S3 Ep22. Beautifully Unbroken: Yollanda Zhang on Compassion, Courage, and Coming Full Circle

In this heartfelt conversation on ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, Yollanda Zhang shares a deeply moving story of growth, resilience and healing. She describes herself as compassionate, insightful and integrative, three words that reflect not only her professional path but also her personal journey. 

From engineering to teaching to entrepreneurship, Yollanda explains how each chapter of her life has shaped her ability to support others with empathy, creativity and purpose.

Yollanda opens up about the experiences that led her to become a mother, entrepreneur, nonprofit founder, coach, mental health advocate, keynote speaker, and soon, therapist. She reflects on how motherhood inspired her to create a Mandarin school for her daughter and how the loss of her grandmother motivated her to launch Girl Strong, a nonprofit designed to help girls build resilience and confidence. 

Throughout the episode, she speaks candidly about living with bipolar disorder, the long road of treatment and the healing power of sharing her story. Her honesty about shame, self-compassion and the importance of asking for help brings a powerful and tender dimension to the conversation.

The episode also highlights Yollanda’s remarkable work as an educator and mentor. She shares one especially meaningful story about a young girl in her nonprofit program who struggled with severe social anxiety and eventually became a finalist in an international speaking contest. For Yollanda, this was not just a success story, but a reminder that helping others uncover their potential can create lasting ripples of transformation. 

She also reflects on the practices that sustain her, including meditation, sound baths and intentionally making room for rest, even when productivity tries to take over.

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Transcript

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:01.12)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, and my guest on today's show is Yollanda Zhang. Welcome to the show.

Yollanda Zhang (00:29.042)

Thank you so much for having me here.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:31.656)

And Yollanda, your descriptors are compassionate, insightful, integrative. Let's start with integrative. Tell me about that. What does that look like for you?

Yollanda Zhang (00:38.238)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (00:43.902)

Sure. I think for me, the word came up because I'm in the last stages of training to be a registered psychotherapist in Canada. And we're often asked, you know, what's your favorite modality or therapeutic approach to use? And for me, it really depends on what the client comes to me with. I see myself as somebody with a toolkit,

and there are different tools in here. And so I call it, you know, that integrative approach, or the integrated approach, that's really talking about my toolkit. But also integrative kind of explains my whole life. I wear a lot of different hats. I was an engineer, and then I became a high school teacher, and then a serial entrepreneur. I own my own school and nonprofit.

So I feel like my whole life has been very integrative as well, because I need to really integrate a lot of things I've learned, my lived experiences, to do what I do. So that's where that word comes from.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:54.584)

So before I go to your next descriptor, tell me about changing careers in seemingly different areas, right? An engineer, a teacher -- let's start with serial entrepreneur. What does that look like?

Yollanda Zhang (01:57.278)

Sure.

Yollanda Zhang (02:04.893)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (02:09.629)

Sure. So, 11 years ago, I became an entrepreneur. Well, actually, no, sorry. 11 years ago I became an entrepreneur, but 13 years ago I became a mom. And it is because of motherhood that inspired me to become an entrepreneur. I am Chinese Canadian, so my own cultural heritage is very important to me,

and I wanted to be able to pass that on to my daughter. But we live in an area in the city where there aren't a lot of Chinese Canadians. And so I decided to start a Mandarin school where we live so that my daughter could not only access language education in her neighborhood, but also develop a sense of pride in her own cultural heritage. So that's actually how I

started my journey as an entrepreneur. And then a few years after that, I lost my grandmother, who raised me from birth. And so the grief of losing my grandmother inspired me to launch a nonprofit called Girl Strong, to help girls in underserved communities and communities at large to access quality programming to build their internal resilience and become limitless women.

And then I ended up starting a coaching company, and I became a mental health advocate, became a keynote speaker. Last year I wrote my own book. So that's another journey. The book is coming out next year. So that serial entrepreneur kind of had many different components, and these are actually things I am all still doing.

And now I'm adding another part to it, which is I'm going to be starting my own private practice as a therapist as well. So I might have to drop a few things to make room now, but yeah, that's the serial entrepreneur part of it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (04:21.694)

And how do you...

What drives you? How do you find the energy to be able to manage these various opportunities, I would assume, as they present themselves to you?

