S2 Ep14. The Art of Continuous Learning: Leadership Lessons from Treva Spencer

In this episode of the ABWilson's Heart of the Matter podcast, host Aderonke Badamosi Wilson interviews Treva Spencer, an innovator, leader, and thinker who shares insights from her personal and professional life.

As an innovator, Treva enjoys collaborating with organizations that prioritize community impact, focusing on course correction and process improvement. As a leader, she emphasizes the importance of constant learning, recognizing the moments when to lead and when to step back and follow. Her analytical nature, described as that of a thinker, drives her to thoroughly evaluate situations and continuously strive to improve interactions and understanding.

Beyond her professional achievements, Treva reveals some surprising personal passions. She recently took up cooking classes, particularly exploring healthy eating recipes. She is also deeply involved in dance and choreography, leading a step team within her sorority and integrating modern dance styles into their performances. In addition, Treva has discovered a passion for teaching and now instructs SHRM certification courses at a local community college.

One of Treva's most recent accomplishments was being featured in her company's Black History Month spotlight, a recognition that was shared internally and on social media platforms.

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Transcript

Aderonke (00:02.277)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest on today's show is Treva Spencer. Treva is an innovator, leader, thinker. Treva.

Welcome to the show.

Treva Spencer (00:33.006)

Good day, Adelanka. Thank you for having me. It is such a joy to spend this time with you.

Aderonke (00:39.409)

So Triva, you and I have known each other, I'm gonna say almost 40 years.

Treva Spencer (00:45.037)

Almost 40 years. Can you believe that? Oh my God.

Aderonke (00:50.451)

What, were we two or three, remember me, man? That's all I got.

Treva Spencer (00:53.506)

look, because I'm still feeling like it was yesterday. I can recall all of our stories. So.

Aderonke (00:59.921)

So, and given that we've known each other for so long, I really want you to take me through your descriptors. Let's start with innovator. Tell me about being an innovator.

Treva Spencer (01:13.035)

I truly believe I'm an innovator because I love working with organizations that help give back to the communities in which I live and which I serve, right? Whether that's professional or personal. And I like to see, get a snapshot of what is happening in the present, see how I can be involved to make the future better. And

do course correct. That is one of my favorite sayings. How do we course correct what is going on in our lives and how it affects ourselves as well as how it affects others. So I try to, but I shouldn't say I try. I am creative and I like to say, but we can do this a little bit better and giving the pros in why it should be changed. I also like to look at processes.

and see how can we advance either the technology or the manual process that we're working on. So not only have I dubbed myself an innovative person, I've heard people tell me that they feel that I have, that's one of my strengths is being innovative. So I embrace it.

Aderonke (02:29.335)

And indeed, and being a leader, what does that look like for you?

Treva Spencer (02:34.559)

Being a leader is to me someone who is constantly learning because you are as good as your last thought, right? And you can't hang your hat on that single thought and continue to believe that's relevant. So I believe that a leader is constantly learning, learning how to better themselves so that they can share their time and their talent with others.

Being a leader is not just being at the helm and taking charge. Being a leader is also knowing when to let go of the reign and allow someone else to lead and you follow to build upon your skills.

Aderonke (03:16.421)

Hmm. And thinker, what does that look like?

Treva Spencer (03:20.978)

my gosh, so I am a heavy thinker. I like to replay scenarios in my head to see how I could have reacted or spoken differently. So I will think about an activity, an action, or an incident to death, to seeing how I could have responded differently. I'm not...

ashamed or regretting my responses, but I always want to improve myself. So I'm always thinking about how I am interacting with others and how others are interacting with me. Right. And I am such a thinker that I'll go back to a person and rehash a conversation to death until I feel like we're on the same page. And sometimes that is a detriment because some people don't like

thoughtful conflict. They don't like where there could be some static. And I do. I think it's healthy. But what I realize, other people don't like it and they feel intimidated. And that's not my intention. My intention is to understand a person better and they understand me. And that's why I have the patience of Joe to keep talking about things so that we can work it out.

Aderonke (04:50.255)

And you said thoughtful conflict. What in your opinion is that? What does that look like?

Treva Spencer (04:56.168)

So to me, thoughtful conflict is when you have two different opinions. We live in such a diverse society, so you have a diversity of thought, diversity in ethnicity, age, gender, socioeconomic differences. So we are not going to agree on subjects at hand. And that's OK. And that's where we need to be more mature as thinkers, as people who want to

live in a civilized environment and be open to other people's line of thought, right? Because I may not agree with you, but you have opened up my eyes and opened up my heart to a different way of thinking, right? And we don't do that enough. We like to argue and say, well, this is what I believe. What you believe may not be necessarily right for today.

