S3 Ep16. The Healing Power of Connection: A Conversation with Dr. Irma Campos

In this heartfelt conversation on AB Wilson’s Heart of the Matter, Dr. Irma Campos shares a thoughtful and deeply human reflection on what it means to live and work with curiosity, compassion and care. As a psychologist with experience in clinical and organizational settings, Irma explains how her inquisitive nature shapes the way she supports people, always looking beyond the surface to understand the deeper why behind behavior, emotion and struggle. 

Her person-centered approach comes through clearly as she speaks about honoring each person’s perspective, lived experience and worldview while staying grounded in warmth and respect.

Irma also opens up about joy, describing herself as someone who appreciates the small pleasures in life, from savoring a good meal to laughing at herself and finding lightness where she can. She reflects on the value of helping individuals and organizations thrive, sharing how her work with Grossman Consulting is focused on building well-being, stronger leadership and healthier systems that create ripple effects far beyond the individual. That systems-level perspective is matched by her belief that connection matters, especially in a fast-paced and often isolating world.

One of the most moving parts of the conversation is Irma’s honest reflection on grief, loss and the emotional layers that can accompany change. She speaks beautifully about acceptance, the shifting weight of grief over time and the importance of honoring loved ones by keeping their legacy alive through warmth, action and remembrance. 

Throughout the episode, she offers a powerful reminder that wellbeing, rest and human connection are not luxuries but essentials and that we are all part of something bigger than ourselves.

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Transcript

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:01.57)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson. My guest on today's show is Irma Campos. Irma is inquisitive, joyful, person-centered. Irma, welcome to the show.

Dr. Irma Campos (00:32.386)

Thank you so much for having me. What a beautiful message and just a focus of the program. I'm excited to be here.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:40.438)

Irma, the way I always like to start is to learn a little bit more, and especially about your descriptors. Tell me why you selected "inquisitive." What does that look like for you?

Dr. Irma Campos (00:54.158)

Yeah, "inquisitive" I think really drives a lot of the processes that I use in the work that I do, but also as I view myself as a person. I like to not just think about the what, but also the why behind the what. So what is it that people maybe are feeling, for example, but why might that also be? What is it that people might struggle with, but why might that be? So being able to really dig in a little deeper, for example, into understanding from the person's perspective, and also from various perspectives like psychological perspectives, why someone might be experiencing what they're experiencing.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:41.122)

And you mentioned your work. What kind of work do you do?

Dr. Irma Campos (01:44.366)

So I am a psychologist, and I was trained as a clinical psychologist in particular, but have also expanded to applying a lot of psychological principles to workplaces. So what we also call industrial and organizational psychology is a bit of what I do now. I'm trained as a clinical psychologist, but have worked in spaces where we take a lot of the things that we know work with individuals and apply them to systems to help people become productive, improve their well-being, function better as teams, and ultimately function better as organizations.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (02:21.678)

Hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (02:26.58)

And I want to move on to your next descriptor, "joyful." Tell me about that.

Dr. Irma Campos (02:31.488)

Yeah, so deep down, although I would say I am certainly introverted and reserved at first, deep down I do believe that I have a lot of joy within me, a lot of joy to share. I appreciate the pleasures in life, even the small little things, like enjoying a meal that has been cooked with someone's effort and time. So just also laughing about silly things, including laughing about myself. So I'd like to think of myself ultimately as a joyful person, and I hope to bring that to others when possible.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (03:12.078)

And how do you do that? How do you spread and share your joy?

Dr. Irma Campos (03:15.692)

Yeah, great question. I think things like this, right, really seeing the positive first and foremost in individuals, seeing the strengths in people, and making a little light of ourselves, not taking things so seriously unless they, of course, need to be taken seriously. If we're talking about, for example, facing challenges, confronting fears, working through difficulties in a client relationship, then we'll take things a little more seriously. But there are some moments where we can laugh at a situation and make light of it and also view things from a positive perspective.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (04:00.79)

Hmm.

And your third descriptor was "person-centered." What does that look like?

