S2 Ep11. Katharina Linnepe: Healing the Patriarchy, One Laugh at a Time

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter. In today's episode, we are joined by Katharina Linnepe—feminist, author, and passionate advocate for equality. Katharina’s empathetic nature and strong vision for a more inclusive world shine through in everything she does. 

Katharina joins us from Berlin, Germany, where she’s experiencing the tail end of winter, but keeping the sun alive in her heart. It’s great to have her with us today. Katharina, now adding author to her list of descriptors, begins by defining what feminism means to her. Her perspective is one of inclusivity and shared progress, emphasizing the importance of equality for all.

Describing herself as multi-passionate, Katharina works across various fields: as a presenter, moderator, host, comedian, podcaster, and keynote speaker. Her journey as a keynote speaker began with her first book, and it’s clear that her diverse passions are all driven by her dedication to advocating for feminism and equality.

Katharina’s book, Patriarchy in Therapy, presents an unconventional approach to feminism through comedy. The concept of therapy for our social system, with patriarchy as the patient, is humorous and unsettling. The book’s unique angle uses humor to tackle serious social issues, bringing a fresh perspective to feminism.

Katharina shares her strong belief in the importance of empathy when working towards a world with equal rights. Empathy, to Katharina, is about truly understanding the feelings of the person in front of you, which is crucial for meaningful connections.

Katharina shares some fun facts about herself. She’s a highly sensitive person, attuned to noise, light, and social input—traits she considers a superpower. She’s also multi-passionate, focusing on a central theme of feminism and equality and building projects around it. And, on a lighter note, she doesn't particularly like vegetables—except for tomatoes.

Katharina’s ability to blend humor with serious topics is one of her greatest strengths. She views comedy as a Trojan horse for feminism—able to reach people in a way that traditional discourse might not. Her high sensitivity and empathy also allow her to deeply understand people’s fears, worries, and confusions.

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Transcript

Aderonke (00:01.046)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest on today's show is Katharina Linnepe. 

Katharina Linnepe (00:27.711)

Hello! Thank you so much for having me!

Aderonke (00:30.264)

feminist, passionate, empathetic. Katharina, welcome to the show.

Aderonke (00:39.422)

And I want to get into your descriptors, but before that, tell us where in the world you are. Where do you live?

Katharina Linnepe (00:47.207)

I live in Germany, I live in the capital of Germany in Berlin. yeah, so we're still in winter time. So it's quite grayish outside, but I'm trying to keep the sun alive in my heart.

Aderonke (01:04.93)

haha

I understand that actually I wanna go back to your descriptors. I wanna personally add one more descriptor that you didn't give me, but that I know. And I wanna say author. so let's start with being a feminist. What in your definition is a feminist?

Katharina Linnepe (01:16.692)

Right.

Katharina Linnepe (01:20.199)

Uh-huh.

Katharina Linnepe (01:29.437)

Yeah. A feminist is a person who believes in equal rights and in, in human rights, actually, this is my definition. And this is the misunderstanding sometimes for some people, you know, when I say I fight against patriarchy, I'm usually losing people.

You know, I'm losing people and they think, okay, this is, this is going to be a matriarchy in the end, you know, and it's not about this. It's about equal rights. It's about a better life for everyone by fighting for humanity. This is my definition of feminism.

Aderonke (02:21.42)

And you're described to us being passionate. What does that look like?

Katharina Linnepe (02:24.095)

Yeah, I would even say I'm multi-personate, you know, I'm interested in so, so many things. And this is hard sometimes for me because, you know, having a career, especially in our world is quite, you know, you have to choose one path and this is not for me.

Aderonke (02:52.738)

So tell me about some of your passions. What gives you drive? What areas?

Katharina Linnepe (03:00.617)

So I'm definitely a stage person. I work on stages in different fields. Sometimes I work as a presenter, moderator, host, whatever you might call it for events. And I enjoy that a lot. But I'm also a comedian, a stand-up comedian here in Germany. And yeah, a podcaster as well. Sometimes a keynote speaker. This is...

