S2 Ep4. Bold Choices, Conscious Leadership: André Bright on Honoring Curiosity and Intuition

In this episode of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, Aderonke Bademosi Wilson welcomes André Bright, a dynamic and multifaceted individual who embodies curiosity, creativity, and compassion. With a diverse background spanning dance, architecture, and coaching, André offers a unique perspective on personal growth and transformation. As an ambivert, he reflects on the balance between his extroverted and introverted tendencies, revealing the ongoing journey of understanding and integrating these aspects of his personality.

One of the key themes André explores is his commitment to continuous self-improvement. He shares candidly about living with fear while still taking action—an insight that underscores the importance of perseverance and courage in the face of uncertainty. This mindset has served him well in both his personal and professional endeavors, including his recent achievement of co-facilitating a leadership workshop in Sierra Leone. André's experience in coaching also plays a pivotal role in his life, as he works to make a meaningful impact on his clients by helping them navigate their own journeys of growth. 

In addition to his professional achievements, André introduces the concept of André Days, which are dedicated self-care days without guilt. These moments of respite allow him to recharge and prioritize his well-being, a practice he believes is essential for maintaining balance. 

He also emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries, particularly the ability to say no without feeling the need to explain oneself. For André, this is a critical component of self-care and a vital step in ensuring that his energy and time are allocated wisely.

Another significant topic André touches on is the word he has chosen to guide his year: surrender. This concept, which he explains in depth, holds great meaning for him as he learns to release control and embrace the flow of life. His reflections on surrender provide valuable insights into letting go of resistance and trusting the process.

For those interested in exploring these themes further, Andre recommends two impactful books: The Surrender Experiment by Michael A. Singer and The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. Both texts resonate with the values of curiosity, self-exploration, and personal evolution that André champions.

https://www.abwilsonconsulting.com

https://abwilsonphotography.com

Transcript

Aderonke (00:01.167)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest today is Mr. André Bright. André is curious, creative, compassionate.

André , welcome to the show.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (00:33.314)

Thank you so much for having me, Aronke. It's a pleasure joining in as a guest today.

Aderonke (00:39.939)

And I'm so happy that you're here and I wanna talk about how we met, but that's gonna come a little later on, but I want you to tell me about your descriptors. Let's start with curious. What are you curious about?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (00:55.79)

I'm curious about life just in general. I think that's one of the reasons why as a coach it shows up a lot. But I'm the person who would ask the question that other people's probably wouldn't. I'm curious about people, I'm curious about the world, I'm curious about the future, past, all of it. I'm just curious as a person.

Aderonke (01:20.687)

Hmm. And where does this curiosity lead you? What kind of scenarios do you encounter as a result of your curiosity?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (01:29.654)

You know what, sometimes it gets me in trouble. That's where it leads me. But it leads me, I think it also leads me deeper into connections with people. So I think because I'm curious, I'll always find something I can connect with someone with. So usually on the surface, I might find someone who is completely different to me. But by the questions I'll ask, there's usually something I'll find which we can relate to. Plus it gives, if there's nothing at all,

It gives me a chance to learn something from other people. So I remember meeting someone who is really into motorbikes and I have no idea about motorbikes, but that was his world. So we connected because I just asked questions about motorbikes. I'd never had the opportunity. So I learned something and he got to express something he was passionate about. And then we connected over that.

Aderonke (02:21.745)

Hmm. And creative, tell me about that. What does that look like?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (02:27.768)

Creative in arts, so I'm a professional dancer. So I used to do the tours and music videos and things like that. And then I went into producing dance theater. So I had a show that I was touring and I took it to Sierra Leone and also in architecture as well. Because in architecture, you have to be very creative to be able to come up with a design that solves the problem.

of form and function. So in creativity, it's just an element of trying to create as well. So I like to write, I like to dance, I like to sing, anything that allows me to express myself creatively. like to, even in my coaching, I use creative activities to get into the bottom of things. So I'll get you up and about. Cause I find that sometimes you can't, words just aren't enough all the time.

So I find sometimes it might be a movement or a gesture that might express things better. So I use my creativity in all kinds of different ways.