Yollanda Zhang (04:39.377)

Yeah, I think I'm going to give you a fairly unconventional answer, and probably not one that you're expecting. So I think for me, it's my trauma that actually drives me. You know, there's a lot of psychology behind people who are very high achieving and want to do a lot and can't stay still. Society sees that as a strength, right? You're doing so much, like

wow, that's amazing you're able to juggle so many things. But I know for myself that insatiable desire to do more, to achieve more, really comes from a place of pain and trauma, which I'm actually, you know, working on quite extensively to heal in myself. And as much as I am proud of the different things that I do and things I've

been able to achieve, I'm also quite aware that, you know, it's not from a place of strength that I'm doing these things. It's actually from a place of lack, you know, that I never felt enough. I never felt I was good enough. I never felt that I was doing enough. And so I just had to keep doing more and more. That goalpost keeps moving and, you know, I never get there.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (06:02.099)

And are you finding as you're becoming a therapist that your perspective is changing, that you are becoming less, maybe, pain and trauma driven?

Yollanda Zhang (06:05.821)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (06:17.629)

So I think even years before becoming a therapist, I've already had to do a lot of inner work to be less pain and trauma driven. You know, sometimes these patterns are so deeply rooted and deeply ingrained that it's really hard to break away from. But definitely, you know, the decision to become a therapist actually came from a place of

freedom and peace. It was when I felt that, you know, I felt ready to help other people on their healing journeys now, knowing what I know, having done the work that I've done. So the decision wasn't from a place of lack anymore. And actually, you know, even before I became an engineer, I was in high school and I really wanted to be a therapist.

That was my career goal in high school, but a lot of people, including my parents, really discouraged me from it because I was cursed with being really strong in the math and sciences. And so, you know, at that time -- I'm dating myself -- but this is like more than two decades ago, being an engineer was very prestigious. And why would I not choose to be an engineer if I could get into the top

engineering programs, which I did? And so I let go of the dream back then to be a therapist. So this is a full circle moment for me, really.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (07:59.79)

Congratulations on being able to follow your passion. Being insightful -- I'm going back to your descriptors.

Yollanda Zhang (08:08.38)

You sure?

Yollanda Zhang (08:12.09)

Yeah, so I think, you know, a lot of people who have walked through the dark, or have walked through the fire, so called, right? You kind of come out the other end, or at least emerge from that, with a lot of insights that you may not have had if you didn't experience some of those things. And I think for me,

you know, I've lived with bipolar disorder for 26 years. So I was diagnosed -- I just turned 46, so you can still see the balloons in my office that my daughter put up. But I was diagnosed 26 years ago and there were a lot of very, very dark times in my life. Multiple hospitalizations, you know, suicidal ideations, and...

You know, there was a lot of darkness in my life. And I think through that, I became stronger and I became more insightful because I was forced to be. It was part of survival as well, to kind of be able to see things more clearly, to be able to see myself more clearly, and to, you know, build a

support network and community around me that are really truly just some of the best people you know in the world. And it's all because of this -- what other people might see as a curse -- of living with a severe mental illness. But for me, it brought me a lot of insights and it gave me a lot of opportunities, and I

don't see it as a curse anymore. I did, of course, when I was younger, but I really do see it now more as a gift and a teacher.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (10:24.014)

So anybody who may be listening, what guidance or insight that you've gained over the years would you share around going through the fire, as you've described it, making your way through the darkness? What tools have helped you throughout your process?

Yollanda Zhang (10:39.676)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (10:52.86)

I mean, there are so many, right? As I always say, healing is a journey, but it's also like building Lego. There are so many bricks, so many pieces that it takes to kind of build yourself up again, right? From the fire -- kind of like the analogy of a phoenix rising from the ashes -- it's very

apt for living with bipolar disorder. A lot of people compare, you know, brain on fire, like fire, with this illness, and it's very true. So for me there were many, many things I've tried, many helpers, many therapists, many healers that I've worked with to help me build myself back up again. But if I were to share maybe

a key learning, I think it really depends on which stage in the healing process a person is at, whoever is listening. But if I were to speak to myself, my younger self from 26 years ago, when I was first diagnosed, that message would be quite different than what I would say to myself five years ago.

And that's actually partly why I wrote my book in a time travel nonfiction format for the memoir. I chose 10 moments of my life from the past and I time travel back to each of those 10 moments to talk to her, to give her support. So if I were to choose one of those 10 moments, I think it would probably be when I first got diagnosed

to share with you. That was one of the 10 moments that I wrote in the book. It would be that you are worthy of healing, that the diagnosis does not define you, and you do not need to live in shame, and you're not broken. So we were just talking before recording that I really love the Japanese art of kintsugi.

