Stories Your Family Has Been Meaning to Tell: An Interview With Neil Taylor

If you're in the position where you still have a parent, or both parents, alive and well - this episode poses the question - how well do you really know them? Not just as mum or dad - but as people, with their own stories, struggles and choices.

After losing his father, our guest on today's episode - Neil Taylor, realised something most of us avoid. He'd run out of time to ask his dad the things that truly mattered. Since then, he's dedicated his life to capturing parent's stories that would potentially be lost forever through his work - Me & My Old Man

This is a beautiful (and sometimes difficult) conversation about family, legacy and healing - and why making time is truly transformative.

We also want to acknowledge that some of you listening may have already lost a parent, so understandably this episode might feel a little raw and potentially reflective. So please listen with care and self compassion.

For more information:

https://www.meandmyoldman.co.uk/

IG: neilptaylor_

Transcript

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The Midlife Mentors: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Midlife Mentors with me, James. And me, Claire. It's our first one back in our London flat. We are back in London. Yes, we are! It's been an epic drive. Yes, well, we recorded one a bit late, didn't we? So that went out, so we'd already arrived home, but we're back in London now, got back, and it's just been really nice. But it has felt like we've not been away at all. I thought 5 months might feel like quite a long time away, but it hasn't.

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The Midlife Mentors: at all. It's a very strange thing with memory and time, and actually, this is something I want to do an episode on, Claire. I've talked to you about this. Have you? Yeah, there's more research suggesting that we're less good, less capable of retaining our memories now, because of the devices and tech in our lives.

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The Midlife Mentors: But anyway, I digress. No, I haven't. It's like, we were having this conversation, like, if you told me that we hadn't been to Ibiza at all, or we popped for the weekend and came back.

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The Midlife Mentors: I could believe it. It feels like a bit of a hazy dream now, and I think coming back to somewhere that you live and is very familiar…

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The Midlife Mentors: It's very comforting, but also it's a bit discombobulating that, like, oh, I've been away for 5 months, but it's all still exactly the same. Yeah, all the same faces in the gym this morning. I was like, oh, has it really been 5 months? I'm like, yep, yep, it has, but it is nice to be back, going to the pub, seeing people we know.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, getting out there, like, I've got a busy week of meetings coming up, going into the city, yeah, so that's exciting. Ibiza was great, I think, for renewal and relaxation. Yeah.

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The Midlife Mentors: Now it's time to go again. Now it's time to go, as spring comes, good time. So, let's…

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The Midlife Mentors: introduce you to our lovely guest today. James, do you want to introduce? Yeah, so we're so excited about this one. We're joined by Neil Taylor, who is the founder of Me and My Old Man. He basically helps adult children sit down with their parents, have conversations that really matter before it's too late. So, Neil, welcome! Hello!

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Neil Taylor: Hello, hello, thank you very much, thank you very much.

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The Midlife Mentors: I've got to add that Neil's made us jealous by saying that he's joining us from just outside Barcelona. Yeah, yeah, I was like, now I know what it was like when people were talking to us on our podcast in Ibiza. It's like, the smugness of us being in Ibiza has now come back to haunt us. Neil, tell us, like, how did you come up with the idea of this? What was the inspiration for getting started with this project?

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Neil Taylor: Well, yeah, it came out of, I guess, trauma, to start on a bad note. No, well, yeah, my dad passed away in 2021, and, I realized at that point I was… my career was,

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Neil Taylor: my kid was going through a bit of transition, and I had, had one child, and he passed away after a few years with dementia. And six days later, my son was born, so it was just a rollercoaster of, you know, that hallucination in the early days when you have a newborn.

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Neil Taylor: And just dealing with what just happened. And so out of that, I just felt this, you know, shock that I would… they would never meet, right? I kind of was conscious that the walls were closing, and they probably might not be in the same room. Even if they were physically, they wouldn't have been mentally in the same room, but just to have them, you know, have him cuddle with my son would have been beautiful.

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Neil Taylor: So yeah, so after that period, I guess, once I got through the dream and the sleepless nights, it just sort of stuck with me, this thought that, like, it was up to me to pass on my dad's essence to my son, right? So, all of those stories and the anecdotes and the way someone was, was up to me to pass on.

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Neil Taylor: And that felt like a heavy… quite heavy burden, and I just felt regretful that I hadn't taken the time to hear his stories. And the truth is, actually, I rewind back 8 years.

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Neil Taylor: And I had made an effort, right? I tried to get him to write down his story, so we… I was living abroad at the time, and we started this email chain and a document where he would…

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Neil Taylor: I'd say, right, tell me, let's start with where you were born, and then I'd ask some questions. But it was… it was very laborsome, and, you know, he wasn't fast on email, and there were just things he kept saying. I was like, oh my god, that's incredible, like, tell me more. And it would take 6 weeks, and he wouldn't answer the question, and he was trying to write like Shakespeare, and I was like, this isn't him, right?