Aderonke (03:38.609)

So I wanna go back to two words that you use, coaching and architecture. And tell me about how architecture fits into your life, first of all, and then related to coaching, if they're related indeed.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (03:54.102)

Yeah, so architecture, I did my masters in sustainable building design. So I've got a masters in that. And so that was my solid. That's my most recent solid career occupation and architecture. I've been in that field for over 10 years now. And so

That has been my staple in terms of coaching. That's relatively new actually. So over the last maybe two years, I did a qualification with the Academy of executive coaches and the International Coaching Federation and then just started looking for people to help. And initially they weren't related at all. They were completely different. But what I find is with the architecture and the dance, they show up in my coaching by

my analytical and my creative side. So I think the way I structure things and the way I look for simplification comes from my architecture side, that kind of left side of the brain, that logical form side, the function side. And then with the dance side, that means that I'm often happy to take risks and be malleable to whatever comes up in a conversation.

I'm okay to navigate completely different to what was planned. All that kind of stuff is from my dance side of things. So within a session, there'll be a little bit of both that I tap into.

Aderonke (05:29.805)

And what is sustainable building design? What does that mean?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (05:34.158)

yeah. So this is this is actually, you know, it's funny. I've been so passionate about coaching now. I almost forgot the passion I have for architecture. So I did my architecture undergrad at Loughborough Uni. Brilliant course, brilliant people. But there was one module that stood out for me, and that was sustainability. And there's environmental, social and economic elements of sustainability as the three pillars.

And for me, the social part was the bit that really caught my interest because we all know about the environmental part, you your carbon footprint and things like that. The economic part is making things affordable and you know, how much does it cost for the beginning to end of the life cycle? But the social part was something I hadn't heard of at that point. And it's really about how the person interacts with the environment. So what impact does the place you're in?

have on your mental health, your emotional health, that kind of thing. How can we design environments which relieve us of things like crime and stuff like that? And for me, it was really, really fascinating how we could create spaces which would improve on the wellness of the people who used it. So that for me is what really struck me about the sustainable building design.

And if you want it to be something that's gonna last, you also want it to be something that people are gonna wanna be in. And the best way to, even things like, for example, if you have a pitch black room, it's gonna affect your mood. Little things like that.

Aderonke (07:12.441)

Okay, and compassionate. How does compassion play out in your life?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (07:15.831)

Yes.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (07:19.958)

I think that actually comes from my mum. So my mum is an empath. She's, she's has this incredible skill to see through whatever masks people have and see into the core of the person. And she'll be able to walk over to someone she's never met before. And just within a few words, have them in tears and breaking down and getting vulnerable and all this kind of stuff. She really has an incredible skill for that. And I think from being around her.

is when I've harnessed the gift of caring. And I think in some of the environments I'm at with architecture or even dance, has, the person is at the center of it for me. So if someone's going through something, can I be compassionate with what they're experiencing? Can I show empathy? Can I show love in the way I design?

If I'm going to be building a, doing a design in a specific environment, do I care who is going to be using it? Because if it's a group of, you know, in the middle of the Sierra Leonean community, I might design it differently from if the people there are from, I don't know.

Alaska or something or Poland or something, you know, they might have different cultural differences They might have different interests and I think it goes back to my curiosity I'm curious about people and so because of that the compassion comes through and I really harness that through watching my mom at work

Aderonke (08:55.954)

Thank you. And so Andre, please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (09:06.604)

I like that last part that my friends would be surprised to learn. I really like that as a question. I am an ambivert. So I think most people who see me would assume I'm an extrovert, right? Because they, I'm usually the life of the party. When I walk into the room, as my name would suggest, I brighten the place up as it will be, right? But what I've learned about myself,

from living alone for three years is that my introvert side is just as strong. And nowadays I've really started to harness that. So not everyone will see that part. It comes with, I'll be happy to be in a festival with thousands of people and feed off that energy off stage. I remember there'll be moments when you finish a performance and there's thousands of people screaming at you and stuff. And you're like, yeah, I feel like I'm on the top of the world.

But then what often happens with artists is they'll go home and there's no one there and they struggle with that silence. Whereas me, that's where I also get a chance to shine. I really enjoy my own company. And I would say usually if I'm on my own, it's about seven or eight out of 10 in terms of enjoyment. So getting me out of my own space, you'd have to provide something incredible, right? So.

I guess that's one thing is I'm an ambivert. So ambiverts are able to balance between the two. Another thing that my friends may not know is that I am consciously trying to improve a lot. I think they assume that I am the finished product of me in a way because I've done so much work like.

