S4 Ep1. Self-Taught, Self-Driven, Self-Known: Lemi Ghariokwu on Art, Purpose, and Pan-Africanism

This episode of ABWilson Heart of the Matter features Lemi Ghariokwu, an artist, thinker and Pan-Africanist whose life and work have been guided by self-discovery, purpose and a deep commitment to African consciousness. 

Lemi reflects on what it means to be an iconoclast, explaining that he has never been one to follow the mainstream. Instead, he has lived independently, taught himself through observation and practice and stayed anchored by the belief that every person has a destiny and a role to play in the world.

Lemi shares the story of how his artistic journey intersected with Fela Anikulapo Kuti’s, beginning with a self-initiated daily drawing challenge in the 1970s that led to his first memorable Fela cover art. That moment opened the door to an enduring creative relationship, one that would become part of music and cultural history. 

Lemi also reflects on his early race consciousness, the influence of books and metaphysics and the conviction that Pan-Africanism is not just a philosophy but a way of life rooted in truth, identity and liberation.

The conversation also highlights Lemi’s generosity with younger creatives. He speaks warmly about mentoring emerging artists, sharing books, encouraging independent thinking and making space for young people to find their own voice. 

From his work with students and creatives to his ongoing embrace of new tools like AI and social media, Lemi shows that reinvention can coexist with principle. His episode is a reminder that purpose, courage and lifelong learning can shape art and legacy.

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Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:01.159)

Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (00:10.922)

It happens to the best of us. Yes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:11.758)

Honest to God, I thought I had turned this stupid thing off, and this is what I mean. It's all sleep. I don't understand how the call is coming through. Do not disturb. Okay, okay.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (00:26.183)

Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:36.076)

All right, let's try that again.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (00:40.384)

Hmm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (00:44.302)

Five, four, three, two. Welcome to another edition of ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast that uses overwhelmingly positive questions to learn about our guests, where every episode uncovers extraordinary stories of triumph, growth, and empowerment. Hi, I'm Aderonke Bademosi Wilson, greetings from Bermuda. My guest on today's show is Lemi Ghariokwu. Lemi is an iconoclast, a Pan-Africanist, and purposeful. Lemi, welcome to the show.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:30.386)

Thank you for having me.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:34.146)

And what I do is I get my guests to explain their adjectives, and I want to start with iconoclast. What does that mean for you?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:46.717)

It means that I don't follow the mainstream. I'm not following the matrix. I'm not following the system. I'm very independent-minded. But by the same token, I have good character, if I have to say so, because I project humility in everything I do, even though I don't go with the waves of society a lot of times. So that's why I say I'm an iconoclast. I'm very rebellious, but in a cool, gentle way.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (02:25.057)

So when you say you don't go with the mainstream, what does that look like? Give me some examples.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (02:31.453)

For example, I didn't attend much school. I read up to secondary school, and I made a decision I wasn't going to university — I was going to study on my own. Yeah, I'm self-taught, the whole of auto-didact. I studied art on my own, learned by sight, by checking out artists, exhibitions, asking questions. I never really had a direct mentorship with any artist particularly, but I had some older artists in the neighborhood that I would go run around for and look at what they were doing. I'd go back home, practice on my own, come show them for approval. Just native intelligence, really — that's the way I've operated my life.

And I believe in one injunction, and that is: know thyself, for every human being. Know thyself should be the foundation. Knowing yourself in that realm, you'll be able to listen very carefully to the voice of guidance, the still small voice within each and every soul. I believe so much in destiny. I believe we all are put on earth for a purpose. That's why I said purposeful. I do everything in my life with intentionality. I'm willing to try out things. I'm malleable, but very principled. So it's a mix, because I studied metaphysics and I also believe in the middle path. The middle path is like warm — warm has elements of hot and cold. So warm is better than extreme cold or extreme hot. So that's my principle in life, that's my philosophy.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (04:32.919)

And so you've mentioned purposeful. Describe that for me as it pertains to your life.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (04:35.608)

Hmm.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (04:39.008)

Yes, relating to knowing about destiny — that we all have a destiny on earth. Like Shakespeare once said, the world is a stage, so we are all playing our role individually. I believe strongly that if we know our role on earth, we follow our destiny, then we live a purposeful life. Everything we do will be in that journey of achieving the purpose of the destiny. So I believe strongly in that, and that's how I've lived my life since a teenager. I knew myself, and I followed my journey independent of what society would rather want me to do.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (05:27.019)

And what do you feel your purpose is?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (05:30.517)

Yes, my purpose for this particular lifetime is to work towards mental liberation of African people, people of African identity. To try to showcase elements of what we are missing in our history, our true history, and our journey in the last 500 years. And that destiny led me to meet a personage as great as Fela Anikulapo Kuti. So our destinies crossed at that point in time, and my life had never been the same ever again.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (06:11.573)

Do you want to talk about that meeting?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (06:14.96)

Yes, indeed, I will talk about it. Like I said, I was self-practicing, learning by myself. And that particular year, I wrote out a short slogan and made a sketch. It was end of 1973 — that's 53 years ago. People were having New Year's resolutions, like always, and being the kind of character I am, I said, I'm resolute, I don't need no resolution. So I did a small piece of drawing — a wooden door, like in the ghetto environment where I grew up, with a huge crossbar and very thick padlocks. I used that to symbolize resolute, and I wrote: I don't need a New Year's resolution, I'm resolute.