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Neil Taylor: So we got to, like, 12 pages of that, 12, 15 pages. It's great. I don't really read it very often, but what I would give for his voice, like, I can't tell you what I'd give for his voice. And him telling a story with, like, this little chuckle he used to have before he would…

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Neil Taylor: he would chuckle at his own… himself, basically. Like, he would get towards the anecdote, the punchline, and he would start enjoying it. I just love to have that. And so, in 2024, it was a bit delayed, 3 years after it happened, in a break in my professional life.

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Neil Taylor: I was like, I've got to give this a crack. And I didn't know what it was gonna be.

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Neil Taylor: So I just started with 3 friends and their dads, actually, but it's completely open to mums and daughters and anyone, grandparents. And I interviewed my friend for an hour, and then I interviewed the dad for 4 hours.

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Neil Taylor: And then I edited it up and said, right, here you go, have a listen. And then we regrouped and had a session where I just was trying to understand, was this useful, was this interesting? And very quickly, I was like, this is…

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Neil Taylor: this is awesome. I mean, I don't tend to be… I've got a modest Englishman, but I was like, this is… I had a bit of imposter syndrome. I was like, is this useful? Am I… am I… should I be in this space?

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Neil Taylor: And then, by family too, I was like, this is needed, like, this conversation would not… this son would never have heard this story if I hadn't been here, making this thing happen.

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Neil Taylor: And so, fast forward about 15 months, I've done 32 families, 6 countries, 350 hours of life story interviews, and I'm like, this thing is gold. I just want more people to, you know, jump in.

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The Midlife Mentors: That's so beautiful. Yeah, I mean, I hope… we'll actually send this video out and snippets of this video, but anyone that listens to the podcast knows I'm a bit of a crier, so there will probably be… I just teared up just listening to… to some of what you just said, because I think…

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The Midlife Mentors: Particularly for our audience, which is midlife.

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The Midlife Mentors: this is going to resonate with them, because some of them would have already sadly lost their parents, but we're also very aware that time is ticking, that precious time with our parents is ticking away.

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The Midlife Mentors: And we can kind of shove that into the background of our lives, but what you're hopefully doing here, and with this podcast even going out, is to encourage people, even though it's uncomfortable, really, I suppose, to look at the reality that

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The Midlife Mentors: you know, our parents are aging. If we haven't lost them already, our parents are aging, and…

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The Midlife Mentors: What's some of that legacy and some of those really amazing, intimate moments that we can have with them before they pass.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's like, you know.

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Neil Taylor: I use the term sandwich generation. I know you guys talk about midlifers, but it's the same. For me, the sandwich generation just feels so, like, descriptive of what it feels like. You know, I'm one of these people, you know, I'm sandwiched between young children who are, you know, rushing around trying to get childcare in this week of Easter.

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Neil Taylor: And then parents are aging, and whether you're in a place where you're having to care for them, you might be just organizing a bit, or you might be helping them, or you might be seeing some decline.

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Neil Taylor: And that sort of sandwich is a difficult place to be in. So yeah, absolutely, and it's like, how does someone who's so busy find time for this kind of thing? So, and often you just… you said, like you said

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Neil Taylor: you put it to the back, because the meeting tomorrow and the presentation is calling your attention, and the parents' meeting in the evening is also calling your attention. So, you know, parents, sorry, see you later, kind of thing.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, and it's… I suppose it's that thing, like I said, it's that, you know, I'm very, very close with my parents. I am so blessed that I have both of them with me still. But, for sure, in the last few years, it has become…

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The Midlife Mentors: There's more of an awareness of them aging.

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The Midlife Mentors: and the gratitude that I have for being in their presence, and really making sure that I'm present with them when I'm with them, as much as I can be, with life being crazy the way that it is. But I think sometimes, you know, we want to…

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The Midlife Mentors: push those painful thoughts about the future away, so whatever's grabbing your attention…

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The Midlife Mentors: immediately, you know, like children, or work, or stuff like that, we're gonna go… we're gonna gravitate to those things, because we know what we're getting there, you know what I mean? Like, when we start diving into this stuff, it… it's… it might open up some stuff for… for people, right? I bet you see that a lot.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, I mean, there's this resistance, because…

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Neil Taylor: you know, as a middle-aged person, we don't… we don't have to confront death so immediately if we haven't got an illness of some sort. And it's the same for our parents. They've been, hopefully in most cases, they're a kind of a role model. There's someone you've… there's someone you've…

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Neil Taylor: always thought we'll be there. And I wrote this post once, which just sort of came out at me, which is just like.