But I really am trying consciously to improve each day. And a lot of the things that I say and do are not by accident. I think my intuition is something I've consciously learning about. Empathy is something I'm consciously learning about. Emotion and intelligence, I only really learned about maybe five years ago. And that was through a workshop someone did. And it really opened my mind up to what that would be. And I took that on as an academic

André Bright - Burnout Coach (11:29.39)

exercise to learn about emotional intelligence. So number one is that I am an ambivert. Number two is that I'm actively trying to improve all the time. And number three is that I'm scared a lot. I actually live with fear a lot, but I act despite the fear.

And I think what people see on the outside is someone who might be fearless. But I actually do have, I actually am scared of stuff. I have the same fears of everybody else. What will people think? What will people do? What will happen to me? What if this goes right? What if it goes wrong? What if I fail? What if I succeed? All those things happen as well. But it just doesn't stop me from taking action.

Aderonke (12:21.593)

Hmm, thank you. And I will say I've never heard the word ambivert. So I'm going to think about that word and see if it applies to me. Cause I enjoy being, you know, with people and I get energy from having really great encounters and doing workshops and all of that. But then I like quiet time. like, I could sit in my house for

André Bright - Burnout Coach (12:27.479)

Hmm

Aderonke (12:50.405)

hours and hours or even in my office and be here and time passes quickly. So maybe I need to investigate that word for myself.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (13:01.302)

Yeah, I found it many years ago. There's ambivert and omnivert and omniverts are one or the other at any one time, but they switch. But ambivert is kind of like in the moderate middle. You're able to have access to both at the same time. So I can be in a public space, but also find a corner.

Aderonke (13:23.217)

okay. I need to investigate both those words and decide which you've been applying to me. So thank you. Thank you for that. For giving me a new word to consider. actually two new words. So Andre, tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (13:27.511)

Thank

André Bright - Burnout Coach (13:44.928)

actually you were there. So we did a leadership workshop and I really am proud of that. think we did leadership excellence workshop in Sierra Leone at Hotel Bamoy. And for me, that was my first time using my coaching side and my facilitation side outside of the UK. I remember when I did it with the arts and I...

was involved in the National Storytelling Festival in Sierra Leone. I had a similar kind of feeling. It felt very outside of the comfort zone. We had only just met, you know, digitally. We hadn't met in person yet. And it was just this natural flowing of an idea that developed. And we didn't even know what the uptake might be, things like that. And then we delivered it it was just phenomenal. Like the people who came, the feedback.

the vendors, it was just a really great couple of days for me. And I remember reflecting afterwards, being really proud of that, that we delivered such a high level of training. And it felt so, I'm almost reluctant to say the word easy, but it just, there was this flow that was happening.

with it and it was just awesome for me.

Aderonke (15:17.195)

And I will echo your sentiments. I was so proud. When I got home and I thought about the feelings that I had, because I couldn't quite pinpoint how I was feeling while I was going through.

the emotions and the excitement I felt by the work that you and I did and then by the work I did in other spaces while in Sierra Leone. But when I got a chance to really truly reflect, it was pride. It was a genuine pride in being able to provide those who were in attendance with new skills.

new ideas, new ways of being potentially in the spaces that they showed up. And so that was exciting for me. And I do appreciate the fact that when you say it was easy, it was, there was definitely a flow there. But I think that came from the work that we did beforehand.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (16:26.062)

Yes, yeah, definitely, definitely. it just, it just, yeah, from beginning to end, it was just a great experience actually, as well. And just to see, you know, the little light bulbs show up in people's minds in the moment. And I know for me, I learned a lot from your workshop as well, even as a facilitator already. So it just, in every element of it, I was like, oh man, this is just great.

Aderonke (16:54.505)

And one thing that I will also highlight, our friend Engadi, who is co-managing director of Hotel Barmoy in Sierra Leone, Freetown, Sierra Leone. One of the things that she pointed out was while I was doing my workshop, you just flowed right in, you slipped right in and provided the level of support which I needed.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (17:17.014)

Hmm

Aderonke (17:21.873)

and we hadn't even considered, and you don't recognize that you necessarily need until you are actually in the flow. And I appreciated that. And the only other person that I've been able to have that level of just intuitive support, and I think that's the best way I can describe it, intuitive support, is with my brother, Olu, when he and I were doing workshops. And it's just like having somebody that you're in sync with.

and can, so like just say, just give a glance to, and they know, yeah, let me go do this, let me help with this. And that's what I saw with you. You were able to seamlessly provide a level of support that I hadn't anticipated. And often what I probably, if I'm doing a workshop by myself, would just do myself. And you were able to just almost read my mind.

and helped me. I think that was also a highlight for me after Ngaadi pointed it out. I was like, yeah. And it was so seamless that I didn't even think about it. It was just like, it was there. And so that's exciting. So I'm excited to have been part of a recent accomplishment.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (18:32.184)

Same with

André Bright - Burnout Coach (18:40.876)

Definitely, definitely really wise. It was awesome. Here's to more of them.

