S2 Ep17. Freedom as a Practice: Gherdai Hassell on Creativity and Co-Creation

In this inspiring episode, host Aderonke Bademosi Wilson sits down with international artist Gherdai Hassell to explore powerful themes of freedom, creativity, and dreaming. Gherdai opens up about her personal journey, one rooted in a deep desire for freedom across all areas of life: personal, financial, and creative. Rather than seeking a final destination, she embraces the ongoing process of becoming, constantly evolving through her experiences.

One of the central themes of the conversation is living free. Gherdai shares what freedom means to her, describing it as a life rooted in authenticity and spiritual alignment. As she navigates her personal and creative paths, she emphasizes the importance of honoring her truth and making choices that align with her core values.

Gherdai also offers profound insights into creativity, not just as a profession, but as a way of life. She views each day as an opportunity to create, expressing herself fully and intentionally. For her, it's about being a producer, not just a consumer and infusing every moment with imagination and purpose.

A key part of Gherdai's philosophy is the idea of co-creation. She speaks about co-creating her life in partnership with a higher energy or God, highlighting the power of choice and perception in shaping our lived experiences. This perspective fuels her artistic expression and personal growth.

The episode also delves into the dreamer’s mindset. Gherdai reclaims the term dreamer, seeing it as a symbol of hope, power, and potential. For her, dreaming is an ongoing process of setting new goals, imagining possibilities, and courageously stepping into the unknown.

Of course, no creative path is without its challenges. Gherdai candidly discusses her relationship with fear and resistance, two constant companions in the life of an artist. Drawing inspiration from Steven Pressfield’s The War of Art, she explains how she has learned to walk with fear and take consistent action despite it.

Adding a personal touch, Gherdai shares her passion for learning and new interests outside of her studio. She recently picked up roller skating and continues to explore sewing as an extension of her artistic practice, always looking for new ways to grow and express herself.

A recent milestone in Gherdai’s career underscores her commitment to her craft: a groundbreaking solo exhibition at the Masterworks Museum in Bermuda. As the first contemporary artist to have the museum’s entire collection removed for a solo show, she marks this achievement as a turning point in her career and her collaborative artistic journey.

This episode is a heartfelt conversation about growth, empowerment, and the creative journey, filled with wisdom and encouragement for anyone striving to live authentically and fearlessly. Whether you're an artist, a dreamer, or simply someone navigating your own path, Gherdai’s story is sure to resonate.

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Transcript

Aderonke (00:00.88)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest on today's show is Gherdai Hassell. Gherdai is a free, creative, dreamer.

Gherdai, thank you and welcome to the show.

Gherdai (00:33.496)

Thank you so much for having me. I know it's been a while since you've been planning for me to come. So I'm thrilled that we finally found the time for me to join you today.

Aderonke (00:42.174)

And I am very happy that you found the time in your schedule. I know that you're super busy. And so I'm super, super pleased to have you here. So I wanna look at your descriptors. Tell me what free means to you. What does that look like?

Gherdai (01:02.762)

Yes, so I decided to use that word because that is actually something that I have been striving for in my personal and creative life. I have been on this quest and this journey to live my life as free as possible in all aspects. So whether it is personal freedom, financial freedom.

freedom to express myself creatively in the ways in which I see fit. I want to be as wild and as free to be exactly who I am, to be as authentic and as closest to the person that I feel that I am on a spiritual level as possible.

Aderonke (01:56.348)

And do you see yourself there or are you still evolving and moving in that direction?

Gherdai (02:03.638)

You know, I really believe it's more so about the journey. I don't think there's ever a time where we have fully arrived. I believe that we are in a constant and perpetual state of becoming. So I also see it like on a spectrum. So sometimes I feel closer to that. Sometimes I feel further away. So it, you know, it fluctuates. And I think that speaks to the essence of like what it means to be a human being in general and just sort of these like

natural ebbs and flows of life. And so, no, I'm not there, but you know, it's somewhere that I'm always sort of like striving and working towards. And I'm okay with that. Like I'm okay with like the idea of becoming rather than this idea of having arrived.

Aderonke (03:00.51)

Tell me about creative. What does that look like? And I know that you're an international artist. How does that define you in your day, your day-to-day activities?

Gherdai (03:18.996)

Yeah, so I'm an artist. I've decided to live my life as an artist. But you know, I think even larger than this sort of role that I am playing in my life or this career path that I'm following is this idea of trying to live my life in a creative manner. And so I view life as a creative act in general.

