S2 Ep2. Uncovering History: A Conversation with Engineer and Amateur Historian Melbourne Garber

In this enlightening episode of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, host Aderonke Bademosi Wilson sits down with Melbourne Garber, an engineer, amateur historian, and grandfather. Mel shares his fascinating career in engineering which includes becoming deeply involved in the history of enslaved Africans, particularly focusing on his work related to the African Burial Ground in New York City. This episode explores themes of heritage, the importance of historical memory, and the joy of lifelong learning.

Aderonke talks with Mel, an engineer with a passion for history, who expresses his excitement to share his story. He recounts how his involvement in the African Burial Ground project sparked his interest in the history of enslaved Africans and discusses the significance of this burial ground in Manhattan and its memorialization.

As a native of Sierra Leone, Mel shares how his family's background and his mother's leadership in the Krio Descendants Union influenced his historical pursuits. He reveals that he is in the early stages of writing a book about the history of Krios, discussing the unique perspective he brings as an engineer and how he aims to connect historical dots that others may overlook.

Throughout his career, Mel has worked on significant projects across four continents, including the British Library in London, the New Jersey Performing Arts Center, the Ark of Return at the United Nations Plaza, and the iconic Macy's shopping bag structure in New York City.

Mel shares three surprising facts about himself: he has a passion for collecting obscure information that often comes in handy; he enjoys creating words from license plate letters while driving; and he has a fascination with atoms and their repelling nature.

Mel proudly discusses becoming a Fellow of three professional engineering organizations across three continents, marking a pinnacle achievement in his career. Join Aderonke and Mel in this thought-provoking conversation that delves into history, personal growth, and the importance of understanding our past. This episode encourages listeners to explore their own histories and recognize the value of lifelong learning.

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Transcript

Aderonke (00:01.12)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson. My guest on today's show is Melbourne Garber. Mel is an engineer, amateur historian, grandfather. Mel, welcome to the show.

Melbourne Garber (00:34.208)

Thank you so much, Aderonke. I've been looking forward to this.

Aderonke (00:37.804)

And so let's get started immediately. Tell me about, tell me about being an amateur historian.

Melbourne Garber (00:40.863)

Okay.

Melbourne Garber (00:45.023)

Well, you know, being an amateur historian, I'm obviously not a professional historian. I'm an engineer by profession. But probably about 20 years ago, I got involved in a project in New York City called the African Burial Ground. And as I was working on that project, I got to learn quite a bit about, one, fact that there were

actually enslaved Africans in New York City. And then there was this whole burial ground that, you know, that they were buried in. And there was a whole issue about a building that was being built and they had uncovered some of these remains and that had stopped the construction. And long and short of it, they actually went ahead with the building after they had exhumed all the...

bones that were there and took those away for testing and they allocated a piece of land adjacent to it for a memorial. And then I worked on the memorial. So that was like in 1989, 1990. And I got to work on this project from around 2004, 2005. And I think that really is what started picking my interest in

sort of history of enslaved Africans primarily from the Sierra Leone region. I'm from Sierra Leone. And it sort of coincided with my mother at the time being, she was the president of an organization called the Creole Descendants Union. the Creole people primarily consist of descendants of enslaved Africans who

had returned to Africa from the West and some who had been captured being taken to the Americas for slavery, but the ships were intercepted after the British had abolished the slave trade. So the Crewe descendants, I've always been, and I know I'm a Crewe, and I've sort of been tangentially involved, but around that time I also got a bit involved in it and that also grew into, by the late 2000s.

Melbourne Garber (03:07.412)

organization started forming here in the US. There was a parent organization in Sierra Leone that my mom was the president of. And so once we got, once I got involved in it, started reading more about the history. And I really just got captivated by it, which is very ironic for me because going through school, to school history was definitely one of my favorite subjects.

I was always in the science sort of science field. now a lot of my peers, my colleagues, my friends in the community, they all recognize that I know so much about this history that I don't want to say I'm considered one of the top historians in the Sierra Leone community with that because I think I might be pushing it. But I think a lot of folks do know that I know a lot about the history.

Aderonke (04:05.752)

So two questions. First of all, where is the burial ground in New York that you mentioned? Whereabouts in the city is that?

Melbourne Garber (04:07.234)

So.

Melbourne Garber (04:13.078)

Mm-hmm.

it's down in Manhattan, downtown. It's next to the federal building of Broadway. I think it's Broadway and Reed Street. So there's an interpretive center in the federal building that was built at the time when they uncovered all these remains. So there's an interpretive center in there. And then the burial ground is next to it.

I was the engineer for the design of the burial ground.

Aderonke (04:52.684)

And then my second question, given your expertise as a historian, have you or are you considering writing a book?