Yollanda Zhang (13:20.166)

So I have this on my desk -- it's a vase made from broken ceramic pieces that are mended together with gold -- and I actually use this often on stage when I deliver a keynote. And the reason I think this is so representative of my life is that I thought living with bipolar disorder meant my life is broken. And for two decades,

20 years, I did not share publicly about my condition. I would share with trusted people. I shared with my teams for my business, but I did not share publicly until six years ago. And as Brene Brown says, shame cannot live in the light, and the act of sharing and bringing my struggles to the light

actually was one of the most healing experiences ever. But culturally, you know, from the Chinese culture, there's a lot of stigma around mental health challenges and around sharing. Culturally, it's about keeping face, you know -- you need to protect your secrets, and you don't share. And so I would tell her, you know, from 26 years ago, I would say: you don't

need to see this as a shameful secret. And it's okay if you need help. It's okay to ask for help. You deserve help. You are worthy of help. And I think I really did internalize a lot of shame. And, you know, not blaming my parents for saying this because they were trying to protect me as well. But they did really urge me,

you know, not to tell anybody. Do not -- people will look at you differently. You're really going to be judged, and you're not going to have access to opportunities if people know this about you. And so I really internalized a lot of that, you know, earlier on, and really felt that heaviness of the shame. So I think that would be a key message I would offer to not only my younger self, but also to anyone

Yollanda Zhang (15:45.542)

who is still living under that weight of shame around mental health challenges -- that you're not broken. My keynote title is "Beautifully Unbroken," because I do believe that I am beautifully unbroken and that we are all beautifully unbroken.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (16:09.836)

Hmm.

And does your book have a title yet?

Yollanda Zhang (16:17.141)

Yeah, yeah, it does. So my book's title is Dear Younger Me: Becoming the Hero I Needed.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (16:24.814)

Excellent. And you said it's going to be out next year, 2027.

Yollanda Zhang (16:29.691)

Yeah, it's going to come out May 4th, 2027. I don't know if you're a Star Wars fan -- I was like, that's a beautiful date. May the force be with you. So I am a Star Wars fan, and so that was amazing. Not that I could have chosen the date; the publisher, they choose the date. But when I got it, I was like, I love this date. It's also mental health awareness month and Asian heritage month

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (16:35.244)

May the force be with you.

Yollanda Zhang (16:59.035)

of May. So that's actually the reason -- not because of Star Wars.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (17:07.948)

Yollanda, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. Your third descriptor was compassionate. Tell me about being compassionate.

Yollanda Zhang (17:14.947)

Mmm.

Yollanda Zhang (17:18.371)

Yeah, so I chose compassionate for many reasons. I'll share maybe the two biggest reasons. So one is I have never been compassionate with myself. The internal critic has always been very loud and pushed me to do more even when I needed rest.

I never really was able to access self-compassion. And I didn't even think that it was important. I think there was a part of me that felt compassion was kind of like a weakness. If you feel it for yourself -- you should always feel compassion for others, that was a given -- but I always felt

feeling compassion for myself is giving myself too much of a break. And that is a form of being weak. And culturally, it is definitely celebrated when you push through, when you don't rest and you do more, you achieve more, you run multiple businesses while juggling

being a mom, being a wife, being a daughter, being a friend, you know -- like that is what's celebrated. So I think I just didn't really have a lot of models for self-compassion until I came across the work of Dr. Gabor Mate many years ago. And, you know, I'm really privileged to say he's now my teacher and mentor, and I completed

his training for therapists called Compassionate Inquiry, which was so interesting for somebody who has never been self-compassionate to be drawn to this training. And I think through this year-long journey of learning from him, from the incredible community of practitioners, I really

Yollanda Zhang (19:38.425)

developed a lot more self-compassion. And that's why it's the first word -- when you asked me for three words, it was the first word -- because it really now drives everything I do. I always want to look at people and events through a compassionate lens, but most importantly, look at myself

through a more compassionate lens. I mean, it's not a perfect system. I still get mad at my husband. I just got mad at him this morning. Like, you know, it's not a perfect system, but it is a guiding light for me now. Compassion is really, really important. And I think for some reason, the universe seems to be sending me a lot of clients who are also not compassionate

toward themselves. So I am feeling so called to do this work, to cultivate compassion, you know, to help my clients cultivate compassion. I tend to work with a lot of high-achieving perfectionists. And so self-compassion is definitely very much lacking in their lives too.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (21:05.806)

And I don't know if there is a fast answer to this. How do you become more compassionate with yourself? How do you give yourself grace after not doing it?

Yollanda Zhang (21:10.842)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (21:17.956)

Yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (21:22.53)

Yeah, that's a beautiful question, and yeah you're right, there's not really an easy answer. I think there are many, many roads to not having compassion, right? And it depends on which road you were on to get to this place. But of course there are some commonalities too that I have seen.

