.jpg)
The Mel Lawson Show
I'm Mel Lawson, mum of 3, Founder and CEO of Bare Biology (a UK supplement brand). Basically, we talk about life. From psychology and health to self-development and spirituality, and much more. We have experts, we have fascinating guests, and we talk in a very open and honest way. We share our vulnerabilities and hope to entertain and inspire you, maybe make you laugh, and possibly help you experience some ‘aha’ moments along the way.
The Mel Lawson Show
Say The Hard Thing | The Benefits Of "Over Communicating" | The Mel Lawson Show
Your voice is a tool. Are you using it?
In this episode, Liv and I delve into a quote I read from James Clear, author of Atomic Habits , on over communication…
“If you wait to reply because you don’t have an answer yet (or because you don’t want to share bad news), the other party often ends up making assumptions about what the delayed reply might mean. Silence frustrates and confuses people. Better to communicate early and often.” - James Clear
Biting your tongue isn’t the best thing to do.
Being vague or not responding at all can bring about the very thing you’re trying to avoid. That awkward, icky vibe. Or worse yet, an argument.
Saying the hard thing you’re putting off can lead to deeper connections and clearer understanding.
We’ll share real-life scenarios where over communication has made life easier after the “I wish the ground would swallow me up” conversation.
This is your sign to say the thing you think you can’t say.
Melanie.
This episode is sponsored by my family-owned UK supplement company Bare Biology.
Hi, welcome back. We are talking today about over-communicating, which I will explain what that means and that's not a term that I have invented, that comes from someone else the benefits of being very, very clear, not trying to mind-read people and being very honest in work, in relationships, in life in general. And, yeah, we have some practical tips as well on how to put that into practice. So hello again Back on the pod. I want to call this episode the Benefits of Over-Communicating, and I'll explain what I mean by that. And it covers quite a lot of things, yeah, and one being not thinking we can mind read, because that's where a lot of things go wrong. It was a quote that I read from james clear, who wrote atomic habits. He also has a great newsletter and he said it's way better to over communicate than just leave people to assume things.
Speaker 1:So, for example, you receive an email, they ask you a question, and you don't know the answer. The normal response would be to think, oh, I don't know the answer to that, I'll come back to that, and you don't reply. Or they've asked you, can you do this on this date? And you think, well, I need to check that out. Or I'm not sure, and you don't reply. So your lack of response could mean anything to the other person, so they could be thinking, oh, they don't want to, they don't want to do it, or they don't like me, or I've done something to annoy them. Why are they ignoring me? Which is the mind reading piece. So the best thing to do and I know we talk about this a lot at work is just send a very quick reply which says I need to check my diary, I'll get back to you, or I don't have the answer, but I'll find it and you basically send a holding email that recognizes the contact and it might seem too much, but actually it stops the other person imagining what's going on and getting themselves into all different scenarios in their heads but also on. You know. I don't know if you've ever had this, but we've had things like this where you message a friend hey, I've got tickets to such and such, or you know fancy coming and they don't reply. And you know that if it's on whatsapp, you know they've read it and for whatever reason, they haven't replied. But if it goes on a bit too long, you start thinking, oh, you know, yeah, well, that's rude, or well, they don't like me, or or have I done something to annoy them? And then you start spiraling making up all this stuff in your head where it's. It's just they've forgotten to reply, or they were going to check the diary, or you know, some people are, you know, just not very good at replying, for whatever reason. I think also over.
Speaker 1:Communicating also means being extremely clear about your expectations or what you want, and I don't think that Brits in particular very good at this, and I think you know those sort of 90s movies where Hugh Grant would play a sort of bumbling Brit in America, yeah, and he'd sort so waffle and not quite get to the point and sort of it's all a bit, it's all a bit loose. You could sort of interpret it how you like. What I'm saying. That doesn't work generally and I think we think we're being polite.