And so I feel like that exists for all of us. Like we're creative beings. Like we can literally do anything and bring creativity to it. So like we're really co-creating our lives. And that is the way that I try to approach my day-to-day life. I try to be as inventive and creative and self-expressive as possible.

I want to always be in alignment with my truth. And so I think about ways in which I can show up and make always in a perpetual state of making, always thinking about more so being a producer rather than a consumer. So I'm always wanting to like do things or create things. And so I think it made sense for me to become a

an artist of some sort, because that sort of requires me to lean into this idea of making. But I also like this idea of creative as a way of life. Like I want to live a creative life. And that's what I'm always striving towards.

Aderonke (05:09.35)

And so you said we are co-creating our lives. What does that mean? What does that mean to you?

Gherdai (05:17.646)

Yeah, so, you know, I believe that there is this ever-present...

Gherdai (05:29.496)

thing, whether you can call it whatever you like, you can call it God, can call it energy, can call it spirits, something that's alive, like within all of us. And I personally believe that God has given us free will to co-create with God, like this energy that exists, this life source. And so we have the free will to co-make.

co-create. Yes, we have, you know, certain things that parameters that we've already sort of been assigned when we were birthed into this world. But I believe that we have the ability to and we have the free will to make choice to do whatever it is that we want to do to make our lives, to make our experiences. And that I feel like that is like very much so like connected with perception.

Because two people can have two identical things happening to them, but the outcome would be totally different based upon someone's perception towards that thing. And so I feel like the fact that we can choose, the fact that we have a right to choice and perception is the differentiator. That's the part where you get to be creative. That's the part where you get to make or unmake based on decision-making.

And so I really believe that this idea of co-creation is our power source, it's where I try to live my life from. it's one of the things that I am passionate about and really what I believe is like my overarching common thread and messaging in all the things that I do, whether it's my art, whether it's my artist talk, speaking to different people.

my relationships, all of these things, there's a commonality there and that's always rooted in people becoming closer to their highest truth, whatever that is for them.

Aderonke (07:41.576)

Thank you. And being a dreamer, what is that? What does that look like?

Gherdai (07:48.278)

Yeah, so I have always been one of those people who believe that we can be do or have anything that we want. I've always sort of adopted that as my personal mantra. And I believe tied in with that is this idea or this ability to dream or to conjure up whatever it is that

we want for ourselves. And so I'm in a constant state of dreaming all the time. So it's like when I have one thing that I want to do, I set out to do it. And then once I've done that, you know, it's like, what's the next thing that I want to dream about? Or what's the next thing that I can achieve or experience or have that will, you know, please me or carry me to some place or

allow me to be able to share space and time with people. And I'm always doing that. I'm always thinking of, okay, how can I dream up larger things for my life? And yeah, so I would consider myself a dreamer. think it's funny. I think about like my childhood, like there was like this time where someone would say, yeah, dreamer. Like.

in Bermuda where people would say that like someone's like hands are in the clouds or something, but I've sort of like leaned into the term and sort of like reclaimed it to mean something else.

Aderonke (09:22.718)

Hmm

Thank you. Thank you so much. And so I would like our listeners to learn a little bit more about you. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Gherdai (09:33.272)

Okay.

Gherdai (09:43.576)

Three interesting things about me.

I would say I really love...

learning that's like one of the biggest things about me like I'm always like reading constantly like listening to different audiobooks and things like that. Secondly, this year I am on a quest to like pick up new hobbies and I've found an interest in wanting to learn how to skate. I don't know how to skate but I

I want to, I want to develop it as a hobby because I'm always wanting to learn something new. Even in my artistic practice, learning how to sew was one of the hobbies that I picked up and I was like, okay, I'm gonna learn how to sew. don't know how to. And now sewing has become a part of my studio practice. And so I love the idea of not knowing how to do something.

that being like a challenge that's in front of me that I constantly am like trying to strive towards to overcome like I could literally do anything like if I try so I'm always like choosing things that I don't know anything about and sort of like going after it so that I would say that's the second thing and then for the third thing it's slightly I guess a bit more personal but

Gherdai (11:25.72)

Fear is ever present in my life. And it is something that I have been working through constantly ever since I decided to become an artist. I became an artist because I was so afraid to do so. And usually I know that like when we...

If we follow the fear or if we follow the thing that frightens us the most, it's usually so much reward on the other side of that. And so fear is always here. And it seems like at every juncture, at every point where I need to like elevate my life in some way, or form, I feel it deeply and like, like further. And it's like,

it's harder to overcome. So yeah, I would say those things.