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Neil Taylor: you know they won't always be there. There's gonna be a moment where you feel a sense of emptiness, because that person who you thought was gonna be there the whole time

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Neil Taylor: they won't be there. And so, if you know that, if you can kind of put that thought to the front of your mind, what would you do differently? Like, what questions would you ask them? How would you spend next weekend?

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Neil Taylor: how would you spend Friday morning? Would you maybe give them a call and just have no agenda, and just say.

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Neil Taylor: you know, ask a different question, not just how are you, and get into the weather, but be like, hey man, I was just thinking, you know, I'm 40 now, and when you were 40, you lived in, and we were this age, like…

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Neil Taylor: Was that… was that difficult? Or, you know, how did you find that?

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Neil Taylor: just try and change gears, but it's just not something… because you don't want to think about the death, you don't want to think about someone disappearing from your life, you don't want to, you know, it's something that we resist, and as you said, it's, like, easier to think about the to-do list.

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The Midlife Mentors: I guess an interesting angle, as well is that, you know, we know our parents.

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The Midlife Mentors: from our childhood upwards, right? And I guess, you know, as a child, like, how cognizant are you of the ins and outs of your parents' lives? But we've got that developing relationship, and we've become more aware.

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The Midlife Mentors: But really, we have no concept of the life they had before we came along.

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The Midlife Mentors: Unless we're Marty McFly and we go back in time and see them as teenagers, but I think that… that's really fascinating, that… it just made me think, like, you know, I don't really know anything about my… much about my parents pre-me, and what their lives were like. It's, do you find that when you're… when you're having these conversations?

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The Midlife Mentors: Do they tend to focus on.

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The Midlife Mentors: Stuff since the child had come into existence, all kind of pre that time.

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Neil Taylor: I think, in most cases, there's a lot of interest in pre, so someone who's coming in and saying, right, I want to know more, is saying, Mum, Dad, I have no idea about what happened before. I love that, right? So, in the child interview, the main question really is, what do you want to know? And so they might say.

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Neil Taylor: yeah, they might say that, they might say, I want to know before I arrive, but they might say, you know what, he's really good at telling jokes, and I would love to capture some of his best jokes, or…

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Neil Taylor: you know, there's a part where his career, you know, I don't know how he moved from that job to that job, and I've always wondered about that. Or, you know, what are his stresses and strains when he's my age, because I'm there now, and tell me about that. But there is often that early life thing, and it's so interesting that the…

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Neil Taylor: the first family, who was, like, my best friend, and his dad, who I knew kind of well,

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Neil Taylor: He said something in the wrap-up, which was that the dad said, he said, you know what?

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Neil Taylor: we have a good relationship, we speak all the time, right? He knows what I'm like. This is literally his, what he said at the basement. He knows what I'm like. But the great thing about this is that he now knows why I am like I am. He now knows why I took those decisions, and what made me who I am.

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Neil Taylor: And I was like, bingo. That's it. Because the context of the… of that journey that his dad went through.

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Neil Taylor: all of that explains… it lets him know who he is, looking upwards to Dad.

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Neil Taylor: But also, we've got to remember that… we know… We know, you know.

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Neil Taylor: it's common sense that we have some things like our parents, right? We might have some same mannerisms, we might have some same traits of being very determined, or, you know, putting off things to… to happen. But actually, the threads of their life, their life story.

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Neil Taylor: actually plays out in your body, in the way you act. And by connecting with that, I mean, it's scientifically proven, the more we know about our family history, the more we know about ourselves, our identity, our well-being improves, and our sense of belonging. But that story in the first family, I just was listening and thinking.

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Neil Taylor: there are so many patterns here that are, like you, my best friend. I know you, and you are basically your dad, but now you know that's because of that story, where he, you know, he had a chip on his shoulder and couldn't get into insurance because he felt like he was from, like.

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Neil Taylor: you know, woolage, and he was, making his own way, and that determination led him on that path to work super hard, super, super hard, maybe a bit too hard, and some things happened in family life, you know.

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Neil Taylor: you know, where that comes from is that point, and that is something I feel like we would all benefit from knowing.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah. It's so fascinating. It's so true, because actually, I think even in the last few years, there's some stuff that happened in my personal life, really, a few years ago, that just opened my eyes to what's important. And so, it changed the dynamic that I have with my parents, and I think…

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The Midlife Mentors: for me, there's been a lot of healing around some conversations I've had with my parents. I'm blessed to have had. There's many more. I mean, this is why we… we wanted to have you on, because it's… it's… this is really, really important, and…

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The Midlife Mentors: to me, I want to know as much as I possibly can, but I'm more aware of why they behaved in certain ways than I ever have been, and that brings a sense of compassion for the experiences I therefore had in my life.

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The Midlife Mentors: And it makes sense of why I behaved and did some certain things in my life. So there's… it's very healing, I imagine, what you do.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, that's a word that came up, recently, and I was… I was fairly blown away. Yeah, I was blown away.