Speaker 1:Um, because I don't want to be too assertive, I don't want to be too demanding that's interesting and with things like builders, I think it's a classic example whereas you go well, I kind of want it, you know a bit like this and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, and they haven't got. They don't know what you mean because either you've been really vague, or their idea of I want this to look really classy. It's completely different to your idea. And then they do the thing and then you go, oh, that's not what I wanted. And then you're like, oh, I can't really tell them, and then you hate the thing they've done. Then you start resenting them and then they, you know, and it just very quickly. So that's what I mean by over communicating and not mind reading, and I think it's a really interesting one. In relationships, work, supplier relationships with well builders is a really good example.
Speaker 2:Any relationship, any relationship, um yeah yeah, a lot was coming up when you were speaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like I think it's also, communication is sometimes very vulnerable, so it depends what you're doing it in yes, but I think that I definitely related to my friends, haven't responded straight away and I aspire and think if I said something, have I done something. Do they not want to talk to me anymore? Actually, I've just got their own stuff happening and I have to manage my inner voice. I actually see that as a clue now as to where something I might need to work on in terms of, like, feeling secure in a friendship or something like why am I thinking I've upset them, like what is that? Yeah, so there's that side of things.
Speaker 2:But also just like communicating that if somebody I know she was on the other foot I've been, I've received a text, sometimes that's been like, do you want to come to this thing? And I'm thinking I don't actually really want to go to that thing. And then I've sat on it for a bit because I'm thinking how do I now communicate my boundary and be vulnerable and say I actually don't really want to go? Yeah, and I'm worried about upsetting you. So then there's also I've definitely been on the other side where I haven't communicated something. I maybe, yeah, sweeped around and then be like, oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't. They'll maybe chase and I'll say, oh, so sorry, I didn't remember to get back to you. I've now got this thing. I've double booked. I'll make an excuse and I get out of having to communicate what.
Speaker 2:I actually wanted to communicate. Yeah, so I think, although we can mind read, it's normally the other person is almost mind reading about how you're going to respond to maybe what they might reply. It's like very complicated and complex, yeah of, and I completely agree that over communicating is the way to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not easy. No, not by any means. No, and often, like you say, we don't say what we want to say because of the fear of how the other person will receive it. Yeah, and sometimes they don't receive it.
Speaker 1:Well, another piece about over-communicating is saying things that need to be said yeah and you think, oh, that's really, oh, it's awkward, oh, I don't say that, so you don't. And you think, oh, you know, hopefully it'll be all right and they'll, you know, somehow it'll all be fine and it never is. It's never fine and what happens is is you gradually get more and more kind of resentful. They then start picking up on your vibes, potentially, yeah, and then it generally ends really badly because you didn't want to say the one hard thing that you should have said beginning, and then it would have probably been fine.
Speaker 2:And well, they would have known, sometimes people just yeah, don't realize, that's how you feel.
Speaker 1:So yeah they have to be told yeah, and that is very difficult, but I've learned several situations throughout my life where it's it's so difficult to say the thing that needs to be said, but it never ends well if you don't say it and generally you bring about the very thing you were fearing at the beginning, when it was easier to say something, and then it's kind of often it's the relationships get so broken that you can't fix it.
Speaker 2:No, and that definitely relates like in work or personal life, like with friends, if I haven't spoken about something right away and then I've let it, and then the resentment builds up and they keep doing the same thing and then eventually it becomes this bigger thing. And then you're like, why not just say something in the beginning? Or why did I say anything at all? Sometimes is how I feel. If it's come become that big that why didn't I just carry on, like have a hold in the resentment? Sometimes it feels easier, yeah, to do that. But I think you're right. The payoff of actually communicating properly at the beginning, I've learned is is amazing, if you can. Just it's a bit uncomfortable, yeah, it's horrible, but then it's like you don't have to hold. That resentment is actually a horrible thing to have to sit with um, or even anxiety.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe if you're not communicating something, it can cause your anxiety because you're thinking how do I say this thing? Or what will this person think if I say this thing? Like there's lots of different emotions that can sit underneath as to why you're not.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, and you don't want to. You know you worry about hurting their feelings or you know, denting their confidence, or yeah, there is all sorts of very good reasons, but generally I don't know. You know, when you've had it with friends is, I think, often then what happens, is you just sort of drift, you sort of stop, you basically sort of cut off contact gradually yeah, and that's what's happened in the past.