Melbourne Garber (05:02.69)

Yes, I am actually. I have been told it's been for quite a number of years people are saying, well, you need to put this down on paper. You've got to write a book. And so I've started writing a book about the of the history of the creoles. It's still very early days, but

Yeah, it's going to take a while, but I felt I had to do it because I think the way I tell the history is maybe a bit different from, say, a professional historian who knows all the details can relate. I think being an engineer, also very logical and maybe a bit concise in

in saying things. yeah, so I'm hoping the book will also, you know, reveal a lot of stuff, which I think I, you know, as I've started doing my own research in writing the book, I'm coming up with things that are connecting some dots that people might not have ever connected. So yes, I'm looking to do that. It's probably going to take me another six to eight months to do, but yeah.

I'm working on the book.

Aderonke (06:27.79)

I look forward to reading it once it's published. Congratulations.

Melbourne Garber (06:32.19)

Okay.

Aderonke (06:35.416)

So Mal, I'd like our listeners to learn a little more about you. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Melbourne Garber (06:47.998)

Okay, so as I said, I also already prepared some responses. so as I said, I'm a structural engineer with over 40 years of experience. And I have worked on numerous projects in actually four continents, in Asia, in Europe, in America, and in Africa. I consider the following projects some of the most important and well-known projects that I have worked on.

One is the British Library in London. The other is the Macy's shopping bag, which is on the corner of Broadway and 34th Street, which is always highlighted on when they have the Macy's Day Thanksgiving parade. It's like a shopping bag right at the corner. I did the structure to support it. So even though it's a small project, but it's probably my most widely known or most widely seen project.

As I said, another project that I'm very proud of is called the New Jersey Performing Arts Center, which is in Newark in New Jersey, because it really opened up Newark as a theater center for lot of people, because Newark had always been considered not necessarily destitute, but a city with a lot of crime and stuff. it now has a lot of

A lot of artists and musicians go there and do plays and concerts and that type of thing. As I said, another of my projects is the African Burial Ground, which is in Manhattan. And then I guess I'll call it a sister project to that is the Ark of Return.

which is at the United Nations Plaza. The Ark of Return was commissioned to memorialize the transatlantic slave trade and slavery. So it's at the UN Plaza. And then the final one is the Bonce Island Slave Fort in Sierra Leone. sorry. Yeah. So the slave fort is.

Melbourne Garber (09:12.156)

The Ruins of the Slave Forts on Bonds Island. Bonds Island is one of the most important slave trading posts for the British. And its history is very deep. I can spend forever doing that. But that was just the first thing that responds to your question. So those are some of the projects I've worked on. I'm also an avid reader of novels and some historical books.

especially as it relates to the mid 18th to mid 19th centuries. And I also am one of these people who like to amass, sometimes I call it useless information, but obscure pieces of information, which sometimes come in useful. So I know you were going to ask for example. for example, the most common, longest

Aderonke (09:59.566)

Of course I'm going to ask. Give me some obscure.

Melbourne Garber (10:09.374)

English word is anti-disestablishmentarianism. And then the other thing is that because atoms, for example, repel each other,

When we sit down or when we hit an object, we're not exactly sitting down. We're actually being repelled by the atoms of what we're sitting on, repelling us. But they're so close together and so infinitesimal that we just feel we're sitting on it. We're not even sitting. We're actually being repelled by it. So that's just some of these bits of information that is like.

Yeah, really? Yeah. So I always have some obscure thing. And you never know when it comes in useful. I remember once reading something about something to do with Mongolia. And I ended up going to a restaurant that had Mongolian food. And I was chatting. And the guy goes, how do you know this? go, it's just one of these things that I read. And it was like, I read it.

Maybe two or three weeks before, I didn't really know I was going. it's just, I think when you read a lot, you always find little nuggets of information that are always useful. And then the third thing that I know a lot of people probably don't know and will be surprised is I have a habit of, when I'm driving, when there's cars in front of me or passing by me,

I look at the license plate of the cars and if it's got letters, well, they typically have letters and numbers. I try to make up words with the letters on the license plate as the car is passing. I try to do it in the order that the letters are or sometimes just try and get, just make a word with the letters. And it's just one of these things I do all the time. And then if there's numbers, I always want to add up.

Melbourne Garber (12:25.6)

the sum of those numbers as the car is passing. sometimes once I get the numbers, sometimes I try to see what are the combination of those numbers I can do to just get the same sum. So it's just one of these things that I do. And I almost do it reflexively when I'm driving. So if I'm parked, if I'm a stop sign and there's a few cars in front of me, the car that's in front.

I look at the letters and say, what word can I make with these letters? I I obviously add additional letters to it to come up with a word. But I always want to try and do it in the sequence of the letters of the license plate. And it's just one of these. One of these things that I think it keeps my brain active. That's OK.

Aderonke (12:59.66)

Yes, yes.

Aderonke (13:10.606)

I like that.

Yeah, actually I like that. I like that a lot. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So Mel, can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Melbourne Garber (13:23.233)

Yes.