Aderonke (12:26.238)

So what do you do to push through the fair? Because sometimes when people face fear or they brush up against it, they tend to stop and say, okay, let me back away from this. So the fact that you have leaned into walkthrough, walk past your fear, how do you do that?

Gherdai (12:49.548)

You know, it's so funny. I don't even know if I would say that I have walked past it because it's like I walk with it. It's here all the time with me. And it's like every time I do something else, there is something else that I feel afraid to do. And so there's this idea of resistance. There's this book called... What's the name of the book?

It is not Turning Pro, but it's like The War on Art by Steven Pressfield. He also wrote Turning Pro, which is also a good book, which speaks about like turning from an amateur to a professional. But The War on Art is such a pivotal book for me in my life. And he talks about this idea of resistance, like this...

sort of pushback that you feel when it shows up in so many different ways in your life. So it could show up as you just having, you know, self-doubt. It could show up as distraction. It could show up as a relationship, like something that will take you away from your work in some way, shape or form. And right now, this period that I'm in, I've experienced that on such deep levels.

in so many different ways, in so many different aspects of my life. So it literally feels like I'm fighting for my life. Like it feels like that because I'm like trying to push through and you know, I have ideas, I have, you know, projects that I want to do. And the resistance is there every day. I wake up and I feel a resistance towards doing the things that I need to do or doing the things I want to do or to achieve in.

in whatever capacity. And so the only way that I've been able to manage it and to work through it is to just consistently show up. That's it. And so I try to like, if I have something that I need to do, I just have to just do it, like respond. And action.

Gherdai (15:14.578)

is like a superpower and I feel like action drives me forward. So if I feel resistance, a lot of times I will procrastinate on something. But the only way that I can get over that or pass that is if I act. And it seems like the longer it takes or that gap between that anxiety that I feel between not doing something and actually executing that gap,

the more space that I leave between those two moments, the anxiety grows and grows and grows and grows. And the only thing that fixes it is action. That's it. I don't think there's any other magical way to, yeah, try to like work through that besides just doing the thing that feels most fearful or whatever I'm having, like the most resistant swords.

Aderonke (16:13.488)

I get it, I do get it. And I read that book quite a few years ago and it helped me to understand. And I'm trying to just remember if you recommended the book to me, if I read it before you and I met. But I remember reading it to help me understand what I needed to do as an artist, like when procrastination strikes, when...

Gherdai (16:18.882)

Okay.

Aderonke (16:38.15)

I don't pick up my camera for a few weeks or I go to pick it up and then something else distracts me, forcing myself to go take pictures, go do something creative so that I stay in the rhythm of my art. yeah, actually I'm gonna, I think I have it on my Kindle. I'm gonna go back and look for it. And yeah.

Gherdai (16:38.574)

Yeah.

Gherdai (17:04.202)

that's good. Yeah, I always return to it. I've probably read it about six times now. That's how ever-present resistance is for me. And that book always sort of helps me to like re-center myself.

Aderonke (17:17.527)

Hmm. And you mentioned skating. Is that ice skating, roller skating, what kind of skating?

Gherdai (17:24.294)

I would say roller skating. or the what's the one with the four wheels? Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Aderonke (17:30.302)

Yeah, that's roller skating. Two on each side, right? OK, because the other one's inline skating.

Gherdai (17:39.104)

Yeah, with just the one blade, no. I gotta learn with the four first. Yeah, so I want to learn. I haven't yet. I have, and that's the thing, like I got skates for Christmas and it's now, what is it? It's April and I haven't skated yet. So yeah, check in with me at the end of the year and see.

Aderonke (17:43.304)

Well

Aderonke (17:53.404)

April.