I think a big one is not even thinking that you deserve compassion. I think that's a really big one. It's like a deep-rooted belief that you don't deserve to be compassionate towards yourself. And I think coming from a collectivist culture, it's really not about self-compassion.

It's really about giving outward compassion. And so I think the first step could even just be acknowledging that, you know, I actually deserve compassion too. And then maybe the next step could be noticing moments when you're not compassionate, and not meeting it with judgment, but just meeting it with curiosity and thinking,

well, why am I so hard on myself in this moment? Why am I not compassionate in this moment? So I think that might be the overly simplified answer -- to how one gets there -- just to know that you deserve compassion, and then to notice when it's not there in your life,

and maybe see how you can cultivate more compassion. You might be able to relate to this too. A lot of people who have -- I shouldn't assume, but because you really do a lot of things, so that's where the assumption comes from -- a great test is if you're sitting watching TV or just resting and then somebody comes in

Yollanda Zhang (23:47.627)

the room. Are you able to stay in your restful state, or do you tend to want to jump up and look busy? And that is very telling. Because if you are able to just stay at rest, doing whatever you were doing that's not productive -- let's say watching trashy TV on Netflix, which I do all the time, and eating chocolate cookie dough on the sofa, right --

even till this day, I have a hard time staying at rest when somebody comes into the room when I'm just resting.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:30.072)

So it's interesting you say that. I don't have a hard time staying at rest. What I have a hard time doing is being at rest. And what I mean by that is, after a long day I'll finish and I'll go sit down and watch some trashy Netflix, but I'm on my laptop,

Yollanda Zhang (24:36.314)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (24:42.586)

Mm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:59.53)

editing photography, or trying to, on my phone, do something. And so it's the busyness, even though I recognize, okay, I'm relaxing, but there's always something to do. I don't know -- it's only me and my husband in the house, so

Yollanda Zhang (25:06.937)

Yeah.

Right.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (25:23.798)

I don't feel the need to look busy, but I feel a need to be productive even at rest.

Yollanda Zhang (25:30.402)

Right, right, yeah. It's very similar, actually, to wanting to be productive even at rest. It's similar to not wanting to appear at rest when you are at rest. It's because it's still some kind of underlying judgment against being at rest, that it's not somehow a good thing.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (25:35.246)

Hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (25:58.966)

Mm, yes, because I always feel there's something to do. I've got so much going on. I can knock this out. Even if it's a small check mark, I've got it done. I don't have to do it tomorrow.

Yollanda Zhang (26:05.218)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's actually a really important step -- to actually notice it happening. Because we do so many things automatically, right? I mean, like our phones, just doom scrolling, like it's just so easy to do, and productivity can come in so many forms. So it is about the noticing that is important. It's that

noticing: wait, I decided to take a break. Why am I still responding to emails? Right? Like, to catch yourself, to catch yourself in that moment. And it's really hard to do. Like, it's so much easier said than done. I do that all the time. It's just automatic that I'm watching something and then all of a sudden my phone buzzes and my automatic reaction is just to pick up my phone and then just start working. And then half an hour later, I'm like, wait, what happened in the show?

I missed it. I have to go back. How did they get together?

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (27:11.63)

And that's why I watch Netflix, right? Because I can go back. I can go back and say, okay, where did I lose concentration? Okay, I remember this. I can go forward from there. Yollanda, thank you. I will try to notice. I will try to notice when I pick up my phone, or when I feel the need to reach for my laptop to get things done at rest, when I'm at rest, to try and be fully

Yollanda Zhang (27:16.088)

Yeah, yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (27:20.578)

Right.

Yollanda Zhang (27:28.025)

Alright.

Yollanda Zhang (27:36.614)

Mm. Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (27:40.43)

present to my rest.

Yollanda Zhang (27:42.699)

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (27:47.81)

So I just want to move on to our questions. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and friends will be surprised to learn.

Yollanda Zhang (27:51.416)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (28:03.866)

Okay. I know that was a really cool question, and I think because I do share a lot of things publicly, you know, in interviews, and soon in my book, there are not that many things I could say people can't find out about me. But I think one thing that would surprise my friends is that I'm naturally very, very introverted.

I don't really like being with a lot of people. I don't enjoy big social events. And the pandemic was actually how I found out about that. Because my extroversion, my social butterfly-ness, was actually a survival mechanism. Because I was praised so much for being so

extroverted, so sociable, so well spoken from a young age, that I just masked my true, actually quite introverted self. I don't really enjoy being around people all the time. I find it very stressful. And it was the pandemic that actually taught me what I needed, because I felt so much peace

and calm and joy at not having to socialize anymore. I even talked to my psychiatrist about this. I said, is it weird that I actually love this lockdown? Is it strange that I don't want the pandemic to end? Am I so weird? And I do have to name that I am privileged to even be able to feel that way, right?