Melbourne Garber (13:30.41)

well, yes. I would say over the last four years, I became a fellow of three professional engineering organizations on three different continents. So I became a fellow of the Institution of Structural Engineers in the UK, which was like my parents' organization.

because I started working in the UK. I then also became a fellow of the Sierra Leone Institute of Engineers. And then I became a fellow of the American Society of Civil Engineers. So yeah, so I'm very proud of achieving those because that's sort of the pinnacle of my professional career being recognized as a fellow in these institutions.

So yeah, so those are, I'm very proud of those.

Aderonke (14:34.754)

Congratulations on your achievement. What do you need to do in order to become a fellow?

Melbourne Garber (14:36.076)

Thank you.

Melbourne Garber (14:43.018)

So well, it's time that I'll do the Institution of Social Engineers, which is the one in the UK, which is the one I first aspired to be a member of and then to be a fellow. And basically, have to have obviously had quite a number of years of experience in your profession. And then you basically have to submit the body of work that you've done, the projects you've worked on.

you know, what made it challenging, what made it unique, how do you think you contributed uniquely to achieving, you know, the project success or the project completion. And you then submit all that information. have to have a couple of, at least a couple of sponsors within the organization that would, you know, help to...

review your document and then there's a body that goes and reviews what you've contributed or what you've submitted and then make a determination that yes, we think the work you've done warrants being recognized as such. for the UK one, I was really, really chuffed because that's...

know, growing up, I always wanted to be an engineer. So I went to college, university, my engineering. I actually did a combined honors degree in both civil engineering and mathematics. But I always wanted to be an engineer. And then I ended up working for one of the top engineering firms in the UK at the time I started called Arup.

For most people, I tell them that this was the firm that did the engineering for the Sydney Opera House. it was, yes. So that's where I got my start. And even though I didn't start in engineering, but I kept telling them, I want to be an engineer. And then after a couple of years working in another group, I did start doing my engineering. And then I actually, after I'd worked for about four years,

Melbourne Garber (17:04.978)

of five years, I applied to be a member of this institution of structural engineers. And it's a very tough exam. It's a seven hour exam. And you only have to choose one question. So it's basically you have to design something totally. So the first day I did it, and you really have to know what you're doing in order to, you know, it's not a multiple choice question.

you know, OK, I'm going to design, the concrete question or the steel question or whatever it is. And you really need to focus on that. The first time I went in, I went against what I knew I wanted to do. And I didn't make it. So then the next year, I focused and said, this is the question I'm going to do. It doesn't matter what it is. I know this material. I'll work with it. And then I became a member. So that was really great.

I've been a member ever since. And then after a few years, I came to America. And I actually became a proctor for that exam. Because it's a seven hour. And I tell people, it's a seven hour exam. It's one question. But you go through the whole process of engineering. they'll tell you, this is the project. This is what we need to do.

You've got to come up with a couple of schemes. got to have, you have to then do some numbers to determine the member sizes. need to write a letter. You've got to do some drawings. And so it was a whole process. So I was very pleased as my career progressed when in, I guess it was in 2019, I said, you know what, I need to apply.

to be a fellow because I had one of my other colleagues who had already become fellows. And I think I have done quite a number of projects because you keep thinking all these things are really, only the top most guys get it. But it's like, I looked at what I'd done. I've done quite a bit. So I submitted my application.

Melbourne Garber (19:24.626)

And yes, I was accepted and I became a fellow of that one. And then for the one in Sierra Leone as well, I had done some work in, I've done some work in Sierra Leone. So for me, was also personal to become a member of the institutes in Sierra Leone. And actually the funny thing is, the interesting thing, I would say it's funny, the interesting thing was that when I did my,

When I became a fellow of the Institute of Structural Engineers in England, one of my colleagues who we both started work at the same time, she was the immediate past president of the institution. And we had just been talking, you know, and we've kept in touch over the years. And I said, you know what, I think I need to submit, you know, for the fellowship.

You should, you know, and so she was one of my sponsors. So maybe that also helped, but you know, we worked together before and we kept in touch. So she knows what I had been doing, but you still have to submit stuff to show that you're doing stuff. And then, so she was there. And then for the Sperling Institute of Engineers,

When I submitted my application, the person who was the president of the Seoul University of Engineers was also a female. And she was an engineer who I had mentored when she got out of college and came to England to do engineering. And I mentored her to be able to be accepted in the engineering institution in England.

And so she was also delighted that I said, yeah, I want to, I was applying for my fellowship. So she was my sponsor there as well. it was, like, you never know when you do a good deed, you don't know when it comes back to bless you. And then the final one was the American Society of Civil Engineers. That one was one I also wanted to be a member of. And I ended up, you know, having some sponsors who,

Melbourne Garber (21:46.914)

I've for a while. I've done some work with the institution. I've been a committee member for a while. So yeah. So I'm very proud of those three achievements in the last few years.

