The Maine Shakeout
Running partners, turned close friends, Lindsey and Andrea share their running experience from two different perspectives. Lindsey, an avid runner in her mid 30s, is a local high school track and cross country coach, and has a passion for nutrition and technical aspects of the sport. Andrea, a mom of three teen athletes, is approaching her 50s, enjoys running and endurance sports even though her body is starting to object a bit more vehemently. Join them as they talk about running, food, local legends and every day athletes of Northern Maine.
The Maine Shakeout
James Fahey- The Journey of Running
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James had an outstanding high school career at Bangor high school and continued that at the University of Maine, where he was a distance runner. After graduating in 2025, James continued to run; and most recently ran a 32:05 at 2026 10K Beach to Beacon, placing as the 10th fastest Maine male in the race. Today we will talk to James about his running journey, what motivates him to continue to run, and his incredible development over the past 10 years. Another great shakeout with an incredible guy.
Welcome back to the main shakeout. Normally we have a more formal written intro highlighting some of our guests' accomplishments. And our guest today, James Fahy, has plenty of those, but we'll get into those later. But I'm gonna tell a story instead for this intro that in my mind just sums up who James is. My family's very competitive, to a fault, for sure. My oldest son, Fritz, was lucky enough to be on the Bangor High School cross-country and track team with James a few years ago. And now, whenever Fritz comes home, he and James generally meet and go for a run. And usually they'll run together until a few miles before the end, when James just drops Fritz like he's not moving. And sometimes James has already put in five to seven miles before they even start running together. Now, here's the interesting part. If that were to happen to any with any other person, Fritz would be fired up and irritated that he had gotten dropped. But with James, the reaction is always the same. It's just admiration. It's wow, James is in incredible shape. He wasn't even working hard and he just left me in the desk. So I guess the point of the story is that James is such a good person that even the most competitive folks can't help but root for his success. James has had an outstanding high school career at Bangor High School, and he continued that at the University of Maine, where he was a distance runner. And after graduating in 2025, James continued to run and most recently ran a scorching 3205 at the 2026 Beach to Beacon, placing as the 10th fastest main male in the race. Did you beat Ruth?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I did. I did actually get Ruth.
SPEAKER_01All right, so that's even a better fantastic.
SPEAKER_04This photo is me racing when I was younger and like like Walter Hunt, for example, and she's like the background of the race, you know.
SPEAKER_01So Yeah. No, no. Shout out to Ruth that we love Ruth. Okay. Um, so today we're gonna talk to James about his running journey, what motivates him to continue to run, and his incredible development over the past 10 years. James, welcome to the main shakeout. And please don't tell Flickr. How you assume in the intro, he never listens to this stuff, anyways, right?
SPEAKER_04Awesome. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02So welcome, welcome. I also got the honor of coaching James in high school. So when we reference some stories, if that seems like I know him a little bit better than I should, that would be why. Um all right, James. So tell us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, um, what your childhood was like, all that jazz.
SPEAKER_04Sure thing. So I grew up in Bangor, Maine. Uh I lived in Portage, Maine, Portage Lake, Maine, like up in University County for the first like three years of my life, but I don't really remember it that much. So Bangor is where I grew up. Uh lived there for the majority of my life, either there or in Orno and Old Town, uh, for when I went to the University of Maine. Uh, I began running when I was a freshman in high school, uh, kind of following the typical pattern that most runners tend to follow, where you're doing it to stay in shape for another sport, and then you end up just doing it all year. So uh I ran outdoor track, my freshman sophomore year high school, and then my junior and senior year, I ran all three seasons um in one way or another with the COVID disruptions and whatnot.
SPEAKER_01Um sorry, what sport were you trying to stay in shape for that you were running?
SPEAKER_04I was playing football and basketball in the other seasons. So once I got to my junior year, I kind of was like obviously I liked running a lot, but also I was like the smallest kid on the field for every time every every snap in football. So that was probably coming to an end. Um basketball was a l a little bit harder for me to leave because I like basketball quite a lot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But again, just kind of small. So, you know, it doesn't I and I was better at running anyway. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I feel like if you were if you grew up in this area or if you've lived in this area for a while, Faye is a definite name in the local traditional sports world. Like I I don't know that I would uh I don't think running when I hear Faye. Like I think baseball, basketball, football, like I just think of those traditional sports. What was it like when you changed over? Because your you your brother and you neither of you really did anything outside of like traditional sports before you switched over to running, right?
SPEAKER_04Right. Yeah. So that was kind of and and the one that I was leaving to do running initially was the big one, baseball.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I could kind of sense some like maybe like disapproval initially, just because like, well man, like baseball is kind of like the sport, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04For for the family. Um it was a little odd at first, but I think and I've I've actually talked to my dad about this. I remember like maybe later on in high school. Um, I came back from like those initial couple practices, like the first week of track, and he could like see how excited I was about it because I thought it was so cool that I was like, I just ran a 5k. That's so cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I seemed really excited about it. So I think he kind of um became a little like more accepting. I wouldn't I wouldn't say accepting because I wouldn't say he was ever like not accepting other.
SPEAKER_02Right, but like open and excited to see his son happy, probably.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and he likes watching and then he liked watching me race a lot, and then I got better and better. So he I yeah, and obviously now he's fully he he loves it, he likes watching the races and keeping up with it and stuff. So yeah, it was definitely a little challenging at first, though.
SPEAKER_02It's fun to watch your kid succeed and then be happy doing it. So I'm sure that but it's gonna be also hard to break that mold. Like I I always think of you, I've I think it's commendable because I think it's hard when you're 14, 15 years old to do something brand new when your families are all invested in something and you're really like the first one to kind of break the trend or the mold. It it's not easy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, definitely, definitely not.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then okay, so you switched over, you did track first or cross-country, James?
SPEAKER_04I did track first. I didn't do cross until my junior year. My junior year was the first year where I didn't play football or basketball.
SPEAKER_02So, what changed going into your junior year that convinces you to leave football and step onto the cross trailer?
SPEAKER_04Uh definitely like the fact that I was I I could see that I was probably better at running than the other two sports. Um, I also just had more fun, I think, with the group of runners. Um obviously I loved play, I uh not obviously, but I definitely liked playing uh basketball and football with a group of guys there. But um I had a lot of fun with the track group and there was a strong group of runners that like, you know, the the big looming thing was like maybe we could win a state title. That was kind of like the thing that everyone was kind of had on their minds.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So um that was definitely a big factor, I think, in that. Um as well as like again, like I could kind of see the writing on the wall with like where my career was going for those two sports. So I I figured that would probably be a good idea to switch.