Speaker 2:Yeah is I've gone. I don't want to have this conversation. I'm just going to start to sort the word ghost it comes to mind. I'm just going to start ghosting the relationship now because I don't know. I don't know how to handle this. Yeah, whereas recently I've been much more upfront. If something's upset me or I don't agree with something, or and I'm not sitting there saying that I never do that I want them to do the same to me. So normally I, when we've had these more open conversations, I said look, I'm not perfect. I want you to be able to feel like you can also do this with me. Yeah, I want to build a friendship where we can do that. Yeah, so it takes the other person to be willing, because they might. If you start over communicating, some people are going to be like I don't know how to deal with this, you being up front.
Speaker 2:I like surface level friendships. No, I don't want to know the other stuff, like let's just have the small talk and then I move on.
Speaker 2:But if something needs to be said, it needs to be said yeah and I think the example of last week is perfect yeah, so after our first podcast recording, sat down on a Friday for a meeting, I was on a high. I was like that was great, how are you feeling? And you were like feeling a bit shit, yeah. But if you hadn't have said I'm feeling a bit like, yeah, I didn't feel well, yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it didn't feel well, yeah, I think I had some, I don't, I might have gone oh my god, does she think the podcast didn't go well?
Speaker 2:does she think that, yeah, did I do something wrong? Does she? Is she not happy with some of it? And actually it was completely unrelated. You didn't feel well and you were just up front and said I just feel a bit shit, not really sure why I was going on. Yeah, and I was like okay, great, because you could have easily gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fine, let's just get on with the meeting, and then I would have been like sitting there thinking cause.
Speaker 2:I think it's human nature to do that. I don't think we can stop that. You know that little spiral you get of like cause. I think if you're a conscientious person or just care about the other person and I obviously as your employee, if something is happening like a podcast or a big project, I want you to be happy. So I would imagine that my head would spiral if you went up front of something's gone wrong somewhere and she's not happy with something.
Speaker 1:So if you're up front, it does definitely help with with that, yeah, and that's a culture we try to foster at work, isn't it that it's much better because we try to hide these things? I don't really know why. You know you try to hide that you don't feel very well, or you haven't slept well, or you're just feeling a bit depressed. You don't really know why, or whatever. You've had some. You know morning often with me it's some drama with one of my kids, or bad morning, whatever. Yeah, so we just say actually I'm feeling quite stressed today or you know, I don't feel great, and then everybody knows yeah and it's not like a like, oh, let's get really down.
Speaker 1:It's just. This is kind of where I'm at. So if I'm not super chirpy or I seem a bit flat, it's not because I hate you all no, which is what? I'm thinking about one of you. You know you seem quiet and down or something, and then I think, oh, is it work thing? You know what's going on, but it's it's always just on the stage generally, just something else so, and if it is work, we've learned to communicate it like over time.
Speaker 2:So it's, I think it when you were saying I wonder why we do that like hiding. It is quite vulnerable, to be honest. That's what we're talking about is honesty, yeah, and actually a lot of the time if someone says how are you? I think even saying anything other than fine is seen as over communicating to some people. Yeah, because they're like I didn't actually ask, but yeah, like because in, in, especially in the uk.
Speaker 1:So you're right. It's like saying hi, how you feel? Yeah, it's like saying hi.
Speaker 2:So actually by you even saying had a bit of a shit morning. We all love that in the team. We're like tell us and we want to know and help. Vice versa, you also ask us and actually mean it. But, like in the wider society, I think if you were to say I've had a bit of a shit morning, I'm feeling a bit down, people were going, I don't know what to do with that. Okay, don't really and move on. Yeah, but I think as long as you're comfortable with I've said my place now but I think it's different situations, isn't it as well?
