The brands winning on TikTok have a backstage pass you don't know about

TikTok Shop looked like the next obvious move - until it wasn't.

In this episode, Gabrielle Noakes, E-commerce manager at Dixxon Flannel, joins me to get into what actually happens when a brand tries to rebuild its entire e-commerce strategy for TikTok. We break down why their limited edition drop model completely flopped, what they learned about how TikTok Shop users actually shop, and what it takes to build trust on a platform overrun with scam accounts and fraud ads.

We also get into something most brands don't talk about: the behind-the-scenes support TikTok quietly offers bigger brands that smaller ones never see, and what that actually means for the platform.

Highlights:
(00:00) Meet Gabrielle Noakes
(02:10) Why TikTok Shop didn’t work for their core strategy
(04:05) Limited drops vs. impulse buying - how people shop online
(06:20) What actually sells on TikTok Shop
(08:30) The strategy that failed on TikTok
(11:15) The audience mismatch problem
(14:40) Trust is a massive challenge on TikTok Shop
(22:10) The bigger shift: You can’t copy-paste strategy

Resources:

Subscribe to the Stop the Scroll Newsletter: https://briannadoe.substack.com/

Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianna-doe/ 

Gabrielle’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielle-noakes/ 

Check out Dixxon Flannel.: https://www.dixxon.com/

Transcript

Gabrielle Noakes (00:00):

Well, the short answer is really it hasn't. We tried to use that method that's really built up our website on the TikTok Shop setup, and it didn't really work out for us because when people shop our limited edition drops, they're often coming to our site because of a special collaboration that we've been promoing. And all of these really exciting pieces that we've been able to create are not what people are looking for when they come to TikTok.

Brianna Doe (00:39):

Hello, I am Brianna Doe, and this is Stop the Scroll. Let's get into the content that makes us stop, click, and care. So today we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, TikTok Shop, where I spend way too much money. TikTok Shop, it hasn't just shortened the path from discovery to purchase. It's fundamentally restructured how we want things. We used to seek out products based on preferences we already had. And in my opinion, now preferences are more surfaced for us in real time by an algorithm optimizing for conversion. I don't think the question is whether this is good or bad. I think it's more if your tastes are being predicted and served before you even articulate them to yourself, are they still your taste and is it more of a chicken and the egg situation? So for this conversation, I've brought on one of my favorite people and probably the most well-versed person in this.

(01:24):

Gabrielle Noakes, the e-commerce manager at Dixxon Flannel is here with us today and I'm so excited. So thanks for joining me.

Gabrielle Noakes (01:31):

Yeah. Hi, Brianna. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Of

Brianna Doe (01:34):

Course. So before anything else, can you just share a little bit of context about what Dixxon Flannel is and what your role looks like?

Gabrielle Noakes (01:40):

Yeah, of course. So Dixxon Flannel is obviously a flannel company. We've been around since 2013. We have seen instant growth over the last 13 years. It started with our founder selling flannels out of the back of his Scion at motorcycle rallies. And now we are up to over 150 employees and we hit our milestone goals of 125 million last year. So it's been incredible growth. My particular role at Dixxon is as the e-commerce manager to handle everything website generated, essentially. The user experience, the product launches and releases, because the way our business works is we do limited product releases. So we do at least three or four releases a week because everything is limited edition. And then just trying to improve the site, creating mobile apps, getting us onto TikTok Shop, which I've been working on for over the last year, I would say. So it's been a crazy experience, but I've really enjoyed it.

Brianna Doe (02:45):

Well, I think your role sounds really interesting. And I think one of the many things that I find interesting about Dixxon is that the business model is centered around this whole idea of the limited edition drop. I think a lot of brands toy with this for certain product launches or releases, but it's an entirely different beast, I'm sure, to actually build your e-commerce strategy around it. What I think is especially fascinating about that is that TikTok Shop, in my opinion, inherently isn't the platform where people can take advantage of limited edition drops in that way. You're more scrolling and impulse buying. So if Dixxon's whole thing is once it's gone, it's gone. How has that played out with TikTok?