Dr. Irma Campos (04:08.588)

Yeah, so I think this goes back a bit to what I was sharing earlier. Really trying to think about, from that person's point of view, what might they be experiencing from a thought perspective, from an emotional perspective, from a knowledge-based perspective, a skills-based perspective. What is it that they, as a worldview as well, are viewing and interpreting the world as? So I try to take that approach, for example, in relationships when possible, and also in my work when possible. So being very focused on viewing things from that lens that applies to the person that's in front of me, and honoring that -- honoring that we all have our lived experiences, identities, worldviews, and also that I have that as well. So honoring both.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (05:09.636)

Thank you, Irma. I'd like our listeners to learn a little bit more about you. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Dr. Irma Campos (05:23.118)

Okay, yes, great question. So first, people are often surprised because of my accent, but I spoke Spanish before I spoke English. And I was born in the United States, but both of my parents immigrated from the Republic of Panama. And so they were, I think, very keen on us maintaining not just the language, but some of the cultural values and practices. A way of doing that was to encourage us to only speak Spanish at home and to teach us, for those of us who were born in the US, Spanish first and then to learn English outside of the home. So that's one, and one that I'm really, really happy and proud about -- that my parents were able to offer as a gift.

And secondly, I would say that although I have this reserved nature, I can also have this other side of me where I can let loose, if you will. And so one of my favorite types of music to dance to is reggaeton. I'm a big dancer in general. So I would say that that's a little surprising to people unless they know me very well.

And then the third thing would be how big a foodie I am. Again, I enjoy the small pleasures in life, so I truly, truly enjoy just savoring a delicious meal, delicious flavors, taking them in with all of the senses -- well, I guess it would be primarily one sense -- but really taking it in through the taste and appreciating it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (07:06.724)

Do you have a favorite food that you like to eat?

Dr. Irma Campos (07:10.988)

Hmm. There are so many options, I wouldn't even know where to begin. But some of my favorite cuisines would be Indian, certainly -- South Indian in particular. I certainly appreciate Italian. I appreciate Latino, various Latino and Caribbean Latino dishes. So variety.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (07:35.524)

Thank you.

Dr. Irma Campos (07:37.358)

Thank you. Thank you for asking that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (07:42.788)

Can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Dr. Irma Campos (07:49.709)

Yes, so in the last few years I would say overall expanding to work with organizations -- working directly to serve larger systems -- is something that my team and I are pretty proud of. In the consulting organization that I have, GrowSpan Consulting, we work to really develop skill sets and also increase well-being for employees and leaders. And so we're proud of that work because it is targeting an entire system versus targeting just an individual.

So in a way, we hope that it's making a larger impact. And that's the feedback that we've received: as we're helping leaders improve their performance management of their employees, it's a trickle-down effect, and it's helping improve not just their lives but also the lives of employees. And then we also work with high-performing employees who sometimes need that support. And so we're proud of that -- proud of being able to work within a system and to serve a system, hopefully to generate a larger impact than just at the individual level, although the individual level is also of course really important and powerful as well.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (09:12.844)

And you mentioned the name of your organization. Can you say it again and how people can find you?

Dr. Irma Campos (09:17.814)

Yes, great that you asked. It's GrowSpan Consulting LLC. And people can find us by going directly to our website: www.growspanconsulting.com. They can also follow us on LinkedIn under GrowSpan Consulting. And they can find us on our page where we post updates and share insights to really just openly help leaders and high-performing employees continue to develop particular skill sets that are really important now more than ever, like cognitive, interpersonal, and others.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (10:06.084)

And please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me, please.

Dr. Irma Campos (10:16.087)

Yeah, so one of the first memories I have of that, at least professionally, was earlier in my training as a psychologist, when I was learning not just to connect based on content with someone, but to also connect at an emotional, relational level. So for example, not just listening to what someone is saying at the surface, but also going deeper into what they may be feeling and what they may be needing. So an example of that was I was working with a client. We weren't making as much progress as we had hoped in addressing some personal concerns. And as I worked on that particular skill, I realized that I was able to help move things a little forward with the client, because that connection and that relationship is so important in helping generate some change.

She herself noticed that and thanked me just immensely for making space, for allowing space for the emotions and the needs, and to tap into that -- because if we were both just at the surface of what was being said and not moving deeper into what was really there, I don't think we would have made the progress to understand what was happening. And so the picture was just being able to go deeper, connect with the person more. And then the feedback was that that facilitation was really powerful. And that's helped me just continue that skill development over time: not just listening to the words people are saying, but more to what they may mean, what they may be feeling that they aren't sharing, or that they may not even know themselves sometimes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (12:11.749)

Thank you. And what were the key strengths and qualities that you rely on to help make a difference?

