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The Mel Lawson Show
I'm Mel Lawson, mum of 3, Founder and CEO of Bare Biology (a UK supplement brand). Basically, we talk about life. From psychology and health to self-development and spirituality, and much more. We have experts, we have fascinating guests, and we talk in a very open and honest way. We share our vulnerabilities and hope to entertain and inspire you, maybe make you laugh, and possibly help you experience some ‘aha’ moments along the way.
The Mel Lawson Show
The Skincare Mistakes That Could Harm Your Teen's Skin | With Annabel Jardella | The Mel Lawson Show
Kids as young as 10 are on the hunt for anti-aging products, while teens scroll on TikTok to catch the latest skincare trend. But what's the impact on their delicate skin?
Join us in this episode as we delve into the complex world of teenage skincare with Annabel Jardella.
Annabel Jardella is a leading beauty expert in skin, products and ingredients. Her 25-year career has taken her from designing makeup on exotic film shoots and teaching makeup artists, to developing her own products. Annabel specialises in cover and camouflage with a passion for natural products and solutions.
After hosting a series of “Confident Wellbeing" workshops in schools, Annabel is launching Teen 360 Consultations. These sessions help teenagers and their parents understand how to manage their skin with a 360 approach including lifestyle, hormone health and product recommendations.
We explore the concerning results of using complex products without the right knowledge. Annabel also shares her recommendations and emphasizes the power of an uncomplicated skincare routine for teens.
We hope this episode can empower you and your teen to feel confident finding the right products for you - and more importantly what to avoid!
This episode is sponsored by Melanie's family-owned UK supplement company Bare Biology.
This episode I have the brilliant Annabelle Giardella, an amazing skincare makeup expert. We both have a passion for helping teens and, in particular for Annabelle, a teenage skin, which I'm sure if you're either a teenager or you have teenage children, is a big, big, big topic and something that can cause a lot of distress. And we're going to talk about really practical tips on how to help yourself if you are a teenager or if you're a parent, how to help your teenage child Skincare routines. We're going to talk about a holistic approach. So, looking at nutrition and some of the root causes, we're going to talk about the more medical approach and our views on those and, of course, the recent press coverage around that skincare brand that all the young tween girls are buying and all the controversy that's come up about that.
Speaker 1:Hello, annabelle, hello, thank you for joining us on my podcast. I was asked yesterday what you do by my husband actually said who are you interviewing? And I said lovely, lady called Annabelle Giardella. The way I described you is somebody who's worked in extensively in makeup and skincare and you basically know an awful lot about skin things we put on our skin and you and I are both very interested in talking about teenage skin. I think a really good place to start is your background in the industry.
Speaker 2:Well, I really started my career in fashion, in makeup, early part of my career, and then that led into I'm just via some contacts into the film industry, where I stayed for about 10 years I think. Even at the early part of my career I was always the one on set who was known for like the products. Everyone would come to me and say what's the latest thing? I loved packaging and I loved I mean, I was there when I was 13, but I was doing makeup, which is what's so interesting about the subject we're going to discuss. So I understand that love of products and slowly I led into more beauty writing opportunities changed and then into cover and camouflage, which was something very dear to my heart from an early age. And at that point I started to get very interested in formulation and see quite a few gaps in the market, especially in the area of complexion. So that's really how I then fell more in towards understanding about skincare formulations especially, sort of having an expertise in complexion.
Speaker 1:And when you say complexion, what do you mean by that? Because when I hear the word complexion, as a 51 year old I've had that rings bells sort of thing my grandmother would say about oh, you've got a lovely complexion.
Speaker 2:Yes, for me, complexion is the sort of intersection where skincare meets makeup and when I'm teaching sort of makeup artistry, I would always say to all of them in the room if you have a difficult complexion ie you've got a lot of cover work to do don't worry about the lipstick, the eyes, the rest of the makeup.
