S3 Ep29. What It Means to Live Fully: A Conversation with Kashonna Marrow

In this episode of ABWilson’s Heart of the Matter, Kashonna Marrow shares a thoughtful and deeply personal conversation about joy, calling, growth, and the power of self-awareness. She describes herself as happy, joyous, open, and approachable, and explains that joy, for her, is not dependent on outside circumstances but anchored in faith and cultivated through intention.

Kashonna reflects on the importance of staying open to change, people, and new opportunities, even when discomfort shows up. She speaks candidly about learning to lean into curiosity instead of shutting down, and about creating a sense of safety and trust for others through approachability, active listening, and genuine care. Her work as a speaker, coach, and training and development leader is rooted in helping people feel seen, heard, and supported.

The conversation also highlights Kashonna’s adventurous side, from skydiving and zip lining to her red belt in taekwondo, as well as her love of dreaming big and seeing what is possible. She shares how seeing her long-held dreams come to life has strengthened her faith and confidence, especially in her work and travels. These stories bring out her playful, determined spirit and her belief that life is meant to be fully lived.

A major theme of the episode is personal growth through challenge. Kashonna opens up about the lessons she learned through divorce, therapy, and faith, explaining how digging into the root causes of pain helped her change the fruit in her life. She speaks honestly about boundaries, forgiveness, and the need to stop carrying emotional weight that blocks peace, creativity, and progress.

Throughout the episode, Kashonna emphasizes that her business is about people, purpose, and impact. After 14 years in business, she continues to show up with commitment because she sees her work as a calling, not just a passion. Her reflections on self-care, harmony, seasons of life, and the importance of saying no offer listeners practical wisdom for staying grounded while serving others.

https://www.abwilsonconsulting.com

https://abwilsonphotography.com

Transcript

Aderonke (00:00.916) Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, my name is Aderonke Bademosi Wilson. Greetings from Bermuda. My guest on today's show is Kashonna Marrow. Kashonna is happy and joyous, open, approachable. Kashonna, welcome to the show.

Kashonna Marrow (00:36.28) Thank you so much, Aderonke, for having me. I am so excited about being here and always count it a privilege and an honor to be able to share something that can help someone else become a little bit better in their life, both personally and professionally. So thank you so much for having me.

Aderonke (00:51.936) So Kashonna, I wanna start with your adjectives. You describe yourself as happy, joyous. Tell me about that. What does that look like for you?

Kashonna Marrow (01:03.672) Well, I I I had to say that one first because I think that for the most part, I have worked to be a happy, or a person full of joy. And we know that the happy part of it can be a little conditional because of course things externally kind of impact that. But the joy on the inside of me is definitely something that I've had to work, if you will, to achieve — and not only to achieve but to maintain, because it is an ongoing process. And the joy that I have is something that is not predicated upon what's going on externally, but it's something that is always happening on the inside, that is stable, that's anchored in my faith. So I am so grateful that I can say I am definitely a person of joy. I have, you know, the opportunity to work with people, and I think that when you work with people from different backgrounds and different cultures, you have to have something that anchors you. And joy is one of those things that does.

Aderonke (02:02.055) So Kashonna, I'm gonna come back to joy, because that's one of my questions towards the end of our conversation, and I'm gonna ask us to explore that a little bit more. But until we get to that point, tell me about being open. What does that look like for you?

Kashonna Marrow (02:20.75) So when I say I'm open, I believe that it is important to always be in a place of evolution. And what I mean by that is you're always changing, you're always growing, you're always becoming — that's what the "ing" on the end of those words means. It's an evolving thing. And so when I talk about being open, I really, really hold myself to the standard of making sure that I don't close myself off from change. I don't close myself off from people who are different than me. I don't close myself off from opportunities that I may not have ever explored before. I want to stay open because, again, I want to continue to grow. I want to continue to evolve. And that does require a level of openness.

Aderonke (03:10.965) So how do you do that? I know when I'm confronted with situations that don't necessarily agree with me, inside or outside, I'm like, okay, I need to remove myself, I need to stop. And I will on occasion just shut down. And I've heard, you know, lean into the challenge, lean into the conflict or difficulty. But I'm challenged with that. So how do you do that?

Kashonna Marrow (03:43.224) You know, I think it's really important to be self-aware — to know that you are being challenged, to know that this is something different, and there is a level of discomfort. And when you are self-aware, it allows you to step back and assess it and ask yourself why. Why am I challenged with this? What makes me feel like I am immovable in this particular situation? And once you do that, then you can ask yourself the question of which way will I go. Will I be open or will I be closed? Will I just stand my ground and say, nope, this is not what I'm accepting — nope, nope, nope, this is non-negotiable? Or will I say, hmm, I've never explored this, it doesn't feel good, but it feels different and I'm curious? And so I allow myself to lean into the curiosity.