It worked for you years ago, but it may not be right for you today. And that's where a lot of us get stuck. And you need to be aware, right? Self-awareness is, I would say, 50 % of success. Because if you're not aware of what is going on with you and those around you, I don't know how people can move forward.

And you know, there's the old saying that if you're on a plane and there is an issue, you have to put on that mask on yourself first to make sure you're right before you can help others. And you see people every day taking the charge, trying to save the world, but they're not doing anything to make themselves better. So that is something that I totally believe in, that I constantly have to work on myself and make sure that I'm educated so that...

As I'm reaching up for myself, I have a hand down grabbing someone else.

Aderonke (06:54.309)

Thank you, Treva. Thank you for sharing your descriptors and going into a little bit more depth. Now, please share three things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Treva Spencer (06:56.046)

You're welcome.

Treva Spencer (07:11.588)

Okay, so three things about myself that people may not know. People may not know that I absolutely enjoy taking cooking classes now. I attend a family live well center locally here in Burton County, New Jersey every Monday evening. It is my work and life balance. So when I get off at five o'clock on Mondays,

My coworkers know that I'm leaving at five o'clock on the dot because I have cooking class at 530. It is for an hour. It is focused on healthy eating recipes. I have never been much of a cooker. I have always been a foodie, but I will pay to have good food. But in this economy, I am aware and I know I need to start saving my dollars instead of spending it all eating out and learn how to cook.

the food that I like and not only that but make sure that the food is healthy because I want to have a sustainable life right you know I'm at the age now where I celebrated a monumental birthday and I'm hoping to celebrate a couple of decades more so I have to eat healthy I had a feed my mind and feed my body with the great nutrients that will keep me going.

Aderonke (08:36.314)

And can I ask, what's your favorite thing to cook right now?

Treva Spencer (08:40.25)

So for Black History Month, we had a theme and out the last Monday in February, we cooked what's called a soul bowl. It was divine, absolutely divine. The soul bowl had yams, collard greens, brown rice, was it top? and ground turkey with some peppers.

some other seasonings. It was absolutely divine. And we always use avocado oil to crisp our pan and cook everything in avocado oil because I hear that is very healthy.

Aderonke (09:25.745)

Okay, excellent. Thank you. Thank you for that recipe. Any other things? Two other things?

Treva Spencer (09:28.214)

You're welcome.

Treva Spencer (09:33.119)

Yes, so secondly, everyone who knows me knows I love to dance. I've been dancing since I was a little girl. If there's a beat, I'm gonna find a way to move to it. But what people may not know is that I have found intense, interesting choreography now that has come late in life. Who knew that I would be involved with, as you know, we are part of an illustrious sorority.

And I am the step team lead at this stage of the game. I'm the step team lead in our organization. And I thought it was to be honest, I thought it was a whim. All right. And that as our, our local chapter grew that someone was going to want to take it over someone who was younger and more nimble, but they keep saying, no, Trigga, we rocking with you. I love it. So, you know, I keep.

I keep abreast of the latest dances so that I can include everyone because I'm all about inclusiveness. So I make sure I know the latest songs, I know the latest dances, and we incorporate it into our presentation. So I'm absolutely enjoying it. And I'm going to keep doing it until my knees decide they don't want to participate any longer. Because my knees and I.

have serious conversations.

Treva Spencer (11:06.246)

It's-

Aderonke (11:06.499)

I identify with the knee issue. can't kneel down anymore. Like it's crazy.

Treva Spencer (11:13.759)

You gotta stretch. You gotta continuously stretch because if we don't, it locks up and that's no good. So they yell up and I look down and say, keep going. We got things to do. We have things to do. and thirdly, people may not know this because I have found this late in life. I love teaching. Oh my God.

So I can tell you, when we were in college.

I majored in English and performing arts, right? Because I thought I was going to go into entertainment and I love writing. But at the time, as an English major, the profession was to become a teacher. I knew I was not going to be anyone's teacher. I was not mature enough and prepared to deal with all those different personalities in one classroom because I was trying to get a hold of my own personality.

That was something I never wanted to do. But I'd say about two years ago, I had the opportunity to teach at night at a local community college in preparing students for the SHRM certification. SHRM is the Society for Human Resources Management. I'm SHRM certified myself, been that way for several years.

And this gives me the opportunity, again, to be a leader, to lend my time and my talent with others. And I find not only am I good at it, but I thoroughly enjoy it, right? So I do that part-time for the past year and a half. I didn't do it this semester because the work responsibilities I have at my full-time job were such it didn't allow me to take on the added responsibility.