Aderonke (18:01.83)

I'll check in with you. So, Jarday, can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Gherdai (18:12.714)

Yes, so just recently I had an exhibition at Masterworks Museum in Bermuda and that exhibition for me was such a pivotal moment for me in my career because it sort of completed what I had in my mind as sort of like the tour or what I or the organizations I needed to work with in Bermuda.

for me to feel like, okay, I've done well as an artist. Like I've worked with the National Museum, Bermuda National Gallery, and Masterwork sort of felt like the third and final piece of doing that tour. And so that was like a personal goal that I had for myself. And I'm particularly proud of the opportunity to show that work that I showed there because...

it was the first time that they had ever removed their collection for a contemporary artist. No other artists had a major contemporary exhibition of their work in that space before. And so that for me felt like an honor to be able to step into and to tackle and to transform the space into sort of like

my own inner world in a sense. And that's also what I really love about installation and exhibition building is it is this idea of world building. And so I felt like that was special that I had the opportunity to do it in that space. I also was really happy about working with Aisha Townsend and Essence Aikman and Hannah Bushara who did the music.

on the film, because it was also the first time that I've done a collaborative work with other artists as well. And so that felt like a shift for me in my practice. Usually I'm like in my studio, like working alone. so working with other artists to bring the exhibition to life felt particularly special as well. And so it sort of has acted as like a marker for

Gherdai (20:35.146)

new beginnings and sort of like a new chapter in my professional life, my personal life and sort of like what I feel like is possible to make with other people as well.

Aderonke (20:49.394)

Well, congratulations on the show. came to the opening, but then I went back to just spend time in the space to really absorb and look at the images and the world, as you said, the world that you've created. And I got a chance to really, I think, connect with some of the pieces.

And so when I think of it, I'm still seeing, I think there was a mother-daughter image that you had there. And I'm like, that connected with me in a really, and I think I stood in front of it for a while just looking at it and was like, okay. And so congratulations on that. And I know it was a huge deal here in Bermuda and a significant.

Gherdai (21:39.074)

Thank you.

Aderonke (21:44.72)

a marker in your career. So I'm really excited for you. And I'm looking forward to seeing what's next.

Gherdai (21:51.798)

Yeah, thank you. And thank you so much for coming and attending the opening. I was really happy to see you there. And yeah, it's, you know, it's super special for me always, as a Bermudian, like not living at home, to always return with the work because I make work about what it means to be Bermudian. And I feel like having the work in Bermuda in some capacity every year.

is something that I am always sort of like striving towards because being away from home is tough, especially if you're making work about Bermuda, right? So I always make a point to go back home and it's super special for me when my people get to experience the work. And I feel like that sort of completes it. Like, yes, I'm in the studio, like making it, it's fine. But like for me, the real...

gift of it is seeing when people are with it and taking whatever they're taking from it.

Aderonke (22:58.846)

So please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Gherdai (23:09.838)

It's so tough to see how you've made an impact on someone else's life as the person who is doing the giving, right? It's like...

Gherdai (23:24.266)

It's interesting to think about. It's really interesting to think about because I can say so in so many instances how other people have changed my life. But to sit on the other side of that and be like, I changed this person's life. It's sort of tough to be able to say that.

But you know, I really believe that my presence within the arts community in Bermuda is particularly important. And I don't know how many people that has reached. don't, like that's not something really that I can measure.

But I just knew, I knew that when I was going to step forward as an artist, working today, that I wanted to see someone who was like me doing something, like a young person, a young black woman, someone who at the particular time, and I decided to become an artist, I had no arts background. So also someone who at the time, initially, when I made the decision was self-taught.

I just wanted to see someone else do something. And so I felt like, okay, well, if no one else is stepping forward or doing something, like I need to be the one to do it. And so, you know, there have been moments where people have shared with me, like, you know, it's just great to see the things that you're doing and the work is inspiring. And so I feel like just my presence in making the things that I'm making has changed.

the landscape has changed the conversation has changed the opportunities that other people have been afforded by way of me stepping forward by way of me being there to open the door. And that's one of the things that I wanted to do is like open the door and then leave it open so other people can come behind. And so I don't know the larger cultural impact that that

Gherdai (25:37.876)

will leave or the legacy that that will leave but I just know that it was important for me to do something about that and so yeah I don't know maybe maybe the question you could ask maybe someone else but like it's hard for me to say like I've changed this person's life in some way you know but I do believe that my presence has changed at least the cultural and artistic landscape in Romita.

Aderonke (26:06.926)

And I would agree with you as a artist, as a self-taught artist myself, I just wanna say to you that you're not just inspiring the next generation, you're inspiring the generation before you as well. When I look at myself, I'm probably X number of years older than you. And I look at your work and I get inspiration.

because you are doing, you are living, you are breathing. And so that's always a reminder to me that pick up your camera, go pick up your camera, go take some pictures, go do something else, have another exhibition, try and get in another gallery. And I know that when you and I spent some time together in Manchester, we went to a few galleries and you taught me, like I had no idea that you go and do the research. I'm not sure how I thought you did it, but you,

Gherdai (26:41.89)

Yeah.

