is flatmate matching. And I think we were talking before kind of about interests, values, hobbies, those kind of things. But actually, something else is coming out of the data is about what about those people that live in a flat but they go home every weekend, or they've got a boyfriend or girlfriend that they go and stay with every weekend. Where does that leave maybe the one person or the two people left in that flat over the weekend when their flatmates aren't there, when there's no events on? I thought that was a really, really good point. And from a parental point of view, Bethany, my stepdaughter, has definitely experienced that as well. So even if people don't want to go down the kind of psychometric testing of flatmate matching, which we also had a conversation about in one of the coffee breaks, and it actually seems that technology is the problem, not a will to do it. But surely you could at least say, are you intending to stay in your flat most weekends? And then try and match the people that are going to be staying with other people who are going to be staying at the weekend so that they get a great experience and don't feel loneliness at the weekend. What do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

I think it's a very valid point. I think it's always going to be tricky, I guess, because I guess most of our systems are moving towards a student books the room scenario, which is where the flatmate flatmate technology needs to be part of that booking process. But I think it certainly shines an operational problem on actually you are going to get more unhappy people if they are in that scenario. And actually, you know, if we're not doing any flatmate matching or any work beforehand, is that work that needs to be done during the

Check In Fails And First Weeks Matter

SPEAKER_01 24:53

year just to ensure you get that you get that satisfaction really and that happiness. And that's that goes for universities. Universities want retention, and that's going to help retention. But I think it is it's a really interesting point. And I think this also potentially goes along with the parent point. I think you know, for most of my PBSA career, it's been very much yes, parents are important as an influencer, but we're talking about 18-year-olds and it's an adult and they're making decision, and that's still very much the case. But I think it's a very different generation of young people, and a very different very different generation of parents, and letting that leash go is very different to what it was 10, 15, 20 years ago, I think. And that's probably part of where that engagement and influence of parents is greater and even stronger, because that connection between parent and child is not stronger, that's not the right word, but there's definitely more of a protection level there, I think, than we've probably witnessed in previous generations.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I I I think this is where the US is miles ahead in terms of their flatmate matching or roommate matching, whatever you want to call it, because most of the PMSs have their own built-in flatmate matching, and uh that is all done pre-leasing. Um, and and then there is an ongoing piece managing, like, is this panning out how you were expecting in terms of your flatmates and the dispute resolution? And I think that's where UK and European operators are are still pretty good managing that community and how harmonious that is. But yeah, we all just need to do a better job of of thinking about that roommate matching. It was painful going through that manually when when I was at NEDO. And I'm sure you guys have both been through that process as well. As and it's not just as simple as keep the postgrads away from the undergrads and never the two shall meet, um, and maybe don't put Indian students with other students or Chinese students with other students because they some of them want to cook all together and some of them just want to be in their rooms and all of these different typical stereotypes that come into play. But I think there's almost psychometric testing that goes on in the US, to be completely honest, to really fully define you know who you're going to want to live with and uh and how successful that would be. And as a result, uh I think the rebooking rates are much, much higher in the US. Actually, I will just I will corroborate that. I'll um I'll get some I'll get some stats behind it. But everyone I've spoken to has far higher rebooker rates than than I was expecting um when I'm in the US, and that's some pretty big portfolios. You're talking sort of 40-50% a lot of the time. Whereas I think sometimes in the UK we're happy with uh with sort of 20 or 30%. And that would typically be well, I would say probably because we have a more of a focus on postgrads, but equally, I think it's probably because of the way that the communities are curated before uh anyone's even moved in. Um but yeah, really, really good point there.