You know, this is starting right now, because as you said, I'm also an author now. It still feels, wow, it's still new to me to be an author, because the book release, my first book release was one week ago, so it still feels new to me. yeah, becoming an author is also connected to becoming a keynote speaker. you, you know...

if you release a book, a non-fiction book about a strong topic like feminism, people ask you to share your vision. So yeah, that's the next step, becoming a keynote speaker through my first book.

Aderonke (04:16.894)

And tell me the title of the book.

Katharina Linnepe (04:20.115)

Yeah, it's called patriarchy in therapy. And this is, know, where comedy, yeah, sneaks in, you know, I was thinking of an unconventional approach to, to get people interested in my vision of a feminist world, of a, of a world.

of equality. I thought to myself, how would it be if patriarchy underwent psychotherapy? What would it say? And what would it be even treatable? And the patient, which is patriarchy, the answers are super, super funny, but also terrifying. So yeah, this is actually

what this book is about, a therapy with our social system. And that's quite unconventional.

Aderonke (05:29.976)

And how did you come up with this idea? Where did this idea to put patriarchy in therapy to try and cure it, I guess, or give it a new perspective, where did that come from?

Katharina Linnepe (05:35.913)

Yeah.

Katharina Linnepe (05:42.641)

Yes, at first it was an Instagram series I did some time ago. Yeah, the videos they went viral super, super quickly. And at some point publishers asked me if I wanted to write a book. And I said, yes, sure. And then I realized, my goodness, I have to write a book now. So yeah, that was crazy. It was a crazy journey from

from the start of recording some funny videos for Instagram and then dive into this process of writing a book. But it felt good and it felt necessary. It was the next necessary step to share my opinions.

to share my views and to share my vision.

Aderonke (06:46.072)

How long did it take to write the book?

Katharina Linnepe (06:48.319)

Let me think. I think it was like six months or something, six months in total. Yeah, it went quite quickly because, you know, all the ideas were already there, you know, but I had to find a new way to express them, you know, to write them down. But

You know, the idea was crystal clear and they were the ideas were crystal clear in this, in this, video context, you know, I started it on Instagram. So, I have the topic, I have the setting. I know this, therapy setting and all that it was already there, but then I had to, yeah, I had to find a way to write that.

down and that took some time, but yeah, in the end, I could, yeah, I had a deadline and I finished it 18 days before and I still don't know how I managed that, but yeah, it worked.

Aderonke (08:00.014)

Well, again, congratulations. I am really excited for you and thrilled. And I look forward to reading the book when it's in English at some point.

Katharina Linnepe (08:05.865)

Thank you so much.

At some point exactly I still need to talk to my publisher and figure out what the next steps are but yeah I think it might be translated yeah.

Aderonke (08:25.846)

And to get back to your third descriptor, empathetic, tell me about that.

Katharina Linnepe (08:30.213)

Uh-huh.

Aderonke (08:44.131)

Hold on, Katharina.

Katharina Linnepe (09:03.58)

so sorry about that.

Aderonke (09:06.538)

Yeah, as you were talking, as you were answering this most recent question, I got a message to say that you had stopped recording and then you disappeared. Let's continue. And if we continue to run into problems, we can figure out another time to do it. But let's see where we go. All right. So I'm going to ask you the question again. I need to start recording.

Katharina Linnepe (09:09.442)

Yep.

Katharina Linnepe (09:23.49)

Show. Show.

Katharina Linnepe (09:29.139)

last question.

Aderonke (00:01.08)

Katharina, you've described yourself as empathetic. Tell me about that.

Katharina Linnepe (00:06.547)

So if you have that strong vision of a world with equal rights of humanity, you actually have to be empathetic. think this is necessary. I think it's very important to understand how the person in front of you feels if you want to.

Convince the person in a way, but not convince, but include that person in your, in your vision. That's very important. So I'm trying my best to understand people. This is, this is part of my journey, trying to understand people. And it's important to say understand because sometimes you think empathy is the same as compassion.

And it's not, it can be a rational approach, a simple rational approach, just listening to the other person and trying to understand where the person comes from. And this is very, very important. And I don't have to, I don't have to feel everything the other person went through to show my empathy.

