S2 Ep48. Empowering Change: Lessons from Human Rights Advocate Isha Dyfan Davies

In this deeply inspiring episode of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, host Aderonke Bademosi Wilson welcomes Isha Dyfan Davies, a disciplined, determined and open-minded expert in human rights and advocacy. Isha shares her extraordinary life journey starting from a challenging childhood in Sierra Leone to becoming a distinguished human rights lawyer and United Nations advisor. 

She reflects on growing up amidst personal loss, perseverance during a decade-long war and immigrating to the United States. Isha's story reveals the power of determination, discipline and open-mindedness in overcoming obstacles and making a difference on the national and global stage.

Listeners will learn about Isha’s impactful work on women, peace and security, her role in shaping international human rights policies, and her compassionate leadership, including supporting colleagues through difficult times. 

She also discusses her lifelong passion for health, spirituality through Bible study and the joy she finds in family and mentorship. With 40+ years of experience, Isha offers wisdom on finding purpose later in life and embracing ongoing growth. This episode is an invitation to reflect on resilience and the lifelong search for meaning.

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Transcript

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:01.797)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I’m Aderonke Bademosi Wilson. My guest on today’s show is Isha Dyfan-Davies. She is disciplined, determined, open-minded. Isha, welcome to the show.

Isha L. Davies (00:39.618)

Thank you very much for having me, Aderonke.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:43.331)

And so I like to start with your descriptor, and I’m gonna go with the second one first, determined. What does that look like? What does that feel like for you?

Isha L. Davies (00:55.640)

Well, it comes from, I think, I was the only child of my mother, and she died when I was seven days old. And I was brought up by two grandparents until I was about five and moved from my mother’s side of the family to my father’s side of the family.

And I was the fourth of eight children of my father. And so I was brought up by my aunt, who is my father’s sister, and she was married to a doctor. And for people who would think that that could be an obstacle in terms of their upbringing and their future, for me,

it was being the fourth of eight children with my father and my stepmother did not hold me back in anything. And because I was with my aunt whom I call my mother and my uncle, I was very determined in the household that I would take advantage of the opportunities.

I listened to my parents. When they say, go to school, I’ll go. Go to university, I’ll go. Everything, I listened, determined to be someone. And when I look back, my grandparents will say, she has become what we intended her to be. So I thought that must have come from the fact that I was a very determined child.

And even professionally, during the war, we had a 10-year war in Sierra Leone, and I lost everything, investment in the legal practice. I came to America with nothing, but I then became someone, somebody. My profession grew from just being a lawyer into an expert in human rights and serving

in both national organizations, international organizations, and achieving some of the highest positions that I really never dreamed of. And I thought that it was just coming from that kind of background that when you fall, you should raise yourself up. You always raise yourself up. And then now, you know, I got married and

I had two biological children, but we brought up, my husband and I, three others, and they’re all professionals. We were determined that even being in America, we would bring them up as Sierra Leoneans, as Africans, and make sure that they’re successful. So I think that’s where I got the word “determination” from, that we always keep pushing. You never let things deter you from

making something of yourself.

And on the second one, I think you might want to move to the second one. Do you want to move to the second one or do you want to move to the second? I think discipline comes from the fact that I’ve always felt that I went to boarding school. And so the discipline comes from that. In boarding school, everything is timed, everything that you do

is according to the school rules, and I never wanted to go against school rules and get punished. So I was always determined to keep to my school rules. And then even at work, from the thinking of being a lawyer, I always felt, why would you want to breach any rules? Why would you want to do that? Even if I don’t believe in the rules, I’d rather

advocate to change them, but I always want to be disciplined and follow the rules of that organization and make sure others do so. And when I was in leadership, I would insist that my colleagues and others see that if you just follow rules and be disciplined about work, you should be fine. And that doesn’t stop you from opposing them, but you just follow them until they change.

So I think that kind of upbringing, and then maybe lastly, discipline comes from the fact that I’m an exercise enthusiast. I’m very disciplined about my exercise, what I eat, how I rest, and all of those things. And my children and even my friends’ children think, my God, Auntie, you’re so disciplined. If I say I’m not eating this food

because it’s not good for me, I will keep to that. If I say I’m only having one drink, alcohol drink, I’ll keep to my one alcohol drink. And it all comes from growing up with a nurse and a doctor and then going to boarding school and then eventually growing up with that kind of discipline. I make my bed every day. My children don’t want to do that.

So little things like that make me feel that I’m a disciplined person. And I’ve grown up like that. I mean, keeping the house clean first from a health perspective, but just habit. I’m following habits. And maybe the third one, which is open-mindedness, is the fact that as a lawyer and maybe as a human rights practitioner also

knowing that you should not discriminate against others. You should always be flexible in the way you see things. And so I’ve grown up waiting, watching, listening, before I make up my mind about things. And I am flexible in seeing different perspectives and listening.