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Neil Taylor: I mean, it's important to remind people that I'm not a therapist, I'm not here to fix any problems. I'm in that space underneath it, which is actually just helping you connect more closely with the people you love.

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Neil Taylor: In a very natural way, right? So there was one family who, actually, it's quite… it's quite sad. I'm gonna bring the tears here, Claire.

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Neil Taylor: A family with, a divorce in the middle of things, but a father with a terminal diagnosis, so he had cancer. This was about 3 months ago.

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Neil Taylor: And he lived…

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Neil Taylor: he is from somewhere else in the world, and they are now based in England, and they've never lived in that country. The two eldest kids lived in that country for a little while, and they now lived in England all their life. There was a period during the divorce where he went back to that country and came back and forth.

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Neil Taylor: And, that got explained in a good way. But actually, all of his history, so to James, your point, that life that he had.

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Neil Taylor: I mean, it's Israel, I'm being so secretive, but it's, you know, it's a difficult place to talk about, is a life that they don't have any idea of. Also, it was in the 70s, so it's very, very different, right? He lived in the kibbutz, and that whole idea is very new, right? And so…

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Neil Taylor: for that family to feel close to that idea of what dad was and where he came from, I think led to a lot of understanding. And the… not that we went into the mechanics of the separation and things.

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Neil Taylor: I think they were able to see his… his life, and how it affected him, and why he is like he is. Again, why he is like he is.

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Neil Taylor: And so, one of the daughters used that word, healing. She says, it's given us a lot of healing, because it's connected them to the place that they felt distanced from, and they had to sort of… they had to not mention where they were from, and kind of it was just hidden, because it is a difficult, you know, it's a complex place to be from.

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Neil Taylor: But it allowed them to connect to that… the motherland, as it were. They went and visited back… they went and visited back since the experience. He couldn't make it because he was not well. So that connected them to, you know, some of the kids spoke… spoke Hebrew for the first six years of their life, and then never spoke a word since. So it's like…

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Neil Taylor: how would they have ever made that happen? So they visited back without him, and then, here we go, unfortunately, he passed away, like, 6 weeks ago. And, I think…

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Neil Taylor: For me, I was like, you know, I just felt…

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Neil Taylor: pleased that I could have been a part of making that happen.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, do you get… do you get really emotional when you're doing…

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Neil Taylor: I can't look at the camera as I'm talking, yeah.

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The Midlife Mentors: No, no, no, it's… it's… it's all good. I mean, like, we're both quite emotional people, so you're in good company, but it must be… it must be quite…

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The Midlife Mentors: heavy on you, because obviously, yeah, like, you're not the therapist, but you're interviewing, you're hearing these stories, and you wouldn't be doing this if you hadn't been impacted in your own life by what happened with your dad, but… and you're obviously a very compassionate person to be doing this in the first place, so you must really feel these things.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah. Yeah, I bumped to a friend in the cafe the other day, and she's like, are you getting a therapist for all the stuff you're doing?

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The Midlife Mentors: It's dope.

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Neil Taylor: It's all that, it's not all deep, like, you know, it's all, you know, again, it's about stories, not skeletons, is another phrase I use. Obviously, things come up, and yeah, it is affecting, and I have to go for a good, nice little walk afterwards.

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The Midlife Mentors: Hmm.

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Neil Taylor: But, you know, like this case, I'm just…

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Neil Taylor: so glad I'm doing it. Like, this one, I was just like, I'm so glad that I played a role, and…

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Neil Taylor: Such a lovely family. And there's another one, like, it was 3 days ago, and, he was in the wrap-up session, and the dad, great storyteller, lovely storyteller, he was in advertising and, you know, worked with Steve Jobs and yadda yadda yadda. But in the last session, he just…

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Neil Taylor: I mean, I think his kids know he loves them, but he said, again, almost verbatim.

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Neil Taylor: what I got from this experience was… he goes, I thought I couldn't love my children anymore.

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Neil Taylor: But after this… I feel even closer to them.

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Neil Taylor: And then he explains… he answers a question about decision-making, because his son said, why do you think you made the decisions you made, and how do you feel about those big decisions? Because they lived abroad, again. And he basically told the story that at a certain point, he was brotherless, and he was… he divorced for them the first time, he got remarried to their mum.

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Neil Taylor: And at that point, his life just took an immediate turn, and he talks about the evening where they,

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, he said it's like a movie, so he was gonna take a job in New York, she worked in his team, and he says, I thought she worked for me.

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Neil Taylor: But in fact, she was in love with me. And he goes, and then we sat in this restaurant, and as you, you know, as they're putting the tables on the chairs, it was just me and her, and you know, she asked me this question, which I'd never thought about, which was, what do you want from your life?

