S3 Ep28. Creativity Saves Lives: Art, Storytelling and the Power of Kindness with Joanna Sell

Joanna Sell joins ABWilson Heart of the Matter for a warm and wide-ranging conversation about creativity, kindness, imagination and the many ways art can support well-being. 

Joanna describes herself as someone who deeply values creativity in everyday life, whether that means experimenting in the kitchen, engaging in creative tasks or  writing, where she says she truly flourishes. She also reflects on the close relationship between creativity and imagination, explaining that the creative process brings something new into the world while remaining rooted in what already exists.

A major theme in the conversation is Joanna’s belief that art has healing power and can help people understand one another across cultures. She shares how her background in art history, her interest in intercultural communication and her professional work all come together in projects designed to use art as a bridge for connection and reflection. 

Joanna also discusses her art-based cards inspired by the PERMA model, which she created to invite positive emotions, engagement and meaningful storytelling through visual art.

The episode also touches on Joanna’s roots in Poland, especially Krakow, a city she describes with deep affection and pride. She speaks about the challenge of discussing her own accomplishments, shaped in part by cultural values of humility and offers a thoughtful example of how success can be understood as helping dreams become reality rather than simply self-promotion. 

Joanna’s story shows how personal history, cultural context and creative practice can shape a life of purpose and contribution.

Listeners will also hear about Joanna’s commitment to experiential learning, relationship building and non-judgmental communication. She shares a memorable story about making an unexpected but important difference in a professional setting, as well as the lessons she learned after overcoming self-doubt around language and belonging early in her career. 

Throughout the episode, Joanna returns to the idea that creativity, when paired with kindness and openness, can transform individual lives and the way we connect in families, communities and across cultures.

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Transcript

Aderonke (00:02.326) Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson. Greetings from Bermuda. My guest on today's show is Joanna Sell. Joanna is creative, kindness, imagination, and she is in Germany. Joanna, welcome to the show.

Aderonke (00:48.054) Joanna, tell me about being creative. Tell me about your creativity, because that is one of the descriptors that you've given to me.

Joanna Sell (01:51.486) So yes, I'm this person who really appreciates creativity a lot. It doesn't really matter whether it's in the kitchen trying out new recipes in daily life or in creative tasks.

Aderonke (02:11.201) Do you have a certain type of creativity that you lean into more than any other?

Joanna Sell (02:21.161) I really love creative writing. I blossom when I do it. Or let's say, not blossom, but flourish — I really like these two English-speaking words describing a similar process, right? Nevertheless, when we talk about people, we mostly use flourishing. So yeah, this is exactly the point. And actually I—

Joanna Sell (03:15.081) —yeah, skills and strength, the better it is for our well-being. So when we, for example, play an instrument from notes,

Aderonke (03:55.315) And so you've mentioned imagination. Tell me about that. Tell me how your imagination works.

Aderonke (05:35.648) Hmm. Thank you so much. And so I would think your imagination and creativity go hand in hand, right? And that they fuel each other. Can you talk about that?

Joanna Sell (05:54.647) Definitely, they fuel each other. So when we think of the creative process, it's actually really interesting, because it's making something new; however, this novelty is still rooted in something that already exists. So when we, for example, think of all the chimeras, Pegasus — I don't know, whatever monsters we can imagine—

Aderonke (07:17.761) Yes, indeed. Thank you. And your third descriptor, kindness. Tell me about your kindness.

Joanna Sell (07:48.263) —in many contexts, in the situation in general. They are not satisfied with their lives, and this is mirrored in communication. So the more aggressive people become, the more important it is to react with kindness and not with aggression. And I guess this is also something that we need to keep in mind right now, because, you know, I always—

Aderonke (09:30.957) Mm.

Aderonke (09:35.233) Thank you. Thank you for sharing your three descriptors. And so please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know, and your friends will be surprised to learn.