And I think it’s because, you know, in practice, in legal practice, one of the things is that you always listen to both sides and weigh the eventualities. When preparing for your case, think about, you know, what could the other side be thinking? Open your mind to listening, not making judgments about other people’s children. You know, be open-minded. You don’t know what their circumstances might be.

So when they meet, they play, they come to your house, you don’t say, I don’t want you to play with that person unless you know that that person is not good for the way that your children might be brought up. And then just take the chance to see if you can impart some values with other people’s children. So in all of that, when I look back now, and perhaps this podcast

preparing for it has also made me think a little bit more about these things. So I came up with “determined” and “open-minded” based on just looking back at my life and wondering, at age 70, surely I could come up with something, with those descriptors not being things that are used by others. They may well have been used by others, but it has sort of strengthened the way I think about who I am today.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (09:08.423)

Thank you. And you said you moved to the United States. How long have you been living in the U.S.? And how did the war in Sierra Leone impact you?

Isha L. Davies (09:25.164)

Well, I came to the U.S. in 1997 to live, but I’ve always visited. My husband studied here. So when we met, I would visit him when he was studying while I was practicing at home. So I knew America. Even when I was studying in England, I visited America for the first time in 1985.

And so when my husband came to study, at the time we were going out, I would visit him. And the war started in 1991 in Sierra Leone. And I was practicing then. I had a successful practice. I had gone home in 1986. But the war became very serious by 1995. And by 1997, I left home because

I was an activist during the war, trying to bring peace, and that meant I was targeted by the opposition. And I felt I couldn’t live in Sierra Leone and I left and immigrated to the U.S. where my husband was at the time. And so I was practicing; it was an all-women’s legal practice. I was practicing.

I was the second in line in my practice and our building, which we had bought, our books, all of our resources were burnt down. And so we lost practice. And even though my senior colleague went back home and continued with the business, I didn’t go back. I decided that I would stay in America

as a refugee and eventually become a permanent resident and sort of start working here and see what I could do with the education and the experience I had already acquired over 10 years.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (11:30.447)

And what were some of the work you did in the United States once you moved?

Isha L. Davies (11:38.947)

Go on.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (11:39.847)

And I was going to say, I’m assuming you stayed in law. What aspect of law did you pursue after that?

Isha L. Davies (11:50.666)

My goodness, I did remain in law, but not as a practitioner. I used my legal knowledge and my advocacy skills. I first did a lot of voluntary work with non-governmental organizations. I had had a lot of experience with the conflict at home and the peace process, the activism,

how women came together to bring about peace. So I had that knowledge. And when I came to my organization in the U.S. and said, listen, I’d like to volunteer and to inform the public, the international community, about what women did and how successful we were, they embraced everything. And so I became part of

the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom in New York and worked on women, peace, and security issues in consultative status with the United Nations. And that’s how I started my career in the U.S. So I stayed and worked for non-governmental organizations for seven years, just doing women, peace, and security. Of course,

the theoretical part of that, of course, is human rights. So I did that for seven years. And when we were successful in establishing a resolution on women, peace, and security in the year 2000, I was offered a position in the UN. I had, of course, spoken about the war in Sierra Leone.

I had been one of the 12 people who addressed the Security Council in an Arria-formula, which is one of the ways you try to convince and advocate on your thematic issue with the Security Council member states. And so I had a track record of the kind of research advocacy work that I had done for seven years, and I was offered this job

in the field; at the time it was Liberia in 2004. So that’s how I survived, as it were, without actually re-studying law in America and practicing law in America. So I utilized the skills that I already had. It was a different area of work, because at home I was doing criminal law, civil practice. It was nothing that

had set me up for what I was doing. But because I lived during the war and was active during the war, I could use that with my advocacy skills to work with non-governmental organizations pursuing similar work in the international community.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (15:03.431)

Thank you so much for sharing your work, first of all, for advocating and for the, I’m sure, the difference that you made for many, for the countries that you worked with. And so I’m just gonna bring us back to our questions and start with, please share three interesting things about yourself

that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Isha L. Davies (15:37.278)

Okay, I think the first should be I was born on a farm in a village in eastern Sierra Leone in Kenema and of Moroccan descent.