Aderonke (04:33.606) Hmm. Okay, thank you. And being approachable — tell me about that. What does that look like?

Kashonna Marrow (04:39.873) Well, again, I think that kind of really ties into the openness. I wanna make sure that people feel a sense of safety when they're with me. And me being who I am — in terms of a speaker, a coach, and a training and development leader — that is a characteristic that I think is necessary if you're going to be effective in people's lives, especially as a coach. People need to feel like they're safe with you, and I wanna be approachable, from the standpoint of not only safety but understanding how important it is to be a person who knows how to hold things in confidence. And so in order to do that, the first step is to make sure that people can at least say hello to you and you return the greeting, to make sure that you smile at people and make sure that they know that you are an open person and you're willing to hear what they have to say. Also, just making sure that I'm listening. And, you know, Aderonke — Aderonke, Aderonke. I keep saying that wrong. I wanna transpose letters, so please forgive me, Aderonke. Sometimes I wanna just kinda shut down and say, you know, I don't feel like it, or whatever the case may be. But the truth of the matter is, people are the heart of who I am. And because people are the heart of who I am, I remain open.

Aderonke (05:43.375) Aderonke, Aderonke.

Aderonke (05:49.578) Yeah.

Aderonke (06:00.341) Mm-hmm.

Kashonna Marrow (06:03.987) And I do the best I can to make sure that people are not only seen but heard.

Aderonke (06:14.065) Is it difficult for somebody who's perhaps an introvert to be able to approach somebody that's more open? Or should a person who's more open be the instigator — go up and say, hey, how are you, what's going on?

Kashonna Marrow (06:33.837) I think that if you are the person who is the extrovert, so to speak, it is helpful to invite that person into the conversation. It is important to give that person permission to speak with you. And that's why openness is so very important, approachability is so very important, because not everyone is that person who says, let me start the conversation, let me initiate the conversation. You have to be able to really, really know how to bring people in, to journey along with you, to invite them into conversation. All of those things are definitely important. So to be socially aware enough to see those introverts, to know or see people who are not in the conversation and invite them in, is not only self-awareness — I think it's kind of a gift, really, that is needed in everyday people, but also especially in people who are in business and in professional environments.

Aderonke (07:38.879) So Kashonna, sorry — Kashonna, please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know and your friends will be surprised to hear.

Kashonna Marrow (07:57.394) My friends will be surprised to hear it — those who are in my immediate circle know me pretty well. But my listeners would probably be a little surprised to know that I am a red belt in taekwondo, so that is pretty surprising for people. Also, I am very adventurous — I love, love, love doing things that are just kind of a little bit scary, you know. Sometimes I've been skydiving, zip-lining, hot air ballooning — all of the things that people say I'm absolutely crazy for. And the third thing — not yet, not yet, it's the string, it's the string. The string is throwing me off.

Aderonke (08:36.575) Have you done bungee jumping?

Kashonna Marrow (08:48.469) The string is throwing me off. I can't get past the string. If I can get past the string, I'm working — I can do it. But I can't get past it.

Aderonke (09:00.693) Well, let me just share a little secret — I have done none of those things. None of those things appeal to the adrenaline-inducing part of me. I just can't. I just know I'll be the person having the heart attack on my way there, and I haven't even started yet — I'm on my way there.

Kashonna Marrow (09:25.133) Listen, you would be surprised, you would be surprised. You know, you just need a dose of adrenaline. If you could just get it for about five seconds and just do it, you just jump into it. So that —

Aderonke (09:39.997) Okay, we'll take that offline. Okay, and please share the third thing with me, please.

Kashonna Marrow (09:43.458) Yeah.

Kashonna Marrow (09:46.861) Okay, the third thing — my gosh, I had a struggle with this one 'cause I'm like, okay, these are two things that people probably don't know. But that third thing — I don't think people know that I enjoy... you know what, this is gonna kinda throw you off — I enjoy dreaming. Like, I enjoy dreaming and the excitement of what could be. I'm the visionary, the "this could be amazing" type. And so I'm able to really see beyond what I see, and that excites me — not only in my own life, but in the life of others.

Aderonke (10:43.839) Can you give me some examples of some of the dreams that you've had, and the dreams that have come to fruition?

Kashonna Marrow (10:52.556) Oh my goodness. We are off script and I love it. Okay, let's see here. So when I think about some of the dreams that I've had — like, I've always dreamed of being able to travel and work. That was my dream when I was a young girl. I just wanted to be able to get on a plane and go from place to place and do the things that I do. I just always wanted to do that. And here I am, doing that and loving every bit of it. As a matter of fact, I had a childhood friend reach out to me and say, "Kashonna, remember when we used to say this is what we wanted to do?" She said, "I see you doing it, and it is absolutely incredible." So let me tell you, when someone says that, it does something to your heart and it does something to your faith too. Because when you see things actually happen that you've been dreaming about, it activates you even more. There's a deeper and a greater level of confidence that you walk in and say, yeah, you know what, I can do this. I can do this. And that has been my superpower — to have that confidence of knowing that if it doesn't happen today, I'm not moved by that, because I'm trusting that it will happen in due time.