Treva Spencer (13:16.25)

and I miss it. I really love working with, so I'm at a community college working with adult students, Adult students, I love connecting with them, because we're not just talking about the curriculum and learning from the books. We're talking about real life situations that we can incorporate with all of the functions that come with human resources, right?

So while I focus on talent acquisition in my profession, I've been doing that over 20 years, having the certification allows me to have experience in all the functionalities of human resources. So I'm able to talk intelligently with these students and help them be successful in taking the exam once they finish my course. And I am so proud to say that my students who have

taken the exam have all passed except for one and this person is looking to take the exam again. Thank you, thank you. So those are, thank you. So those are three fun facts.

Aderonke (14:19.025)

Congratulations. Congratulations. That's a great accomplishment.

Aderonke (14:27.117)

Okay. And so can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Treva Spencer (14:37.082)

Wow. So we're coming off the heels of February, which is Black History Month. And in the end of January, I've been with my company about almost two years now. I work for a pharmaceutical company and I am a member of one of our ERGs, Employee Resource Group, which is called BOLD. Right. And I was approached by Corporate Communication.

at my current company and was asked if they could highlight me for Black History Month because they felt like I was, well, not they, I was recommended to be highlighted for Black History Month because the leaders of the bold ERG, as well as my immediate supervisor, felt like I was doing innovative.

things at the organization. I was so honored. It was huge. They had a corporate communication person and a videographer sit with me in a makeshift studio at the corporate headquarter, did a video, wanted to know about what I do outside of work. I talked about my cooking class.

They did an internal spotlight and an external spotlight. So the internal I was expecting. The external I was not. So I ended up being featured on their social media channels, which are Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And it was a little bit scary because of the climate that we are in today with all the hate.

negativity that is surrounding diversity, equity and inclusion. I was hesitant when they contacted me and said, we're about to go live. And I was getting ready to bring up my concerns and we were on a virtual platform. And I guess the look on my face, one of the communication leaders and one of our leaders of diversity, equity and inclusion said,

Treva Spencer (16:56.458)

We will monitor these channels that are external facing at all times to make sure that we are not bombarded with negativity. We don't want you to be affected. And that meant so much to me because I don't mind being on the forefront and speaking about what I stand for, but it's good to know that someone cares for you. They want to protect you.

And when we speak our truths, it's not just for us. It's about our family members. It's about our friends. It's about the organizations that we belong with. And you never want to put someone in harm's way. So that made me feel really good. I can tell you, I was monitoring the platforms myself. And I saw one negative comment that was posted. And it wasn't a comment.

directed towards me. you know, sometimes we got to get out our own way and not say, my God, somebody is attacking me. The person did not want to celebrate Black History Month and commented on the post, please take me off your list. And I chuckled because this person wasn't smart enough to know they don't have you on a list. You actually follow their social media so you can...

control that, right? So that made me chuckle. So sometimes, you know, we get ready to react when someone is defensive against us, but they haven't thought the whole picture through. So in that instance, I was able to chuckle because I'm saying, you know, the person had something quick to say, but they weren't smart enough to realize that they control their own destiny and their own environment. So let's keep it moving. So I was very proud of that employee spotlight.

Aderonke (18:23.057)

you

Aderonke (18:46.276)

Mm-hmm.

Treva Spencer (18:51.484)

And it makes me feel that the work that I do, the words that I speak, and what I stand for, people are listening and they support it. They don't have to agree with it, but they support

Aderonke (19:05.402)

Thank you and.

Tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Treva Spencer (19:17.726)

time that I made a difference unknowingly, unknowingly made a difference. So I can tell you back in 2011, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was shocked. Breast cancer or cancer period did not run in my immediate family. I am what I have always

identified as a motherless daughter, a fatherless daughter, because I lost my parents at a very young age. So I only knew what they told me. And dealing with cancer with two young children and a recent divorced person was shocking.

All I knew was that I needed the village to come together for my kids. Because I said, if something happened and I didn't make it, I needed people who were there for me to be there for my kids. My son was a high school senior. My daughter was leaving middle school, going to junior high. Telling them was the hardest thing I ever had to do.

and seeing how it affected them was devastating, right? Because you have two kids, two different genders, two different personalities who dealt with it differently, right? I was like a walking...

what would you say, a walking patient. So I would see people and they would say, hey, Treva, how you doing? Well, I'm the person you don't want to ask how I'm doing if you don't have the time to listen. Cause I look, we're going to have a conversation. I'm not doing too good. I have cancer and I have to go for surgery. So I found out in April right before a business trip that my kids and I were going on. And I had to tell them cause I couldn't carry

Treva Spencer (21:25.614)

the suitcases that we were taking because I had some evasive pre-op that would not allow me to put the pressure on my body. So I had to tell them, I had no choice. So found out mid April, May 31st, never forget the date, that'll always be my new birthday. I celebrate twice a year, September baby and then May 31st, because I was given a new life.