Joanna Sell (09:51.331) —then my friends will be even surprised to learn. Okay, so for years and years I've been trying to find the intersection between creativity and arts, because my very first studies were in art history — the beautiful university in Kraków, where I really, you know, have kind of nostalgia still. And—

Joanna Sell (11:39.891) —that art has got, not only, you know, this healing effect and has got a very positive influence on our well-being, but also can contribute to better understanding across cultures. So this would be number one. Number two is that I don't have any bucket list — I simply go with the flow.

Joanna Sell (13:15.434) But then, all in all, I said to myself, okay, I will send my proposal and see what happens. And you know, I was really thrilled when it got accepted. So this is what I mean — that sometimes we need to help our dreams come true. Yeah, just to put our imposter syndrome aside and to say, wow, let's see it as an experiment, and if it works, perfect.

Joanna Sell (13:52.143) —maybe this issue with traveling and really going to different art collections, that many people, you know, just say — it can be a little bit tiring, it can be a little bit too crowded, too messy, and so on and so forth.

Aderonke (14:37.612) Hmm.

Joanna Sell (15:50.153) —and it would be too boring. So when we went to Neuschwanstein in Germany, I told my daughter a fairy tale about Beauty and the Beast, yeah. So, you know, there were always some moments when she really looked at beautiful pieces of art through the lens of fairy tales. And I guess, you know, when you think about this approach, it's not so weird any—

Aderonke (16:13.439) Hmm.

Aderonke (16:26.561) So Joanna, I just want to go back to your first response, where you talked about creativity, art, and intercultural communications, and you mentioned Krakow. Tell me about being a Krakow native. And I know that you were born in Poland. So let's talk about that a little.

Joanna Sell (16:47.05) Yeah. So Krakow is one of the most beautiful towns, not only in Poland but in Europe. It's completely underestimated, unfortunately. When I think of my many U.S. American friends, you know, whenever they travel to Europe they mostly travel to Western European countries and cities, right? So Krakow is this—

Joanna Sell (17:52.935) —that is dominating the hill in the heart of the town. You've got a beautiful marketplace with wonderful houses around, many—

Joanna Sell (19:33.777) —to this park and to go around. It's really beautiful. This idea, as I said, was completed for the very first time in Vienna, and Krakow has got lots of these influences from Vienna as well. So this is really fantastic. And by the way, it's just, you know, one of these places where you walk around and you feel history. You really feel—

Aderonke (20:58.335) So I'm gonna ask you a geography question — a question that, you know, I just need to ask, because my geography is terrible. How close is Poland to Vienna? Are you neighbors? Are you nearby? Just give me a little bit about geography.

Joanna Sell (21:16.694) Yeah, yeah, sure. So we are not direct neighbors — between us there are two countries, Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. Nevertheless, from Krakow to Vienna you travel within, I think, three hours, because these two countries are really, you know, not as wide — it's south of Poland. So yeah, so this proximity is very, very big, also the cultural proximity actually, because when Europe — or let's say, let's put it this way — European countries, Prussia, the Habsburg monarchy, and Russia divided Poland between these three countries—

Aderonke (23:00.321) Thank you. Thank you for that history and cultural lesson, I appreciate it. Can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Joanna Sell (23:17.641) Wow, I'm not really good at talking about accomplishments. And I have thought about it, because, you know, I've been working in the cultural field for a long time, and I actually have a good reason. In Poland, people are, let's say, growing up in this manner: don't show off, don't talk about career. What is actually career? Everybody has got a job, but what do you mean by career? Maybe right now it has changed a little bit because of celebrities, so there's a little bit different narration nowadays. Nevertheless, I remember that I really struggled, and it's much easier to talk about accomplishments in English than in Polish — in Polish, I'm not so sure if I'd be able to share it on the podcast, because what is really appreciated is being humble. So when I think of accomplishments, it's again a little bit of, you know, just the idea of making dreams come true. I once saw such a beautiful definition of success by Maya Angelou.