Gabrielle Noakes (03:22):

Well, the short answer is really it hasn't. We tried to use that method that's really built up our website on the TikTok Shop setup. And it didn't really work out for us because when people shop our limited edition drops, they're often coming to our site because of a special collaboration that we've been promoing. We've worked with a lot of really exciting bands like Metallica and Slipknot and Three Days Grace and all of these really exciting pieces that we've been able to create are not what people are looking for when they come to TikTok. We found that most of our customers that were shopping us on there were, even if they were people that didn't or that already knew who we were, were buying more essentials. The first order we received on there was a pair of socks. Since then, we've been putting more of our evergreen items on the site because we are on TikTok because we do carry items that we restock.

(04:24):

It's mostly our flannels and our party shirts and bamboos at a limited edition, but we do have items that we bring back regularly, like our Chino Pants, our Chino Shorts. We have a whole work wear line for the blue-collar man. And so we bring that back and we've really been expanding upon that. And we actually recently created a heritage line of flannels is what we're calling it, which is some of our most popular flannel patterns that we've brought back permanently. So what we call our Redrum Flannel, it's a classic red and black kind of lumberjack style flannel. So we've been putting those onto our TikTok Shop and have found that that's been doing significantly better than anything limited edition because I think when you're scrolling, you're on TikTok and you're scrolling. At least for me, I know if there's something in the back of my mind that I know I need and I see it right there in front of me, I'm more likely to buy it.

(05:21):

So we've been selling more of our Chino Pants. We've been selling more of our hybrid shorts. So more of our restockable evergreen items are what does better on the TikTok algorithm.

Brianna Doe (05:33):

And what different methods did you try before deciding, okay, the collector mindset, for lack of a better term, isn't going to work here, these limited drops aren't going to work here. Did anything show more success than others before you pivoted to more of the heritage items?

Gabrielle Noakes (05:48):

The method we basically tried was just kind of the same thing we've done through all of our social media. Anytime we had an exciting collaboration coming out or we had a really cool colorway, even if it wasn't a collaboration being released, we'd make a video surrounding it and promoing it. We'd tag the products, we'd push it out in ads. We would really try and get it out to the audience. But I think one of the issues we were running into was I think with TikTok, a lot of people do, one, get concerned that it's actually the legit product. And so if it's a collaboration or something they're really excited for, they're going to go to the website to actually purchase it rather than TikTok because there are so many fraud. We've run into so many just fraud ads and fraud profiles and just scammers. And so that is a concern with TikTok, I believe.

(06:44):

But we also just found that Method wasn't really working because our audience is not on TikTok. We were assuming they were. And while our audience tends to lean, I'd say about 80% of our audience is male and they're probably anywhere from 40 to 65, very much the biker type of guy, older might not know technology or social media very well because they didn't necessarily grow up with it, realizing we've had to expand into a whole new audience on TikTok. So the method we've been using wasn't actually working for this new audience because they had no idea who we were.

Brianna Doe (07:23):

So who are you now targeting on TikTok? What's the demographic?

Gabrielle Noakes (07:27):

I mean, obviously we're trying to expand our audience. We've been creating more lines that we hope to appeal to either different genres of people. And I know people don't really fall into genres, but what I mean by that is we've created some lines that are more based on the skater vibe and the surfer vibe and communities that are going to have more of the younger generation because if we only focus on the generation we have, it's not going to be sustainable down the line. So we're trying to open it up and bring in a younger audience, but also teach them how the brand works so we can eventually get them off TikTok and onto our site.

Brianna Doe (08:09):

This is really fascinating because I think a lot of companies wouldn't pivot their business model so intentionally or strategically to cater to a different demographic or a different channel. I mean, I know there are going to be brands out there that will just keep trying to push the same model. No, we're just going to keep trying to limited drops, see what works, see how we have to adjust our messaging. Why do you think it is that your team decided to just kind of embrace it and shift? Because that seems like a pretty substantial shift to how Dixxon approaches their product lines.

Gabrielle Noakes (08:38):

I will say in the beginning of signing onto TikTok and getting set up with the shop, there was a lot of disagreement on the team of whether or not this was something we really wanted to do. We had members that really felt this could be a real avenue of revenue for us. And then others that thought there's no point in doing this, our audience doesn't use TikTok, what's the point in trying? It was kind of difficult to reach an agreement to finally just say, "Okay, here's what we're going to try. If this doesn't work, we'll try this. " And so obviously the people that wanted to continue on with our usual method, that's the method we tried first, discovered didn't work. And so then the other side was like, "Well, let us try it this way." And one motto that we say at Dixxon a lot is just because this is how it's always been done doesn't mean this is how it should continue being done.