SPEAKER_01Were you immediately good at running or did it take a little time?
SPEAKER_04I started a lot farther from the bottom than most people, I would say. I'm very fortunate that like I I have a lot of natural ability, I think. A lot of it is like I just really like it. Like I remember in middle school when we do like the pacer test out for like gym class, I'd be sitting in class getting like butterflies, like thinking about You like loved it, were pumped so seriously. Yeah, I took it very, very seriously.
SPEAKER_01But you know, all those other boys on that good crash country chain, they were all sitting there all pumped.
unknownExactly.
SPEAKER_04And then my fresh like my freshman year, um, I had like a I I broke five my freshman year, which like a lot of people don't do. So I had a again far, pretty far from the bottom in in um in terms of like where I am now. Um, and then kind of just stayed the same for a while. Like I remember I traveled the the same exact 457 mile time during COVID. So I didn't get a lot better until like my senior year.
SPEAKER_02You started with outdoor track and you guys were talking about winning a state title. It's that same group of distance boys that does cross. It's a special group. Do you think that they influence you to want to stay around or was it more of the running component?
SPEAKER_04Uh that's a good question. I I think it was probably a good mixture of both because it they kind of feed off of each other. Like the group pushes you to be a better runner, and then the the the two synergize really well. I don't know if I could pick one.
SPEAKER_02It was one of it so I've coached at Bangor for almost 15 years, and it was your group when you were a senior, your group of boys has not been matched just as human beings, not necessarily competitive or talent-wise, but as a team until recently. Like it's been a long time, and it's really rare to have a group of teammates that are so successful and just good people at the get along. You guys all seem like friends. It wasn't like a group of guys that get along during cross and then they just don't talk for four months. It was you guys ran together all year and then pushed each other and genuinely wanted to be good at running. It wasn't like, I want to beat Fritz, I want to beat Dan, I want to beat Simon. It was like, guys, we if we all work really hard, we could win states that were sick.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Never it never felt like there was some like inner team animosity beating each other. Did you feel the same way? Or am I just like oblivious and living in the clouds?
SPEAKER_04No, I definitely feel the same way. Yeah, absolutely. I mean you like to beat the move. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Are you telling me you never wanted to beat Fritz? Like you and Fritz were so close, you definitely wanted to beat him.
SPEAKER_04Well, I think like I was just gonna get there. So I obviously you want to in workouts sometimes, like when maybe you're a newer runner and you're still kind of like trying to prove yourself in workouts a little bit, you want to beat up on your teammates a little bit in workouts. But yeah. We both did that. Um and like when when Fritz would beat me, that would like like there's a pretty common idea within teams sometimes that like if one of the like like if if you're normally you're three and then on the day you're the five, that means that you're four and five had really good days. Yeah, yeah. How I look at it. Fritz and I were pretty interchangeable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We were, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And we would push each other in races, but if he beat me, it wasn't like I was upset with myself. I just knew he had a good race, and that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, so cool. All right, let's talk about COVID. We're gonna and then we'll get into the the juiciness of your running and your success and how you're still running super fast. So uh, this is a near and dear to my heart chunk of time. COVID hits, it changes everything. You mentioned briefly that this group of boys was chasing a state title. It would have been the first boys Bangor cross-country state championship title in the history of our school. Um, very special group. You guys essentially had like one of a kind cross season. Talk about what it was like training through COVID, what those days were like, what did practice look like, what did the meets look like, and then essentially what happened at the end of the season.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So starting like in the spring when everything kind of got shut down, obviously. Um, we like that weekend, like before we couldn't like be around each other, I guess we could still kind of be with each other, but it was just canceled. Um, we went on a run from Cameron Stadium, like me, Simon, Fritz, and Gordon, I think, maybe Ethan Partel was there as well. And um, we talked about things and whatnot. And then what really like led the charge through like the spring and the summer of the training was um Gordon made like a training plan for all of us. So Gordon Dore, who the for those who don't know, he ran at Colby um after his time at Bangor High School. He he went on the like Google Slides and made like this massive training calendar, like all laid out, everyday laid out. Um where he wrote workouts, he wrote like all the mileage, he had like notes in there, we had time trials scheduled for everything. Um that was like the entire spring. And then once we got to the summer, that was where like the Roger training took over.
SPEAKER_02But um I know I just have to interject that this is the first time ever hearing this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I still have I still have the uh the document. Um it's one of the things that I like exported from my school email account to like my personal to save.
SPEAKER_03Amazing.
SPEAKER_04Um so I can still look back on it, which is actually really cool to to just kind of see because I I remember very well. It was like we were all like looking at this document every day pretty much. Um so that was like kind of what led the big charge through the the spring. Um running mostly alone, I we ran together maybe like twice. And I remember it feeling feeling like wow, I forgot you existed. Like this week. So that was that was the spring. The summer, um, much of it again, very much alone. We might have gone to Stud Mill like once. Um Stud Mill is a big like dirt road in Milford, which is just north of Old Town. It's a logging road that goes to Canada. We'd go there in high school and also in college with the UN guys as well. Um so we'd been there in our other maybe during the summer. Um but then the season itself was really odd. Um, I still look at videos of it and it kind of feels like a fever dream. Kind of just like I think everyone kind of has that feeling about it. Um, like the wave starts really odd. Um, the mask on the start line is like crazy to look at and just think about. Um, I think the craziest race of that whole thing, uh, it's hard to say. The Festival of Champions that year had like six teams. I didn't run that race. I I like had like an injury flare-up on the day. I like threw a temper tantrum because I couldn't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you get them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um but people describe that one as being like really, really freaky because that's normally a race that's so packed with fans and like energy and stuff.
SPEAKER_02Remember how um, remember how we when we went to a meet that I remember festival specifically. Remember I had to stay, like I stayed with the boys team. Roger took the so you had to take one team at a time, had to be on two separate buses. We had to bus the boys team to a track, and then we all stayed there. I remember you guys playing some like video game on your phone. I don't remember what I was like, what the hell are you guys doing?