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Neil Taylor: And so he said, I want 3 kids. And he goes, and there they are, sitting right in front of me on the record, on the session.

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The Midlife Mentors: Oh, wow.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, it was just beautiful. And then he talked about his decision-making, he said, you know, from that point onwards, my decisions were taken by two things.

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Neil Taylor: how to, you know, keep my career going, and what was best for my children. And I just thought, that's awesome. I would love to have that in my pocket to listen to anytime I wanted to.

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The Midlife Mentors: That's amazing. Yeah. Have you had anything, like, really surprising come up that kids have been really shocked or surprised, like, on a positive side of things? That you could tell us, by stuff their parents have done in the past? They could actually share.

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Neil Taylor: Oh, that's a good question.

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Neil Taylor: I mean, there's sort of smoking, you know, smoking weed and stuff, like, oh, I didn't know you smoked weed, and that's fine.

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Neil Taylor: Because when a parent talks to me, again, this is like when I had the imposter syndrome at the beginning, I thought, well, why can't someone just ask their own parent?

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Neil Taylor: But it's difficult, and it's difficult because of…

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Neil Taylor: you know, underneath it is a bit like, hey, you know, mum, you haven't got long left, you know, can I ask some questions? That sometimes is in there. Then there's this thing I wanted to say earlier, which is about guilt. Like, we feel like we should know things, like, say, I don't know, like, you know a lot, but you probably, you know, sometimes you feel like you should know that thing, so you don't ask the question.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yay.

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Neil Taylor: And obviously, that's crap, because…

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Neil Taylor: ask the question and get the information, but there are some of these dynamics, because that person has always been, you know, the adult to you. I know that changes as you come to midlife, and they get older, and you almost parent them in a way sometimes. What was your question? You were saying, surprising things.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, so speaking to someone objective.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah. You know, they're just a hu- they're just a human, and they…

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Neil Taylor: And they're happy to tell you that they smoked weed, because it's part of their… they get excited when they talk about their 20s.

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Neil Taylor: they went to Morocco, and they were, like, living on a beach for a bit.

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The Midlife Mentors: Crazy 60s! Yeah, yeah.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, yeah.

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The Midlife Mentors: I love that. I love that. And I've got a, I'd love to know, why… why do you think

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The Midlife Mentors: this is so important, Neil, that we do this with our parents. You've kind of touched on it, but I'd love to dive into that a little bit deeper, like…

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The Midlife Mentors: Why… why do you think, and those people that come to you to do this for them, why do they think this is so important?

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Neil Taylor: Well, I think for this audience, your audience, my audience, it's, you know, I think we come to this point in life where we start to ask some bigger questions about things, right? We've coasted through the 20s, we've probably followed what

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Neil Taylor: we thought was deemed necessary for us to do. You know, we might have gone to university, we might have started that job, gone into a career.

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Neil Taylor: whatever the thing is, you know, probably led by cultural and social norms about what should be done. In the 30s, we start to reassess a little bit, you know, before we try and find a life partner, maybe, maybe not, and sort of settling a little bit, and then you get into your 40s and you think.

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Neil Taylor: Oh, crap, okay, I'm here now. Well…

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Neil Taylor: It's just it. I mean, yeah.

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Neil Taylor: Is this it?

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Neil Taylor: And so why I think this is so important is that

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Neil Taylor: In that… in that fuzziness, in that, you know, difficult area that we are in, we often…

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Neil Taylor: look for guidance, so we might find a outstanding entrepreneur, and be like, I'm gonna follow this person, they've got great tips, oh, I'm gonna follow this, I want to work harder. You might follow a parenting

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Neil Taylor: guide. You might find coaches like you guys, you know? And all these things are great and positive. And then you might be reading a lot, you know, you might read a biography of someone who's inspiring.

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Neil Taylor: But why don't you connect with the life story of the person who brought you up?

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Neil Taylor: Like, there's so much wisdom there, and it's also deeper about who you are, where you come from.

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Neil Taylor: your place in the world, and I think the lessons and learnings and insights

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Neil Taylor: can be so much more personal and effective. Like you were saying earlier, like, if they messed up in their 40s, you give them a bit of slack, and you feel that empathy and compassion for that person who's your mum, and you love them.

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Neil Taylor: And you can also give yourself a break and be like, okay, yeah, they didn't really know what they were doing either. Like this guy, you know, he was a high-flying, whatever, advertising exec.

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Neil Taylor: he said he was rudderless, and he was probably at a high level, but already by then. You know? And to hear that, I think, is very useful, because you can just put your own struggles into context, and…

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Neil Taylor: kind of just give yourself a break. So, it kind of goes back to where the science is. It's like, the more family… the more family storytelling around the dinner table leads to increased emotional well-being, sense of belonging, and identity.