I have food, shelter, space to be able to do that. And I know many people during the pandemic didn't -- they weren't living in safe situations. Many of my students weren't. And my heart was breaking, because it was a hard time for some of my students who were living in abusive situations and unsafe situations in close quarters, right, with their abusers.

Yollanda Zhang (30:30.997)

I wasn't, you know, so I was privileged. But what the privilege actually gave me was to know that it's okay to be introverted. It gave me permission. So that's a big surprising thing, I think, for a lot of people, because I do have a very seemingly outwardly sociable, extroverted persona -- I'm a speaker, I'm not shy speaking to thousands of people on stage. Like, how could you be introverted? Like, does that make any sense?

But I don't actually do many events in person anymore. I'm actually really dreading the book tour and having to travel all these places, meet people -- like it sounds terrible. Maybe we need to take this part out, but like, you know, but that's a big fear of mine, right? Like, now I'm going to have to do that. Oh my God, for a year or more.

Yeah, so I think that's a big surprise. I feel like that should take up two surprising things. And then the other one is I love paddleboarding, and the reason why this would be a surprise is -- it's not that you can't find this out, I've shared about this publicly -- but I'm actually really scared of water. And I'm not athletic, like at all. I'm probably one of the least athletic

people you will meet. But I just love paddleboarding. And for some reason, it helps me to overcome my fear of deep water because I love it so much. And it's an individual sport, so I get to do it on my own terms. I am mostly alone doing it, even though you could do paddleboarding with a group, I guess. But why would I do that? But it's very, you know, it's very calming. It's very mindful.

I feel this sense of agency, you know, being able to stand on water -- I mean, on the board, but like, you know, on water. Especially because water is -- I had a near-drowning experience when I was young, which is where the fear was developed. So it's, yeah, it's an empowering kind of feeling to be able to stand, you know, on water and not be in fear.

Yollanda Zhang (32:57.497)

I'm still scared actually. I'm scared of falling off because I'm not athletic, again, so I can't get back on. So that's actually the fear -- it's like, oh my gosh, am I going to have to kickboard all the way to shore? But so that would be surprising: how much I love paddleboarding, even though I'm actually quite scared of water.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (33:19.624)

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Did you have one more, or did you want to put the first one to encapsulate two of them?

Yollanda Zhang (33:29.657)

Okay, maybe I'll have one more. This is a bit of a silly one, I guess. I cry a lot watching grief videos of dogs. I have two dogs and I am a very committed dog mom. So if I ever watch a video of another dog owner losing their pet, I just

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (33:31.648)

Okay.

Yollanda Zhang (33:59.329)

lose it. Like I cannot. So now at the first sign of -- is this a grief video about a pet loss? I cannot watch it. And I also get intensely angry when movies have animals dying and they don't warn you ahead of time. I always feel strongly that this needs to be part of the rating. You know, they say rated 14, PG, whatever, rated R. I'm like,

the rating system needs to include whether an animal dies. Because for me, it's so catastrophic that I will -- like the rest of my day is done. So actually, yeah, that is something I've never shared publicly, but I do have this incredible soft spot for animals. And I get incredibly protective if animals get hurt, even if it's in a movie and they're not actually hurt.

Yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (35:04.106)

I have thought about writing letters to producers of movies. I'm just like, this is not okay. Like you didn't have to do this. Why did you? Yeah. So I just love animals.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (35:17.998)

So you would like to see pets dying in a show or a movie listed as a trigger warning.

Yollanda Zhang (35:26.312)

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I would love it if that just was not needed to be in a movie, in a story, you know? But I know that's not possible -- I'm not completely delusional about this -- but I feel strongly that the warning needs to be there, you know? Because sometimes you watch this movie and you think, this is such a cute movie about a dog and a family. Boom, the dog dies. And I'm like, I was not prepared for this.

And now the rest of my day is gone. Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (35:59.567)

Thank you for sharing that. Actually, I've never thought about that. I've never thought about

Yollanda Zhang (36:03.0)

Mm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (36:06.988)

the impact of

an animal dying -- and I say dying in air quotes -- on TV or in a movie or something that you're watching, as being alarming. And so thank you for that. Thank you. I won't be able to unsee it now, but thank you for pointing that out as something that may impact you and others deeply.