Aderonke (18:44.209)

Yeah, and I'm absolutely looking forward to more workshops, doing more of these kinds of presentations with you. So Andre, please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another slide. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (19:03.796)

Hmm. You know, I, I will say, and this was, this was actually a client of mine recently. And I think maybe because it was so recent is why it comes to mind. because it was someone who really needed help. one of the reasons I got into coaching was because I felt like I could be of service to people better.

than I could through architecture, but I didn't really know what that way was at the time. I just had this feeling that there's more I could be doing to help people. And then I found coaching and every now and again, you have a client where I guess the only way I can describe it is you experience transformation and whatever it was that they come in with is transformed.

on the other side of your sessions or, or whatever it is. And there's elements of it where it's like, okay, cool. I had something to do with that, you know, helping create the space and, you know, asking the right questions and using the right exercises that resonate and things like that. But it's always, it's the client who does the actual work. So for me, it was, it was really just that particular client.

coming in with such, I mean, they were in tears half of the session, which doesn't always happen. And that kind of gave a level of how challenging some of these issues were. But it was only a 30 second, 30 second, 30 minute session. But I checked in like a week afterwards and she had a bounce in her step like.

She was sounding like a completely different person. And I remember reading that email and really sitting with that after a while and being like, wow, this is actually the impact of what we do as coaches. I've had coaches before and I know the impact of it, but being on the other side.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (21:12.66)

and being able to help someone through something that really does change the way they experience life as a result, for me it was humbling.

Aderonke (21:24.323)

And so what were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (21:30.328)

part of it was the curiosity I mentioned before. able to, because one of the things I find about curiosity is to be truly curious, you have to be kind of without judgment. So it means that you're allowed to go into areas that others may not, or others may shun or shame or things like that. And so curiosity was a huge element that helped me there. But then also going, actually, yeah, actually, it's all three of the strengths I've said at the beginning to describe me is the creativity because there were some elements which were actually really difficult for her to even say out loud. So I had to find different ways for her to express what she was feeling. And then compassion is to actually hold space for her when she was breaking down.

the call and being like actually it's okay for that to happen on a call it's okay you're going through a lot and you don't have to put a mask on and I'm here to hold space for you so that we can help you through this and don't leave you in the middle of that feeling so yeah I'd say those are the three those are three things that definitely helped me within that within that

that client.

Aderonke (22:59.931)

So thank you for sharing that story. Can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? And what did you learn from that experience?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (23:15.714)

Mmm, I got a lot of them. Challenges come all the time. You know what, I think one of them, okay, let me, I'm trying to decide how, you know, there's an element of me is like, hmm, who will hear this? I had a challenge at work actually, and I think the way I approached it, was something that definitely helped me grow as a person. Because I think before I used to be a bit of a yes man. I used to be very much trying to please everybody. And what that meant was I was the last person on the priority list. In fact, my therapist was like, gave me a list. He was like, what are your priorities? I gave him a list and he was like, anything else? And I was like, yeah, sure. I added a few more. He's like, anything else and I was like no I think that's it and he's like do you notice anything about your list and I was like no it's quite long it's like you're not on it so so that was an interesting thing and what they ended up being is that you know I found that sometimes my needs wouldn't be met because I'm trying to meet everyone else's so there was an issue at work where I spoke up for myself and it was something where I guess the past me probably wouldn't have I would have just bit the bullet and sucked it up. Whereas this was something where I actually raised it. It was an aggrievence against the company. So I raised it up against them, to them, and I said exactly how I felt. And I guess there was a shift in me that realised that actually I am

Also just as valuable as the company is I feel like there was this element of as an employee I felt like the company was this Big thing that was giving me the job and the opportunities and etc. But in that moment, I realized actually they can't do anything without us and We do it well and so we should be treated as such and so yeah 