Speaker 2:If you've got 45 minutes to get an actor out onto the floor, just get the base right, just get the complexion, because that's the thing you can't go back to. And it would be the same, I think, for anyone that if you're going to get something right, at the start of the day it's the complexion, because then all the other stuff kind of comes from that. There's a lot of misunderstanding about how to get a good complexion and really one of the reasons that we're here today is to talk about how these things need to be working together and how these days it's actually harder than it ever was, because there's so much sophistication in the products that, especially when these teenagers are jumping over brands a lot of the time, it's counterproductive and the products are working against each other, and it's a huge subject.
Speaker 1:Yeah, huge. There's all sorts of different skin conditions eczema, psoriasis, acne what others would you put in that?
Speaker 2:Bitterligo. Yeah, there's so many and a lot of them are. We've been talking about autoimmune and we've also been talking about how autoimmune conditions are on the rise. That's very interesting because my two people in my family are celiac and both people and I get rain oats actually, and I got it when I was pregnant with Lily and I wasn't very well and I got pneumonia and then. So it seems to me very much it's linked to stress. My mother ate bread and cakes her whole life and then my dad got Alzheimer's and my mom became celiac. So I am the same as my nephew.
Speaker 2:He was. I think he was doing incredibly well with his exams and I guess he got a lot of pressure around the fact that he was an ASTAR student and, um, then he started to feel not very well and he became celiac. So I think you know a lot of these things are there and our stress is obviously increasing and then we're getting more autoimmune. There are systems to be one that people can maybe get patches of eczema in areas and they're not sure that it actually is. That's right, and you know, another way we're seeing that actually and this is a different part of our conversation, I'm sure is where the skin barrier is being, you know, taken down from potentially a retinoid. Or even, you know a lot of women just using retinols, not even at the teenage level. They're starting to get things like eczema.
Speaker 1:So that's quite a good place to start with retinols, because I had no idea what they are were are still don't really know what they are. I was given a free sample of it was a drunk elephant, one of their retinols, and you know the tiny little pots.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Got a free sample and I'd sort of heard about this brand and I thought, oh, give that a go. And I slapped the whole lot on my face, not knowing what it was. And then and I've never, thankfully, I'm very blessed haven't really had any skin problems. And about five days later my face got really red and then just started peeling, or my skin peeling off, and I said, oh my Lord, what's happened? And I didn't associate it with the cream. And then someone said have you started using a new cream? I said no, no, I did use this sample. And then I Googled it. I was like is this one? They're like oh, that's retinol. You can't just slap that all over your face. So I'm now terrified of it. What is retinol?
Speaker 2:There's so many forms of retinol, retinols and so many levels in which they're in the marketplace and basically the form in which you can get it over the counter is very popular at the moment for speeding up cell renewal and so obviously, as women are getting older, the idea is we're getting maybe, more sun damage and we're letting our you know, we want our skin to look more youthful, so this is a very potentially good way of speeding up that cell renewal and getting the skin to look a lot smoother and younger.
Speaker 2:The downside is, well, you would keep speeding up these cells and you're taking away the natural microbiome of the skin and by doing that, the skin becomes because I guess that's our like it's like a protection, isn't it? The natural protection that's there, whether it's good and bad bacteria, but like the bacteria we have in our gut. So the link to the most important part of that, I think, is the microbiome of the skin and that protective layer that's there for a reason doing what it should do, and we're taking it away. It's just another thing that's in the marketplace that suddenly has become very popular, like we have this one C and then we have you know it's just another thing coming every time, because I guess around that as well, a brand needs to have.
Speaker 2:you know, this is the latest pop word, this is the latest thing you know, so there's a lot of that involved in it as well. But I guess the more scary side of that is where it's being prescribed for very young people, where their bodies are still growing and their skin is still you know, they're just evolving and they're being prescribed something that's much stronger as a retina. You know the retinoid family. I don't feel it's fair to completely slam retinols retinols, but it's not because they can work really well for people, but it really does depend on the amount and it depends on your skin. So what does it actually?
Speaker 1:do so when I put it on and then my skin peeled off and obviously I use too much. So because your skin naturally dead skin cells falling off all the time, renewing all the time, right, so that's a natural process. So it's kind of interfering in that natural process and accelerating it and accelerating it. And what's retinol made from? What is it from?