Aderonke (22:01.528)

So again, congratulations. That speaks to all of the work that you've done over the years. Please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Melbourne Garber (22:03.222)

Thank you.

Melbourne Garber (22:19.838)

OK, so I'll...

There was a year, must have been at least.

Melbourne Garber (22:29.986)

12, 14 years ago, I had gone home to Sierra Leone for the Christmas vacation. And one of the things we did, I've been since I left school, I've been very passionate about my high school. Because for me, it's the school that gave me the foundation that I needed to pursue.

the career that I decided to choose. So I've been an alumni member, know, alumni association since the mid 80s. we've done things, raised funds to help the school to maintain its educational excellence. Over the years, know, education standards have dropped in Sierra Leone and things got really difficult and then

know, so you had the Civil War and, you know, a lot of things happened. But it must have been, I think it was maybe 2011 or 2012, I went and one of the things we had decided to do and we had started doing was to give sort of teachers like a Christmas bonus. And so that year we went and

you know, we went to do this presentation. And it was not just the teachers. We felt all the staff in the school should get a bonus. And for me, that particular year, when we gave sort of one of the cleaners, lady who maybe helps clean the bathrooms and does some work in the school.

When we gave her that bonus, she was so overcome. Because the amount that we gave wasn't a lot of money in terms of actual dollars. But it was more than her salary. And she was so overcome and overwhelmed and with tears in her eyes. It brought tears to my eyes as well. And for me, it was then I understood what they said.

Melbourne Garber (24:55.318)

you know, it's the, it is better to give than to receive. And, and I always remember that, that, that she was, she was just so thankful for that little bonus because, you know, I'm sure she would, she'd be able to have a good Christmas with her family and that type of thing. So, so, you know, over the years we've done, we've kept on giving teachers and

stuff that happened but for me that was that was the one time it really got to me you know and and i'm glad we do we do that type of thing so

Aderonke (25:38.422)

And is that practice still continued? you still continue?

Melbourne Garber (25:41.12)

We try to do it every year. mean, yes, we're still counting. We have different alumni associations in the US and the UK. And so every Christmas time, we try to raise funds. Part of our fundraising is to say, OK, we should give these teachers. And they all look forward to it. The whole school is like, another year I went and the moment we walked in, like,

The teachers were like the happiest people, the happiest folks. And yeah, so we still try to do it. I don't think we've done it every year, but I think we've almost, we've tried to do it almost every year.

Aderonke (26:20.886)

And so what were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Melbourne Garber (26:27.106)

Well, for me, think it's compassion for those not having opportunities that I have had and recognizing that I have been very fortunate in my life and career. And I tend to also have a very optimistic disposition. Over the years, because of my career, I've worked on

different types of projects in different communities. And I really have come to appreciate, you know, how making a difference in the lives of people is critically important, you know. You you build a school in an area and, you know, it not just helps the kid, it helps the parents, you know, you, or just like I said with the New Jersey Performing Arts Center.

It's literally transformed that area of Newark to bring in a lot more diversity and people there to enjoy the arts. Before that, a lot of people would have to go to New York to go see top quality plays or something or musicians or concerts. But now they can do it in New Jersey. I think I'm also a very good listener.

So over the years, I've had the opportunity to listen to the stories of friends or other variety of people. And a lot of times, it makes me realize, one, how very fortunate I am to have had the opportunity that I have, and two, the lives of some of these.

other folks that you just don't understand and it gives you a better appreciation. I'll give you a classic story of a friend of my colleague, a workmate of mine who had, you know, he had joined us and was working as a drafts person in our farm, you know, and he came in to do drafting.

Melbourne Garber (28:51.074)

And then once he joined the firm and started working, he then realized there's more you could do. So once he contacted me, he was telling me, he had come to America when he was young, maybe nine or 10. And he had come with his sister and I think his mom. the father had, so the father wasn't in his life for.

his formative years. And then we're working on it. I mean, now he's in his 30s or late 20s into his 30s. And he came to me. He says, my dad is coming over to America. And I don't even know if I want to see him. And so he just wanted my opinion. And I said, well, you know.

He's your dad. If it wasn't for him, you wouldn't be around. I go, maybe what you just need to do is just go see him. You can make a determination of whatever you want to do after you meet with him. Then he goes, will you come with me? I go, OK, I'll come. So we went, and we were driving. And this was in Brooklyn. His dad was staying with his sister.

And so we were going. And then we're driving through a particular neighborhood. And he goes, Mel, do you know why I wanted to be a drafter? I go, no. He goes, this is the street I used to live in. He goes, the only person who got up every morning to go to work was someone who was a draftsman for a company. So that's who I aspired to, because that's the only person I could see who had

a decent job. So that's what I aspired to. And then, of course, when he came and he saw that he could do more things. He's now an engineer. He went to college and did his engineering. But then we went and he went and he met with his father. And then he took me back and I got my transportation back.

