S2 Ep45. Healing, Growth and Ripples: Dr. Diedra Manns on Life After Cancer

In this heartfelt episode of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, host Aderonke Bademosi Wilson welcomes Dr. Diedra Manns, a seasoned physical therapist, devoted guide, conscious leader and cancer survivor. Dr. Manns reflects on nearly three decades in healthcare, sharing the story of her grandmother's influence, her journey from taping up high school athletes to guiding clients through major life transitions and the personal experience that shaped her focus on midlife women's wellness.

Listeners delve into empowering conversations on menopause, advocacy for integrative and personalized care and the transformative power of self-leadership. Diedra candidly discusses the lack of medical awareness around menopause, the importance of bone density scans for women earlier in life and ways women can advocate for themselves in medical settings.

The episode highlights Diedra’s dedication to creating safe, restorative spaces, especially for high-achieving women struggling with sleep and stress. Hear her personal stories of resilience, embracing uncertainty after a business transition and the ripple effects of sharing triumphs with family, community and the world. The conversation is rich with strategies for self-care: Mediterranean-style cooking, daily movement, mindful rest and the joy found in nature, travel and creative pursuits.

Diedra shares inspiring lessons from her cancer journey, discusses current research, and offers practical advice to listeners navigating perimenopause and menopause. Throughout, her mantra is clear: trust your intuition, celebrate self-leadership and choose your own adventure.

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Transcript

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:01.162)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I’m Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest on today’s show is Dr. Deidra Manns. Dr. Manns is a physical therapist, partner, guide. Dr. Manns, welcome to the show.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (00:33.976)

Hey there, thank you so much for having me, Aderonke. I am so excited to be here. Thank you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:40.162)

And Deidra, the descriptors that you use, tell me about being a physiotherapist.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (00:47.106)

Well, it’s been a part of my life for, I guess I’m almost on, I’m celebrating like 28 years at this point. So I’ve been doing it for a while, and it is the way that I have entered the medical profession in the field of healthcare. I have seen it as a way for me to really impact my clients, to have time with them, to see them through a series of challenges and help them get to the other side. And it’s a way for me to really find joy in helping others.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:29.750)

What attracted you to the field?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (01:33.730)

Interesting. My grandmother was a nurse and she had a lot of impact. She had a lot of impact in my life in general. I have modeled a lot of my life around her and her influence. But I knew that I didn’t really want to do nursing, and I didn’t want to be a physician either, because I really did want to spend more time with my clients. I knew that I didn’t want to spend, you know, five or eight minutes with someone and give them a medication and that was that. I really wanted to have more time with them.

And I was in high school at the time and the athletic trainer for our football team was looking for some assistance, and I was asked to help. And the rest is kind of history.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (02:32.140)

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. You’ve defined yourself as a guide. What type of guide?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (02:40.302)

Interesting. I guide people in transition. That’s probably what I, if I had to put just one word on it, I guide people through transition. Including in my physical therapy practice, people are transitioning from one state to another. I guide people in my education. As I’m teaching right now, my practice is working with midlife women who are going through the perimenopause and menopause transition. And so I guide them through that process and help them get to a place where they can be empowered to really help themselves.

I’m a guide to friends, I’m a guide to clients as a conscious leader and a coach. So guiding is what I do as a practice, it seems.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (03:36.749)

I want to go back to your guide for women in midlife. How did you get into that particular space? And I’m always curious about the subject of menopause. And I said this to somebody recently: I think at this time in history, we’ve talked more about menopause and what it looks like and what it means for women and their partners and potentially their families than at any other time in history. I don’t remember my mom getting this much information when she was going through menopause that we have available to us today. So tell me a little bit about your work with women in transition.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (04:16.238)

Yeah, yeah, it’s really interesting and I’m glad that we’re having this conversation now. I went through menopause about eight years ago. I’m a breast cancer survivor, so I decided to have my ovaries removed as a prophylactic measure, and no one at the time told me that I would be thrust into menopause overnight. And I really had to figure things out on my own. I had all of the symptoms that a lot of women are managing themselves right now, but really abruptly and at more severity: the hot flashes, wondering whether or not I was crazy, wondering whether or not I, you know, like where did my brain go, wondering—having a short fuse, gaining weight.

