S2 Ep44. Honoring Loss with Action: A Journey of Strength with Victoria Trabosh

In this deeply inspiring episode of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, host Aderonke Bademosi Wilson welcomes Victoria "Vicky" Trabosh, a fierce warrior, passionate philanthropist and authentically brave woman who has faced life’s storms head-on. Vicky shares her incredible journey of battling oral cancer for over a decade while remaining a voice for women and communities in Rwanda through her Itafari Foundation.

Listeners will be moved by Vicky’s reflections on resilience, faith and the power of love and action to honor those we have lost. She reveals how a chance meeting with a Rwandan woman named Rita shaped her mission to support and uplift Rwanda’s women post-genocide, emphasizing partnership rather than charity. 

Vicky also talks about navigating complex family dynamics in her blended family and the wisdom passed down to her by her mother.

This episode speaks to anyone facing adversity, beckoning us to embrace our own hero’s journey with courage, persistence and authenticity. Vicky’s warmth and unfiltered honesty shine through her stories of growth, strength and the joy found in laughter despite life’s challenges.

Tune in for an intimate conversation filled with laughter, inspiring insights, impactful stories, and heartfelt wisdom.

https://www.abwilsonconsulting.com

https://abwilsonphotography.com

Transcript

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:01.979)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, my name is Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest on today’s show is Victoria Trabosh. Vicky is a philanthropist, warrior, authentic. Vicky, welcome to the show.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (00:36.556)

Thank you so much, Aderonke. I am thrilled to be here with you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:41.331)

And Vicky, I want to start with your descriptors. And I’m going to the second one first, warrior. What does that mean? What does that look like for you?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (00:52.832)

It was funny when you asked me for my three words, that one immediately came to mind. And a warrior is someone who faces the battles of life. I think that there are ways to look at the world and some of us are afraid and some of us take it on. And I have noticed since the very beginning of my life, at six weeks old, actually, I became a warrior.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:21.213)

What happened at six weeks?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:23.404)

I was born with a port wine stain mark, you know that purple mark that you get on your face? And it started below my nose and it went down my neck. And at six weeks old in 1957, my mother said that they decided to try to burn it off with dry ice, no anesthetic. And she said it took four adults to hold me down because I was fighting.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:28.627)

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:51.532)

And I screamed, and it scarred my face, but it took care of most of the mark, which now, because I know that those marks on your face can have a real effect for men and women. But what I thought about was how does it take four adults to hold down a six-week-old baby unless they are… And that is the first time I ever fought and I have not stopped since. To be honest, nobody’s had to hold me down, all four people. There’s nobody holding me down today. But I face the world with strength and truth, and I fight for injustice and I fight for myself and I fight for those I love. And so fighting sounds like a negative, violent thing, but it’s like… I have a sweatshirt that says, “Underestimate me. That’ll be fun.”

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (02:51.409)

Hahaha!

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (02:53.806)

So that’s why I picked the word warrior.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (02:58.535)

Philanthropist. Tell me about that.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (03:03.342)

You know, I think anytime you give to a cause, you’re participating in philanthropy. And in 2005, I decided to start a foundation for Rwanda. And for the next 11 years, I ran that foundation. We raised a million and a half dollars. And I became a voice for the women of Rwanda to help empower and lift them up.

I don’t believe in the colonist idea that we go to Africa and save the continent. This was more, how do I come alongside people in Rwanda, ask what they need and then give it to them. And that’s what I did. So our program was called Itafari Foundation, and Itafari means “brick.” And we chose a brick because a brick represents the weight of a malnourished child that cannot be comforted.

A brick is the burden that a woman carries down a path as she struggles to find a way to feed her family. And a brick was the color of the soil that a woman saw when she was being violated face down during the 1994 genocide against Tutsi. But a brick, a brick also represents hope. And together, we helped rebuild the country of Rwanda. Brick, itafari, by brick, itafari, by brick, itafari.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (04:28.051)

How did you become involved in Rwanda? What led you there?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (04:32.43)

A woman named Rita. Thank you for bringing up my dead mother. I love to talk about dead Rita. I’ve written a book about her called Dead Rita’s Wisdom: Simple Words to Help You Live an Extraordinary Life. And when I meet a Rita, I pause. And in 2004, I was asked to go to a lunch. And my old boss said, “Vic, I want you to come to Rwanda with me. You’re a strong woman. They’re going to love you.” I said, great.

So I went home and I said to John, “I’m going to Rwanda.” And the wise man that he is looked at me and said, “Where’s Rwanda?” I said, “I don’t know.” He said, “Do you know what happened there?” I said, “No.” He said, “Do you know how dangerous it is?” I said, “No.” He goes, “You’re not going to Rwanda.” So I called Jeff, my old boss, who was used to all this, right? And I said, “Well, John said I couldn’t go.” He goes, “What?” I said, “Hey, John says no, no means no.” So…

Jeff, knowing that I’ll pretty much do anything for food, invited me to another lunch. And in March of 2005, he said, “Hey, Vic, I want you to come to a lunch. We’re going to have a woman from Rwanda speak.” So I said, “Hey, it’s food. I’m going.” So I walk into the room, all white people except for one African woman. And I walked up to her and I said, “My name is Vicky Trabosh.” And she said, “My name is Rita Angarambi.” I said, “Oh.

Rita is my favorite name in the world. That was my mother’s name.” And she looked at me and she said, “I will be your mother.” Now Rita is my age, but we connected on such a deep level. And she was running the Rwanda World Vision microfinance program in Rwanda. And she said, “You know, my people have no hope.” And I used to work as a guardian conservator for the elderly. And I said, “You know,

I noticed when I would go to nursing homes to visit my clients, they would be waiting. They would be waiting to be visited. They’d be waiting to go to the doctor. They’d be waiting to get dressed. They’d be waiting to eat. And then they began to wait to die. And then they would wait for God.” And I said, “I don’t think God wants us to wait. I think he wants us to do whatever we can while we are here.” And she looked at me and she said, “You must come to my country and speak to my people.” I said, “I will come.”

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (06:55.756)

I left that meeting, I went home and I said to John, “I’m going to Rwanda.” He goes, “Why are you going to Rwanda?” I said, “I met a woman named Rita.” He goes, “No,” because he knew. And that’s what began my journey. And I went that first time in July of 2005 and met a people who did not want to be defined by a genocide, but by their strength and resilience. And some of my dearest friends live in Rwanda.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (07:03.571)

Ha.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (07:23.882)

And it is a place that speaks to my heart because I know that adversity does not need to define us. It is our journey. It is not anything I would wish on anyone. And it’s not perspective. It’s not like, well, at least that didn’t happen to me. It’s “How will I get through the storm of my life?” And over and over and over in Rwanda,

I hear the stories of women who have risen above their circumstances, filled with grief, filled with loss. Not unlike, I think, the Holocaust survivors that we still hear about. There are a few left, but what they went through and how they went through it define their life. The grief never ends. My mother, dead Rita, has been gone for 27 years, Aderonke, 27 years.

And it’s like she’s right here. So I’ll never forget her. I will never stop loving her. But I hope I honor her more with my action than my grief. That’s how I got to Rwanda. Rita.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (08:38.45)

So tell me about dead Rita.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (08:41.838)

You… God, what a great question. That’s not even on the list, Aderonke.

So my mother was born in 1931. My grandmother, you know, I heard someone say, I said to someone once, my mother was illegitimate. And someone said, no, it was the mother that was illegitimate. So my mother was born out of wedlock to my grandmother who was 16, very poor in Ohio. And my mother’s life started out very difficult. My grandmother was very difficult. There was… she is a strong woman.

