Ep 107 Have you tried DYSTOPIAN ROMANTASY? Why you need to read Above the Ashes + Deep Dive!

Did you read The Hunger Games or Divergent and love it with your whole heart but want more adult romance… or maybe even some fantasy? Do you love dystopian shows like The Walking Dead and Fallout but wish the entire time for those main characters to just kiss already!? We know we’re not alone in this, and we know that Above the Ashes by K.M. Lister, book one in her Survivors of the Smoke series, will scratch that itch.

Today’s episode is our follow up deep dive into this dystopian romantasy after our spoiler free author interview! We talk about all things post-apocalyptic and dystopian with one of our favorite indie authors, get to know her story and inspiration, and discuss themes, sequels, characters, and even some fun announcements. So today we’re diving into ALL the spoilers, giving our five sentence summary and reviews, and basically convincing you all to read this book!

Above the Ashes has multi-pov, found family, hidden identity, witches, fae, a curse, multiple realms, a slowww burn, and all the amazing world building we expect from the first fantasy book in a series! It leaves us with an amazing cliffhanger and the promise that book two will take us to other realms and expand this dystopian hellscape in the most unique ways. And we cannot wait! 

Stick around for all this, a fave and fail Disney cruise and upcoming reads edition, and a smash or pass with a really big lumberjack selling paper products, and a classic tiger from a childhood classic.

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Check out our interview with K M Lister ⬇️

https://youtu.be/lgcGfz_NxXY?si=mBNyhs1l8FCC6OS8

Check out these author interviews? ⬇️

Penn Cole talks with us about Strong Female Characters, Feminist Themes, and her debut bestselling Spark of the Everflame Series! https://youtu.be/7ukNImyoObw?si=7C3Y9kOUMN4hfcKb

Check the official Follow Up Author Interview with Lindsay Straube of the Split or Swallow Universe all about Between Two Kings! https://youtu.be/OW1cxXTVcTc?si=oOxVIzbIheET_bNE

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Transcript

think I'm going to die in this house. It's like the theme of like our lives now. Hey, do you like Walking Dead? Do you like Fallout? Do you like fantasy? You'll like this. So, hey, powers that scare you and beans. Yeah.