Gherdai (26:59.553)

Yes.

Aderonke (27:02.842)

as an artist do things. But I learned from you that short period of time, I thought, okay, I'm learning how to do as an artist on the ground. And so that got me thinking in different ways as well. And so I would say your inspiration goes both ways for those coming after us, but those who are striving

who may be older than you as well.

Gherdai (27:33.888)

That means so much to me. Thank you. It really means a lot to me because I believe cross-generational conversation is extremely important because like you said, the learning is like a two-way. It's a two-way street for sure. So thank you for that.

Aderonke (27:55.74)

What are the key strengths and qualities you rely on to make a difference?

Gherdai (28:10.04)

So I would say my greatest strength would be my authenticity. This sort of personal truth telling is extremely important for me because every person has their own sort of unique way of showing up and existing in the world. And for me,

The only person that I know how to be best is myself. That's the only thing that I can do. Trying to emulate someone else's story or someone else's path is not a part of my personal power. And so I, the only way that I can sort of conjure up a power to do something is to lean on my story, my experience, my

truth, personal position in this world. That's something that I feel like is the thing that I lean on. the second thing I would say is my ability to storytell. I feel like storytelling and world building is a huge part of my artistic practice and I'm using my own personal story.

to draw a direct line from my own life and the things that I live and experience and see, do, people that I meet, conversations that I hear, to draw a direct line between my life and my art. And I feel like that translation in whatever sort of nugget that is, there's a potency that exists there. And...

I think that I have been able to sort of find what is special in that translation. And I just tried to lean into that as much as possible.

Aderonke (30:23.27)

And can you tell us, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Gherdai (30:34.784)

Yeah, so I would say the hardest thing that I have ever had to experience was my time living in China. Probably hands down. That was such a tough time in my life. But I experienced exponential growth. I changed in ways that I didn't even know were even possible. I became an artist in China. I moved there.

sort of believing that I would go, I would travel and sort of use my travels to inform my work. But what I didn't realize was how much I would learn about myself as a person in order to be able to make the work. And so I really felt like there it was like sink or swim. And I've really learned how to swim with some pretty strong strokes. And...

You know, being there was a real gift because I was isolated for a few years. Like, obviously I had friends there, but I spent a lot of time on my own. And when you spend a lot of time by yourself, you're able to get extremely still, extremely quiet.

All the noise goes away, the smoke somewhere, the smoke and mirrors go away and you are just with you. And so all of the ugly things that I had to face about myself, all of the things that I wanted to run away from, all the fears, all of the doubt, all of the things that I needed to work through in order to become an artist, I had to work through whilst there. And that isolation gave me the time and the space to be able to do that. I don't think that

I, 100%, I don't believe that I would be the artist today if I did not have that time to experience that because they're interconnected. Like they're one in the same. became who I became at that particular time because of that experience. And that's why our life experience is so integral into the type of work that we make because whatever you are experiencing, you are supposed to be able to.

Gherdai (32:59.858)

use that because that that's the story that's the experience that that's the that's the thing the translation that you want to be able to put into the work and so yeah I overcame that by just being okay with solitude being okay being isolated getting to a place where I could face myself I could look myself in the mirror I could accept myself I could forgive myself I could

listen to my own inner voice and what I wanted to do or what I wanted to say, I could really get to know who I am as a person. I was able to do that in China and that's how I would say I overcame like one of the hardest times of my life. It was so difficult, so painful, so many tears, like so many sleepless nights. You know how they say like there's like dark night of the soul, like I had that there.

I had that there. yeah, I'm just great. I'm grateful for for all of it because it gave me the audacity to come out of that one the other side of that as whole and as full and as confident and as excited about life and inventive as I was to be able to approach my practice in a way that

allow me to step out and just do whatever and make whatever I wanted to make or to do the things that I wanted to see in the world.

Aderonke (34:38.312)

How long did you live in China?

Gherdai (34:41.752)

So in total, for about four years.

Yeah.

Aderonke (34:46.475)

And how did you make the decision to move there? What was the catalyst that sent you in that direction?

Gherdai (34:55.758)

So I was actually in law school in 20, I think it was 2015, 2015, 2016. And I, I hated it so much. It was the worst thing ever, but it was such a gift. in hindsight, like now that I look back on it, it was the thing that I needed because it was so far away from what I actually wanted to do that it pointed me in the direction to what to think that I did want to do.