But, interestingly, '74 was the incoming year, and I made a promise to myself that I was going to give myself a challenge — I had to do a drawing a day, every day, for that year. And I started working on it assiduously every day. I'd gather items in the house, do a still-life drawing. My mom would send me on errands, but I'd get a bit agitated because I'd be doodling, and she'd call me to go run errands. I'd go quickly, come back — sometimes a bit later, in the afternoon — and jump on my drawing paper. My mom would always tell me, "You've not taken your food." I'd say, "No, no, time is going for today." And she'd be looking at me like I was crazy.

And lo and behold, one morning — I love to listen to music, I'd play the vinyl record — I had Fela's new album at that point in time, called Music of Fela, Roforofo Fight. Fela's new musical form was still being introduced to the public. So that—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (08:29.508)

— accounts for that kind of title for the album, Music of Fela, Roforofo Fight. So I was playing that one morning, and I was at a loss for what to draw for that particular day, and my spirit just said to me, why don't I do a cover art for the album? So I just decided, okay, I was going to do a cover art. So I did a cover art, my own volition.

The album cover originally was a photograph of Fela into a microphone, but I now drew Fela. The word roforofo in Yoruba is like mud, a swampy environment. The song is about two friends who were arguing and getting into fisticuffs in a muddy environment, and Fela was chastising them and warning them: if you fight in this environment, you fall in the mud, you get covered by mud, we will not recognize the two of you, we won't know who is who, because you look like twins. It's some kind of jocular social commentary song.

And lo and behold, I did my illustration. I drew Fela dancing on mud. You can imagine — it didn't relate to the lyrics, but it related to the energy and the vibe I got from the music. The music was very jolly, very danceable. And I drew Fela dancing on mud. I even wrote the graphics "Fela and Africa 70." So I kept it amongst my drawings.

Meanwhile, it was the era of kung fu films. Bruce Lee's film Enter the Dragon was just released in Hollywood, and typically in Africa it was a blockbuster too, so it was very popular. I started doing portraits for people in the neighborhood — they commissioned me once in a while to do portraits. So a neighbor next door who ran a drink place came to me and commissioned me to do the poster of Bruce Lee's film, Enter the Dragon, like a painting of that poster for his drink place. So—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (10:55.541)

— there were three main actors in the film: Bruce Lee, John Saxon, and Jim Kelly. I made a painting of Bruce Lee — I thought it was a good poster for the guy. He framed it and put it in his drink place. Interestingly, a journalist called Babatunde Harrison from Sunday Punch — the newspaper is called The Punch today, but used to be known as Sunday Punch because it was weekly, on Sunday — got into the place and saw the Bruce Lee poster. He was very excited about the painting and asked who did this, and they said, "It's a young boy next door." In African parlance, when they say "young boy," it means "small boy" — that's the word, small boy.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (12:12.97)

Sorry — like we said, the call came in, but I quickly declined, and the screen went off, so I got a bit confused, thought we were off. Yeah. So Babatunde Harrison, the journalist from Sunday Punch, was brought to see me, and he asked if I had other drawings. So I brought out quite a number, maybe 30.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (12:33.109)

Okay, okay.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (12:49.285)

I'd been doing a piece every day, and as he was looking through, he saw the Fela cover that I did. He was really excited and said, "Can you do album covers?" I said, actually, I had done two before — one for my uncle's band, but it was never published; I still have that piece today, it was my first attempt. Then I did a second one for a musician I met at the TV station, and it was my first to be published, but the musician wasn't very popular. I hadn't really thought seriously about cover art as such — it was just the opportunity to express my art. So when he asked if I could do covers, I answered in the affirmative, but I was a bit timid and shy.

He said to me that two days before that day, he and Fela were having a discussion about cover art. I was looking at him like, this man must be drunk — he's coming from the drink place. I didn't believe him, and I didn't imagine he knew Fela. He said to me — he was giving me a challenge — that he was going to bring a photograph of Fela from the Punch newspaper collection for me to do a portrait, and that if the portrait was good enough, he would take me to meet Fela. I was actually a fan, though I didn't have the ambition to meet Fela — I just liked his music. But I picked it up as a challenge, because I was so proud of my talent. That phrase, "if the portrait is good enough" — inside my mind, I was saying, bring it on, bring it on. That was how confident I was, even at that stage.

He brought the photograph, and, like I've been practicing, my practice paid off. I did the portrait within 24 hours — the next evening the portrait was ready. My mom was quite supportive; she gave me money to frame it, to put it in a glass frame. The next evening, I was looking outside, expecting Babatunde Harrison. The moment I saw him approach, I brought out the portrait like a placard. I just showed him, "Uncle." And he just said—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (15:16.531)

"You've done it already." He said, "Okay, I'm not going to drink, but let's go." He hailed a taxi — I thought it was a dream. I ran inside, told my mom, "He's taking me to Fela." My mom said, "Be careful, Fela was notorious already," because a lot of young people would abscond from home and go stay in Kalakuta. So he took me.