Aderonke (12:16.925) Thank you for sharing. And I just wanna go back to taekwondo red belt — what is that? Is that the highest level you can get in taekwondo?

Kashonna Marrow (12:28.02) No, absolutely not. I have a few more belts to go. So I am slowly but surely getting there. My husband will say, okay, it's gonna take you some years, so just calm down. But I'm a high achiever — I wanna do this, let's go, let's get me to that black belt. The black belt is the highest belt, and then there are degrees of the black belt. I'm not quite there yet, but almost, almost. I'm on a journey. I'm on a journey.

Aderonke (13:00.373) Thank you so much for sharing. Can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

Kashonna Marrow (13:03.251) Absolutely.

Kashonna Marrow (13:11.242) You know, honestly, I believe that when I talk about recent success, my ability to remain a business owner is successful. I don't think we talk about that enough — the fact that you are still here and own a business is incredible. And I am just so delighted in myself. Girl, you are doing this yet again — kudos to you. So I have to really remind myself that I am still in the game. It's not just a recent accomplishment, it's an ongoing accomplishment that I've hung in there and did not throw in the towel, as I have wanted to do so many times. But I believe it's because I realize that what I do is not driven by passion, it's driven by call. There's a difference, right? When I'm passionate about something, it's an emotion — and as I tell my coaching clients, passion is temporary, emotions are temporary. But when you are called to something, I don't care how frustrated you get, I don't care how angry, I don't care how much you just wanna give up — when you're called to it, it keeps you waking up in the morning and keeps you going, saying, you know what, this is what I'm supposed to be doing with my life, this is my purpose. And that is something that I am truly proud of, but I'm also honored to do.

Aderonke (14:58.229) So two questions from that: tell me about your business, and then how do you keep that flame alive — that call — even when days are difficult and you have to find a way to dig deep? How are you able to do that?

Kashonna Marrow (15:21.6) Let me tell you, it's very much a challenge sometimes. I believe the glitz and glamour of owning a business is overrated, and we don't really get into the grit of it — the frustration, and really talk about the willingness to just throw it all in the trash at some point. It's like, I just don't want to deal with it. But when I think about people — and I love people, and I think that's a gift in this day and time, honestly, because I don't know if people really like people like that — but I do, and I have been called to work with people. So the whole crux of my business is about helping people become better. What keeps me going is that this is not about me, it's about the people I have the opportunity to serve. It's helping people to understand what lies in them. And when you know that what you have gives people access to what they have in them — that's the fuel, that's the fuel. I am a woman of faith too, so that definitely helps me understand my call, my purpose, and helps me get up in the morning and do what I need to do to make sure that I hang in there. And I'm also aware of the times that I don't have it, 'cause I don't have it every day. And that's okay too. I've had to embrace that. I've said, you know, I just don't feel like — I love people, but I don't like them today. You know.

Aderonke (17:23.645) Yeah.

Kashonna Marrow (17:25.117) And so I've had to understand that and give myself grace for that. I learned how to say, yeah, today is just not your day, and be okay with that. And when I learned how to allow myself that space to just sit, or just be still, or take a nap, or not tune in and not engage —

Aderonke (17:35.603) Hmm.

Kashonna Marrow (17:52.902) — then that's when everything begins. I begin to find my rhythm and operate in my harmony, because I don't believe that there's balance necessarily — I believe that there's this space of harmony that you have to find. There's always one thing playing louder than the other in your life, always. So you have to know what season you're in — that's another thing. I honor my season, I honor wherever I am, and say, yeah, I know that I was able to run until one, two o'clock in the morning back then. But now, the way my life is set up, I'm in bed at eight-thirty, nine o'clock, and I don't apologize for that. I don't apologize. I'm like, yeah, I'm tired, I'm tired, I've been doing too much all day. So I've given myself the grace that's needed for that, and I'm okay with that.

Aderonke (18:33.001 / 18:47.539) How long have you been in business?

Kashonna Marrow (18:50.761) I have been in business now for fourteen years. Fourteen years, full-time business.

Aderonke (19:00.413) And how can people find you if they're interested in working with you?

Kashonna Marrow (19:04.683) So if they're interested in working with me, there are two ways you can find me. Let me tell you a little bit about what I do, and that'll give you some background as to how to find me. I am a speaker, a coach — a professional and life coach — and I'm also a training and development leader. So from that angle, if they're looking for me for speaking opportunities — they want me to come in and charge up their team members, or come in and really shift their leadership and make sure they're developed and engaging with their team members, and this type of engagement I teach really helps the organization as a whole — from that corporate aspect, they can find me at LeadersMoveForward.org, LeadersMoveForward.com. If you're wanting me to come in from the speaking standpoint — still doing a little bit of the same thing, but you just want me to come in and charge them up and make sure they're engaged and ignited to do what I need them to do — or you're saying, I need a coach because I'm kind of stuck in this place and I don't know how to get out, I need a little push — then you want to reach me at SimplyKashonna, that's my first name — Simply, first name — SimplyKashonna.com. SimplyKashonna.com. And I'm on all social media handles, you can always find me there. Just Google me, you'll find me.