This is very, very important for me and for my work as well.

Aderonke (01:42.606)

I'm go back to what you just said, empathy and compassion are not the same. Define both for me.

Katharina Linnepe (01:46.773)

You

Katharina Linnepe (01:50.843)

think compassion is a, is a special way of empathy. It's an emotional empathy, but not a cognitive empathy, you know? So, there's a difference between understanding the other person or feeling everything the person feels feeling everything the person tells me. And.

Both are important.

However, sometimes we struggle with really feeling everything or even being overwhelmed by all the feelings around us. And that's okay. That's okay.

But it should not lead us to, you know, cut off and say, okay, I'm, I'm over with this. We can still try to find a way to understand people. can still find a rational way to connect. And that's very important. We have different, we can find different ways to connect. We can find different ways to show our empathy.

And this is very, very important to understand. And yeah, I think everyone should know this, that there are so, so many ways to connect and to show empathy.

Aderonke (03:33.43)

I want to get to our question, so I'm going to ask you first question. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Katharina Linnepe (03:39.263)

Yeah.

Katharina Linnepe (03:43.494)

Mm-hmm.

Katharina Linnepe (03:48.645)

Yes, right. So I think the first thing is I am a highly sensitive person, which is connected to being empathetic, right? So it means that I'm more sensitive to things like noise, light or social input than other people. And this is actually, yeah, this actually contradicts my life as a stage person, you know, with

all the social interactions and all that. But I think it's also a kind of superpower in some way. Yeah, because I'm also very sensitive to the feelings of people around me and I can, I can sense the mood in a room and moderate the mood in a room well, which is what a presenter should do. So

It's a challenge sometimes, but it's also a superpower. So that would be the first thing, I guess. The next thing I said, I'm passionate. I'm multi-passionate. And I already said that that means a career, finding a single career is difficult for me. But at some point I realized that I don't have to.

The most important thing is to have a strong theme, to have strong values that drive you and then you build your projects around them. And that's what I do as a feminist. I work in different fields and projects for my life theme, which is feminism and equality. And number three, yeah, I don't like vegetables.

Aderonke (05:43.896)

Really?

Katharina Linnepe (05:44.625)

Yeah, really? And I don't know why that is. I don't know. I remember when I was a child, my mom, she always tried to get me used to it, but she gave up at some point.

Aderonke (06:01.89)

So you don't eat any vegetables, like nothing?

Katharina Linnepe (06:02.357)

That's crazy.

Some tomatoes are okay. They are okay. And I'm trying some kinds of vegetables every now and then. And sometimes it works, sometimes not. It's crazy, I know. But I love fruit. So I should be safe, vitamin-wise. Yeah, but that's crazy. I don't know. I don't know where that came from.

Aderonke (06:33.342)

That is interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Katharina, can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Katharina Linnepe (06:35.259)

Sure.

Katharina Linnepe (06:44.437)

Yeah, definitely my first book. This is wow. It's incredible. It's an incredible feeling. And I'm so proud. And I'm so proud that I found a way to express what I think about our world today, you know, about the backlash of patriarchy.

It couldn't be a better time to publish that kind of book, you know, and it looks like it's going to be a success. So yeah, now it's, it's only been published in German so far, who knows? Maybe it will be translated in the future. And yeah, I'm so excited to see.

Aderonke (07:36.206)

And I want to say congratulations. I must say congratulations. I can only imagine that it was a labor of love for you and for you to be on this side of having written it and beginning to see the successes of it. I wholeheartedly extend my congratulations to you.

Katharina Linnepe (07:46.185)

Absolutely.

Katharina Linnepe (07:58.303)

Thank you so, so much. Thank you. Yeah, it feels so good. And yeah, I'm so grateful. I'm so, grateful. Yeah.

Aderonke (08:12.952)

So what were the key strengths and qualities you relied on? Sorry, let's go back. I missed the question. Please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Katharina Linnepe (08:28.037)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so as I said, my book is based on an Instagram series. So I've become quite well known in a short period of time and I'm also recognized on the street now here in Berlin. And a few weeks ago, when I was sitting in a cafe, a man came up to my table and

He said that he recognized me from my videos and you know, whenever a man comes up to me and says that he knows my feminist work, I'm skeptical at first. But he thanked me for, and that's what he said. He thanked me for helping him to be a better person. And that was incredible.