SPEAKER_03And then the girls team went over to race, and then but you couldn't be unsupervised, so you had to make sure you had somebody on each bus.
SPEAKER_02It was the we the transition itself took longer than the race.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. And I remember like the the reason I had trouble saying that festivals was the weirdest race that season is because of the conferences race that year at Coney was so odd, but because of things like that, and also they had separated the North Yeah. So not only were the girls and boys completely separated in the way that you just described, but also the North race in the morning, or sorry, the south race in the morning. We had no idea the results, they did a very good job. No, and then you're loading, you're trying to like look at Twitter to see like why we we had like this one like like 240p like Twitter video of like Grady Satterfield finishing the race, and we're like, okay, he won. Like we don't know anything else, we don't know the time.
SPEAKER_02I remember counting seconds on the bus, watching that video.
SPEAKER_04Yes, to Tyler. Yes, I remember doing that. Absolutely remember doing it.
SPEAKER_02We were like, okay, we know he won, but we don't know the time, so let's just start counting seconds to see the next person. Like, oh my god. It was absurd.
SPEAKER_04I absolutely remember that. Yeah. And hopefully I'm not wrong on that. I think it was Grady that won that race, but yeah, it was it was very funny. I remember doing that too.
SPEAKER_02Very weird days to think that that was our norm.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_04And then uh so that that that race we were just describing, the conference race at Coney, um, we all kind of went into it knowing it could be the last because you know, things were still up in the air. It was like that time of uh the pandemic when everyone was like checking the weekly like color rating. So it's like Friday at whatever, nine o'clock or whatever. We like color rating. So hopefully it's good this week.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, and some schools would they be out for six days? Like I remember like if some schools were like everybody's out of sports for the next six days for no con like because of close contact. So it was like, yeah is it gonna be us? Right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. And so it was gonna be held in Belfast. The state competition um looked like favorable for us and it looked like it was gonna be held in Belfast. Belfast got uh a bad color on the color rating. Yeah. So it held there. So they said, okay, we're gonna hold it at Bangor. Uh a few days go by. Um, and then um I f well what happened first actually is I got contact traced, which this is actually crazy to think about now as well.
SPEAKER_02But insane.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I I was in the library for a study hall, which is a pretty big room. Uh not that it matters, but um kind of I got contact traced to somebody who tested positive for COVID. So I was pulled from uh school and competition and practice. So uh the story that is commonly told about um when the team found out about the state meet being canceled and then continuing to run the workout after having found that out, I was actually doing that workout in my driveway. So I ran down my dirt driveway and then a little bit onto the street because it wasn't quite quite long enough. Um but I remember getting the news the night that I found out I'd been contact trace and I kind of just like I just like sat in bed and just like my parents like could they they could tell I was like super like I just like shut down. I didn't like I wasn't sad, I wasn't like anything, I was just very emotionless.
SPEAKER_02I kinda I I like went to bed at like 7 30 that night and I was just And what is the time frame of that to the state meet day?
SPEAKER_04That was probably like three or four days before, maybe. Um and then so I'm doing stuff at my house, like running from my house, doing workouts from my house. And then two days before the state meet, again, I'm I'm doing that workout in the driveway. Um you guys are doing it at Cameron Stadium, I believe.
SPEAKER_02Proven grounds.
SPEAKER_04Sorry, proven grounds yeah, really telling him important. Uh during the proven grounds, you find out the work the the state meet is canceled. Um you guys do the workout, and I yeah, I found out that day as well. Um and yeah, that was kind of the the end of the story. I remember I actually was looking back at text messages because you can like search text messages.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so I I was looking for something else, but I happened to stumble upon a conversation I had with my um my friend at the time about just like my motivation levels, like in the days after that. It was like right after it had been canceled. And I read like my texts I was sending him, and I was just like, I could tell how I was super, super down. Like on never gonna be able to run motivated again, like I'm gonna take a big break. I did take a big break, big break. I don't think I ran for like two months after that.
SPEAKER_02Like until I think that that was I think that's a very fair reaction, and I think it was very common amongst all of you from a coaching standpoint, watching a group of young men work so hard towards something, and then even to like have faith that it was going to happen up to 48 hours before and every day felt like, is it gonna happen? And you know, we felt like weeks were leading up, like, uh, it might we might not get a stage, we might not get a stage. I'm like, guys, we're gonna have a freaking state meet. This is our backyard. You know, backyard like the place that you guys have all been, we've been here, like you've run this course. This is awesome. It's not even our home course. It was going to be at a course that we don't even really run often, but kids run at middle school. So it was a pretty familiar course. Whole circle, you know, two days before you're like, it's gonna happen. Like, we're right there. And then um to watch that, not to be, I don't want to say get taken away from you, just because it's not anybody's fault, but having that be something that you guys have looked forward to and worked for for six plus months, and then have you in just 48 hours short of when you're supposed to shine and be in your most peak fitness, which you all so were. Um, it sucked. Roger, he had you guys for a long time. I was pretty new to coaching most of you. So it was a not like, I mean, I was still pretty attached to all of you, but he was like, You guys were like his children and watching, watching that entire situation unfold. It w it's truly one of the most gut-wrenching experiences. Do you not feel like there's always gonna be like a little bit of a dad call?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's it's I'm so jaded to it now. It's just like you know what I mean. Also, just like with the like going back to how Roger must have felt about it because that we were like his first group. You were seeing him, seeing it all the way through to our senior year.
SPEAKER_02I was thinking about the COVID like season. And then was it not you that like stood in the bushes and watched the class beat me? Or like, was that not you?
SPEAKER_03Not me.
SPEAKER_02I really would have sworn it was you. We put James in the bushes. I'm not gonna lie, it could have been Roger. I think it's somebody from the gym. I think somebody went and watched because class B ran the meet in masks the like day before. Oh, I did do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I knew you did that. I knew it was you.
SPEAKER_04But but it was it was not um, it was not class B. It was the PVC JV.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but it yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04And we we went to watch, and I remember um we watched from the it was at Saxville, we watched from Mount Hope Avenue. Yes, and I remember watching people finish, and I remember um I watched Ava Dowling finish, who was a runner from Hamden. Yes, and she had had a similar problem to me when she got contact trace and couldn't run PVCs, so she got AV meet, even though she was one of the better runners on the team. Yeah, yes, I remember watching her finish and kind of just like I we were really far away, so we couldn't really tell, but I've talked to her since about like watching her do this race. Yeah, she like went down and was like really like upset and like because obviously it's a really emotional last race.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, knowing it's your last race. Yeah, like brutal, brutal. Yeah, uh yeah, moving off from Kovic. Last time you may yeah, you graduate from Bangor. Were you intending on running at UMade like when you first started?