I went through all of that myself, and I attributed it to the cancer treatments. And yes, that can happen. However, what they don’t tell you is that the cancer treatments can also put you into either a temporary or permanent menopausal state. And so from that place, I decided that in my practice, as I was working on myself and my own healing, I chose an integrative approach. I did all of the things that the physicians told me that I needed to do. I also added on meditation. I changed my diet to a Mediterranean diet. I did lots of mental health therapy.

I am also a certified Pilates instructor, so I did a lot of movement. And so I just incorporated all of those aspects and those pillars into my own healing. And that’s how I decided that I was going to start to change my practice and start to transition my practice to working with midlife women.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (06:40.950)

From the perspective of us just starting to talk about it now, that’s because there’s a lot—because 6,000 women a day in the United States will enter menopause, will have their final menstrual period. Six thousand women per day in the United States.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (06:54.346)

Six thousand a day? I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea that was… Wow!

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (06:58.840)

Per day. Okay. Okay. So that’s why we’re talking about it right now. That’s why, you know—and I’m a Gen Xer. So, you know, the Gen Xers are just very vocal about what we want and what we deserve. And so we are moving that needle forward. So that is why it’s everywhere. And it’s a multi‑billion‑dollar business.

But that all being said, there’s not a lot of people who have taken the time to educate themselves on this specific work. But I just decided that I was going to go down the rabbit hole, and I have gotten multiple certifications from different vantage points on menopause so I can provide a more comprehensive approach.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (07:55.652)

And can you give us your website? And I’ll put it on the podcast page. But tell us your website.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (07:58.242)

Sure.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (08:01.944)

Sure. It’s just drdeidra.com. Drdeidra.com. Yep, that’s it. So yeah, that’s how I got impassioned by it. That’s why we’re talking about it right now. That’s why, you know, right now as we’re speaking, last week was World Menopause Day. And right now the American Menopause Society is having its annual meeting, and since I’ve been a member there, the membership has exponentially grown over the last two or three years. So more and more practitioners are learning about it. And that’s a good thing, given the numbers. Yeah, sure.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (08:43.363)

Thank you. Thank you so much. And then just returning to your descriptors, you described yourself as a partner. Tell me about that.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (08:54.784)

Mm-hmm. Well, I’m a life partner as well, you know, so that’s kind of what I was thinking. I’m a life partner. I’ve been in a relationship with a wonderful man for the last 13 years. I’m a partner with my clients. I am, you know, I see myself as a partner/guide. I think that’s what I’ve had as one of my descriptors because they are the captains of their own destiny in their own life.

And I try to partner with them and give them strategies so that they can make the decisions for themselves on how they should proceed with their life. And in other ways, I feel like I’m starting to partner with other professionals. I’ve literally, this year, decided that I am going to seek out more collaborations. So I am really seeing the fruits of that come forward as well. I used to be one of those people who—I still am, you know, I can’t say that I turned it off overnight—but I have been trained and conditioned to be very independent, but have realized that that is not serving me at this point in my life as a midlife woman with so many things going on.

You have to learn how to partner to take some of that pressure off of yourself. And so that’s what I’m doing. I’m just modeling what I teach.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (10:31.261)

Tejra, thank you so much. I’d like our listeners to learn a little bit more about you. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends would be surprised to learn.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (10:48.294)

I didn’t realize that part—the friends would be surprised—because my friends know a lot about me. But the things that I already mentioned, that I started this career taping up sweaty feet on a high school football team. Another thing that’s really interesting about me is that I really like to cook. I love cooking and I love to—it’s a way that I can express myself outside of the work that I do. It’s a way that I can become much more creative. And I like to challenge myself in that way.

