ABWilson's Heart of the Matter

S2 Ep43. The Human Side of Justice: Conversations with The Hon. Justice Juan Wolffe

• Aderonke Bademosi Wilson "ABWilson" • Season 2 • Episode 43

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In this inspiring episode of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, host Aderonke Bademosi Wilson sits down with The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe from The Supreme Court of Bermuda. With over three decades in the legal profession and more than 24 years as a judge, Justice Wolffe offers a profound look into his journey from his roots in Bermuda’s Back of Town to becoming a high court judge. 

Devoted, compassionate and deeply self-reflective, Juan Wolffe shares how his upbringing shaped his approach to justice and life. He opens up about the challenges and triumphs in the courtroom, the importance of compassion and relatability in the judiciary, and his pioneering work with Bermuda’s treatment courts addressing drug, mental health and DUI cases.

Listeners will also discover delightful personal insights into his love for collecting model sports cars, his fascination with magic and his passion for food and family. Justice Wolffe provides candid reflections on judicial mental health, the need for diversity and fresh energy in criminal law and advice for aspiring lawyers. A heartfelt advocate for growth and redemption, he encourages perseverance even in the toughest circumstances. 

This episode highlights a distinguished legal career and celebrates resilience, community and the power of positive influence.

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The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

People think that judges and lawyers get paid out with money efforts to use that contrast to speaking. Is helping others navigate through what can be stories like this. And to be a part of that, the activist difference, I think, is has more value than any Facebook. And so just a personal story.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Welcome to another session of 80 Wilson's heart of the matter. Hi. I'm Ad Ronka, Battermost Devotion. And my guest on today's show is Juan Wolf. Juan is devoted, compassionate, and self-reflective. Juan, welcome to the show.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Well, thank you, Ada Ronka, for having me. It's an honor. It's a privilege being on your show, being invited to be on your show. A few of the episodes and the persons you have had on have been of very, very high esteem. So I don't know why you asked me to be on the show. I guess you're trying to be you're trying to be diverse. But it is definitely a privilege to appear on your podcast. And of course, you know, you in your own right are an accomplished woman. And so to be in the same space as you is a highlight of my life.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

One. Okay, I see how we're starting. And thank well, first of all, thank you for saying yes. I never take for granted when people say yes, and I am truly honored to have you as a guest today. And the words that I use to describe you devoted, compassionate, self-reflective. Let's start with devoted. Why devoted? What does devotion look like to you?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

As I said to you earlier, I struggle to provide this sort of words and how to do I find it very difficult to describe who I am. I mean, you know, you have to kind of be on the outside looking in. And it's difficult for me to do that. But it may be that I am that way, or maybe it's aspirational, maybe I want to be those words, but um hopefully I am. So when I say devoted, I would like to think that I am a devoted father and husband for my wife and my children. Growing up as a the product of a single parent and having a mother who I will name, uh Gladys Wolfe, who put her heart and soul in me and was devoted to my welfare and my care, I want to emulate what she did for me. And I think that I've achieved half of that. And if I've done that, I'm I'm a happy person. So I strive on a fairly regular basis to ensure that I'm there for my family, my wife, my sons, my immediate family, my mother. So in that sense, I'm devoted. And I think I'm also devoted to my craft, my job, in a way which I hope that I am making somewhat of a difference to the persons who come before the courts. And so that requires a level of assertiveness. It requires a level of attention and hard work. So that's why I hope I am. I hope I sort of live up to that description. But I do certainly do strive to be that way on a regular basis.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

You mentioned your job. Tell me about your work.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Right. So I have been in the legal realm for the past 30 years, the last 24 of which have been on the bench as a magistrate, senior magistrate, and a judge. I interface, I react interact with uh persons from all walks of life, uh, persons who are facing some of the most devastating circumstances of their lives, persons who are seeking to navigate through the justice system. And so while it can be a very stressful job, it is also a very satisfying and meaningful job to me. We often hear people saying that this was my calling or this is what the good Lord called me to do. I'm not sure if that's the case with me, but certainly it is a profession which fits me and fits my character and fits my view of what I think or how I think the world should be.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

And so, how does compassion, uh one of your descriptors, work with your chosen profession? And you as a family man.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Right. I mean, sometimes I think persons can be compassionate in a positive way and also in a negative way. I think I'm somewhat of an empath where I take on the feelings of other persons, which is can be good and which can be bad, but when others are going through strife, sometimes I feel that same strife. But the compassion side of it, it leads me, at least my family life, to ensure that my family are taken care of and that I am attuned to the feelings of my wife and my children. Hopefully, in my job, uh the compassion is exhibited when I deal with persons who come into the courtrooms, the persons who are facing some life-challenging situations. And I think people have this view of a judge as being this stoic person on the bench who doesn't have any feelings at all and should not have any feelings at all. I don't subscribe to that thought. I think that a judge sitting on the bench must have some degree of relatability to those who come before them so that they can properly deal with them. Having compassion for people, whether they be defendants or whether they be victims of crime, is an important part of my job.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