Joanna Sell (25:42.108) And you also know it — these are the cards I designed, inspired by the PERMA model from positive psychology by Martin Seligman, where you have the pieces of art on one side and, on the reverse side, corresponding questions — questions, or also invitations, to share a story inspired by those artworks. And what is really interesting is that, of course, it was a really interesting process.

Joanna Sell (27:39.006) So the P stands for positive emotions, and actually it was the easiest one, because we've got plenty of pieces of art that can trigger positive emotions. So I said, wow, this is cool, I will find lots of inspiration. Then we've got E, that stands for engagement, and this is also really fascinating, because when I think of engagement, I immediately—

Joanna Sell (29:36.572) —mostly what is recognized as the canon shows white people, so it's not representative. So it took lots of time and effort to also find different pieces of art, not only in terms of diversity but also to make sure they are painted by women artists and not only by men.

Joanna Sell (30:37.897) This is where I also had to be a little bit more inventive, so I had to think more, especially when I considered the questions and invitations to share stories regarding acknowledgment. And here we are going back to your question — that it's not, let's say, the state that is very natural, and just to also—

Joanna Sell (31:32.886) —group dependence and orientation, where the acknowledgment is actually shared with other people. Yeah. So it's not so much about me, me, me, but us that have accomplished something. So yeah, the card is really, in my case, about also standing on the shoulders of many people who made it actually happen, you know — that I was able to get to know this artwork, not only during studies, but—

Aderonke (32:29.527) So, Joanna, first of all, let me say congratulations to you on creating the cards. I saw firsthand how you used them while we were in Costa Rica at the Gross Global Happiness Conference, and you got the group in your session to select a card, an image that was meaningful to them. And the card that I selected spoke — excuse me.

Aderonke (33:23.757) The card that I selected spoke to me on many levels, because I recognized it as ancient European art. And when I turned it over, I was correct, because you cite the art and where it's from and where it's currently housed. I truly appreciated how you use the cards to get people to talk to and interact with each other. And so I will say you inspired me to create my own cards using my own artwork from my calendars. I want to absolutely acknowledge the beauty of that — I'm holding up the card so that you can see which one I'm referring to. And I know that, since Costa Rica, you and I have talked about the cards, and I've picked your brain on how you created them. So — do you, are they for sale? Can people buy these cards from you? How can they find them?

Aderonke (35:18.549) And do you ship around the world?

Aderonke (35:26.143) And so I just want to reiterate how much I appreciated your card, and the fact that I still have it and carry it around with me in my day planner as a reminder of that experience I had, and how your use of art — intercultural art and cross-cultural art — helped me to see—

Aderonke (35:53.144) —think slightly differently. And the perspective I have, in first of all picking a piece of art that I recognized instinctively, but also being able to share my thoughts with the partner I had about the art — because you got us to say why we picked that, what drew us to that piece — and then answer the question on the back of the card. So thank you, I will always say thank you for that exercise, because it gave me an opportunity to think about how I use my art to further extend how I see the world through my camera to others.

Joanna Sell (36:36.765) Yeah, and I love it, I love it. When you shared your pictures with me — I'm the happy owner of your calendar — it was one of the most beautiful presents from Costa Rica, apart from coffee. But yes, it's just amazing, you have such a creative attitude, to look at ordinary things in a completely surprising way.

Aderonke (37:09.863) Thank you. Thank you so much. And Joanna, please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Joanna Sell (37:53.397) And it was, mm, I don't know, maybe two years after the pandemic. We had this session in Vienna, and at one point he said to me, you know, Joanna—

Joanna Sell (39:42.111) —yeah, to have a consensus in the group at the team level, yes, but individually it's a little bit tricky. And I was thinking how to access this knowledge in such a way that it's memorable and clear to him — however, he doesn't have to, you know, just feel kind of, I don't know—

Joanna Sell (41:52.415) So he actually, within three seconds, made it happen that we were not having an afternoon session but, the next day, the entire morning until twelve o'clock. And I looked at him, and it was exactly the moment when I told him, wow, look what has just happened. What has just happened proves that both of us are extremely privileged. You've got—

Joanna Sell (43:59.315) And I guess this was, you know, this moment when I noticed that sometimes we don't really need more cognitive input and knowledge, because it wouldn't bring us any further. We need this experiential learning just to feel what it actually means, and in what position we are in life. Are we flexible? What does leadership actually mean in this case, and so on.