Welcome to the Besties in the Books podcast, guys. I'm Liz. And I'm Ashley. And today we're going to be doing our deep dive for Above the Ashes by none other than the amazing KM Listister. In case you guys haven't seen the interview, we had her on for a spoiler-free interview discussing Above the Ashes and basically why you need to read it because like you guys need to. It is so good. So check that out. She is an indie published author. It is a dystopian romanty. Dude, the way she blended dystopian, post-apocalyptic, and fantasy was so freaking cool. Oh my gosh. So, read it. It's going to be a part of a series. It's Oh, I'm just so excited. I'm so excited to read the rest of it whenever it comes down the pipeline. Oh, it's very unique. For sure. For sure. It's like very different than anything that I've ever read before. And the physical copy is so pretty, guys. Also, cuz I had read most of it, I think almost all of it on Kindle. Um, I didn't realize that there was also some really cool art in the back of the book. I just have to show you guys this, too. Look at how pretty that is. It's so great. So pretty. So beautiful. I mean, we've been singing the praises of Shackled Serpent by Cam Listister for years now. If you haven't read that yet, read it. She she announced on the interview that she's coming out with audio over the summer hopefully. So an audio book of it. So if that's what you're waiting for, it's coming. It's so good. But it's also on Kindle, so you can totally read it. I mean, there's paperback and hard cover of that, too. But it's there. It's there. Just read it. That's a standalone, so if you're not wanting to go into like a whole series or wait, you can read that one right now. Um, but Above the Ashes was such a good book. It was so good. So about that. very different from um the Shackled Serpent as well. Yeah. And this will be um book one. So it's book one in the Survivors of the Smoke series. So other ones coming down the pipeline. If you want all the insider info, listen to that interview. Yeah. So today's episode will be spoilerfree for the first 15 minutes or so while we get into our um basic star and spice ratings for this book. But then we'll get into our deep dive after that. We'll make sure to, you know, give you guys the warning that spoilers are coming. But before we get into all that, we just wanted to say thank you so much for being here. Seriously, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and your book to come and take a listen on in. We hope you're having a super good day, whatever you're doing. Are you doing laundry like I'm always doing? Are you driving? What are what are you what responsibilities are you avoiding? Or are we helping motivate you? Whatever it is, thank you so much for choosing to put us on. If you're not followed and subscribed yet, please make sure you do. Everywhere your life is a favorite podcast, including YouTube, we're besties in the books podcast everywhere. Also Tik Tok and Instagram. You can also join us on Fable if you're looking for a virtual book club with less commitment because we have monthly book club picks that are recommended by you guys and voted by you guys. So that's over at Fable at Bessies in the Book Club. We're always reading something really good over there. I I feel like the book club very rarely lets us down. Like very rarely. Even if the book was bad, like we're all having the conversation is good. Exactly. Sometimes like that's where you need to be like, am I reading this right? What's happening? Yeah, totally. The validation is nice. Is nice. So, should we just start off with We haven't done one of these in a while. Just a basic fame and fail of the week. Yeah, let's do it. Let's go. All right. Uh, my fave so far of this week was reading an arc of CJ Leed's new book, Headlights. Um, which you guys have probably heard us, you know, talk about her on the podcast in the past. She wrote the book Mavefly, which a lot of you guys are probably somewhat familiar with at this point. And then her follow-up novel, American Rapture. This is her third book. Um, and it so far is my favorite of hers yet. So, I'm excited for you guys to read it. It's out on June 9th. That definitely was this this week's highlight for me for sure. Uh, infin It's an Infinity Star read. Yeah, guys. And it it's horror for sure, but it's just amazing the things that authors can do with horror as far as like mirroring such important themes of life. So, I'll just leave you with that. Don't want to talk too much about it. Yep. And my fail, Ashley, sorry, is that instead of reading the things I was supposed to be reading for this week and for the podcast, uh, I was reading that instead. which I did call you out a little bit for that last night. Yeah. Like Ashley, I don't have enough time for this. Like maybe you would have if you didn't read that other 500 page book. I couldn't not. Yeah, for sure. There's there's certain books that it's like I have it in my hands. It's literally in my physically in my hands and I can't it's just staring at me from the table and I'm supposed to not read it. Like that's crazy. Yeah. Well, and the ones that we needed to reread, well, they're rereads, too. So, then it's hard because it's like, well, it's not new. So, yeah. Although, I will say it's like the rereads that um I am doing for the deep dives that we're covering on the podcast right now are excellent, too. So, we can say it too, you guys, cuz they they need to know what's coming. We're doing a deep dive on when the moon hatched because hello, we love it and not enough people have like discussed that. And then, um you know, we're reading rights of story right now. We're waffling. So, you let us know if we need it because this video is going out timely enough that you can let us know if we need a deep dive episode rehashing recapping the Shield of Sparrows book because we both reread it already. I My vote is I should so much happened. So much happened. And it's an Infinity Star read for me too the second time especially. And so just there there's so much When the Moon Hatched, Infinity Stars too. there. These are all really good. So, it's all it's all good problems to have. It's just I did not care budget my time. You Yay. You had to do what you had to do to get that little endorphin dopamine. Whatever. I need I needed the dopamine hit, guys. It's been rough over here. And um literally when I say like and I even I DM'd this to CJ Lead. I was like, I've never cried more in a book in my entire life. Literally, I looked at the pages. I want to say it's like a 400page book. I cried for at least the last 100 pages. Wow. Like the way this woman can like just get into your soul is like next level. So, no regrets. However, it's going to be an interesting next few days as I read 10 million pages. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm doing the audio on the rereads because then because it's a more of a refresher for me, right? So, and it went well and the audio is good. Um, which we'll talk about if we do the deep dive. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Okay. So, what about you? What was your favorite fail of the week this week? Well, guys, I just came back from the Disney cruise, freaking Epcot. Oh my gosh. So, it's going to be hard to pick. I mean, if you're not following me, so shameless plug for me. I'm starting to post again. I made it a point on my trip. I'm like, I need to get back to posting on my Instagram. So, Ashley Alex is my Instagram, which is bookish things and life things and Disney things now, and I'm posting all the fun stuff over there because it was such a good time. Uh, we did the Disney Wish cruise that ported out of Port Canaveral. We did a four-night cruise. I This was a make orb break cruise for me. That's like I haven't been sold on cruises yet. Even though Liz and I had a great time, I could have fun anywhere, but like the cruise itself, do I need to do that part, right? And so my kids wanted to do it. My husband wanted to do it. So I'm like, let's if Disney can't do it, I'm out. I'm can't I'm doing doing this. Well, I'm in. We got the bug. They the wish that ship is gorgeous. Everything was so clean. I love a buffet, but I don't love the self-service sneezing, coughing, questionable food. They serve you at the buffets. Like, it's so the washing stations, people are actually washing their hands. Everything was amazing. The shows were so good. The rooms were incredible. The bed was incredible. The turn the service amazing. 10 stars. Extra tips to all the servers and the room service and the guy that does the turnown service. Oh my gosh, we were obsessed. So much so that my husband totally has the bug and is like, "When can we book the next one?" So, I was shocked on that. Totally shocked. My fail is that like I honestly thought four nights would be enough on the ship. Um, so it was always do at least seven. Like you Well, because I built in, you know, I finagled in cuz I've always wanted to go to Disney World and it's been like a dream of mine not only to go but also go with my family. Well, I found out officially that I don't think my family likes the parks very much. So that's sad, but like I do, but luckily my best friend does. So Liz can go with me and like I'm somebody that I would go by myself if I needed to. So that's fine. Or like they can go. They love the resort. We stayed at the Caribbean Beach Resort. They loved it. They loved the pools, everything about that. They're just not made for like my rope drop, early rope drop to fireworks, like you know, non-stop. Cuz I love the rides. I like everything. But for somebody who hasn't experienced the rides, they were a priority for me at Disneyland because I go all the time. I'm like, okay, to not be in line for things, right? Like whatever. I'm going to pick and choose my tops. But because there's so much at Epcot, that's why we picked it that we hadn't experienced yet. We People were telling me, "Oh, I hope you're not going to be bored there. Oh, I hope there's enough to do." So, I'm thinking this park might not have enough. So, it might be more like I was expecting to be shopping around and looking at the different countries. Barely did any of that. I did about half the stuff that there was to do. I was not bored. There are so many rides we didn't even get to ride. So many countries you didn't even check out. Like I wanted to do so much shopping and I think I went into one shop. I'm just like all the things that I needed to buy. So, it would take so much for me to be bored at any Disney park. That's true. Yeah. Like I don't even know how you accomplish that, you know, like even they were like there's something for everyone. They had freaking light. That's what sold my husband to want to go back to Epcot. He's like I I would get a pass if I lived nearby for that that they do like concerts for the Flower and Garden Festival. It's like real bands. Like the guy New Found Glory's played there. They played there last year and they do a set and then the guy who does like Stacy's mom has got it. They're playing the next day. So he was so bummed because he really wanted he's like it's probably only that one song but I want to see it. So he's a big live music person and so are my kids. So they they could just hang out there and I could go ride the ride. So yeah, my fail is like it's never enough time. Like the cruise even. I feel like there was so much that we didn't even go get to explore because it was a big ship and there's only so much time you have. So yeah, we're looking to go again. We need to we'll probably do a a short local one because my daughter did get seasick the last day, so we're a little we didn't do like the placeholder discount or anything, but you can get a lot of last minute discounts and we have a port next to us. We might do a smaller ship just to get like the vibes. As a mom, I didn't have to freaking cook or clean for anybody or just as a person. That was amazing. Like that was like the first vacation where I didn't really have to do anything. Honestly, that's why we love cruises because it's like we always do like a week, although my husband's looking at some longer ones for us to do in the future. Um, which would be great because I'm like great, let's just go for as long as you want. I don't care. Um, but yeah, it's like that's why we like it because you can turn you can actually turn your brain off. It's like food is here, transportation is here. If you book your excursions ahead of time, the excursions are already done. The entertainment's done. Like, you just have to go where you go, and if you don't feel like going anywhere, you can just wander around. You know what I mean? It's like, great. Yeah. I think that's the hardest thing for this Disney cruise was like uh the FOMO. It's like having like accepting for the next one that you're not going to do everything. And so, we like we chilled a lot. We did the spa pass. It was so worth it. Oh my gosh. cuz we just love being lizards and it was so quiet and we'd have to fight for the jacuzzi's. But uh the trivia, you know, listen, hey, maybe I'm just aging into the cruise demographic here, but it was all up our alley. I don't know if it was cuz it's Disney, but we did uh we went to trivia, my husband and I, for it was more I think it was 80s songs. So, he we did like okay. We got we came in a little bit late, but we did like okay, but no, we weren't sweeping sweeping the stakes or anything. The next night we did early 2000s. Oh yeah. What I with one group beat me. I got 37 out of 40 uh answers, right? And I thought I had it, man. And then the group next to us had four people and they won this cute like it's a freaking Mickey medal. It's so cute. So I was like, I want that medal. I was like that lady like I want that. Like I'll get it for you, honey. Like just try to figure out how to get it. I'm like, no. He's like, I'm going to go sweet talk the lady. I'm like, she's not going to give it to you. Like it's like the the Disney version of the Geller Cup. You're like, "I'll fight you." Literally, I'll fight you. Yeah. So, and it was country. It was freaking the Carrie Underwood like the name of her song. And then it was a Coldplay name of his song. Like it was like the three and then it was uh this one it's this band now I'll remember it. AFT. I can't remember what the song is now, but it was like a one hit wonder name of the band. So, we got the song name right. Oh, man. But it was fun. So, I was like, "Wow." Nice. trivia is now um well something I could participate fully. Well, we did Yeah, we did Taylor You guys did Taylor Swift. We did Lord of the Rings. Taylor Swift and Lord of the Rings. Those were fun. Those were fun. Yeah. So, okay. There was probably more There was a lot more trivia that we just did. Oh, oh my gosh. My husband, can I tell you the bingo? We did bingo. We Yeah, the second to last day. Yeah. Super fun. We didn't get close at all. Like the first guy won. The second one had like 17 winners, so they all ended up getting like five bucks and then the next ones were fine. So then the last day was the jackpot, right? So we're at the pool and he and I look at the time. I was like, "Oh, you want to go do go do the jackpot? Like go have some fun. Go do that." And um he's like, "Okay, I'm going to go." He would have won us almost $6,000. The p the group behind him won the last. So it was three of them left with one number needed. It was a blackout. One number. So it was like G. Everybody had a G and he was like G53. So they call it. So they have them all standing up. They call G59.