And you said self-reflective. What does that look like?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I think that I can, I and I do sometimes, uh, much to my chagrin, is to hold myself accountable for things. I think that I can be introspective in relation to things that I've done, whether they be good or bad, and hopefully that would sort of change the trajectory of my behavior by being reflective. I also hold myself accountable sometimes to a fault. Uh sometimes I'm overly hard on myself. But for the most part, I think that being self-reflective is the ability to look at one's behavior, feelings, emotions, and decide whether or not they were appropriate in the circumstances, if they were not, to modify that behavior or to improve upon that behavior. I'm still a work in progress. I probably always will be. I have a lot of faults, I can assure you. But I try to work on them on a day-to-day basis, whether it be in my personal life or in my work life. And I think that for all of us, we often talk about perfection and what exactly is perfection. And I struggle with that sometimes, and I come to learn that being perfection is really subjective. Just how you feel it should be, not what someone else defines perfection. And so part of my being self-reflective is trying to make myself a better one wolf on a daily basis. And there are sometimes I will go two steps ahead and then fall back three steps. I think that's part of the process of growth. One shouldn't expect to make strident, long strides every day in their life. It's sometimes it's the little things, the small steps. And sometimes you will go back. Sometimes you will retreat. And so for me, recognizing that that's what's happening to me, I think aids in my growth.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Thank you, Juan. Thank you for sharing your descriptors. Now I'm going to ask you to please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know, and your friends will be surprised to learn.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I'm not even sure I want to reveal all that. But I'm not sure if they're interesting to other people, but they're interesting to me. Would that be okay? That's absolutely fine. All right. This has nothing to do with law, by the way. No, that's fine. I am, and have always been for quite some time, ever since I was probably nine or ten years old. I stopped for a while and I'm just recently in the last year or so getting back into it. But I'm a collector of model cars. Now, the cynics out there will say I collect toys. They're not toys, okay? They're not toys. They are model cars. Okay. Because some of them can be very expensive model cars. And so I collect cars. I love high-end sports cars. So Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Porsches. And so I collect miniature versions of those cars. So that's one thing.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

What's your most prized possession? What is the one that, you know, you thought, ah, this is it?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

My love of cars, again, for when I was like nine, ten years old, was a Corvette Stingray, 1969 Corvette Stingray. So I have a model car of that, and that kind of always takes me back to my childhood when I start first start loving cars. But if I was to pick a car that I could drive on the roads in Bermuda, it probably would be some version of a Lamborghini. That's sort of my prize car. But in Bermuda, you can't have those cars, and so you just have to dream and collect uh model cars. The second thing, which I think is interesting, others may not think, but I am also a magic enthusiast. Let me explain that because some people think, oh, you're into dark magic. No. Again, ever since I was young, I've always been had an interest in sleight of hand and illusions, so the David Copper feels of the world. I've always been kind of enthusiastic and mesmerized by this sort of things. I used to at one time was quite heavily involved in not performing but sort of practicing tricks and all that sort of stuff. I have not done it for many years now, but I still have a great interest in it. I do take part in various as a helper in various magic shows and stuff like that. So that's another childhood thing. Some people may say it's childish, but it brings me joy when I uh you know I'm on YouTube and I see a magical performance. It excites me. And the third thing? Yes, please. Being at the weight of 270 pounds, it would not be any surprise to anyone to hear that I'm somewhat of a foodie. I love to eat. I love to eat good food. I like to go to restaurants and have good food. And it doesn't matter what type of restaurant it is. It could be a food truck, it could be a fine dining restaurant. I I just love good food. Recently I have gotten into steaks, and I never really was into eating steaks. But now I'm for some reason when I go to restaurants, I order steak. I really love to eat. And being married to a woman who's French, who also loves food, it does bring us joy when we go to a restaurant and have a good meal. And do you cook at all? It depends on your definition of cook. Do you mean standing at a stove with a pot and a pan with something in it? Is that cooking? I suppose I make a mean pesto spaghetti. And I think I am the foremost authority on scrambled eggs. Okay. So to answer your question, no, I do not cook. But strangely enough, I do watch a lot of cooking shows all the time. Yeah. So yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Okay, excellent, excellent. And do you have a favorite type of food? I know you said steak, but is there a particular country cuisine that you would default to?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Yeah, listen, if I was, and that's knock on wood, if I was on death road and my last meal had to be ordered, it would have to be anything made by my mother. And so it would have to be her greens and rice, macaroni and cheese, barbecue ribs, and her her goulash. So yeah, that would be my favorite meal. I love home cooked Bermudian cuisine. There's nothing better than it, no matter where you go in the world, as far as I'm concerned.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Excellent. Thank you so much. Thank you. And can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Over the last, and this will be in my professional capacity. Over the past 10 to 15 years, um, I have been very much a part of the implementation of the treatment courts in Bermuda. And when I say treatment courts, I'm talking about the drug treatment court, the mental health court, the driving under influence court. And those have been life-changing programs for persons who come before the courts. And I have been deeply enscounced in each of those courts. I, in fact, was the set up the, with the help, of course, of a team of us, we set up the mental health court for those who commit crimes as a result of mental health issues. And to a large degree, to remove a lot of the stigma that's attached to mental health, and also to break the cycle of criminality for those who may be struggling with mental health issues. And the same applies to drug treatment and also DUI. And I tell you, it has been the most successful program, they have been the most successful programs in the entire criminal justice system over the past 15-20 years. And to be a part of that is absolutely satisfying for me. To look back, I'm no longer involved in those programs because I'm now a pioneer judge. But to look back and say, you know, I was a part of that legacy does bring me a level of good feelings.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that story and for sharing those successes. Please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