Let me give a couple more details — let me give my first impression. When I finally met Fela, he saw the portrait and he was very excited. He said two words — the first time ever I heard this word — "Wow. Goddamn." And I should mention that I was doing portraits in my neighborhood, charging 13 naira. Nigeria's money was quite solid at that point in time — the naira was superior to the dollar; the dollar had like a 75-cent value to the naira at that point. So 13 naira was a good chunk of money to earn for a portrait, for a beginner like me.

So Fela ushered me in. He loved to write checks. He asked for my name — I didn't ask him for money, I hadn't come for money, but he was so impressed with the work. He asked for my name, wrote out a check, and he loved to roll the check like a cigarette, like a spliff. He rolled it and handed it over to me. I unrolled it and saw the figure: 120 naira. That was like four times what I would have charged, but he didn't know how much I charged. But my spirit — yeah, here I come — anytime you hear me say "my spirit," I follow my spirit every time. My spirit said to me I shouldn't collect the check. So immediately I handed the check back to Fela. I said, "I don't want money, I gave it from the bottom of my heart." He was surprised — I was 18. So he asked for—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (17:45.78)

— a notebook and tore out a sheet of paper and wrote out a gate pass: "Please admit bearer to any show, free of charge," and he signed, "Fela Anikulapo Kuti." Fela used to have four shows a week — Tuesday night, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Later on, people told me he must have taken to me specially, because normally if you got a gate pass, you'd—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (17:56.181)

Mm.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (18:14.643)

— write a particular date, like "Tuesday night, free of charge" or "Yabis night, free of charge," but for me it was a blank one. So that introduced me to the Afrika Shrine and Kalakuta. I started visiting whenever I had the opportunity, and that was the beginning of our relationship.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (18:39.063)

Thank you very much for sharing how you met. I just want to go back to your last descriptor — you described yourself as a Pan-Africanist. Tell me about being a Pan-Africanist.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (18:55.153)

Okay, for me, Pan-Africanism is a way of life for those who are very interested in moving Africa forward, moving our people forward. I don't particularly like the use of the word "black," but I'll use it for context sometimes. As long as you're a black so-called person, you're an African. But black is not supposed to be a race — they don't call the Chinese "yellow," yellow Americans, red Americans — it's just "we" and "them." That word, white and black, has a rationale, has a strategy, from my research, psychologically too, because it relates to light and darkness, and the religions of Christianity and Islam — these are colonizers' religions.

These are things I've known from early in my life. I'll give a typical example of how race-conscious I had been, and the race pride I've always had. In 1966, I happened to see Millie Small. Millie Small was a Jamaican superstar at that point in time — she had a huge hit titled "My Boy Lollipop" in the UK. You can Google her name, Millie Small. She was brought to Nigeria by Cadbury Nigeria Limited on a promotional tour. Cadbury had this customer loyalty thing going on — if you had 14 foils of the 400-gram tin of Bournvita and brought those tin foils to a designated point, you'd get a branded Bournvita umbrella as a gift. So my aunt took me to that point.

Meanwhile, I had been listening to Millie Small's songs on the radio. We had this contraption called a radio-fusion — we didn't commonly have transistor radios in 1966. It was a wooden box put in front of a building; the landlord paid the subscription, and we'd listen to the news—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (21:23.088)

— BBC, VOA, and the local station WNBS, Western Nigeria Broadcasting Service. But the music generally was foreign music, and Millie Small was popular. I loved that music. From her voice as a British West Indian, and her name, I never deduced that she was of my own race, my kind of people — I thought she was Caucasian. As young as I was, I was conscious like that, because we'd been watching John Wayne films — mobile cinemas would bring those films to show cowboys and Indians, how America took over the land. Anyway, let's not go into all that now. But I was that conscious.

So when I went to that Bournvita center to collect my gift, it was handed over by Millie Small, and I saw her, and the first thing I just said to my aunt in Yoruba was, "Ah, o dudu nishe," which means, "Oh, she's a black person." I was so surprised, and I had goosebumps — imagine. So that was how conscious I was of race pride.

Then, fast forward to 1969, Miriam Makeba—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (22:44.716)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (22:49.823)

— moved into America. She went into exile from South Africa, and I listened to a TV interview — it was the days of black-and-white TV. She had this comprehensive interview and was talking about the situation of the Africans, so-called black people. She said, in South Africa—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:04.172)

Hm.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (24:11.913)

Did I lose you? Let me see... okay.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (24:16.691)

You fell away just as you were saying about Miriam Makeba talking about the situation in South Africa.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (24:25.329)

Yes, and also in America. She said in South Africa, black people, African people, people of African descent, are in the majority, but they are underneath — the white man is boss. And at that point in time, she was in America — the white man is the majority, black people are the minority, but the white man is boss. Everywhere we are, we are down under. And I was 14, and in my soul I felt pity for my own people.