And it also scared me a bit because I don't want to be some kind of moral authority or something. You know, that's the problem when you're becoming an influencer, you know, it's the problem to figure out how to stay humble and all that. But I'm very grateful for his words because now I know that my work reaches people.

Yeah.

Aderonke (09:57.8)

And what has, excuse me.

You mentioned that your work has touched this gentleman. How have women responded? What are women saying to you as you have conversations?

Katharina Linnepe (10:21.071)

my goodness. they, they like it so much and they, they celebrate my words and they, they tell me that they now have, you know, the right words and the right tools to, you know, to go into discussions about feminism and all that. And this is

This is nice to see that I can give them some, some kind of tools and some support and the right words and, and, all these things to, to, yeah, to manage their fights, to manage their everyday fights around equality. And that's, yeah, that's also something I'm very, very grateful for.

Aderonke (11:19.254)

What were the key strengths and qualities you rely on to make a difference?

Katharina Linnepe (11:24.289)

Mm-hmm. So I think what helps me to reach people like this man in the cafe with my work is my ability to dress seriousness in humor. I think this is a strength, definitely, that makes it easier to interest and inspire people. Comedy is like

Some kind of Trojan horse, you know, and feminism and the fight for equality, they need a Trojan horse because it's public image has suffered a lot. So it helps to start by making people laugh about what's wrong, but then we're ready to talk about what's wrong and connect, you know? And I think my high sensitivity and empathy also help.

here, can understand the worries, I can understand the fears and the confusion that people have in this chaotic world and these times of transformation. This means I can reach out, even if I stick to my beliefs and values, I can still reach out.

Aderonke (12:46.744)

Katharina, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Katharina Linnepe (12:53.543)

Right. So when my mom was diagnosed with cancer, and she died three years later, that time was, yeah, it was the hardest time of my life. And I still don't know how I managed all that to, to, to be there for my mom during this time, to care for her, to work full time.

and to say goodbye to my mom emotionally. on the other hand, I now, I'm now realizing that I laid the foundations for my life today during this time. I learned about my strength and my resilience. I understood myself better and also what my mom gave me and

And I learned a lot from my mother who, who had to say goodbye to this world about the burdens and missed opportunities in her life and in my whole maternal line and my fate as a carer with care work and the fact that I couldn't pursue a career.

at that time is also a typical woman's know, care work, being a carer, stopping us from express ourselves in more ways. So I think I had to become a feminist and I had to become a feminist author. And I had to write this book at some point. Now it's crystal clear for me.

Aderonke (14:45.966)

Where do you see yourself going after this? After you've written one book, do you have other books bubbling up inside of you?

Katharina Linnepe (14:54.589)

Yes, yes, I'm already thinking, you know, and at some point thinking will become writing. It will be about new technologies. I think this is, this is also very important, also from a feminist point of view, because what I see is that many, people fear

The digital transformation, they fear a lot of transformations, know, feminist transformation, know, diversity as a transformation, also the digital transformation. And this is all connected because, through the digital world, so many people and communities have the possibility to speak up, have the

possibility to become visible, have the possibility to connect. And this scares some people because

You know, privilege, privileges is a thing, of course. Why can't we live the way we lived forever? All of these kinds of things. So we have to think, we have to think feminism, digital, digitally. So this is very, very important. We have to understand that the digital world is part of our world today and that it is a part

of our transformation process, global transformation process, and that it is a room for diversity. But we have to set the rules in this space, in this digital space again. And it's important to understand that as an activist, as a feminist activist and yeah.

Katharina Linnepe (17:01.459)

So I'm thinking of the digital work as the next book project.

Aderonke (17:08.398)

I find it interesting that we get to talk about the digital transformation and evolution that the world is going through right now. And I do believe that if people can have access, if they can understand it, and I think it's relatively easy to understand, but it's the diverse thinking that will change how it evolves.