Speaker 2:They're all retinoid vitamin A derived Right, okay. So basically that's the nature of all of them, and then there's different levels of right, the retinols that are out there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there's weaker ones, and then there's, did you say, some people have prescribed them so much stronger, so yes, so very much.
Speaker 2:A teen combination will be a retinoid. So obviously the same, this family of retinoids, but not as strong, as I can't go back to the team or when we're hitting there, yeah, but they. The first kind of port of call for acne will be benzyl peroxide, which is basically like hydrogen peroxide to them, which is a leaching agent. And then you'll have the retinoids. So you're speeding up the cells moving on, guessing, so they're not hanging around, they're moving quickly. But and then you're also doing this sort of bleaching agent which is completely anti. So you've got everything antibacterial.
Speaker 2:But at the bottom line of that, you are literally stripping everything out of the skin. So the idea is, the sebum doesn't really have a chance to get going. The more you try and take the sebum away, the more it's going to increase. It's like it's almost counterproductive. The secret is to keep doing all these different. I believe is to work in a much more holistic way and be looking at the root cause. We have such high expectation of skincare. You know it's not ever going to be able to be the only thing and you've got to work on all the areas of health in order to have your skin, which is mean. This is very much your area and it's so important and I think that we've had an absolute misunderstanding between the how important nutrition is to actually our skin and I'm so excited that you are endorsing this area and looking at teen health, because it's hugely overlooked. I think Completely overlooked.
Speaker 1:So if you take, so if you are in that situation and you're in a GP surgery and you've got your distressed teen are there, I mean it's very difficult in those situations, but like when you know girls get taken and it's like, well, here to take the pill, I will solve everything. So the topic which we're covering on the podcast in detail what can, what questions can they ask or do? Would you go step further and say, actually, don't go down that road until you've tried other avenues?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing I would look at is nutrition, at hormonal balance, because it's all coming from there. All the breakouts I see it's all being driven by hormones and, as the hard thing for teenagers is, they want especially in their environment now, they want it fast and they want it solved. But you need to play the longer game. Look for first one, nutritional hormonal support. I'd get a regular skincare regime going on. Every single teen I've seen they've got a medallion products and most of them are counterproductive. They're working against each other and actually my best advice would be get the simplest regime you can. I'm making sure you're cleansing morning and night. And for boys, often they might need to do that onto their backs and things like that as well. When kids are left alone to do their thing, they're Googling something, they buy it, then they've got a certain thing which is drying it out. Then they dry it out even more. Then it creates more sebum.
Speaker 2:There are certain products that can be really helpful, but I would stick to a natural foam cleanser, something that is targeted towards breakouts, but not something with too many chemicals in. So I'd try to stay away from alcohol, silicones, and I work with. A few products that I really like. Are there brands you recommend? Quite a few. I really like Skin Genius. It's a very small brand. Yeah, I like sporting small brands.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I've known Julia for about five years. She's the founder and she's worked tirelessly. She saw something on Dragon's Den last night that looked quite interesting, I know.
Speaker 1:I know her face. It's interesting and I thought I really like the idea of what she's. She's based in Brighton. Yeah, and I was thinking I must reach out to her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's great. Jasmine. And then I work with another product, iloganic Emma's product, bisou. I'd say that's great for very young teens. She doesn't even have a moisturizer. She doesn't think a teenage skin even needs a moisturizer. And I think as well as this there's the age group of the teens we're talking about, so there'd be different brands that I would recommend. So if I was going into talk to girls in year six, five and six, seven, you know, because they're all, that's where I've been asked to go now it's not year eight or nine.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's year six.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because year six are watching what year seven and eight are doing, and then I would think the things like spots and stripes as well, yeah, and I think for all of those, I like I've always loved small indie brands yeah, and I think supporting them is key. And I found another one recently. It's a French one called 6630. It's a men's organic skincare brand and I'm just trialling that at the moment because I really like the idea of what they're doing and I'm always on the lookout for new stuff. So one of the things that we do at 360 is the whole part of this is to have unbiased product advice. Otherwise, what I'm doing doesn't hold any value anymore, and then I'm just somebody's brand in door.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And the other thing I think is really interesting is you know how the spot stickers came out, and they were very much. Everyone thought I was a fad and actually the hydrocolloid that's in there is a wound healing agent. Actually they are so good. And I think that the nice thing about using those is you're not taking out the whole area of skin, You're just putting it on the area where you've got the problem. That makes sense. Not that it's a problem, but the spot yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:For a child, you know, for a teenager it's a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they're better ones than others, or they're things to avoid and stick with.