His heart, bro. So the group behind them got it. They, you know, everybody was so excited, but it's like, oh my gosh, it was almost 6. We've never gotten that close. I would rather be far away. Yeah, totally. Close to winning. Oh my gosh. Like that's how they get you. I know. I'm Yeah, I'm not a big I don't really love bingo. My husband likes it and his mom likes it, so we'll go play bingo, but I'm not that into it. I'm all about the pool time and the entertainment. If you're on like a big new fancy ship, the entertainment will be top tier. And so that's what I'm about when I go on cruises. Like that's my favorite. Yeah, dude. And the restaurants were the Arendelle restaurant. It's live. They're live singing the whole time. It was incredible. Olaf comes out and it's like legit, dude. They come up to your tables. The Avengers one was so good. All the food was so good. A lot of vegan options on this ship cuz I know each can be a little different. Yeah. And you didn't have to ask. It was just there, you know, on the menu and the buffets. Yeah. I don't remember like I don't remember what ship we went on. because we did a 7-day Disney cruise, but it was a Mexican Riviera one on a smaller ship. This was also though in 2019. Um, and so the vegan options were not good. Yeah. I didn't realize it's been that long for you. That could be a big difference. Yeah, cuz like food like bloggers and everything is a thing now, too. Like that was just starting. I remember you had to like find vegan accounts back then. Now it's like easier to find Disney influencers and stuff. So that's made a big impact on the food quality, not only on the cruise ships, but in the parks. At the park. Yeah, for sure. So I wonder if these Well, if I end up trying one of these, I'll let you know. The local ones, too, for sure. I don't know if that's like more of like the bigger, newer ships. If the smaller ships will offer it, too, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're making me Well, me and my husband might book a cruise for like early October, it's looking like, actually. So, yeah. Yeah. Um, so we want to try Virgin next time because we've done at this point we've done Disney. We're cruise people. Make fun of us all you want. We don't care. Um, we've done Yeah. Disney, Norwegian, and Royal Caribbean. And we've liked Royal Caribbean big ships, like the big new ships the best. Um, but yeah, we want to try Virgin next time because we've heard that their food's like the best. So yeah, for like Good things about that. Yeah. Jeff wants to do Royal C. We'll do it when the girls are older. The big ships of Royal Caribbean in the Caribbean. Mhm. Mhm. But right now, the kids club at Disney, we can't beat that. They wanted to be there the whole time. Oh my gosh, it was amazing. They loved it. So amazing. I love that. Yeah. O making me want to be on on the My favorite thing honestly is just if you've never been on a cruise before, get a balcony room so that you can sit out there and you can watch the sunrise and the sunset and like have your coffee out there. It's like unmatched. Oh my gosh. In Disney I don't remember if this was the same on our Royal Caribbean that we went on with you, but the room service was all included at Disney 24/7. All you had to do is tip and it was good. I think so. I don't remember like on I think breakfast was included or like the continental breakfast or something on the Royal Caribbean. I hated the food on that cruise. So yeah, it's very hit or it's very hit or miss because like on the bigger like on the big Royal Caribbean cruises we've been on cuz we did a big one that was like Italy and Greece and then we did one that was like obviously in the Caribbean um like the vegan food was actually really good. Um but then on the smaller one we did with you guys to Alaska, the food wasn't that good. Um so yeah, it's just it's very like Did Kanan like the food? I don't think so. Yeah, because even the soft serve was like weird. I don't know. Yeah, because I was turned off from soft serve because of that. And then I had Disney's and I was like, "Oh, this is good." Well, it feel like it would be nice if like you could just go and like expect a company to have the same standard, but it's but that's not the case. It's like literally it varies so much between how new the boat is, how big the boat is, like we'll change the food quality, the entertainment quality, like all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's unfortunate. Okay, so anyway, this is not about that, but you're just like putting me in cruise mode now. It's also because for me it's like summer. It's like there's nothing better than reading my book by the pool on a cruise with my Diet Coke and whatever snacks I happen to acquire at that time. It's like that is my favorite thing ever. Well, and now actually, yeah, this was because the cruise that me and you went on, that was the most reading that I got done and then this would be the second to most. Otherwise, I ain't reading on vacation. So, I think it's because we can actually chill. Yeah. That's what it is. That's why I like it. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like the longer That's why like the cruises that we do, we like it when it's like at least seven days because then you get like a port day, a sea day, a port day, a C day, and it's like the C days are great because you're not doing anything. Yeah, that's why we want to do a local one cuz I don't want to get off at the Mexico port ones that they go to cuz I've already done that and I don't want to do it and I won't feel obligated because these Disney these Disney islands are incredible. Yeah, it's nice to have a variety. Yeah, Kanan, my husband, he's been looking into um like a Panama cruise because he really wants to like see the Panama Canal and stuff obviously. And then I've had some clients go down there recently and tell me it's amazing. And I guess they have some Panama cruises that are literally like two weeks long. Yeah. Um and I'm like, "Hey, if you could take the time off work, let's go." Because that just means that I'm going to get to chill and yeah, read by the pool even longer and get to see stuff. It's a good balance. But anyways, we're Yeah, Royal Caribbean. Hey, Disney cruises sponsor us so we can go on cruises. Go on cruises and read. I know. I'm like, "Hey, does anyone do like a bookish cruise?"