And then the third thing is that I do dream a lot about travel. I do, and I have traveled a good amount, but I have not traveled enough. And I’d love to be able—and when I say that I dream a lot about it, there’s still some sort of hesitation at this point. And people would be surprised to hear that from me because they see how much I travel. But I would like to travel the world. And I have not created the space to do that quite yet. But I’m looking forward to it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (12:06.615)

So two questions. What is your favorite thing to cook, and what is on your list of countries to visit?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (12:16.058)

So good. So I am—as I said, I follow more of a Mediterranean diet. So I cook a lot of vegetables and fish. One of the things that I really like to do is a white fish or halibut in a beautiful Spanish‑style tomato sauce. And I use that over cauliflower rice, and maybe a little side of avocado mash or something like that, or I’ll just slice some avocado with it and/or put some rapini or broccoli rabe with it. That’s kind of a standard meal for me.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (12:59.765)

Hmm, sounds good.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (13:01.006)

Yeah. And as far as the places I’d love to travel, well, there’s a couple of places on my list. The continent of Africa is one—I’d like to go to Egypt, I’d like to go to Kenya for safari, and maybe to visit Ghana, just because it is seemingly open to bringing African American people back to that particular country. So I’d love to see and explore that a little bit.

Then I’d love to go to—right now, what’s kind of competing for my attention is Portugal, and to see what Portugal might be like as a place where I could spend a little bit more time, not just to visit, but maybe spend a year or so there and just see what it would be like to live off‑continent for a second. Other places would include New Zealand. I’ve been to Australia, but not New Zealand. I think that’s about it right now. Those are the top of my list.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (14:12.516)

Wonderful, wonderful. And can you tell us about a time—sorry—can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you’re particularly proud of?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (14:28.386)

Yeah, I just launched my first online program for midlife women. And it is called “Rest and Renewal: The Who Is Peri? Rest and Renewal Program.” And it’s a four‑week program and we’ve got a nice group of powerful women in there. What I’m teaching is to help them find, again, more restorative rest, because at this time, sleep can be quite a bit of a challenge for women. And the women that I work with are those high‑achieving women who are in high positions in their organizations or they’re business owners, and they’re struggling with their sleep—their restorative sleep—and it’s impacting their lives, their personal lives, their professional lives in so many ways.

So it has been a dream for me to start a program in this online space, in a small group program, so that I can really have high touch points with women. So it’s been really important for me to do that, and I finally have started it. So I’m excited about that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (15:31.320)

Congratulations. I know that’s very exciting. Deidra, please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another’s life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (15:45.678)

Well, again, I go into—I’ve been in this profession because I wanted to make a difference in other people’s lives. But I have a recent example. I live in Los Angeles and I live not very far from the epicenter of the fires, the Los Angeles fires this year. And in fact, I would say over half of my clients live in the Pacific Palisades. So many of them have been displaced and they are living all over the city and even out of the city.

However, I do have one client who had been really struggling with her house being burned—yes, I’m just going to say her house being burned down. In my practice—my practice includes physical therapy, coaching, and Pilates pretty much—and I do that at the intersection that I have. So I have literally created a very small boutique space so that women can come and feel safe there.

And this particular woman was also dealing with a lot of personal challenge at the same time that she had lost her home, and she started to lose—I think she lost about four family members within a month. So it was really heavy for her. And the way that I created a space for her in my clinic was to really allow her—she was angry and I knew it, and it was showing up in her body. Her body was just not releasing the tension. Her body was in a cycle of pain, and I knew a lot of it had to do with the grief that she was feeling.

So as we were working together, I just allowed her to express her anger—her anger at the situation of what’s happening to her in her life, the anger of her losing her friends and family. She’s also of Jewish faith and heritage. She was also very angry about what’s happening in Gaza. So it was just really a space where I had to use my skill set to hold the space for her, and it was quite challenging.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (18:09.656)

We were able to extend her session for a little bit of time, and the next time I saw her, she just gave me a big hug and she thanked me for being able to hold that space for her so that she could start to—her body started to release the tension, because I had been working on her through manual measures and it just was not working. And I knew it had to do a lot with her mental and emotional state. And she just thanked me so much for how much of a change it made for her in her body and in her mental state.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (18:51.909)

Thank you. What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (19:01.134)

Well, I just leaned in on my training. I leaned in on my ability to really tap into what my intuition was telling me, which was: this woman is angry right now. And she’s typically very composed, but she’s going through a process that needs to be expressed. And I trusted my intuition on that. Other things that helped me get her back to a better set point are my skills as a coach, where I’m able to hold that space for my clients without jumping into the pool with them or having to fix anything for her—just allowing me to hold the space.