Roommate Matching And Weekend Loneliness

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, other other things that were were talked about, there was a very lively debate about opening your doors to people who don't live in your accommodation. How far should you go? Could PBSA become a hub for commuting students? I also had a really interesting conversation with the the Levanda team about short-term lets and how there's still a kind of you know attitudinal difference from staff as to whether somebody is a short-term resident or a long-term resident, and you know, why should that that be? And that's a strategic decision that comes down to training. Um, and you know, I think the sector is going to have to adapt their attitudes to this a lot more. Um, you know, there are going to be people that are going to be on shorter lets, longer lets, and they're no less valuable than anybody else in the building as well. There was also a nod to university strategy, which is something that that you know, Deanny and I experienced with some of our client work as well, is that strategy versus recruitment and commuting and accommodation and it not being a lined up approach. Obviously, there's going to be empty beds on campus if you're concentrating on a commuting cohort and getting them um into courses as well. Work from home as well, has that contributed to the commuting shift? I thought that was a really interesting conversation. You know, young people are very much used to their parents sitting at home like we do most of the time, you know, on the computers and you know, that we're fine, we're not, you know, we're not we're not lonely, but actually kind of, you know, I guess without clear demonstration. And we talked about this a lot at the conference, and I question it again and again and again. People keep saying we've got to talk about community more, we've got to, you know, show the benefits of living at university, but I'm still not seeing it. I don't understand, you know, I don't think that's shouting about louder. All we're seeing is university wasn't worth it, it wasn't worth the loan, it wasn't worth the debt. So again, if we want to get people out of their homes, the same way that you know the the commercial office industry has shifted in the years following COVID. Before nobody worked in an office, and now offices have had to work really, really hard and companies to get people into the office, and that's through flexible work, but it's also through to the benefits, the environment, the community. I got sent a brochure for this amazing co-working well-being community in Northampton today, and I'm like, God, that looks amazing. You know, people are having to work harder, but I'm not seeing that from universities either. Like, what will persuade them to live on campus? Anyway, that was investor in students. There was so much, yeah, more questions than answers, but at least conversations.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Good, good. Um, and then Deanny, Class Foundation, Student Living UK. How was that?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

It was brilliant. As always, the Class Foundation conferences are are great, well attended. I actually was fortunate enough to attend a round table the day before the actual event, which was a

Opening Buildings To Commuters And Short Lets

SPEAKER_01 31:06

meeting of associations of associations, where we had UPP Foundation in the room, Unite Foundation, um, UKRE PBSA, UKRE's PBSA board, um a someone from ANUC, um, and myself and IIS. So um it was brought together by Kellyanne with a view to really bringing together all those people that have a voice in the sector and ensuring that um we are collectively building that voice and um shouting about the things we need to shout about in terms of the good that um the sector brings to universities, to students, um, and equally enabling us to talk about the challenges that are facing to enable to keep on doing that good. And um, Sarah, the things that you just talked about there about the lack of positivity in university, either just going to university in itself or going away to live at university is is non-existent, and we're just getting that negative news came up really strongly around actually we do need to do more. Um, and obviously, talking about the regulations and all the other things that came out over UK Reef around the challenges it is around building that we've already discussed, but it was a really refreshing approach and um conversation across that room of actually we can all sit here and moan about it, and we can all complain about it, and we can say we need to do different things, but actually, that was a moment that Kelly Al was bringing people together to say, Well, let's do something. It was the first meeting of that group of people, and I think there will be more. It was really great. Matt Merrick from IQ was there, um, and he was there as a member of the UK RE's PBSA board, so it was really great to hear the work that they're doing around trying to build those um relationships with key people, stakeholders, and key people in the government. And I think it was really good to hear what the UKRE um PBSA board is is working on and doing, and really just aligned around all the things that we've we've talked about and housed consistently, all the stuff we talked about today around um affordability, viability, uh well-being, and ensuring that ultimately I think you know, for me, being part of that group is that actually I really think it's gonna be a real shame if we end up with a generation of people that don't even go off to university or at least don't go off and live away to university, because I think that is a really important part of growing up, finding you, um, being yourself not being enclosed in your own community environment. Um so that was the day before the actual event, and then the next day was the event held at Osborne Clark um's offices, and just it was a UK living event, and all the usual kind of UK players in the sector were there. Yes, so Kellyanne started with sobering thought of her the mental well-being research that they've been doing about two or three years now, which looks at the MH1, I might have got that wrong, the mental health kind of all the studies that do about the best place to live. It's the same

Class Foundation And A Unified Sector Voice

SPEAKER_01 34:18

research metrics that is done for that, but it in all of those things across the globe of those research students are neglected to be surveyed in that. So the class foundation has taken upon themselves to do that survey, and they're obviously collecting that kind of long data. The sobering information she gave is actually across all of um the market in Europe. The UK is performing the worst on that mental well-being table. Um, the UK is only at 51 um at 51, whereas 60 is good mental well-being. Um none of Europe actually, I think, has got the 60 mark. Um, so it's a it's a a problem across the board. I think the highest was 58. But yeah, the UK is performing the worst on that scale. And I think there's lots of things going on there. We all know that actually the PBSA is doing great work on mental well-being. There's lots of things that are going on, but yeah, in terms of this global kind of world, well standardised scale, um we don't have happy, healthy, mentally well students, um, which is quite a sobering thought.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