Speaker 2:Well, for me I would just go for the ones that are 100% hydrocolloid. Hydrocolloid there's things where they've got the salig acid in it. There's other ones where they've got tea tree oil in this, but I would stay with the pure. Just that. One of my daughters she's suffering quite a bit with her skin and she puts them on and I can see a difference in her skin from them. I think it's taking all these little steps together to make a much bigger result. I think for me I would just keep everything as basic as possible. Old fashioned.
Speaker 1:I'd go old fashioned. Old fashioned, yeah, soap, kind of soap water, and then what Moisturiser, and then if they're using one.
Speaker 2:It needs to be a light moisturizer for a young skin, something that's got the minimal amount of ingredients possible, which is why I think keeping things naturally formed is better.
Speaker 2:So a gentle product, a product without too many nasties in, without too many chemicals in, and then lots of brands towards teens have a spot sort of treatment like calming gel and I know both of the ones that we talked about they have that and then you can put the gel on. Equally, you can take it a little on with you and if you feel a spot coming up during the day but I'd say that's probably for skin that isn't an acne point, because when the skin's got acne on it, if you're a girl, you're going to be using it a lot more cover potentially, maybe not, maybe yes, but if you need to take makeup off, you might have to use. Maybe some wet cotton pads are quite a good idea. I quite like using. I mean you can use a flannel, but like a nice muslin like, rather than a harsh. For me it's all about being gentle with that skin and I think that what I see is just so many things that are so harsh and that's also just to mark in there.
Speaker 2:if somebody has started that journey with benzoyl peroxide and retinoid that they need some TLC they everything's quite dry at that point as well that they will be needing some extra. Like those soothing gels will be really nice on the skin and helpful. So having extra moisturiser I know lots of girls I've seen have come in saying that they've just that literally almost had to carry moisturiser around with them. So just that in itself is telling you how messed up it is for your normal skin. I mean, we don't even you know, in in my fifties I don't have to carry my moisturiser around with me. So that's what you're basically doing to the skin. Sometimes it's just genetic stone, you know it's, just it's not lucky.
Speaker 2:I have two daughters, one's nearly 16 and her skin is almost clear as anything, and my 12 year old skin has broken out quite a lot. Why is that? You know it's, and so it's. It could be many factors, but I do think there was definitely external things that come in to. I mean, if you think about skin being the largest organ in our body and our, you know you see everything in faces and skin. I mean, I face it here. But I definitely think our diet can help. I'm massive fan of.
Speaker 2:I'm almost in that place now where the more I know about food and chemicals and what we're putting in our body, the harder it's getting for me to go into the supermarket and actually buy anything, even fish, goushons or something like that. I've got some breadcrumbs. I'm thinking where's the breadcrumbs coming from and where's the? You know and I know that's probably not the easiest place to be in, but we cook at home from scratch as much as we can. Now we're making our own granola where. You know, I'm checking labels on everything because I'm utterly convinced that the food is. You know, I've got that Italian background. My food is love.
Speaker 1:What are the common things? You see? Are there any sort of common factors in nutrition, whether there's a deficiency or something in the diet that can make things worse, or does it really vary?
Speaker 2:I mean, of all the teenagers I've seen since I've started like this particular area of work, they're all so different and that's the most valuable piece of this Most of them aren't really taking any supplements at all. I'm suggesting them immediately as to say we've got to start looking at where this lies. But they just don't have the same interest level and I can remember what you know what it was like. But how do you? This is a question back, I guess how do we get their attention? So that is it, that you show them the end game of saying that's what you want, that's how you get there, because they want these things, they want their skin to look good, but the secret is over here in the nutritional side, not necessarily on the skincare side. That's not. That's where we're going to sort of deal with all the problems that are coming from the fact that we haven't straightened that bit out with it.