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Neil Taylor: And that applies when you're 6 years old and when you're 46 years old.

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The Midlife Mentors: I love that, I love that. So, what's the process? You kind of touched on that. Do you ask the children first, kind of, like, what questions they want answered? You mentioned you interview the children, then you interview the parents. Kind of maybe break it down a little bit?

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, sure. So we have an onboarding call, which is quite fun, it's just to get the family excited, so that's where we just do all the scheduling and explain and answer any questions and the apprehensions that the parents might have, because often it comes from the 40-year-old, the midlifer.

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Neil Taylor: And after that, I have a little bit of homework for the kids, so they just have to… well, I send them both parent and child, adult-child, a reflection guide, so this is full of prompts, so a load of questions in different areas, to get them thinking. So the important thing is the child there is walking, going for a walk, and thinking about mom in a different way, or dad in a different way.

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Neil Taylor: I give them five questions to send me beforehand, and I use that as a bit of an agenda. And it is… the one question is, like, what do you want to know? But I've realized I've evolved it, because…

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Neil Taylor: I had one daughter who called after listening back to her session, and she said… she said, oh, that sounds a bit arrogant, but, you know, I know it's me talking.

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Neil Taylor: But it was really nice to hear me talk about my dad, because I really admire him and think he's… I think he's awesome, and that was just a really nice experience. So that made me realize, actually, in that session, there's a lot of…

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Neil Taylor: let's flesh out some core memories and, like, ways you see them, and yeah, tell me a bit about their potted history, so I have some hooks and understanding of where that is, but let's use this time for you to, like, talk about one person for one hour, which never happens, let alone someone you love.

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Neil Taylor: So yeah, we'll do the kids in that sort of phase, so if it's all the siblings, again, let's get to siblings, because that's a really interesting thing as well. And then, come on to the parent, and actually now I do three two-hour sessions.

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Neil Taylor: I don't give the parent any homework, because I don't want to put any pressure on them, but again, they've been given all these prompts and thoughts, and some of them are… well, they're mainly based around each life stage, so really going back into the day you were born, and your parents and your grandparents, which, again, is amazing things to hear. Like, you know, Claire, if you think about, you know your mum well, but do you know your mum's mum well?

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Neil Taylor: you have your relationship with her as a grandma and a grandpa, but what was their relationship like? You know, how does that… how does that play out for her? Why is that… how does that impact how she is?

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Neil Taylor: So yeah, so the parent sessions are 3 open-ended… they're 6 hours because I want to give them the space to go down a little road and discover something new. And it's so beautiful when, you know, one question I have is.

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Neil Taylor: which always is a good one, is, tell me about your family home when you were 6 years old. And I say to them, right, stand at the front door.

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Neil Taylor: Tell me what can you see? What can you hear?

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Neil Taylor: What does it smell like? Use your five senses. And the level of description you can get from that question is incredible. So they will tell you about the roses on the side of the door, how every time… and the woman's like, that's actually my first memory, I think, the roses on the outside of my house.

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The Midlife Mentors: And she.

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Neil Taylor: She walks in, she goes, it was always cold, very cold, and then you hear about the coal fires, because they didn't have heating.

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Neil Taylor: Or the bathtub in the kitchen, someone said.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yay!

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, and then put the… to eat on top of it with a door, I think, or just a plank of wood, and then they take it off and have a bath, you know?

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The Midlife Mentors: forget.

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Neil Taylor: But yeah, and then talk about, yeah, the family home in a way which their children would never have heard, I don't think. Yeah, so then the three sessions were open-ended. Towards the middle of the third one, I then had these reflection questions, which are a bit more…

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Neil Taylor: you know, is there a moment in your life where you thought it'd all gone to crap and you didn't know what to do? You know, what were your… what do you… what did you worry about?

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Neil Taylor: In your 40s that you wished you didn't.

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Neil Taylor: These kinds of great questions. And then at the… well, there's a surprise that I never tell anyone, so I won't tell you that. Yeah, but it's fun, basically. There's the hint.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah.

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Neil Taylor: And then after that, sorry, after that parent stage, I share it all back, it's all edited, sounds like the best podcast we've ever heard, like, transitions and music.

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Neil Taylor: it's just flowing and smooth, and people just say how soothing it is, so that's my sort of brand, is, you know, warm cocoa by a fire. You know, just sit back and go for a walk, walk the dog, go for a long journey.

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Neil Taylor: And then after that, I have just 3 homework questions, which is, you know, what stood out for you, what do you want to explore more, and how's this whole experience been? And that's the final session that I've been referring to. And that gets added to this audiobook.

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Neil Taylor: So they have, you know, 8 to 10 chapters of this audiobook they can have forever on their phone. But in addition, you know, that's what you get in your hands.