Aderonke (20:37.333) Kashonna, thank you so much for sharing. Please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

Kashonna Marrow (20:45.673) Yeah. Let's see.

Kashonna Marrow (20:54.731) Honestly, that's what I do — I make a difference in people's lives. Whether it's coaching, speaking, or training and development, all three of those elements of my business have to do with impacting people's lives. And it's not just professional, even though that may be the thing I come in on — I'm swinging in on the professional hook here — but there's always something personal that needs to be addressed for people to show up as greater professionals. So when I think about some things I've done to really impact people's lives — countless times I've been able to coach someone one-on-one, where they've been stuck and worked with me, and because of the coaching method I have, they're able to determine whether they really want to go in one direction or the other, or they may have thought they wanted to go in one direction and found out it wasn't everything it was cracked up to be. And I've been able to help them see that. That's important too, because when you're doing this work and people start discovering who they are and where they are in life, they're like, "I thought I wanted that, but I don't think I want that — that's a little bit much for where I am right now." And I'm like, good — I have done my job. Sometimes we take it personal as coaches, like, "Well, I thought you wanted to start this big business, and I was coaching you to do this," and people get halfway through it and they're like, man, this is not what I thought it was. So my biggest accomplishments have not just been seeing people achieve the goals they desire, but also seeing people shift from the goals they thought they desired. That's a big win for me — when I see that they've made that decision because they've thought it through, and now they understand it's not about the glitz and glamour. Again, it's not about the passion, it's about the call.

Aderonke (23:13.023) Thank you. When you think about the way you've helped people make a shift, what were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference?

Kashonna Marrow (23:15.283) Absolutely.

Kashonna Marrow (23:28.604) Listening. I believe you have to be a good listener to make sure you're helping people discover what it is they need in that particular time. So based on what I'm hearing, I ask questions based on that, and those questions dig deeper. If I stay on the surface and give you what you think you need, it's not gonna last. But if I start asking questions based on the information you've shared with me, then we go deeper. I'm a firm believer in going deeper instead of wider. If we go deeper, we begin to uncover where you really are and what you really want — versus going wider, where it's kind of like the foundation isn't sure, and if the foundation isn't sure, everything you build is gonna fall apart. So listening — actively listening — is the key component I make sure I utilize when I'm working with people.

Aderonke (24:38.717) Hmm, that sounds wonderful, it really does. Kashonna, can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

Kashonna Marrow (24:44.426) Thank you.

Kashonna Marrow (24:54.99) Let's try divorce. Divorce taught me some stuff. Divorce was one of those lessons that I didn't want, but it had to happen so I could learn even more about myself. I've gone through divorce twice in my life, and at each point I think I've learned a lot about me — I've learned a lot about me. It's kind of like, forget the other person and what they've done — what's going on here? And so really digging into that and saying, wow, this needs to change, I don't like this, what's going on here? I had to dig even deeper because I was seeing a lot of fruit that was based on my root. So I had to really dig deep into the root and say, why am I doing this, why am I accepting this, why am I thinking like this, why do I think this is okay? And once I was able to do that, that forced me to treat the root so I could have better fruit.

Aderonke (26:23.861) How did you treat the root? What does that look like in real, practical terms?

Kashonna Marrow (26:29.482) Therapy. Listen — get you some faith and a therapist. That's exactly what I did. I am a believer, so I had to dig into my faith and I also had to get a therapist. I don't think it's one or the other, you have both — if you want to be a better person, and that was me. I wanted to be a better person. I did not want to go around masking the hurt and the pain and the trauma I had experienced. When we're growing and developing, we have a lot of unhealed trauma that comes with us — it comes with us into our next relationship, into our jobs, everywhere. It's like a bag you're carrying on an airplane — you pack it nicely, put it on the plane, and as long as it fits, you're good to go to the next destination. And I didn't want that. I said something has to shift here. That's exactly what I leaned into — I went deeper instead of wider. I understood that my "deeper" required more than I could give it on my own, so I began to seek help and uncover all the stuff I didn't even realize was there. It changed everything, it changed everything about me — which is why I'm so adamant about saying, yeah, you may want to build a business, you may want to advance in your career, but let's be honest, some of this stuff you can't do unless you work on you. You've got to become a better you. Confidence doesn't just come because you want to be confident — you can be confident and nasty. But if I can teach you to be confident and humble —

Kashonna Marrow (28:22.631) — then we're going somewhere. So I had to understand that the stuff I was carrying along with me was impacting my business, impacting other relationships, impacting everything. And when I really started to dig, get to the root, and treat those roots, I started seeing something totally different. And for that I'm grateful.