Dr. Irma Campos (12:21.487)

Compassion, right? I think first I try to again think that there's a reason people engage in any action. There's a reason people even have certain thoughts, sometimes we know them, sometimes we don't. Certain emotions as well. So compassion, and also just being able to relate on some level. And then the facilitation of going into a deeper space of what's happening in the present moment with a person.

And then appropriately, I think I rely on self-disclosure. I don't over-rely on that. I think it's important to understand we all have individual differences -- my experiences aren't necessarily going to mirror in others. And it's important to also give the space to whomever we're working with, whether that's in the psychotherapy room or in a training or workshop, to not just be focused on the self, but also to appropriately self-disclose and share things that may be relevant or helpful to others. So those are a few of the skills that I've relied on in that situation.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (13:44.549)

Thank you. Can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Dr. Irma Campos (13:56.271)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, quite a few. The biggest one that I think has been most impactful is just the experience of loss, like losing a loved one. I think the permanent nature of that can be very difficult to grasp at first. It also has been difficult at times to cope with the emotions that arise, to understand it, why it happens, for example. But I think the way I have overcome those experiences is through, one, acceptance of the experience and of the emotions moment to moment. And then also being able to share and to connect on those experiences with others. That is a universal human experience that across cultures, across time, we face, and so being able to share and connect with others about that has been powerful.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (15:10.341)

You've talked about sharing with others. Were there other tools that you were able to use -- maybe from your practice, but even from your own personal experiences -- in helping you to deal with grief?

Dr. Irma Campos (15:28.075)

Yeah, one thing that stands out is certainly, in helping process grief, we also teach that there's a way to still honor the life and the person, and that's part of the grieving process. In addition to, of course, accepting various emotions and the stages that we can vacillate from.

But I think that honoring a life and the legacy of the individual that we lose -- to me, that has been a big, big help and support. Being able to continue to have them somehow present in my life by honoring what they stood for, even if it's through expressing warmth, even if it's through honoring an organization that was connected to that person, contributing to a particular cause. So in various ways, still keeping that person alive.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (16:38.213)

I know as I have faced grief over the years, one of the things that I learned is your feelings don't stay the same, right? They change and they grow. And as time passes, it continues to change. Has that been your experience? Even with maybe people that you work with, but from your own experiences -- you can look back over time and think, "Wow, I was here and now I'm in a different space," but that doesn't change you missing the person.

Dr. Irma Campos (17:23.189)

Yeah, yeah, right. And then you can have certain emotions towards emotions changing at times as well. And so yeah, I love that you bring that up. Yes, it has happened. Almost like -- I view it as the heaviness can shift. It's still there, still is longing there, still is, in my experience, a wish that things were different, still a sense of loss, but maybe the weight or the heaviness shifts over time. And it can shift in various directions. I think that's also part of the stages of grief, if you will -- that you can alternate. They're not linear, we're finding in the research, but instead you can shift between the stages at any given point. But yes, I would say I have had the experience of changes with grief itself. And what I tell myself is that riding the waves -- the analogy of riding the waves of emotions, but riding the waves of those changes too -- helps a lot. Not resisting, not pushing away, but compartmentalizing too when needed is important. So yeah, I totally relate to that and thank you for sharing.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (18:48.721)

And the one thing that you said -- of the many things, but something that has really struck me, and I've never heard it like this, but I appreciate it -- is where you've said you have certain emotions to the emotions of change. And I'm like, that's true, right? How do I feel about this change that I've gone through? Should I still be here or should I be doing something else? And I'll speak for myself: I found myself reacting to my feelings while I'm feeling, which is kind of -- it's like layers on top of layers.

Dr. Irma Campos (19:25.972)

Absolutely, absolutely. And that is part of being human, right? As we interpret things happening within ourselves and sometimes have judgments about what's happening within ourselves, even though we can't always control what is happening within ourselves. So I think it is helpful to notice that and have that almost meta awareness and acceptance. To me, that's been a big game changer overall -- radical acceptance of certain things that are happening within, and certain things that are happening externally in our environment that we can't always control or change.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (20:18.246)

Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for sharing that. You've given me another layer to think about.