25:25

I challenged them on some of the things that they were doing not just with me but as a company and it brought a certain level of inner, it brought me back to my values. And I realized that I was able to stand on those and there were certain things that I wouldn't compromise on. And I think that was a bit of a revelation for me that helped me grow. So now I tend to speak out a lot more when I see it, not just with me, but with other people.

but finding ways as they say in radical candor to show compassion but then also get the job done so i'm not just so nice about it that nothing happens anymore

Aderonke (26:10.305)

good, good, good. You are listening to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Andre Bright. Andre, what self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (26:12.621)

Hmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (26:35.64)

There's a few actually, and I do a lot. I had a friend of mine who suffers from social anxiety and I got her a pin, right? And on this pin, it was her social meter. So when it was red, it basically said that she's running out of battery, right? And then when it was green, it said she was able to chat and be around people. And I remember getting her that and thinking, I need one of those. And so...

Part of the first, I is awareness. So I pay attention to myself. How am I feeling right now? I could be in the middle of a concert or on stage, for example, but I'll be very conscious of how I'm feeling in that moment. And if I need to find a space for myself, I will.

Aderonke (27:14.673)

you

André Bright - Burnout Coach (27:33.262)

And I won't just ride off everyone else's energy anymore, which allows me to actually refuel. So some that I have a really big tendency of just going at it. You know, I'll be at a party. I'll be there until the lights come on constantly. You know, I remember going to Japan and it was just like the club finished at six o'clock in the morning and I'm still there. Just me and the DJ. And it's, and it's great, but then you're exhausted afterwards. So.

Aderonke (27:37.637)

Mm-hmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (28:03.054)

Now, as I can feel my energy fluctuating, I adjust myself accordingly. One big thing that I do right now is what I call the Andre Day. And this is something where I tell everybody needs to have an Andre Day, but you just replace the Andre with your name. And it started off with it being effectively a wellness day, right? So I needed to pamper myself, treat myself like, you know, take myself on dates, all this kind of stuff.

but it ended up being something where I said, okay, on Andre Day, I'm only going to make decisions based on what Andre wants to do.

Very simple. So that means that I can actually do anything. Sometimes it might look like doing nothing. Sometimes it might look like doing something. But whatever it is, it's on my terms and not anyone else's. So if anyone comes around me on Andre Day, I usually have to tell them, listen, you're going to have to fend for yourself today. This is, this is Andre Day. If you want to eat something, you're going have to handle that yourself. You're going have to do this. I will be over here doing my thing. And that has really helped me actually. I try and do it at least once a month.

And that helps me not feel guilty, because sometimes when I do nothing for a day, it's like, I should be doing this, I should be doing that. But I have an actual Andre Day, which is designed for me to do nothing sometimes, designed for me to go to the theater, designed for me to spend time with my nieces and nephews and goddaughters or whatever it might be without guilt.

Aderonke (29:37.841)

So, Andre, I'm always curious when people say doing nothing, what does that look like? I mean, it seems self-evident, doing nothing is doing nothing, but what does doing nothing look like? I don't know what that looks like. Is it just sitting in a chair facing a wall? Is that doing nothing or is it sitting down watching TV? Is that doing nothing? Is it sitting down meditating? Like, I genuinely...

André Bright - Burnout Coach (29:53.87)

Mmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (30:07.438)

Mm.

Aderonke (30:07.461)

want to understand what doing nothing really looks like.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (30:11.822)

Do know what I'd say? I'm glad you asked that question because to be a little bit more specific, I would say doing nothing exclusively towards a goal. Because I find most of the time I'm working doing this or I might be meeting someone because I'm trying to make them a client or I might be going to a networking event because I want to meet new people or all this kind of stuff or I might be going on a date because I want a relationship, all these things. There might be a goal involved.

Whereas on Andre Day, doing nothing looks like I might be scrolling on Instagram all day. You know, I might be watching Netflix. I might be, there's usually red wine and popcorn involved in my Andre days. but sometimes it's actually just sleeping a lot, like being in and out of naps if necessary. Sometimes it might be writing and not writing a book or not.

writing my new program or anything like that, just journaling my thoughts, going for a walk and not necessarily going for it for, you know, to beat my steps. But just being curious, like there's a park near me that I hardly ever go to, you know, just going out there and looking at trees and all that kind of stuff. No particular goal, just doing whatever I want to do on that day or nothing at all.