SPEAKER_04Like the final week or two of my senior year. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So it wasn't it was not something that you had been like thinking, it was very fresh.
SPEAKER_04You go uh a friend at the time's dad told me I should try it out. Uh, and so I was like, or at least give it some consideration. So I I I considered it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Who was the coach at the time when you started at Maine?
SPEAKER_04It was Mr. Mark Leck.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay, so let's talk about that. For those who have maybe not run in college, what does that process look like? You weren't necessarily recruited, so you're trying to walk onto this team. It's a division one sport. What does that look like as a freshman in college?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh, it's a hell of a lot different now at Maine. Uh, but what I will say is uh walking on is kind of a messy process and you have to be persistent and advocate for yourself. Um, I was a counselor recently at Acadia Running Camp and I gave a whole like talk about this, like a breakout talk about like how to kind of um get on or like get into the college like team process, I guess. If you're recruited, it makes things a lot smoother, but walking on again, you gotta be persistent and be um advocate for yourself a lot. What it looked like for me was Roger emailed Mark uh in June and said, Hey, I have this kid who's interested in in running. Um, connected me and Mark. Mark gave me some little workouts I could do over the summer. I would largely um kind of just did what I thought was good other than that. Uh I show up in the fall, I tried for the team and made the team. The team at that point was rather small, so it wasn't um as competitive as it would be now. The team is much, much bigger and much more competitive than when I had walked on. So I think even a year or two later, I would not have been able to do what I did. So I'm I'm very fortunate.
SPEAKER_01But if you try out, I'm sorry. Ted, can I ask a question? So when you walked on and you made the team, does did you you didn't kick out people who were recruited, right? They just made another spot for you, or correct me if I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_04So I kicked out people who were also trying to walk on. But I wouldn't call kicked out also because they kind of kicked the whole time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's a hard still train with the team and hang around and try to make the team next time.
SPEAKER_02What did that trial look like?
SPEAKER_04Uh it was a f I can't remember if it was 5k or 3 mile. I think it was a 5K uh cross country time trial at um on around the main campus on like our old course that doesn't exist anymore because there's a track in the middle of it now.
SPEAKER_02Just one. That was it? One 5K.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_02Taking the fastest guys.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It was pretty cutthroat.
SPEAKER_01So how did you um where did you end up placing or falling in that 5K D member?
SPEAKER_04Man. I remember who I was, who's around me, but I was probably seventh, maybe.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. Seventh man.
SPEAKER_04Great. Yeah, somewhere around there.
SPEAKER_02It's awesome. Uh okay, so you make the team. What does that look like now? You have just gotten done running at the high school level. What are the big jumps and changes that you start to notice as a college athlete?
SPEAKER_04The biggest jump, like right off the rip, was how fast the first mile of a cross-country race is in college. I remember just like hearing the splits being called out at the first mile. I guess my very first race, it wasn't really there was like one, it was also an army. It's an army duel meet every year.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So it wasn't as, you know, competitive because I kind of just hung with my teammates and did our own thing. But we went to a meet with more teams the next week where I could kind of get more in the mix so there's more teams to kind of pace off of. And I went out in like 458 or something. And that's what I was doing for the two mile in the spring. And now this is like an 8K in cross.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_04It's a it was a that was a big, big shift because you kind of you know, you get beat up by that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's a big shift. I also struggled a lot that fall with um like sicknesses, which is pretty common when you get training harder. Um, your immune system kind of has to make some sacrifices and give energy to other parts of your body because you're trying to recover all the time. So I got sick a few times that fall, um, a couple that were like pretty gnarly. Um and that was another big adjustment. Um the mileage honestly wasn't too different. I I was really ad averse um to the idea of running seven days a week at the beginning because I had done six days a week. So I actually remember the first week of training there um with the guys in Orno uh when they said, okay, like we're gonna do our long run Sunday and something else on Saturday. We we did three breakouts a week at the time. So we'd work out Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, um, and then long run Sunday. That was like like I think I actually went to Stub Mill and I like drove behind the team and played music because I was so like I and like they actually told me that later on that they like kind of respected my like ability to stand up for myself like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But like I like I I don't think I'd end up doing that another time, but I was just so scared that first week. I had a lot of doubts in general just because I didn't know even though if I went to college at all. Um so that was a big j adjustment as well, was running seven days a week.
SPEAKER_01So let me ask you, um, back up for a second, for those of us who don't know college running so well. So that 8K where you went out in 458, what did the rest of the miles look like? Were you in like the mid fives or did it stay that fast?
SPEAKER_04No, it certainly did not stay that fast. Uh it kind of like it followed the typical pattern of like any race. Like, you know, they they say like the world record races from like 800 all the way up to the marathon kind of follow that U shape.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Fast first mile, slower in the middle, faster at the end. Um my mind might look more like a J. So fast at the beginning and then like didn't really do too much work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, awesome. Yeah. Uh you started just for reference, James. What was like like 16 high 15s for like a 5k range, would you say? Like I'm trying to show like your growth over time. So when you entered college, because you only ran 5Ks up to that point. So I know you shift to an 8K, but just for like reference, what were you roughly running 5Ks at when you got to college?
SPEAKER_04My high school PR, and I only ran this once. I ran 1648, I think.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and then where do you eventually end up in a 5K throughout the end of college?
SPEAKER_04At the end of college, I ran 1452.
SPEAKER_02Whoa. That's ins that's insane. Okay, so how can that happen? Right. Doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You don't have to, we're gonna cut that out. You don't need to say um okay, so let's talk about what why you think you developed so much as a runner. You're still running very fast. Arguably you are your fastest self right now. I I feel like you're your healthiest, fastest self right now. Um, what got you there? Because I know it's gotta be some failure, some success, figuring it out what works for you. Everybody is literally different. So, what did you learn over the four years in college that created the person you are today?