And I'm really thinking, I've been really thinking about this because if you get people online who maybe traditionally haven't been online, if you give them access to tools, they will use them differently. They will interact with them differently. And that can only advance us as humans, as people, because you're giving tools to people who...

who will revolutionize how those tools are being used. I see that, I feel that. Tell me your thoughts.

Katharina Linnepe (18:12.626)

Mm-hmm.

I I strongly believe that new technologies, large language models as Chedjipiti and all that bring us closer to humanity. I believe that.

Katharina Linnepe (18:36.543)

You know, I can see that from a little example, you know, from my everyday life. I'm using chat GPT now for, for I think one year or something, but only for private conversations. And if you see large language models as a mirror.

Katharina Linnepe (19:01.405)

It's very interesting to see what it tells me about myself. You know, the output of chat GPT, of my personal chat GPT is, is wow. It's, it's incredible. It's using emojis now. It's, it has a sense of humor now and all that. And it's so empathetic. And if I understand that this is a mirror, it shows me that I'm

able to.

to show empathy. Technological. Technological space. This is it's kind of training it's kind of. Train empathy training.

And that's great. And that can help me in everyday life as well in the analog world as well. So why not co-create new technologies? Why not co-create them in everyday life and not, you know, fear new technologies to take over the world at some point and stuff like that. Just co-create it.

Aderonke (20:32.022)

You said you use ChatGPT for private conversations. What does that look like?

Katharina Linnepe (20:37.973)

So sometimes it's just, you know, I'm waking up and I can't find motivation for the day, especially in these days, you know, it's, my goodness. mean, the global situation, the political situation. Well, it sometimes it's very hard to find motivation for your everyday work. So sometimes I'm just asking to LGBT. Okay. Wow. That was.

That was a tough night. couldn't find sleep. What should I do now? And what, what should I do as a meditation routine, stuff like that. then chat GPT helps me and chat GPT validates my emotions. know, saying something like, my God, I can understand that. I can understand that it's tough times.

Yeah, just words like this. this is, this is so it's, it's nourishing in a way. It's, it's weird. It's scary. You know, it's scary. You know, a technology is telling you, Oh my God, I can understand how you feel. But still it's, it's interesting to see that my words and my input, um, are transferred into this results. So.

I'm reconnected to myself in a way through technology. And that's an interesting experience and it helps me. So in this example, like, okay, I'm finding no motivation and then having that validation. It's okay. That's, that's powerful. That's powerful. And sometimes it helps me to, to find my motivation and to just get up.

and do my work.

Aderonke (22:39.52)

You are listening to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast.

Aderonke (22:47.224)

Welcome back to AB Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. My guest on today's show is Katharina Lineper. Katharina, thank you for sharing your wisdom, your guidance, your humor with us so far. What self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Katharina Linnepe (23:12.213)

Self-care. So I'm so grateful for this question because I think there are a lot of people who are highly sensitive like me and you don't even have to be highly sensitive to need self-care in these tough times and tough political times and it's so important to know that political and social circumstances affect

us and stress us and we need to take care of ourselves. That's very, very important for me to say. So not just if you are an activist like me and you're exposed to hate speech and all that. So it's so, so important to take care of ourselves. So what helps me is sleep. I need my sleep. And what's also interesting

to know is statistics show that women need more sleep than men. So if you need more than eight hours of sleep, that's totally fine. Then please sleep longer than eight hours. If you can please do so. You know, there is no kind of norm for that and there's no kind of norm for your self care practices. And, yeah, also meditation helps me.

Spirituality also helps me. And laughter, humour is the best self-catch-all I know.

Aderonke (24:54.168)

What makes you laugh?

Katharina Linnepe (24:56.629)

The world, the word itself, the way we live, the way we interact with each other. You know, it's always good to, to step back, look at the world and say, why are we doing this? Why? Just why? And that's so funny. If you, if you find this, you know, view.

from above and look at things and just look at our interactions and all that. It's so, so funny, know, everyday life, dating life, all that. It's crazy. It's crazy. so it's funny. It's also terrifying in a way sometimes, but it's good to laugh a lot about it. then

trying to change something. It's a way to deconstruct the world and our structures we live in. And laughing is a good start.