Speaker 1:if someone I don't know asks me that I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna go, yeah, fine, thanks, and just you know I'm not gonna get into it. But if it's with people who could misinterpret your you know energy or body language, because I knew when we had that call that you were gonna pick up, that I was, yeah, quite flat, yeah, and a bit low energy, and I thought that you might think, oh, she didn't like the podcast.
Speaker 2:You know I've cocked up, or I don't actually want to do it, which I'm really enjoying this recording guys, so I didn't want that to happen yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:And then I was on yeah and I, I loved it and I was on the high it's. Just I woke up not feeling very well the next day, so so it just knit.
Speaker 2:That's the thing it just yeah, you can move on, not have to worry, and I think the honesty part is what it feels uncomfortable. It actually brings so much more ease, yeah, into your life it does. And also over communicating in terms of my job, like creatively, I've learned like that people will interpret your communication different ways, and I find email really difficult to get across what I'm envisioning. I have to give like visual, imagining something like this and also something like this, and I'll annotate bits, because I can't. If I just put a sentence saying design me a postcard that looks something like this, people are all gonna have our own interpretations of stuff. So I think over communicating is also important in like those aspects.
Speaker 2:Like you said, the builders yeah, like just not assuming. I think we assume that people can read our minds as well sometimes and that's like a big no one can. No one can read what's going on up here. No, um, and so I think the biggest part of that is some people can look absolutely fine and be literally having the worst day inside and we wouldn't even know. So it's like even if you aren't picking up on energy, somebody could look happy and you could assume they're having a great time. They might not be, so we can't ever know what's going on in each other's heads.
Speaker 1:Really no no, exactly I tell you. Where this doesn't apply, though, is that thing that we women do, which we shouldn't do, which is explaining ourselves when we don't need to explain ourselves. That is not over communicating, that is just. You don't need to tell somebody why you can't make that meeting for example yeah you know, women do that a lot. Yeah, oh, I can't do that because I've got this and this and then it's fine. No, just I can't do it. You don't need to explain it, and I think we do.
Speaker 2:We can do that yeah, women and almost overcompensate for yeah and just too much, like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:You just say no, you don't need to give reasons or excuses. Um, yeah, yeah, but in other aspects, being very, very clear, checking understanding and also just in, I I'm amazed, you know, even with my husband we've been married for how long, a long time 21, 22 years, I think, was that awful? I've lost it. It's because we just had a new year. I'm really confused 21. And there's still misinterpretations. Yeah, and you'd think we know each other so well. There's still misinterpretations. Yeah, and you'd think we know each other so well. And unless you're very clear and ask very specific questions and checking understanding, things can go really wrong and things can be avoided.
Speaker 2:I think a question you ask a lot actually, which I think is a good one is what do you mean by that as well? So when someone says something and you're thinking, oh, I want to understand exactly what they mean by that sentence or phrase, something that I learned in my coaching when I was trained to be a coach is that you can hear somebody say something, so say, if you say, oh, um, so what do you think about this, and they're like I don't care, you could easily take that as, oh, I don't care. It might also mean, oh, I don't care because I don't actually know, or I don't want to go there. You've pushed me too far there I don't want to talk about I don't care. Like that I don't care could mean so many different things to different people. Or I don't know what, what do they know? They don't know nothing.
Speaker 2:So it's like those things as well that actually everybody says one thing we're all experiencing in this room, this conversation completely differently. Yeah, we perceive everything differently, so that's something to keep in mind. When we're trying to mind read is like we're doing that from our lens, so we can never know what's going on with somebody else. We have to be really clear with, like asking people what do you want from this situation or how are you feeling about this, and actually hearing it from them, rather than trying to put stuff into because we're never gonna know. Um, but I just think it's really interesting that people perceive stuff so differently, even though it's the same word or the same phrase.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and people can take it so differently yeah, um, because we're very complex yeah, and it is good to ask yeah, what do you mean by that? Yeah, and another one I've used when, when it's still not really clear is can you say it again, but in a different way? Yeah, like, use different words, yeah, but say the same thing, but say it in a different way. And then it makes them think about, because sometimes you just think I still don't understand yeah, and it's just like culturally.