Aderonke (31:37.093)

How long have you been doing these Andrè days? When did you start?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (31:40.402)

it's been a couple of years now. It's definitely a post pandemic thing. I think the, the pandemic introduced the idea of what those days could be. because we had a lot of time on our hands. but I really started making them Andre days that I planned. think maybe during slash after my first real bout of therapy. So with that.

The idea was that I would plan it and the intention was that I would treat it just as seriously as any other appointment in my diary. Because what used to happen is I might have some time off, but then if someone asked me to do something, I'd be like, yeah, I've got the day free. And then it would never happen. now it looks like, no actually, sorry, I can't do that on Tuesday.

I've got Andre Day. And that will be the thing. Like I deliberately won't do it. And I treat it just as seriously as if I was going into work. That day is blocked out.

Aderonke (32:54.043)

So I'm curious, do you tell people, if so, if I say to you, okay, I need to have a meeting with you next week, Monday, and it's an Andre day, would you tell me or others, no, it's an Andre day, it's a day, or it's a day that I've dedicated to self care, would you actually say that, or would you just say, no, I'm not available?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (33:14.968)

So here's part of what I learned about as I developed the transition from being a yes person saying yes to everyone else but me to whatever I am now. I used to think that if I say no, I had to provide a reason. Right? And so nowadays I most likely don't. Like if someone says, can you meet on Monday? I'll be like, no, I can't do Monday. How about Tuesday? And that's it.

Aderonke (33:40.529)

Hmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (33:41.634)

You know, they don't necessarily need to know that it's an Andre Day. But what I find is there have been times where I have felt compelled to share with someone just because I'm excited about Andre Day. And I'm like, actually, no, that's Andre Day. I'm doing this, this, this, this, this, or I'm doing nothing at all. I'm going to be sitting there. I just got a new Tesco's bag of popcorn and it's just waiting to be about this new season of Peaky Blinders and I'm going to binge it. Like, you know, all that kind of stuff. So can we do Tuesday.

Yeah.

Aderonke (34:12.507)

So your comment about saying no, I remember years ago, a lady I know, she was doing a certification. I'm not quite sure. I don't remember exactly what her certification was, but she got a group of people together. And one of the exercises we had to do was to say no, somebody ask us something. And you just say no, like you had to get practice just.

no without a qualifier, no I can't do because blah blah blah or no because just say no. And that was a real lesson for me because I always you always feel you have to say no but or no because and just saying no I feel takes a boldness because you don't feel like you have to explain yourself it's just no and you know I

André Bright - Burnout Coach (34:56.31)

Mmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (35:04.642)

Hmm.

Aderonke (35:09.265)

I've often said no is a full sentence, right? But not necessarily taking it on as a practice for myself. listening to you talk about just saying, no, I'm not available without explanation. I think that's a bold, that's bold, right? Because we're often, I speak for myself, I often feel compelled to sort of like give an explanation.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (35:33.87)

And then the question is where does that compulsion come from? Right? I remember the first time I really saw it that I remember is during my dance days, there was a competition, a battle, actually, dance battle. And I remember there was this guy who usually battles. I was like, you're battling today? And he was like, no. And I was like, how come? And he's like, I don't want to. And for me, that was so simple, but so profound. It's like, you're right. Just because I'm dancer, doesn't mean I have to battle at every event. I can even come and not battle and that doesn't make me any less of a dancer or anything like that. And little things like that, when you see it, you're like, actually, that's a good point. So yeah, we don't always have to provide a reason. We don't have to justify, you know, time for ourselves or anything like that. It just is.

Aderonke (36:23.363)

Hmm.

Aderonke (36:30.541)

And I'm going to consider Aderonke days. I really am. I'm going think about that. Andre, how am I sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (36:36.046)

the

Yeah.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (36:51.502)

Powerful questions. I really hope people take away certain things from this conversation. One is the boldness, right? To treat yourself just as seriously as you treat anybody else. I find this is interesting with coaching because often we know the answers, we just don't do them. And we don't do the things that we would advise our friends to do if they were experiencing what we're experiencing now.