Yollanda Zhang (36:17.046)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (36:42.144)

Yeah, I haven't met anyone yet that is as angry about this as I am in person, but of course online, you know, there are a lot of people that do talk about this. I just don't have any personal connections with people who feel this way, this strongly. But yeah, I do feel quite strongly about this.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (37:10.328)

Can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Yollanda Zhang (37:17.825)

Hmm.

Yollanda Zhang (37:22.834)

I really think it's finishing my book. I mean, that's actually how we connected as well. My writing coach is Simone Dalton, and she helped me a lot in my journey to finishing my -- it's my first book -- and it was amazing. I got a book deal without even really trying. And so

but I didn't think I would finish the book. So that was another fear. It's like, I have a book deal now, but can I actually finish this book? So I think finishing the book is a huge accomplishment, and it was very healing for me to go through the process of writing this book. I had very frequent sessions with my own therapist during this process because I was really uncovering a lot of, you know,

childhood and difficult moments of my life that I didn't really address before. So I'm really proud that I went through that difficult process and I didn't give up and that I finished it.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (38:39.534)

Congratulations.

Yollanda Zhang (38:41.282)

Thank you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (38:43.126)

Yollanda, please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Yollanda Zhang (38:52.312)

Mmm.

Well, actually, when you ask that question, one story really comes to mind for me. It's actually a moment where I felt like I could just retire now, I've done enough. No, actually, I didn't say that to myself. One of my board of directors said that to me. And I thought, yeah, that's true. I could just retire now. So it's for my nonprofit,

Girl Strong, and there was a little girl who was six years old and she had fairly severe social anxiety. So she didn't really, she couldn't really speak up in class or in a small group. And you could see she would be trying, and there would be tears in her eyes, but she just couldn't form the words to say. And you know, it just

broke my heart to see her struggle like that, but I held a deep belief that she could do it. So slowly over the course of a year, we worked on her confidence, we worked on her speaking skills. She worked really hard, like so hard, and she tried so many things. And two years later,

she became the finalist for Canada in an international speaking contest. And I had her teachers come to me and ask me, what did you do? Like, she's a different person. You know, her hand shoots up and she's just able to speak now. And I say, you know, it's not me, it's her.

Yollanda Zhang (40:50.135)

She did it. She did the hard work. I just cheered her on. I just knew she could do it. And I mean, of course I did create the program and I did create the lessons and whatever, but she did the hard work. So I did share some of those lessons and activities with the teacher so she could help other kids too. But

this was a career-defining moment for me to see that possibility happen. Some may think it's not like a huge thing. I didn't save her life. When you ask me about when I'm proud of, or about an achievement or accomplishment, whatever. But to me, it's a career-defining moment.

You know, like that's all I really wanted to do. I knew I'm not in the life-saving business as a teacher, you know. I mean, I may be getting a bit closer now as a therapist, but still. But as a teacher, you know, I knew I wasn't in the life-saving business, but I always knew that I really was in the life-possibilities business, and that it was my job to help create

possibilities for my students. Yeah, so that little girl -- I mean, she's not so little now -- like, yeah, I still see her now once in a while, not in the program, but yeah, so I'm proud of that. I think I was agreeing with my nonprofit board member when she heard the story and said

I could retire now. I was like, yeah, I think so.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (42:50.894)

Thank you for sharing the story of the journey that you helped somebody on -- and with the program that you created -- helped somebody to perhaps have a different life, right? And as you've said, explore life possibilities.

Yollanda Zhang (43:06.551)

Yeah, yeah. And I think it goes back to why I started the nonprofit. It's because my grandmother, you know, she was a child bride, she never had opportunities to be educated. And I think through this little girl, even though my grandmother's no longer here, I thought my grandmother would have been proud, and that I was maybe helping her.

My grandma, you know?

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (43:43.352)

What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Yollanda Zhang (43:49.88)

I think I've always been a fairly positive person, you know. I could usually see the silver lining in things or I could see the possibility. So I think that's a big one -- just being positive, having a positive outlook. And then also I think I have the ability to see the possibility

for other people, maybe when they're not as able to because they're in the middle of the storm, right? And I think because I've been walking through different storms, I could see beyond for them, you know, what could be possible on the other side. And I think that helps me to be creative, to

keep trying. Even if one thing failed, I would be like, don't worry, we can try again. Let's try this. I mean, even for my own healing, I had to go through 33 different combinations of medication over the course of 20 years, and I never gave up. Okay, this one didn't work. And of course, each trial would take sometimes

like six, seven months, right, to go through, just to see: is this working? Is this not working? So to go through 33 different combinations, like it took a really long time and it took a huge toll. So I think maybe for me it's like, having gone through that and now having found, you know, the right combination to support me, I really see in others that possibility too. It's like, even if we failed 32 times,

hey, we just gotta keep going, right? It's okay, let's just keep trying. There's always another way. There's always something out there we can try. So I think that really helped.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (46:01.294)

And that speaks to patience on your part, right? Because, you know, I would assume that people after maybe five, six, seven, 10 combinations, it's like, okay, there's nothing that works. But your magic number was 33 to find the right combination for you. And I think that speaks to patience, but also belief that there is a solution.