Melbourne Garber (31:14.614)

The next year, he goes to me, Mel, I'm going to go on holiday to my dad in Cayman Islands. His dad was living in the Cayman Islands. And the next year, he was going to go spend some time with him. I go, well, this is it. You didn't really want to see him, but now you've developed this bond which you never would have had.

So some of these things, think, you have to be able to listen to people and relate to them. so I think that's what I would

Aderonke (31:56.728)

Thank you, Mel. Thank you for sharing that story. Can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Melbourne Garber (31:59.116)

Hmm.

Melbourne Garber (32:08.542)

OK. Yeah. Well, six years ago, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. I had done a biopsy, and then the urologist came and told me that they detected cancer cells in my prostate. And of course, that's really a life-changing situation.

So we discussed with them what the options were and said, well, right now it's small. We can monitor it. And then we monitored it. And after six months, I did some lab work and I did a PSA test and found out the PSA had gone up. And it goes, it's gone up quite a bit. So it goes, think we should treat this. So I was then sent to an oncologist who gave me different options. And then I.

I opted for radiation treatment, meant almost 40-something days every day going to get some low-level radiation treatment. So by 2019, I completed the treatment. so every year now, I go do my tests. Touchwood, there's no signs of cancer. My prostate, my PSA level is

way low, is what they want to hear. So that actually made me realize that because no one in my family had ever had that type of thing or aware of any of these types of cancer diseases, it didn't mean that one was immune. So it gave me another perspective in life that you really have to...

know, but reality can hit you in different ways and no one is immune. So, yeah.

Aderonke (34:16.046)

Thank you for sharing your story. You are listening to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast.

Welcome back to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Mal Garber. Mal, given the story that you've shared about having prostate cancer, what self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Melbourne Garber (34:51.458)

Well, think first and foremost, I I do my regular checkups. I do an annual checkup and have sort of intermediate visits to the doctor. They prescribe, of course, medication, which I try to take religiously.

And I also try to do things in moderation and to have a of healthy-ish lifestyle. I wouldn't say totally healthy, but healthy-ish lifestyle. I get energized and motivated when I'm imparting knowledge to others. I'm also a very sociable person.

in my Sierra Leone community, I attend a lot of activities and meet a lot of people. And that also gets me going. I do have to thank my wife, who keeps ensuring that I practice self-care. And even though sometimes I may say, I've told you to do this and you haven't done it. But I do listen and I do try.

Sometimes it's easy to be a couch potato. I think in the main, I've tried to keep myself not getting overweight. I do walk occasionally to keep fit. And I think I'm sort of active enough that I'm feeling good.

But one can always be healthier and do more stuff. I started going to the gym, but somehow I just think I'm not really a gym person. So I prefer to do my walking, but sometimes walking alone, you need a bit more motivation. So so it's just things like that. Yeah. I love to dance. I go to events. I love to dance. I have a friend of mine.

Melbourne Garber (37:16.962)

It's almost like my brother and you know, they know us, the two of us are somewhere, it's like, here they go again, you know, but it's, you know, it's good. It keeps one energized. So.

Aderonke (37:32.376)

Thank you, Mel. Thank you for sharing your self-care strategies. So how might you sharing, I'll repeat the question, how might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Melbourne Garber (37:39.106)

Mmm.

Melbourne Garber (37:54.85)

OK, so here's what I think. As I've said before, I've been very fortunate to work on some very key projects, like some of those that I mentioned before, the African burial ground in Manhattan, the Ark of Return of the UN, the preservation of the Bonce Island slave forts. There's also another project with the Irish Hunger Memorial in Manhattan, downtown Manhattan.

There's one called the Mashantucket Pequot Museum and Research Center. The Mashantucket Pequot is a Native American group that live in Connecticut. And I worked on this project in the 1990s. But it really opened my eyes to the reality of what some of the Native Americans went through, and especially them. they now have

casino and they're making a lot of money, but it was understanding the history behind them was very important. And it's funny because I recently just came back a couple of weeks ago from a conference in Montreal to do with preservation. And I got to learn a lot more about the first people and the problems.

the discussions and the challenges that they've had in Canada. A lot of people think, things are a lot better in Canada than in America, but they've had their own challenges, and they're still having them. So it was good to be able to.

find out and learn more about that type of thing. So again, I named these projects because they've given me an opportunity to follow my historical passion. And sharing my story about these structures and relating the history of our nation in Sierra Leone as it relates to the whole slave trading process has created an

Melbourne Garber (40:13.812)

appreciation of my efforts within my community. a lot of times, will have people say, Mel, can you come and give a talk about something here or some historical stuff? Or they always wanted me to be around and then say a few things. And initially, was I always used to get a bit tongue-tied.