I come from a line of strong women on both sides. And my mother was kind of a pawn with my grandmother. My grandmother was damaged. There was a lot of generational trauma. I’m not excusing it, but I understand it. But it’s the weirdest thing. My grandmother was not that interested in my mother. She didn’t want to have a kid at 16. It was 1931.

She actually went to serve in World War II as a nurse and left my mother. She left her with her grandmother, Anna, and Anna was the one that showed my mother unconditional love. But one of the things I write about in my book, there’s a chapter called “I Will Not Become My Mother.” My mother said at four years old, she was standing looking out through a screen window, screen, you know, covered door, and she saw her mother walking down the street.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (10:14.814)

Arms linked with her girlfriends, not a care in the world. And here sat my little mother at four. And she said she looked out the window and said, “I will not become my mother.” And while my mother had a lot of challenges, she was a gorgeous, amazing, perfect woman, worked, was very successful, married, three kids. But she broke that streak. My grandmother would tell my mother,

she had spindly legs and a big nose, and my mother was very slim. She was 34, 24, 36. I, on the other hand, was a little chunkmeister. And at 10 years old, all I wanted to be was my mother. Petite, quiet, demure and shy. And as I like to say from the stage, how am I doing? I’m not any of those things. But my mother loved who I was. And I remember when I was 10 years old,

she said, “Come here, Vic, I want to tell you something.” And I did everything my mother said. And she looked at me, like it was genius actually. She goes, “You know what? I think you’re going to have a little bit of a weight problem.” I’m like, “No, really? That’s interesting.” So many mothers tell their daughters they’re fat, they’re not attractive, nothing. And I’m like, “Really?” She goes, “Yeah.” She goes, “Here’s what I want you to do.

I want you to hold in your stomach.”

Aderonke, I have been holding in my stomach for 58 years. I’ll show you. I mean, that sucker’s in. I’m holding it in. I always hold it in. Gives me good posture, keeps the girls uplifted. Maybe we’ll take some of this stuff out. I don’t know. But she was everything to me. And my parents were unhappily married.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (12:15.32)

But I took the best—my mother was insecure and afraid. She was beautiful and she was kind and she was honest and she was artistic. I took all of that from her. My father on the other hand was… he was a rascal, to put it mildly, and they were not happily married for about 35 years. They stayed married until my mother died. But my father was strong, smart and bold and, man…

I said, you know, I don’t want his BS. I don’t want his lying. I don’t want his cheating. I’m going to take the best qualities. So I took those from him. But from my mother, it’s my heart. We’re still one to this day and I miss her every day. And I wish, you know, she died when she was 66 years old in my arms. And the minute she died, I had this funny feeling: Now I won’t have to protect her from my father anymore.

Because I did. I was the wall between them. I was the only one that could talk straight to my dad because I did not put up with any of his stuff. And so I didn’t have to protect her anymore. I remember once, you know me, I’m kind of outrageous. And I had said something outrageous, even by my low standards. And my parents lived with us and I came home.

And my mother was such a lady and I am so bawdy. I came home and I said, “My God, Mother, you’re not going to believe what I said.” And she goes, “What’d you say?” She loved me. I told her, we started laughing. I don’t remember what it was, Aderonke, but we start… and then I started to cry. I’m like, “Mother, what am I going to do?” She goes, “Vic, quit trying to be something you’re not. You’re perfect just the way you are.”

That’s Rita. And she was gracious in her illness. Finally had the guts. Two weeks before she died, she goes, “Get your dad out of here.” I said, “Mother, really? I’ve been after you to do this for 30 years.” She goes, “I don’t want him here.” And I moved my dad out before she died. So I gave her voice wherever she wanted it. And I did what she wanted. I still miss her every single day, every single day.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (14:43.18)

I think of her. And thank you for letting me talk about her this morning.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (14:46.589)

Thank you for sharing, truly. Thank you for sharing. I know you and I have talked about her in the past. And so I appreciate you taking the time to share with the world a little bit about dead Rita and the fact that I read something somewhere, a person’s legacy lives as long as you can say their name and always remembered, that person is remembered,

something like that. So thank you for sharing.

Your third descriptor, authentic. Tell me about that.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (15:26.19)

Well, that’s what I just talked about. I am authentic. I say what I think. I put the skunk on the table. And I, I’m not crude. And you know, this is funny. I have never been called the “B word,” ever, ever, in business or in life. Nobody calls me that because I’m not one. So I don’t think being authentic means being harsh. Doesn’t mean being tough. It means being honest.

My life’s purpose is truth. And it was funny when I started going to Harvard, because I said, “What am I doing at Harvard?” Yeah, master’s. I looked at the word “veritas,” which meant truth. And I go, “Well, that’s what I’m doing at Harvard.” So I think that being authentic for me means telling the truth. So my clients, people I work with, people I love, they all know they’re going to get the truth. And I know that

the messenger can kill the message. So I’m kind about the way I deliver it. I’m unconditionally constructive. But if there is injustice in the world, if there is hurt, I go after it. I swear to God, if I’m ever on a bus and someone attacks someone, I’m dying because I’m going to the rescue. I will not, I will not not defend. And you know, we watch people in these… and it was very funny.

This is a short story. I was getting on a plane going through TSA Pre. TSA Pre was closed, so we had to go through the regular line. So, you know, you got to take off everything but your bra and I don’t care. You know, it’s like I’m just, I’m going on a trip, so I don’t care. But the woman in front of me cared a lot. She was this white woman. She was just like harumphing her way through the thing. I was like, oh lady, just chill. But she would not chill.

We get through. You go through the metal detector and we’re standing there and there were two TSA agents, a short young Black woman and a tall skinny white kid. And she was standing next to him and the young woman said something to her. And she said, “Stop mumbling.”

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (17:47.532)

And I heard that and I was like, “What did you just say?” Like her mother, because she was obviously saying that she couldn’t understand this woman because she was Black. And I’m like, “You are…” And she looked at me, she got it. She knew what she said, and she knew I got it. She goes, “I couldn’t hear her.” I could hear her. I said, “You could hear her.” She gathered her stuff up… And the young girl said—no, the boy said to me, he said, “It’s okay, ma’am.” I said, “It is not okay.” And I looked at the young girl and I said, “I’m so sorry.” They take abuse and it’s not okay for me. So then—and I’m hot, I’m still hot. You know, I’m putting all my clothes back on at the end of the line and John comes through the line and I was just like, way, way… I was so hot. And I told him all about it.

And then we were sitting there waiting to get on the plane and she walks by and I said, I could not believe I did this, I said really loudly, “There she is.” When she heard, her steps got quicker as she hurried past. So I’m authentic. I say what I mean. I… that was probably a little harsh, but I cannot stand when there is injustice in the world. So

I think that’s the best example of how I am authentic. I am authentic in the face of dishonesty, of misunderstanding. And I try to understand people. I had an interesting conversation the other night with a woman. Out of the blue, couldn’t have had a more different view than me. And instead of reacting, which, you know, the world is full of that, I listened.

I listened to understand and we still disagreed, but I could understand where she was coming from because she really, I mean, she really believed what she was saying. I’m like, I want to go like this, “You don’t believe that, you’re just kidding. You’re just joking with me, aren’t you?” She was not joking with me. And so how do we face this world where we’re so broken as a world and there’s so much distrust and

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (20:14.826)

and miscommunications. So for me, to be authentic means that I speak truth to power, that I speak truth to myself, and that I strive to make the world a better place.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (20:35.751)

Thank you. Thank you, Vicky. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and friends will be surprised to learn.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (20:36.973)

Well…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (20:50.478)

I don’t know if my friends will be surprised to learn this but to your audience I would say I’ve been battling oral cancer for 11 years. Ironic since I’m an international speaker. At 24 I married a man who was 42 and he had four children; we had full custody. They were 12, 14, 16, and 18, and I was 24. And the third one is, and it’s a little bit of a teaser from what we talked about before, I’ve been to Rwanda 13 times.