Yollanda Zhang (46:27.668)

Yeah. And the funny thing is, I really don't think I'm a very patient person. I'm very patient with my students and my clients, but I'm not that patient with myself. And my husband would certainly not describe me as patient. He says I gave all my patience away to other people and left nothing for him, which is probably true. So I don't think I'm patient, really.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (46:34.958)

Hmm.

Yollanda Zhang (46:58.034)

And actually, I think it's my impatience that had me trying, right? Because I'm like, this cannot be the only way. This is not okay. Let me try something else. Right. So yeah, I think that maybe a more accurate reason for what was happening.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (47:29.71)

Can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Yollanda Zhang (47:43.808)

Well, I think I definitely touched on this earlier in different ways, but it is living with bipolar disorder. It really helped me to see that even when bad things happen, they're happening for you and not happening to you. I've heard this quote many times. I did not come up with this. And I think that is so true

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (48:02.446)

Thank you.

Yollanda Zhang (48:13.437)

is to see how something is happening for you, and not to be frustrated or resentful that it's happening. Because staying in frustration or resentment does not allow you to grow, but staying in curiosity and gratitude is actually what can help you to grow.

Yollanda Zhang (48:44.874)

But again, it is not easy to do, and I don't do it 100 percent of the time. I complain a lot. So it's definitely -- you know, it's easier for me to say this looking back on the 20 plus years. But in the moment, of course, I'm like, why is this happening to me? Why am I still sick? Why, after 31 combinations, can I still not find, you know -- but it's only your path. It's only

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (48:47.534)

Mm.

Yollanda Zhang (49:14.518)

when you look backwards, not when you look forward.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (49:38.796)

I just wanted to capture that.

Yollanda Zhang (49:40.95)

Mm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (49:43.832)

Thank you.

Yollanda Zhang (49:45.856)

Yeah, no problem.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (50:00.59)

Okay.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (50:06.702)

You are listening to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Yollanda Zhang. Yollanda, we've talked about your journey from an engineer to being a serial entrepreneur, as you've described yourself. You've talked about

being a teacher and helping a very particular student to be able to stand out in front -- I'm assuming in front of an audience -- and be able to speak. You've talked about your own journey through bipolar, and you've just talked about

going through 33 combinations to finding the right medication that works for you. When you look at your journey, what self-care practices or strategies help you to sustain your energy and motivation?

Yollanda Zhang (51:24.362)

I feel like self-care has now become this overly used word that a lot of people are resisting, right? At least in my world, that's been the case. Like every time you say self-care, people are like, self-care. But I think it's actually really about self-compassion

and practices that support self-compassion. So for me, those practices include paying myself first in the morning with my time and energy. You know, in the past, I would get up, I rush, get my daughter ready, get my dogs walked, like do all these different things, rush, rush, rush, right, to get through the day. And I know that's normal for a lot of people, but

over the past few years I have decided to adopt a way of living my life where in the morning, the first thing I do is actually for myself. If it means I need to wake up a bit earlier, I'll do that. But I always, always meditate in the morning. And that's a non-negotiable routine for me. Even if it's only for 10 minutes. I actually usually try to

meditate for 20 minutes, half an hour in the morning, but sometimes it's just five minutes, 10 minutes -- but I always do that. And even my daughter notices when I don't meditate and I'm kind of crabby, and she'll be like, did you meditate today? Like, did you forget? So for me, I think it's even that intentional step of: I matter, I need to do something to fill my own cup.

So I think for me, that's an important practice that I do. And I recently got trained at the Buddhist College of Canada in sound meditation. So I actually have a sound bowl in front of me all the time that I use just to, like, between my client sessions when I work as a therapist, I just use this to ground myself. And behind that door is actually a sound studio that I've set up with

Yollanda Zhang (53:46.607)

you know, crystal bowls and different sound instruments. So when I need a longer reprieve, I go up there and give myself a sound bath. So mindfulness and meditation is a really, really important part of my own care.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (54:04.908)

Thank you for bringing up sound baths. I gotta tell you, I just discovered sound baths within the last month or so, and I'm addicted. I am truly, truly addicted. I've started listening to sound baths with meditation in the morning with some really cool headphones that I have. And it just envelops me. It just...