Speaker 2:But I'm seeing, maybe, kids that don't like fish a lot. So I mean, omega oils couldn't be more important. A lot of them take too much sugar. There's too much sugar everywhere chocolate, sugar, sweet snacks. A lot of them are fussy eaters and the thing I found with any teens that I've been working with is I'm very gentle, especially on girls. I don't know why I haven't seen more girls than boys at the moment, but that you know anything else in life we can give up right. We can say I'm not going to drink anymore, I'm not going to drink Coca Cola, but we have to eat to survive. So my biggest worry, having girls, has always been that and I said because I've got two girls, I don't have any boys. So I probably have the same worries with other boys, but I never wanted them to have a bad relationship with food.
Speaker 2:It's my fear and it's such a complex subject and not my area of expertise, but I know that it's so important and I have so much value. I love food and I love going to the supermarket and when I'm abroad I'm either in a supermarket or a pharmacy Because I love nothing more than being in France and being in the French pharmacies. But encouraging children to take that, like you know, when you feel congruent with everything you're doing, so you get up, you go for a run, you have a smoothie, you eat a healthy lunch, you feel good, you know your skin feels better, you feel you sleep well, you know it's getting that. It's so important that. And then, equally in the negative way, you know you have a day where you feel sluggish because you've not eaten the right way and they all kind of like that. That's like a domino effect.
Speaker 2:So the things I see really is in balance of what we're eating, and that goes with the territory of being teenagers, I mean, and I know schools try really hard with food. But that's quite difficult as well. And you know I said I said mind come back and sometimes I'm really enjoyed what they've got. Days they do, and then the other days they say we've held on and I haven't got a snack in the car.
Speaker 1:It's like yeah they haven't eaten nothing all day yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's like, yeah, what are you doing? We've got, you know, we've got a long journey home, I'm not geared up for this, and they're like still hungry. And actually that also leads me to how important it is to stabilize that sugar during the day. And I keep going on messing protein, breakfast protein you know, but because I can really see when they're kind of hangry you know, they've lost it and they need that stability.
Speaker 2:So the problem is really, the discussion is just about teenagers. Young teenagers were more like talking like tweens, not even 14, 15, 16 year olds. It's more like 10, 11 and 12. So this generation elsewhere, which was all new to me, and they're only one born after 2010. So they, who are quite active, were very active on TikTok and how they're using these virtual experiences with each other.
Speaker 2:So they all sit and they all. So it's a world. It's like they're showing their products like that Wow, look, I've got this one. So then they're using them to get ready together and they're doing all this like they're doing their skincare together. This has become like a trend. And then the products around that. There's the clueless. Of course they are still. I mean, they're seeing it. They're sophisticated beauty buyers, but they don't know what they're buying and they don't understand the potential damage those products can be doing. And you know. Equally, I think it's an area where we need to be careful how we're dealing with them, because it's not their fault that they are in that place, that they were allowed on TikTok. It's impossible to police the tech all the time. I've got girls asking me between college and you know, 14, 15.
Speaker 1:But I, you know, to be fair, I don't even know what. I asked you early what retinol is? I don't know. I slept all over my face. I literally don't have a clue. So collagen, I mean, yeah, and the problem is, as you know, that you get products that start trending Exactly so then all the brands jump on it with okay, and literally you know if anyone knows about e-commerce and SEO, search engine optimization you have a thing called keywords, which is what are people searching for the most. And then you get, you know, trends that emerge, and then brands will have people watching these, you know, paying millions of pounds to know what are these, what are these kind of key trends, and then they'll jump on it. And then it becomes a self kind of fulfilling machine where it's like retinols, the thing, or collagen, is a great example Vitamin C vitamin.
Speaker 1:C, vitamin C, vitamin C, and I don't understand why I need to put vitamin C on my face to the point where, well, it doesn't really interest me and I just think I don't really know what it's for. I don't think I probably need that, so I'm not going to put that on my face. But you can understand why young girls are buying stuff clueless because I think most adults are clueless. They just think, oh, you know, packaging's nice. Yeah, just why these brands invest so much in their packaging.