And I don’t think all my friends know that one actually. They’re surprised how often I’ve gone.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (21:28.893)

So…

Can we go back and talk about your oral cancer?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (21:34.446)

Sure.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (21:36.755)

Do you want to share a little bit about your journey?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (21:40.206)

So in 2014, I don’t know how many of y’all look around your mouth, but I do. It’s just like a hobby. And I saw something inside my cheek and went to my doctor and she referred me to another doctor who took a biopsy and said, “You have oral cancer.” And then they ask you dumb questions like—well, not “Do you smoke?” that’s not a dumb question—“Do you chew tobacco?” And I’m like,

“Do I look like I chew tobacco?” And the doctor—I was by myself when they told me I had the cancer because John had just turned 75 and it was his birthday week. We had stuff going on. So I went by myself. And you know, a lot of people black out when they hear the word cancer. When the doctor told me I had cancer, we’re back to being authentic here. I said to him, “So… oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is this sexually transmitted?

Because if it is, I’m going to kill my husband.” And he like… he got really uncomfortable. And he goes, “No, no, no, it’s not that kind.” I said, “OK, then proceed.” And they suggested surgery to remove the tumor. So I did that in October of 2014. And then things were OK until the spring of 2015. And there was a little, like a pin mark above my teeth in the front.

Went in to see the oncologist again, he did a biopsy. And he said, “You have cancer and we’re going to have to remove it. And here’s what we’re going to do.” Now, if you know a surgeon, y’all have to quit getting so excited about cutting. The guy’s eyes got shiny like pennies. “Now here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to cut off your upper lip. We’re going to take your lower lip and flip it up. We’re going to sew it together. You’ll talk like this for six weeks.

And then when we open your mouth, you’ll have no corners and your mouth will be 30 to 40% smaller.” To which I gently replied, “I’m gonna look like an effin’ blowfish.” And I did not say effin’. And he goes, “Well, you won’t look the same.” I said, “You’re not going to do that. You’re not taking my voice. I am nothing if not a voice for the women of…”

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (24:06.062)

He goes, “Then you’re going to die.” I said, “Fine, I’ll die.” And I ran out. I didn’t run out, I walked out. I was like, “You’re not cutting my mouth off. You want to hurt me, cut my mouth off.” Some people, you know, like, “Do you want to be blind or deaf or what?” Don’t… don’t. I’ve been talking since I was seven months old. So don’t tell me it’s time to quit talking. So anyway, I went to another surgeon. He recommended—he wanted to do the same surgery. I said, “You’re not doing it. I’m not doing it.”

And he said, “All right, there’s only one other option, it’s radiation. And it’s going to be brutal.”

But for him—he heard me, so I heard him. And I went through 36 radiation treatments to my face. They were brutal. I looked like a burn victim. Every day I’d go in and got through that. The tumor, the tumor was so far out of my mouth when I started that I couldn’t see my upper teeth. It was growing fast.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:44.743)

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (25:08.654)

And it receded. I always think of it like a dragon going back into a cave and it disappeared. And then over the years I’ve had lots of biopsies and I’ve had surgeries. I had part of my palate removed. I’ve had nine surgeries to my face. And then in 2023, I had a lot of cancer in my lower jaw and they said, “This is going to be a big surgery.” So I was in intensive care for seven days, had a tracheostomy. I had a tube going down my throat.

They took skin off my arm and put it in my mouth. It’s called a flap. And that was hard. That was a hard year. And yet I continue to talk. In fact, I was in the hospital with a tracheostomy and I had a poster for all the caregivers to sign. And I put my hand over and go, “Sign my poster.” Because I’m like, you know… and John’s like, “Are you really talking?” I was talking within hours of coming out of the eight-hour surgery because I knew I had to talk.

I needed to talk. I needed to communicate. So everything was OK until 2023 when all my upper teeth got loose. I’m like, “What is going on?” “Oh, that’s a side effect of radiation from 2014–15.” It’s like, you know, the thing about all this is doctors tend to tell you the next step. They don’t tell you, “Hey, this could happen,” because back to my point, people are afraid.

Now as someone who’s not afraid, tell me what’s going to happen. I want to know. If they had said in 2015, “Vic, there’s a very good chance one day your teeth will get loose and you’ll have to have implants.” But they didn’t do that. So every time you face a new surgery, a new storm, I have to recalibrate myself. So here’s the problem. So I got implants over a year ago. It took… 15 months to get my final teeth. But here’s the ironic part. I can’t chew. My jaw doesn’t work because there’s so much scar tissue in my mouth. So mostly I drink two-pump nonfat peppermint lattes or soft foods. And I really don’t know that I’ll ever be able to chew again. And I’m okay. There’s worse fates. I don’t have a feeding tube and…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (27:38.658)

I don’t want a feeding tube and, you know, my life is good. I have a good life. Traveling is hard because, you know, sometimes I take liquids and protein shakes in the plane and TSA has to clear them. By the way, travel trick: if you need to drink on the plane, leave it sealed. Tell them you got it. They’ll run it through and you can take it. You just—you know, like the other day they removed a bottle of hairspray from my purse, from my suitcase. I said, “Please don’t take away

my hairspray.” “I’m sorry, ma’am, you got to pour it out.” It’s like, oh God. So if it’s open, you know, you have all those issues. But there are ways to get through anything, and I’m healthy right now. So cancer came back again. So I’m in infusion treatments right now and I’m getting infusions every three weeks to battle my latest cancer. Because I told my surgeon, I said,

“I’m done. I’m done. You’re not cutting my face anymore. I can’t take it. I just can’t take it mentally. And one of these is going to mess up my voice and mess up my ability to speak.” Already in that big surgery in 2023, they paralyzed my face. They cut a nerve in my lower jaw and they paralyzed my face, which—it really upsets me. But I also did a lot of work around it mentally and they made a mistake. It’s not

sue-worthy. I’m not going to take a case against him. It was like, I have to… this is my journey. So that’s my—and you know, I always say this: I have cancer. Cancer does not have me. There’s a great poster that says, “I don’t often get cancer, but when I do, I beat it like it owes me money.”

That would be back to the warrior comment, Aderonke. So that’s what I do. I keep beating cancer like it owes me money. It’s like, my God, and I’ve never hit any person in the world, but I’d beat the crap out of cancer if I had a chance. I’m trying.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (29:56.701)

How do you maintain

your outlook? How do you find the strength, the courage, the fortitude, the focus to maintain?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (30:15.054)

I’ve had a strong faith almost all my life. And in 2015, when I thought I had cancer again—it wasn’t there, but I thought I had it—so I went on a private three-day retreat to a monastery, a silent retreat, which almost kills me, of course, because, you know, that whole talking thing. Well, anyway, I was there to learn and to pray.