And it was pretty intense, because I should also back up and say, as I’m holding the space for her, her head is literally in my hands. She’s not sitting across the room from me in a chair. I’m literally having her head in my hands and I’m working on her body and all this anger is coming out. And so for me to be able to hold that space while protecting my own energy at the same time was really—it was pretty intense. But those skills helped me a lot.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (20:31.161)

Thank you for sharing your story. Deidra, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (20:46.796)

Hmm. There’s so many. I’ve already said quite a few. I think I could speak to something that just recently happened to me. And I just spoke about this in an open format, which is really interesting for me because I am such a private person. I would never really speak about this. But I decided that it would be impactful for other people.

And so I decided that I was going to just say something. Something that recently happened for me was that I have been, like I said, moving towards really helping midlife women, but my brick‑and‑mortar business also still had a few men in it. My last male client, who was also my first client, had been with me for 13 years and we’ve had a great relationship. I was seeing him several times a week and he was a big client for me. And he recently—his health status recently changed and he needed to get a different level of care than I could provide. And so almost overnight, that income was gone. Almost overnight that revenue was gone.

And I have had to scramble. I’ve had to start to shake the trees in a different way. And I’ve had to challenge myself in a different way. It’s kind of funny because I was still tethered to that particular part of my practice, knowing that I’m still going to be moving and have been moving my practice into midlife women exclusively. But there’s still part of me that’s saying, “But I want to still help the men too. I don’t want to exclude anybody.”

But the truth of the matter is that I’ve been really dreaming about this for quite a bit of time, and slowly and slowly and slowly I’ve been moving more and more towards that. But this particular experience let me know that the universe was like, okay, we need to move on.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (23:10.858)

Okay, we need to go to the vision that we have for you right now. And I don’t know that I would have cut that cord if it was not cut for me. And so this has happened—this has been maybe a month since this happened. But I have used the skills that I’ve learned for myself: self‑leadership; the skills that I’ve learned through self‑coaching; the skills that I’ve learned through meditation and being open to what the universe has to say and following the breadcrumbs. And I see that every day I am getting signs that I’m on the right path. So yeah, that’s it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:07.310)

And it is often difficult to step back from something—your bread‑and‑butter income—and you know that you’re moving on to something else, but you still want to be able to have the assurity of this original, perhaps steady, income.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (24:15.758)

Sure.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (24:30.328)

Sure, and I’m grateful that I have enough savings to get me through, but the point of it is that our brain does not want to—it’s safety. Our brain needs certainty. It’s the saber‑toothed tiger, it’s all the things. And again, I’m very grateful that I had savings that can sustain me for a while. However, it is really interesting to be in this space with the knowledge that I am still going down the right path. So yeah, thank you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (25:18.702)

You are listening to ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to ABWilson’s—excuse me. Welcome back to ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Dr. Deidra Manns. Deidra, we’ve talked about your practice. We’ve talked about your dream of travel. We have touched on the work that you’re doing with midlife women. What self‑care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (26:00.270)

There’s a few. Right now, again, my whole journey and my whole life for the last—I’ve been a cancer survivor for 13 years now—so the journey of that has really, you know, it’s my lifestyle right now, right? And I have to remember that it’s my lifestyle, and lots of people don’t behave and act this way.

I prioritize sleep, because getting that restorative sleep is important. And of course there are seasons when that is challenging for me, but I prioritize sleep. And that I know sounds a little bit cliché, but that actually can mean quite a bit for women. It is a practice to prioritize sleep. So I want to say that. I eat, again, mostly a Mediterranean diet. I really don’t eat that much red meat. I maybe eat red meat a few times a year. I don’t eat much red meat. I exercise daily. I do a meditation or some sort of mindfulness practice several times a week. So there’s a couple of days a week that I miss it, but several times a week I have some sort of mindfulness practice going to help to mitigate some of the stress.

Midlife women are really under quite a bit of stress, me included. So we’ve got stressors from world events. We’ve got stressors from our family. We’ve got internal stressors from our physiology literally changing. And so having that stress resilience is really important to me. And then dancing and laughing and playing with my dog and enjoying—I live in a part of Los Angeles that’s walkable, so I can go and enjoy several of the cultural events around. And I love live music, so yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (28:12.486)

Thank you for sharing. And how might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (28:27.832)

Hmm. I think the ripple effect that I’m creating for me and my family is really to have a way to have a scalable business where I can not be burning the candle at both ends so that I can be present for my partner and my beautiful dog, and I can do the things that help to strengthen that relationship.