SPEAKER_04A lot of it kind of feels just like banging your head against the wall. Like, especially like with the 5K, like it really just it beats you down time after time after time after time. Um, but just being persistent with it. Um with that event specifically is kind of where I think um some of my success lies. Um, but the biggest thing is obviously just like training age. The more you like run competitively for longer, you're just gonna get better eventually. Um, doing things like sleeping, eating, trying to stay happy. No, in the not in the sense of like be happy, but like trying to regulate yourself emotionally and like make sure that like you're you're you know content with everything and you're not too stressed out all the time. Um I found that like my senior year, I found a I saw I saw a big shift in like my um mindset with regards to that because um my junior year, my entire junior year I worked with our sports psych person, um, which I essentially just function as like a therapy appointment every week or bi-weekly, I guess. Um and I kind of figured out that was being like way too like harsh on myself, hard on myself, stressing myself out a lot. Senior year, I made it a point to like not take things too seriously, not in the sense of like, oh I'm not gonna take it too seriously, but like not take it overly serious to the point of like detriment. Um so that that was a big, big shift. And that's honestly my my senior year, like my freshman sophomore and junior year, I didn't really improve a whole lot. Like I was pretty, you know, within like the um same range as a runner. And then my senior year I had a a big breakthrough. I attribute it largely to that. Um then also again, like I said, just like training age and being around the uh competitive like running uh for longer, you get better at it.
SPEAKER_02So for you, it wasn't necessarily I feel like we could ask that question to a lot of people, and the answer would be like this specific workout or this specific diet or this specific recovery plan. For you, you didn't it was none of that. It really was like bettering your mindset. And because you it better your mindset, you do you feel like you just found balance and then you were able to kind of like different lens train differently?
SPEAKER_04I think it just like I don't know if it necessarily affected my training very much. I mean, it did affect it in that I was just probably less stressed in general and was able to recover better and not be so hard on myself with like bad workouts and get in my head as much in like competitive races. Um you could like I could have a race where I was, okay, I'm feeling good, I'm gonna put my foot on the gas pedal and second thoughts about it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And like trusting my gut a little more. Um But I don't I don't I don't know if it yeah, that's kind of what I would say. I don't I don't think it was like a like it made me have any crazy workouts or anything like that where I like locked in super hard mentally. It just kind of relieved some some pressure, I think maybe, and probably put made me in a better um gave my body some more capacity to to train harder, probably.
SPEAKER_01So and how did you sounds like you had some big injuries in the beginning or you got really sick. So how did you start to become the healthiest version that you are now?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh it's funny. I I have talked about this like since I graduated. I've gotten sick like once. I missed like one day at work last year. Part of it is I'm probably a little less stressed because I'm not juggling you know the practice schedule with the school schedule. But also uh I've just been working out less, like since I've graduated, like I've been doing like one or l one or less than one workout a week since May of 2025, which I would like to get back to doing one to two so I can do a little faster. But uh this the training intensity has been a little lower. I'm still running high mileage, but just not working out as much.
SPEAKER_02So when you say not working out as much, you're still running frequently, just not not at a high intensity. Is that what you mean?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So I'll still, I mean, I uh yes, yeah, still running a lot, but just not doing like a like a definitely isn't that interesting, James, that you did so well at Beach to Beacon and you haven't been doing workouts. I don't know how that I don't know what happened there, to be honest.
SPEAKER_02You're not stressed. Yeah, you're happy. I really think that that is incredibly important. We argue that like rest days are just as important as your workout days, and like you can't get people to believe that until they experience it. And it's similar. If you start to find some joy and you're not as wound tight and you're not like, I need to get this workout done right now. I have six papers to write, all these things on my to-do list. It's not a task anymore. It's pleasure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. And I also just specifically for specifically for Beach of Beacon, uh, something that was really big that race for me, like why I might have run a little better there. It was just like, I think it was the best I've ever like actually executed a 10k. That was my first med tent afterwards.
SPEAKER_01So I like Oh, you were in the med 10 afterwards?
SPEAKER_04Look at a good med 10. There's bad med 10s, but there's good med tents. There's like a good med tent. Like uh I really spent myself. Like I was I was pretty beat after that.
SPEAKER_02And I also like I need to put an orange in his mouth med tent or IV. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It was like armpit ice bags and like plus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. So all right, so talk to us about how you ran that race.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Uh so a really important part of that race for me was um obviously every year, everyone you know is running that race. So it's always you know, there's people you secretly want to beat, uh people that you look up to or people that you like running with. That's makes it fun every single time and makes it less stressful to start line. It's like a big running community thing and the finish line is fun as well. But for this race in particular, um, I was coming off uh I ri I ran the Sunrise Trail relay desk the week before.
SPEAKER_01Um you guys did really well, right? Yes. You won't. Yeah, we got third.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we got third. It was great.
SPEAKER_01Third. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Yep. So it was me and then a bunch of um, how do I say a bunch of uh a a large group of like um like really like older runners that I look up to a lot that I've run with like on the Cabot team in Nova Scotia, um, and then some like younger guys as well. But one in particular um that I look up to a lot and that helped me a lot in that Beach of Beacon race uh is Dan Vasolo. He uh is from PBD Mass. He um ran at Colby in college. He's 41 now, so he's 18 years older than I am. He's told me many times about the story where he he remembers a specific race that he won his senior year of high school the day I was born and is still very competitive. He's probably one of the most competitive people I know. Um he's a three-time OTQ guy, so he's gone to the trials three times in the marathon, which you know that's a big span of time. So it's really impressive. 10 to Boston in 2018. I'm kind of just doing the whole resume for this guy now, but regardless, he made his Beach Beacon debut. He had gone all that time without ever having run it. So he ran it um that weekend and he told me before the race, like, hey, today's your day. Like, go beat me. There's gonna there's gonna be a day when you beat me and today's that day. Go do it.
SPEAKER_01I have goosebumps. Oh my wait, did you eat him?