So fast forward to 1972, Soledad Brother George Jackson, information minister for the Black Panther movement, was shot to death in prison — San Quentin prison in Los Angeles — by a racist guard. I read about it in Drum magazine, I think also in FB magazine, and I cried. I cried, and I did a near-perfect pencil drawing of George Jackson. I still have his book, Blood in My Eye. So I've been conscientized — I've been conscious from life. That's why I know it's my destiny.

And '72 was the first time I saw Fela physically — he came to perform at my secondary school. He was a member of an organization called NAPWA — N-A-P-W-A, the acronym for Nigerian Association of Patriotic Writers and Artists. He performed, and I was a student watching him — I never knew that in two years my destiny was going to cross with Fela's, for the mission I came to this earth for.

That's the way I am a full-blown Pan-Africanist — I'm totally committed to that cause, very conscious. So I try to educate young people, let them find out things about our original history, our civilization, about the beginning, before the arrest and development we've had in the last 400, 500 years. So that's my mission.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (26:52.306)

That's the role I played with Fela, and I played it successfully, and that's why I'm standing today. Fela has been gone almost 30 years, but I'm still here, representing, and I'm very proud of that. Yes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (27:06.453)

Mm.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (27:10.647)

Thank you so much. I just want to get into my next question, Lemi. Please share three interesting things about yourself that our listeners may not know, and your friends will be surprised to learn.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (27:29.336)

Hmm, three interesting things. Wow. I'm a workaholic — is that interesting? I actually learned that from Fela — such a workaholic, with all the drama he was going through. Yeah, so I'm a workaholic. I'm a very shy person. I was so timid—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (27:41.643)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (27:59.238)

— but Kalakuta opened up my voice, and I never looked back ever since. I used to be very shy, I wouldn't want to talk. One day Fela handed me the microphone and said I should come on stage and discuss my art, because that particular album cover was being launched that day — a copy of the cover art was pasted on the center pillar of the Shrine. Fela just called me from the audience and said, "Let me come" — and he handed over his microphone and said, "Explain the imagery." I was shocked, I was scared, but the moment I opened my mouth — you know, it's my work, I love my work — I started talking, and I just love the challenge. So as I sit here, I can speak to a stadium of 100,000 people. Yes, so that's one of those things.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (28:57.014)

Mm.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (28:57.99)

Another thing is — some people know by now — I feel like I'm 18 years old. I'm not that age in my spirit, in my mind, but I have 53 years of experience added to the 18, so I'll be 71 now. But I still act like I'm 18 in my soul. I love young people — 95% of my friends are millennials, Gen Zs, people I work with, I collaborate with every time. And I went through a divorce five years ago — I got married to a 31-year-old lady. I guess that would be very interesting.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (29:47.456)

Yeah. So Lemi, can you tell us about a recent accomplishment or success that you're particularly proud of?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (29:52.802)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (30:01.25)

For me, accomplishments, success — sometimes I don't really let such stuff get into my head. I just love the simplicity of life, so whatever happens, I take it in my stride. Accomplishments — what I'm doing itself is an accomplishment for me, and I continue trying to reinvent myself. I'm relating to every generation that comes. I'm trying out a little bit of AI right now, because when I bought my first computer in 1992, some people who act like so-called purists — there are always purists around every time a new invention comes up — were criticizing my move to use the computer. I've been using the computer, adding it to my work, for the last 34 years now. So sometimes I look back at such people and say, look at you, you see where I am now? These days I try a bit of AI. One client just frowned at me — "I don't want to do it." I just smile — look at the theorists, here we go again. But in time, if you don't know this, you'll just be out of this thing. It's my way of life, it's my way of life. I love to just be simple and take things in my stride.

One thing that's making me extremely happy right now — I don't want to talk about it like an accomplishment, but the thing that gives me joy right now, in recent memory, is that I've had three opportunities back to back to have sessions with young people. About a little over a month ago, a curator — she's actually American, but based in Ghana — came to Lagos, and she had this topic called "curious curating." When we spoke, she said, "My art is curious." I said, "Yes, I love that topic." She said, would I love to come and talk to the young people? It was like setting up a retreat of—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (32:30.048)

— creative people, photographers, content creators, designers, visual artists. It was on for two weeks, and they gave me a session — I did a session of three hours with the young people. On the final day, they were showcasing what they'd created during that seminar, that retreat, and I was one of the guests of honor. One lady was presenting her new creation, and she quoted what I'd said during my talk with them — she didn't know I was in the audience, so I screamed, "I'm here, right here!" And the curator, Robyn — she's American — said, "These people have been quoting you all week," since they'd just quote me, saying, "Mister Lemi said this." And two weeks ago, I also went for such an activity with young people again — that was called "Talk Your Own," that's "Express Yourself." Had a good time. Right now, four of them want to come and visit my studio — one of them said he wants to see my book collection, because I talk about reading, it's important to gain information. I read a lot of books; Fela loved to read a lot too, so it was one of the things that attracted us to one another.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (33:55.018)

Okay.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (34:00.477)

We also studied metaphysics — we studied the Buddhist monk called T. Lobsang Rampa. You can Google him. He wrote 19 books; we studied all those 19 books on metaphysics and so on. So I love to read, and I shared that. Whenever I go and talk about my art, my practice, I talk about my life, and that's one thing people enjoy. I taught at some universities in Ghana last year, and everywhere I went they said my style of talking is different from a lot of professionals. A lot of professionals come and just talk about their practice, but me, I talk about life, and I throw in Pan-Africanism, and I talk about my practice too.