Speaker 2:It's all the packaging, because you buy it on the packaging, that's how I generally buy stuff.
Speaker 2:It would go back to that thing of education all the time. For me is that there's not. Where are you going to get the good education from? Because even often if you go for a facial, they've got brands that they want to sell. You're in this awful situation all the time where there's brands that people want to sell, so it's hard to want. And often when you're in a spa situation, of course they're a therapist, they know what they're doing and they're using brands that are correct for your skin, but again it's a brand. How you work your way through this market now is blows my mind.
Speaker 1:Well, facialists are only apart from ones that develop their own products, obviously, but a lot of them are just spewing out what the brand reps have told them. They don't really.
Speaker 2:But this is the other problem. Everywhere, wherever you go, you go to a makeup counter and it just depends who you've got on the day whether you're going to get. I mean, I've gone before and I've said I'm looking at concealers and they put them on my eye and I'm like I look more tired than before because they haven't understood. They don't even have that. They don't understand the products or their skin. They don't understand how to cover, so no slamming everybody here, because there's lots of good people that do stuff, but the problem is really trying to get great advice.
Speaker 2:It's a problem for smaller brands, which is why I love small brands, because they don't have that powerful voice.
Speaker 1:They can't get shelf space if they do.
Speaker 2:It sits there because no one's telling them why to use it, and skincare especially is a huge investment of money. It's massive. People spend thousands. Yeah 500 for an average. Do you know what the average Prestige, if you want to spend.
Speaker 2:For a woman or a high prestige beauty brand, just looking for 500 for the range, and then how do you know if it's going to work or not for your skin? So it's hard to get samples and it's hard to know if it's going to work. Equally, I think that going and jumping between brands can be really difficult, and that's what these teenagers are doing. It's the worst part of what the teenagers are doing. They build all these different pots of different things and they're all doing different jobs and not understanding what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Because the skincare smoothies are thing, isn't it Exactly when they mix all different things together and back to the packaging point. That is why Drunk Elephant, in my opinion, has become so popular, because of the packaging and that sort of mechanism where you can squeeze it out and then you can put the different things in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they've got the bronzing jobs and that's why they like it.
Speaker 1:But you can see why I think and I can see why they like it. So yeah, to go back to, I don't blame the brand, I don't blame the children. In fact, there's kind of nobody to blame.
Speaker 2:It's just a collection of different things that have come together, but this generation are, you know, like you know, one of my daughters is right in that space as a 12 year old.
Speaker 1:When we spoke, you made a really good and interesting point around makeup. Yes, Because I think a lot of teens and it kind of makes sense I told and I know this is difficult for boys as well, because there are male makeup brands- oh, and really good ones too, which I can recommend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but saying to them don't wear makeup because that's the worst thing you can do with your skin right now. And actually you don't entirely agree with that position. I know I really don't agree with that. So what? Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:What, yeah, I think I can understand, after you've had a treatment, for example, where you might have just say, had a facial where you've maybe broken the skin a bit and you've you know it's exposed and you've maybe exfoliated, etc. Etc. That you might say don't wear any makeup this evening because you might potentially get makeup going into areas where you need to sort of raw skin. Yeah, it opened up. You know, I'm really like sort of open the skin. It's a very interesting dilemma that you can have. Like people will be quite happy to go and do all those things we're talking about, like take the benzoyl peroxide and the retinol, but, yeah, something simple and actually, like concealing products really don't have that much in them. The most important thing is and obviously this came from years ago when formulations were way, way, way less advanced than they are now. So we're talking 20, 30 years ago where, say, for example, when we were teenagers, you were told yeah, don't do that, it's going to block your skin, Block your pores.
Speaker 2:Block your pores, yeah, but the most important word from that to look for in the ingredients list and often with young teen brands, something like Glossier, it will say non-commodogenic and that means it doesn't block your pores, so it's not right. Right, and will it actually save that on the Hopefully if you've got a brand that's transparent and a lot of them are becoming like that, and if it's not, on the actual physical inky list?