In my line of work, persons don't sort of write letters or go on the news or go in the newspapers and say, Mr. Wolf, or any judge or magistrate has done this for me is great. And sometimes they're not articulated and so on and so forth. But every now and again, every now and again, I could be walking on the street and someone would come up to me and would say, uh, I don't know if you remember me, Mr. Wolf, but 15 years ago, you did X, Y, and Z for me in court. You could have locked me up, but you didn't. Or in some cases, you did lock me up. And I just want to let you know that that was the best thing that happened to me because it allowed me to change my life around. I now have a family, I have a job, I'm a law-abiding citizen. And I tell you that, those sort of comments warms my heart. And although it came, they may come 15, 10, 15, 5 years later, the effect of it is still quite impactful for me. And in our line of work, those of us who do this type of work, we don't do it for money, I can assure you. People think that judges and lawyers get paid a great deal of money, I can assure you that comparatively speaking, we don't. But where we do get our satisfaction is helping others navigate through what can be some really serious life issues. And to be a part of that, that you actually made a difference, I think is has more value than any paycheck that could be received. And so it's just personal stories that every now and again come back to remind you that this is why we we do what we do.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I'm not sure I can put my finger on that, but I think that it's my relatability to the persons who come before the courts. As I said, and you would know Adderank, I don't know if people know your humble beginnings, but we share very similar stories in that regard. And so persons who come from my before me didn't have a father in their life, or they came from a depressed neighborhood. I'm a product and a proud product, and I wear it proudly on my sleeve of the back of town area. I was born and raised in the back of town area, the Victoria Streets, the Curb, the Middle Towns, the Dundonal Streets, the Union Streets, the court streets, and acknowledged from whence I came. And persons who come before the courts come from similar circumstances. And so uh when they come before me and say that they did X, Y, and Z because of they needed to feed their family or they needed to get pampas for their child, I understand that struggle because I've seen that struggle upfront, close and personal. My mother worked three jobs and she worked extremely hard to provide for me. I never wanted anything, but that was because she made a great deal of sacrifice. But for the grace of God, go I, I could have went another direction. I didn't. Some of my friends did. That doesn't make them less of an individual, it's just that their circumstances led them in a different way. And so when persons come in front of me, I can relate to their struggle. They don't think so at first. When they come before me, they think I'm just this guy who doesn't know anything about it. But when I do start telling them of where I came from, and some of them come before me, I know their families. I'll tell them where their family stayed, whether it be top or bottom road of Middletown. I'll tell, you know, or your family live on the curve next to the bakery, the curve bakery. When I do that, you can see person's guard being let down, and I'm able to better assist them in getting through whatever issues they may be getting through. The other thing is that I think we have to understand that not everyone who commits a crime is a bad individual. Persons commit crimes for a plethora of reasons, some of which they commit crimes for reasons beyond their control. And again, coming from the area where I come from, I understand that. I understand that just because you commit a crime or just because you're a drug addict does not make you a bad person. Not at all. You may be an individual who has, because of drugs, done bad things, but it doesn't make you a bad person. I didn't need to have a university degree to tell me that. I learned that from being on the streets, playing on Court Street, being at the Grass Bakery. My mother used to work on Court Street as a waitress. So I was on Court Street all the time and seeing people all the time who maybe involved. And back then, Court Street was the place not to go. But seeing all that, but knowing that, hey, wait a minute, these are some good people. People who I would rather, even today, probably deal with more than I'll deal with someone from Front Street. Because it's the realness about them that I think that I can relate to. And so yeah, I think it's the relatability that allows me to do my job in a way which I think is hopefully is effective.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

You've talked about your career a lot. Did you have aspirations of being a lawyer, being a judge when you were growing up and looking at your childhood circumstances?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

People have these romantic stories about I always want to be a lawyer up since I was five, and you know, uh always arguing. That's not my story. I chose to become a lawyer as a matter of practicality. I was on track to be a forensic psychiatrist. Working as a police officer, I uh coming across many young men who were involved in criminal behavior, I always fascinated me why persons were involved in that and that you know some of them may need assistance. And so I left from being a police officer to go and be a forensic psychiatrist. It was during the time of my first degree that it became clear to me that it was going to take an additional eight years to become a doctor of psychiatry. That was an eight years of money, which I did not have. I did not have any money. At the time, a lot of my friends were going to do law. And so I said, How long does law take? And they said, Oh, about three years. I said, Well, I'm not a great mathematician, but three years is far shorter than eight years. Maybe I should do that three-year thing. And so I just decided, well, let me just go do law. And I applied to uh a school, I got in, and I literally left and went there and threw to England. Um now, having said that, having said that, once I was became involved in my my legal studies, I really started to love the law. And that sounds real nerdy, but I really started to love the law and its effect on society and its impact on society. That's when I said, I think I actually quite like this area. Ever since I've had this sort of passion for everything, law. That which I did not have any clue about, did not have any interest in, I actually gained a great and probably more, and probably more of an interest and liking for than I probably would have had had I become a forensic psychiatrist. Does that make sense? So here I am faced with a situation of just practical circumstances, but it ended up being a feature of my life which was going to be very meaningful. And I met my wife at university that I was not supposed to go to. And, you know, she's my wife of 30 something years, and we have two wonderful boys. Who would have known, right? How your life kind of changes this direction, and you never know why it happens, but it happens, and it actually can end up being a better plan than what you originally had.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