So we're talking 2011, it is now 2025, I am still here. So how did I make a difference? Because I persevered. I was not one who cowered and kept things to myself. I spoke aloud, I told people of my fears, I wrote of it, I prayed with people and people asked, what can I do for you? Pray for my family. Keep us in your thoughts.

dropped by a meal, because I had really invasive surgery. Was home for five months and was able to tell the story. So I was invited to various organizations to be a guest speaker, participate in the local breast cancer walk every year in October, was spotlight, I was

one of the testimonials one year. It was such a high to be able to tell my story on stage in front of thousands. We did a survival line similar to a Soul Train line. It was awesome to see a sea of pink. And unbeknownst to me, I started getting phone calls. People that I knew would tell me that they had a family member going through.

a diagnosis and what I'd be open to talking with them. Absolutely. Now, no two situations are the same. Everyone's experience and everyone's journey is going to be different. All I can tell you is what my journey was and how I got through it and be there to answer questions that you may have, but most importantly, tell you the resources that we have available.

Treva Spencer (23:47.585)

There are lot of resources that people don't know. A lot of those resources are free. So American Cancer Society has a lot of resources and I was able to share that with a lot of people. And to this day, my phone still rings and I walk people through their journey. And I'm grateful. I don't take it lightly.

Aderonke (24:14.693)

What would you say was the greatest lesson that you learned? What are you taking away from having survived breast cancer?

Treva Spencer (24:25.408)

The greatest lesson I learned was being optimistic, thinking positive, even when you're scared to death. I remember walking into the hospital May 31st, checking in at the front desk to have surgery and I broke down. I literally almost had a nervous breakdown because I was so afraid. Because I knew what was happening. My doctors all worked together. We talked about the breast surgeon.

We're talking about the plastic surgeon and who was going to be my oncologist because I had a double mastectomy because the cancer had metastasized. And that's what you don't want, right? And I had to get out of my head of how could this happen? What did I do, right? A lot of times cancer can be environmental, can be what you eat and you just don't know, right? Or it can be hereditary. But you don't have all of those factors, right?

And then you want to take a BRCA test, which is a test to see if you're carrying the gene that can actually affect your kids. So I had that test. It was negative, thank God. But my mindset was, I need to beat this. I need to see my kids graduate. I need to see my kids get married. I need to see them do the great things. And I need to keep doing great things and be an example for them. That is what I learned.

Regardless of what happens in our life, we have to persevere. know, life is not going to be a bed of roses. It's not going to always be fun. But when the dark times come, we got to press forward and get through it to get to the other side and say, I have a testum.

Aderonke (26:16.571)

Thank you for sharing your story. And as you indicated, as you were sharing, you've helped others. And I truly believe that somebody listening to this conversation will also be not just supported, but helped and may even reach out to you. So I'll make sure that I put your social media contact on the website. So if anybody that's listening wants to connect with you.

they'll be able to find you. thank you for being giving and being able to help others. And I've said this in the past on this podcast, when I was going through a very difficult time and my first husband died, my mother said to me, you'll use this to help others. And I couldn't see it at the time because it was so devastating and so dark at the time, but I have used it. I have used what I learned.

Treva Spencer (27:03.945)

Bye.

Treva Spencer (27:08.457)

Right.

Aderonke (27:15.131)

during probably one of the darkest times in my life to help others, even if it's just to listen.

Treva Spencer (27:22.376)

great.

We don't know that these stories are needed, right? We wish these stories would go away, but that's not what life is. So we have to deal with what we get and then celebrate the wins thereafter. And while you are talking to me, I'm still celebrating you.

Aderonke (27:44.059)

Thank you, Tree, but thank you so much for sharing. Thank you. And I do remember when you were going through your cancer treatment and the surgery, I remember that. extending healthy energy to you, get well energy at the time.

Aderonke (28:13.677)

What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Treva Spencer (28:23.206)

key strengths and qualities. We talked about persevering, right? Perseverance is definitely needed when anyone goes through something, right? Determination.

Treva Spencer (28:42.003)

and

a positive mindset. Those are the three I would say.

Treva Spencer (28:51.2)

I believe that a lot of times we succumb to issues when we allow the negative thoughts to overtake our mind. Because that's how depression comes into play. That's how defeat comes into play. And that's how hopelessness comes into play. And I refuse to be a person who allows that to happen. Listen.