Maybe we should moment moment of silence for a bookish cruise. Let's really push our podcast share to everybody that you know like we got to make this happen and the only way we can do that is from you guys. So share it is caring. Let's all get on a cruise together and read. Oh my gosh. It's like the finest cruise of all time. Yeah, it's great. Well, hey, what? We got to talk. We got to talk. Yeah, that would be like so behind like what if we just freaking organize a bookish cruise where it's like everybody has to pay and we just tell you this is the ship that we're going to be on at these dates. Get there and we'll freaking make activities and which activities involve we're going to be here reading. This is what we're reading. Let's go. We'll have book clubs after like Yeah. Hey, I mean that sounds like a good idea to me. What book convention on the on the sea? Freaking bands are playing now. Something corporate on Gloria has done cruises. Why can't we have a book cruise? I know. Well, sounds great. Well, if you're still around after all of this discussion about cruising and I'm like, what what else even have we gone off on tangents about? Anyway, um then here we are. We should probably at some point get into talking about Above the Ashes by KM Listister. Here we go. Okay, so uh should we just get into our spoilerfree star and spice rating of this book? Let's go. Let's go. And if we'd recommend it, and if so, to who? I feel like we keep forgetting to do that. And I feel like that's super important. So, let's make sure to do that. Include that as well. Okay. So, you want to go first? You want me to go first today? Sure, I'll go first. All right. So, you know, in the genre that it is is kind of a newer blend for me being dystopian, post-apocalyptic, and fantasy in one, and I'm loving that. So, for me right now, it's going to be a five stars because I'm still thinking about it. I can't wait for the next one. I absolutely loved everything about it. And the way CM Listister can instantly transport you into the world, I'm obsessed with. Who is it good for? Hey, do you like Walking Dead? Do you like Fallout? Do you like anything post-apocalyptic? You'll like this. Do you like fantasy? You'll like this. like twist on it. So, that's who I think it's going to be good for. People that also want to see some character growth and development, I think we'll be interested in the plight of these characters journey as well. And I'm so excited to see like what comes next after this. Well, yeah. I mean, it leaves us spoilerfree, but it leaves us on a on a cliffhanger, of course, since we do know that this is going to be multiple books. So, yeah. Um, okay. So, I rated this book a four star. So, loved it, enjoyed it. I feel like I'm ready for it to amp up a little bit. I do love the merging of dystopian. I am a big Fallout fan and if you guys listen to the review or to the interview, you know that Cam Listister is as well. And so, um, I'm waiting for us to get a bit more of like the fantasy element because this book's very kind of dystopian, and we'll get into that with the five sentence summary, of course, once we get into spoilers. Um, but I feel like this might be one of those where once I read more of the series, it might bump it up to a five star for me. Right now, it's four. Um, which is still really good and really enjoyable. I feel like I flew through this book for sure. like once I started it, I think it took me like maybe 2 days to read it or something like that cuz I was definitely really into the story. Um, and I do love a good cliffhanger. I'm not one of those people who hates that. I loved it. Um, and I feel like the cliffhanger definitely took us more from traditional post-apocalyptic dystopia into the fantasy element. So, that's exciting. Um, really like the characters, especially the two main female characters. Love the multip. Um, and so yeah, I mean I would recommend this to anyone who like maybe you've read dystopia like uh, you know, Divergent or Hunger Games and things like that and you're like, h, maybe I want to dabble a little bit more into fantasy. This would be a really great segue. It would be good for anyone who wants to get into fantasy but might be a little bit intimidated by like a really over complicated magic system or world building. This is like a great segue for that. And it I mean we've read The Shackled Serpents. We know that the world building and the magic system might get more complicated in book two, but this might be a good like intro. You know, those are the people this would be especially good for. I mean, if you already like dystopia, you'll like this. If you already like fantasy, you'll like this. Um, slowburn. If you like a good slowburn, you'll like this. Um, I think for me that was a big difference was that I really love, you know, I really love the Hunger Games. I really love Fallout, but it's missing that romance element and you can tell that that's where this is going. Um, and so I feel like if that's what you kind of crave in those stories, but we're not getting like that more adult vibe um, in that way, then you'll probably really like this, too. So, that's what I am going with right now. And then as far as the spice goes, I just gave it a one spice because it's like a little bit there's like a sprink there's a sprinkle sprinkle, but it's like it's a true slow burn. So, we'll see what happens in book two. Very much uh looking forward to that for sure. Yes, for sure. So, should we get into the spoiler section with the five sentence summary?