I have two questions. What is forensic psychiatrist? And second of all, what guidance would you give to a young person who may be interested in law?

unknown:

Right.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

So forensic psychiatrist is the most sort of basic definition, is looking at, particularly, was in particular criminal behavior, and what are the sort of criminogenic needs that a person may have to assist them in avoiding criminal activity? And so trying to understand the criminal mind, why do people, from a mental perspective, commit the offenses that they commit? What are the mental precepts for that behavior to take place? And so, and it could be a broad range of things. It could be behavioral issues, it could be more acute psychological, psychiatric issues such as schizophrenia or depression or whatever the case may be, and assisting those individuals with trying to navigate through their mental challenges to ensure that they do not commit crimes again and help them understand the origins of their criminal behavior. And so, and I don't know if this is interesting, it's probably macabre and maybe even kind of depressing. But when I was at one time, not so much now, but at one time, and this might have been the reason why I was quite so interested in becoming a forensic psychiatrist, but I had this fascination is the wrong word, so I don't want to use it. Let's just use the word interest. This interest in serial killers. And why do serial killers kill the way that they kill? I hope this is not too um depressing, but I kind of like low-key study the behaviors of the son of Sam, Charles Manson, and people of that. And why do these guys go and do what they do? And now I kind of look at like the school shootings in America, and I kind of trying to figure out why would a person go into a school with a gun and kill innocent kids, you know? And that kind of, I guess, in a strange way fascinates me why they would do that sort of stuff. And what like what what was in their minds, what was going on in their minds that would allow them to go and do such a heinous, heinous crime. And so, um, yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. Okay. So what guidance? What guidance would you have to a young person or even an older person who may be considering law as a profession?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I can tell you this here now that I I only can speak to the law that I do. I can't speak for corporate law or anything. But I can tell you this without any fear of contradiction, that if an individual chooses to engage in law that in which they're dealing with victims of crime or defendants, it is never a dull moment. A day is never dull. Um, it's always filled with drama and excitement, but it is the most meaningful and satisfying job that you probably could do. Because you are helping people to ensure that their constitutional and legal rights are being looked after. And I'm talking about people who are some of the most heinous criminals that we may have. Helping them understand and helping them get through a system, which they sometimes justifiably, but I think most times unjustifiably feel that is against them. And I think as an individual, as a lawyer doing that type of work, is you won't get anything uh more meaningful. I mean, maybe maybe being a doctor. But the other thing about being a lawyer as well, I think it is so marketable that it can translate and be transferred to other areas. So a lot of lawyers work in other fields like insurance or in business as analysts. Doing law is a great, great, great foundation from which to do other types of things that may not necessarily be strictly law, but a legal and law background. Because as a lawyer, it shows any employer that you have the aptitude to analyze things, and probably you have fairly good written and verbal communication skills. I would definitely say anyone who's choosing to do it, get into it. And just to let you know, just so that your listeners can understand. So a law school program normally takes about three years, and then you have to do what they call your bar exams, which takes a year, or you do a solicitor's finals, which is about two years, and then you have to do what they call a pupillage in Bermuda, a pupillage, that's a that's for a year. So the entire process before you can start calling yourself I'm a lawyer, can be about five years. There are some great schools in England and fairly well priced. Of course, in the United States, it can't be because that's United States law, but anywhere in Canada or England, Canada's prices are a bit better than America. But most people in Bermuda go to uh England. There's also some really good schools in the Caribbean. In Jamaica, I think it's the Hugh Wooding Law School, and I want to say Barbados or Trinidad, I can't remember which one it is, but they also have law programs, which are very good. The professors in the Caribbean are excellent. And that is even a shorter program. So if anyone, whether you're 21 or 55, you could in four to five years be a fully fledged lawyer. At not much expense.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Okay. That's a great promotion for your profession. So thank you. Thank you.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