Cancer wasn't the first, that was the first health issue I went through, but life was tough, right? Life wasn't something I can get up and say, I had a great life growing up. There was some bumps and bruises. There was some roller coasters, but I knew at a young age that I wanted to do differently, right? So I knew that I had to have grit. I had to have that determination. I had to have that vigor to be successful.

and to change the dynamics of what I knew and what I grew up with. Right? So not to say that I had an awful childhood, I just knew I wanted differently. And there's nothing wrong with that. Right? We as individuals have to say, what could I do differently to make my life better? And then push the needle and say, and how can I make others better? Don't settle in, you know, being mediocre.

And that's something I don't think I will ever do. As I'm getting older, am I getting tired? Absolutely. But I try to push the needle just a little bit further every day. So by the end of the day, I go, I'm exhausted. And people go, why are you so tired? So tired. And I go, well, let me tell you what I did today. And it could be one thing that really made the difference. And I'm thinking of, can I share a story with you?

Aderonke (30:49.143)

Absolutely, go ahead.

Treva Spencer (30:49.783)

So in work, as I said, I work in talent acquisition and my focus really is to attract the best talent for an organization. I tout myself as a brand ambassador, but I'm working on both sides, not just for the company. I'm working for the individual to help them find the best job, the best job for them to make them a successful in their career. And then

pair the two together, the job seeker and the hiring manager to make sure that that's a marriage that's good, it's healthy and it's gonna grow. So, a couple of months ago, I was tasked with finding a leadership, I had a leadership role and I always try to look for diverse talent. Why? Because that's just who I am, right? I want to make sure that our workers mirror the customers.

the clients in the communities that we work in. I had been that way for years before it was even popular, to be very honest. This one woman, she had some gifts, wasn't as exposed in the industry as some of the other, of her competitors, some of the other job seekers. And the final interviews were between her and...

someone who'd been in the industry and could, it was a plug and play. That's what we call in the industry. could step in the role, do the job. She would need to have some more handholding to be a success in the role. And I was rooting for her. And my manager came back to me and said, no, the manager, the hiring manager went to my supervisor and she told me, I was disappointed. First of all, I have a relationship with my hiring manager. Talk to me directly.

because then the act of persuasion comes from me directly to you, not a third party situation. I was very disappointed. So I pushed back and I said to her, did he tell you why? And she mumbled a reason and I said, listen, we stand for being inclusive, being diverse in our talent. And I sourced this talent.

Treva Spencer (33:13.61)

for you, for the company, and are we going to practice what we preach or are going to set that aside? And she said, I'm going to take this back to them. It was emotionally exhausting for me, emotionally exhausting because I put time into this anticipating that we were going to find this person a new role. Unbeknownst to me, my supervisor got on it immediately that night.

came back to me the next day with an email said, this is what I sent out. This is the response. The response was favorable. They said, thank you for pushing the envelope. We're going to find this person a home. Two months later, she didn't get that role. And they explained the reason behind it totally made sense and support her. I was frustrated because I didn't get the reason why.

And sometimes that's what happens. We tend to interpret what we think is happening instead of finding out what it really is. Two months later, she was hired. And to me, that determination, that push, that voice of reason, that was a communal effort, not just my effort. She ended up being hired. And that was a high for me. That was just amazing. And those are the kind of things that I do because it's the right thing to do.

because I want a diverse hire, but I believe this person's talent would be great for the organization because it'll allow us to think differently, to see things differently, and to connect with our clients. Right? If we all look the same, speak the same, and have the same background, we have different clients. How are we going to be able to connect with them?

So I just wanted to share that.

Aderonke (35:07.601)

And thank you in sharing it. You've been able to give voice to why diversity is important, why we must continue to let others into the room so that, and be heard, and be heard. You can be in a room and sitting there and nobody's listening, but, be heard and make a difference, right? And I remember young in my career,

Treva Spencer (35:31.836)

Yes.

Aderonke (35:35.193)

I always wanted to be in the room. People used to say you have to be in the room at the table where the decisions are being made in order for different decisions to be made. And if you're at the table, if you're in the room at the table, you have to be able to speak up. And that's what I heard in your story. You were able to speak up and help others to see the importance of people that may not look like them making a valuable contribution.

Treva Spencer (36:04.057)

Absolutely.

And you gotta know when to let the fight go, right?

Aderonke (36:09.166)

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Aderonke (36:14.344)

And that's important for your own sanity, right?

Treva Spencer (36:16.07)

Yes, yes.

Aderonke (36:19.387)

So, Treva, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? And what did you learn from that experience?