Aderonke (44:33.087) And did he get it? Did he get the point, as you demonstrated it for him?

Joanna Sell (44:39.186) Definitely, definitely. He started to laugh. He said, "My god, this, of course, doesn't have anything to do with culture — it has everything to do with, you know, just safety, yeah." And such regulations give them safety, definitely, yes. Hmm. So it was really a very interesting experience there.

Aderonke (45:10.081) What were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference in this situation?

Joanna Sell (45:51.855) —working in such a way. Nevertheless, I remember when I started such projects, it was a little bit intimidating. So, actually, I'd encourage — you know, just — not to, let's say, again give the cognitive input, which is what they await, but make them feel what something might, yes, feel like to other people. It's risky.

Joanna Sell (46:35.548) Because, you know, from the very beginning, I was surprised that he opened his calendar and was ready to reschedule this session. If he had told me, hey, forget it, it wouldn't have worked, right? So maybe also this relationship-building as well, and sense of humor. I think that we are too serious — we are honestly too serious in corporate life, you know.

Aderonke (47:45.495) Thank you. Joanna, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Joanna Sell (48:11.428) Because during my school time — at high school and also during my studies — I learned all the other languages from Western European countries except German. So I guess the issue with language was a very important one, because, for example, during my high school time I learned English and French. I continued with these two languages during my studies, and also Latin.

Joanna Sell (49:37.939) I saw the possibility to have an internship at the TV channel Arte — it's a European channel in Strasbourg. Back then it was bicultural; I mean, they called themselves European, but nevertheless they broadcast everything in either German or French, or, yes, with subtitles.

Joanna Sell (50:52.252) And what actually happened was that, in this offer, they wrote that they were searching for candidates who spoke either French or German at the native level — so, use it as their mother tongue. In my case, neither, nor.

Joanna Sell (51:47.125) And it was the "yes" moment when I again had to somehow overcome my idea of "not good enough," yeah.

Aderonke (53:28.395) Joanna, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. You are listening to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter.

Aderonke (53:43.394) Welcome back to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Joanna Sell. Joanna, we have talked about creativity, we have looked at what kindness means to you, how you use your imagination, and, quite frankly, how the three combine together. The first thing you said to me when we came on was, "Creativity saves lives." We've also touched on when you first moved to Germany, where you live now — you're originally from Poland — and how you look at the intersection of creativity, art, and intercultural communications. And for you, what I got was the sense that, as a person from Poland, it's difficult for you to talk about your own successes, even if you had to talk about it in your own language, and you find it easier to speak about your successes in English. Joanna, when you look at yourself — what is important to you? What self-care practices or strategies help you sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Joanna Sell (55:32.496) It's one of the conditios in Ecpanon. So yes, as human beings, we are kind of used to spending our time in buildings; nevertheless, we are created for nature and not for staying inside all the time. So yes, nature is one of the most important sources of energy as well, and definitely art.

Aderonke (57:01.441) How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

Joanna Sell (57:41.268) While going to different art collections. So this is something that they simply learned with me, with people I have projects with. What I think, regarding the feedback, is that they say, in unison, that they have no idea how it's possible, but they don't know where the time went during our program.

Joanna Sell (59:34.49) This methodology is called World Café — or, let's say, not World Café, but, in this case, Story Café. And, of course, in the Story Café, just like in the World Café, you can have different themes at the different tables, and people move around and contribute to, you know, the answers from the previous group, and so on and so forth. In the Story Café—

Joanna Sell (01:01:33.844) —and not necessarily enjoyment. And with these questions — what we actually can control, what we can stop telling, start telling, and continue telling — we become authors. We become the creators of our worlds. And I guess this is really very empowering. It doesn't have to be exactly this question when we talk among friends — yeah, it shouldn't be a coaching session — but sometimes such a question, hey, so what do you actually want to stop doing so that you feel better, can be a real eye-opener.