And sorry, sorry, the criminal defense bar is very small. So we need criminal defense lawyers. The ones who are working, work very hard, they're very good, but they are getting a bit long in the tooth. And I don't think they would um have a problem be saying that. I mean, they're working extremely hard. We need to have new blood. We need to have an influx of young persons who want to do criminal law, who want to be criminal law lawyers. Most lawyers who go through the system choose to do corporate law. That's for whatever reason. For whatever reason. So we need to attract persons who want to do criminal law so that we can ensure that persons' legal and constitutional rights are being observed.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Thank you. Thank you for that. Juan, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I don't think that it was one particular event. I think it's probably an accumulation of things, I suppose. I think that we all go through periods when we fall short of what we expect of ourselves or how people think about us, or you know, small fails here and there. So throughout my career, and I think it has been said, as a young black man trying to navigate through a whole plethora of things, being accepted in a profession which ostensibly was seen as a white profession, being confronted with situations of racism, being confronted with confidence devastating blows over a period of time, and how you come out at the other end of that is something I think that people should be proud of if it happens. And so for me, I think it's kind of like a just a series of things that happen over time. Time that I had to navigate through, and rather than taking a road which was depressive, I took a route which was like, well, I'm gonna show them that I could do. You know what I mean? For me, it's just not one particular thing. And and also, as I said to you before, financial issues, um, having to get through. Every year I was in school, there was always a challenge as to whether I was gonna go back the next year. Every year. Every year I ran out of money. Every year I had to get another job. And my mother again worked extremely hard and it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be able to go, period. But even like times being in university, having those difficult exams to do, particularly in law school, and just thinking, why am I doing all this? Let me just go back and do something else. Like, it's just too much of a burden on me. I'm gonna not only do have to worry about school, I've got to worry about whether or not I can eat next week. Like those sort of things. Coming back and trying to find a job in a profession which doesn't necessarily or did not at the time view persons like me as being equal. And so applying for jobs and not getting jobs which I knew I was more qualified than, or seeing people who are being given jobs that I knew that I can run circles around them professionally and intellectually and academically. And kind of being able to get through all that. And even today, even today we have our challenges, right? Mm-hmm. So many different ways. And so I just think that you know, life shows up every day, and there are going to be good things and bad things. And being able to navigate through and surmount the everyday challenges, I think it's success. You know, sometimes it's the little things. And I learned a lot from the persons coming to the courtroom, persons who have some serious issues, far more serious than mine. And to see how they have taken redemptive efforts to change their life around is inspirational. And so it's this little overcoming of challenges that life kind of throws at you, which I think leads. What is the saying? If it doesn't break you or something like that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Yeah, exactly. You said it better not yet. And you know, you can't live by that, right? Life's gonna show up every day. And if it doesn't break you, it's gonna make you stronger anyway.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

You are listening to A.B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter Podcast. Hi there, it's Anna Ronka. Have you noticed how powerful a single question can be on this podcast? I asked my guests every past question.com today. Now, let's get back to the episode where we will continue unlocking stories of strength and possibility. Welcome back to A. B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Juan Wolfe. Juan, we have talked about your legal career, we have talked about your time on the bench, we've talked about your model car collection, uh, your life as a family man. What self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Going home. Going home. I listen, my home is my sanctuary. It's where my wife is, it's where my family is, and it's I'm out of the public spotlight. I don't have to deal with a lot of issues that I have to deal with. And so I go home and I just vegetate and just rest, and my family allows me to just do that and decompress. And that helps me with my mental health, just being able to disconnect from a world which is chaotic to me. In the judicial world, judicial wellness is a very hot topic right now because what we've found is that judges can suffer from PTSD, particularly those who deal with the most horrendous cases, that over time it takes its toll. And so I think that we need to do a better job as judges, attending to our mental health needs. And again, the way I deal with it is to go home and be with people who I know support me and people who I know love me unconditionally, and who I love to do things with. And so uh my wife and I we love to travel, and so every now and again I need to get off the rock and kind of change the channel a bit and see different things because the work that we do is extremely serious. Sometimes I need and need to be silly about things because 90% of my day is about being serious, and so I will go and watch a bad movie just to kind of unwind. My only problem right now though is that I'm I'm obsessed with the American political system, and so I'm just way too much watching too much news about the American political system too much more than I should be. So to answer your question, I mean, it it's not really a strategy for me, and I think that obviously is specific to you and what works for you, and what works for me is to go home and be with my family.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

You've mentioned judicial mental health. That's something that I personally have never considered. And you've raised it as a topic that is being looked at more and more. What is being done to help judges? Because we look at the victims, we look at the perpetrators of crime, we look at society in general, but I must admit I've never considered the lawyers or the judges in cases, especially really, really tough cases.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Well, let's put this into perspective. Every day that I come into work, and this probably applies to prosecutors and to defense lawyers, on my desk is murder, rape, drugs, serious sexual abuse, sometimes involving children, theft. There's nothing positive about any of those things. Nothing. And so if that's all you see every day for 365 days of the year for the last 15, 20 years, then it does play on your mind. And you need some sort of release from that. One may think that we could just simply deal with these cases, but we're let me just say this here that we are human. Uh we're human. We're not just this sort of cold, callous individual sitting on the bench. We are human. So when we hear human stories, we react in a human way. And whether it may not be an outward view, but it may it something kind of percolates within you. And after a while, you feel drained. And so what has been recognized is that judges need to be able to find a way to deal with that, particularly those involved in the criminal realm, because there is a psychological, maybe even a psychiatric effect that may be having on an individual. So it's not unusual, um, not so much in this jurisdiction, but in other jurisdictions, where there have been judges who have committed suicide. There are judges who you know have marital issues, there are judges who are unfortunately turned to alcohol or drugs because of the nature of the work that they do. And so what is being recognized is that as part of any judicial terms and conditions is to have a mental health piece put into it where it is not mandatory, but it is absolutely a requirement that there be mental health services available for judges to be able to deal with those sorts of issues. I can't speak for uh lawyers or judges who are in other areas of law. I'm sure that their work is extremely stressful. Our work is stressful, but with the added element of looking at probably some of the most lowest forms of depravity that you can see. So, for example, every crime or every incident, whether it be murder or whatever, or fatality in Bermuda, let's just think of anything that's happening in the last day, two days, month, two years, whatever, right? I will see all of that. I will know about every single bit of that murder that took place at some point in time. Every little intricate detail of what took place. You may know that the murder took place, but I will be dealing with every minutia of that case at some point in time. You know what I mean? And so when you start seeing images of murder or images of persons being shot, photographs, uh, autopsy photographs, all of that, yeah, it takes its toll. So if I'm doing a difficult case, for example, that involves all of that, and plus I'm gonna deal with all sorts of other legal issues, my weekend is spent pretty much unwinding from all the stuff that took place. And on top of that, it's assuring that a defendant has a fair trial. That in and of itself is a stressful endeavor. And also ensuring that any victims also have a fair trial. And so it's that added element as well. Making sure that you make the right decision in some of the most legally sensitive and delicate and complex issues again can take its toll.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