Treva Spencer (36:31.077)

So tying back to work, mean, there are challenges every day because sometimes what you believe is the right thing to do is going against the grain of the organization and majority rules. That could be in your company, that can be in professional associations, organizations that you are in. And you have to learn to accept what the decision is and not be affected negatively.

We should learn to agree to disagree and still have respect for

I'm not gonna go down in flames in something that I believe in when I have five or more people looking at me and going, no, we don't think that's the right thing to do or it's not the right time. Right? Okay. I may not agree with it, but I have to go with it. Right? I can't fall on the swore and go down in flames because that's what I believe. Right? I could, people have choices. You can either,

Aderonke (37:20.721)

Hmm.

Treva Spencer (37:39.534)

fight the good fight and stand on your principles and break relationships. You can persuade others to follow pursuit and then you have to really be the leader that you're speaking about. Or you can just like agree and then harbor such animosity that the relationships are never to be repaired again.

And I'm sure people can identify with one of the three I just spoke about. What I'm saying is, let's learn to take the road that says, we can agree to disagree. I have to, you know, sit this one out and go with the majority and help where I can be of help. And that's what I had to learn because earlier in life,

I stood on my principles, lost a lot of friendships because I'm like, what you trying to do is not correct. And I'm not going to be a part of that. Sometimes you should be there. If you call that person an acquaintance or a friend, you should be there to course correct the words that I used early on when I started to course correct and help people get to the finish line. It's not always about ourselves, right? And I think

that comes with maturity and that comes with life lessons that we need to sometimes take a deep breath and say, okay, let's do it your way. Let's try it your way. But be there in case your expertise or your consulting skills are needed so you can step up and do what you do.

Aderonke (39:25.839)

And I think that comes with age. I did not have that when I was in my early 20s when I was banging my head and my hands against doors and feeling that I can take on the world. And now that we are older, you look at life differently, right? Because you've had experiences, you've banged your head against the wall and probably dented the wall and maybe your head at the same time.

Treva Spencer (39:36.77)

Yes.

Treva Spencer (39:46.752)

Yes.

Aderonke (39:55.641)

And then you figure, okay, maybe I don't need to dent my head each time I have a disagreement.

Treva Spencer (40:00.948)

Adiranka, though that is my mantra. I like to help others in this point in my life and earlier because I had to learn the hard way. And I don't want other people to do this. It's not fun. I'm like, just approach it differently. When I managed internship programs, I used to tell my students who were in undergrad, I'm like, come to me, talk to me before you

What do they say today? Crash out. When I hear that saying, I think it's hysterical because that's what people do. They crash out. You get to a point where you've had enough and you either crashing out or you're blacking out, you know, or you're having an outer body experience. We just don't need to put that pressure on our bodies and on our minds. So let's figure out a different way to deal with things, you know, and sometimes we have to walk away.

which will preserve your sanity. Sometimes you gotta walk away. But what I had to learn was I don't need to get my point across and say, well, I told that person because then now I'm feeling horrible. I'm like, my God, I just destroyed this person, but I got my point across. That shouldn't happen, right? So that's why I always like talking with people.

Making myself available when people say can I can I talk to you for a minute? You sure can I'm not gonna turn anywhere one away or Set it up for a different time if I can't deal with you right then and there set it up for a different time because I wish I had somebody when I was younger My god in those 20s and 30s. Whoa, I'm with

Aderonke (41:47.697)

Before we go to the break, one of the things, I often think, right, I probably did have people that were trying to tell me, calm down, slow down, take it easy, but I weren't listening, right? I was just like, no, this is the right way. Nobody's listening. And so, but you learn, you, hopefully, hopefully you learn, but you do learn.

Treva Spencer (42:03.464)

Right.

Aderonke (42:15.569)

along the way and sometimes you learn the hard way. And sometimes if you, you talked about self-awareness, if you have self-awareness, you can perhaps say, here are others before you get to the point of, as you've said, crashing out. So, Treva, thank you.

Treva Spencer (42:31.07)

Mm-hmm.

Aderonke (42:36.067)

You are listening to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Treva Spencer. Treva, we've talked about your journey as a cancer survivor. We've looked at your career. We've looked at how we show up today in our mature years.

What self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Treva Spencer (43:14.226)

Self care activities is having a working personal life balance. That's important. You know, I talked about earlier about taking my cooking classes. That's important to me. That gives me a time to exhale and do something that I like. Then I get to eat the food. So that is awesome. I also talked about dancing. I love dancing. When I was in high school, my

yearbook picture had a quote that said, is the words of angels. And I don't know who said that quote, but it was so profound to me because music I feel just moves my soul. makes me feel better. So I continue to listen to music and dance at any time. I'm that person that's dancing like no one's watching.

right, whether I'm in my car, on the dance floor. And sometimes I can be seen moving in my sorority meetings too. And they're like, Treva. And I'm like, sorry.