Aderonke (28:47.945) Thank you so much for sharing. A lot of times — I want to tell you this story from years and years ago. I remember I was driving to work, it had to be about thirty years ago now, maybe more, and a gentleman was on the radio — I think he was a local minister here in Bermuda — and one of the things he said is, don't get a divorce until you settle the reasons why you're getting a divorce. And listening to you reminded me of that — that once you're able to dig deep and find what is causing this — where am I, personally? You can't, and oftentimes you can't look at the other person, because you have no access to them. The only person you have access to is yourself, and the only person you can change is yourself. So I appreciated hearing about you going deeper and being able to explore, because a lot of people can't — they feel it's somebody else who needs to change, somebody else who needs to fix themselves, and once that's done, we're perfect. But if we carry a lot of the same behaviors into our next relationship at some point, surely —

Kashonna Marrow (29:44.51) Yes.

Aderonke (30:11.753) You have to say, what am I bringing?

Kashonna Marrow (30:15.869) Yeah, absolutely. We keep trying to represent the same "us" to different people, hoping it'll help, or hoping we'll get some different result. But at some point, the real you shows up. And when the real you shows up, it may look different in terms of the manifestation, but it's still the same stuff. And that digging deeper is helpful — not just in your personal life, but in your professional life too. Because when you're working with people, working with businesses, building relationships becomes a thing, or it should be a thing. How can you build a business without relationships? That's why companies and organizations spend so much money on meals and entertainment — that's probably one of the biggest parts of the budget, because we're constantly building relationships, constantly wanting people to trust us. But people want others to trust them without trusting themselves. You don't trust you — so how do you want me to trust you? How does that work? We have to really begin to dig and ask ourselves these questions so we can become better people. If you become a better person, you can be a better coworker, a better business owner, a better wife, a better mother, a better daughter, a better sister — whatever the case may be. But get to know you. Get to know you. Spend some time with yourself.

Aderonke (32:17.127) You are listening to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter podcast.

Welcome back to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Kashonna Marrow. Kashonna, we have talked extensively, first of all, about your adventurous side and the fact that you've done a lot of adrenaline-producing activities, except one — there's one you still haven't tried, which is bungee jumping. One of the things you said is that people are at the heart of who you are. You've talked about dreaming and what that looks like, and being able to accomplish the dreams you've had. You absolutely love people. And you've talked about your personal development — the lessons you have learned and continue to carry, and potentially continue to learn, following two divorces. What self-care practices or strategies help you sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

Kashonna Marrow (33:36.173) Well, Aderonke, I think that when we talk about self-care, it's about knowing what you need. Some people need massages, some people need manicures and pedicures, some people need the golf course — it's just about knowing yourself and asking, what do I need to make sure I take care of me? There's no formula for how you maintain you, you've got to know it for yourself. Unfortunately, I think we go on empty before we realize, yeah, I need to get gas. And that's a great way to tear up your engine — waiting till you're on E before you stop and get gas. By the time you do that, you've damaged your engine and now you need other major repairs. So my advice, or my recommendation, in that case, is to know where you are and begin to practice self-care on a weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly basis — dive into it often. Make it a rhythm, make it part of who you are, what you do, how you show up. Because honestly, people who work with people have to have a consistent refresh. There's no way you can tell me you're working with people twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, and you haven't taken a nap, haven't taken time to sit with yourself, haven't taken time to just breathe or read a book or just be with you. You've got to learn how to be with you and how to operate without the noise around. That's when you center yourself, that's when you reset, that's when you refresh and you're restored. And then you go out and do what's necessary to be great at what you do. So find your rhythm, be consistent in that, don't allow yourself to go on empty, make sure you're always thinking about how you can —

Kashonna Marrow (35:58.525) — do what is necessary, and then allow yourself to get curious about new things. Like, what do I need to do to keep me fresh? Who do I need to meet? What event do I need to go to? Not too much, but enough to engage a little bit as me and just chill and allow myself to engage in a way that refuels me. Those are some of the things I do and think about, and I think that keeps me fresh.

Aderonke (36:29.023) So one of the things you've just said is encouraging people to find time for themselves, to stop and perhaps be alone. If the person listening is super busy — maybe has kids, a demanding profession — are there some steps you can provide to get them started in that direction? Because you don't know — well, this happened to me last week. You don't know you're on empty until the light comes on, right, literally in my car. I didn't glance at the gas gauge. So that was a really great metaphor for me to hear. But how do you stop when you're just so busy and you forget to check how much gas you've got?