Just last week, there's a center here, J.K. Randle Centre for Yoruba Culture and Civilisation — they had a retreat also, for two weeks—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (34:46.785)

Mm-hmm.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (34:58.363)

— they invited me. I did a three-hour session — it was supposed to be three hours, I overran, I did like four and a half hours, so they had to cancel the next one that was coming immediately. I apologized that I took their time; all the young people said, "No, we're happy, we're very happy to have you express yourself so much." Yeah, those are my accomplishments, let me put it that way.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (35:26.199)

Thank you for sharing. Please tell us about a time when you made a difference in another person's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (35:36.678)

I didn't get that clearly.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (35:41.517)

Tell us about a time when you made a difference in another person's life. What were the circumstances? Paint a picture for me.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (35:52.588)

Hmm, I'm trying to pick one, definitely. Okay, there's a young man, a mentee of mine right now — let me take that one. He was at an event, also two years ago, called Fashion Evo — a fashion event, but they invited practitioners in the industry generally to come and talk to young people.

So I spoke, and I got off stage, and about 10 or 12 Gen Zs just rallied around me — they wanted to collect my information. This young man said to me, "Sir, it was because of you I came all the way from Ogun State. I just stepped aside from schooling, I want to pursue my art. I learned about your story — my dad is furious with me, like your dad did to you. So hearing you speak today, I'm so excited that I know I'm on the right path. I would love it if you'd be able to mentor me on that." I said, "It's not a problem." The first advice I gave him was, "You have to move to Lagos, you have to get closer to where the action is." I said the art industry is growing quietly, but it's growing, there's a lot of potential — I said I'd be able to connect him to galleries and so on.

And lo and behold, within two weeks the young man called me, said, "I'm in Lagos." I said, "What?" He said, "Yes, I found a friend in Lekki, in Victoria Island — I'll be staying with him temporarily." And then another—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (38:03.319)

— event was coming up, called — there's an online TV called Pop Central — they had this "70 Years of Music in Nigeria" event, that was two years ago, and I played a key role in that program. They set up residencies for upcoming visual artists — a competition you'd apply for — and this young man applied and was enlisted among those who were successful. So they had to serve a two-week residency at University of Lagos's department, so he called me again.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (40:43.543)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (41:03.066)

Okay — that's my life, though. I had somebody, a dispatch rider, deliver some medication for me, so I've sorted that out. Yeah, okay, all right, let's go on.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (41:06.861)

What—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (41:21.967)

Okay.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (41:25.951)

Okay, so continue. All right, so I'm just conscious of our time — we still have about eight more questions to get through, maybe a few more, so if we could just — okay.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (41:28.494)

Mm. Okay.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (41:35.69)

Okay, okay, I just ran up on this one — okay, so, yeah. So the young man is presently living with me in my house. He's been here for two years, and his mother is so happy. He's a hyperrealist painter, he does hyperrealism, he's fantastic, and—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (42:02.003)

LEMI GHARIOKWU (42:02.665)

— he's so happy, his mom is very happy. His mom sends food stuff sometimes — since I'm feeding him, she sends food stuff, and I feel a sense of fulfillment. And the young man is reading books off my bookshelf — he just read Black Skin, White Masks by — what's the name now, I forgot the name of the writer — Frantz Fanon, yes — Black Skin, White Masks, and he's so inspired, he's doing some series regarding that. And what he wrote — no, no, no, what he wrote — okay, yeah, yeah, that's the typical example.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (42:52.011)

And can you tell us the artist's name so we can look out for his work?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (42:55.741)

Okay, Hyacinth. Hyacinth, H-Y-A-C-I-N-T-H, David. He's on Instagram and TikTok. Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, yes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (43:21.197)

Okay, we'll keep an eye out for him. Thank you. So, Lemi, what were the key strengths and qualities you relied on to make a difference for Hyacinth?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (43:32.645)

Originality — for him to be himself. I never interfere in his process, I just talk to him and give him guidance, and I share books with him, of other artists, so he can look at them, study them — the same way I studied, because one great piece of advice Fela gave me that changed my life totally was he advised I should study on my own, should buy books of the great artists, European artists and all that, study, and pick what aspects I love. One of my first books was Leonardo da Vinci, then Rembrandt, Picasso. I read about them and saw their practice, and I realized most of them did apprenticeships also. I said, this is why we didn't go to university — it's what they created that can now be taught in universities. I said, yeah, I want to be like that.

So the same way, this young man is learning to be independent and think independently. He's now doing research on his own, and he's surprised about the real history of Africa. Most interestingly, he came in here as a very fanatical Christian, but in the last few months he's relived — he's studying, and he's even stopped going to church. Not me — I didn't advise him, I don't do that to anyone — but he discovered a lot of things and said, "I get it, these religions are not really intended for our progress." That's why we have profligacy. He gets information and shares it with me. When he picked up the book Black Skin, White Masks, I never imagined he could pick it up from my bookshelf. Right now he's reading Stolen Legacy by George James — yes, Stolen Legacy, that's what he's reading. He's out back—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (45:57.823)

— I would have called him. Yeah, so I'm excited, because my purpose now, for the rest of my life — I don't know how long I'm going to live, but I want to make sure I pass the torch on to young people, anyone that's accessible, anyone that takes it in naturally and runs with it on their own. I don't evangelize, and I'm not doing a religious crusade — both religions killed people to force them to take religion; no African religion ever did that. So I'm a Pan-Africanist of conscience. My motive is to help correct, to help towards our mental liberation, so that we can think right and value ourselves and uphold our identity, eventually, so that we can do things right in Africa.

I prevail on a lot of people when they want to japa — I try to talk to them, like, anywhere is the promised land. If God puts you in this location, check out your destiny — there's a reason, there's a purpose why you're in Nigeria. Why aren't you thinking of how to contribute to make Nigeria better? We all know Nigeria is not working right, because we have colonial machinations controlling our governance. Almost all the rulers in Africa — like 95% of them — are still being controlled. It's Mickey Mouse independence. Most of these rulers are apologists, gatekeepers, for the colonizers. That's why things aren't working well in Africa. So the earlier we wake up, the earlier we get truly conscious, and know about our true past, our true greatness, the sooner we can pick up the challenge.

And presently, there's a real, true leader in Africa — I feel such a sense of fulfillment to be alive for this to be happening. I may not mention the name, but you'll probably know who the person is. The young man is just 39 years old, and he's doing the right things, because he—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (48:24.282)

— is actually a reincarnation, a reincarnation of a precursor of what he's doing, in that beautiful country in West Africa. This young man is very exposed — when he talks, I listened to two of his speeches this morning, and I shared them and said this is a true leader right now in Africa. Because the young man has read about Marxism, he knows about Kwame Nkrumah, Muammar Gaddafi, Malcolm X, and he knows the evil of both religions. Even though he's a member of one of the religions, they've just stopped that religion — people praying in the streets — in that country, and he's of that same religion. Today he's made a law that the constitution is superior to any religion, and that's a bold step to take.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (49:10.541)

That's it.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (49:22.426)

It's very stirring, and it's happening in my life, and sometimes I look up at the sky and say, "Fela, come and see, come and see," because 50 years ago we never imagined that Africa would get to this. Thanks to social media and technology, that's helped a lot, because now I don't feel lonely and lonesome like I used to do a lot of times. When I go on social media, I could be on TikTok and see content creators who are Pan-Africanist, who are—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (49:39.403)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (49:51.497)

— deconstructing from Christianity or Islam, and I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, something I've been fighting for, for over 50 years. And now I see young people also in that room. Any time I see content like that, I share it — I share on my Facebook, I share on my TikTok, I share on my Instagram, and also in my status on WhatsApp. So I'm using the technology to—

And it's a great time to be alive, seriously, for people like me, because it's really a hard road to travel — a hard road to travel. But my character really helped, because around me, everywhere, people know I don't practice either of the two religions. Sometimes I shock people — like I'll go fill a form, they say "religion," I say "no religion." They say, "You must put either Christian or Muslim." Why must I do that? So that's the story of my life. Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (51:01.331)

So, Lemi, thank you for that — you've given us some great stories about the work that you're doing as an artist, how you have incorporated being a Pan-Africanist into your being, into things that you do daily, or maybe even hourly. Can you recall a situation where you overcame a challenge that led to personal growth? What did you learn from that experience?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (51:34.652)

Hmm — a challenge that led to personal growth. Okay, a typical one: I ran a printing business for 25 years — lithographic printing, printing posters. I used to print CD jackets, that envelope kind of jacket that CDs were being sold in in Nigeria — my company printed that, and so on. For a long period, the art work wasn't coming in — I mean visual arts — so I just focused on graphics and printing.

By 2003, a big exhibition about Fela's life happened in New York. I was a key figure in that exhibition, because I was the only one out of 34 artists who had actually known Fela, worked with Fela, invited to come for the exhibition. I had my business in Lagos — I had this young man that I'd trained, and he was very efficient, used to be able to go run errands for me. I was a printing contractor, I didn't have equipment, I would subcontract the work out and so on. He was handling everything so well. Before I traveled, I signed all my check leaves in the booklet, so he could do all the transactions while I was away, without any hindrance.

So I eventually spent three months in the US. I got back, the business was still intact. People were astounded — "This young man, is he your brother?" I said, it doesn't matter, he doesn't have to be my blood brother, I was happy. A few months later I was invited back to the US again. I went, and I'd given him authority to deal with all my clients, so he could collect—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (53:59.13)

— funds from them, if they wanted any printing done. So he was doing that, and some people were questioning me, "Do you trust this guy?" I said, it's fine, it's fine. So the second trip, I think I spent like a month. I got back, and I just realized all my earnings were gone — the young man had set up his own business. My business went bankrupt.

It was a very bad experience, but I didn't feel bad about it the way people close to me did — they were really upset, some even offered to go and handle the young man in a very disastrous way. I said, no, no, he actually served me well, he was a very good staff member of mine, no problem. And lo and behold, that was when the opportunity for me to do my first major exhibition came. The art that had been sitting for some years came back, and I grabbed the opportunity. Bless her soul, she's late now — Bisi Silva. She set up a gallery called CCA, Centre for Contemporary Art — you can Google the gallery, it's still existing. Bisi Silva gave me the opportunity to have my first major exhibition, that was in 2008. Ever since, I never looked back. By 2010 I dumped the printing business, so that bad, so-called experience was actually destined for me to move forward to my real life's purpose again.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (55:49.152)

And so what that sounds like is: when one door closes, another one opens, the door you're supposed to go through at that time in life.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (55:53.488)

Yes, exactly.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (55:58.224)

Yes, yes, yes, and that's my mindo.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:05.197)

You are listening to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter podcast. Welcome back to ABWilson's Heart of the Matter. My guest today is Lemi Ghariokwu.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (56:25.64)

Ghariokwu.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (56:29.495)

My guest today is Lemi Ghariokwu. Lemi, we've talked about your art, we've talked about some of the business that you've had in the past, you've touched on the work you do with young people and how you are a mentor, coach, supporter, and teacher of young people and their art. You've also talked about your longstanding relationship with Fela, first of all how you got to meet him, and then the work you've done over the years with him and your art in general. What self-care practices or strategies help you sustain your energy and motivation while navigating your journey?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (57:25.575)

Yes, I love to eat right, so I eat organic food generally. I'm also very health-conscious at this age — I watch a lot of health content, especially when I see anyone that's 60 and beyond. Senior citizens — I'm a senior citizen now, so I'm very conscious of all that. I have high blood pressure, so I monitor my blood pressure every day. I also have an enlarged prostate, so I make sure I eat right. For my prostate, I haven't been using medication for maybe about the last five years now, but I eat — there's a regimen of fruits I eat every morning, with oats, watermelon, carrots. So I'm very conscious of things like that, and because my mind is forever young, I still look young by the same token.

I don't eat red meat — I do goat meat, in Nigeria we have goat meat, it's red meat — I take fish a lot, like salmon, I do fish a lot, and sometimes chicken. So I'm sharing this for those who may need that kind of information, because life, we learn from one another, and I'm not one to pretend — what you see is what you get, I tell you who I am exactly. So that's how I'm explaining this — nobody has actually asked me this kind of question before, so I'm happy to even share.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (59:42.446)

Well, I appreciate you taking the time to answer them. And how might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (59:46.147)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:00:01.761)

I didn't get that well. You said...

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:00:07.329)

How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:00:20.618)

How might I share my sources?

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:00:27.809)

How might sharing your experiences of success and growth create a positive ripple effect in your family, community, the world?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:00:40.323)

Yes, I think sharing my experience is very vital. Especially — I don't like to pigeonhole things for young people. A lot of times people say, "What advice do you have for young people?" I say, everyone needs advice, everyone — till the day we die, we need advice. So sharing of experience is for the general public, the society at large, and the world at large.

I'm known as the King of Covers, because I made a career out of designing album covers. I've designed over 2,000 album covers in the last 53 years. My claim to fame is the body of work of album cover art that I provided to accompany the music of Fela Anikulapo Kuti. As an individual artist I designed 26 album covers for Fela's career, and his whole collection, I think, was probably 50 or 52 albums, so it's like half of his catalog that I designed. That created a movement — the visual and the audio, the art and the music, it created that movement, and it's said everywhere I go that it's very unique — there's hardly a collaboration between a musician and a visual artist that has that kind of volume, that prolificacy of work.

Yeah, and it's had a ripple effect, a positive effect on my family — I'm able to pay my bills regularly, I'm able to be a responsible human being. I don't want to pin it to gender — I'm a responsible human being, and I'm able to assist those who need assistance and those who are approved to assist. Also, it makes me like an example for people who are seeking direction in life. It's not everybody that has to go to formal school, formal education, per se. A lot of people have gifts and talents, and they're able to navigate their life, their journey through life, when they see people like me share our particular kind of experiences.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:03:06.167)

And that's why I use the first word, iconoclast, as my first word, because I'm a typical example of an iconoclast. So yeah, I love to share my experiences, and I'll continue to do that with anyone who has listening ears.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:03:30.369)

Thank you. What exciting opportunities do you see on the horizon? How do these opportunities align with your passions and aspirations?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:03:39.094)

Okay, opportunities are always coming up. Presently I have four album covers to design — presently — and I'm so excited at this stage in my career, especially in this age of streaming. I designed a milestone album cover for Davido — he's one of the biggest Afrobeats superstars, he has millions of fans, imagine my generation getting to do his album cover — so, from Fela to Davido. That was big news; the content on Instagram has about 113,000 likes because of the collaboration with Davido, and it gives me a sense of fulfillment. So opportunities keep coming.

As you speak, there's an organization in Canada — they're trying to get me over for September, they're planning a group exhibition and want me to give talks to young people in Canada, so right now they're working towards getting me a visa for Canada, because I don't travel on my own volition, as a principle. I've always said that — it's when I'm invited and fully paid, because I say Babylon owes us trillions and trillions in reparations money, so I don't want to use my own money to go bless Babylon again. I don't volunteer for that. So anytime people are serious enough, they go through the nine yards to get me over.