And there was a priest—I’m not Catholic—but this beautiful monastery, there was a priest there who presided over meals. So before I left, I went to go see him and we talked very little at dinner, but, you know, he’s a really nice man. So I went to see him and I said, “Can I talk to you?” He said, “Sure.” I told him my story a little bit. I said, “I think I have cancer again.” And…

He looked at me and he said, “Vicki, I think God wants to use you as a martyr.” And I said, “I’m good. No, no, no, no, I’ll pass.” He goes, “No, no, no, not the way we think of martyrs, you know, like poor me.” He said, “I believe God wants to use you as a symbol of what happens when someone goes through adversity with God on their side.” And in that moment, Aderonke, I said,

“I will do this.” And for every moment—and it’s not something I talk about a lot. It’s definitely something that is very personal. But since you asked, that is the key. I pray. I don’t pray, you know, I’m not praying all the time, but I have a very strong spiritual practice. And by the way, my belief is that there are many ways to God.

And I just happen to be Judeo-Christian because that’s where I was born. But if I lived in another country and another culture and another faith-based system, I think that it is believing in something outside of myself, that God has me, and it brings me comfort. People see me and I’m embarrassed about my face being paralyzed and people say, “I didn’t even notice.” And I know they don’t.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (32:42.232)

But they see something beyond my face. I see my… you know how we all look at—we know what’s going on. But it is my faith that sustains me. And for any of your listeners, I would suggest that if you are in crisis, go to the place that brings you comfort. What brings—it could be your mother’s words. It could be

a faith. It could be a friend or someone that you love that said something to you. And hold on to those things. They really matter. When I was doing my thesis at Harvard, I was writing about ending the use of child soldiers and I interviewed an incredible director called Bryan Single who wrote a movie called Children of War. And he embedded himself in a rehabilitation camp in Uganda

and followed three children. It is the most beautiful movie and it is about loss and heartache and hope and how children can heal from being used—two boys and a girl—being used as child soldiers and sexual tools. And Bryan and I were talking about suffering and I said to him, “How do you handle all the suffering?” And he said, “All suffering

is impermanent,” which is a Buddhist belief. And he actually became a Buddhist after he made the movie. And that has become my clarion call. Whenever something hurts, I say to myself, “All suffering is impermanent.” And I got to tell you, it works. And my mother used to say, dead Rita—another chapter—“This too shall pass.”

Now what she meant was, okay, this is a horrible thing happening, this is gonna pass. But what I did in that chapter was say, but it all passes. The good passes. And if we don’t embrace that… so I embrace everything. Like this moment between you and I right now will pass. We’ll never have it again like this. And if I’m not fully engaged in it and loving seeing you and being with you, I’ll miss it. So…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (35:10.03)

My ability to handle things has to do with my faith and that God has this. I’m not afraid to die. I don’t want to die, but I’m not afraid of it. And I know a lot of people are afraid to die. I’ve got much to do in the world. So I’m really not in a hurry, but what do I know? I mean, honest to God, sometimes I walk across the street. I could get hit by a bus so easy, it’s not funny. So that’s how I’ve done it. It’s been with my faith

and a belief in something other than myself and that this is my hero’s journey. This is… that I don’t have a choice. I don’t like the idea that, “What do you think you did to get cancer, Vicki?” You’ll get that one from people. “You know, cancer’s trying to teach you something.” Yeah, well, I’m still trying to beat it like it owes me money. So let’s talk about something else. And for me, that is not a reasonable discussion.

I know cancer is teaching me something. It’s making me stronger. It’s making me the warrior I am. But it is my faith that sustains me through it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (36:22.397)

Thank you, Vicky. Thank you so much.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (36:23.5)

You’re welcome.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (36:43.443)

Can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you’re particularly proud of?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (36:53.179)

I think getting my degree from Harvard.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (37:00.472)

So in 2015… there was a presidential race going on and I was watching a lot of injustice, a lot of hatred, a lot of name-calling. And I called it out. I did a video and said, hey, we got differences, but the name-calling reminded me of what happened in Rwanda. You know, people were called cockroaches and tall trees and the world ignored it until the genocide came in 1994.

And as I was watching a candidate just spew lies and cruelty, I did a video that said, hey, you know, I’m on Facebook, the place where old people go to die. So here I am with all my old friends. I got a napkin. I got a cocktail napkin, Aderonke, that says, “Can you believe we’re the same age as old people?” No, I cannot. Anyway, here I am on Facebook.

I make this video like, “If you’re for him, we’re not friends.” Bold. Well, I got such blowback and I didn’t care because it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, we’re not going there. He got elected. And then I went to the Women’s March in DC. Three million people. I was there with Women for Women International, an international organization that advocates for women.

And I stood for eight hours in one place, turned around to march. You couldn’t move. I mean, you’re marching at like an inch a minute. Seriously. Anyway, got done with all that and I was flying home and I was thinking to myself, “So what?”

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (38:54.19)

And then I got irritated and I thought, damn it, I’m kind of in the sunset of my career here. I cannot sit down. I’ve got to fight this. So I thought about… I have an undergrad degree from 1981, which is impressive to no one at this point in my life. And I’ve had a great career. I mean, I’ve had an amazing life and career, but I wanted to get…

And I don’t need an MBA. I’m a good businesswoman. But I thought, what if I went to Harvard? No, there’s no damn way I’m going to Harvard. And I applied and I got in. And I never thought I was smart, Aderonke. I always thought I was street smart. You know, I was clever. My undergrad degree GPA proved I wasn’t smart from my grades, but I was working

40 to 50 hours a week and taking 15 credit hours. I was insane in my early 20s. Got my degree in accounting, had a great career in business. But here I am in my—I think I was 60 at the time—and I thought, what if I got my degree from Harvard? I matriculated in and began my degree in anthropology and archaeology. And my thesis was on ending the use of child soldiers as weapons of war. I’m a

media anthropologist. So I study film and communication. So it’s perfect. I haven’t dug up any bones lately, even in my own backyard, but I’m more interested in the anthropology, the study of people. When I graduated—so that was in May of 2023 after my giant surgery in February, didn’t even know if I could make it. When I graduated with honors from Harvard in May of 2023,

I realized, you know, these lies we tell ourselves: I’m not smart. I’m not pretty. I’m not whatever. I’m not. And I thought, I’m intelligent. I’m intelligent. I can… and I learned to think differently. I learned to write academically. And it was a moment of such self-kindness to say, I did it. And we…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (41:18.35)

We partied and we celebrated and it’s something that will stay with me for the rest of my life. And my grandkids, they’re really proud of their grandma who went to Harvard. I remember when I was telling my grandson, he was about 12 or 13, I said, “Vitsy”—they call me Vitsy—“Vitsy’s going to Harvard.” He goes, “In Cambridge?” I thought, you know where Harvard is? You go, boy. So my family is super proud of me. My husband is like,

shuffed beyond belief that his girl has done so much. And I couldn’t have done it without the support of all of them. And it took a ton of discipline because I was working full time again. When I was talking to my own coach years ago about this, I said, “Paul, I don’t know if I can do this.” He said—when he got his PhD, he said, “Look, I did it in ’95 because I could work all the time,” which is not cool when you’re married.

And I’ve been married 44 years, so I got to watch it. You know, I want to keep this really healthy. But I worked on my thesis—not all day long—but at five o’clock, it’s happy hour. So we would stop and I would… and I kept that discipline through the whole process and it served me well. So I’m super proud of that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (42:43.645)

Thank you for sharing that story. And tell us about a time when you made a difference in another’s life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (42:54.488)

So in 20…

1. My mother died in 1998. In 2016, my father died. And we were close. It was a complicated relationship, not like Rita. But Dad and I were very close. And he was in his early 80s and had had a massive stroke, lost a leg, was blind, but still talking. And we were chatting. But he began to have a failure-to-thrive issue. And one night,

on the 15th of March, I went to visit him. He’d remarried to the love of his life; he really found his soulmate in Annie, which I was glad. My mother was not his soulmate, but… So they were happy. And I went to visit Mr. Papa. He called me Miss Vicki. I called him Mr. Papa. And I thought, I don’t know if he’s going to make it. But I didn’t think I should stay overnight. I don’t know why. I just knew.