Speaker 2:You were saying, like for British we're quite like rambly and we don't get to the point. But like you've lived in Spain, like was it different? Like is communication? They're very different, they're very direct, yeah, yeah so like it's almost like it also depends on the person you're speaking to and they're, because some people were like, oh, that person came across across really abrasive, but for them it's just the way of communicating, yeah, so we're all scared so they get people who get to the point.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of south africans, yeah, who I think can rub people up the wrong way, because they're just very to the straight, to the point and it's just, and there's no kind of wrapping it and stuff, um, and some people just think, oh, how rude or you know so abrasive and aggressive, and I just I actually prefer it. I think I know what you're saying and I understand you. Yeah, I'm very clear. Yeah, um, I find, yeah, maybe because I grew up in Spain where they're very direct, yeah, you know, and if you're pissing them off, you're pissing me off, you know but also it's so.
Speaker 2:It actually is so refreshing, though, when people are just honest with how they're feeling, or so much easier, especially if it's communicated in a way, because I don't think over communicating needs to be. I think we worry about hurting people's feelings, and sometimes we have to say things that are difficult, that are probably going to hurt somebody, but it as long as it's expressed with like listen, it's not a bit like I'm just telling you this is how I feel about the situation, or you know, I disagree with you, but it doesn't have to be a big you know argument or anything.
Speaker 1:If you've communicated properly, it can actually be quite a nice conversation eventually, because you just yeah if it's done, you know, with kindness, yeah, and empathy and just respect and respect, yeah, then it doesn't have to be your personal attack, no, it's yeah, and I also just find it.
Speaker 2:I like it when people disagree with me. I don't want to be around loads of people that don't, but like I want people different opinions, or oh, have you thought about things this way? Or like that's how we grow as people and I've had to definitely train this muscle of like saying hard things. It's not a simple thing. I'm not going to sit here and pretend it is.
Speaker 1:No, it's really hard and I'm I's tricky. I hate it.
Speaker 2:I can over communicate. When it's nice things, oh yeah, a thousand percent, yeah. But when it's something that's a bit particularly if something is brought up that I have to battle against that old people pleasing tendency that I used to have, which is just keep everything calm and everything yeah. I don't want to do that anymore, but it definitely comes into my psyche if I'm trying to have a difficult conversation with someone about something, because it isn't nice.
Speaker 1:No, but I do feel better once I've communicated it and you do need to pick your battles and sometimes it's not worth it. You know, if it's a stranger or something, I don't tell you again. They might have just had a really shit day, you know, and doesn't you know it's not worth getting agitated and getting in an argument with.
Speaker 2:I think it's people that you're building relationships with or see daily and communicate with daily. That's where it needs to be put into practice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think at work is really important yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're a manager, but also you know as an employee. You know because also, if your boss doesn't know what's going on or what you're thinking, or if you're not sure what they really want and you haven't asked them, yeah, I think there's so many situations at work where things are actually quite simple. We just need an honest chat about stuff.
Speaker 2:Definitely, um yeah, and we've worked together for many years now, yeah, and we've like had little hurdles that we've overcome with communication and it's like we now have quite, actually very good communication. I think I've worked in a another company or for anybody that where the communication has been like this, because it's always been leave your shit at the door, come in and be a robot, do your thing and then go. But of course, we're human, so it's not as simple as that. No, and we've learned actually just by saying that that actually gets rid of a lot of the internal. I've got to hide this, I've got to hide this. Then you can't do your job properly if you're doing that. So if we're just happy to come in and say, feeling a bit shit, all right, is there anything I can do? No good, carry on like it's just.