Dr. Irma Campos (20:28.473)

Thank you too. Yeah, part of it was from, I think, our interaction, our dynamic, that this piece arose.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (20:38.52)

You are listening to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Dr. Irma Campos. Irma, we have talked about grief. We have talked about our feelings -- emotions around the emotions we may be feeling around grief. You spoke about learning to speak Spanish first before you learned English. And you've also given us an overview of your descriptors, which are inquisitive, joyful, and person-centered. What self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Dr. Irma Campos (21:31.747)

Mm-hmm. So first, rest and recovery. I think it is highly undervalued in various societies, but especially the one that I live in, in the United States. A lot of discussion around productivity, business, and quote-unquote outcomes, financial outcomes. And what we have to remember is that well-being is an outcome, and is incredibly intertwined with some of those other outcomes too. And something I keep in mind is that rest is important. Time to recover, to regenerate -- you know, cells regenerate, my mind self-reflects, accepts things that maybe I'm not accepting internally -- all incredibly important. So I do take some time to do that. I take a little bit of time on the weekends always for myself, even if it's difficult, because there are often a lot of things to do as a business owner.

Yes, I think I certainly am striving to prioritize that more and more. And then I think also just connection with humans, with people that are super, super important to me. I went into the field, went into psychology first because I just really value humans, value the diversity of them, the complexity of them, and appreciate just really connecting with the people in my life that are important. And so I strive to do that in different ways, whether that's a call, a video call if they're afar, or in person -- all the better -- for those who live in the same city that I live in.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (23:30.182)

Thank you. How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Dr. Irma Campos (23:44.547)

Well, I hope that a message that I try to share -- of interconnection, of the importance of psychological well-being -- resonates with leaders, with business owners, with community members. Because they, we, are often all pushing ourselves to do more, to quote-unquote be more, and I think we sometimes forget, one, about those other outcomes I was talking about -- like our well-being, our satisfaction, our happiness, our joy, our well-being physically and psychologically. But we also forget about connecting with people and remembering that we are all impacted by each other, and we are all part of systems. And so I hope that that is one of the central messages that we can all maybe remember as we go through our lives, and hopefully have a positive effect for each other -- remembering that we're all in this together, one way or another.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:59.64)

And how -- and I just want to divert a little. We often hear people trying to find a way to connect, trying to find a way to be in happiness and be in joy. And I think what we're seeing more and more is that even though we're more connected socially in terms of devices, we are becoming more and more lonely and isolated. And I've talked about this in the past -- the former US Surgeon General wrote a report on loneliness and isolation in the United States, and he said that loneliness is becoming an epidemic in the US. So I guess I want to ask you more about how do people get interconnected? How do you, from your perspective, encourage people to get more connected, to find that way to reach out to another, especially if you're lonely and especially if you're feeling isolated and don't know how to fix it?

Dr. Irma Campos (26:22.061)

Yeah, well, I think so many things start with the way we view these concepts. I think first and foremost, various belief systems or perspectives -- including psychological, newer perspectives like acceptance and commitment therapy, for example -- really promote the idea that as the self, we're not a separate construct. The individual is actually part of something bigger.

And I think starting there, so first people viewing themselves as something bigger than just themselves -- separate -- that, I think, is first and foremost what's important. Secondly, I think through that lens, thinking not just of what can sometimes be of service or benefit to oneself, but without expecting anything, without asking for anything, what can you offer someone else? Whether that's something very small, quote-unquote, to something much larger. Because if you have the concept that you aren't separated from the other, you're really ultimately giving to all of yourselves. And so I think it starts with that point of view and that perspective of the self.

And then it also, I think, extends to actions. The actions being giving and offering more than asking or taking. And from there, of course, we also have personal needs, but I think we can build on that. But first, to deeply connect, we should be thinking about the other, in my opinion.

Dr. Irma Campos (28:20.171)

It's a process of building a relationship, and thinking of -- yes -- the way people are viewing connection, sometimes still in this day and age, is more of asking something from the other, or trying to take or extract, versus sharing or giving, contributing. That's a bit of the difference. Or connecting a bit at the surface as well, rather than through this humanity deeper-level connection. So it's a bit different.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (29:00.006)

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And hopefully somebody that's listening, it has helped them to move in a direction, or at least one step, towards connection.