(09:36):

If there's a better method or opportunity that we can take advantage of, we will. We've seen that with just even our employees. When I started there, probably, it's been about six years ago now, most of our employees were in that older generation. They were very much solely biker type guys. And now we have people that we've brought onto the team, specifically the marketing teams that are younger and they know about bikes, but they also know about extreme sports and they know about skating and surfing and all these other avenues that we hadn't originally thought about, but it's allowed us to really expand because we're always trying to remain open to new ideas. And so it was a bit difficult to get people to agree to make such a shift onto TikTok. But if it's going to work for us, which hopefully it will continue to see improvement, but it was a bit difficult getting there.

Brianna Doe (10:34):

Something you said earlier was interesting about how you've had different spam accounts pop up trying to impersonate Dixxon. That makes me wonder too about the idea of ... TikTok is, in my opinion, unique in the sense that you can scroll, you can really like somebody's one piece of content or one video, maybe even buy something that a brand just posted about and then keep scrolling and completely forget about them. I think it's just easier to do that on TikTok. And so I'm curious how trust plays a role in how you are approaching building an e-commerce strategy on TikTok Shop. It's a very broad question, but how are you thinking about trust and building more of a fan base rather than just an audience?

Gabrielle Noakes (11:15):

I mean, the scammer sites and the ads, they've been very difficult to deal with because they're getting so smart anymore. There are so many sites that we've run into that we have been unable to get taken down because when you click on their ad, it takes you to their URL, but it shows you all the rip-offs of our products. However, if you go to just that URL without clicking through the ad, it shows you some really generic women's clothing website, no matter how many times you type in the URL. And if you search Dixxon or search Flannel, nothing comes up. So they're getting more and more intelligent in how they do this. It's been hard to build that trust with a new audience because we're seeing so many of these ads popping up. We had to sign on with a new company whose whole goal is to take down these scam ads and scam website.

(12:17):

They have a relationship with Meta and TikTok so they can get these sites and ads taken down within hours. But when you run into issues like we have with some of these URLs, we just can't get them taken down because we can't prove that they're ripping us off. But even just looking at the comments on those ads, there are so many comments on the scam ads that I've seen, just even when I'm just scrolling, like I've been receiving those ads, comments of people saying, "This store is a scam, don't purchase from here," or, "This company is trash. They took my money but didn't give me anything." And so we've been really having to use our official accounts and official social media platforms to try and educate the audience that we have as much as we can. And we haven't necessarily nailed down a method to educate this new audience that we're trying to bring in to make them part of our fan base.

(13:17):

It's been really difficult, but it is something that we're always actively working on. And it does help that we do have reps at TikTok that we do meet with. We have assigned CSMs and an assigned tech manager who helps us out with that, but it's a challenge that we haven't quite overcome that we are trying to find the best method to do so. Well,

Brianna Doe (13:39):

And I think even taking it a layer deeper too, Dixxon has built an incredible cult following. I mean, my only biker I know is my brother-in-law, Mark, and he and his girlfriend are obsessed with Dixxon, absolutely obsessed, and I believe all their friends are too. Oh

Gabrielle Noakes (13:56):

Yeah. Yeah. My stepbrother was a huge fan of Dixxon before he even became my stepbrother. So when he found out that that was where I worked, he got really excited and he's a big biker guy. So yeah, it's everywhere.

Brianna Doe (14:09):

Well, yeah, and that's the thing. I think to your point earlier, the current demographic off of TikTok, that 40 to 60 or 65, you're right, you have to expand your audience to keep sustainable growth. Do you think you can develop a cult following on TikTok?

Gabrielle Noakes (14:24):

I think it's doable. I just don't think the method for it has been discovered or mastered yet necessarily. And this was something that I was actually thinking about earlier today, just not with brands. I was thinking about it in the idea of entrepreneurs that have made their followings on TikTok. Brittany Broski, she went viral for a video that she shared that was her being confused about the taste of kombucha, and now she has a whole show where she's bringing on celebrities. So I think that she's interviewing. So I think it's doable. I just don't think companies and brands have quite nailed down and mastered how to do it just yet.

Brianna Doe (15:09):

Is your CEO on TikTok?

Gabrielle Noakes (15:11):

No, our CEO typically stays away from social media.

Brianna Doe (15:14):

Well, then kind of switching gears really quickly, what's something you've observed so far on TikTok or TikTok Shop that you can't fully explain or that you think is really surprising by the way people are engaging?