I remember this friend of mine asking me for some advice and in my head I was very conscious like, but he knows this. And when I told him and he was like, oh yeah, true, I should do that. And I was like, but you knew that before, right? And he was like, yeah. It's like, so what do you need to come to me for? And he's like, maybe I just needed to hear it from somebody else. I was like, okay. Well, let me be the person to say it to you. You know it. You know, we know it innately. And I think sometimes if there is one thing that you might take away is to listen to that intuition, listen to that voice that comes from you. But the only thing that I have found to be a bit of a challenge with that is being able to decipher that voice from every other voice in your head. So a lot of the things that we assume are our thoughts were actually just things that someone said to us when we were younger. They may not even be from us at all. And so it's really being, but who is my voice? In a room full of people, if my mum calls me, I'll be able to hear it out of the crowd. So how can we get to the point where we hear our own voice out of the crowd of other people's voices in our heads? So, and that comes with time, it comes with intuition, it comes with some of that alone time as well, and allowing your thoughts to actually make that run. One of the biggest shifts for me that I've realised recently, working with clients who have like really destructive inner thoughts, know, negative thoughts all the time, et cetera, is helping them through so they can see that actually those thoughts aren't theirs a lot of the time. And even if they weren't, they can talk to them like they're talking to somebody right here and give them compassion. It sounds like such a woo woo exercise, but if there's a voice that is actually scared, talk to it like a scared child. Like, what are you scared of? Like, how can we make that fear?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (39:15.104)

less of a fear, what do need right now? You know, what would make you feel stronger? You know, speak to those voices as if they're actual people who need something. So yeah, that's something I hope they will take away from this and you'll be surprised where that might lead you.

Aderonke (39:40.017)

Thank you. Thank you so much. And the exercise of talking to your inner voice as though we're a child. I can see that giving comfort, And giving, adding a strength.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (39:44.067)

You're welcome.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (39:59.303)

Mmm. Mmm. It really does. And I think it kind of gives them, like I said, that voice.

There's been times when I've felt something and the moment I actually face it and have that conversation with myself, I realize what I actually need in the moment. And it might be something completely unrelated to the topic. You know, I was reading this book recently and it was saying how, you know, if you're in an argument with someone or someone was to come up with you and say something crazy, a lot of the time it's their call for help.

And sometimes internally we do that in our minds. We find things to just alert us to the idea that we need something. know, anger might be that we've been crossed in some way. Sadness might be that we're missing something. Usually the emotions are telling us something.

Aderonke (40:57.179)

So Andre, what exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? And how do these opportunities align with your passions and your aspirations?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (41:07.97)

Well, I guess with us, we definitely have opportunities with what we're doing in terms of the leadership training and taking me to different places, maybe even Bermuda as well. No UK and Sierra Leone, who knows? But I feel like this year is an interesting one because I have come to the end of my tenancy with my accommodation and I don't have any dependents.

Aderonke (41:19.569)

You

André Bright - Burnout Coach (41:34.078)

And I really genuinely feel like the world is my oyster in this moment. So I'm actually expecting even more opportunities to show up that may not even be on the pipeline for me at the moment. So my word for this month, for this year is surrender. So it's allowing myself to be open to opportunities to see where they might take me. Cause I feel like last year there was elements of, there were definitely some

opportunities where I try to control so much, I think I stifle them. So now I'm looking at what surrender might look like. And then who knows what it will take me.

Aderonke (42:17.649)

So I've talked on my podcast about words and words of the year. And I think my number two, episode number two from 2024, my guest was Keck Sanford-Quiri. And she talked about a book called One Word. And that was one of her book recommendations. And I went and read it. And...

Actually, I interviewed her in 2023, but the show wasn't aired until 2024. And so I read the book, which is only about an hour read. And I came up with the word for last year. And I did a similar exercise. So I just allowed a word. And actually, what I did is allow the word to bubble up inside of me. And I don't know how to explain that other than I just waited.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (43:01.39)

Okay.

Aderonke (43:16.027)

for the word to bubble up and it did. And so my word for 2025 is belonging. And last year my word was connection. And so what does surrender mean to you?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (43:31.245)

Mmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (43:36.662)

Surrender means...

André Bright - Burnout Coach (43:41.644)

Surrender means being open.

Surrender means listening, means paying attention, it means not trying to control, basically. I think I have a way of trying to be in control quite a lot. I don't necessarily suffer from the overthinking characteristic, but I think only because I think so fast.

So it doesn't feel like I'm overthinking. It's just, think fast and it's done. But I think of every eventuality. I try and think of anything that could possibly go right and wrong. I try and think of so many different things and then take action against them. And sometimes I actually just need to wait and listen. And that came up when I did a project in Sierra Leone and my business partner at the time, she...

took a lot more time to process than I did, right? Or I thought I did. And I realized by listening to her once she did process that I wasn't processing at all. I was just reacting. She actually gave herself time to be reflective and introspective and what would this mean, you know, those kinds of things. And I think surrender for me allows that space in a way that me trying to act now all the time doesn't give space for.