A lot of people will not know that about me. So my mother’s side grew cocoa and coffee. And in 1955, they lived in the cocoa farm, and that’s where I was born. I went there after I left when I was about two years old. I went back there in the cocoa farm. My parents, when I was about to leave to go to the UK to study, said, we have to go back

because I had promised that I would take you back when you grew up. So we went back to that village and we met one of the old men who convinced my grandmother to let me go to my father’s side because he said, they’re taking her to go and study, to go to school, to leave this life behind, but she would come back.

Because of that, my mother said, we have to go back because we don’t know if you’re going to come back here. So I promised them I’ll take you. And so she took me back and I met that old man and was delighted to say that you are the one who caused me to go to school, go to university, and now I’m going to the UK to study law. It was a 360, I thought.

And maybe the second part of it, I’ve already mentioned that I’m a health freak from school days. I was a very chubby child growing up, or so I felt anyway. And so I was very sporty. I was always trying to be slim like the other kids. And that sort of idea made me, even at secondary school, I would do all kinds of sports

for my house. I don’t know if you have those traditions of sports in the house. And even at university, I played volleyball. You cannot imagine, I’m only 4'11", I played volleyball. And I even played volleyball for university games, which were held, one year it was held in Ghana and I was in the team. And when I went to study in England, I would run from six to seven before I’d go to university every day.

And you’re talking about discipline, even away in the winter, in the cold, I would insist that I should do my run and do that. And now that I’m a little older, even when I was away from here, I mean, I worked in Liberia, Sudan, Darfur, I worked in Geneva,

I would continue with my running and my exercise and trying to eat healthy, to be slim. But now I know more, that eating, exercising, slimming is also healing. And I have continued from a different perspective. I’m now not trying to be slim and nice, but rather to be healthy and grow old healthy.

So that’s another thing. I mean, all my nieces and nephews call me a health freak. And maybe the third thing is that I like to study the Bible. I not only pray, but I study the Bible intensely. I have a study Bible. I’ve had study Bibles for women. I’ve used them. I got a new study Bible now that was introduced to me.

But because I went to a Catholic school, even though I was born a Muslim, I went to Christian schools and did all the Christian songs and did Bible study at school and did Bible study at university. And so I kept studying, reading, listening to—now I listen to a lot of podcasts—pastors,

academics. I continuously study the Bible to learn about Christianity because, especially since 1989 when I became one, I just thought that it was not just going to church and praying by yourself, but knowing what you’re praying about because I believe that it is not just believing in God and Jesus and everything, but the path

to knowing Him is about studying the Word. And so I have been very ardent at that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (20:57.487)

Have you thought about becoming a pastor, becoming a minister?

Isha L. Davies (20:58.030)

Good.

Isha L. Davies (21:01.646)

Oh no. No, I haven’t. And I’ve seen a lot of my school friends who have become pastors. No, I think I just want it for myself and as guidance to my children about living a good life. If you’re a Christian, so that I’m not speaking from—I’m speaking from knowledge and experience, rather than just from what I hear other people say. And I think

doing that has made me feel that I’ve gone beyond just believing as someone who was baptized and confirmed and goes to church. I actually do believe. I’ve not reached knowing yet, but I think you need the Spirit, right? You need the Spirit for that. And I’m looking for it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (21:55.247)

Hmm. Isha, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. Can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you’re particularly proud of?

Isha L. Davies (22:07.264)

Yes, I have just finished six years of being an independent expert on human rights for a country, a country of concern, an African country in conflict, and that is seeking to develop and seeking to meet its human rights obligations. So I did this work pro bono for the United Nations system,

because I’m retired. I retired in 2017 from the UN and I retired from Amnesty in 2019 and I took this on in 2020. And the role is six years of assisting the government, in consultation with other stakeholders, to fulfill their human rights obligations. And the reason why I feel particularly successful at this is that

it’s just my approach to how I advised and advocated with the government to do that. I set myself and I worked very closely together with them. And my approach was to cajole, to advocate, to give examples. I mean, and Sierra Leone is a good example of that as well. So I was sort of in a place where I could refer to Sierra Leone as an example.

I didn’t want to shame a country, but rather to show them that the path to human rights was a path to development and let them see that that’s possible. And so we built a program of work and it was a minimum program of work, but every year I would visit and visit other countries around it

to gather information, have an annual report on how we were doing. And I made it not only their work, but also our work. That you, the country, and I are working on this to fulfill it. So it’s not about me being successful, but it’s about us. So I think that helped reduce their resistance, because they resisted, as you know. I mean, African and other

non-Western countries are always opposed to human rights. They see it as Western domination and undermining country sovereignty. So approaching it not to name and shame them, but rather to see that there are other examples where human rights has helped in terms of helping the country to invite investors, to develop, and to

secure support from the United Nations is one way that they can fulfill these obligations. And so after six years, the mandate—they call it a mandate within the system—the mandate was terminated, on the understanding that my mandate was terminated and the government was able to shift from my support to the Office of the High Commissioner’s support,

which was indicating that even though the benchmarks and indicators we had set ourselves had not been completed, nevertheless, the mandate could be terminated and the remaining benchmarks and indicators could now be in the hands of the Office of the High Commissioner for them to be completed. And, you know, I received a lot of

commendations and recommendations from the country and from my colleagues that we were able to get to that. This mandate had been going on for 30 years with this particular country and after six years of my work with them, we were able to at least move the, what would I say, move the country a little bit closer to fulfilling their

obligations on human rights.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (26:32.806)