So as I said goodbye, I said, “OK, Mr. Papa, I got to go.” And he said, “Well, if you got to go, you got to go.” And as I closed the door, I told him I love him, and I thought, If you’ve got to go, you’ve got to go. He’s going to go. And sure as not, next morning at 5:30, Annie called and said he died. I went over to see him. And it’s never good looking at someone who’s died. But I wanted to say goodbye to him.

I was crying and that night we were supposed to go to an event for Girls Inc. Girls Inc. is an organization that teaches young girls to be strong, smart and bold. Now, Mr. Papa was complicated, but he taught me to be strong, smart and bold. And so I said, I’m going. So John and I went and I had like two tables of people there for me at the art museum. We had a great event. And you know, when people say, “How are you?” I don’t go like…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (44:57.644)

“I’m good. My dad died today. How are you?” I didn’t say a word. I didn’t say a word to anybody because I was there to honor my dad. And that night when I got home, I wrote to everybody and I said, “I just want you all to know my dad died today. But I came because he is the one that made me strong, smart and bold.” And a friend wrote back to me and he said, “Vic, I never would have guessed, but you honored your father more by your action than your grief.” So a couple of months later,

I was asked to speak at the United Nations. I used that expression in my speech. And then I went to Rwanda in July or so. And I coach over there. So I coach young people, coach everyone. And I would say, “What are your dreams?” And this young boy came in and I said, “What are your dreams?” And he said, “I have no dreams.” I said, “Why not?”

He said, “I watched them cut off my mother’s head.”

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (46:02.7)

The sadness in his heart, the look on his face, and I said to him—he’d given up—I said, “You know, I don’t think your mother would want you to give up. I think she would want you to honor her more by your action than your grief. Because what if she’s looking down through those windows…

And no mother is prouder of her son.” And he just took it all in, didn’t say a word. Then I was back in Rwanda three months later to speak at a conference. And the man that he was living with, because people just take in all these kids, he came up and he goes, “Vic, I got to talk to you. I don’t know what you said to him.

But the next day he changed.” He said,

“He kept repeating this sentence.” I said, “That he will honor his mother more by his action than his grief?” And he goes, “Yes.” He went on to graduate from college, get married, have children. And I’ll never forget him because it is in those moments where we can make a difference. And I didn’t do it for all of that. I just shared with him my heart, but it struck a chord. And if I hadn’t gone to the event at the art museum,

I never… Nermy wouldn’t have said that to me. I wouldn’t have used it at the United Nations. I wouldn’t have used it with him. And I still use it with me, even in my own life. I honor my journey more by my action than my grief. And so that was how I made a difference in another’s life.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (47:56.712)

What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (48:05.608)

I am persistent. When I want something—I was just talking to a young woman the other day. She’s full of ideas. And I said, I mean, good ideas, too. She goes, “I can’t focus.” And I said, “Pick one and say, would you go to the mat for it? Would you leave your world for this?” You go to Harvard, you got a ton of studying to do. Am I willing to give up behaviors and activities that don’t get me

to my finish line on time? So that is one thing that I have is a lot of persistence and I’m a road warrior. I can travel with the best of them. And I remember my first trip to Rwanda—and I’d traveled for 24 hours before in the world, but it was like 23 hours. I’m sitting in coach. My ankles are the size of my calves. I’m just hot and tired. And I looked around and I said, “This is

hard.” I looked around the plane—this is in 2005—and it was filled with predominantly Africans of all countries. And they’re all dressed, they’re all in… and not inexpensive clothes, you know, but they’re really proud and they’re… and I looked around and I said, here I sit with my 300-dollar noise reduction headphones complaining about, “Is it hard?” And…

I said, no one’s making me go on this trip. And I decided never again to complain. And to that point, my longest trip to Rwanda has taken me 52 hours. So that was a series of planes, trains, and automobiles things, you know, delays and stuff. But here’s my mantra now: I can do any trip less than 52 hours. What do you got? So I’m persistent. And, you know, I tell the truth.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (49:57.873)

Hahaha!

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (50:05.152)

In Rwanda, our foundation was seen differently. A lot of NGOs are there, they’re self-serving. They’re there to do things that they think the people need. And everyone to the person said to me, “Mama, Itafari is not that way. You were here for us and you did what we wanted you to do. And we thank you for that.” And the third thing is I’m a passionate girl.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (50:15.027)

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (50:30.57)

Man, when I get excited, I get excited. I come from a long line—I don’t know if this is the same thing—but on both my mother and my father’s side, I come from a long line of lusty, passionate women. Now I skipped my mother. Rita was the… like I said, she was the lady. But honest to God, the women in my family, they were passionate and lusty. I’m all that stuff. And so my passion—I know when I’m passionate and if I want something, I go get it.

So I think those are the qualities that describe how I get what I want.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (51:08.517)

Vicky, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (51:19.288)

I’m gonna go back to

my cancer again, because it’s still in my face, no pun intended. So I touched briefly on the idea of the hero’s journey. And if you know Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, he talks about each of us having our hero’s journey. And it doesn’t mean we feel like a hero at the moment, but the idea is the hero sets out on a journey,

encounters difficulty, learns from it, continues their quest, rinse, lather, repeat. So what I’ve learned is—and this is where I put down my sword. I don’t like those “F-U cancer” shirts and stuff. I don’t like them because I don’t want to encounter difficulty with difficulty. I’m like, “Bring it. You bring it,” but

I’m not going to hate it. I don’t hate cancer. I would not wish what’s happened to me on any other person. But this has been… I have overcome cancer a lot of times, and I never wanted to be a poster child for cancer. Evidently I am. You know, when you hear from others, “Wow, you’re such an inspiration. You helped me so much.” That was never my intention, but I did write

back in 2014–15 when I was at that monastery, because I don’t like cancer. So I said—I love acronyms though, as you well know. And so I wanted an acronym for CANCER and I prayed and I said, “God, give me an acronym for cancer.” And this is what flowed off my pen: C, compassion for myself and others. A, acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit. N, no fear of the future.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (53:20.308)

C, Christ is my rock, my anchor and my rope. E, every need shall be met. R, rejoice in his grace. And I went, where did that come from? Because it came off as quickly as I could write it. So I believe that… have I completely overcome cancer? No. Am I continuing on this journey? Yes. And that journey allows me to

settle in and remember that all suffering is impermanent.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (54:00.175)

I’m almost speechless. I really am. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing, for your authenticity, your bravery in action.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (54:16.781)

You’re welcome.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (54:19.089)

You are listening to ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter podcast.

Welcome back to ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Vicky Trabosh. Vicky, I want to just take a step back before I go to the next question, which is about self-care. I want to talk about how you and I met. Do you remember? And I want to hear your perspective and then

to make sure that… to see how our recollections line up.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (54:59.84)

Okay, so the way I remember us meeting is online and we were part of a facilitation group and we were thrown into a breakout room together and honestly, Aderonke, you dazzled me. I saw this beautiful, intelligent, kind, thoughtful woman and thought, I want to know more about her. And then we talked.