You know, and speaking in public, as you may know, one of these things is the more you do it, the better you get. But it's still always getting going. it was funny. You know, one of these things. I found a word, I've forgotten what the word, the name of the word itself now. But it's a word that means missing, you know, like forgetting keywords when you're speaking in public.

that really throws you off. I've forgotten the exact word. I probably have it on my Facebook page. I found that the other day, and it was like, yes, this is a good word. I had some of friends go, wow, you nailed it. This is a word that we want to use. But yeah, I mean, I guess my community is part of who I am.

Melbourne Garber (41:43.394)

I'm always happy to share my passion and my interests and telling these stories. And I continue to find opportunities to tell these stories to a wider audience and hope to continue to do so more globally. In fact, another interesting.

Sorry, it's amazing how these things, as you say, create a ripple. There's a lady in Montana who wrote a book about my great uncle, my grandfather's brother. He was called ABC Merryman Labor. he was a Sierra Leonean who went to England and, you know,

went to study law, but he was always interested in writing and wrote a book about his time in Britain. it was called Britain Through African, Through Negro Spectacles. And it was a satirical take on the British. This is back in 19.

like 1910s, the early 1900s. But of course, Britain was an empire then. so making fun of them wasn't, they didn't take too kindly to it. So the book was actually banned. Anyway, this lady in Montana actually

did some research. she somehow came across his name, and she was fascinated and did this research and wrote a book about my grand uncle. And she had contacted folks in England who were family members. And then a friend of mine actually mentioned to her that, there's this guy in the US as well who is a relative. And she contacted me.

Melbourne Garber (43:58.482)

and we hit it off. I go, yeah, yeah, I go back, you know, and my mom being the matgack now of the family was, know. So she invited me to Montana. This must have been about four or five years ago before COVID. And they were having this book award and she had submitted her book for an award up in Montana in the High Plains area. So she said,

Would you be able to come? It would be nice to have a relative of this person. I of course I'll come. So I went to Montana. And it was really a great experience because we organized. I don't think I've been so busy on like a three or four day trip. I ended up, her husband is a lecturer. I ended up giving two talks to his classes. We were on the radio. And then.

I gave a presentation just about Sierra Leone and connection with America. And they did it in this little library bookstore. It was a bookstore. the lady who owns the bookstore was so taken. mean, the amount of people who turned up for my talk. The lady goes, this library, this bookstore has never been this full. But these people were so interested in the story.

When I finished, was like, we never knew any of this history or this story. And it was just amazing. So for me, was just really good. And then, of course, to cap it all, her book won the prize. So it was really great that I got autographed copies for my daughter, my mom, and my wife. So yeah. it's yeah.

It's just one of these things that I guess is.

Aderonke (45:59.456)

And I always say, you never know where a yes will lead you, right? The fact that you said yes and went there and got an opportunity to talk about.

Melbourne Garber (46:06.7)

Yeah. Yeah.

Melbourne Garber (46:12.371)

Exactly, Yeah.

Aderonke (46:15.436)

That's very exciting.

Melbourne Garber (46:17.41)

You

Aderonke (46:19.512)

So now what exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon and how do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Melbourne Garber (46:30.74)

OK, so as I just said, I recently attended a conference in Montreal where I met some Black Canadians who are also passionate about their heritage. And like me, their desire to preserve and promote their heritage has allowed us to come together now to promote our common heritage and connect with one another. So it's one of these things I'm really excited about that.

I found this avenue and I'll tell you when I went to this conference, they had this Black Heritage Gound Table. This is the first time they were having it at this type of conference. Black Heritage Gound Table, the Black Canadians. So a few of us from the US were there, we went. And there's very few Blacks in the heritage preservation field.

So anyway, were there. And they started speaking. And then one of the guy who was the moderator was explaining that he comes from Nova Scotia. And he was just telling his story and that his ancestors were from the Black loyalists who had fought on the side of the British and came to Canada.

And then how some of them had gone to Sierra Leone. And I'm sitting there smiling inwardly. thinking, OK. And then he spoke about the Maroons, who also came and then went to Sierra Leone. And I'm thinking, OK, he knows the history. This is a history that I am very passionate about. And he was talking, and I was biding my time. And then a couple of folks there who

almost derailed the meeting for a couple of white folks and almost derailed the meeting because what they felt was, know, like their point of view, they sort of wanted to make it the thrust of the meeting. you know, we had to basically say this is all Black Canadians and Black heritage for us to talk about our issues and stuff. So then I got up, go, I was speaking to one of my

Melbourne Garber (48:56.758)

committee members, I I think it's time for me to speak up. So I just got up and I said, he's called Graham. I said, hi Graham. I go, my name is Melbourne Garba. I said, I'm from Sierra Leone.

He came up to me and gave me a big hug. It was just like, wow. I go, yes, I know all this history. So we've developed this rapport. So I'm really excited about that. And we sort of want to have this sort of Black heritage by coalition. And we're going to reach out. I know one or two folks from the Caribbean as well. Because.