Kashonna Marrow (37:40.168) I incorporate it into my everyday life. There are times where I just have to stop. There are times where I'm like, no, I can't do that — I have boundaries.

Kashonna Marrow (38:00.317) Boundaries are those things people are afraid of, because it requires me — especially as a recovering people-pleaser — to say no. And I'm afraid I'm going to miss out on something if I don't say yes. I had to lose that. I had to lose that. I had to say, you know what, what's for me is for me, and the opportunity that's there is either going to happen tomorrow or it just won't, and I have to be okay with that. So even when I say no, if I'm sacrificing something, I have to know if I'm willing to sacrifice that — because it may be a big opportunity for me. So I have to be discerning enough to know, yeah, I would like that, but right now I don't have it. And is that going to cost me something more? Maybe. But I'm choosing me in the process. I have to have faith that if the opportunity is meant for me, it'll come back around. And I've grown confident in that. So it's in my daily routine — in my daily schedule — I allow myself to say no. I give myself permission to say, you don't have it today. But what ends up happening is people — the gas light is on, but we're adventurous enough to keep driving and see how far we can go.

Kashonna Marrow (39:54.641) Let's see if I can get to the next exit — and then you get to the next exit, and it's like, if I can get to one more, because the gas is a little cheaper at the next exit. And you keep pushing it and pushing it, and before you know it, you're on the side of the road. But that was your sacrifice. So you have to ask yourself, what am I willing to sacrifice —

Aderonke (39:54.902) Yeah.

Kashonna Marrow (40:21.5) — by going on E, or staying on E. I call it your indicator lights — pay attention to your indicator lights, what are they telling you? Because after a while, they're gonna tell you that you need a new engine, because you've played the game too much, gone too far. And now you have six thousand dollars' worth of damage versus sixty dollars' worth of damage. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. Your body speaks — the question is, will you listen to it.

Aderonke (41:08.703) Thank you for that guidance — the metaphor you used really resonated with me, 'cause it happened to me recently, literally. But you've given me pause to really think about what it means for my body, and perhaps my mental health, in order to be able to fill up your tank before you get to empty, and maintain that level so you're always able to go, no matter what — like you could start the car, start your body, and keep going because you've kept filling it up.

Kashonna Marrow (41:39.804) Yes.

Kashonna Marrow (41:52.976) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. It's so interesting — my husband and I... I did get married again, by the way. Here I am again — I told you I was adventurous. Okay, there we go. But I'll say this — when you talk about mental health, this triggered something in me. We were talking the other night and had a disagreement about something, and we talked it out, and he said, "Are you gonna be upset with me about this?" And I'm like, no, I'm done with it, we've talked about it. He was like, "Are you sure?" And I'm like, yeah, I'm done with it, I'm sure. I mean, what else is it? So we began to talk about this, and I had to let him know — I said, listen, let me just say this: I don't have the capacity to allow negative micro-experiences to build up so I can bring this back up three years down the line. I don't have it, I don't have it. So my decision in this moment is to deal with this, let it go, so we can live our lives. That's my decision, and I believe that's important for our listeners — because maybe you are carrying some unforgiveness, carrying some hate, carrying some pain that has built up in your heart, and you're wondering why you can't function the way you need to function, why you're not seeing the success you need to see. But have those negative micro-experiences built up so much that they're causing plaque in your heart? That they're causing your mind to be so subconsciously occupied that you can't dream?

Kashonna Marrow (44:09.446) You can't have new ideas. You can't even be innovative and creative, because those things are hidden in your mind and taking up space you need to get to your next level. It's not worth it. It's just not worth it. Not to me, anyway.

Aderonke (44:31.517) And if you could truly let it go, it's not gonna come up again — you're not gonna remember it, you're not gonna remember having whatever feelings you had, because it's truly gone.

Kashonna Marrow (44:45.467) Gone. I don't need — we've talked about it, and if we've truly talked about it and I've said all I needed to say about it, then that is trauma I don't have to take on. I've moved on, I've moved on. I've allowed myself to heal, I allow myself to forgive, and I've allowed myself to move on. I don't need it, I don't have capacity for that. I have too many things I want to do, too many dreams I'm waiting to fulfill — I don't have it, I don't have it. There's no space for that in my life right now. And here's the thing, my goodness, Aderonke — you gotta make the decision. What decisions are you making to live your life in full, to be happy, to have the joy? There are some things we blame other people for, but honestly, this is on you. This is on your decision-making. How are you gonna make different decisions so you can live the life you want? Mine has been to forgive fast — forgive fast and move on. Too much for me to do, to stay stuck here.

Aderonke (46:04.447) Thank you for sharing that. How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, and the world?