Yollanda Zhang (54:09.562)

Yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (54:22.26)

Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (54:32.63)

Like I feel as if I'm in a cocoon. Is that the objective of a sound bath? Is that what it does?

Yollanda Zhang (54:34.996)

Yeah.

Yeah, it really is. I mean, not to be like a nerdy engineer and talk to you about physics, but sound waves are vibrations. And the reason why sound baths are so healing is because sometimes our own bodies' vibrations are out of sync. And so to be in the wave of vibrations that help

with grounding you and bringing you to a state of more calm is why sound healing works. It's actually because of the sound wave nature and the frequencies of the sound bowls.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (55:26.432)

Hmm, thank you. Thank you for giving a little bit of science to that, because I'm loving it. And I ran and found different meditative music and sounds. And so I'm playing around with what is working for me, and I'm really enjoying that process.

Yollanda Zhang (55:36.809)

Yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (55:48.385)

That's so great. Feel free to reach out and ask any questions. I actually run just a free open practice on Sunday nights for friends and family to just join me when I sit in my little studio area to play. So let me know if you're interested. I can definitely share the link with you. It's just like a Zoom session, but I love it because it gives me accountability

to actually go and practice a longer session. I usually do it for myself like five minutes, 10 minutes at most. But when I do it for the group, I usually have a longer sitting -- like 20 minutes, half an hour. So yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:18.243)

Mm-hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:32.152)

Thank you. I will. I'll be in touch. Thank you.

Yollanda Zhang (56:34.228)

Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:37.132)

Yollanda, how might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Yollanda Zhang (56:49.385)

Hmm.

I don't know, I always feel a little bit uncomfortable with the word success, because I really don't see things that I've done as successes. They just felt like things that I did because they came up. I think if anything, sharing my story -- and why I wrote my book even -- is: if only one person heard my story and could feel

that there is possibility for them to have better days than that, I would have succeeded, if you were to use the word success. That would be success for me. But it's not about sharing what I've done. Yeah, I'm not sure if that makes sense. Like I just feel less connected to the word success when it's related to what I've done. But if somebody felt hope

and possibility in hearing my story and my journey, that is success to me.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:00.27)

Thank you. What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Yollanda Zhang (58:13.301)

Hmm.

Actually, I have to ask you a question. Is this the last question? Because I actually booked a venue tour for my book launch that I have to run to, but I don't know if...

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:24.087)

Okay.

Okay, we have -- we can speed up -- we've got one, two, three more, four more questions.

Yollanda Zhang (58:33.812)

Also, because it's going to take me a while to get there as well. Okay. Is it okay to pick one question from what's left? And then we can do, yeah. Okay.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:38.358)

Okay, so tell me what you want to do.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:44.126)

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what exciting opportunities, what book recommendation, what brings you joy? Is there anything else?

Yollanda Zhang (58:53.396)

Maybe exciting opportunities, like what you just asked me, sounds good. Is that okay if we make that our last question? I'm sorry, I booked an hour in my calendar. If I had known it might be longer, I would have.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (58:58.358)

Okay. Alright.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (59:05.197)

Yeah, and we have been talking at length. How about -- let's go to: is there anything else? And that will be our final question. So I'll start over again. Yollanda, thank you for your time as we wind down our conversation. Is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts for us?

Yollanda Zhang (59:09.586)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Yollanda Zhang (59:18.779)

Okay, sure, sure.

Yollanda Zhang (59:23.602)

Okay, sure.

Yollanda Zhang (59:36.2)

Hmm. It has been such a pleasure talking to you. You're such an expert interviewer. I really love the questions. I think for me, you know, if I were to leave anything else with the listeners, I would just say that life throws so many different things at us and it gets really hard. And I just hope that whatever storm you might be navigating in your life that,

you know, just don't lose hope. And I always love this phrase, this quote that says "this too shall pass." And it's so true. Even in my darkest days, I would try to remember that -- this too shall pass. And I put it actually right in my bedroom, and I write it down. And even my daughter started to say this to me when she notices I'm just not doing well, you know, I'm in another

depressive episode. That's what I would say. And also, it's okay to ask for help, and you're not meant to do life alone. And of course, if I could be of support in any way, whether as a therapist or a sounding board, you know, feel free to reach out.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:00:56.098)

Yollanda, I truly appreciate you taking the time to join me on ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and wisdom of people you may know. Yollanda Zhang, thank you so much for being here today.

Yollanda Zhang (01:01:16.201)

Thank you so much for having me. It was such a great, great chat. Thank you.