You know, the preservation of like a historical site and our common historical heritage has not ever sort of been told collectively. So, you know, we're hoping we can do something. There's going to be a conference in Halifax in Nova Scotia next year that I've said I need to go because this is one of the places I want to go because

A third of the black loyalists who left, who ended up in Nova Scotia, went to Sierra Leone. And I'm a descendant of the descendants of some of those folks, as well as some of the others. So I think it's important, especially because I know so much about the history. I know about what the problems they went through.

in Nova Scotia, and then some of them decided to leave. So I want to go see the place for myself. So I'm excited about doing that. I'm always excited about speaking more about this history. I'm going to go to Sierra Leone in April. Pretty, I wouldn't be there when you're there. But.

Melbourne Garber (51:04.138)

You know, I'm going for my school centenary, I've sort of, it's funny. I decided, you know, because I did work on the preservation of the Bonz Island Slave Fort, I thought, you know, once we finished our celebrations for the centenary, there wasn't really much more. And I sort of made this offer saying.

You know, if folks are interested, I'm going to organize a trip to the slave fort and tell the history. go because, you know, I'm not saying I'm the, I know the history better than anyone else, but I think I'm one of the, I've learned so much about the history that I can tell the story much more than some of the tour guides who go because I worked on it. I know the history.

And the response I've had is just been, it blew me away. You right now I have at least over 50 people who have said, we want to go. So I'm looking forward to letting them know the history. Because I think one of the things why it's also, so many people are interested is, it's not a history we're taught in school. You know, and in fact, one more thing I'll tell you.

Many years ago, I think it might have been like 2010. I had gone home and I was really into all this Bonce Island thing. And I remember my mother had come back. I was at home and she said, you know, I went to the radio station to talk about something. I saw the Minister of Tourism and he was talking about all this private company putting some money on Bonce Island. I go, they can't be having private company.

of mining company putting money on Bonz Island, I'm going to go see the minister. So I hot-footed it up to the ministry to go talk to the minister about it. And I have to say, he actually totally desired, because I had my talking points. And I went to see him and he goes, Mr. Kaba, good to see you. What can I do for you? And I was like, I come to talk about Bonz Island. He goes, that's, yeah. I re-chatted and I said,

Melbourne Garber (53:22.978)

I went to one of the best schools in Sierra Leone. I said, we were never taught that just up the river, 45 minutes, there's this place that is so historically important. And we just didn't know about it. And we really need to do this. And he said, well, we should talk about it. then about a year later, he passed on. And I made a promise that, you know,

I would do as long as I could, I would do whatever it took to preserve and stabilize this slave fort in Sierra Leone, if or nothing else, to honor this minister's passion for it. so I've been able to do this preservation stuff. I would not say it's a big feather in my cap. It's deeply personal thing.

I've been able to do that. So I'll leave it there. I can go on.

Aderonke (54:29.506)

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that and for sharing your passion, which I think is very evident about the history of Sierra Leone and the history of people who have been enslaved not just in Sierra Leone, but from Sierra Leone, but have been enslaved in other places. And so this leads me to the book recommendation. What book recommendation do you have?

Melbourne Garber (54:38.048)

Hmm.

Melbourne Garber (54:47.596)

Yeah.

Aderonke (54:58.56)

It can be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Melbourne Garber (55:05.036)

So there's two books, actually, I want to recommend. The first book is called Rough Crossings. And the author is called Simon Sharma, S-C-H-A-M-A. I think it's probably the most notable book that deals with

the history of the black loyalists and them becoming black lawyers, what led up to the War of Independence in America and them choosing the side of the British and how they ended up going to Nova Scotia and what they had to deal with, and then going to Sierra Leone. And he has.

What makes the book also very interesting is he identifies certain of these Black loyalists and follows their history from enslavement through to fighting, through to going, getting to New York and going to Nova Scotia and then leaving Nova Scotia, going to Sierra Leone and starting this fledgling experiment because that's what it was, experiments in settling these.

folks back in Africa. mean, and to me, it's always amazing that these folks ended up going back to a place where slavery was still occurring. And one of the things that, and so we call them the Nova Scotian settlers. One of the things that actually amazes me with that is that,

These Nova Scotian settlers ended up in Sierra Leone in 1792. In 1794, the French attacked the capital city. This town that was called Freetown, because they named it Freetown because they were free. But the French came, attacked it, and then went up the river and destroyed Bonds Island. So Bonds Island was just up the river.

Melbourne Garber (57:26.678)

from where these people came and settled as freed Africans. And they had to deal with some of the indigenous people who were still active in the slave trade. But then, Bonds Island was the major slave trading fort for the British. It got destroyed. And then by 1796, it was rebuilt again. And this time, it was rebuilt.

with the help of some of these Nova Scotian settlers. So it's the only slave fort. And that's why, for me, it's so important. Like the only slave fort that the ruins of which was built by freed slaves. I hate to call them slaves, but freed enslaved Africans. And so it has a history that is important to us, Krio people, as well. And then the other book.