Speaker 1:Okay. So in case anyone's wondering what inky list means it's, I mean you could Google it, obviously, but it's effectively a kind of industry regulatory way of saying ingredients list and the things that have to be included in that ingredients list. So yeah, so when you're looking at a concealer, for example, and hopefully it would say non-commodogenic, commodogenic, commodogenic, it wouldn't say that on the inky list. It wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2:It would say that on the website. So you know when you go on the website and you'll find the product that you want and then you look down and it will have ingredients, and then often so like for example on Glossier or Starface, which are two brands that work towards teenagers they make a point of saying non-commodogenic, okay.
Speaker 2:It's one of their point, yes, and on Glossier, when you go down through the ingredients it starts to say non-commodogenic as all when it lists out all the different stuff and I've seen quite a few brands doing that. Now, right, and it's just a word to look out for, and if it's not there, you can ask the brands. They're very easy to write in, ask questions. As long as you're cleansing your face properly, taking the makeup off morning and night, not sleeping in your makeup and keeping a good regime, then I think cover can be really, really powerful for making. Then taking away to about 60% is great. That's a perfect solution, not a mask.
Speaker 1:And you're obviously very skilled, you know how to cover quite severe things, because I think you said to me also there's something very clever around the colors you use on different. Yes, and actually I mean I'm sure there are videos about this on TikTok for teens to be able to learn how to really effectively cover, rather than because I think they end up and it looks a bit cakey and then they're feeling more yes, you know, there are ways you can do it right. Oh, totally. How do they learn that? How do they learn?
Speaker 2:that One of the key parts of it is that cover is obviously high in pigment content. So if you think of all of it in terms of pigment, whereas say, for example, the foundation most women I know like a really sheer foundation, yeah, and that would be a really low pigment content, as with to cover something like a spot or anything that's sticking out and it's strong in color, same as a leg vein, or you have to have high cover, so like going from zero to 100. So for teenagers, sometimes what they get wrong is they don't use the sheer base first, they just put the cover on. And if they're often so, in Britain we can also have a lot of very, very pale skins and in those very pale skins, unfortunately there's nowhere to kind of hide with them in terms of it's quite hard for them to get the right color, and that's because a lot of brands the focus is if you've got to make 10 colors, you're going to go with the mass, go in the middle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and still, that area of very, very, very pale is still seen as quite small, but it actually maybe. For example, in England or many other places you've got a certain color scheme that might have more of that there and actually the very, very pale skin is the hardest cover, because the any color that's not quite right just stands out like a sore thumb. It's much easier in the kind of like all of these skin tones to get away with it. It's a little bit too light. So buying online is quite hard for them understanding which brands to look for of the paler tones and mixing a sort of like a thin base but not getting them to work. Something like I go back to Glossier again because they really do have a sort of super fine layer that you can use and mixing that with a concealer you're going to get a much better effect, so that I think it also just really helps their confidence to know it's covered.
Speaker 1:I know it's a horrible subject, but we have to talk about raricotane. Yes, I have my views on it, but I don't know an awful lot about it. But what? Feel free to speak about it, Because I know it's a controversial subject. What is your view on raricotane?
Speaker 2:Well, in the 360 clinics, if someone was going on to raricotane, we would not be taking care of them anymore because not because we don't want to, but because the skin at that point would be so fragile that there wouldn't be anything that we would be able to.
Speaker 2:Obviously, we could still offer support. I'd never stop supporting I stay in touch on WhatsApp with you know mother or father and child. But for me, I would totally understand if I was working with someone and they got to the point where they said Annabelle, I can't cope anymore and I want to go on to this. My advice at that point and then I'll go into what I think myself about would be I would say to the parent and I know we discussed and we were sharing information that in November the old data is now gone and there's new data. So I think that just in itself shows you how big and substantial this drug is, that there are now so many other parameters around taking it that have to be. They have to have tried everything else first, they have to have two different people signing off on it. There's all sorts of stuff now.
Speaker 1:They have to look into history, mental health.
Speaker 2:So they have to have tried these other things we've been talking about.