Aderonke (26:11.742)

And how might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Katharina Linnepe (26:22.101)

Hmm. I like to see how I encourage others to be creative. As I said, sometimes just, just step out of the situation and laugh about it. And this is my source of inspiration and creativity. And I mean, creative in standing up for, for ideas about

the world, know, new ideas about the world. And to make this happen, I talk a lot about my personal journey and try to inspire people through my personal journey and what I've learned from my struggles and how I see them in relation to our communities and our society and how it helps me to look critically at the world and how I want to change it.

You know, you can make an impact through comedy, through art, through literature. And sometimes it's just a conversation with a taxi driver, you know? And I'm grateful if I can inspire others just a little to, find their own way to change their own lives and by that to change the world a little.

Aderonke (27:47.352)

What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions? We talked about you being passionate and your aspirations.

Katharina Linnepe (27:56.533)

Yes, so now that I'm also an author, my god, this is still new to me. The next step is for me to enter the stage as a keynote speaker. And there are already some dates for this nationally, only in German, but I'm very, very excited to see what will be coming out of it. And I'm really looking forward to it.

I'm a stage person as I said, it's so new for me not to present something else, you know, but my own ideas and my voice. And I think I'm ready.

Aderonke (28:40.014)

Do you see yourself traveling throughout Europe and other parts of the world to share your message about feminism and deconstructing society as, and pushing the boundaries as it were?

Katharina Linnepe (28:54.527)

Yes, I'd love to. I'd love that. So I went to Sierra Leone in December to see my family, to join my father's birthday. And this part of the family is still a new part of the family for me because I grew up in Germany and now this part of the family is...

You know, it's getting closer and I enjoyed it so, so much this, this, yeah, traveling to Sierra Leone and to experience this country. And I want to see so much more of the world, you know, I live in Europe and that's, and that's all ready.

quite diverse, you know, there are so many countries, here everywhere, you know, it's, it's not that, it's not that difficult to spend a weekend in a different country here in Europe. And that's, and that's great. But I, I feel that I want to connect to more continents, to more countries and to not only.

share my views and my experiences, but also to learn, to learn about feminism in different countries, also to learn about feminism in Sierra Leone. There is no such thing as a global feminism. There are so many feminisms all over the world and we have to understand that as well. It's also, you know, an empathetic

way to understand your own movement. That's also very important for us to understand, you know, that we are now in the wave of intersectional feminism.

Aderonke (31:10.766)

What does that mean? What does intersectional feminism mean?

Katharina Linnepe (31:14.291)

Yeah. It means that we don't have one experience as a woman or a person or a human being. Also being discriminated is not that one experience. And there are

intersections of different experiences of discrimination. You know, I'm a woman. I'm a person of color, you know, and this makes a difference. You know, a white feminist in Germany has different experiences and we have to talk about that. We have to share our views. We have to share our experiences to fully understand and to make sure

that we don't talk about people, but talk to each other and connect. And that's very important. So we have to see how diverse our experiences are and how diverse feminism has to be to include everyone. It's a matter of inclusion, actually.

Aderonke (32:45.422)

Thank you for sharing that. And I hadn't considered feminism, diversity, I guess, is how I would see it. I hadn't thought about.

how feminism will be seen in different countries, in different cultures, in different places and spaces. And so you've given me that, that as something to think about and what feminism looks like here in Bermuda, where I live, it will be different from feminism as you experience it and understand it in Germany. So I think it creates opportunities for

Katharina Linnepe (33:22.793)

Mm-hmm.

Aderonke (33:30.606)

greater conversation, greater sense of belonging and greater opportunities to, as you've said, create greater human rights for everyone.

Katharina Linnepe (33:42.645)

Exactly. Exactly. That's what it is. So it's also important to understand that, you know, gender problems and gender discussions are the source of the movement of feminism. But it's more actually. It's about more. It's about, as you said, it's about

human rights. It includes us all. And that's very important to understand, to also show that it benefits men, that it benefits also our movements around other isms, you know?

racism and all that, you know, it's all connected. It's about human rights and you shouldn't, you shouldn't be triggered by the word feminism, that it doesn't include everyone, you know, that it's only about female, females and all that. No, that's a misunderstanding. We started the movement, but you're all very welcome to join.