One, thank you for sharing this side of the legal system that I will say I had never considered. So I appreciate you giving us a glimpse into it. Thank you. No problem. How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

It gets back to from whence I came. I think that there are many people who come from depressed areas or are faced with those sort of circumstances who feel that they are less than or that they're not good enough. I can tell you that many of my friends who I ran around with when I was young in the Baccatan area, many of them were more intelligent than I was, more academically gifted than I was. But for whatever reason, they found themselves in some serious situations. And so I just want to say that just because you may come from that area, or just because you may have been raised by a single parent, or just because you may have some issues, it doesn't mean that that's it defines who you're going to be. Who I am, where I came from, is still very much a part of me. It defines part of who I am. As I said earlier, I wear it on my sleeve from where I came from. But even those who are in the most dire of circumstances, and there are times when I certainly was in some serious financial dire circumstances, you can like grow from that. That even though you may find yourself in the worst of situations, there is a level of redemption that you can enjoy. Like you can rise like the phoenix from the ashes. And I know that sometimes when you're kind of deeply in mired in the problems that you have, you don't really see that. And you want things to happen like right away. Many times it doesn't happen right away. It could take days, months, maybe even years. But if you keep striving towards it, then it can happen. But also to surround yourself with positive people who are going to support that growth. Because if you don't have that, then that could be problematic. So I just hope that people can see that this little black boy from the Bacchaton area can, with some degree of help and with assistance, certainly from my mother, my grandmothers, can sit in the seat of justice in Bermuda one day. Although it may seem bleak, then you're kind of deep into it. Do not lose that the possibility is always there. But it's gonna take work on your part, obviously. It may even take some work on the part of other people, but it's not an insurmountable task. And there are gonna be ups, I mean, you know, it's a cliche, but it's true. There are gonna be ups and downs. There's gonna be setbacks. But you got you really just gotta keep pushing forward with it. I'm still growing. I'm still growing. I'm not the complete version of myself yet. I will be, I'm not gonna tell you what my age is gonna be. It's gonna be some, but I as I said earlier, I'm still a work in progress. And that's the way I want it to be.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

For me personally, I see retirement in five years' time as being an exciting opportunity on the horizon for me personally. I will be 65 in five years' time, I'll be at retirement age. Uh, I think so far I've had a pretty good innings. But I think that it'll be time. It'll be time for me to kind of disconnect from all of this, disconnect from being a somewhat of a public figure, and what that means to kind of uphold with that the stress and strain of being a judge. I look forward to that that eventuality. I know that some people, when they retire, some people don't know what to do it themselves. I know exactly what I'm gonna do myself. I can assure you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

What will that be? Can you share?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Well, put this away, it's gonna be involve a lot of eating, it's gonna involve uh traveling, it's gonna involve some reading, it's gonna involve just sitting around the house doing nothing, and not have to worry about doing anything. I look forward to that. Now that's my motivating force is that work hard now because guess what? In five years' time, you're outie. And I'm looking forward to that. And that's because I think that I have, you know, so far, I still got work to do, but I put the work in. And it's now time for me to rest. And also spend more time with my family, my wife, and so she will be hitting that age as well. And so that's our kind of our plan to enjoy the remaining, the balance of our lives. You know, when you get to my age, um, you know, you start having these thoughts of your personal mortality. And so, you know, you want to kind of ensure I don't want to see myself working, at least not having to work at 65. I mean, I know that some people do, and because of their personal circumstances and I glory in their spirits, I don't see myself wanting to do that. I hope that when I get 65, I could sever myself away from all of this that I have to deal with on a regular basis. Thank you. I can talk about the courts now, if what's on the horizon for the courts, but that's my personal opportunities. But do you want to talk about the courts? No, no, not really. Okay. I mean, real quick, I mean, there are things I think which are exciting that's happening in the courts. I mean, we are ensuring that persons understand proper sentencing guidelines. I think that we are moving towards an electronic system for the courts. I look forward to seeing a lot more about the treatment courts. There is a lot of good things that that's taking place. Uh, our current Chief Justice, Mr. Larry Mossadin, is quite a progressive person, and so he's doing a lot of good things uh for the courts. So I think that Bermuda Public will be really served well in the criminal justice system of the courts for the next even just a few months, but also years.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