I guess that kind of speaks to the fact that your place to live is important, but there's so many global factors that are probably impacting that. You know, your your residence, your PBSA, your university accumulation can't fix it all. You know, I I think the announcement about social media being banned for under-16s is probably a big part to play in things like those mental health index figures. Um, you know, as well. Obviously, we're talking about over 18s, but yeah, I think it's uh it's a hard, hard world for young people to live in at the moment. And despite those sobering figures, I don't think that all the great work that PBSA are doing on well-being and mental health should should stop. It doesn't, it doesn't mean it's having no impact. Imagine how low it would be if operators didn't do all of those great things.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I agree, and I I I'm totally with you. I think there's a lot more other things going on than this is just an impact of going to university and living in a certain type of environment. It is, you know, like you say, Sarah, I think there is a lot of issues impacting that it's a it's a tough world to live in right now. I think it's it's not easy for people of my our generation, um, and it's certainly not easy for young people. And I think in in many respects, you know, they're the first generation for a while that the the future hasn't looked positive. You know, I grew up thinking the future was going to look rosy and positive, and we were going towards positive things. I don't think that's necessarily how that generation felt, and I think that probably is coming out of it. And like you say, I think there's lots of good work going on in universities and in PBSA, and that needs to keep going. And hopefully, you know, you know how I feel about kind of social media, and I think that ban that we had in the UK yesterday was a positive, hopefully a positive step forward, and hopefully, we're not going to see instant changes, but hopefully 10, 15, 20 years' time, we might see more of a shift in that. But saying that, we also the meeting also had presentations from uh Stephen from UCAS, um, and he came with lots of positive data, you know, like there is still lots of students going to university. Yes, there are more people that um that are looking to commute, and there was another stat that showed that there are

Student Mental Wellbeing Data And Reality

SPEAKER_01 37:57

still lots of people considering lots of other options whilst alongside university. So I think that's something to watch out for. And you know, I'm always talking about apprenticeships, and apprenticeships is a big part of that, and I think something that I'll raise, I raised at the Associations Associations meetings, and I'll continue to raise is that as a sector we need to work with the government to change the classification of apprentices as working people, not students, because they can be part of our market and they should be part of our market, and they shouldn't be beholden to the rest of the property market when they are also students whilst also working. Um, so and that came out in the UCAS data. And the other thing back to how we originally started this point um around kind of the positives of going to university, what UCAS did share was some data that they did, which was obviously last year, kind of just after people had got to university, is how they felt about how that was going to achieve their goals, and that was a positive. I think I can't remember the exact step, but I think you know the majority of people felt that going to university was going to help them achieve their career goals, and that's the kind of news that we need to get out and we're not getting out. That actually it is still a positive thing for young people to go and do and be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

As an aside to that, I don't know if you guys saw the documentary that was hosted by Gareth Southgate on BBC about um young men, um, but that was related to that. I really highly recommend it. But it was basically saying kind of the job prospects at 18 are pretty poor. And usually when we see these kind of stats, it increases the number of people going to university because they know they can't get a job at 18. And the trouble with the current economic situation and the very, very well publicised uh affordability challenges with going to university is that we might see this big kind of influx of 18-year-olds in unemployment with very few prospects. Um, it it kind of I I have talked to quite a few people at these industry events uh about about that. And what's really worrying is I'm talking to peers of my son. Um, he is year nine. Um, so we're talking about kind of 14-year-olds, and pretty much all parents of pretty smart kids who could go to university are saying, Why why would why would I encourage my son to go to university? It's going to cost too much money, but they're not thinking, well, what else? What else are you going to do at 18? We know there's not enough degree apprenticeships, but I would certainly, I will what I want my son to either go and do a traditional degree or a degree apprenticeship, because I don't want him entering that job market at 18. Because the the mental impact on these young men who were unemployed, the the struggle of applying for jobs, not getting feedback, the struggle that they had with not having money, so not being able to go out and enjoy their lives, like some, you know, maybe some friends that that did have jobs, um, not being able to afford to go on dates with girls or boys, you know, that meant that they were very, very isolated and they spent most of their days in their houses playing PlayStation because they literally had nothing else to do, no purpose. Um, so I think the whole sector really needs to do a lot more to encourage people to go to university because the um this country is sleepwalking into an unemployment crisis.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Well, this is what we talked about more more recently, and and we've talked about it on the podcast. I've talked about it a lot on LinkedIn as well. How yes, universities have got a lot of work to do to showcase the value to you know students who are really questioning quite seriously whether it's worth going to university and getting a degree. That's on universities to show that value in an era of AI and in the cost of living crisis. Is it is it really worth it? But they're grappling with their own financial difficulties already at the moment. They're all going through restructuring, and it's you know, there's no sort of cohesive strategy that we can see from government to support that. I think it's so important that we really showcase that value that that life experience brings. Moving away from home, living with other people from different backgrounds, different nationalities, and and and different cultures. And I think that is arguably what we're going to start seeing as being the USP for university. The fact that you actually get to live as an adult independently