So like I was in class, I was like, I was broke. I was trying to figure out how I was going to get money to buy art supplies. I was thinking about what I wanted to make. And all I could think about was art. All I could think about was getting out of that classroom so I could just like go home and make something. And so making the decision to become an artist felt...

it felt like the hardest decision I ever had to make because I would have been leaving behind, you know, a scholarship to go to law school, right? Or this full sense of security. would have been on path to having a career that would yield me, you know, financial stability or, you know, make me feel comfortable in life. But I just knew that like living that type of life, would have...

I wouldn't have been true. Like wouldn't have been, I wouldn't have been honest with myself. And I think that would have been the hardest thing for me to live with is like knowing that I wasn't living my truth, knowing I wasn't being honest with myself, even less than anybody else. It was like, could I live with myself in this decision? And that was the thing that allowed me to make the decision. I mean, ending up in China, that's like a whole nother thing, but like,

I just knew that I had to go far away. I didn't know where I wanted to go, but I just knew I had to go far away where no one knew me, where I could reinvent myself. So the journey to going some other place was...

Gherdai (37:06.542)

because I wanted to reinvent myself. I wanted to make a new, I wanted to become a totally new person. And so, yeah, it was sort of like paradigm jumping or something. I, it's like I jumped into a new life. And when you jump into a new life, I you change so drastically like that. You could create anything you want. And that was the reason why I decided, I mean, it could have been any place.

I think China was definitely the place that I needed to go. And that was all by divine intervention for sure. But I knew that I just needed to get out of that life that I was in that just did not feel in alignment with my truth.

Aderonke (37:55.432)

Thank you.

Aderonke (38:09.456)

You are listening to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast.

Welcome back to AB Wilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. My guest on today's show is Jarday Hassel. Jarday, let's just change gears just a little and talk about self-care. What self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Gherdai (38:41.358)

So I would say that the first thing and probably the largest thing in my life that makes me feel like I'm looking after myself is being in my studio. It's my favorite place to be. I get to experiment there. It's sort of like a laboratory and in actuality it doesn't feel like work. It actually feels more like play.

And when I'm in my studio, I feel like I'm connecting with this inner child that always felt like creative and curious to try out new things. And so...

my inner child is happy all the time whenever I'm making and whenever I'm in my studio. So my studio practice is a daily practice. I go to my studio every day, even if I don't make anything. Sometimes just like sitting in the space and just being present helps me to sort of like think through ideas. And that's what's about like a practice is that like, you know, it looks different every day.

but it's something that is a sustained commitment. Like I'm committed to my practice more than I'm committed to anything else in my life. And that feels like self care because I feel me being an artist is what I've dedicated my life to doing. And when I show up, when I beat resistance every day, like that feels like self care.

like doing the thing that I know that I'm supposed to be doing. So I would say that. and so, and so I feel like that is very much so like in alignment with the idea that I've chosen something that is what I feel like is a part of my purpose, because looking after ourself also means making decisions that are in alignment with who we are or what we feel like we're supposed to be doing that.

Gherdai (40:48.78)

So the care and the purpose, I feel like goat are intertwined or go hand in hand. So that's what I would say would be the overarching way that I look after myself. But recently I've been like going to the gym, which I love and I've sort of developed a practice with that as well. I'm in the gym every day. I love going. I've been sitting in the sauna and steam room at the gym.

which I love as well. So that's like sort of grounded me. I have a writing practice too that's like a journaling thing that I do that sort of helps me to like brain dump and get all the things that I want to say or that I've been experiencing out so that I'm not like holding it within my body. So my journaling practice is really important to me. And

What else? I've been walking a lot more, which is nice, like walking outside more, spending more time in nature. I enjoy doing that. And yeah, I've also been cooking a lot more too, which is nice. So yeah, I've just been trying to like look after myself in ways that sustain me or that are nourishing for me so that I have the energy.

that I need to bring to my work.

Aderonke (42:20.766)

Thank you for sharing your practices. How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Gherdai (42:33.81)

yeah, I think we sort of touched on this earlier. It's so true, you know, because when we are ourselves, when we shine our own inner light, it allows for other people to take a little bit of that light and shine their own. Like sort of like how like if you light a candle, to light another candle, it doesn't take away from that initial flame.

It doesn't dim that flame at all, but it just allows you to pass that light along and to spread that light further. And I feel like that is a great metaphor for how when we are who we need to be for ourselves, that we can show up and then be the things that we need to be for other people to inspire further, to have deeper conversations, to connect on deeper levels with people.