Gabrielle Noakes (15:25):

Yeah. I mean, we're mostly trying to figure out why people are coming to us for mostly essentials on TikTok Shop. We just added a lot of new product onto the shop just this last week, and we added our workwear line on there, our new Canvas Work Pants and everything that we've added that's been evergreen and is more of an essential rather than something fun and exciting is doing really well. And we're trying to do some just AB testing to figure out why that might be, figure out if price is an issue because TikTok Shop does offer a lot of discounts on their products and we haven't set up any kind of discount process yet. We're testing different avenues like affiliates and what that looks like to see if maybe branching into more of the influencer realm is going to benefit us because TikTok is a lot of influencers and that's really where a lot of their traction comes from.

(16:27):

And I feel like too, just a lot of our pieces are not necessarily meant for impulse buying. When I think of impulse buying, I think of some of the things that I've been served and I get a lot of stickers for book talk theme stickers and like Kindle cover cases and just a lot of smaller things that don't typically aren't something I usually think about. So that's why it's been kind of surprising to see that what's doing the best for us is more of our essentials. We do plan to maybe put some smaller, more impulse style items on our shop. We do have tumblers, we do have key chains and see if that makes a difference as well within our user shopping experience.

Brianna Doe (17:14):

Have you found that this has impacted the AOV or the average order value? Is there a big discrepancy or big gap between what that looks like on TikTok Shop versus ... I don't know if you're on Shopify, but ...

Gabrielle Noakes (17:25):

Yes, we're on Shopify. Our Shopify AOV is significantly higher than TikTok Shop and we haven't received enough TikTok Shop orders for it to really have an effect on our Shopify numbers because we originally launched with TikTok Shop and then we had our shop completely taken down by TikTok. And so we had to go through the process again and relaunch after providing so much paperwork, so much proof essentially that we were the legitimate company. And so we haven't really pulled enough data from it to really get an accurate reading.

Brianna Doe (18:04):

So I'm curious, you mentioned that you have TikTok support that helps you, like an account manager, things like that. Are there things that they are having you optimize for that you wouldn't otherwise expect?

Gabrielle Noakes (18:14):

They have been strongly pushing the affiliates. They have so many campaigns and promos and things that they run through TikTok. And I've been thoroughly surprised at, even though it's something they're pushing heavily, how much control we have over it. So for example, this affiliate program, we just signed onto it because we're giving it a shot. And what it is, is we submit products from our shop that we will agree to send out samples of, and then these affiliates have to apply to us to be able to request these samples and then we send it to them and potentially create a partnership. But to even be able to apply to this affiliate program as one of the affiliates, you have to reach a certain standard. You have to have a proven generated dollar amount per month with other brands you've worked with. And then we get to select from the people that have applied who we want to send items to.

(19:25):

So if it's someone that doesn't necessarily fit any of the audiences we're trying to reach and it's not someone that we think we want to work with right now, we can turn them down. So that's been really shocking to see just how much control we have over it, considering how much control we didn't have when it came to getting our shop taken down. And it's been such a weird contrast, I guess.

Brianna Doe (19:50):

That is so fascinating. Have you figured out what success is going to look like with this affiliate model? This is what needs to happen for us to continue this. And you don't have to share. You can be as specific as you want to be.

Gabrielle Noakes (20:01):

To be completely honest, we haven't entirely nailed that down because this is something that we have been so hesitant to even sign on for because we personally view affiliates and working with influencers is kind of gimmicky. And Dixxon typically tries to stay away from that influencer or particular person we've worked with in that capacity. We've done sponsorships of different athletes. We have a female NASCAR driver who we've sponsored, and we have Travis Pastrana that we've sponsored, who he's known for all kinds of crazy stunt work that he does, like jumping a limousine over six buses and stuff like that. So we've been really hesitant to do it. And it's actually been something we've gone back and forth on since probably, oh, I would say November, most likely.

Brianna Doe (20:58):

November of 2025?

Gabrielle Noakes (20:59):

Yeah, November of 2025. And then we recently brought on a new team member who has both e-comm and marketing experience. And when I brought her into this call to introduce her to our TikTok CSM that we have, she was like, "Yeah, let's do it. We want to make money. Let's do it. " So we finally got the ball rolling on it and it was such kind of a last minute decision that we haven't actually nailed down what we want success to look like with it. So I think right now we're just testing the waters and seeing what becomes of it.