Thank you. And so you must be extremely proud and are you continuing to watch from afar the progress that they’re making?

Isha L. Davies (26:43.786)

Yes, yes. I mean, I have colleagues still in the business and the staff that I was working with will remain on the mandate with the High Commissioner’s Office. And so I have access to know what they’re doing. And I still get information from social media about how they’re getting on. And I hope that they will be stabilized and

will see the way forward. I’m very hopeful. I’m very hopeful. It’s not an easy country because they have terrorism, they have right-wing religious pushback on human rights. So it’s not very easy for them to balance. But so far, so good.

And they’ve been able to demonstrate that they’re able to, because they’ve been there now sitting in the Security Council. They’ve been able to get themselves on regional organizations which they were not on before. Then there’s a lot of progress that they’ve made. And even with legislation within their country, they’ve managed to pass legislation that supports human rights. There are, you know,

issues like sexual violence, which is one of those areas that’s very difficult for governments to be able to pass laws on. But, you know, they’re discussing, they want to pursue child rights, they want to pursue stopping sexual violence and have the requisite legal frameworks in place. I think for the first time they had a

National Conference on Human Rights. And I thought that was such a big deal. Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (28:50.919)

So I’d like to move to our next question. Please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another’s life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Isha L. Davies (29:03.661)

I am, in the UN I retired as a director. And when I was maybe an advisor, I had a huge team, about 150 people in five locations. And at my headquarters office, I had a colleague

whom I had recruited as a doctor to provide medical opinion on how we approach sexual violence. And this lady was very good at her work. I mean, she was a medical doctor and it helped the office to see how to give a different perspective, not just the legal perspective of this crime,

but a medical perspective as well, and how to pursue both. So one day she approached me and said her son had been diagnosed with cancer. And I said, yes, but what do you want us to do? Then she said, this teenager is now in New York where the diagnosis was made, and I would like to move

to work in New York so that I can take care of him and I can maintain my insurance and be able to look after this boy. Now, we are working in Africa. To move a staff member to New York to work has financial implications for the organization. There wasn’t a rule that allowed you to just keep moving around. If you’re

recruited for one place, you stay there, you work, unless you are recruited for another office. So how was I going to assist this lady for a serious disease like this? How was I going to help? And that’s where I, being nice to colleagues, understanding everybody’s role in an organization, is very important.

So I used favors that I had granted to others and raised this issue with personnel, and personnel said, no, you can’t do that because it’s very expensive and so on and so forth. If she wants to take time off, we can give her time off. But what she wanted was to actually be working so that she’s able to look after her child.

And I said, I’m going to pursue this and make sure that she’s able to go and work from there. Because, after all, she’s still giving her experience. She’s still working. She’s willing to work. So that’s where my advocacy skills came in. Even though there was no rule, I worked with my colleagues in the personnel department. I worked with people I knew from New York. And we were able to

make a case. I basically said, there is a case here. It’s not that this person doesn’t want to work, and already she has made a good contribution to the organization. You don’t want someone like this to leave the organization. And I used my favors and it took a while to really get that to be approved, but it was eventually approved.

And she was able to work from New York, get the operation that her son needed, and the son got better. And she came back to where we were in Africa to continue working. And today, that boy is a chef and works in Switzerland.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (33:15.335)

Wonderful story. Absolutely wonderful story. And so I just want to go back to your work at the UN. And if anybody is interested in doing the kind of work or advocacy that you’ve done in the past, how do you get to work at the UN? It seems to me like one of those organizations that’s just, you

know, huge and touches so many, most countries, right? And it has had staying power over the years. How do you get to work at the UN like a regular person? Do you have to be extraordinary or can you apply for a job? What does that look like?

Isha L. Davies (34:03.158)

My goodness.