Dr. Irma Campos (29:17.081)

Yeah, yeah. I hope so. It's not easy, certainly. We live very fast-paced lives, lives that demand a lot of us -- and I think that's the other component, that's a reality. And we are very distracted too. And so that's where it's important to be very intentional about our focus, what we're engaging with. This is where an area of interest for me has been for many years -- what we call executive functioning. So higher-order cognitive skills around self-regulation, around what we do with the skills in our mind that aren't automatic. So we have to very much self-direct and self-regulate these skills. And so that's been an area of interest, a big part of it because I think it can dictate so much in people's lives, from relationships to how they perform in the spaces that matter to them, and so on.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (30:19.739)

Hmm, thank you. What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Dr. Irma Campos (30:34.645)

Exciting opportunities -- continuing to work with organizations. So on the horizon is collaborating, partnering with larger -- mid-sized to larger -- organizations that are desiring people management, leadership development, and other types of trainings and services. It's aligned with my aspirations because I just again value so much the opportunity to contribute, to maybe positively impact a system, have that trickle-down effect in the organization as we work with leaders and managers, and also helping the leaders and managers cope and really continue to develop things that are important to them.

I say "cope" because there is a lot of pressure as a leader, as a manager, that they're often facing within. Sometimes that can be hard to vocalize, sometimes not, but I think that's a reality. And I also think that the skill piece -- they are, many times, lifelong learners, so being able to contribute to that learning and development is something that we're excited about as well.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (32:02.062)

And you touched on this very early on during our conversation. What brings you joy?

Dr. Irma Campos (32:08.855)

Yeah, small things. Small things can bring me joy. Savoring a delicious meal. Spending time with a loved one. Going on a lovely vacation where I could disconnect from a lot of things that are part of just the fast-paced life that we live in at times.

But yeah, those are some things that bring me joy off the top of my head. And the work I do really brings me a lot of joy too, truly. I'm very fortunate. I've worked with -- honestly, I was trying to count the other day -- thousands of people in different capacities, and have learned so much from them. I've been honored that they shared their journeys and struggles, but also just joys with me, and I'm very, very lucky.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (33:10.992)

Thank you, Irma. We're nearing the end of our time together. And so what book recommendation do you have? It can be a book that you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years. And it can be more than one book.

Dr. Irma Campos (33:27.503)

Okay, well I have one in mind. Definitely one is it's called A Liberated Mind. I recommend it a lot. It's by Dr. Steven Hayes, a psychologist. And this is from the perspective that I mentioned earlier -- acceptance and commitment therapy. It is a wonderful perspective for coaching, for psychotherapy, for also conducting psychological research. So it is one of my favorites.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (34:01.128)

Did you have others, or is that the one?

Dr. Irma Campos (34:04.611)

That's about it. That's the one at the top of the list. I like others that are probably a little less interesting to the general public.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (34:16.367)

Irma, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Dr. Irma Campos (34:22.775)

No, other than I loved this approach -- just your openness, the inquiry, and just the dynamic that was able to unfold. I think I was just reflecting on that, and that would be all that I would have to share at this point.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (34:42.821)

Irma, thank you so much for your time. I just want to go over some of the appreciation nuggets that I'm taking away from our conversation. One of them I mentioned already -- having emotions around the emotions that you have, feeling especially around grief. But I think that could translate to a lot of different emotions that we have and that we go through over time, right?

And as I think about it, we could be extremely happy and then maybe not as happy, and then we think back to the time when we were happy and think, "Well, why aren't I as happy?" Anyway, this is a rabbit hole, and I think I'm going to go down it by myself a little because I really want to examine that. I mean, I'm curious about that.

And you've given me that as a gift to think about. And I really want to examine that for myself. You talked about compassion, and you also talked about actions that people can do in order to make connection -- that is giving without expectation, that you give and that you are generous in your giving, and that opens up avenues in ways that I think people don't necessarily expect. Your self-care: rest and recovery and rejuvenation, taking time to spend with people that you care about, and also being a foodie -- the fact that you truly appreciate good food. Irma, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate you joining me on ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and wisdom of people you may know.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (37:04.194)

Dr. Irma Campos, thank you so much.

Dr. Irma Campos (37:07.353)

Thank you for having me. What beautiful moments we have shared. Thank you so much.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (37:13.032)

Thank you. Thank you.