And that's where the change is. It's like, yes, there are all these things that's happening, like where we live in this society, and we can change certain things like within the culture. But like what we had talked about earlier, just me doing what I needed to do for myself and for my own practice as an artist has changed the landscape of

the cultural and artistic landscape in Bermuda. It's like when you do what you have to do for yourself, it sends a ripple out for change for other things, for larger things. So the change has to begin with us. We have to change ourselves initially in order to create further change.

Gherdai (44:22.764)

And that's really where the power lies, I believe, is, you know, with what we can do within our own sort of like inner revolution.

Aderonke (44:36.786)

What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Gherdai (44:48.748)

You know, it's so interesting, this question, because where I am right now in my practice, I have begun painting again. So over the past three years, I feel like I've been sort of like doing textile and like installations, but I've moved back into sort of myself and like where I began. And I'm painting again and I love it so much. It actually,

has allowed me to return to my initial sort of reason why I became an artist. I began being an artist by way of painting. And then I sort of lost my love for it along the way, where I felt like I wanted to try out new things. But then I also had this like inner battle within myself that I needed to, that I needed to...

prove to myself that I could use other material and elevate it in the same way that I execute painting. So I wanted to look at like craft traditions and sort of level the playing field between fine art and craft traditions, which is why I'm really interested in like women's work and like things that sort of get overlooked. So I had that sort of leveling that I wanted to reconcile within my practice. So I've returned to painting.

And this is the first time ever where I'm making without anything on the calendar.

and it feels so good like just to make for the sake of making like over the past like five years I've had a solo exhibition every year for the past five years I've done group shows I've been site specific installations I've been doing residencies I've been doing all these things and it's you know it's been amazing but there's something really special about making

Gherdai (46:54.488)

for no deadline, just for the sake of making, for whatever purpose I want it to be, how I feel about whatever it is that I'm creating, not trying to follow a theme of an open call or something like that. I'm just making what I want to make. And so on the horizon, the possibilities are endless because there's nothing on the calendar.

And I'm so happy about that. Like it feels good to like be free and just make what I want to make, make what I want to see. Like that's actually what I, where I began, I was making, didn't, when I first became an artist, like I didn't have any opportunities. So I was just making what I loved and along the way the opportunities came, which is great. And I'm very grateful for, for my experience, but it's, I've gotten back to a place now where I'm just making.

Aderonke (47:22.622)

Thank

Gherdai (47:51.488)

what I want to see and that feels so freeing and liberating.

Aderonke (47:58.376)

Are you seeing a difference? I know you said you've gone back to painting, but are you seeing a difference in the art that you're creating, knowing that you don't have any deadlines, knowing that you're creating whatever it is you want without guidelines, without having to check in with others, whether it's through collaboration or any other kind of group work. Are you seeing a difference?

Gherdai (48:25.236)

Yeah, I'm definitely seeing a difference in the inventiveness of what I'm doing. Like, I'm sort of experimenting a bit and like playing around with textures. I'm playing around with composition. I'm incorporating fashion into what I'm doing, which is something that I've been wanting to explore for a really long time now. And also I'm growing my alibis, which I'm so excited about.

My alibi, so I don't know if anybody in the audience knows, but I create these figurations of Black women that are free and they're bold and they're inspiring. And actually, in a way, they are sort of self-portraits of myself in ways that I would love to see myself show up in the world.

And now I'm growing them through scale. I'm growing them through bodily composition. Whereas before I would just like sort of work on like the facial structure and just do the face. Now I'm incorporating them into sort of environments as well. Placing them in environments, giving them full bodies, but painting.

Also too, all this time I like, sort of felt like I forgot how to paint. So it feels like I'm relearning how to paint again. And oil is so buttery smooth. It's so good. It's so good. And it's very really satisfying, like coming up with a composition and then running into problems and having to sort of like do this visual problem solving.

is very exciting for me. And so making, like just being able to do those things without like, you know, having to report to anybody, how's everything going? How's the work coming? Like, you know, so I can, I can make and I can edit free from other people's opinions, which is, I'm so grateful for that.

Aderonke (50:46.046)

I'm looking forward to seeing this new work. I really am.

Gherdai (50:49.218)

Thank you. Thank you.

Aderonke (50:52.136)

So this is a new question that I've added to the interview, to the conversation. What brings you joy?

Gherdai (51:04.814)

You know, for me, it's really the simple things.