SPEAKER_04So I was I I let him go a little bit in the beginning. And this guy's a this guy is like a he's a hardcore baller. Like I I never think I never ever think that I can beat him, as much as you'd hate to hear me say that. So uh he goes out through 5K, probably like 10, 15 seconds ahead of me, and I start kind of just slowly kind of gaining on him. I get to about 10, 15 meters behind him. Um, and I it stays that way until like the beginning of the last mile, and I catch him at the beginning of the last mile. It's me, him, and one of my best friends, Sam Mills, are all three of us together at the beginning of that last mile. Dan and I take off, and Sam shouts from behind us like, James, throw yourself down the hill. I didn't mean to do that. So Dan throws himself down the hill, takes on me. There's five lead changes between us two in the last mile. Well, we're we are battling. Yeah. Um, and we beat the hell out of each other. I make a really hard move with probably a K to go, maybe like 800 to go at the at the top of the little hill in Fort Williams. Um I I I go really, really early because I know that I need to if I want to beat him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I like completely went to the well and I get to the finish line. He gets me at the line.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. What a way to not beat him. You know what I like?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't you wouldn't want anything different. That's freaking awesome.
SPEAKER_04The photo, the photo is great. The they were calling my name over the announcers, so I like put my hands up because I was like, I was like, hey, that's me, that's my name. So it looks like I'm like celebrating like is it on the photo. Uh I'm gonna print it out and put it on my mirror.
SPEAKER_02You definitely should. That's gonna be like a reminder.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. But um, look like or not as they see you were I'm glad we can you know play hard together and it really meet each other up.
SPEAKER_01So, and like you said, he was probably one of the reason why you did so well because he was pulling you along and pushing you along. And yeah, he made you go to the well, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I went to the well to try to beat him and I couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_02But that's a little bit it's super fun to be able to be competitive and then at the end shake hands and be like, You got me today. Like running is just it's one of the few sports that are like that. Yeah, absolutely. You're done and you're like shit, you know.
SPEAKER_04And also a sport that like transcends like age and hobbies and jobs and things like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Why wouldn't we ever interact with like a 41-year-old um corporate otherwise like other running? So it's it's really cool that we're able to have that relationship, especially like just there's there's a whole group of a whole cohort of older guys like that that are really important for the younger group in Maine right now.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I think we're in a really cool spot in Maine running, distance running for I mean, there's a lot of different reasons, but that in particular, we have like elite level runners at every stage of life right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. It's so special.
SPEAKER_02When you said you went to the well, James, it reminded me of like your mental approach when things are hard during a race. Marathon, you don't really hit that. I shouldn't say that. I'm gonna say it anyway. The marathon, you don't really like hit the spot as much as like a 10K or a 5k. It's a different well, like it's a different pain cave per se. What are your tools when you get to that spot? We're like, shit. I don't know how I'm going to go any harder than this. Do you feel like there's something that motivates you? Some people like say something over and over, some people are like, just doing it. What's your what's your power tool in those moments?
SPEAKER_04Uh I don't know. I I I made, you know, you ever like watch someone kick in a race and they like make they're making like pain noises like out loud. Like I had never ever done that until that race. Like I like, I was like, like as I was like going down the finishing, like, you know, 400 meters or whatever. No, no, no, that isn't what helps me, but I just thought it was funny.
SPEAKER_02I think that happened, like it never has happened before.
SPEAKER_04I've never made noises while kicking before. Like that that never was a thing. Like I've maybe I just kicked really hard. I don't know. But uh I I think for that it was mostly competitiveness. I really, really wanted to beat um Dan. And but like in any race, it's it's it's mostly just like I don't know, it's it's more intrinsic. I don't I don't think it's like any one thing that I'm telling myself. I'm just kind of like kicking and hoping that I can hurt as much as I can. Because what else are you gonna do like that late in the race?
SPEAKER_02Well, some people won't do it though. That's yeah, no, you can it's hard to hit it every time.
SPEAKER_04That's why it's called a well. You know, it dries up sometimes and you don't get it.
SPEAKER_01That's so true. Oh, I like that. That's so true. Um so wait, I want to ask a couple questions. One is who are so you've moved, you're further south in Maine. Um, who are some of the so you're no longer with a team, right? I mean, you had your humane guys and now you're so who are you gonna surround yourself with to keep going? Yeah. Help you get to that well. Dan loves TV.
SPEAKER_04The big, like the the the group that's really shaking up things down here right now is the Bauer group. Um, so that's who I'll be training with primarily. Mostly humane guys, but also just like a big mix of people that have come from all over or didn't run at humane, but now we're training here um in Portland. There's there's a massive group. I'd probably miss people if I tried to name them all. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Tuesday night. Tuesday night. Yeah, we're invited. Tuesday night. Yeah, we're coming. We're definitely coming.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So that's that's who I'll be training with. Um and I I live with um one of my teammates now, and uh I see my other my other teammates almost every day.
SPEAKER_01So you've put yourself in a really good spot geographically, right? With uh so do you have big goals on the horizon?
SPEAKER_04Uh I'd like to do well at the main half marathon this fall. I ran it last fall, but I didn't do as well as I wanted to, so I want to try to do a little better this fall, maybe try to break 70. Um, so that's like my big goal. Um I don't have any sites set on marathons yet, but uh I imagine I will at some point. Um and also uh every year. Um do you guys know about the the the cabot trail relay race? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that's like the Olympics. Like every year we're just like going really hard for that. So that's on my radar at all times in the back one.
SPEAKER_02What did you run that with? That's what it was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So normally it's a team of it's it's they're 17 legs, um and each leg is about 10 miles long. Normally we don't have people double because it's it they're really hilly and it beats you up pretty hard, and you don't really recover that well when you're driving on the car overnight or in the car overnight. But this year we had three doublers, so the team was um Matt Homich, who's the captain, he um is an older uh runner and he yeah, he's like he's like our we call him like our GM basically. That's that's that's Homage.
SPEAKER_01Wait, hold on, James. And when you say an older runner, yeah, poor choice? Be careful. How old is he?
SPEAKER_04Homage is probably you don't know. He's 42. I think Homich is 50.
SPEAKER_01He knew 42 the entire time, and he was like, shit, I shouldn't have been older than older.
SPEAKER_02He's like, I haven't troubled.
SPEAKER_01He's your GM.