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Neil Taylor: But…

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Neil Taylor: what you get, like, it sounds a bit cheesy, but what you get in your heart is this transformation, and I'm only saying this because I didn't go in with this as the plan, but this is what's been fed back to me, is, like, siblings feeling closer, saying that there's… this is a relationship, there's a connection we have now that we never had.

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Neil Taylor: There's things, you know, obviously parent to child, which is, you know, I now know why he did that, and I feel closer to him, and what, you know, that example of the… what he said about his children, he never felt closer. So, yeah, I'm blown away by some of the impact it's having.

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The Midlife Mentors: Wow, so that's a… that's the kind of physical thing, even though it's an audiobook, but, like, that's the kind of thing that they… they walk away with. But yeah, I mean, the… That's brilliant. The transformation, and that…

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, because, well, you don't have siblings, you're an only child, but I always say about my brother and I, like, we have such different narratives around our childhoods. We… and we couldn't be more like chalk and cheese, my brother and I, but we were brought up by the same parents.

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The Midlife Mentors: exactly the same, and yet we are so, so different. So, I've always kind of wanted to explore why that is, because I always say to James, like, why are we so different? Like, I adore my brother to pieces, I know he adores me as well, but, like, yeah, completely different experiences of growing up, and then what we went on to do with our lives.

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Neil Taylor: It's very cool, I mean, I don't know the age gap. What's the age gap between you two?

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The Midlife Mentors: Four years. Nearly four years.

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Neil Taylor: So I had one that was, three siblings, they live in… across the world, France, Canada, the UK, and there's… I think the gaps were, like, 4 years and maybe 4 years again. And the… the sibling, sort of, transformation, in in vertical commas, if I can call it that, there was…

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Neil Taylor: they… that was the biggest thing for them. They said… they said, we have a connection as siblings now that we didn't have before, and I was like, wow, okay. But what they… because what they realized is when they heard their brother or sister talking about their childhood, their frame of reference was completely different. What they remember was completely different. They were also a different age when things were happening, so it's like…

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Neil Taylor: you know, you might have been, I don't know if you're the old one, but, you know, you might have been seeing some stress in the household at that point, or you knew, you know, you were conscious that it was tight, things were tight, or you might remember that family holiday being, like, magical, and he's like, no, that was terrible, because I hated the sun, and I, you know, sun cream was annoying.

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Neil Taylor: But you just, you get to understand, again, more empathy and compassion for your sibling's experience.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yes.

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Neil Taylor: And that just… that's also just gonna bring you closer. And because you listen to them, you know, you're on a… you're not in the room with them. I think there's something that I'm learning here.

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Neil Taylor: When you have the chance to listen to someone fully for an hour, and you're not there interrupting them, or trying to find out, like, your truth from what they're saying.

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Neil Taylor: You can actually just listen to them and Neil talk for an hour, and it's… you will think of them differently, I think.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah. Well, it's so funny, isn't it? Like, we always want our own… we've got our own lens on it, but when you're just listening to something, you know, you're just taking that in, like you say, without feeling like you want to get something from it yourself, or projecting

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The Midlife Mentors: yourself onto it. You can't project yourself onto it, because you're just taking it in auditory.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Neil Taylor: Look, there was one, there was one…

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Neil Taylor: as I was… in the early days, and I've… yeah, I've improved a lot of how I'm not doing that as an interviewer. But there was an early… the fourth family, it was interesting, so the dad…

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Neil Taylor: I knew them as sort of family, extended family.

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Neil Taylor: Dad's a very quiet man, a lovely bear of a man, he would be in a room and you wouldn't notice he was there, yet he'd probably pick up the bill, you know, slyly, you know, one of those ones. Just very warm, but not very talkative at all. And so, the son was listening back to his recordings, so that was the first one that went to 6 hours, because he was given the space

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Neil Taylor: he just went for it. I couldn't believe it. He was just talking, talking, talking, talking, talking. His whole life story was beautiful. And then my…

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The Midlife Mentors: cry.

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Neil Taylor: I'm…

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The Midlife Mentors: Bless him.

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Neil Taylor: My mum walked into the room when… it's my brother-in-law, so my brother-in-law and his dad… she walked into the room, and he was listening to you on the kitchen.

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Neil Taylor: And my mum walks in, she goes, is that… is that your dad? Because she… I think she knew I was doing a project, but she was like, is that… is that his voice? And he was like, yeah. She goes, I've never heard him talk like that before. And they sort of stood there for, like, a couple of minutes, and he was just telling this great story about buying his first record, like, Elvis Presley, yadda yadda.

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, and then, so we came to the end, session.

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Neil Taylor: And… I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but when they were… when we were talking, it's always different, that wrap-up, because families are very different. Like, I don't know… I don't know if this family's gonna take the Mickey out of each other, or they're gonna be very respectful and put themselves on mute.