And then we were at a conference together only last year. It seems like a hundred years ago. And we sat and we laughed so hard and had such a great time and talked about going to Rwanda together. And you said—and you’ve traveled the world extensively—and you said, “I want to go to Rwanda.” I said, “Well, I’m taking a tour group and I want you to help me co-host it.” And you said, “I’m in,” and we were in. So you have been… the strength that you have, the…

Your wisdom, you’re a wise woman and water seeks its own level. I do know I’m wise. And so you are just someone that I seek for comfort. You’ve been very comforting to me through this whole Rwanda tour thing we’ve done and so encouraging. You’re such an encourager of others as your podcast shows, as this whole…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (56:25.334)

journey of your shows. And so that’s how I remember us. Now how do you remember?

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:30.643)

…I remember, I definitely remember us being in a breakout room together, part of an organization that both of us belonged to. And I remember thinking, you are so funny. And I wanted to hear more of your stories. And I know when we were in the breakout room, because when you’re in those breakout rooms, you don’t have long. You’re given an assignment, you’re supposed to get in and get out with the assignment completed. And so,

I remember us exchanging contact information so that we can talk outside of whatever course we were doing. And we had some online sessions and online conversations rather. And we were supposed to both go to the conference in 2023, but you had just had surgery and you weren’t healed enough to come.

And so I went and then the next year we both said that we will go again and you were able to make the trip. And I remember seeing you for the first time because that was the first time we had actually physically met despite our many conversations. And us agreeing, we’ll sit and have lunch together during the conference. And we did and you talked about Rwanda and I said, “I’m coming, I’m coming with you.”

And that’s how we were able to connect around our shared passions, our focus and desire to help others. And we had a whole plan. We had a whole plan for Rwanda and the webinars that you did were so slick, were so well produced

and they were flawless, they were effortless. And I appreciated being part of that production. Maybe if I can find them, I’ll put some links on the podcast webpage with your interview so people can see the production and what we talked about, just in case anybody wants to go to Rwanda, because we did not make it this year.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:57.971)

We did not make it. But as you and I have talked about, I don’t think we were supposed to go just yet. Because everything aligned for you to pull back everything that you have poured into it. And so I feel that our time will come. And it will be an even…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (58:58.177)

—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (59:26.343)

more advantageous time for us to be there together.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (59:32.11)

I agree. I will of course go back. I love Rwanda. I love the people. And I would love to see Rwanda through your eyes. Because you have traveled extensively on the continent and you have a great perspective. And I know how much value you would bring. We had talked about going to the high school we built and you working with the teachers. So often we work with the kids. But for you to work with the teachers, you would be dazzled, Aderonke.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (59:43.603)

Mm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (59:55.784)

Yes.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:00:01.174)

Dazzled. And they of course would adore you. But the thing about a place like Rwanda is I always, always get more than I give.

And even that young boy I talked about, you know, all that taught me was have the courage to say what you believe. How did I know what to say to a deeply traumatized boy? I didn’t. I’m not a psychiatrist. I’m not a psychologist. In fact, if I was, I probably wouldn’t have said any of that. But my heart spoke to me. And that’s what happened with you and I and these podcasts. They were slick, weren’t they? My God, they were so good. And everybody that watched them loved them.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:00:21.799)

Mm-hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:00:39.905)

Bye, Bryan.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:00:43.88)

And because you saw all the passion—as you, me and a friend, another friend who’d been to Rwanda with me, Sarah Neely, we were going to be the co-hosts. And then Christophe from Rwanda came on. He was my country director, dear man to me. We were going to go to his cooperative and get clothes made. I mean, it was a… we had a good trip planned. And yet everything in its time.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:01:11.687)

Yes, yeah, I agree. I think everything in its time and the next time will be right. So I am looking forward to being in Rwanda and helping to support the programs that you have created and helping in any way that I can

by listening and asking hopefully good questions and hearing what is needed.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:01:48.271)

Vicky, what self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:01:58.52)

So I heard an interesting definition of self-care and it’s not what we necessarily think about. So there’s self-care and then there’s self-maintenance. And self-maintenance is taking care of your needs, maybe massages and your body and taking care of your hair. I mean, getting ready every day. You know, I… dead Rita always—

Dead Rita looked good every single day and she was so tired. She worked hard. She had three kids juggling everything and every morning we’d get ready for work and school in the morning together. She’d be in the bathroom with her coffee and her cigarette. The air was a nice bluish tinge and I’d be looking at her in the mirror and she was so tired. She had puffs under her eyes and—beautiful woman though—and I’d say, “Mother,

why do you do that?” Because she always looked good. I mean, she always looked good. I said, “Why do you do this?” And she said—she stopped and she looked at me in the mirror and she said, “Vic, today could be the most important day of my life and I have to be ready.”

And that’s how I look at it. So all that stuff falls under self-maintenance. When I go to the infusion clinic for my treatments, I’m all dressed up and people there are so sick, Aderonke. It breaks my heart. But I cannot… I’m not dumbing this down. I’m not going to look whatever because I’m like, no.

This is who I am. I have to be ready. And when I do that, that makes me feel good about myself. Now that’s self-maintenance to me. Self-care is the things I do to live this full life. Now you could call self-maintenance working out, but I do work out because I need strength. I need strength for this journey. So physical workout

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:04:14.526)

is like something I have to do. And one of the things I do for self-care is I love deeply. I love so deeply and passionately. When I met John when I was 22, I had a catch-and-release program going with men. I was deeply loving seven men at the time. And then I met John.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:04:37.491)

You…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:04:40.608)

It’s a good expression, isn’t it?

So true. But I’ve always been passionate. I’ve always told a man, you know, I don’t play games at all in love. And it was like, “Oh yeah, I love you.” And they go, “I love you too. Let’s get married.” “Okay, let’s get married.” Then I’d go, “Nah, I don’t want to marry you.” But I love deeply. I am passionately in love with John after 44 years. He is adorable. He’s 86 years old. He looks fantastic. He’s got a great mind.

Now I’ve got one cancer, he’s got four because he’s evidently an overachiever. But in his cancer journey, he’s okay. But we don’t know how long life is going to last. It could end tomorrow. So I do not waste any time. We are not petty and I love deeply. I love my children and my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren. And then I think, for self-care, I have a great

attitude of gratitude. I am so thankful for this life in its entirety. Not “Yes, but except for cancer.” This life, everything has brought me to this point—who I am today—that I can still make you laugh and throw your head back and be happy. And it makes me happy to—you know, every comedian needs a good audience. So thank you very much for today. But those are the things that make me believe

that those are the strengths and qualities, this persistence, truth, and passion.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:06:27.741)

How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:06:42.368)

One of my philosophies is high intention, low attachment. So to everything I do, I have the highest intention of making a difference in the world in the ways I can make a difference. In fact, this podcast is a great example. I came in today prepared with high intention, low attachment. I want to make a difference to your listeners. Low attachment means

I have no say over what happens. I don’t know if it will matter to them. We could have lost them at minute 12 when I started talking about dead Rita. They could have said, “I’m out. Sorry about that.” But dead Rita is worth listening to, I’ll tell you that. Anyway, so my belief is that

I create a difference with my high intention. Does it have a positive effect? Yes, I could tell you dozens and dozens of stories of people who told me, “You changed my life.” But isn’t that what we all want to do? And it’s nothing to brag about. If I’m living my purpose, if I’m doing what I’m supposed to, of course I will change lives. And to that I say thank you. So it is with high intent. Now, if I have high intention, high attachment, that’s going to kill me

because then I’m going to be upset if nobody gets it. But if I can have high intention, low attachment, it’s not that I don’t care that I make a difference. It’s that I let go of what I don’t control. It’s the AA prayer: “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” And low attachment is the wisdom to know the difference. So that’s how I do it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:08:30.963)

What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:08:41.708)

I’m more interested—I do a lot of public speaking—but I want to do more keynotes. I did a keynote in June in Chicago. And honest to God, to talk about laughter, the walls were ringing with laughter, which of course made me so happy. And I was talking about adversity and how to face it. And so in these topics, you know, they’re tough topics, but they don’t have to be sad ones.