Spoilers coming in. So, if you haven't read this yet, save this, go on Kindle, grab it, read it, consume it, vibe with it, come back to this and watch it later. But if you want to find out a little bit more, you just know you're going to get spoiled on some stuff. So, hey, that's on you. Yeah. Yep. It's like enter at your own risk at this point. You know, that's where we're at. Okay. So, five sentence summary of Above the Ashes by KM Listister. 5 years after the darkest day, when suddenly a magical curse was placed upon the upper world, turning it into a post-apocalyptic wasteland, Ellery Foss, the half witch, half fay princess of the underworld, is traveling alone, trying to survive the dystopian hellscape after her only way back home was destroyed. And she simultaneously learns that on the darkest day she was cursed with the inability to touch any living thing without turning it to ash when she is discovered by a group of rebels called the pack. Ooh. One. One. Kai, Reena, and Jason have been traveling together since the world collapsed and they lost their families, helping the people that they can and hunting for the siren, an infamous woman known for graping and killing innocents are feeding them to the wake, a tribe of cannibals. When they capture Ellery and are shocked to discover that a fay is in the upper world, since all Ellery wants is to get home and not harm anyone, she travels willingly with them, refusing to show or use her powers. roof. Two two. Their steam car is stripped bare, so they travel on foot in the direction of the siren's camp, slowly bonding over their days of travel. Even though the pack doesn't really trust Ellery, and she doesn't trust them, relying on each other to survive by hiding, hunting, and warding off cannibals until Ellery decides it's safer for her to escape and separate herself from the band of outlaws. outlaws. She soon realizes, just like Kai, that when they're separated, they feel an unmistakable pull towards one another. Ooh, three. Interesting. The pack reaches Arcala, a settlement run by a reformed cannibal and siren follower named Sheriff Nells, where they run into Ellery again. And from that point on, they choose to travel east together until they part ways. But before they can get far, they encounter a group of wake cannibals with their prisoners. Ellery uses her powers for the first time to help free them and to help them escape. And it's revealed that she's the princess of the underworld. Four. They reach Mount Mend and are immediately ambushed. Ellery is taken hostage by the cannibals and taken to the siren and Eric, the leader of the wake, where they torture her until the pack comes to rescue her. And it's revealed that Kai is actually the prince and son of the upper king, the one responsible for the darkest day. He used the magic of a witch he held hostage to conjure the spell so that he could rule without opposition. So Ellery decides they need to save her. But what they discover is that the witch has been manipulating the king all along. And in the fight, Ellery turns him to Ash and tries to kill the witch, but is possessed by her instead.

Five.