SPEAKER_04Yep. Uh so then we have W Will Gohegan, uh ran leg two, so very, very prestigious and well-accomplished uh main runner. Yeah, not doesn't need a name a name that needs no introduction. Uh leg three was Aaron Willingham, former U main runner. He also ran leg 17 for us, so the final leg. Leg four was Alec Troxel, um, which again needs no introduction. He ran leg four and leg 16 or sorry, 15 for us. Um, so a really hard double. Um, and he also is a humane guy, and um, I should also mention this for Aaron as well, both Olympic trials qualifiers this past spring uh at the trading marathon in New York. Leg five was Joe Reynolds, he's now my landlord. Uh he's 41, he's one of the better masters runners in New England. Uh awesome guy, super fun. Uh leg six was why am I blanking? Oh, Sam, Sam Mills ran leg six. Uh leg seven was Eric McCarthy, who is 44, I think. So he was our oldest runner, and he completed the trail this year, which means he ran every single leg over the course of his life, which is so that's so cool. If you've spent any time in the Bangor running era, you've seen his name and he wins all the local races. Yeah, he's an absolute legend. He's kind of trying to model myself after in terms of just like I want to be, I want to have as much longevity as I can in the sport.
SPEAKER_01Shame, if you ever talked to me. No, we tried to reach out to him several times. Yeah, yes. So he he like wouldn't respond.
SPEAKER_04So I'll I'll talk to McCarthy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, shout out. Keep going.
SPEAKER_04So he was like seven. Leg eight was I feel terrible. I can't remember this. Well man. Oh, eight was eight was Vasala. Dan Vasala, the one that was talking about, Beach of Beacon. He doubled back on 60 or f uh 16 and kind of was a hero. Like he like balled out really hard on 16 and kind of like saved the race for us. Oh leg nine was Charlie Collins, absolutely killed it. Leg 10 was James Boding, former runner from Bowden, he's probably in his early 30s. Um leg 11 was Ned Farrington, who's my roommate now, ran at Bates in Maine for one year. Uh leg 12 was Miles Quirion, my roommate last year, also ran at Maine from Augusta. I ran leg 13 and then leg 14 was Colin Cernick or Colin Corndog, as known locally.
SPEAKER_01Colin Corndog. I hear each of you had 10 miles and those guys doubled. So, like what were you averaging?
SPEAKER_04For the pace?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It varies from leg to leg because some of the legs are like literally like up a mountain and some of them down a mountain.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um like my roommate's leg was completely down a mountain. He ran, I think, like an 809, two mile in the middle of his leg.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. That's disgusting.
SPEAKER_04Um, and then others were running like 830 miles because it's so uphill.
SPEAKER_03Right, right, yeah, yeah. No, I know yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like the average probably comes out to somewhere around like 530, maybe. 5'20. 5'20, 5'30. It's a it's we our total time was just over 15 hours, 15 hours and nine minutes for like just under 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_02And how did your team place again there? Third.
SPEAKER_04We won we won for the first time.
SPEAKER_02Oh, they won that one, right? Oh yeah, you get third down east, but you won that third desk.
SPEAKER_04We won Cabot the first time in a few years. Uh we beat a very competitive team of we we race against a big Canadian team every year.
SPEAKER_02So we yeah. It's funny listening to you talk about this because when I first started coaching with Adam Good, yeah, I also need a recap from at you guys like our Adam's team when he was like running really fast with all of his guys. So it's kind of fun to listen to like the main team doing that.
SPEAKER_04Like a lot of these guys know good, obviously. And they of course they do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We come to the we get we get OBC. Um, like we we eat there before we head up to Canada year. So we have tags long, we get to see them, which is nice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's cool. Uh I have one last question before we wrap things up. Sure. That we did not touch on. I think it's super important. So you came through Bangor as a runner, you ran locally in college, then we had the pleasure of seeing you coach for the first time this year.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So what were your thoughts um being on the other side of things?
SPEAKER_04It was a really nice uh like in in college, sometimes it gets a little tense, like whether it's like kind of people training really, really hard and taking it really, really seriously or like personalities or whatever it may be, it gets really tense sometimes. So it was a really nice like step back to like running for what it actually is and just kids having fun. Um I I really, really enjoyed it. And I like no matter what the speed is, like I don't care if they're running like an eight-minute mile or a five-minute mile, it was still so much fun to see progress, especially when kids are like setting goals for themselves and like trying to achieve the goals and like actually trying their best. That was super, super cool. And I honestly like I was impassioned more by kids setting a goal, failing to meet it, and then getting pissed off. Yes. That was like that was really cool to see and made me like kind of look inward a little bit about like my own motivation and like um I don't know that that was that was really, really neat. And also just watching kids that have like never had a poor race before or never really had to deal with that experience, watching the emotions get processed, like in real time and trying to help them with that. Um you just forget like how deep into it you are sometimes when you like like kids are like how long's the track? Like how how the track like right to just like go back to like what I because I was like that. Everyone was like that at one point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So it's a good reminder. It is it's a good reminder. It brings things back. It was super special to be able to watch you go from being an athlete at Bangor to coaching at Bangor.
SPEAKER_04Yeah and what better way to do it it's super full circle to be able to do it with Roger. That's like I'm gonna never ever forget that. That was probably the best thing that could have happened. Super super valuable like it gives all the context in the world to um my high school running and it was that that was very very special.
SPEAKER_01Do you think you'll try to coach again?
SPEAKER_04I'd like to yeah it was really fun. I had a great time and also like this again I I was a counselor at um Acadia Running Camp a few weeks ago be like being able to just continue kind of doing the same like it's inspiring. It's inspired yeah it's inspiring it's fun. The kids are like they're there's the kids they there's a like stereotype that they're kind of just like a like friendlier bunch holds true every time like the I work with they're good kids.
SPEAKER_02Yeah doesn't get old. All right James do you run with music or no?
SPEAKER_04I do not run with music.
SPEAKER_02God I'd love to hear it.
SPEAKER_04That makes sense every time Lindsay's like I was run with music okay there it's like the one time of day that you can like not be around technology for like connected. Yeah exactly yeah which sometimes people don't like that because you want to be able to get can like contacted about like emergencies or things like that which I I I get it.
SPEAKER_02But I'd like to be able to go out for 70, 80 minutes and if it's an emergency it'll be there when you get back.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's my thought. And if I don't whatever anyway okay but we need a song from you or like a podcast rec. So are you a podcast guy or do you love music? Give us music. Okay. Some songs you enjoy right now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah can I do a few?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So uh I did I've done kind of like a one that I've been listening to for a while. So one that I've even like before you were coaching me uh I listened to Never Catch Me by Flying Lotus. That's a really good like pre-race song just because I I like the way it sounds there's nothing really like hype about it or anything.
SPEAKER_02Uh hype is sometimes overrated.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Just like this next song The Sweet Escape by Gwen Stefani. That's a great song.