Treva Spencer (44:31.07)

and the other thing that I do is I love writing, right? Writing is cathartic to me, right? I'm going to be honest. So I'm a published author.

And I'm stuck. need to get another book out of me. And I keep doing everything else and not focusing on my book. So 2025, I have got to pour into me and to really get that third book out. I had attributed to writer's block. I have attributed to other priorities. And if we're going to talk about self-awareness,

I need to say I haven't been working on my craft and doing what I need to do because that will bring me peace, will bring me joy. I am vowing right here today on March 7th that I will be working on that. Two, three is my favorite number. So if I have that third published book, that'll bring me some sense of completion.

Aderonke (45:46.615)

Two things. Tell me the names of your other two books so our listeners can go out and look for them.

Treva Spencer (45:54.063)

So they're written under my pen name, which is TJ Dupree. Dupree was my married name. TJ are my initials, Treva Janisse. And the first book is Conversations with Mom, a collection of short stories, how kids say the funniest things. Excuse me. Second book is Memorable Parented Moments, Conversations with Family, Volume Two, an extension of the same subject.

Aderonke (46:27.501)

And do you think your therapy will be along the same line?

Treva Spencer (46:31.241)

No, because I have adultery now. They're no longer children. I call them adultery. They're still my children, but they are adults. So we got to get a different subject matter. I want to write a novel. I want to write a coming of age story. I've written a horror short story, but I do want to write a coming of age to really

You know, we as women, we are resilient. We have stories to tell. And I don't think there are enough out there. I'm an avid reader, but there's still room for more, right? So in sharing my story, it'll be for my benefit, but if it'll be interesting to others, that is extra happiness for me.

Aderonke (47:21.051)

And I know a few years ago when I was really looking at my photography, I got an art coach. I got an art photography coach. Have you thought about getting a writing coach?

Treva Spencer (47:32.853)

I may need to, to kind of get me into Kickstart, right? So thank you. I will definitely look into that.

writing that down.

Aderonke (47:43.511)

Okay, good, good. And my coach, she really helped me around my photography and gave me insight that I just didn't have. And so the work that she and I did together served me well. So I'll pass that little nugget on to you.

Treva Spencer (47:47.702)

Ahem.

Treva Spencer (47:55.82)

Mm-hmm.

Treva Spencer (48:03.083)

I appreciate that because we all need help, right? And speaking about this subject right now tells me that is something I definitely need to look into.

Aderonke (48:07.023)

Yeah. Yeah.

Aderonke (48:15.717)

How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Treva Spencer (48:24.444)

So a positive effect on my family is I'm all about legacy. I'm all about creating an imprint of positivity, of success, of being resilient for my two adult children. What I do, I think about what I do, what I say, and

what I touch upon because people are always looking at you. You may think they're not looking at you, but they are. know, I have a son and I have a daughter and they hang on my words. So I'm very aware of what I say and do. Most importantly, sometimes I don't make the right decision, but what's important is that I go back to them and go, let me tell you about this.

and it wasn't right because of X, Y, and Z. And I'm telling you this because I want you to make better choices.

I have candid conversations with them when, know, because they wanted to know as they got older why their dad and I were divorced. I was honest, right? And I was able to tell them, had I been more mature and had, you know, my mother or mother figure at the time to kind of help me work through the craziness that was going on in my head, it might not have ended the way it did, right?

And they appreciate that because you want to give these nuggets to not only your family, but people you work with and people you may be mentoring because they're looking at you and they see you as an example. And if you're not willing to walk in a line of positivity or recognize what you could have done differently.

Treva Spencer (50:26.45)

The people who are looking at you that may not be related to you will follow that same suit and go, I admire this person. So if they did it, it's right. No, that's not true. So when you step out of line and do something, don't hide your head and go, prayerfully nobody brings this up, right? And we won't have to deal with it. We have to hold each other accountable. Call me on my stuff and go, let's talk about this. And if I'm wrong,

I owe you an apology or I owe someone else an apology and hopefully we can move past it. So I think that's very important.

Aderonke (51:12.111)

What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Treva Spencer (51:20.837)

Wow, I have a short term project coming up that my organization that I work with is partnering with a national conference that I actually am taking the lead on. I'm actually taking a lead on and having a presence during that conference this summer. I'm very excited about it because it is

a conference focused on diversity, early career talent, as well as professional season talent. And I get to create this, have a presence and connect the dots with people who are looking for job opportunities and our organization that has job opportunities, right? I totally believe that whatever organization I'm working for,

that when I'm talking to people that they see us as an employer of choice. I worked for a water utility company for years. I always say that's where I grew up professionally. When you think about a water utility company, that was not diverse when I first started there. You can count the people on one hand that looked like me. And I had a good conversation with the senior vice president of HR. I said to him, I have a thought.