Isha L. Davies (34:10.465)

Wow, you don’t have to be extraordinary. The requirement is just having a master’s degree in an area of concern that the United Nations deals with. And yes, I agree that this is a huge bureaucracy, but there are people who work for the UN from a cleaner to the Secretary-General and everything in between. It’s like going into a house and finding that there are 50 rooms, or a hotel,

because you can pigeonhole yourself in wherever your skill sets are required. Of course, it’s very difficult because it’s open to the whole world. So if I’m a lawyer and there are thousands of lawyers all over the world, how would I, I mean, where would I be on the rung of the stairs to be able to work for the UN as a lawyer? So yes, it is,

from that perspective, it looks as if it’s impossible, but they have so many ways you can work. You can start as a volunteer. Most young people start as a volunteer. There is a program for young people. They call it Young Professionals Program. And it has a quota in every country. So if you’re in your country and your quota is not filled,

you can apply, and most times African countries’ quotas are not filled. We don’t think about it usually. So there’s that quota system. But also, if you have done certain research or a piece of work that is of high concern to the UN, you can apply to jobs that are advertised and

usually they will require you have some experience because there isn’t much time to be trained. So when I started at the UN, I started as a—you know, there’s P1 to P5 and then director level and then Assistant Secretary-Generals and all of that. But I started as a P3. I had the experience of having been a practicing lawyer, experience of

working on women, peace and security, and human rights issues. And already I was in a non-governmental organization that had consultative status with the UN. So I had already built that rapport with the organization. People knew my work, my research, my advocacy, and I had had successes, for example, the women, peace and security resolution. So when something came up that really

met my profile, it was not so difficult to compete, because you have to compete at every level. Even if you are going to be promoted—let’s say I’m an advisor, I want to be a director—I have to take an exam. Yes, you have to take an exam, you have to be interviewed before you can get that post. So it

And because I was at the level of an advisor and a director, I would have 150 applications for one role. And it would be from all over the world. So you can just imagine, if I have to find that one person from those applications, how difficult it is. But of course, there are so many other

issues you would look for. How would this person work with the team? How does their experience fit in with the team that you have? What are the outcomes that you want? So would this person be able to assist the team in achieving that outcome? So there are various things that you look at. Of course, you too want to be successful when you recruit someone, that they’re going to be an asset to your

work. In terms of the basics, everybody will have the basic, but there are other issues that you might have to look at once you have a shortlist, to ensure that you have someone that will really support the work that you want to achieve as a leader.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (38:50.951)

Thank you. And so just to touch back on the question of success—that you are, sorry, making a difference in another’s life. What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Isha L. Davies (39:11.058)

I think compassion was one. I could feel as a mother what she would be going through if they had said one of my children had cancer at that age. I think I would do everything and anything to look after them. So I could feel for her why she was pushing to do that. I mean, imagine I was losing a doctor in my team

if she were to move, and somebody else would have to push for her in their own team. But she remained and worked even from afar. And then I think it’s just my advocacy skills, just not to stop. This is what you’re taught as a lawyer. If you have a good case, pursue it. And I thought we had a good case. So I felt that

even though it was difficult and challenging, I believed that we would succeed eventually. It was a strange way of doing it. And I didn’t think taking time off would benefit my team or the organization.

Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (40:31.207)

Can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Isha L. Davies (40:41.002)

Wow, that’s a difficult one. I recall that when I became an advisor and moved from implementing programs in the field with governments, in Africa and in other places, you have a policy, you have a program of work, and you go about finalizing it.

That’s part of the practice that I’m used to as a lawyer. But when I got recruited to be the advisor on women, peace and security and a human rights advisor in the Office of the High Commissioner in Geneva, it was a different kind of work. It was developing policies and laws and

programs to be implemented in the field. So it was a different type of work and it was very challenging. And my very first policy that I was asked to build with my team was for the whole of the organization. And I hadn’t done that particular type of policy for the whole of the organization. I’d done it incrementally for small organizations,

but not for a huge organization. And so, of course, I relied a lot on the team and I relied on just reading what had happened. You go into a new organization and you start to read about them and what work they do. So you do that. Then, so I took on this role and my boss was really very helpful and said, you know, let’s do this. I think we can do it now.

So we developed some ideas and my boss said to me, well, I think we should go and present these initial ideas to management. Hmm. I had just joined, maybe a couple of months. I was just settling in, knowing the team, knowing, you know, who’s there, what do they do, and so on and so forth. But I felt, you know, she has confidence and she’s a senior and all of that. So let’s go and share.

So we went to management and I was the advisor, so I presented what we had come up with as a team and it seemed as if hell opened.