In fact, your audience can’t… you can’t keep beating them down. And then the new exciting thing I’m doing is I’m writing a new book called Bowling Trophy Wife. So you’ve all heard of a trophy wife. So in 1981, I was a trophy wife. I was young and blonde and John was handsome and older. So I was a trophy wife. Well, evidently after 44 years, I’m not young and blonde anymore. And so I said to myself one day,

“I used to be a trophy wife, now I’m a bowling trophy wife.” Y’all gone bowling ever? You know, you get a big trophy. It’s not the same as like a graduation. So it’s humor and I’ve written a book and I’m working on it right now. And it’s about how to navigate relationships, especially blended families, because that’s what we’ve done for the last 44 years. And I’m going to talk about everything from intimacy to communication to estate planning

to attitudes. You know, when I married John, I was 24, he was 42, the kids were 12, 14, 16 and 18. People would ask me if I had kids and I’d say, “I have about 700 pounds worth.” I don’t know why I described them in poundage, but I was a little overwhelmed. So these kids did not ask for me. John and I fell in love outside of their relationship. I had nothing to do with, you know, the divorce or anything.

And here I am in love with this man, never wanted to get married, impossible situation, but somehow—and this is my wisdom—I knew… it’s like, you know, a lot of people have trouble with stepkids. “I hate my stepkids. They’re awful.” And I’m like, “Hey, these kids did not ask for me. I didn’t ask for them. But this is the way it’s going to be. And if I’m the adult here, I’m going to use compassion,

kindness, humor, never forget who I am— I’m in charge—strong boundaries. And that’s how I did it. I’d never been married. I never had kids. I didn’t want kids. And God said, “Great, I’ll give you four.” “Okay, thanks a lot, God.” And it’s been the joy of my life. And as you know, kids teach you to be unselfish. You can’t be selfish with kids because they’ll call you on it and they need you. So I knew they needed me not as their mother, as their parent.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:11:05.048)

And now after all these years, I have a 63, a 61, a 59 and a 57-year-old, eight grandchildren, six extra grandchildren, four Rwandan, two Colombian, because, you know, we kind of love all these people. And then I have four great-grandchildren. So as I like to say, that’s the great thing about being a young stepmother and then a mother and then a grandmother. I’m pretty hot for a great-grandmother. Because no matter how old I am,

John’s still 18 years older, so he’s 86, I’m 68, I’m hot. He’ll be 90, I’ll be 72, I’ll be hot. Ninety-year-olds look at 70-year-olds and go, “Hubba hubba.” So I got this, you know, it’s like… One time my grandson—another grandson—said to his mother, he said, “You know, Vitsy’s not like other grandmas.” And I go, “You got that right, buddy.” I’m outspoken, I’m…

I’d take a bullet for ’em. I don’t embarrass my grandkids. I don’t embarrass them. That’s a rule. I don’t embarrass my kids either. I don’t like that. I don’t like when parents are like super embarrassing. My mother never embarrassed me. And so I learned that from her, but…

Yeah, that’s my answer. Can’t remember the question. Sorry.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:12:53.715)

It was about exciting opportunities.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:12:59.182)

Thank you. So Bowling Trophy Wife is coming out early next year, late at the end of the year, and I’ll be talking about it and sharing ways for people to understand all relationships, not just blended families.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:13:18.535)

The wisdom that you had at that time in order to be able to embrace a ready-made family, a blended family, how did that come about? Because you hear the stories of people—you just hear them and you know of them. How were you able to embrace it at a young age? Because when I think back to when I was 24,

it was still about me, what I needed to do for my career, where I needed to go, how I was getting there. And you were young, I’m trying… in a catch-and-release program. How were you able to settle? And what I mean settle, settle

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:14:04.223)

It’s a great way to put it, isn’t it?

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:14:16.453)

in order to be a parent, in order to be a wife supporting a spouse with kids? How were you able to settle within yourself? That’s what I mean by settle.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:14:30.712)

Well, at 22 when I met John, it was two things. I was a man-eater and I was ruthless in my career. My goal was to be on the cover of Time before I was 30. And I was going there. I had a responsible job. That’s where I met John, in a business meeting. I was the only woman in the meeting and I was checking out all the men. I would… because you know my thing.

So I’m looking and I did not look at their… Like a man who’s well dressed. So I would scan their ties. And if they had a good-looking tie, I’d look up at their face. So I’m scanning ties across the room and I look and John’s got this—it’s called Countess Mara, I don’t even know if the brand exists anymore—nice line of ties. John’s got this Countess Mara, which I found out later, Countess Mara tie. I look at the tie, go, nice tie. I look up at his face, I go, not bad. So I was like, you know… I was intent on changing the world in my ways, never getting married, never having kids, and being on the cover of Time. Then I meet John. It’s like, I did not intend to fall in love. And I knew he was the one because I was willing to leave my entire world, including my mother, Rita. Meaning I would have to leave Indiana, go to Cleveland. She was so…

My mother and I did not disagree, but man, she did everything but throw herself in front of a train to try to stop this thing. Because here’s a man only eight years younger than her with four kids. She thought I was settling. But I knew he was the one. I knew if I could leave my mother for him, he was the

one. So when I decided to be with him…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:16:21.134)

I was working. I graduated from Indiana University, got my degree in accounting, moved to Cleveland, got a job as a controller for a manufacturing firm. Right away, you know, the kids are in school and I was a latchkey kid, meaning, you know, my parents both worked; at the end of the day, I’d come home from school, call my mom. So right out of the gate, the kids started calling me. I was going to sit for the CPA exam in November of 1981. So this is August.

School started and one of the kids called me. “Hi, how are you?” “Good, good.” “How was your day?” You know, the usual. “What time are you gonna be home?” “Oh, shit, I gotta get home, cook dinner,” because I’m a cook. And I said, “Six o’clock.” Now I was used to working till 11 o’clock at night. Got home, cooked the meal. I take my briefcase—you know, those were the days of briefcases.

And I had all my stuff for the CPA exam, trying to get all this done. And all of a sudden I’m like… I didn’t even open that briefcase, took it back to work the next day. The next day the phone rings. It’s the other kid. “How was school? What time are you going to be home?” And I thought, oh God, this is not going the way I thought it was going to go. So as I got closer to the November date of taking the test, I was not ready.

And I knew, because I’m a workaholic, I knew if I decided to pursue my CPA, I wouldn’t be able to be a good parent. So I waited. And it was like, do I want to get my CPA? That’s not easy. How hard is it to be a good stepparent? Of those two, this is much harder, to be a stepparent. That’s what I’m going for. I want to be a great stepparent.

I gave up my dream of getting my CPA. And here’s what I know. When we follow our wisdom—and that’s that still, you know, the ego always speaks first and loudest. The soul whispers and is persistent. And my soul was saying, Try the stepparent thing. You want to be challenged? Not anybody can get their CPA, but you could do that, Vic. What about this?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:18:42.434)

And I knew that was the way to go. And I never got my CPA. Whenever I see accountants, I want to put my hands in the air and go, “My people!”

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:18:50.553)

Hahaha.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:18:53.736)

I feel that way. I love accountants. And don’t hold that against me.