Brianna Doe (21:31):

Yeah, that makes sense. I think this is a complete, this question's out of left field, but this thought's out of left field, but I think it's so interesting that your team finds influencer marketing gimmicky when you do so many brand band partnerships. That is a form of influencer marketing. And even sponsoring the NASCAR driver, that is a form.

Gabrielle Noakes (21:52):

It is. It is. And I'm not the person that sits here and says it's gimmicky. I see the benefit of it for sure. And it's not that we necessarily haven't done versions of it, because yes, we've done sponsorships, but we've also sent, if we've seen someone on a TV show wearing our ... There's that TV show on National Geographic, it's like Gold Rush or something, like those people that gold hunting, there's a gentleman on there that wears our flannels all the time. So we sent him some flannels, but we did it under the idea of, "Okay, we're going to send these to you. You don't have to do anything with them if you don't want to. We just want to gift these to you. " And then if they put something out, we'll reshare it. I'm not sure why they feel it's so gimmicky, but for some reason that's the hill they've chosen to die on.

Brianna Doe (22:44):

I genuinely just think it's so interesting because that is actually influencer gifting, which that's a story. That's another episode. We'll talk about that another time.

Gabrielle Noakes (22:53):

Yeah.

Brianna Doe (22:54):

I love it. Is there anything else that you want people to take away from this? Anything that you've just found particularly interesting?

Gabrielle Noakes (23:01):

One thing that I've found really interesting is just how common these, going back to the scam sites and scam ads, how common these are because I think like I mentioned, we had to build our store twice because the first time we received a bunch of violations because we tried to sell some collaboration items on our shop. And so we got fully taken down because they assumed we were scammers. And so we had to go through a whole process of providing proof of our trademarks, providing a letter saying that we have the authorization to sell these collaborations and that they are legitimate collaborations. And it was a whole three-month-long process of getting everything approved and signed on. So it's been very interesting to see just how common these scam sites are and how difficult it's been to get them taken down is one thing I find interesting.

(23:54):

But if you can find a legitimate brand, just know they probably went through all kinds of hoops and hurdles to actually get their stuff onto TikTok Shop. And then another thing that I found really interesting, completely separate from the scams and the ads and fraud and all that is how much people assume TikTok is focused on the algorithm or it's based on the algorithm, but there is actually so much that happens behind the scenes with different, if you're a large enough brand that really influences the algorithm.

Brianna Doe (24:32):

Tell me more, Gabby.

Gabrielle Noakes (24:35):

Before we got our shop up for the second time, we did not have an assigned CSM. We did not have an assigned tech person. We just put our shop up, it got taken down and we were like, "Well, what do we do now?" And so it's been interesting to see just how much effort and time TikTok puts into their larger brands that are willing to sell on their shop. I can think of so many smaller shops that probably don't get the same benefits that we do. Our tech person will reach out and ask, "Do you want us to boost any ads? Do you want us to focus on any of your particular products that you want us to push a little harder?" Our CSM is regularly talking to us about affiliate programs and different campaigns coming up that are meant for brands of our size that are not available to some of these smaller brands.

(25:29):

It's really interesting to see just while a lot of it is algorithm based, there is also so much else going on and it's almost kind of like you have to be a member of the club to get the real benefits and do really well on TikTok Shop.

Brianna Doe (25:44):

Man, I have a million and one questions, but I feel like that will just open a can of worms. We should do a part three sometime, touch base in six months and see where you're at with the affiliates and then talk about it. So I think that's really interesting. I think I'm sure you hear this phrase all the time or version of this phrase, like the algorithm is listening to us or our phones are listening to us. And I've been doing a lot of research about that for a newsletter article and kind of diving into, okay, are phones actually listening to us, how are algorithms manufactured on the backend to actually kind of inform what we're interested in and also speak to our current interests and how much of it is pre-planned. So I just think that's really interesting. Fascinating. Okay, amazing. Well, I'm fighting the urge to ask you more questions on that, but I think we should actually plan on doing part two in six months.

(26:33):

Okay.

Gabrielle Noakes (26:34):

Yeah, that sounds great.

Brianna Doe (26:35):

Well, thank you so much for stopping by, Gabby. And if you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And for more on what's shaping the definition and demand or on the content that we consume, you can sign up for my Stop the Scroll newsletter. The link is in the show notes and I will see you in the feed.