Everybody—let’s say there were 20 senior people sitting around the dais. It was the High Commissioner, the Deputy High Commissioner, the D-2s, the D-1s, the this, the that. There I was as a P-5 now presenting. My boss is sitting there as a D-1. And the questions, I felt as if I was in the Court of Appeal. I’ve served in the Court of Appeal. I’ve

presented in the Supreme Court in my country, and I felt, but this barrage was not like, can you explain the law on this? Should we give you time to read that case? It was not something like that. It was like, this is not what we’re looking for. Can you just—again. I was like, what? I was so taken aback. This was the first time I was

presenting. I took the questions down. I came with a colleague of mine, she took questions down. And I said, I think we may need to go back to the drawing board on this. I see that there are many concerns from different colleagues. I really appreciate what you’re saying, and I think, you know, we will come in a month or two to respond to these and do a redraft.

And that’s how we left. We came back, you breathe.

Absolute failure.

And I wondered what happened and then I thought to myself, you haven’t done three things. You haven’t listened to your instinct.

You don’t know your environment well; you ought not to have agreed to go to management.

Because your instincts—and I felt that, yes, you were listening to your ego. You felt, now you’re P-5, you could do this. And I was wrong. But I tell you, that prepared me. When I came the second time, my goodness, they knew why they recruited me. Because not only did I go to each and every officer who made

a comment to find out what the comment was about, how they want to see it, what should be done, why they were doing it. Came back to my colleagues and said, what has happened to this team? What has happened to this office, to this particular section? And they gave me the background. It was nothing about me. It was about the baggage of the section.

And it taught me a lesson that you should never, never not listen to your instinct. Never let your ego override your instinct because it’s the Spirit that’s speaking to you. And that would lead you to a better place. And never be in a rush to prove yourself. Build your allies,

build your environment, know your people before you take, you know, you make that first step. And since then, that will not get me, as it were. Yeah. And up till today, the other day I was asked to be a consultant for a policy in a different department and

I said, let me look and see what other gender policies there are. And of course, I went to the Office of the High Commissioner. The one that we developed and that was signed by the famous Navi Pillay still stands. That’s what they’re implementing up to today. Nobody has done a different one.

I feel proud because when I said to this consulting team that there’s one here that I was a part of, it sank in. So that was my lesson learned.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (47:56.908)

Wonderful.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (48:04.199)

Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that story. You are listening to ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Isha Dyfan-Davies. Isha, we’ve talked about your journey from birth, quite frankly,

through to you having several moves as a child and then becoming a lawyer and then moving again from Sierra Leone to the United States. We’ve talked about your work in different countries as an expert consultant. We’ve also talked about your work at the UN. What self-care strategies or practices help you to sustain your energy and motivation

while navigating your journey?

Isha L. Davies (49:06.563)

I like spas. I think when I’m stressed, I need to sort of calm myself down. Going to a good spa and doing the whole works is something that helps me to breathe and to really sink in to refresh myself. And of course, I always—my exercise is one other way that

helps me to de-stress and rejuvenate myself and think properly. That has helped me over my life and over time. And I like reading. I like reading a lot. I’m reading the Bible, of course, but I also like reading historical books. I like books

about personal life, true stories. I don’t read scientific books or any books of that nature. I like traveling. I like traveling. I like nature. I like nature a lot. Water, mountains, the green. So I’ve been to safaris, I’ve gone on cruises.

That’s my type of holiday and relaxation. I like dancing too; it’s part of my exercise thing. My husband is a very good dancer; I dance a lot. And my friends will always say, she’s not only enjoying dancing, she’s actually doing her steps. So they know me now.

But these are the things I do to rejuvenate, to get myself thinking. Yeah, these are things I like. I’m a homebody. I like being at home, doing housework. I know a lot of people don’t like housework. I do my housework to just think. And I like home improvements, and I like to be home and entertain my friends, a small group of friends.

Yeah, those are the things I do to calm myself down and enjoy life.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (51:38.695)

Wonderful. How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Isha L. Davies (51:52.747)

Well, I mean, number one is doing this podcast. You know, I can imagine that a few people will listen and find it interesting and wonder. I’ve focused more on a little bit more on my career, so that might be useful to a lot of people. So I’ve done a lot of mentoring throughout my professional career. I think I could continue with that. It’s one of the things one could do.

I do it within the family, especially with young mothers asking, did you manage with your boys and how did you manage with your girls? So mentoring is one way that I think I could help. The other is that, just thinking about my husband and I trying to set up business. But of course, with COVID, we were not able to continue.