SPEAKER_02It's so good. That's such a good song.
SPEAKER_04That comes on in the field house when we're working out or just like in the car. I love that song and it's really fun.
SPEAKER_02Stupid one that comes you probably forget about it and then if that were to come on I would sing it in the car. Yeah absolutely oh my God I love the song.
SPEAKER_04Yeah great karaoke song as well. Ooh all right and then the last one is uh a song that was really important to the humane team and was a part of our like pre-race chant um and has since been adopted by the Hearts of Pine soccer team. They sing it at their home game sometimes which is not because of us or anything but just 100% because of you but yeah because of us we were singing in October of 2022 so definitely because of us. The ballad of the 20th Main by the ghosts of Paul Revere which is a main band have since broken up but super cool song and I still uh it's it's about um Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th Main in the Civil War um and kind of sounds lame listening like hearing that description I guess but I still get goosebumps when I listen to it.
SPEAKER_02So have confidence in your choice Jason I have confidence it's a great song I get I get goosebumps so that's my that's my I love that those are great reps also I love that you were prepared which means you guys listen yeah you heard an episode normally the response to that question is oh let me look at my Spotify I was not listening like guys something that comes to your mind like I don't want to know what you want us to say I want to know what you want. Right on it that was okay perfect for my favorite part we freaking love this part of every episode. Firefax flipping oh nice okay whatever comes to your mind first James you ready?
SPEAKER_04Yeah sure uh what's your favorite running shoe the uh new balance 1080 although I recently switched to the 880 because the new one's kind of too marshmallowy they're real squishy they're too squishy yep I'm an 880 guy now yeah they it's like they suck your foot in but give you no response back yeah I agree it feels like running quicksand but I love the 1080 to death the old ones yeah all right you go on eBay and buy like 20 minutes. Yeah Joe's New Balance yeah of course all right what's your favorite post long run meal I really like uh like when we go to Acadia sometimes we'll go out to like Jordan's and get like a breakfast meal like after long run which is really nice so like pancakes and bacon and like juice and stuff or chocolate I I probably say chocolate milk. Yeah I really like breakfast after long run. That is good. Perfect okay um well so we're gonna ask you what are your most memorable racing moments but you of course shared one from this past speech to be one of those that stands out yeah definitely uh so obviously that one but as another one is the first time that I broke 15 uh in the 5K that like probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do like like in terms of like a long term goal so it it was a lot of emotion going into that moment. It was on the second day of my conference meet um my senior year. So it was my it was my very last college race ever. So I had one chance not to do it. I was really tired. I ran the 10K the day before um in PR in that so I was like I was pretty tired. I I kind of already accepted that I was gonna have to like run a race unattached in a couple weeks if I wanted to actually break 15. Like I was like it's not happening today. And I just felt good enough to go for it and uh I ended up breaking it and I had a I kind of like yelled the finish line a little bit because I was like really excited about it. My teammates were all really excited for me so that was a really memorable it's such a genuine feeling.
SPEAKER_01You know something you was very like primal like just like ah like I was very excited you know yeah awesome well at least you weren't like moaning when you like kicked the last yeah then the primal screams a little better I imagine to help you all right all right now that you've really come full circle like run coach back whatever um one piece of advice that you could give your younger self.
SPEAKER_04It would go back to what I was talking about earlier with the not taking it too seriously piece. Um again not meaning like don't take it seriously because you should take it seriously if you want to do well but um don't don't uh take it overly serious because it'll it'll be detrimental. Even if you have like a super like hot burning flame of motivation um it it could like if you really lean into it too much it could it could be uh detrimental.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I know that these are supposed to be quick but I I want younger people to hear this and understand I know what you mean and I want everyone else to understand exactly what you mean.
SPEAKER_04Yeah I think a big thing that it comes back to is something that I remember my sports like person saying which is like avoiding and this is really tacky but like if you actually like break it down it it makes more sense avoiding should statements. Like I train with guys I I was training with guys that were like all running the same workout pace as me the same I was working out just fine with them and they beat me in races. I should be beating these guys or I should be able to do this. I should be able to uh hold this pace for you know whatever the distance is I should uh like have done my homework earlier so I'm not stressed now I I should be more on top of this that kind of just like was really destructive I guess because um it makes you feel like like there's you're always just like not meeting whatever expectation you're setting for yourself which most of the time is arbitrary anyway. So you're just like you're kind of just setting yourself up for disappointment at that point. So they and again kind of tacky but the way they tell you to do it is um replace it with like can statements. Um which you know you don't have to do it actually like that because it's kind of like a little again a little tacky. But actually just like replacing the sentiment with that kind of sentiment and looking more positively at it. Like I am trained with these guys, I can do what they do. And in those moments in the race when you feel bad, that's kind of what makes the difference in like the decision that you make. So if you think I should be feeling better right now, I should be able to go with those guys maybe you're gonna like doubt yourself or like think why aren't I feeling better and kind of you know make the bad decision. Or if you think I can do it you're gonna you know overcome that little difficult point and continue to push in the race and hopefully have a better performance.
SPEAKER_02I don't think it's technically no and I think it's a reminder in all phases even now as older runners James we still can find ourselves going I should yes we do it all the time we do we still do it actually I should be able to run with Andrew all right last question you'd probably now if you were gonna run a 5k with anyone dead or alive who would it be well I actually wasn't prepared for this one. Ooh he skipped this section last episode fast forward I'd run a moment with Roger.
SPEAKER_04He's going to cry when he hears this I need to I need to uh write him a letter I meant to do it at the end of the year to say like just to tell him how special how special like the the year was and I just didn't get around the move and with like everything wrapping up. So I I had him on my list for a little for a little while the most special person I think on planet earth I gave him a nice photo of us for Christmas of us like hugging after like a the state meet my junior year and he will gare I will bet my life it is on his shelf in his living room.
SPEAKER_02He told me yeah he told me to hug it up I'm sure it's the most perfect ending to this episode.
SPEAKER_04Well James it has been an absolute pleasure to have a chat with you about running yeah thanks so much I'm day one fan I've been really looking forward to getting on it some OG fan's like is this is this is this legit like is this happening?
SPEAKER_01Yeah wait hold on is that half marathon he talked about the one we were gonna do on October 4th ish.
SPEAKER_04October 4th Portland Maine Yeah we might be there you should