Aderonke (01:01:54.957) Mm.

Aderonke (01:02:19.181) Mm, thank you. I like that — I'm familiar with World Café, and so I like the change in terms of telling stories, right? Because then we get to hear, around that table, the various stories that people want to start, stop, or continue. So thank you, thank you for that. Yeah, I think that gives people a different voice and a different perspective as they move. What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

Joanna Sell (01:03:39.2) Innovative ideas regarding sharing and spreading well-being through the arts. I guess what hasn't been used so far, or not to a big extent, is also to use these spaces, and also to use art to spread this positive communication across cultures — that we can actually use artworks as a starting point to practice non-judgmental communication.

Aderonke (01:05:22.953) Hmm. Thank you. Joanna, what brings you joy?

Joanna Sell (01:05:31.005) What brings me joy? Sun, sunny weather — every single autumn I'm depressed because the sun is missing. Joy — I'm joking right now, yes, but definitely the opportunity to discover the world, also, so to travel. I really love traveling, it brings me lots of joy. Time with people — it brings plenty of joy — not only my family but also my friends, and also new persons, you know. When I go back in my memories to the conference, there were really fantastic discussions with just newly met people. Macarons and salted caramel ice cream and strawberries — I really love strawberries, right now it's strawberry season so I'm very joyful — and nice fragrances. I guess this is really the issue, you know, I have neglected for a long time.

Aderonke (01:07:43.64) Thank you. I just want to go back and circle travel and say you're more than welcome to come visit me in Bermuda. That's a standing open invitation, and I just want to throw that out there. What book recommendation do you have? It can be a book you've read recently or something that has stayed with you over the years. And I'm going to encourage you to share your book again.

Joanna Sell (01:08:00.488) Thank you.

Joanna Sell (01:08:12.303) Okay, so — my book, last but not least — The Art of Storytelling Across Cultures.

Joanna Sell (01:09:51.443) —how we can actually, yes, be more conscious about designing our own lives. So yes, as I said, this book, The Art of Storytelling Across Cultures, which I wrote two years ago, wouldn't have been possible without these two women. Yeah.

Aderonke (01:10:14.549) Hmm. Joanna, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for talking about your perspective. Okay, go ahead.

Joanna Sell (01:10:23.602) Jean S. Ward, sorry — yeah. And the other book, by Jean S. Ward from South Africa, Reauthoring the World.

Aderonke (01:10:36.941) Okay. All right. Joanna, thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing your perspective on art, culture, storytelling. Thank you for saying yes to being on the show today. Is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Aderonke (01:11:23.959) Thank you. Thank you for being here. I just want to go back over some of the appreciation nuggets that I'm taking away from our conversation. I'll repeat the very first thing you said when we started — you said creativity saves lives, and, as I quote, I think I'm going to let that sit with me for a while — art has a healing effect, and it contributes to better understanding between cultures. That's something you said during our talk. I also want to touch on the Story Café, how you're able to bring people together around stories — what stories do you want to keep telling that serve us? What stories do you want to stop telling that no longer serve us? And what stories do you want to start telling? I think hearing people's stories, and helping people to connect, is the essence of the podcast, but it also gives people an opportunity to hear others and really appreciate part of their journey. Thank you for taking the time to join me on ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and the wisdom of people you may know. Joanna Sell, thank you so much for being here today.

Joanna Sell (01:13:16.467) Thank you, thank you very much, Aderonke. I appreciate your wonderful hosting skills. Thank you.

A couple of flagged spots I left untouched rather than guess at: "Gross Global Happiness Conference" and "one of the conditios in Ecpanon" — both sound like they may be mis-transcribed proper nouns/terms, but I didn't want to alter meaning without knowing the intended words. Let me know if you'd like me to take a pass at those, or if you'd like this as a downloadable Word doc.