We set up an Airbnb, but we were not able to come back to it. We just rented the property. You know, I do—I mean, my family, most of them, because we’re immigrants generally in Sierra Leone, are business people. So that’s one of the ways I think I could be of assistance. Yeah, so.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (53:21.223)

Thank you. What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Isha L. Davies (53:31.852)

I’ve just finished my six years. It comes to an end officially on the 30th of this month. So I haven’t really thought of what’s next, but there is a “what next.” And as I have just said, maybe looking into mentoring, because I seem to have the personality to mentor young people, could be one area

that I could look at. I have a friend in Uganda who has set up something called Root. It’s about skilling young people, giving them those things that they’re not taught at school or university to start life. So life skills, in other words. And I think, without the academic part of it,

which should be by the experts, but that people like us with a lot of experience could sort of segue into that period where young people are either leaving school wanting to start a business or leaving university, going to professional work, to see: how do I manage in an office, how do I do these things, how do I talk to my bosses or my colleagues and all of that? Because, I mean, I’ve been working for

40 years or more. And that could be one way that I was thinking that one could set up something like that in Sierra Leone as well to help. But other than that, I’ve been encouraged to write a book. I’ve been encouraged to write a book. As you know, in the UN, a lot of it is writing. But of course, it’s writing very legalistic or other kinds of

professional papers and reports. But yeah, I’m also thinking of that. Do I have a story to tell? Have I found my purpose in life? You know, what is it? Who is my audience? Are these kinds of things out there already, you know? So yes, I’m talking to my friends and colleagues,

those who are encouraging me, who say, you know, yes, you will find a niche somewhere. So that’s another thought.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:10.895)

And so the book that you’re contemplating, will it be about your life? What would you focus on, do you think?

Isha L. Davies (56:18.955)

You know, to be honest with you, I haven’t gone into those details, but I think my life, both professional and personal, could have some distinctive features that could make for interesting reading. Whether it’s the fact that I have a Moroccan heritage, how is that? I mean, that’s also very interesting. I’ve been researching—I come from the Berbers

of Morocco. These are from North Africa; that could be interesting—who 200 years ago were slave traders, and then they became business people, they had an empire, they lost it, and they became moving people. So there’s a lot in that. The village where my father’s ancestors came from still exists. I’d like to travel and find out.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (57:16.040)

Have you been there yet? Have you been to that village?

Isha L. Davies (57:18.075)

No, I haven’t. No, but I would. I would now that I’m free. But just even my professional career and overcoming obstacles should also be of interest to some people, I think. I don’t think—maybe it’s not, in today’s world, I’m not the only person who would have gone through these experiences, but there might be some pearls that one could

manifest.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (57:51.249)

Well, I’ll say for the record, I look forward to reading your book.

Isha L. Davies (57:54.508)

I pray that I do write it. But I’ve been encouraged. I’m thinking about it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:03.968)

And what brings you joy?

Isha L. Davies (58:08.523)

Oh, my grandchildren. I have 11 of them. Two of them are at university, but it’s the youngest ones. I have one that’s one, just turned one, and one that just turned three. My daughter’s children live in England, and we talk to them every day on video. And I have some here. Just yesterday,

a quick story: yesterday we went to visit one of my grandchildren and they had just come from church and the mother was telling me, you cannot imagine what he told me this morning. I said, what? She said, I gave him one dollar to put in the collection plate. And he said to me, to make Jesus rich? These are the things that really—and all of them, they make me laugh.

They’re such fun. I mean, I think I’m enjoying my grandchildren now, perhaps more than I enjoyed my children. My children don’t want to hear that, but that’s the thing. I spend time with them and listen to their nonsense. And their mothers cannot, you know, don’t have the time. I have to wash this, I have to do this. No, I can take them and just listen and just laugh and just play. And so that’s what gives me joy. And just trying to live healthy living

in my old age is another thing that gives me joy. And then just being home and looking for something to do. Now, we should change the windows. Can we change the windows or, you know, can we do the floor? I enjoy that. I enjoy gardening in the summer. You know, we grow vegetables, we grow greens. You know, you would think that this is a little

farm at the backyard. So I spend a lot of time with my flowers. I talk to them and all kinds of things. I love gardening.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:00:13.487)

And what book recommendation do you have? It can be a book that you’ve read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Isha L. Davies (01:00:23.019)

I have two in mind. One that has stayed with me and has maybe helped me to have 35 years of marriage. That’s, I think, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus.

It’s about relationships and

honestly, I keep recommending it to my children. They’re not listening. Because honestly, it has helped me to know the biology of my partner and the sociology. I mean, and I’m sure that that means that you do not react immediately. You think, where could that behavior have come from? You know, and then you measure your response accordingly.

And that book I read maybe when I was in my 20s or 30s. And it has stayed with me. Every time, I say, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. Because it is true that our biology and our sociology—if you understand your partner and others from those two perspectives, conflicts will be limited.