Aderonke (45:16.801)

And I mentioned how I was able to find my word for this year. How did you find surrender? How did it come to you?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (45:26.194)

I was, I just finished reading a book called The Surrender Experiment. So it's about a guy who started off with loads of inner thoughts and he just wanted to quiet them, quieten them. And he found meditation as a way of quieting his thoughts. And then through meditation, he started to... realised that there was this resistance in his mind when things happened and that was like his ego and all these kind of things and as an experiment he was like what if I was to quieten the ego and just follow the things that I'm being pulled towards and see where they take me and it took him on a whole journey. The same guy that wrote The Untethered Soul

And it was just, yeah, a brilliant book. And I thought to myself, hmm, I wonder what mine would look like if I was to let go of that control as well. What it would look like if I was to surrender to the possibilities of the universe, you know? And not think that, because oftentimes I would have an idea and be so focused on the idea. I'd be missing out on this.

whole world of possibilities that could be going next to it. And a lot of the things that have happened in my life so far have actually been a result of doing something that's completely not on my radar. Am I bump into someone like Yusef Fuljalo on a train and he's like, I've got a festival in Sierra Leone. Do you want to come? And I was like, actually, I've already got my flights booked. Let's do it. And then we ended up doing the National Storytelling Festival for like five years and developing that into something incredible. And that

wouldn't have happened if I had thought to myself, but I need to this and that and the third. So, hmm.

Aderonke (47:17.009)

And so I think this leads us nicely into the next question. What book recommendation do you have? It can be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (47:35.852)

I think the recent one will probably be that surrender experiment, just because it's so recent for me. And it has definitely made an impact already. terms of something a little bit just in general, something that has stayed with me for the years is...

What was it called now?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (48:08.232)

of remembering that The Alchemist yeah like I really enjoyed that book there's this there's The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle as well but I feel like for me The Alchemist was a book that really resonated with me in terms of his journey in terms of his you know his search

Aderonke (48:10.577)

Mmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (48:32.344)

for himself, think that that really resonated with me. And I think anybody who's looking, who's in a similar kind of state would really benefit from reading that book. It's something I'd pick up now and read again.

Aderonke (48:45.463)

And Andre, thank you. Thank you for sharing and for giving so much. And my final question, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

André Bright - Burnout Coach (49:02.338)

so many. Yeah, I just thank you for having me on as a guest. Like it's a phenomenal platform and I love being able to speak to you. I know it's crazy how we met online, delivered workshops and then spent like a week together bumping into each other in Sierra Leone and built this awesome bond. I think one thing maybe I would leave the listeners with is just to be curious. Curious without judgment, you know, whether it's about other people, whether it's about yourself. It keeps cropping up as a word when I'm coaching. Whatever challenge is, just being curious. So for example, if you're brainstorming something, just be curious, you know, we tend to filter our thoughts before it even gets to paper, but you know, actually be curious and just have wonder, you know, and that's something I feel like can be missing when we're trying to pay taxes and rent and all this kind of stuff is the wonder of the universe is around us all the time. And you can actually be blown away by the majesty of it all if you give yourself a chance to or time to.

Aderonke (50:29.777)

Andre, thank you. And I have got three appreciation nuggets that I want to share from our conversation. The first one is going to be Andre Day's. I like that. I like that as a concept. I like that. I think I like that as a practice and figuring out what not doing nothing looks like.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (50:39.448)

Okay.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (50:47.821)

Yes.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (50:51.438)

Thank

Aderonke (50:57.937)

for me as an individual. And the second one would be...

André Bright - Burnout Coach (51:00.174)

Hmm.

Aderonke (51:07.813)

having the boldness to treat yourself as seriously as you treat others. And that takes, I think that takes a person being very, very deliberate. And then the third one is what you've just said, just be curious without judgment.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (51:13.666)

Hmm.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (51:29.55)

Yeah, that last one is really is a game changer for me as well. Just be curious without judgment, you'd be surprised how much we missed by thinking something is right or wrong or should or shouldn't. And then you realize it just is. And it can be beautiful just as it is.

Aderonke (51:56.665)

And so, Andre, I appreciate you taking the time to join me on A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories of people we may know. Andre, thank you so much.

André Bright - Burnout Coach (52:15.074)

Thank you so much. appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me.