For my community in general, I think me giving all of the workshops and the lectures that I give—sometimes I give those at no or low cost so that women can get an education or start to get an education. And for the world, as I’ve said, there’s 6,000 women in the US per day that are going to be hitting their final menstrual period. And that’s a lot of women.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (29:27.024)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (29:28.458)

And so my impact on that is, you know, it’s just a little bit of a ripple. It’s that critical mass of ripples that make a wave. So I am one of them and I really am proud of that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (29:52.324)

And I just wanted to also add congratulations on being a 13‑year cancer survivor. That is really, truly, truly, truly wonderful. So congratulations.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (29:59.768)

Thank you.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (30:07.982)

Thank you. And I just want to say something about that. There was a time where I would never have shared that with people. Now it’s just part of my story, right? But there was a time in my recovery and in my journey where I never would have said what I’m saying now in public. And that is a growth edge for me. And I think that the reason why I’m saying it right now is because I am very comfortable with who I am and who I’m becoming. And I know that my story is going to be helpful to other people.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (30:48.239)

And what guidance would you give to other women who may be where you were previously and who are facing maybe a cancer diagnosis? What did you learn at that time that you’ve been able to carry with you and that you can share with others?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (31:10.926)

There’s a couple of things that I still think are happening in the world of oncology or cancer medicine, and one is that there is not a comprehensive integrative approach. It’s happening a little bit more now. But people who are women—or anyone who’s going through cancer or a cancer diagnosis—it is shocking. It is a disease that has the potential to kill you. And so after you get through that part of the shock—for instance, breast cancer survivors—right now there’s about a 90 to 93 percent survival rate for breast cancer, breast cancer diagnosis. So what that means is you’re getting diagnosed, but there’s lots of treatment and you will likely survive. And early detection is key.

One of the things that happens with midlife women in general is that we don’t seek physicians or we don’t seek medical help, and that’s for several reasons. One of which is medical gaslighting—where you go to the doctor’s office and they don’t believe you or they minimize your concerns or they don’t know how to treat you. And another reason might be that life is too busy. I’ve got so many things going on that I can’t stop to see the doctor. So early detection is really key. So keeping up with your annual visits, making sure that—and this is just in general, not just for people who have a cancer diagnosis—going for those annual visits is really important. Getting your blood labs done is really important so that you know what your health status is.

Because there’s lots of talk in the world right now about menopause and the symptoms of menopause. But I don’t think that what’s being said enough—

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (33:30.132)

—is that perimenopause, which is that transition from being in your reproductive age and then going into menopause—and that perimenopause period can be somewhere between two and ten years—that is the gateway to an accelerated aging process for women. And I don’t think that that’s being said plainly enough.

Because in comparison to men, when men age it is very linear. It’s kind of like a downward slope, it’s very linear. But for women during that two‑to‑ten‑year timeframe, it’s very erratic. We are losing these sex hormones—“sex hormones” that have so many more functions around our entire body—that the loss of them is going to start the aging process a lot faster. And people don’t understand that part. So that’s related to heart disease. We see women starting to get high cholesterol and high blood pressure all of a sudden. We start to see that weight gain all of a sudden. We start to see bone loss. And this is something that’s so important, that bone loss part, because women can lose up to 20 percent of their bone mass during the perimenopause transition.

And right now, the medical standard is not to get a bone density scan until you’re 65. However, you can be going through this perimenopause transition between 35 and 45. And in that timeframe, you can lose up to 20 percent of your bone mass. That’s not being said enough. And so I think that a lot of the conversation is around the symptoms, a lot is around the way we feel, and that’s important. But I think women need to understand that part.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (35:40.149)

So Deidra, are you advocating for women, once they recognize that they’re going into perimenopause, to start getting bone density testing, to start getting—well, first of all, finding a doctor that will hear them around their symptoms, because I’ve heard those stories, we’ve all heard those stories, doctors dismissing them and saying, “Go do this, go do that, there’s nothing wrong with you,”

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (35:54.318)

One hundred percent. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (36:08.764)

when there clearly is, because you know your body, that they start demanding and advocating for themselves to get the type of testing that needs to be done in order to help—is it help slow the aging process or address the physical things that are going on?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (36:31.128)