Speaker 1:So it's the last resort.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's been around long enough for us to really it's like vaping we don't know, we haven't got a clue what's coming from. That. It's totally different subject. But when I read now I've been doing a lot of reading recently about it the most worrying areas I mean you put it into a Google search and you start looking at the level of different side effects are mind blowing, terrifying.
Speaker 2:And when I ever mentioned the name, just you mentioned the name and people either come up with two things. One is people say suicidal depression. This depression is terrible, I'm never going to let anybody go on it and absolute fear. And the other way is people say, well, completely changed my life. So it brings out this very controversial response in people. For a start, there's a tipping point for a person where they're well being, but I also think there's some significant consequences which they can't say are just around the time when they're taking it and they are linked to depression. And is that depression going to go away afterwards? If you are, but they're monitoring that.
Speaker 2:There's also a lot more. I'm reading about sexual dysfunction, which is very worrying as well, kidney problems, white blood cell, red blood. I mean it goes on the list. The list just goes on and on for different things. So it's not just this idea that everything gets very, very dry for six months. There's substantial risks to later in life and that part of it. I think people need to be very, very, very well informed if they're thinking of taking it. A child now well, they're saying now, well, they're 16 can go to the GP by themselves and they can make their own decision. But I think that's why these new boundaries have been put in around it, that there has to have all these like checkoffs around prescribing it, and I just think in itself that tells you how powerful it is. So I think for me, I'll try everything before and I've said that- for the last few years, I would try every holistic way.
Speaker 2:Equally, if somebody was that desperate and really I think you'd have to be quite desperate and you'd have to have read all the side effects of it not sort of head in sand syndrome I would get in there and I would read everything. You. All you need to do is just to Google it and you go on the government website and you can actually just read the data for yourself. But I would read it and I would think about whether I was ready to take those risks and I'm completely aware that there's a whole whole wealth of people out there who have taken it, who it completely. But how does that work? How does it work that it completely stops? That? That's the thing for me that I still. What does it actually do? What?
Speaker 1:is it actually doing on a cellular level, on a cellular level.
Speaker 2:Yes, and what is that longer term effect? What's happened to those cells? What's happened in there? So my mind would always think I mean, I don't like taking anything.
Speaker 1:No, I don't, I've always hated taking anything.
Speaker 2:I never really took the pill, I don't, you know, and I find the holistic way of everything. It wouldn't be my option and I would fight everything I've got with my girls If they wanted to go on that. I would be very worried, and I wouldn't necessarily be worried for the six months when their skin was incredibly dry and fragile and all the other things that are going on. Then I'd be worried about what damage that might potentially have in my system.
Speaker 1:As with any of those things, is really properly informed consent Education. So don't just trust, actually. And look on the yellow card scheme yeah, the side effects that other people have reported A lot of people don't know about that and you go on and you see what other people have gone in and said has happened to those results. And I would always try and look at the root cause of things and can you address those. I'm sure people have tried everything and then it's an absolute last resort and that's understandable.
Speaker 2:It's an ever-changing thing, but if you can ride out the storm, play the long game. Work at the earliest point to start managing it. Facials invest in it and I know that's hard. And that's one thing. With the 360 facials we're doing, I'm attempting to make them as affordable as possible because it's a barrier to enter. I've made all the consultations, but literally covering the cost of the room, because I want to get the teenagers in, I want to educate them, I want to help so that they're not in that situation.
Speaker 1:So I think that's a lovely place to end. Where can people find you? We'll obviously put it in all the notes and everything, but where?
Speaker 2:Well, at the moment we're in Cobham in Surrey, where I've started this, wanting to be face-to-face, probably just because everybody's so virtual. But I realize that we're going to be online by next month. We will be online and we'll be doing virtual consultations, which I think will be fantastic, because I can see enough, even on a picture, to know what I'm dealing with. And then I love the idea that we're giving solutions into, out, even over to and I don't know many places they're doing that where they're saying right, this is what you need nutritional support, this is where you need hormonal support, this is what you need on skincare. And then you know what, let's have a look at your makeup fun as well. Let's look at your makeup bag and for boys as well, this is how you're going to cover it and no one's going to see it. So that's our plan and love it, thank you. Thank you for having me, thank you.