Conflict will be there, but they will be limited because your reaction time will be longer, and coming back to—even if you fly off the handle, you would come back and repair mistakes easily because you understand. And the second book that I could recommend is a book that I read for my kids because

when they were in school here, Rich Dad Poor Dad. You may have heard it. I think it’s by John Gray. Rich Dad Poor Dad, yes, by John Gray. And that book, you know, my kids read it as a reading book from school. And I took that book and read it just like a mother would read a book.

And I found it so fascinating. And I said, why didn’t they recommend this book for every child? Because you need to know about money. You need to know about values. You need to know about a job and entrepreneurship. You need to know all these things. And it was so helpful to me in terms of just leaving my kids to

find their own level and not to say, you have to be a lawyer or you have to be a doctor, but rather be flexible and see what their talents are and to help them develop that. That book was very helpful to me. I hope that it’s helpful to them to guide them.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:03:33.457)

Isha, we’re coming to the end of this fascinating conversation. Is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Isha L. Davies (01:03:44.808)

Yes, I was thinking about this when I listened to other podcasts and I kept coming back to the fact that the three things I came up with—discipline, determination, and open-mindedness—are three elements of a character that builds human beings, and that if there’s anything that someone takes away

from this podcast, it could be those three characteristics. If you can develop those in life, and in a very changing life, that would be very important. And maybe the last one—let me just, I made some notes here.

And that’s about purpose. And I listen a lot about purpose in life. And at 70, I was wondering, have I identified my purpose in life, whether from a religious perspective, professional perspective, or just personally? And I’ve not arrived at a conclusion on that matter. I think perhaps finding your purpose in life

is a lifelong search for wisdom,

authenticity. And some people might find it early, and some—for me, I think it’s—I’ve had a meaningful life in my career and I have had an enjoyable life. I did not come from rags to riches, but I’m still on a journey.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:05:40.007)

So I just want to touch on that because you mentioned your purpose earlier.

Isha L. Davies (01:05:46.475)

Mm-hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:05:50.215)

I know at my ripe age, at 61, when I was younger, I always felt when you get to this age, this general age, as an older person, that you would have known. Like for me, I thought, you get to 60, 70, you’re all wise, you’re all-knowing, you’re all-seeing.

When you get here, it’s like, okay, I still got more work to do. I still got to do this, still got to do that. Is that how you saw life? Like when you were younger, you look at maybe a grandparent or an elder and thought, when I get to that age, I want to be in that place. I want to have that level of knowledge. But then when we get here, it’s like, I’m still searching. I’m still looking, I’m still doing. Give me your thoughts on that.

Isha L. Davies (01:06:44.447)

Thank you. You got it. You got it. Yeah, because you see, I mean, I remember when I was studying to be a lawyer, I always wanted to be a lawyer. I imagined, you know, going to court, winning cases, and it all happened. I won many cases. I made money. And I saw myself as, you know, training other lawyers and having them in the office, retiring, just giving advice and

you know, seeing the business bloom. But it didn’t end up like that. Look at where I am today. The war came in; it changed that. The evolution. Never dreamt of working for the United Nations, never dreamt of non-governmental organizations, never even read about them. Non-governmental—who are they? What do they do? You know, never. But I found myself excelling in those things and putting just—just keep going, just

you know that determination, you’ve got to survive. You can’t lie there when you fall; you’ve got to get up and keep going. And then now, you know, six years, you know, the government was telling me, we don’t want this mandate; we’ve had it for 30 years. I just kept saying, slowly, let’s do this one by one. And at the end of six years, I’m like, wow, it’s done. I’ve written to everybody, thank you very much for support, thank you, thank you. Got back responses,

wonderful. Breathe. What’s my purpose in life?

You know, and I look at it from a religious perspective, from reading the Bible, I have not identified it. I pray every day, God, show me. I do, every day. What’s my purpose? Let me discern it. Let it manifest to me. So, yeah, that’s why I come to this inconclusive end part that

I think it’s just about knowing God. It’s a work in progress every time, every level. Some elements would be there, but maybe when you die, people will be able to say, well, if we look at their life, this is it. This is why God then sent them here, to help people.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:09:15.813)

Isha, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. And the appreciation nuggets that I’m taking away from our conversation—and I’m gonna start with the last one first. Finding purpose in life is a lifelong search and a lifelong process. You also said,

never let your ego override your instincts.

And the other one that I want to share is your views on determination and how you came to be in the world, the opportunities that were presented and that you took, and that you were able to grow and blossom and do. As life happened, you were able to pivot and do something else

in your life. And that absolutely speaks to determination, but with discipline, because you’re able to stay focused and steadfast in your journey. So I appreciate you sharing. I appreciate the time that you’ve taken. And thank you for joining me on ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking

overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories of people you may know. Isha Dyfan-Davies, thank you so much.