Good question. It’s both, right? So regarding the advocacy, one of the things that I find is really interesting is that there’s a couple of different camps here. There are women who really advocate for themselves, right? And then there are some women who—because we are an interesting generation, this Gen X‑ers—we’re kind of like, we’re in between Gen Z and the baby boomers. So we still have some influence from the baby boomers where, you know, we go to a doctor and everything that they say is like they’re giving you some sort of blessing, right? Like, “Do this, you must do this.” And so sometimes we follow those directions. And then there’s another camp that’s like, no, no, we’re not following; I know my body, as you said. So there’s that.

From the perspective of advocacy, what I try to tell women is that you do know your body more than anyone else does. And to not base any decision about your health on someone else’s lack of knowledge and/or fear about anything. Okay. Why do I say that? Because only about 20 percent—less than 20 percent—I even want to say 8 percent; I don’t know the exact number, but less than 8 percent of primary care physicians know anything about menopause care. Less than 30 percent of OB‑GYN physicians know anything about menopause care. Okay. This is a travesty—20 years of lack of knowledge and education in the medical field is what we’re dealing with right now.

So when women go to doctors and they say, “It’s just this,” it’s because they don’t have a knowledge base or they’re afraid. So if you’re not getting the answers that you want, here in the United States we have the Menopause Society. On their website, you can go to “Find a Practitioner,” and that’s where you can find someone who has been educated on menopause care. And you can also find someone who has passed their examination—the Menopause Society’s examination—and knows how to prescribe medications and potentially hormonal therapies for you.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (39:14.134)

Now, that being said, I think that’s the best place to start. I don’t want to go any further. That’s a really great resource. I have served on their education committee for the last two years. And so I think that’s a great resource for women. But yes, regarding the bone density scan, I literally had a woman who came to me and she was in her early fifties—50, yeah—and she had a small fracture in her pelvis from falling off a horse. And you would think that’s no big deal; it would potentially seem reasonable that someone would fracture their pelvis. However, her physical profile led me to believe that she might have a bone density issue.

I connected with her physician and I said, “I think she has a bone density issue.” She went to a different physician who said, “No, we’re not going to do a bone density scan. You’re fine.” I talked to her other primary care physician and I said, “I think she needs one.” And sure enough, she has osteoporosis at 51.

So it’s really important for women to educate themselves, to be empowered, and to go to different places—to fire your doctor if you need to. It’s okay to fire your doctor if you’re not getting the care that you need.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (40:59.249)

Yeah, and I’m sure you have as well heard the horror stories of women who have had to go from doctor to doctor until somebody could hear them and hear what their real concerns were and dig deeper in order to find out what the issues are. And it’s not all in your head or you’re just imagining it. They are real things that need to be addressed that nobody’s addressed.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (41:27.158)

Indeed. And it’s very frustrating for women. It almost is—I don’t know, I want to say debilitating for some women. It can really stymie you. It can make you think that you’re crazy. It really can. But you know that there’s something that is going on because there are clear differences between where you were in your late twenties, early thirties, to your body changing in perimenopause until once you reach menopause—it’s a different body. So your body is going through these different stages and nobody’s talking about it. They talk about puberty and pregnancy, but they don’t talk about anything else.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (42:18.525)

Thank you, Deidra. Thank you for—and I’m sure you’ve helped many just with this conversation. No, this is important. This is important. And something I would say most—I would say all, but definitely most—women will have some symptom of perimenopause and menopause as they grow. And I also want to say—

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (42:23.778)

Yeah, thank you for letting me go on the riff. I’m sorry. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (42:49.051)

It doesn’t stop when you get into menopause.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (42:52.366)

One hundred percent. You’re right. It does not. And I love the fact that you said that. It does not stop because the body is aging. The body is aging.

And this is where a lot of women—and to go back to your point that some women don’t have as many symptoms—there’s like 20 to 25 percent of women who don’t have serious or any symptoms at all in their process. But that does not mean that their body isn’t aging. Their body is still aging, right? So it’s important for women on that other side—you’re right, it does not stop. There’s some research that some women can have hot flashes for up to 20 years after. There’s lots of it.