UCAS Trends Apprenticeships And The Value Story

SPEAKER_00 42:33

on your own two feet. And I think that's where we've currently missed a trick because we've left universities to do all of the PR work for it. And now the living sector is so fully entrenched in it, even though commuter students are increasing. I I think we have to do a better job at talking about that life experience. But that means that everyone has to actually do a better job of showing that value, of delivering that value. It's not just about putting on more events and whatever else. The focus on wellness and and uh mental well-being and and all of that, I think that's super important. And how can we ensure that we're showcasing the life experience alongside the academics? Like, you know, that's that's one thing I think we all have to do a better job of to play devil's advocate.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

I still don't think people think that living experience is worth the money. And and you know, you've got to think that as well as a mortgage, you are gonna have to pay your child's rent as well, because most people will not get a grant because the grant payments for living costs or loan payments for living costs are at such a low level that most people will will never, you know, will never meet those. So I don't disagree with you, but I think it's much deeper than than that. And like you said, that living experience has got to be so damn good that someone's willing to pay 10 grand, 12 grand upwards a year in rent for their young person to get it.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I think it needs to go a bit deeper than that though, in the sense that I think this is about, you know, and I've I've said this several times. I I'm not sure that the current government or the one before is really that bothered about university degrees. I think they're quite happy if people go off to do apprenticeships than going to do a degree. But I think that we need to almost, as a sector, kind of like like the the when I speak to people, um obviously my children aren't quite of university age yet, or you know, my eldest is just in year seven. But when I speak to my parent peers and they ask me about university, they're they're shocked at the costs, and they have no idea because they're not gonna start thinking about it until they get to 15, 16, 17. And it kind of almost feels that I think that, and I've said again this before, that actually we're gonna end up in a cycle where it's not the dumb thing that you do that you go after university and it becomes a cultural thing that you either stay at home to study or you don't go to university and you go off and go straight to work, and that changes a whole for a whole generation, you've got to get people back to that. But if we leave it where we are, like you say, so we're sleepwalking into someone that actually I think we need to activate this generation to say, actually, don't take away that option to go away and study from and and governments have a part to play in that because there is levers that governments can pull that can help people to build, that can support universities, that can help people to go away and study without it being only an elitist thing. And I kind of feel that we've almost got to to raise awareness to this generation that aren't the kids aren't quite there yet to get them angry and activated enough to say, actually, I want my child to have this opportunity, don't take it away from them. Because that's what will happen, it will get taken away, and we won't have as many universities, they won't have as many options, and it'll only be the lucky few that can afford to go. But that's my two cents worth of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah, I think on top of that, you've got all of this bad press about student loans as well, and most people completely misunderstood that and don't really understand what a student loan is. But like you said, it's that education younger. I I've been saving for my son to do something with at 80, whether he goes to university or or you know, has or travels, but if I had to start saving now, because I suddenly realize that it's only four years till my son goes to university, I'd have no chance. But if people had the opportunity to to put a little bit of money away, much younger, then maybe they would. But you you don't think about that when your child's two. You know, you don't think about it when they're seven. So, like you said, by the time you start thinking about all of these decisions, and like you said, young people aren't being talked

Why The Sector Must Sell The Life Experience

SPEAKER_02 46:40

about, you know, being spoken about it younger either, that maybe that dream is is going to be too far out of reach for so many people.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Well, that was depressing.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

It was a little bit, and as ever, we have massively blown through the amount of time that we thought we would take on this episode. We were trying to keep it to half an hour at 50 minutes already. So um uh let's call time now. Um, and so that is a wrap on the latest events from the sector. We couldn't get to attend all of them. We try and get to as many as possible. Do get in touch if you have an event that you'd like us to come to and uh and cover. And uh, we'd encourage you to follow all of the organisations we've mentioned today. Make sure you sign up to their future events because there is so much to unpack there. Um, we'd like to mention that we will return to our usual series of news, views, and insights in September with season seven. So please get in contact if you'd like to be a sponsor. Uh we can't create this podcast without support, and we uh appreciate our sponsors so much. Uh, and we think they get quite a lot out of our uh uh the partnership too. Um we're back next week with a special episode unpacking the voice of the renter with housing hand. So tune in to hear more about their latest research. We'll see you then.