Kashonna Marrow (46:20.027) Well, I believe — I just said it — it's really about allowing yourself to forgive, allowing yourself to move on, allowing yourself to make a decision about the life you wanna live, and moving on from there. Everything starts with you, it doesn't start with someone else. It starts with you understanding who you are, it starts with you accepting — not only the good about you. We celebrate the great about people all the time, but there are some things that are not so great about you, and even if you're the only person who knows that, then deal with it. Deal with it. Don't make all of us deal with it — you deal with it. Why are you making me deal with it because you don't know who you are? So really sitting in the fact that, I shouldn't have said that, I shouldn't have done that, I could have handled that differently. I can't tell you how many times I've stopped and said, the way I said that wasn't kind, or I could have said that a little softer, I didn't have to be aggressive, I could have been more assertive but not aggressive — really being aware enough to understand, hey, I need to do something different here. When you do that, it ripples to your spouse, your children, your grandchildren — you're a microcosm of your community, your culture, your world. So how can I be a better me so it ripples into people? Everything I do in this business isn't just about me, it's about helping other people unveil that in themselves — helping them discover who they are and say, hey, wait a minute —

Kashonna Marrow (48:25.868) — I am an impact. I know we have these social media influencers, and I love it — but here's the thing, who are you influencing in your immediate circle? If people are online trying to figure out who you are because they know you to be nasty, then what are you doing? So I'm concerned about the people I hold dear and near to me. How do my children see me? I have three amazing children and they're all adults, and I want to make sure the impression I've left on my children — I started young having children, so I've had to go back and say, I am so sorry, I just —

Aderonke (49:09.991)

Kashonna Marrow (49:10.042) Mama just didn't know. Babies, listen, okay — I was young, I was trying to figure it out, y'all were casualties of war, okay. And there's war within myself, let me tell you, because I was fighting me — I was fighting me. So I had to go back to my children and say, I am so sorry. But that's again starting with me and realizing the impact I have beyond me, and being responsible for that. And I will tell you, every word that comes out of my mouth as a speaker, as a coach, as a training and development leader — I am responsible for, and I don't take that lightly, because I realize someone can be hanging on every word I speak. So everything I'm speaking, I take seriously, and I make sure that I'm preparing something — from my heart — because a lot of what we've been talking about today has been spontaneous, where you've extracted more from me. But that comes from a place of sitting with myself and being able to answer questions honestly and truthfully, because I've done the work in me, continuously doing the work in me, so that when you ask me a question, it's not coming from a place of "let me hurry up and make something up so it sounds good." It's coming from a place of, let me just tell you how this is, and be honest with you. I have learned the value of authenticity. And that's not just saying, well, I am who I am and everybody has to accept me or don't — I won't go there, because that's another podcast. But —

Aderonke (51:12.159) Mm-hmm.

Kashonna Marrow (51:16.528) — I believe we have to make sure we're palatable to people, that we're approachable. When we're hard and say, just take me the way I am — no one wants that. So make sure that if you're gonna change someone's life, you're at least a person — it doesn't mean everyone's gonna like you, I get that, but —

Aderonke (51:23.647) Mm-hmm.

Kashonna Marrow (51:42.498) — it's in the context of understanding who you are, and understanding that there are some things that need to be flexible and bendable and approachable, so that people can tolerate you, at least a little bit, inward.

Aderonke (51:57.558) Thank you so much. Thank you.

Kashonna Marrow (52:02.432) Absolutely, absolutely.

Aderonke (52:06.495) So I think this next question taps into your love for dreaming. What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions — and I'll say calling, because you've very clearly highlighted the work you do as a calling. So how do these opportunities align with your calling and aspirations?

Kashonna Marrow (52:37.254) Absolutely. So, even just this, Aderonke, is part of the dream of international outreach, international reach. I cannot wait to get to the Bahamas — no, Bermuda, Bermuda! Let me get my beach right.

Aderonke (52:53.851)

Kashonna Marrow (52:59.364) How about both of them? Can I have both?

Aderonke (52:59.957) There you go.

Kashonna Marrow (53:03.834) Bermuda, Bermuda. I cannot wait to get to Bermuda and be there live and in person for your retreat that you're probably gonna be putting on soon. I would love to be there — it's part of the international call I have, that's the dream. I've been able to go to Kenya and speak there, and I've been able to do different things in different places here and there, but there's still work for me to do internationally, because that's what I'm called to — to make an international impact.

Aderonke (53:39.072) So thank you for raising my retreat. I do have a retreat in November — November 7th, 2026, here in Bermuda. It's a women's retreat, it's called Space to Be, and I'm going to invite you to attend. It's a one-day event — it was originally...

Kashonna Marrow (53:44.584 / 53:50.269 / 53:56.179 / 54:04.953) You do? Yeah. My goodness. Yes.

Aderonke (54:08.337) ...expanded, and then I was like, okay, let me be realistic, let me start here. I did one last year with two friends, and this year I'm doing it in a different format. And I'm inviting you — so start thinking about it, you're more than welcome to attend. And it's really a focus on —

Kashonna Marrow (54:12.312 / 54:28.589) Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Aderonke (54:37.051) — joy. It's a focus on how we move forward from where we are. I've got some really great things planned, so thank you for allowing me to advertise it just a little.