And it also can be cultural and sociocultural. Some women, like African American women, have been found to go through perimenopause earlier, have more intense symptoms, and be in the process for a longer period of time in comparison to their white counterparts. So there are differences in cultural expectations and also in cultural and sociocultural responses to menopause. And racial—I have to say it that way because the facts are out there.

The SWAN study—it’s part of the SWAN study. It’s called the Study of Women Across the Nation. It was a huge study that was done, and part of their findings was that there’s different symptomatology that shows up with different races in different cultures.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (44:46.730)

Deidra, thank you. Thank you for sharing that information. This is really important. And for the women who are listening, I’m going to encourage you to, especially if you are in perimenopause or even as you approach it, start to learn or continue to learn for yourself, understand your body. Because I know I’ve been comparing symptoms with different friends.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (44:48.736)

Yeah, yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (45:14.602)

And everybody has something different, right? And for me, I knew what triggered my hot flashes. Because I would test them, like, okay, what happens if I do this, if I do that? And then within four or five minutes I was like, okay, that I know has triggered it. And I would have to make decisions. Am I going to—one of them was coffee. And I knew that. The other one was red wine. I knew that.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (45:37.665)

Ooo.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (45:41.870)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (45:42.603)

And I had to make decisions. Do I suffer through the hot flashes while I’m downing my morning coffee, or do I eliminate coffee from my diet? I will say I continued to drink coffee. And yeah, yeah.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (45:47.118)

We have to make those decisions, right? But what’s really great about what you said is that you took the moment to become aware and find what your triggers are, because a lot of women feel like things are randomly happening to them. And sometimes they are. Sometimes a hot flash is just randomly coming on. But hot flashes are related to red wine. They are related to sugar. They are related to lack of sleep and higher stress. They are related to those things, right?

So if women decide—and that’s what I guide women on, right? It’s like, how do we create that awareness? How do you become your—I call it self‑leadership. How do you lead yourself through this process? Don’t give your power away. You’re very powerful. I am just guiding you. I’m just giving you information so that you can then take the steps. I give you information, I give you solutions, I give you strategies. It’s a choose‑your‑own‑adventure situation, right? So you decided, okay, coffee stays in my life. And red wine might stay in your life too. That’s fine. But as long as you know what you’re dealing with, then that’s a conscious decision that you’ve made for yourself.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (47:18.982)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And in that vein, I also knew how to reduce some of my symptoms, especially the hot flashes. And for me, it was vigorous walking in the morning. As long as I could sweat in the morning, I was pretty much stable throughout the day, but I needed to get that exercise in. Otherwise, I knew I’d be—things would—

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (47:30.847)

Hmm.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (47:42.926)

I love that you said that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (47:48.426)

triggering the hot flashes more so than if I didn’t exercise.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (47:56.376)

There are several things that you are doing with that experience every morning. First of all, you’re getting sunlight in your eyes. I hope you’re not going out there—if you have sunglasses on, I would encourage you to take your sunglasses off for at least 15 minutes of that walk, especially in the morning, because that’s what’s going to help to set your circadian rhythm. So I would say if you’re out on the walk in the morning, take your sunglasses off so you can get the sunlight in your eyes. That’s the first thing. And then you’re out in nature.

Our bodies want to be out in nature. They want to commune with nature. So let’s do that, right? And now you’re also walking, so you’re getting your heart rate up. You’re starting to use your muscles, and the muscles start to use blood sugar—they use the sugar in your blood to function. So if there’s been sugar in the blood, it’s going to help to pull that sugar out and use it in your muscles to function. And that’s going to also decrease your hot flashes.

So you’re getting your heart rate up, you’re using your muscles, you’re outside, you’re getting oxytocin, you’re setting your circadian rhythm. You are sweating, because now when you’re sweating, it also triggers those centers in your brain that are in charge of temperature regulation to say, “I can sweat and then calm down. I can sweat and cool off. I can sweat.” And so it gets used to doing that. So lots of kudos to you for that. Just a very powerful practice every morning is walking outside.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (49:27.639)

Thank you. And I learned that from a friend of mine, actually. She said, well, just go walking in the mornings because it helped her. And I was like, okay, let me try it. And I felt a difference throughout the day. So I said, okay, I will continue to do it because it made a difference for my body and how my body was responding at this time in my life.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (49:51.598)