What brings you joy?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Yeah, it gets back to what I said earlier, my family. I'm trying not to sound like cliche and and all that, but my family is really my go-to, and I need to have put things into perspective. So, for example, right, I may be this so-called quote-unquote big time judge, but I can tell you right now, Gladys Wolf ain't have none of that. My mother grounds me on a regular basis, say, hey, don't you be who do you think you are? And um, so my mother, my wife, they let me know that being a judge does not define who I am as a person, and nor should it. It's something that I do. I like doing it, I love doing it, but it's not who I am, if you understand what I'm saying. And so my family brings me back down. If ever I think I have a big head or I'm getting too uppity, my family brings me back down. And I'm grateful, I'm grateful for that. I'm really grateful for that. And so when I see the smile on my mother's face, my wife and um my son's faces, yeah, it brings me joy. It brings me joy. Especially, again, since during my entire day, I'm seeing nothing but frowns and negativity. They bring me positivity.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

So we're nearing the end of our time together. What book recommendation do you have? It can be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

So I like reading fiction novels. In particular, I like reading assassin type fiction novels. However, there was a book that I just recently read. I say recently, maybe last, within the last six months. It's called Black AF History, the unwhitewashed story of America, and is written by an author called Michael Harriet. And what he does is he gives the story of America from the perspectives of former slaves, persons who are involved in the civil rights movement, and he fills the undergat of things which the traditional history books do not or did not tell you. And so, for example, he would tell the stories of various different revolts that took slave revolts that took place on various plantations in the South, right? That I've not even heard about. But it tells the story of the struggle of the slave, what they had to go through, what they went through. And he has empirical evidence to back up all this, by the way. And it is an acclaimed book. And so, you know, we often hear that history is often the narrative of someone else who had the wherewithal and the means to tell that story and to project it out there, right? Well, he gives the other version, and it intrigued me because as a judge, I'm always kind of looking for like, well, what's the other side of the story? The history books that we look at tell it from the eyes of a person who's lighter skinned than me. That's not a criticism, it just is the way it is. Okay? But I always wonder, well, why don't we hear more stories? I mean, we know about Harry Tubman, we know about Rosa Parks, but there are many other, some will argue, far more impactful persons than Harry Tubman and Rosa Parks, and even to some degree, and I dare say Martin Luther King, there are people who played intrical roles during slavery, during the civil rights movement, who you never know about but did phenomenal work. So, for example, Rosa Parks, who is the icon of the civil rights movement, but the story goes is that there was another woman, I forget her name, who actually refused to sit on the bus before Rosa Parks did. And so those sort of things kind of intrigue me, like finding out additional information. And so this book did that for me. It filled in a lot of spaces, but also gave me a greater appreciation, even more so appreciation for the struggles and the challenges which slaves had in America. I mean, even stories like during the Civil War in America, between the North and the South, we don't hear very many stories about the black soldiers who played an integral role in the North winning that war. You know? I mean, Bal Monty has a song called Buffalo Soldiers, right? But there's a huge contingent of black soldiers who made vital impact on that war. But you hear but you hardly hear about them. And this book kind of tells those sort of stories, and I find it quite intriguing. So anyone wanted to pick it up, and I said it's for for me, it's for all races, it's for all genders. And what I like about the book, it's not a book that land-based white individuals. It's not one of those type of books. It's not a complaining type of book, it's just a factual book that says, look, these are other things that took place that you should know about. And I also like the style in which he writes it. It's very sort of um irrel relatable in terms of the words that he uses and the turn of phrases that he uses, which I thought was quite humorous as well.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Juan, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your candor, thank you for your insight. Is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I want to thank you for providing a voice for not just persons like myself, but for the persons within in the business realm and providing a channel through which persons can be educated about various different things that they ordinarily would not know about. So kudos to you and your team for doing the great work that you're doing. I hope that what I've said um resonates with at least one person, and that I fit within the high standards that you've set for this podcast. And I also can be spoken of in the same sentence as all the other persons who are guests on your program. So thank you very much for inviting me.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

One, thank you. And I appreciate your kind words. And I want to just give some appreciation nuggets from our conversation. One of the first things that you said earlier in our talk was I'm there before the grace of God go I. That's something that I absolutely can't relate to. And you've talked about your upbringing in back of town, and that's for people who may not be of Bermuda, is a geographical location in the center of the island that has historically not necessarily been a wealthy area. I think that's a way that I could describe it.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I suppose it's the equivalent of the inner city that persons would talk about, where you know, persons who live in that area are, for whatever reason, uh not as financially secure as they would like to be or even strive to be. Unfortunately, it's an area where there is criminal activity, probably more concentrated than than in other areas, at least when I was younger. I still think, though, that it's the heart of Bermuda. When I was growing up, it was the heart of Bermuda. That's where you had Mr. and Mrs. Bermuda. And so it's also the area which I think is the most underserved area in Bermuda. I think that we need to do, those who are in power, need to do more to uplift that area. I know that there's that's a complex issue, but I think that more time and energy needs to be spent in terms of uplifting that sort of that north area of of Hamilton. I do think the people who live in those deserve it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Yeah.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

And I know that you're the interviewer and you don't like to be brought into the into soil things, but I'm gonna bring you into it. You know the situation, right?