I did mention this lady in Montana. Her book is called An African in Imperial London. And her name is Danelle Jones, D-A-N-E-L-L J-O-A Jones, Danelle Jones. And she wrote about the indomitable, the story of the indomitable ABC merriment labor. So that's my grand uncle. My mom was a laborer.

But his story is fascinating. I mean, it's a bit tragic towards the end, but it is a fascinating story. And yeah, I'm sort of very proud to be connected to him. I'd known about him, but didn't really know that much. And then I read her book, and she really delved into it. So those are the two books I would recommend. I I love reading, and there's a lot of novels and things that I

I love reading, but to name a couple of books, those are the two I would give you.

Aderonke (59:28.99)

And thank you. And I'll make sure that they're listed on the website where the link will be to this interview. And so finally, Mal, you've imparted some really great information and things that I, and I'm sure many of our listeners don't know.

Melbourne Garber (59:34.977)

Okay.

Melbourne Garber (59:40.203)

Good.

Aderonke (59:57.748)

Is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Melbourne Garber (01:00:01.799)

Well, I would like to thank you, actually, for giving me this opportunity to share my thoughts with you and hopefully to a wider audience. I would also like to thank my friend, my schoolmate, and my in-law, Rodney King, for recommending me to you. We've been friends since.

We both started our school in 1969, a high school. so we, you know, apart from diversion, conversion, you know, but right now we, you know, we're very close and we're very good friends and he's married to my cousin. but yeah, it's been a joy to do this. As I said, I like to, I really like to tell the story more.

especially about the historical connections. And I'll let you know when that book is ready.

Aderonke (01:01:06.264)

Yes, please do, please do. And I will add it to your book recommendations once it's been published. And so Mal, thank you. Thank you for your time today. And what I, the three appreciation nuggets that I'm taking away from our conversation, they're things that I had no idea about. And one of them,

Melbourne Garber (01:01:12.556)

Come on. Yeah.

Aderonke (01:01:32.57)

is the African burial ground in New York next to the federal building. And I will make it a mission of mine the next time I visit the city to actually go and look for it. So I'll be in contact with you to get the exact location. The comment that you made once about the bonus, the Christmas bonus that you give to

Melbourne Garber (01:01:37.111)

Mm.

Melbourne Garber (01:01:45.728)

That's fine, yes.

Aderonke (01:02:01.826)

the teachers at your school. And actually, before I talk about that, what is the name of your school? I don't think you mentioned it. What is it? Yes. Okay. And that's in Freetown.

Melbourne Garber (01:02:03.746)

Mmm.

Melbourne Garber (01:02:08.042)

yes. I didn't mention it. The school is called the Prince of Wales School. The Prince of Wales School, in fact, yeah, it was founded in 1925. So next year, 6th of April, it will turn 100. So we're descending on Freetown to celebrate our famous school's centenary. So we've been working.

I mean, so many committees with the school. Yeah, so it's the Prince of Wales School. want to, yeah, you'll hear about it.

Aderonke (01:02:44.832)

Okay, I look forward to learning about your 100th anniversary and the activities that you have planned. And so from the story that you shared about giving teachers and staff Christmas bonuses, your exact quote was, it's better to give than receive based on the overwhelming gratitude expressed by one of the cleaners to receiving her Christmas bonus.

Melbourne Garber (01:02:49.621)

Yes.

Melbourne Garber (01:02:53.227)

Okay.

Aderonke (01:03:14.534)

And my other takeaway is more general observation about your excitement and passion for history, for the history of Sierra Leone, the fact that you are writing a book, the fact that you do give talks and have shared your knowledge and continue to share your knowledge, I think is for me a great testament to something that you came by.

almost accidentally, you had something that you hadn't planned to do, but something that has become a significant part of your life. And so I want to recognize and actually congratulate you for stepping into it and making it a part of your life's mission. So thank you very much for sharing your story and for...

Melbourne Garber (01:03:43.682)

Hmm

Aderonke (01:04:11.606)

sharing your view and your passions.

Melbourne Garber (01:04:15.746)

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'll leave you with one. I had a friend of mine, an older engineer friend from Liberia. And I'll tell him this story. He passed away about three or four years ago. And we lived in New Jersey and we were very close. And he has some Sierra Leone roots, but we were very close and we'd always hang out. He was an engineer. But I remember a few years ago,

And I would tell him all this history, even some of the history of Liberia, that it was a challenge. I go, no, no, no. And goes, one day he looked at me. goes, you know what, Mel? He goes, engineering is your profession, but history is your passion. And I sat back, and I thought about it. And I always think about that. go, he's actually very perceptive.

in seeing that. am quite passionate about this system. So I'll keep on doing what I need to do to tell the story more. So thank you so much for having me on this podcast.

Aderonke (01:05:31.542)

And thank you so much for sharing. You have been listening to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter.