Who Actually Decides When You’re ‘Cancelled’?

Cancel culture shows up fast — and disappears just as quickly. Some people lose everything. Others barely flinch.

In this episode, Qetsiyah Jacobson, founder of Unserious, joins me to get into what actually determines who gets “cancelled” and who doesn’t. We break down the role of fanbases, parasocial loyalty, and the infrastructure behind someone’s brand — and why the same behavior can have completely different outcomes depending on who you are.

From Chris Brown to Sydney Sweeney, we look at what survival actually requires, and where the line between accountability and self-preservation starts to blur.

Highlights

(00:00) Meet Qetsiyah Jacobson

(02:15) Does society forgive misogyny?

(04:04) Why Armie Hammer and Kevin Spacey have stayed canceled

(06:51) Sydney Sweeney and the power of fanbases vs. fame

(15:23) The fall of Nicki Minaj

(18:16) Kanye West and why some apologies just don’t work

(20:30) Performative apologies vs. genuine accountability

(25:58) What the fear of being canceled means for internet culture

(29:30) Tactics for improving public image

Resources:

Hear more from Brianna in the Stop the Scroll Newsletter: https://briannadoe.substack.com/

Brianna’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianna-doe/ 

Qetsiyah’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/qetsiyahjacobson/
Unserious Agency: https://www.unserious.agency/

Transcript

Qetsiyah Jacobson (00:00):

Nicki Minaj. People have tried to cancel her for so long and it's only working now because her core fan base is actually done with her and I don't think she's going to recover.

Brianna Doe (00:21):

Hello, I'm Brianna Doe, and this is Stop the Scroll. So let's get into the content that makes us stop, click and care. And today is one of my favorite topics, cancel culture. And my hypothesis before we dive in is this. So cancel culture is less about accountability and more about just who survives it, whether or not you survive. It is less about what you actually did and more based on the strength of your Parasocial bonds, the infrastructure you have set up around your business or brand and whether you're willing to just keep going. So with that being said, I brought in one of my favorite people to talk about this. Qetsiyah Jacobson has made a career around knowing really what's going on online before it even goes viral. And as the founder of Unserious, I mean when I say she might be the most in the know person I know. So before anything else, curious what you think of this, if you think I'm nailing it, missing anything?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (01:15):

Oh my God, yes. First of all, thank you for the sweet intro. I love coming onto the podcast and just talking about internet culture and all of that stuff, but I do think you have a super, super, super valid point. I think that especially the parasocial relationship one, I feel like that 1000% contributes on whether or not people get canceled. And honestly, I think you have a great point.

Brianna Doe (01:39):

Okay, so first person I want to talk about then I feel like it's the most obvious example and you're probably going to laugh, but Chris Brown, not sure how you, I have so many opinions...

Qetsiyah Jacobson (01:48):

I have so many opinions on that man.

Brianna Doe (01:50):

Not sure how you feel about him, but I will say, so for context, just to level set, I did some research on this. I actually didn't know it was this bad, but he has a documented 16 year pattern of literally name the type of violence and his stadium tour still pulled in almost $300 million and was almost completely sold out. So I'm just curious, how do you think cancel culture applies to him? Do you think it should stick? Why hasn't it stuck?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (02:15):

I honestly think that there's so many different variables as to why Chris Brown is still famous. I think it also has to do with a lot of misogyny and toxic masculinity and how men are being presented in the media and stuff like that. I think Chris Brown's main fan base are women, and I feel like unfortunately for us, there's a lot of things that in the way that we're raised as women in this society that we pass as acceptable, the way that he behaves as a man isn't necessarily 100% frowned upon. It's always kind of like, oh, well men will be men or whoever was at the receiving end of it, which is usually women probably provoked it. And also I think that a lot of men don't get consequences to their actions in this society, the way that society is built, and they're just held to a different standard as women.

(03:06):

I think also, like you saying, I didn't even know it was that bad. I think that he has a good PR team who is able to make it seem like, oh, well, he is taking care of himself and sweeping a lot of those things under the rug. So for you it might be like, oh, well he did this one thing and he said sorry, and it's like, oh, well, we don't know about the 16 years of that very obvious pattern unless you're very much ingrained into it. So I think it's kind of a mix of that really good pr, a lot of misogyny and kind of how men are brought up in this society as well. But I also would love to know what you think.

Brianna Doe (03:42):

Okay, on one hand, I agree. I think misogyny is interwoven into the fabric of our culture and that's international, not just in the US where Chris Brown is based. He does have a great PR team. He candidly probably has one of the best PR teams I've ever seen, just simply for the fact that he survived this much backlash. I also do wonder though, with the misogyny piece, you're right, a lot of men in power aren't held accountable at all for their actions, but the people that immediately came to mind are Armie Hammer and Kevin Spacey, if you're familiar with either one. Anyway, Armie Hammer slash is an actor, comes from a very wealthy, very well-known family. He was in movies, Rebecca, Call Me By Your Name, with Timothee Chalamet, and he was kind of on the rise doing really well, conventionally attractive, well-spoken, charming, so obviously he was going to be a superstar married, I believe.

(04:36):

And then a couple of years ago, accusations started to come out from women who while he was married, mind you, there were allegations of assault, cannibalism, domestic violence. I think I heard of that. Yeah. Wait, I know who there was a whole time. Yeah, the cannibalism really locked it in. Yeah, so his career tanked almost overnight. I think I've seen him in maybe one movie since, but he is essentially, in my opinion, blacklisted. Kevin Spacey is the other example, hard for me to talk about because I love House of Cards if you ever watched it, but House of Cards was this extremely popular Netflix show that I would say was one of his more recent pieces of work, but that went on for I think like eight years. He was also in American beauty movies like that really famous actor, very prolific actor, didn't have a cult following Chris Brown, but just very prolific, had a very long career. Allegations of assault and rape I believe came out and he hasn't really recovered. He did this video in the midst of this cancellation of his called, let Me be Frank, which was a playoff of his character, Frank Underwood from House of Cards.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (05:42):

That's so bad. I'm sorry.

Brianna Doe (05:45):

Let's just play the video.

Kevin Spacey (05:48):

I know what you want. Oh, sure. They may have tried to separate us, but what we have is too strong. It's too powerful. I mean, after all, we shared everything you and I told you, my deepest darkest secrets, I showed you exactly what people are capable of. I shocked you with my honesty, but mostly, I challenged you and made you think.

Brianna Doe (06:11):

So very bizarre video, in my opinion, very strange, didn't go over well. People did not vibe with it, and his career has not recovered. I say all this to say they're also men and it might be worth pointing out, they're also white men. So really I would think that a black man wouldn't have to endure more backlash, but both of these men are essentially blacklisted, I think.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (06:30):

Okay. First of all, cannibalism I think is where people drew the line.

Brianna Doe (06:34):

I think we were like, okay, fair. Who are...

Qetsiyah Jacobson (06:37):

You're starting to eat other people. I'd be like, that's too much.

Brianna Doe (06:40):

Well, and candidly, it's less normalized, which sounds horrible.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (06:43):

That's not something that we're like, thank God as a society, we haven't normalized it. But I also think maybe they didn't have that much of a cult following. Okay, I'm going to bring up Sydney Sweeney. I mean, she's very much part of this conversation, but if you look at Sydney Sweeney, right? She's famous, but does she have a fan base? You know what I mean? She doesn't have fans, she's just famous. And I feel like there's such a big distinction between being famous and actually having a fan base because for example, Chris Brown people go and buy his stuff, like he has a fan base, but Sydney Sweeney, no one supports her movies right now. She's suffering. She's really trying really hard to keep her career afloat, and I'm just wondering if those people that you mentioned, they just didn't have that strong of a fan base to begin with.

(07:33):

And I also wonder if some of the things that they've committed and some of the things that they've done actually were directly tied to the people that they're working with. Because I think also the type of victim also is interesting is like, oh, if it's a nobody that we can just bury and whatever, sweep it under the rug, it's different. But if it's something that you do with your colleagues, the director, or in a professional environment, I wonder if that was also the case and if that also affected their cancellation because now it's like, oh, we just need to get rid of this guy. There's no way this is going to happen. That's kind of how I'm looking at it right now.

Brianna Doe (08:11):

That's a good point. Harvey Weinstein comes to mind. I want to put a pin in Sydney Sweeney and make sure we go back to her. I think she's a really interesting case study. Chris Brown. I think your point about being famous versus having a fan base is interesting because like I mentioned at the beginning, I do think a lot of it has to do with the strength of the Parasocial Bond and Chris Brown. I will say, honestly, it was very hard for me to stop listening to. I started listening to him, I don't know when I was 12 or 13, his album, I don't remember the name, but it's one where he is wearing that white hat. It was the first album my parents ever bought for me. I played that thing like crazy and it felt like Chris Brown's music. I grew up with it.

(08:51):

And so it felt like it was part of my high school experience. And even my college, Kevin Spacey doesn't have that Army Hammer doesn't have that. It doesn't have to look the exact same, but even when I think about House of Cards, my dad, for example, loved that show, could not care less when Kevin Spacey was canceled, he just moved on with his life, didn't think about it again. And so I wonder if that's even measurable, what kind of fan base you need to have and how do you make them care about not just your music or your art, but you.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (09:19):

I think a lot of the examples that I'm thinking about whether or not they've been canceled, I think one of the main differentiators are the fact that they do have a fan base. They genuinely have a diehard fan base, and that's why it's so hard to cancel them. For example, even now, okay, I'm going to bring up another white woman, but Taylor Swift for example, she's going through the ringer, but is she ever going to get canceled officially? I don't know because she has such a die hard fan base, and I feel like if she's ever going to be canceled or even Chris Brown is ever going to be canceled, or for example, right now Nicki Mina is being canceled. The only reason she's being canceled is because it's coming from the inside. It's coming from their fan base actually being done with them and canceling them because outsiders can't do that. Nicki Minaj people have tried to cancel her for so long, and it's only working now because her core fan base is actually done with her, and I don't think she's going to recover from what she's doing.

Brianna Doe (10:21):

I don't think she will either. Before we touch on Nicki Minaj, Taylor Swift and Sydney Sweeney are interesting examples, and I want to go back to something you mentioned about, you said Sydney Sweeney is suffering right now. Is she? Because when I dug into Sydney Sweeney for a newsletter I was working on, her last four movies have flopped horribly. I think the best one made maybe 5 million, but the budget was something like 75 million. Then the house made, if I read it right, I think it hit 300 million at the box office. So it's her most successful movie to date. However, some would argue, including myself, that's not because of Sydney Sweeney, it's because of the built-in audience for the book. But is she suffering? She's still landing brand deals. She had an American Eagle ad.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (11:01):

I think to your point, the idea of suffering is completely different for each person. I think that someone like Sydney Sweeney, I think she just wants to be famous. I don't think she cares to have a fan base. You know what I mean? I think she just likes fame and attention, but I think from her having to apologize for the American Eagle ad, you can tell that it was affecting her pockets because before she didn't care. She was like, I stand by what I did, and I don't care to explain it to anybody, but if she has to come out and apologize, it means that her pockets are hurting. And probably maybe some higher ups are like, Hey, we don't really feel comfortable working with her because people are boycotting her movies. And also the thing too is like, Amanda...

Brianna Doe (11:45):

Seyfried?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (11:46):

I'm pretty sure she pulled half of that for the movie that they're doing, right? People were on the fence because he really wanted to support her. They didn't want to support Sydney Sweeney. And so I don't know if she's not capable of bringing in the numbers that she needs to bring in or she doesn't have buying power. I think maybe that's why she was trying to appeal to more male centered ads because she doesn't have a fan base. If she had a fan base, and usually that fan base would be made out of women or something like that, they would write for her. They would buy whatever she's selling, but she has to resort to feel like appealing to the male gaze because I don't think she has fans. I think she's just famous.

Brianna Doe (12:29):

You made me think something else. So she doesn't have a fan base, just has fame, and she's not worried about upsetting a fan base that follows her. And I think Taylor Swift, to your point, and Chris Brown are actually kind of, I don't want to say different sides of the same coin, because what they have done is a lot different. Taylor Swift has not been accused of violent acts or anything like that, but the level to which they're both untouchable, I would say is pretty similar. So I'm thinking about this and about the Nick Minaj example at the same time, and I think the thing with Nicki Minaj is every time that folks tried to cancel her before, I don't think it stuck because her fan base didn't feel betrayed. And in this political landscape, there is a deep level of betrayal that I don't think she's going to come back from with Chris Brown. I think going back to your original point, maybe people just don't really care. It's not happening to them because I would think as a woman, if Chris Brown is hurting other women, that would be a betrayal to me, but maybe not. It's not me that he's hurting and Taylor Swift, whatever, I don't care. She's not offending me.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (13:28):

I think just now people are starting to be a little bit against Taylor Swift. Her fan base is starting to turn on her a little bit, and because they're like, you're not speaking up and you made this whole image about wanting to be on the right side of history, and now it is time to do that, and you're just being quiet and they're starting to kind of see it, but still, I don't think it's going to affect her that much because if it did, she would've spoken up. I feel like she's very smart woman, and I don't think that if it would ever jeopardize her brand that she would ever associate with it or do anything against that. But yeah, I think also, unfortunately with Chris Brown, not everyone thinks the same way that you do. It's just the way that we are conditioned as women, I think in this society is like you sometimes tend to find excuses or you don't really care about whether or not someone else got hurt. It's sad, but it's just kind of how things are. That's why you have the whole trope of male centered women. If those women are male centered, they're not going to care about another woman suffering. Unfortunately, I don't like to bash women because I love women, but I feel like in this scenario, I'm talking about a very specific type of woman that I personally would never associate with.

Brianna Doe (14:52):

Yeah, I think that's fair. I do wonder too, how many of the women who continue to listen to Chris Brown, be it right, wrong or indifferent, how many would consider themselves male-centered?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (15:02):

Oh, no one does that. And if there are...

Brianna Doe (15:03):

Some people I think own it, right?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (15:06):

I think that the people who own it are people who are on the other side of it. They're like, oh my God, I can't believe I was like that. But I don't think someone's going to be like, I am male-centered. Okay, valid. That's true. I true think that's kind of a behavior that you notice and you're like, Ooh, maybe not.

Brianna Doe (15:23):

Yeah, that's a good point. Okay, so then going back to the Nicki Minaj example, I actually love to talk about this one. First of all, yikes. I wonder sometimes about who their manager is and who their PR team is and how on earth they're getting away with doing the things they do. But I'm just curious your thoughts on, I'll just be broad, what she's doing, the things she's saying and how it's impacting her audience.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (15:45):

I think it was two or three years ago, I bought a Nicki Minaj ticket, and then it came out about all of the stuff that's happening with her husband and all that stuff, and I just didn't go. I tried to sell my ticket. No, I want to buy it. So I think that there's said girl, we don't want that either. Exactly. So that's my stance. I was like, I really, really liked her music. She was in my top artist Spotify, but I think, oh God, I have so many things to say in terms of how I feel about how she's behaving, but such a lack of integrity. To me, the way that I look at it is a lack of integrity. It's kind of like biting the hand that feeds you. You know what I mean? You've built an entire career around queer people and people of color and all those things, and they've made you who you are.

(16:36):

You have had the success that you had because of it. To me, it's kind equivalent to selling your integrity or selling your soul, or maybe she always felt this way and she was just hiding it behind her brand to get whatever she needed. And then now she's just showing her true colors. That and on top of the type of people she surrounds herself with, I think says a lot, who she's married to and being literally a pedophile. There's so much wrong with this woman. Literally everything. It's like pick a struggle, pick a struggle. You cannot just check everything off and she just checks everything. It's crazy.

Brianna Doe (17:15):

Yeah. I do think who you surround yourself with is a reflection of you, and I think it's pretty obvious what kind of person she is. I think lacks integrity. I think even beyond that, that's also probably a big part of why this cancellation. I'm going to predict that it will stick because you did get to where you are on the backs of people of color, black women, queer people. That's literally how you got as rich as you did. You can say it was something else, but it wasn't. And so to then turn around and inflict this level of betrayal onto your audience, I think that sums it up. I feel like I'm just throwing people out there, but then that makes me think of Kanye West. He just issued that apology. But I also feel like when I see a comment section about Kanye West, it is very divided. I feel like the black community is extremely divided about Kanye West. Some couldn't care less about the things he does, whatever. His music's great. I love college dropout, whatever the argument is. The other half is like, I'll never forgive him, et cetera. In theory, you could argue that he also lacks integrity, and it's the same issue as Nick Minaj 1000%, but I completely for

Qetsiyah Jacobson (18:16):

Forgot, his Trump phase just popped back into my head. I'm like, wait, we glossed over that way too quickly. We did not, did I think of it? He literally did the same thing, but I think that's why he issued The Apology. Isn't his album coming out and all of a sudden he's apologizing? I feel like it's always interesting to see when people do certain things, and also I have a hard time with people who do apologies via a written letter that could be written by anybody. Sit down and have a live chat and give people the opportunity to have a discussion with you because you put a letter out. You don't have to read the comments. You don't have to look people that you portrayed in the face or in the eye. You can just get this letter written, post it, and you're still sleeping the same in your big mansion.

(19:09):

You know what I mean? And there's no level of accountability. I don't think that he is surrounded by people who would hold him accountable. I'm kind of going a little bit left, but it's going to make a point, but it's kind of like when people talk about unlearning racism, our society is not built or conditioned for people to unlearn the racism. If anything, you're learning it from a very young age. I see for example, white people who are like, Hey, I'm unlearning. I'm creating these resources, and their entire friend group is white. And so who is holding you accountable? What's the environment in which you're able to actually apply those things? If you are just surrounded by the same people who look like you, who think you, who do the same things like you, in what way are you actually able to unlearn? You can't just read an Instagram post. You know what I mean? And so same thing with Kanye West, it's like, yeah, maybe, but are you actually putting yourself in a different environment to unlearn that? Are you actually talking to people with different perspectives? Those are all things that are needed to unlearn things, and I feel like that's the work that people are not doing. And so I don't believe Notes app or I guess Adobe Photoshop app type

Brianna Doe (20:30):

Of apologies. Okay. That's interesting because most people, this is a sweeping generalization, but most people, whether they do an apology video or a written video, they aren't typically showing all the ways that they're then going out and making changes in whatever area it is they messed up or were flawed, but some, I'm assuming you believe some apologies.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (20:53):

Yeah,

Brianna Doe (20:54):

Yeah, of course. So what do you think makes an apology land versus one that makes it worse?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (20:59):

I think it's something that you also see over time. You can apologize and stuff. And I think the way that people are people making excuses when they're apologizing, that's a very big thing. I think that gives way that they're trying to shift blame or already taking full on accountability. I think if someone is able to be like, okay, I messed up. I know I don't deserve people's forgiveness, and it's something that I will have to work towards, and you see them actually actively doing the work. For example, the same thing with Kanye was like you said, oh, some people actually put down resources and actually unlearn stuff that's different. For example, there's this woman that I watch on YouTube that I just recently started watching, and she was very much very big MAGA person, and she started her YouTube channel to really actively educate other people who are in that same bubble and show them, Hey, there's another way.

(21:55):

And really showcasing the idea and indoctrination and all that stuff behind it. And she's really openly talking about her mistakes, and you can tell she's uncomfortable, but you can see that journey. And people like that I think have way more sincerity because she's actually working on it. She's opening those conversations. One channel is YouTube, for example, and she's actively working on that and explaining, and you see and hear her thought process over time, and there's still things that she's unlearning. And so again, very extreme, but I truly believe that she's working on herself and that she actually is doing the work. But when it comes to, for example, Kanye West and his apology, I didn't really see him talk about what he's going to do moving forward except, oh, I'm going to therapy and taking my medication. I think I don't see it as there's, oh, I'm going to stop selling hate merch.

(22:51):

Okay. I guess, was that YouTuber canceled at some point? No, she actually started her YouTube channel because she left MAGA, and she was like, I need to educate other people with all of the harm that I've done. It is my responsibility now to educate other people. That's kind of how I started. It wasn't starting with a cancellation. It was more like someone in the background who wasn't necessarily famous who left MAGA and was like, oh my God, I'm having all these revelations. There's probably other people who need to hear this and should not be supporting X, Y, Z, and I need to work on myself. And started this YouTube channel too.

Brianna Doe (23:26):

What's popping out to me, I think it's a very interesting distinction. You have this woman who started this channel not prompted by trying to regain trust with her audience or make back the money she lost from brands that dropped her, things like that. She started this out of what I would assume to be not the goodness of her heart, but because she actively, intentionally, genuinely wants to educate people and help people, that's cool. I mean, I won't watch her, but I think that's cool. I don't know if, I would think it was cool if somebody else got canceled for their political beliefs and then they were like, oh, well, it changed my mind. No, you all are right. No, and I think that's the point. So I'm curious, do you think cancel culture and everything around it can actually change behavior or do you think most of it is just performance? I think most of it

Qetsiyah Jacobson (24:12):

Is performance. Back to the point of you're not changing their environment. Examples, I'm going to give, and I know that you were going to talk about her anyways, but Brooke Schofield and Tana Mongeau. Tana Mongeau, as much as she is like, oh, I've changed and da, she hangs out with the same exact people she's been hanging out with for the past 10, 15 years, and so did you actually change? Because the thing is we hang out with people that hold the same beliefs as us. And if you had those beliefs back then it comes out now and you're still friends with those people and you're still friends after that just tells me that you're just going to be more careful about what you say online. And that's kind of like what came out about Brooke are very much liberal online and very much like rights. And then in their private lives, they're very conservative, which again, there's nothing wrong with being conservative, liberal, whatever. I just think in this political climate, what conservatism is being tied to I think is problematic.

Brianna Doe (25:14):

Just as importantly, you need to just own what it is that you believe and not put on a front.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (25:17):

Exactly. And so some people are actually have more liberal views just for popularity. And that's what I was wondering about. Nicki Minaj too. It's like was she always holding these homophobic things in her mind just for popularity? The same thing with artists who appropriate black culture and then back in the background, they're racist and they bash it at the end of the day. I'm not saying they're not people, but they're brands first. What we're seeing is their brand. We don't know what happens behind the scenes, and so they do everything to build that brand, and then whatever they do behind the scenes is different. So to me, I think a lot of it is performance, to be honest.

Brianna Doe (25:58):

Do you think the fear of being canceled then makes the internet safer, or is it just performative or more performative? And if it is performative, is that a bad thing or no?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (26:09):

If you have to think about the fear of being canceled, you need to reflect on yourself as to why you would get canceled. Got to do some inner work. Yeah, do some inner work. Maybe Mia always said, I probably would get canceled by men, but I don't care because I make content for the girls.

Brianna Doe (26:24):

That actually feels like a compliment. I would be honored.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (26:27):

Exactly. You don't care.

Brianna Doe (26:29):

Oh my God, thank you so much. I appreciate the recognition.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (26:33):

And then, sorry, the second part was...?

Brianna Doe (26:35):

If it does make the internet more performative overall--

Qetsiyah Jacobson (26:39):

A bad thing, percent, the internet is so performative if the internet was...

Brianna Doe (26:43):

But is that a bad thing?

Qetsiyah Jacobson (26:44):

Well, in some way, for example, when we talk about politics and how voting turned out, everyone was liberal on the internet. Everyone was talking and doing all these things for engagement, and then the results came in. A lot of now political campaigns and stuff are very much rooted in social media, and social media is a big part. And if you're looking at data for audience sentiment and mentions and stuff like that, you can maybe think, Hey, we got this in the bag because look at how many people are supporting us. Look at how many people are talking about us positively. And so maybe you might overlook something or you might not put as much effort behind certain campaigns because you think, Hey, look online, we're doing great, and then you underestimate the opponent. That's how I look at it in that way. Yeah, it can be dangerous because you might think that you have it better than you have, especially with politics. I feel like that was a very big thing that I can think of that's a little bit dangerous. I mean, look at the state of the world.

Brianna Doe (27:47):

I think that's a flawless example. You're right, because the whiplash people felt myself included after the election. It was, and the thing is too, we could attribute that to many things. Maybe the algorithm, you're in your own corner of the internet, that's fine. But at the same time, the number of people who felt that level of whiplash and articulated that online lends me to believe that it was not just me, and that felt that way. Final question, Nicki Minaj then with everything we've talked about, what, if anything, could she do to be by you? Nothing. Nothing. So even if she apologized and started, I dunno, donating to The Trevor Project, and I don't even know what else.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (28:29):

Everything she does for me, personally, moving forward seems like I'm trying to save my career. You know what I mean? There's a level of trust I think that has been broken within her fan base and trust is really hard to gain back. It depends on what you've broken, and if trust is the main thing, I feel like that's going to be so hard to come back from. And then still, because it depends on the level of the kind of trust. Because if you look at Mikayla from TikTok, she lies all the freaking time...

Brianna Doe (29:03):

But no one here...

Qetsiyah Jacobson (29:04):

But nobody trusts her. Nobody, and nobody trusts her, but she still has a super engaged audience.

Brianna Doe (29:10):

True. That's very true. So I don't know. So if it's not trust, you got to build something else with them instead.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (29:15):

Which I don't know what she puts in her videos, but...

Brianna Doe (29:18):

I don't either. Well, Nicki Minaj couldn't get, I mean, I haven't liked her music in a couple of years anyway, but honestly, I don't think there's anything she could do.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (29:26):

Wait, sorry, can I add something real quick?

Brianna Doe (29:29):

Yeah.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (29:30):

I think the weirdest thing happened, and I don't know if it's because her team is behind it pushing in Spotify, but you know how in Spotify you have the DJ feature, and when you have DJ feature, it's just like an AI dj and they mix up music that you've been listening to, and they will introduce the artist and they'll be like, oh, here's a little bit of your most played artist, X, Y, Z. But it's super short. It's just like, Hey, here's Sean Paul, or hey, here's Pit Bull. But when it came to Nicki Minaj, they made an entire intro. They were like, Nicki Minaj, Grammy nominated artist who has been number one on the 50 hot 100 this many times, and she dah, dah, dah, dah. It was such a long intro, and I was like, did her team pay Spotify to introduce her like that? Because no other artist, especially because it was after she went on stage with Erica Kirk and stuff like that. Literally right after the whole backlash of that, that's the intro that she was getting on Spotify.

Brianna Doe (30:34):

I don't know much about the backend of Spotify, but I do wonder if you can put paid spend behind it just like you would with podcast advertising. Kind of like when a creator gets in trouble for something online and they start losing followers and then their team starts paying for more followers. Could be something like that too.

(30:49):

I did a whole host about Spotify and how they do business and where their money comes from and everything. And yes, they pay for promotions, stuff like that. There's a whole backend thing as an artist that you can pay to be promoted or be put into playlists and stuff. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. That's why I was saying...

(31:12):

I don't think it'll help her much, but I am curious what will happen with her and with Kanye and honestly kind of with Taylor Swift, I don't think she's going to get canceled. I think she have to do something insanely egregious, and she wouldn't, her brand would never allow it, but Kanye and Nicki Minaj, we will see.

Qetsiyah Jacobson (31:30):

We'll see.

Brianna Doe (31:31):

So thank you so much for stopping by. If you enjoyed this episode, just hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And again, Qetsiyah, thank you so much for joining. As always, thank you so much for having me.