Kashonna Marrow (54:47.865) Love that. I promise, y'all, I did not know that at all. That is amazing, that's amazing.

Aderonke (54:58.417) It is, it is. Things happen the way they're supposed to happen. So it sounds like you're coming to Bermuda — it sounds like you're coming to Bermuda, and I'm happy to welcome you in November.

Kashonna Marrow (55:02.689) Absolutely. Every single time. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Kashonna Marrow (55:11.213) Yes, I'm looking forward to it.

Aderonke (55:14.517) So Kashonna, we touched on this earlier — what brings you joy?

Kashonna Marrow (55:34.669 / 55:45.377) The opportunity that I've had to... live life. I wasn't ready for — hold on one second here, my glasses are foggy.

Kashonna Marrow (55:58.293) Woo. Didn't expect that to happen this morning. My opportunity to breathe again.

Kashonna Marrow (56:13.093 / 56:18.56) My opportunity to see my dreams unfold, the opportunity to be blessed with a wonderful husband and three amazing children. With family and friends who love me for me — that brings me joy. Everything that fills my cup to overflowing is about what I've allowed to happen, and not just what I've allowed to happen, but how I've allowed myself to see things — the perspective, the freedom of perspective — brings me joy, because things have happened in my life that other people would have probably died or lost their mind around, honestly. And my God-given perspective has allowed me to —

Kashonna Marrow (57:29.655) — find the good, and be in a space of gratitude. And so sometimes I find myself just in tears because I'm grateful.

Kashonna Marrow (57:52.099) Life is good.

Aderonke (57:55.604) Life is fabulous. Life is absolutely fabulous.

Kashonna Marrow (58:01.477) Thank you. Thank you.

Aderonke (58:02.623 / 58:06.847) Mm. Thank you.

Aderonke (58:11.271) So we're nearing the end of our conversation. What book recommendation or recommendations do you have? It can be a book you've read recently, or something that has stayed with you over the years.

Kashonna Marrow (58:28.965) So there are a few recommendations, but it kind of depends on the season of life you're in and what you're looking for. I'm reading a book now — finishing it up — by Emma Greed, called Start With Yourself. I've also read 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do by Amy Morin, I believe that's her name. And then there's a book called The Power of Full Engagement — more about time management, or managing your energy more than managing your time. I think that's good. I forget the authors on that one, but there are two of them.

Kashonna Marrow (59:23.725) We can start with that, we can start with that. Wait, wait — my gosh, what is her name? I'm trying to remember this book, which is a great book as well. The Gift of Rejection. Gosh, what is the —

Kashonna Marrow (59:46.742) — what is her name? Nona — Nona Jones, I think it's Nona Jones, I think that's what it is. But anyway — The Gift of Rejection, you'll see what that is. Yes, yes.

Aderonke (59:56.982) That's okay, we'll find it, we'll find it, and we'll put the link on the website when we get to your episode. So Kashonna, we've reached the end of this amazing conversation. Is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts?

Kashonna Marrow (01:00:08.868) I said —

Kashonna Marrow (01:00:22.617) You know, I really love the fact that the podcast is Heart of the Matter. I really like that, because what it says to me is that every situation, the outcome will be determined by the heart. So I really want to encourage listeners to always search your heart — just always ask yourself, how do I feel about that, and why do I feel the way I feel about it? Is it a heart issue? And when you're able to ask that question, you'll find the outcome shifts. So I just encourage listeners to really, really dig in, to go deeper instead of going wider. And when you go deeper, you'll find that your foundation is even more sure, and you're able to build higher.

Aderonke (01:01:28.649) Thank you so much, thank you. I've got so much, and I've learned a lot during our conversation, so I truly appreciate your time. Here are some of the appreciation nuggets I'm going to take away from today: people are at the heart of who I am — this is what you said early on. You also talked about following your calling as opposed to your passion. You are grateful for the fact that you've been in business for fourteen years. You said, and I quote, "I love people." You also said, to know what season you are in is a space of harmony. As you were going through really extensive growth and learning periods after your divorces, you had to examine yourself, and one of the things you said was, a lot of fruit is based on your roots — that you had to really look at. And you got some faith and a great therapist along the way, and you advocated for saying no as part of your ability to set boundaries, and that boundaries are a really great thing. And you also said, forgive fast and move on.

Aderonke (01:03:17.343) Kashonna Marrow, thank you for your time today. I appreciate you taking this precious time to join me on ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and wisdom of people you may know. Thank you so much.

Kashonna Marrow (01:03:41.817) Thank you so much, Aderonke. I appreciate you for having me. This has been a wonderful, wonderful experience, and I am grateful and honored for you allowing me to be on your platform. Thank you so much for trusting me.