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Yeah. Yeah.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Don't make me start naming north your people's.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

I think back to even my childhood where we lived, we lived on download street immediately beside Places Place. Um, people outside of Bermuda may not know where that is. And I remember when we first came to Bermuda, we actually lived on Court Street. And then as teens, we lived on Elliott Street. So and these are all areas immediately, immediately in the back of town area. Yeah. And so that is part of my DNA. That is part of my our and not just mine, myself and my brothers, my two brothers having grown up there, and we refer to it. We know that that is part of what makes us who we are today.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I tell people every time, listen, don't let me get back a time on you. Don't be fooled by this rub. Yeah. We can deal. And like I said, I'm not talking about in a I'm not talking about in a violent way. Yeah. I'm just talking about in a way which I'm not gonna back down from you. Like my as you say, my DNA, my upbringing tells me that I gotta fight for everything. Everything, absolutely. And not only that, but I've been through adversity, financial and otherwise. And so what you say to me doesn't really we can deal with it. Right? And so you either have me as sort of like the the nice judge, demure judge, or the back at army. Which one do you want? Because either way, and I say it, I read that probably, that there's a certain mentality and personality that a person from back of town has. That look, listen, I'm gonna deal with you. Like, I'm gonna hold you accountable.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Yeah.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

It gets me in trouble all the time, by the way. I'm not gonna sort of beat around the bush. I'm gonna I'm just gonna let you know because that's where I come from. Like I've had to go through all this sort of stuff. Like I had to navigate through the streets of back of town.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Yeah.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

I have to worry about, in some cases, drug dealers or some guy who's who's trying to beat me up. I've had to get into physical fights to prove who I am. So listen, if you want to be assertive, we can do that. And so sometimes I gotta kind of like dress back from it. You know what I mean? Um just say, listen, yeah, we don't have to go there, but trust me, if we have to go. We have to go there, we will. We can do that. And so for your listeners, the the back of town area, I suppose, is it's it's I suppose could be equivalent to maybe a Harlem in New York, maybe, or an inner city area. Back when we were growing up, the Court Street, the backtown area was the no-go area for the rest of Bermuda. I mean, I had friends, black friends, who said that their parents told them not to walk through Court Street or not to drive through Court Street. I'm like, but that's where I play.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

One, let me just say this. It was also a community, right? And when I look back, especially as a teenager, an older teen moving back to Bermuda, it was a community. And I think about especially my brothers, because they're slightly younger than me, and us being of that community and knowing our neighbors and being neighborly. And even though it was back of town, you still had that community spirit. And I still will periodically drive through the area and see how things are going, see what's going on. A new building here, a renovation there. And I'm still curious about the neighborhoods and the streets that we wandered.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

And that's what people don't understand, right? That there was a level of community there that I think surpassed many other communities. So I knew that I can go to the next door near and get some groceries because they understand that, or they understood that my mother would for this we couldn't afford to do to get the milk. Yeah. So they are quite, they they had the milk, right? And even kind of looking out for you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

Yeah.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

It's a quick story, and then you gotta go. So I became a police officer, right? And I was always assigned to the back of town area to do walking patrols, right? And the reason being is because I never had any issues walking back of town. Not only that. But all the guys who were on back of town didn't have any issues with me walking back of town in my police uniform because they knew me growing up. And so it would be like hey, and so whatever they were doing, if they saw me, they'll stop doing it. Out of respect for me. And again, that was kind of born out of, I think we had kind of like a commonality of strife where we're kind of getting on, we'd all were struggling, but there was a level of togetherness in that struggle, which helped you, I think, kind of move on. So my mother, my friends, I mean, some of them were hardened, hardened criminals, but good, good people. You know what I mean? And so I've had situations when I was a police officer where people were not bothered with me because they knew who I was and they respected. And I had a few of them come up to me and say, Look, one, we you know, you know what we're into, but look, listen, we respect your decision to become a police officer and that you know we support you as much. We won't tell you who's committing crimes, but uh we can be we'll let you know that you're not gonna have any problems. You know what I mean? And so, as I said, growing up in the Bakutani area is very much a part of my heart. I'm glad that I went through it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson:

I appreciate the sharing. There's not a lot of people that are able to reflect back on that time in the 70s and 80s and the communities that were built and um continue to exist in those areas of Bermuda. So, two more quick uh appreciation nuggets. You spoke very clearly about criminal law being the most meaningful and satisfying job you can do. And this speaks to what we've just been talking about. Just because you may have come from that area doesn't define who you are. You can grow from dire circumstances. One Wolf, thank you so much for being a part of today's show. I appreciate you taking the time to join me on A. B. Wilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and wisdom of people you may know. One Wolf. Thank you so much.

The Hon. Justice Juan P. Wolffe:

Thank you.

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Aderonke Bademosi Wilson

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