And he said, I'll listen to your thought. We made it happen. We made the company and I'm no longer there today. But when I look back at the company, I go, wow, I really had a hand in really changing the dynamics. The senior vice president has since retired. We keep in touch. He'll post shout outs to me on LinkedIn and he goes, you're still knocking down doors and I love it. And that makes me feel.

Aderonke (53:17.755)

Well, good luck with your conference that's coming up. I look forward to, hopefully if you post online, I'll get a chance to see it. Triva, you've talked about your books and I will definitely note them on the website under your interview. What book recommendations do you have?

Treva Spencer (53:25.025)

Yes.

Aderonke (53:45.306)

And it could have been, it could be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Treva Spencer (53:52.725)

Right now I'm reading Harlem Rhapsody by Victoria Christopher Murray. It's a new book. I think it's been out only a month. Victoria Christopher Murray is a well-known author. She has been writing for over 20 years, I believe, as numerous books, but she's shifted and is writing about real-time history right now. And Harlem Shuffle,

is about a woman who was the literary editor of the Crisis Magazine, which was managed by the NAACP. Takes place in Harlem. Harlem on my mind all the time. That's where I was born and raised. So I love any book that captures the essence of Harlem, because it's the best city bar none. learning about how this woman

was, her name was Fawcett, how this woman was responsible for County Cullen bringing us, Miss Toomer, bringing us, I mean, just.

numerous writers bringing them to life in the crisis.

This is a fact-based book, but it also talks about her relationship with W.E. Du Bois. the man was married.

Treva Spencer (55:25.855)

Not to her. And...

I recently participated in an author discussion with her and it's fascinating to hear the story told of famous African Americans, not so much when we hold them in such high esteem and we find out that's not so. So that all ties back into what I've been talking about all day, right? None of us are perfect.

It is a reminder. So when I first picked up the book, had to clutch my pearls. said, my God, what is happening here? Right. But it all ties back into none of us are perfect. We're doing the best that we can. And at some point it may be sooner rather than later, sometimes not till we on our death bed, we will make amends and go, maybe I should have done this differently. It doesn't take away.

from the dynamic person that you are, it just shows that we're human. And I had to really come to terms with that in reading this book.

And I am, I keep telling myself, Treva, read about the history, love the history, enjoy the people, know, learn about, you know, people who started our sorority. We talk about name dropping jewels in this book. And then when you get the chapter that deals with their relationship, read that as well, because it's all about human dynamics, right? And.

Treva Spencer (57:09.841)

If we haven't gone through a dynamic such as that, count yourself lucky. If you have, pat yourself on the back for being out of it now. And if you still going through it, figure it out and work it out to the best of your ability.

Aderonke (57:27.611)

Thank you for that guidance. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sure somebody somewhere needs to hear those words. Treva, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts as we prepare to close our conversation today?

Treva Spencer (57:45.053)

I appreciate your time. appreciate the opportunity to connect with you real time and chat about life. I appreciate your listeners. I hope there's a nugget in something that I have said. We all have words of wisdom. Let's build each other up. Let's come together and

Remember that strength happens in numbers. It's the ties that bond us from here to eternity. And let's keep being a force to reckon with in this world.

Aderonke (58:26.865)

Treva, thank you for your time today. I've taken away some appreciation nuggets, which I'm going to share with you. You are as good as your last thought, as something that you said early in our conversation.

Aderonke (58:48.845)

You also indicated.

your love and appreciation for music and dancing. And you said, music moves my soul and makes me feel better. And a third nugget that I'm gonna take away is that you're creating a legacy for your children. I'm creating an imprint of positivity and success.

Treva Spencer (59:04.988)

Mm-hmm.

Aderonke (59:23.153)

for your adult children. Treva, thank you. Thank you for your time today. I appreciate you taking the time to join me on A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories of people you may know. And I'm going to close out this way. Treva, I appreciate you. You are always my back.

Treva Spencer (59:24.422)

Yes.

Treva Spencer (59:50.65)

Yes.

Absolutely! Remember these glasses.

Treva Spencer (01:00:04.953)

Ha ha ha!

Aderonke (01:00:10.85)

So I wanted to make sure I ended with an acknowledgement of how we got to know each other. So Trin, but thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Treva Spencer (01:00:20.662)

Mwah!

Absolutely. Absolutely, front. Always.

Aderonke (01:00:30.915)

You