Dude, isn't that crazy, guys? Oh my goodness. That's crazy. I didn't see the end coming. I thought she was going to get there and realize that this witch had been like held hostage for all these years and she was going to be like somehow related to her and then it just like went a completely other I mean she could technically still be related to her. We don't know. Um but she went like this other completely different direction. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And now she's possessed. It's very word collaller coded. Yes. like Val possession. Yeah. Yeah. Um that's what it reminded me of. Anyway, um so that's why if you've read this, you're like, we need book two because literally she's possessed right now. Like what's going to happen? Yeah. So, all right. What were three tropes that you loved? Three tropes that I loved. Uh where's my list? Okay. realistic, more realistic, semi-realistic FMC, specifically with the way that she handles these brutal confrontations, you know, and threats where she freezes. She's not always the heroine and she's not always doing the right thing. And CM talked about this in the interview. It's like giving the characters more more that human nature side and less always the hero saving the day side. Because while we obviously we love to read about that and that's amazing and we all hope to do the right thing in the right moments sometimes she doesn't make the right decisions or they don't make the right decisions and it's just humanizing to see even if so she's like obviously not a human and she's like this witch you know fa but even she's making the wrong decision sometimes you know it's like more relatable. Yeah. Yeah. because it's like she's literally dealing with like these horrible atrocities. It's very like, you know, um I don't know if you guys saw the new I can't even remember what it is. 28 years later. Is that where we're at now? It's years. Whatever. Um but yeah, like it's that very I mean there's not zombies here, but it's like you have to watch out for other stuff, right? like cannibals and like people just trying to steal all your stuff or kill you or whatever. It's like it's very bleak out there. And so, you know, it's so easy to say, "Oh, well, she has this power where, you know, she touches you, she'll just turn you to ash." But it's like she's not she's also like has a conscience and doesn't want to just like indiscriminately go around and just like be killing everyone all the time, you know? So, yeah, I I appreciated that, too, for sure. It was refreshing. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Yep. And then also slow burn tension. It was done very well. It was done very well. A classic. Also twists. Loved the twists. Yeah. Yep. It's what sealed the deal for me. So Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the twist you don't see coming is always nice. You know what I mean? I feel like I We love being blindsided. That's one reason why we read fantasy, you know? Yep. Um I put found family. We love a good found family and you know we talked about this with Cam a little bit too just about how the multiple POVs were almost completely necessary in this just because of the fact that no one trusts each other. So it's like you know for probably a good threequarters of the book because you can't you can't just trust people like otherwise that's how you end up like you know enslaved by these crazy people or whatever. Yeah. Um, and so the multi-pov is nice, but it's also nice to hear the inner monologue of all the characters as they're learning to trust each other and turn into this like fa found family unit. So yeah, love a good found family. I also put secret identity because I loved the twist that Kai was actually the prince. Yeah, because I kind of suspected that obviously he was going to be more important than like uh like more important I guess you could say in like the grand scheme of the world than like we knew. Yeah. Um I didn't think he was just some random like re rebel dude, you know? I was like there's got to be more going on here. But I didn't see him being the like prince, especially not of the king who like started this whole Yeah. you know, freaking thing. Yeah. Um, so I love a good secret identity and then I also put multiple worlds. Yeah. Because obviously we're dealing with the upper world. This whole book takes place in the upper world. Um, which is very similar to like it would be like, you know, a regular Earth dystopia should a post-apocalyptic event happen, right? Or what we would imagine it to be. Um, so we're not dealing with magic and things like that until the very end where you have like the witch stuff going on aside from just the curse, right? Um, so what's exciting about that is like obviously Ellery is from the underworld, but she is not able to get back there. So we know that's where book two is going. So, it's like we have that to look forward to where it's like we have this whole other world that like we haven't even found anything out about really um with all of their own political issues too between the fay and the witches and like the war that lasted hundreds of years and like all that kind of stuff. So, I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, totally. What about What about a trope you hated? I couldn't think of any one like there's no miscommunication. There's antirust, but that's fine. Uh there's no pregnancy trope. Did you think of any I mean I just put This is a specifically I would say in most things a horror or dystopian trope. I really get grossed out by cannibalism. Yeah. Yes. I know that like I really don't like it. Like duh. You know what I mean? Like no one likes that, but like um yeah, it's just there are certain It's extra horrific. It's extra horrific cuz it's like this it's not just the cannibalism piece. It's the fact that like there's um what's scarier getting eaten or being so desperate that you have to eat someone? Oh my gosh. Do you know what I mean? It's like that's what is I mean as a vegan too like uh it's like extra gross to me. So that's what I put cuz I was like anytime you bring cannibals into the mix I'm like ah like it freaks me out. That was one of my when I was watching Walking Dead for anybody that did that the tribe that is is cannibalistic is it's the worst. It's the worst and I'll never get those visions out of my head. I mean, I remember even just this is so random, but it's like you guys know there are certain things from like our childhood in the '9s as millennials that it's just that it like why did it's like the Bermuda Triangle, right? Like why were we all obsessed with the Bermuda Triangle for a while? It's like the Donner Party. Like I was like so freaked out by the Donner Party and so obsessed with it for a while, right? Oh my gosh. like it's just right there with like the Oregon Trail obsession and it's like it just stick it stuck with me for some reason. I don't know. Like the stories that have come out of that. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I feel you. But you know Yeah. So that'll be mine too. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like if you're painting or a post apocalyptic uh hellscape you're you're achieving you're achieving your uh goal, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. It's true. So, what about a micro trope that you either really liked or really hated? What? This award's going to go out to the beans. It's going to go out to what? The beans. The beans. Oh my god, that's hilarious because I almost put beans and I was like, "No, that's crazy." Like, I'm not going to put beans. But I love that you did. Crazy because it's Listen, it's not a big deal. It's so petty and it's like not enough to obviously like make me not like the book. But I was just like this is this is too many beans. Any one human being bean like they find these beans. No, that sounds crazy. They get they go to this place that has like a bit of a society starting, right? And they have cans of beans. So they're like you need to eat starving. They're like starving. Yeah, they're starving, you know, and she's not used to eating cuz she's been out on her own for like years, you know, and so she It's scraps. You're eating scraps all the time for years. You're probably like frail and stuff. And like you listen, you haven't had a lot of fiber in a long time. Like, let's not eat multiple cans of beans, so many in a row. And it's definitely partly like my fault and where my brain goes off to. And so my brain is like because the they're sitting around the campfire, right? And um Reena and what's the friend's name? Uh the other guy Jason. Jason and Reena are like I swear she mentions they're on their second can of beans. Yeah. No, there's like multiple. It's like that's I'm like listen Cam, this is too many beans. We're going to be having problems. It's a great protein source, but it's going to make There's a reason why there's a childhood rhyme, right? How does it go? I don't even know. Beans, beans, the magical fruit. The more you eat, the more you chew. Like, so this just took a turn in my brain. So, I'm so sorry. Well, especially because you have this like like it'd be one thing if it was just like, hey, it is what it is. We've been starving for 5 years. Like, we finally come upon this settlement and all they happen to have is like this stockpile of like canned beans. So, like we have to deal with it. But we have this like side um plot of like this building tension between Kai and Ellery and it's like there is just no way you'd be able to maintain that like heat, you know, intimacy like