And you probably think more clearly as well, right? Because the oxygen is going to your brain. The heart is producing lots of energy and the oxygen’s coming to your brain and it’s clearing out the fog. So it’s really—yeah, it’s powerful. Just walking outside. It’s one of the things that I tell my clients to do all the time.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (50:10.283)

Okay, Deidra, thank you. Thank you, thank you. And so just switching gears a little, what exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (50:32.404)

I see, like I said earlier, that I’m doing a lot more collaboration. And I have been talking to some people who I’m really excited about potentially collaborating with and still being very open to saying yes to a lot of things. I’m in a “yes” season of my life right now because I’m trying something new and I’m building something new. Even though I’ve been practicing in my brick‑and‑mortar, now going digital and going global is really a vision that I have.

And so I can see myself really collaborating in summits, retreats, speaking. I also do conferences. I’ve done a lot of speaking engagements at Pilates conferences. And so I can see myself taking that into speaking engagements and taking it into larger organizations and really teaching about menopause care and helping women all over the world. Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (51:40.437)

Thank you. What brings you joy?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (51:44.898)

Gosh, I think I said—like you said earlier, walking. I love walking outside. It’s one of my favorite things to do. And I live in an area—I live in Santa Monica; well, I live just outside of Santa Monica in Los Angeles. So I live maybe about no more than 10 minutes from what I call the end of the world, the Pacific Ocean. And I can just go out there at any time and really commune with nature and the ocean, and that’s one of my favorite things to do.

Being with my dog and my partner are great things to do. I love live music. I love going to art shows. Those are all things that bring me a lot of joy. And my family brings me joy. I mean, you know, family can be interesting, but I do like being with my family as well.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (52:44.790)

Thank you. And we’re nearing the end of this really wonderful conversation. What book recommendations do you have? It can be a book that you’ve read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (53:01.314)

Yeah. There are two recommendations that I have right now. A lot of the reading that I do is work reading, but it is applicable to the general listener. “The New Menopause” by Mary Claire Haver—I’ve read that several times. I think it came out earlier this year. And I like it as a nice way—it’s a nice primer for people to understand what’s happening to their bodies.

And then right now I’m reading a book on nervous system regulation and it’s called “The Vagus Nerve Reset Decoded.” That’s by Anna Leota. And it’s really great because the vagus nerve is like a superhighway from our brain to the rest of our body. It is part of our stress response system and it actually puts the brakes on our stress response system. So it’s a really great way to learn some tools to help you get more centered and more balanced. And it’s for the general reader. Both of these books are for the general reader.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (54:21.110)

Thank you. And Deidra, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (54:32.054)

I’ll just say that right now I feel like the world is in a big transition. I just think we are in a transition right now. And to know that when you’re in a transition, like I said earlier in this interview, there’s a drive to hold on to what we know to be true for us—the past.

However, there’s a vision, there’s a purpose, there is a greater “yet to be” for this world, and we are in the middle. We’re in the liminal space right now. So we all want certainty. My message is to find certainty in the things that you know that you can control and to let those other things that you can’t control go as much as you can.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (55:50.871)

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the wisdom that you have shared. And I want to share some of the appreciation nuggets that I am taking from our conversation. The most recent, what you just said—find certainty in the things you can control. And I think that message is for me specifically and personally, because I needed to hear that. So thank you.

You also said around menopause, “choose your own adventure.” I thought that was just a very poignant piece of advice. And you also said—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:49.932)

—you were talking about ripples and a critical mass of ripples that create a wave. And I was just trying to make sure I could read my handwriting there.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (57:00.878)

Yeah, I know that. Chicken scratch.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (57:05.898)

And just the guidance that you’ve given to women about understanding their bodies and that they know their bodies more than anybody else, and don’t base their medical decisions on guidance given by somebody that doesn’t know, hasn’t taken the time to understand who they are and what they’re going through.

And so Deidra, thank you. Thank you for your guidance. Thank you for your knowledge. Thank you for your wisdom. I appreciate you taking the time to join me on ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and wisdom of people you may know. Dr. Deidra Manns, thank you so much.

Dr. Deidra Manns, DPT (57:57.880)

Thank you for having me. It was such fun.