The thing about choosing to be a stepparent, and I was doing that… Then we moved to Oregon in 1982, and I wasn’t working. I decided not to work. John said, “Do what you want. You wanna work? Don’t work. Do what you want.” And then I got everything under control within like six months. Then I started doing some work and I started a new business when my son went into the army. So I’ve been working for the last

50 years pretty much, except for two or three years. And the opportunities that have come my way because I listened to my wisdom against all odds—it was insane to choose to be a stepparent rather than follow my career dreams. And I never look back. I don’t believe in parallel universes: if I’d done that…

You know, I would have gone on to be a CPA, would have worked for a big accounting firm, would have gotten divorced, would have been married again, maybe got a divorce, blah blah. That’s not my path. This idea of embracing this family has changed my life. And it’s given me more than anything. Where did that wisdom come from? I don’t know, Aderonke. I’ve had it ever since I was born. And…

I always listened to dead Rita, except about John, because she didn’t know anything about that. She was wrong about that. I knew she was wrong. I didn’t hold it against her. And about a year after we were married, she was visiting and she said, “I was wrong.” I said, “What were you wrong about?” She was never wrong about anything. She goes, “I was wrong about John. He’s the one.” I go, “Thanks.” And that was her grace. She didn’t hold back saying when she was wrong. So the wisdom—I’ve had it.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:20:56.586)

And there’s that scripture that says, “To whom much is given, much is required.” I can’t waste it. And I don’t. I don’t waste that wisdom that I have. I don’t know where it comes from. Dead Rita’s Wisdom is no joke, because her wisdom became mine, and then I added to it. So I think it is lucky, very lucky, to have had the mother I had and to know she lived her perfect life.

I wanted so much more for her, and yet she was on her path.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:21:27.877)

Mm. Mm.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:21:32.92)

And if there are windows in heaven, she is watching right now and she’s smiling.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:21:42.803)

What brings you joy?

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:21:47.049)

I would say…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:21:51.8)

Bringing laughter to others brings me joy. Changing lives brings me joy. Overcoming my own challenges brings me joy. I, you know, every single time I chew food, every single bite is distressing

and I have to recalibrate. And the moment I recalibrate, I have joy. Love brings me joy. We have an expression around here. I always say to John, “I just had a burst of happiness.” And he knows what that means. And they come out of nowhere. It’s just this feeling in me. So joy is… I don’t necessarily seek joy, but I recognize it when it comes. And I celebrate in the moment. When I first got oral cancer, I was watching a video of a

CEO in Washington State that had it. And you know, I’m a goal-oriented person, so when I hit my goal, then I celebrate. And he said, “With cancer, don’t wait. Celebrate a good day. Celebrate a positive doctor visit. Celebrate a birthday. Celebrate beautiful weather. Celebrate good podcasts.” And so I started doing that rather than waiting,

like “As soon as this cancer is over, then I’ll celebrate.” Well, I have yet to ring the damn bell. You know, in those infusion centers, you get to ring the bell. I’m not ringing no damn bell. There’s no damn bells in my future right now. And that’s okay. ’Cause I’m not waiting to ring. I ring my own bells. It’s the truth. So what brings me joy is being really present and living this life to the best of my ability and stopping in the moment and

looking around and saying, How do I feel about this? We got two kitties. They bring me a ton of joy. And they’re cats, for God’s sakes. You know, how do cats do that? I don’t know, but they do.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:24:01.64)

Vicky, we’re coming to the end of this incredible, eye-opening,

heartwarming,

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:24:15.475)

touching conversation.

What book recommendation do you have? It can be a book you’ve read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:24:29.26)

A book that really resonates with me is The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. It is the hero’s journey. It’s about a shepherd—and I recommend it to the world. It’s about a shepherd who heads out to find his treasure. And it’s a beautifully written story. And he encounters difficulty. He learns from it. He continues—rinse, lather, repeat. And that’s how I see the world.

We have to be… we are each on our hero’s journey. If you read the book, it’s a fable, but the message, and it’s beautifully written. It’s, I don’t know how many dozens of languages it’s in, but I think it’s a book I would recommend to people if they’re trying to find their way. “What is my way?” Because once you accept, okay, I don’t care what’s going on. This is my hero’s journey. One day,

if John dies before me, that will be on my journey. I cannot imagine life without him. But I also know that it’s a distinct possibility. And if it happens, I will have to be ready for that too and find my way through it. So my understanding of the world is that if we just…

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:25:57.063)

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:26:06.008)

You know what they used to say in school when you took a test, “Keep your eyes on your own paper”?

I don’t compare myself to others. When I was heavier, I’d say, “Oh, Mother, I’m so fat.” And she’d say, “Well, you’re not as fat as her.” It’s like, Rita, that was not helpful. Comparison is the thief of joy. So I don’t compare my journey to others. I don’t recommend it.

God knows that I’ve been given the strength to deal with it. And I don’t know that God gives us what we can handle. I don’t know about all that, but I know that this is my journey and I’m gonna stay on my path.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:27:02.415)

Vicky, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. Is there anything else? Do you have any final…

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:27:12.62)

Yeah.

The first time I went to Rwanda—I think you’ve heard this story before, but it’s a good one, and it’s about you actually, Aderonke. I was there with World Vision and we went to visit a child-headed household that World Vision had built a home for them. And we walked into the house, very, very modest home, but it was hard walls, hard floor. It was a big difference from a mud hut. And this little family,

a girl who’d raised her siblings after the genocide, she was like 14 and she raised her three siblings; she was now like 18 or 19. They had a meal for us and it was one plate and seven forks. They didn’t have plates. And as we ate that meal together, I realized if we give what we are, that’s all that we need to give. And when I was in Rwanda, I was being interviewed back in Portland

on a live radio show. And I was talking about this meal. And one of the co-hosts said, “What about the hungry in Oregon?” And I said, “Rebecca,

I don’t know why I have a passion for Rwanda, but I do. If you care about the hungry in Oregon, what are you doing about it? Because if each of us does what we are most passionate about, we will change the world.” So Aderonke, I want to thank you for changing the world in the ways you do, for the joy you bring, for your podcasts, for your energy. And that’s how I want to end. I was thinking about that and I thought,

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:28:56.898)

When you bring your passion to the world, that’s all you need to bring and it changes lives. So thank you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:29:10.813)

Vicky, thank you.

Thank you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:29:30.813)

I want to find the words and I’m just choked up. It’s… it’s… I want to find the words to

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:29:43.441)

honor this conversation, to

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:29:53.203)

truly recognize your strength and…

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:30:01.618)

and my deep appreciation for you,

my total respect for…

how I understand you live your life. And I want to say thank you. I’m so thrilled we got to meet back in 2023 and I’ve appreciated the times that we’ve shared together and the laughter that we’ve had and

the wisdom that you have shared with me, not just today, but often through our conversations. And I want to share some of the many, many, many appreciation nuggets that I’ve taken from our conversation. You said you want to put the skunk on the table in order to be able

to address things. You have a sweatshirt that says, “Underestimate me. That will be fun.”

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:31:25.337)

Adversity does not need to define us.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:31:34.7)

And that you are unconditionally constructive.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:31:45.702)

If you’re in a crisis, go to the place that brings you comfort. All suffering is impermanent. And there are so many—I’ve written pages from our notes, from our conversation, pages of notes from our conversations. And I appreciate your wisdom. And you’ve said dead Rita’s wisdom is no joke. And you’ve been able to add yours to hers.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:31:57.23)

—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:32:16.207)

And I want to say thank you. Thank you for saying yes to being a guest on the podcast. And thank you for sharing so fully. I appreciate you taking the time to join me on ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories

and wisdom of people you may know. Victoria Trabosh, thank you.

Victoria (Vicky) Trabosh (01:32:53.24)

Thank you, my friend.