starting everybody's just ripping them. I mean there's definitely worse things going on in this world. That's for sure. But also like they're trying to encourage her like eat the beans. And I bet she's really just like, "Guys, it's okay. Just a couple spoons fulls will do right now. Like let's ease into the beans." She ends up eating more. And I'm just like, and like describing how she's like struggling to get them down. I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, dog. Yeah, beans are already just a little bit tricky for me, but I do it a little tricky." Literally. I mean, it was like a third a can is like good, I think, for a normal person. Yeah. That's like eating dayto day. Yeah. Half maybe if it's like the main but good luck. I don't know. Yeah. Um it could present problems for romantic times. Yeah. And digestion issues for anybody. They say ease into the fiber. Ease into the f. Like but like here but we also have to put it into perspective really. It's like you you did say it best. It's like they're in this dystopia literally they've been living this hellish life for the last 5 years. Maybe like comparatively they're like who cares. I mean probably like honestly every Yeah. Like who by the fire at least we didn't get hit by cannibals today. Yeah. Exactly. Like no for sure. No, but it like it hurts. Like if you have too much like it hurts like it painful gas pains. You get a tummy cramp when you're trying to run away. I know. It could I mean maybe it could have been like a variety of canned food options perhaps. You know those beans. That's hilarious. And what did you put? I put but I just I love that I did think that but then I was like no that's like no. I got to come up with something else. So I love that you put that. Um well I couldn't think of anything else so that's why I went there. Well, I put a micro troop up that I liked. I put powers that scare you because I feel like it's like an extra hurdle cuz I feel like we deal a lot with FMC's who have powers and sometimes MMC's too who have powers and don't realize it and then when they figure it out they have to learn how to wield them, etc. But it's usually like a good and positive thing, right? It's like, okay, I just as soon as I hone this in and figure out how to control it, it's great. It's just kind of a learning curve, but it's like she knows what her power is and is scared to use it because of how I mean literally she touches anything living and it turns to ash. So I love that because it's also very met metaphorical I think too, you know, and intentionally. So yeah. Yeah. I love that. So hey, powers that scare you and beans. Yeah. What are you going to do? That's like our podcast in a nutshell. Yep. That's true. Literally. Okay. So, um, well, first of all, do you feel like this book is getting the hype that it needs to be getting? It hasn't been out for too long. Um, but of course it needs more hype. Yeah. You know, the same with Shackled Serpent. Like, we need to get more stuff going, especially cuz it's so unique this this blending of stories. So, and like um genres. So, I love that. I'd love for you guys to give it a try. You know, if you like it, definitely go and rate and review, post about it, cuz it helps these indie authors out a lot. Yeah, I agree. It just needs more. It needs I think it'll get the popularity when it gets the exposure that it needs. And really, guys, too, we just we can't emphasize this enough. I'm like, where is it? Oh, it's right here in my stack of Withering Heights books. The Shackled Serpent. I have it sitting right here. This is Cam's other book. You guys constantly I feel like are asking what is a good romanty that is not a commitment to like a thousands upon thousands upon thousands page series. Yeah, The Shackled Serpent is in my top three oneoff romanticies I've ever read. So, please pick it up. Like, literally. Um, so yeah, I feel like, you know, those are the things that we need to be saying, too, because sometimes people don't want to commit to a whole entire series. And so there's options, you know. Yeah. And above the ashes, you're sucked in right away. She's does such a great job about world building, which I'll get to in a second, but like she sucks you in right away and it's bingeable and you'll get it accomplished quickly and you'll enjoy it and it's good, especially if you like those different elements we've talked about so far. Totally. Yeah. Very accessible. So, what was your favorite part? The beans. The beans. The beans. Well, I love the beans bringing us together. So, anything that gives us something because I love it, too, because we Anything that gets us gets the people talking. Yeah. Is positive in my book. Okay. So, favorite part for me is the world building. So, again, I love this take on post-apocalyptic and tied with fantasy. Instantly transported. Yeah, that was my favorite thing. I needed it because you know sometimes fantasy takes a minute to ramp up. You're ramped up from the get-go and I love how she has done that once again. For sure. Yeah. What about you? What's your favorite part? Um I loved the twist of her getting possessed by the witch at the end. I mean that was great. So that was my favorite part for sure. Um however, honorable mention to the moment in the woods. Mhm. There's a really great like sexual tension building moment in the woods between Kai and Ellery where he we'll just put it this way. He's off in the woods maybe doing some things with himself and um he doesn't think Ellery can hear him, but she's a fay. Yeah, she thinks everyone's asleep cuz last check they were. You weren't far enough though, buddy. Yeah, for the ears. Like you said, she's fa She can hear really well. Oh, yeah. I know. And she's awake. I forgot about that. Yeah. So, and so she hears it and it's like the it's it was like one of the best tension building scenes I think I've ever read. It was excellent. Um Yeah. So, that definitely gets the honorable mention, but obviously the excellent twist. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Did you have a least favorite part? Least part? I mean, just the just Ellery being tortured like that sucks. Sucks, bro. Sorry about that. Totally. I I although I will say there is something extremely satisfying about trying to torture someone you can't touch and then simultaneously turning to ash. Yeah. And like I kind of did love that. Obviously, you know, it sucked because it was probably like minions of you know the siren who were the ones responsible for like you know handcuffing her up and all that kind of stuff. But you know, hey, they got was coming to them so that was kind of nice. Yeah. Um, for sure. My least favorite part was Kai realizing that his dad was possessed the whole time. Yeah. Like because that was definitely something that, you know, he talks about how abusive his dad was and how horrible of a person he was all growing up and, you know, how he needed to get out of there and obviously how his dad literally ruined the world like and did all this horrible stuff. And then him finding out right before his dad was gone that it actually wasn't him the whole time. Yeah. Like that would be devastating. Yeah. And then now that guilt and responsibility for not seeing the signs and all of that cuz he even had said like his dad like all of a sudden changed so he thought he just showed like who he really was after his mom died. Yeah. No. No. No. Uhoh. Well, it's see the signs. It's like are you possessed by a witch? These are the signs to look out for. There's your pamphlet. Did you eat too many beans? Yeah. So, it was by a witch. We We can't blame him for not seeing the signs. However, um I mean, especially like he has this lady in his like lair that he's keeping hostage. You would assume that he's the one. Oh, he's bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What about favorite character? Character. I loved Reena. you know, she's a voice of positivity in like a not annoying way, like a guiding light that is needed in such a dark place. So, I really loved her. Yeah, I agree. And she's been through some things, too, which is nice because it shows that she's she's nice. Well, it's nice for us as a reader because we can It's like you said, she's this kind of more upbeat, positive perspective, but it's hard to not find that annoying in this context unless they have some life experience. So, I do like Yeah, I appreciate that for sure. So, she doesn't minimize people's plightes and what they're going through either. So, I think that's a big part of it. She's not toxically positive. So, yeah. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, she's like, you know, I really appreciated that she was accepting of or at least she gives people the benefit of the doubt. Why don't we give Ellery like, you know, the benefit of the doubt, see what she's about, like before we just assume that she's bad and like leave her to die or like kill her, you know? So, I did appreciate that. My favorite character was Ellery. I really liked her. I liked her in her monologue. I felt like she, you know, as you said before, was super relatable and I really appreciated that, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Did you have a least favorite character? I mean, gross cannibals will do it. Yeah. Also, the whiny brother villain guy. I forget his name. Um, are you talking about the leader of the like the accomplice to the siren? Is that who you're talking about? Yeah. Not the dad, but like it's the brother, isn't it? His brother. The dad's brother ended up No. Um, the main character's brother. I forget everybody's name. Kai. Kai's brother is the leader of the cannibal guys secretly. Oh, I forgot. It was like revealed. Okay, I must have missed that somewhere. What's his name? Eric, but he's he probably possessed too though, honestly, now that we mention it. Eric. Okay, I kind of forgot about him. Um, I mean, my Yeah, my least favorite. I just put the siren. Gross. Like, come on. You know, there's I mean, get a life. Well, she did, but get somebody get stop taking people's lives. I don't know. There's something about There's just something about like this type of villain. Like she's she's an unre unredeemable villain. Yeah. There's nothing about her that would excuse her behavior at this point. She's too far gone. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So, I definitely hated her for sure. Did you have any quotes that stood out to you? just a few that I wrote down. Yeah. Okay. I need to make my surviving the darkest day worth it. Yeah. So, that was from Kai. Okay. Mhm. Yeah. I put it was exhausting that in her battle her want no need to be good fought a part of who she inherently was. Ah, her little beast took another step forward. Its eyes hardened into slits. I am the way I am because I I'm in a cage. I am what you made me. This is of your own doing. So, it's like that idea that um and this is a metaphorical beast inside or so we think at this point. We don't know. We found out. We've read enough fantasy at this point where like it could be a literal beast in there that's going to pop out at some point. Um but yeah, it's like I am the way I am because you shoved me down. You put me in a cage. You haven't let me free. And now like this is what's going to happen. I was like I love that. That's great. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. It's true. It's good. Those who rule over my fate are simply watching a show and I am the unfortunate fool who knows none of the lines. I feel like that was Kai also. Probably. They talk about the fates a lot. Mhm. Nice. Do you have any other ones you wanted to mention? That's it. Okay. So, we talked a little bit about the slow burn tension. Would you say that for this book the spice was good and balanced or like what did you think about it? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. What about you? Cuz you're the spice girl. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, normally I prefer more spice in my books, but it wouldn't have made sense here. Yeah. Like, for sure, they are just now trusting each other. They're just now like, "Oh, you're not going to kill me. Oh, you're not going to like literally eat me." Okay, great. Um, so I feel like with the multip with the journey, um, having that slowb burn tension, but throughout the whole book, that illusion to the fact that Kai and Ellery both notice that they're being like magnetically drawn towards one another in a very like in a metaphorical sense, yes, but then also in a literal sense, like where they end up in the same town without trying. Um, you know, I feel like that was a perfect amount of like tension building and like just a little sprinkling of spice. Just enough to keep us on the hook for book two. Yeah. So, what about sequels? You going to read sequels? Yes. Right. And you? Yeah. Of course. Of course. Like literally, why would I not? I have to know what's going to happen now. I need to see, you know, it's like I love that, you know, new SNL sketch with Ryan Gosling, the kiss one. It's like so good. Haven't seen Oh my god, you need to watch it. It's like literally so funny. And so it's like that's what I say like think in my head all the time now in his voice like kiss. Like literally I just want them to kiss like and so yeah like I am just looking forward to the natural progression of where the relationship goes. However, now she's possessed by a witch so it's going to be a journey to figure that out. Yeah. Um but it's like I don't know. Oh, I wonder about that too cuz it's like she is half witch. So like is she somehow able to like I don't know have special powers to like rid this other evil lady out of her. I don't know. We'll have to just see what happens. But obviously there's unanswered questions. There's a whole world that we haven't yet explored and so I'm looking forward to book two for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, if you're feeling good about it, I feel like that pretty much wraps up our coverage of Above the Ashes by CM Listister. Yeah. Go pick it up. Go pick up The Shackled Serpent. read it. If you have been waiting for the audio book, know that that is in production right now. So exciting. And then should we just wrap up with a Smasher Pass? Let's do it. Hey, Ashley. Smasher Pass. The new Bronny paper towel guy. New I've never noticed like how giant he is in comparison to regular people until these new commercials. Yeah, sure. He's basically just like a lumberjack AI then know then I'm out. Well, okay. I mean, yeah, for sure. But like I I don't know. But like he's basically just like a lumberjack, I think. Yeah. I mean, so there you go. Literally, I like went to Bronny's website because I needed more information. Um, okay. So, he is he's like literally in the commercials a real guy. They just make him look super big. Then pass. Yeah, he's just like a real Okay, so this is why it's complicated. So he's a pass for me as well. The like regular like Bronny dude. Okay. However, yeah. No, it does. The face is all wrong. Yeah. But the animated version. Yeah, he's pretty good. I would say Smash. But unless he's AI. Yeah. If you So it's complicated. Well, but that's across the board. That's across the board. If it's AI, it's a pass. But if he's a regular animated, then Smash. He's pretty He's a bit It's science, guys. It's science. And he's like seven or eight feet tall. Okay. I love that. like on the homepage too, like they describe him. Okay. The iconic Bronny man embodies strength, resilience, and everyday dependability. With his signature plaid and larger than life stance, he represents the tough spirit behind every three ply role. Yeah. What a weird connection to make. Yeah. Like here's this really tall lumberjack, beardy lumberjack. He's going to be as strong as a paper towel. Hm. It's an odd choice, but it just cracked me up. He popped up on TV the other day and I thought, "Oh, there we go." Okay. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. And you guys can Google him. He has looked very different over the years. Apparently blonde is no longer in. Wonder why. Okay. What about you? You know the popular character Winnie the Pooh? Yeah. Okay. I'm I'm gonna hit you with tiger. Uh t i double guter. If I was also a animated tiger, I would say no. He's really annoying actually now that I think about it. Yeah, it's it's like almost cuz he is something about him. But then it's like no, you're so annoying. So annoying. Like literally bouncing off the walls. Calm down. Yeah. It's like too much. It's like you're It's like over stimulation. It's the voice. That's what it is. He does have a good voice if he's not being annoying about it. Does he? I don't really remember his voice. I don't not dark. It's deep kind of. So yeah, my sister really really liked Winnie the Pooh. I was never a really big Winnie the Pooh lady, but I would watch it with her sometimes. But um yeah, it's just it seems like like I just too much. It's too much. Get out of here. Freaking freaking me out. His whole stick. His whole shtick is that he's too much. He's obnoxious. So totally. So I'm going to say even if I was an animated tiger, that is still a pass for me. Yeah, there's better ones out I don't know that I would even be a Shagiraa Jungle Book. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Smash. That's not unhinged. Well, it is cuz it's cartoon, but Smash, smash, smash. That's Yeah. Come on. You're not picking Tiger over Shakira. Shagira. I thought you said Shakira at first and I was like that took Shagira. Is it Bera? No, I thought I thought you said Shakira. Shir Khan. It's Shir Khan. What? Whatever. I knew who you were talking. Is the cougar. Shir Khan, which is such a cool name. That is a cool name. He's the tiger. So, I was mixing the two and I made Shakira. Yeah. Well, I was like that was a weird like left turn to take. I also don't like Shakira or her music and so that would be a pass for me also. That wasn't you. We used to listen to the first album. Never. Oh, that's so weird. I thought that was you. Guess that was somebody else. No, I can't. It's like even that I'm like, "Please stop it. Please stop it." Yeah. Yeah. It's like, "So, hey, there's my own personal hell. Stick Shakira and Tigger into a room together and then make me hang out with them." Have him fight to the death. Who's going to win? Those hips don't lie, but he can bounce. It's like he's just talking and she's just singing and I'm just like, "Get me out of this place." Yeah. Yeah. How to torture Liz. 3 2 1. Yeah. Well, you heard heard it here. going to die. It's just like the theme of like our lives now. There we go. Yeah. So good. All right. Well, I think against all odds, we have done so much filming today and we have brought you this coverage of Above the Ashes. Make sure to go pick it up, please. And follow KM lister. Go do it. Yes, go do it. We said so. There we go. And make sure to like, follow, and subscribe anywhere like list of favorite podcasts, including YouTube. We're best season in the Books podcast everywhere. also Instagram and Tik Tok and Fable at besties in the book club on Fable. All right, and you guys, we will see you next next Tuesday. Tuesday. Bye.