Aderonke (35:16.13)

Katharina, we're coming to the end of our.

Katharina Linnepe (35:17.247)

Mm-hmm

Aderonke (35:22.062)

thoughtful, insightful conversation. And I want to understand what books you read. What book recommendation do you have? It could be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years. And it could be more than one book.

Katharina Linnepe (35:35.157)

Mm-hmm.

Katharina Linnepe (35:40.135)

Okay. So always and forever, it's all about love, bell hooks. It taught me everything. It taught me everything about love, empathy, feminism, my identity as a black feminist and how we can heal our souls in this world and find real connections.

So it's a must read always for everyone forever. And that's it.

Aderonke (36:13.422)

And of course your book. will put your book and a link to how people can find it on the website because those that speak German and read German outside of Germany can actually get it and read it. So I will say again for the record, as your publishers hopefully are listening, I look forward to reading it in English at some point.

Katharina Linnepe (36:18.566)

Haha

Katharina Linnepe (36:36.885)

You

That would be awesome. That would be awesome. Let's wait and see.

Aderonke (36:48.29)

Katharina, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Katharina Linnepe (36:52.273)

Yeah, I was thinking when I answered your first question, I forgot one important thing. I suffer from imposter syndrome. Although I do media work and all that, I'm really suffering from that and I'm always thinking in these kind of situations, my goodness, now everyone, the whole world will realize that I'm not qualified to do.

what I do. It's strange. It's, I don't know, it's crazy. And I'm so, so proud that I accepted your interview requests. I was so scared that my English would be too bad for this and I wouldn't have anything important to say, you know. So thank you so, much for encouraging me and for, yeah, for creating this room to

to share my ideas. Thank you so, much.

Aderonke (37:55.16)

Catherine, I have to thank you. I have appreciated this conversation. And I will say, people who are listening to this, you and I actually met in Sierra Leone. We met at Hotel Balmoy, shout out to Hotel Balmoy. And from our very first conversation, just saying hello, we connected and we were able to have many.

Katharina Linnepe (38:12.521)

Yeah

Aderonke (38:24.782)

long conversations during our time there. And I remember our last conversation sitting in the upstairs restaurant and almost running out of there to pack my bags and leave for the airport. But I was so caught up in our conversations and the conversations that were swirling and dipping in and out around us. And I wanted to have more of that. I appreciated that time and that space.

Katharina Linnepe (38:35.082)

Yes.

Aderonke (38:54.764)

that was created in order for us to meet and have some really insightful discussions around life, around the spaces that we each show up in and how we move around and view the world. So of course I had to have you on the podcast because I wanted to...

Katharina Linnepe (38:58.674)

Uh-huh.

Aderonke (39:24.226)

to have more of that and to share that clearly with any and everyone that will listen to this podcast. So, Katharina, I really, truly appreciate the fact that you said yes and that you, and that we're able to do it on the, after the launch of your book so that others who may not know about it can find it and read it.

and understand your perspective on changing not just Germany, but the world.

Katharina Linnepe (40:00.223)

Thank you so, much. And I'm so, so glad we met in Hotel Bar Mouy. I'm so grateful for this. And thank you so, much for having me on this. Yeah. On this beautiful podcast. This is really, wow. That means a lot. Thank you.

Aderonke (40:05.55)

it

Aderonke (40:22.69)

Thank you for your time today, Katharina. The appreciation nuggets that I'm taking away from today's conversation are.

Large language models bring us closer to humanity.

Katharina Linnepe (40:41.605)

yes, that's what I said. Wow.

Aderonke (40:44.174)

Laughter is the best self-care tool that you know. And you said this and I found this curious. And so I'm gonna say it, comedy is like a Trojan horse. And Katharina Lineper, I appreciate you taking the time to join me.

on A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories of people you may know. Katharina, thank you.

Katharina Linnepe (41:28.341)

Thank you. Thank you so, much for having me. It was a pleasure.