Like where I am right now, like just seeing the sunlight shine through my window and hit the table and create like some sort of like shadow or some flowers that I've received that I can just put in a vase. The walk that I could take early in the morning to start my day. The quietness of the gym at 5 a.m.

The other day I was sitting out in the sun just reading. I had an iced coffee and a pistachio tiramisu. And you know, just like the simple little things that just make you so happy. I really feel like that's what life is about. You know, the conversations that I can have with a friend, catching up with someone after, you know, time has been spent apart, traveling.

The other day I went to Portugal and spent time on the beach, like just life, the joys, the little joys of life. That's the thing that, you know, sort of keeps me going. It's like the life in between the work brings me joy and is the thing that I feel like helps me when I'm in the studio. And also, of course, being in the studio, like that's my favorite.

more than anything else really but yeah the small joys I would say like the little things yeah bring bring me joy

Aderonke (52:56.894)

Thank you, thank you for sharing so fully. And what book recommendations do you have? It can be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Gherdai (53:13.838)

So I'll recommend a book that I'm actually reading now. It's called Let Them by Mel Robbins. And it was so timely. I needed this book more than I knew. And I'm actually considering getting the words let them tattooed. That's how strongly and deeply I feel about this book and reading it right now.

She speaks about this idea of surrender by allowing things to just be, allowing people to be that through letting them, letting whatever just be, you reclaim your own personal power by surrendering. And when you surrender, it then allows you the space to quote unquote, let me.

Like by way of letting them, I let me. And then when you can let them, you let me and by letting myself do whatever, I have the power and the energy now to make the correct decision based upon allowing whatever needed to happen to happen. And so usually sometimes we get frustrated by this.

ability or this need for control of other things and other people and circumstances and situations. But if we just allow, we free up the energy that we need to redirect ourselves to make the decisions and to do the things that we need to do for ourselves. And it has been so such a simple concept.

but so transformational for me at this particular time in this genre. Especially this season that I'm in right now in my life, the book was spot one right on time. And yeah, I highly recommend it for anybody who just enjoys like self-development and a lot and really...

Gherdai (55:36.788)

loves like simple concepts that have profound meaning and impact in their lives.

Aderonke (55:44.274)

And so as we start to wrap up our conversation today, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts that you wanna share?

Gherdai (55:55.018)

Well, I just want to say thank you so much for having me today. It's been a real pleasure to share my thoughts and ideas. And I think it's beautiful that you have created this platform because I remember when we had met in Manchester when you came, you were thinking about doing the podcast. And so it's so beautiful to see how it's developed and how you've been consistent.

and you've grown this beautiful platform and allowing other people to share their thoughts and stories and ideas. I really believe that when you step forward and you create a platform for others, it allows you to be a vessel for great things in your own life. And so it's just beautiful to see how your platform has grown and really, really happy for you. And so thank you so much for having me.

Aderonke (56:48.902)

And thank you. Thank you for saying yes. I always appreciate when people say yes. And I appreciate the fact that you came when you had time. And I recognize that you have been extremely busy. And I do try and check in and see where you are every so often, see what's going on. And I'm always excited when I see a new show, a new exhibition, or you're in residence somewhere. I don't like, my goodness.

Gherdai (57:09.732)

Thank you.

Aderonke (57:18.652)

This is so exciting. So you're like an artistic beacon for me. I'm like, OK, so what's happening over there? How are you making out? So I appreciate your time, your talent, and your sharing today. And I always welcome opportunities that I can spend with you just talking and learning from you. So thank you. And so I have some appreciation nuggets.

Gherdai (57:27.777)

Thank you so much.

Gherdai (57:43.254)

Yeah. Thank you.

Aderonke (57:48.638)

that I talk from our conversation. One of them is...

Aderonke (57:59.9)

that you're in a constant and perpetual state of becoming. You said that very early on during our conversation. Our life experiences are integral to the art we make. You said that as well. And one of your greatest learning opportunities, even though it was pretty challenging at the time, was your time in China.

Gherdai (58:06.71)

Yeah.

Aderonke (58:27.548)

You felt that you had to go far away where nobody knew you and reinvent yourself. And so those are the three nuggets that I'm taking away. There are many others, but those are the three that I'm taking away specifically from our conversation today. Gerda, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I appreciate you being on AB Wilson's Heart of the Matter.

a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories of people you may know. Jaday Hassel, thank you.

Gherdai (59:09.848)

Thank you. Thank you so much.