So this young group in Canada contacted me last year, and they asked, "Uncle, you must have a Canadian visa in your passport." I said, "Why must I have a Canadian visa in my passport? I've not been to Canada, I'm not interested in going to queue at the embassy." And they said — I said, "Seriously?" — and they said, "Okay, but we want you to come, you have to work on it." So permanently they're working on it, sending me information, everything — they have a consultant working on it.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:06:05.819)

And they're apologizing for the distress. I say, I don't like this regime, how they treat us — any time I travel, I get to immigration, I bring out my Nigerian passport, and someone is asking me questions. I say it's annoying, I just say, yes, that's how I feel. So opportunities keep coming — interestingly, they were asking me, about the visa application, now they're asking that I should prove that I will return back to my country, and — God, you know, Africans are very embarrassed — so I sent in my previous passport, all the visas — my last visit to the US was in 2019, University of Wisconsin–Madison invited me, and then Kalakuta Sunrise and our organization also invited me. So since 2019 I hadn't gotten a serious invitation — when people invite me, they're not ready to bankroll everything, I say, no, I'm not coming, you have to take care of everything. Oh, I lost my train of thought just now, I forgot what I wanted to talk about — okay, yes, the visa application.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:07:33.131)

Yeah.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:07:35.086)

So I sent in all that information to show that I've been out and back — I've been to Paris, I've been to Australia, Ghana, I was in Ghana twice last year. It didn't suffice. They now said any other engagements coming up in the immediate future would make me show, for sure, that I would—

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:07:57.965)

Mm-hmm.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:08:04.108)

— like, return back home. And interestingly, like you talked about opportunities, there's an event coming up for collaboration in October in Kwara State. I've been pinned down to play a major role in the exhibition — it's going to be about Fela's life and the whole gamut. The curator called me and I said, "Wow, this is serendipity," I said, "Can you write me the letter now?" And she wrote me the letter — the thing will be coming up late October, so my trip to Canada is September, so at least that's evidence again that I will definitely come back home. Can you imagine — wow, this is the players.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:08:48.834)

Yeah.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:08:56.715)

So, Lemi, you've got some exciting work coming up, you're doing absolutely wonderful things, you're working with great artists of today, and you've worked with great artists over the years. What brings you joy?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:09:09.377)

Yes.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:09:16.34)

Yeah, this sense of purpose, this sense of fulfillment. I've always been someone who appreciates whatever I have — I'm very contented in spirit. So all that gives me joy, and more joy — young people that I'm able to interact and collaborate with, more joy — and also social media, where I see people of like minds sharing the same kind of Pan-African ideology that I've been propagating and promoting and preaching for over 50 years. So I feel a sense of fulfillment, I feel a sense of great hope for the African Renaissance that's coming sooner than we expect. We will wake up from this slumber soon enough.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:10:11.233)

We're coming to the end of our conversation, and I know you've talked about books, and books have played a major role in your life and how you've chosen to educate yourself. What book recommendation do you have? It could be a book or books you've read recently, or something that's stayed with you over the years.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:10:34.384)

Over the years I will recommend Stolen Legacy by George James, and I'll recommend How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney, and The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon. And the young man is reading Black Skin, White Masks, also written by Frantz Fanon.

Frantz Fanon, yes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:11:09.271)

Thank you for your book recommendations. Lemi, is there anything else? Do you have any final thoughts you'd like to share?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:11:10.45)

Thank you.

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:11:16.89)

I think it's done and dusted — I'm fulfilled with this already. So final thought, okay: know thyself. Know thyself, so you can place yourself, your role, in this world presently. So, know thyself.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:11:41.749)

Lemi, thank you for your time today. The appreciation nuggets that I'm taking away from our conversation — and there are many — you are indeed an example to many others who have chosen to live their life according to their own way, and you have indeed indicated that you are purposeful, that you are a Pan-Africanist. You've also indicated that you believe in giving back, helping others as you move through life. You've said that for each generation in your life, you've worked with young people, you've supported them as they've moved through their artistic endeavors, and you believe in passing the torch on to young people. I think that's been very evident throughout our conversation and all that you've shared, and I look forward to — before I close, do you have a website, or give us your social media handles, so people can find you?

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:12:56.336)

Okay. Yes, unfortunately my website is not working now, so — social media, my handle on Instagram is @LemiGhariokwu, Lemi Ghariokwu, my full name. Facebook is also Lemi Ghariokwu.

Yes.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:13:19.297)

Okay, and so I'll be sure to put that on the podcast website so people can find you. I appreciate you taking the time to join me today on ABWilson's Heart of the Matter, a podcast dedicated to asking overwhelmingly positive questions as we uncover incredible stories and wisdom of people you may know. Lemi Ghariokwu—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:13:39.522)

Thank—

LEMI GHARIOKWU (01:13:48.239)

I appreciate the opportunity a lot. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much, my sister. Thank you.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:13:48.609)

Thank you so much for being here today.

Aderonke Bademosi Wilson (01:13:57.709)

Thank you.