Speaker 1:It just keeps things moving and, yeah, just keep people up to date or just where to understand where you're at. So another good thing that I don't always do but try to do is, you know, you get home from a busy day and you kind of say to your partner I've had quite a full-on day and I don't have a lot left. That's a really good point. So I don't feel very chatty. Um, yeah, and I've got better with my delivery because I can be quite spanish and blunt in some of the ways I talk, because it's like you know, how was your day? I don't really feel like talking.
Speaker 1:Okay, and my son does that because I've taught him to do that, because I said look rather than get in the car. When I pick you up and you just grunt at me and I'm trying to ask you annoying parent questions did you have a good day? Yeah, all that stuff. Just say, molly, I'm really tired. I haven't had the best day, but a bit of a headache. Do you mind if we don't talk? And I go okay, yeah, that's fair enough. Yeah, yeah, so that actually also helps and you're thinking, oh, what's wrong with him?
Speaker 2:and then he gets agitated and then but also what's coming to mind there is you're respecting him. For that, there'll be a lot of people that are like I'm your mom, talk to me, right? Yeah, not a lot, and they wouldn't want that for them. So it's almost like respecting each other's yeah, communication, and when there's a the no is no, like like okay, fine, sometimes you just don't feel like talking. You don't feel like talking, and that's fine too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you just want to eat your dinner and clear away and go and watch some. You know, that's where the holding.
Speaker 2:It reminds me of the holding emails. It's like I don't have space to give this my full attention right now. I'm not going to be able to over communicate. I haven't got time. I'm gonna send a holding, yeah, and then I'll come back to you with actually what I want, yeah, rather than just leaving it yeah yeah, just yeah, not getting anything.
Speaker 2:Or just set firing something off, yeah, which is almost like a your son grunting. It reminds you of the same thing, like just get these people off my back and then you haven't communicated what you actually want to communicate. If you had a bit more space yeah, I do refer to things.
Speaker 1:I'm like I've put that person a holding pattern like a yeah, um, air traffic controller. You know, you sort of see, especially when you've got kids to juggle as well and all that stuff, and and it's just literally you've got all these airplanes flying around, you've got to kind of land them safely and you just, and the air traffic control I'm liking, I'm going to go with this analogy here, but they're constantly communicating with the airplane. Pilots are still thinking, when sue from air traffic control gonna give me my landing slot? All right, you know. So it's that, just keep them in a holding pattern until you can land them safely. I like that.
Speaker 2:So hopefully we've given a bit of things to think about yeah, and I think just look at areas in your life where you can start to practice over communicating, yeah, and maybe leave them in the comments below or give examples of where you've mind read and it's got, because I'm really interested by that stuff, totally and weird like blips and friendships where your friends thought, you've thought one thing yeah, being weird.
Speaker 1:And then you're like, why are they being weird? And then you're a bit weird with them because, like they're being weird, it's like why are you being weird it? And then you're a bit weird with them because, like they're being weird, it's like why are you being weird? It's like because you're being weird. Well, you started being weird first. No, I didn't, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:It's just that it ends up being this whole big thing that didn't need to be there. Yeah, and just practice being practice over communicating, yeah.
Speaker 1:And when someone asks you how you actually are, how you feel about something, just be honest yeah, unless it's someone genuinely interested, because then it's just not working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if that's yeah, yeah, some poor shop. Yeah, like persistent. It's just imagining lots of people now going into coffee shops and being like, yeah, I've got diarrhea. Would be quite helpful, though, if you're running back and forth from a day one day, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, people try and hide joking aside yeah, you think they've got some other sort of problem and actually they're.
Speaker 2:You know, they've got irritable bowel yeah yeah that sounds like the right time to wrap this yeah, we'll finish.
Speaker 1:Finish on the finish on the yeah.
Speaker 2:Brilliant, We'll have a poo episode coming up. Actually, we do with an expert.
Speaker 1:I'm very excited. I need to listen to that Functional medicine practitioner. Yeah, really knows her stuff. Yep, yeah, that's going to be brilliant. I can't wait. That'll be exciting. All right, cool, thanks for being on again. Thanks.