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Neil Taylor: or if they want to just talk about their holidays, that's happened before, they just want to reminisce and stuff, you know, whatever, whatever goes, goes. And in this one, I just noticed that when his dad was talking, he was interrupting him to try and either clarify or keep him talking.

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Neil Taylor: And what I found from the previous 6 hours was that if you just give them a pause.

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Neil Taylor: A bit longer than you feel comfortable.

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Neil Taylor: He wants to get it out. And so, it was… yeah. And I'm guilty of that in my own relationship with my, you know, whatever, daughter.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah! But… Yeah.

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Neil Taylor: Honestly, the pause, just giving people…

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Neil Taylor: a bit more time to just not… so you don't come in and project, or analyze, or give them your view, you just let them talk. It's quite an… I think that's a nice experience for them, yeah, and it's…

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah. I've got one more question before we wrap up. I hope you don't mind me asking you this question. It might… yeah, has this helped?

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The Midlife Mentors: with… You're coming to terms with your… Father passing.

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Neil Taylor: Yes, fine to ask. Yeah, I think…

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Neil Taylor: there was a delay, right? So, everyone's grief journey is different, so 2021 to 2024, when this sort of came to life.

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Neil Taylor: I don't know what was going on in my head in those years between,

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Neil Taylor: I mean, my… my, I guess, grief journey is just…

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Neil Taylor: If I could explain it that way.

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Neil Taylor: I just have sometimes get really… I just sometimes cry out of nowhere, you know, like, see a bird flying in a tree, and be like, just start crying. Other than that, you know, quite tight-lipped, probably, as a, you know, English man, with public school upbringing. And so then it came out.

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Neil Taylor: through the project, and, like, as I was…

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Neil Taylor: you know, as I was creating the website in 3 hours, you know, I did shed a tear, and I was like… I just felt…

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Neil Taylor: That something positive was coming out of it.

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Neil Taylor: Another great thing is that it makes him live on, like, so his essence is now, like, in this whole thing. And what happens is my daughter comes in the room, and she's like, oh, is that Grandpa? And then she knows I'm making recordings, kind of, from Grandpa, sort of linked.

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Neil Taylor: So we have these conversations about him that would never have happened. There's photos lying around because I'm sort of using them.

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Neil Taylor: So that's really nice, because he's more in my life than he ever would have been, and I think that's a nice thing.

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Neil Taylor: People sometimes ask me, are you gonna change the name, me and my old man? And I… might, in time, but as I said once, for now, it's… it puts him in front and center, that's, like, the inspiration point, that's why this is here.

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Neil Taylor: So I think it's, yeah, it's definitely helped me. I think, you know, the alternative, the alternative would have been…

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Neil Taylor: Maybe many of your clients and people you speak with is… the alternative would have been me continuing on as a sustainability consultant.

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Neil Taylor: working my 9 to 5, trying to make more time for my life and my family and my friends, and trying to just balance it all, and probably just putting this in the cupboard behind me, you know, and not really engaging on what it means to be… what he meant to me, what he means to me, how his death makes me want to live my life, but from…

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Neil Taylor: now that I'm making this my thing, my, my thing, you know, what I do every day.

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Neil Taylor: I feel like it's… it's taken a great, positive step from Something crappy.

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The Midlife Mentors: It's amazing what you're doing. Yeah. I knew I'd cry again. It's really incredible. Yeah, it's really beautiful what you're doing in the world for people. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, thank you for sharing it all, and sharing your personal story. I knew it was going to be a weepy one, but…

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Neil Taylor: Until you were crying, actually. I was like.

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The Midlife Mentors: Yeah, no, just from my… just from my side, because, you know, like, when James, said, oh, look at this guy, we want him on our podcast, and, you know, we do get…

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The Midlife Mentors: people messaging us and stuff, and then I read about you, and I was like, yeah, we definitely need to… we definitely need to get new on, because also, just what you're doing.

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The Midlife Mentors: For people is, is really special, very important, and, yeah.

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The Midlife Mentors: Thank you, thank you for doing it in the world. If people want to find out more about you, contact you to start the process, how can they do that?

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Neil Taylor: Yeah, thanks. Well, the website is probably the first place to go to, so that's meandmyoldman.co.uk.

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Neil Taylor: on there, I've got a little tool, which is quite nice, which is the 10 Questions to Ask Your Parents, and in that, there's lots of… there's scripts and prompts and ways to, you know, just to get going. But as you download that, you can then be subscribed to my newsletter, so I've got, you know, once a week, I'll send something out, which is sharing some of these stories that I've got and insights.

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Neil Taylor: My email is neil at meameyoldman.co.uk, so go for it, go straight, go direct. I'm also on Instagram, under my name, which is Neil P. Taylor, so N-E-I-L-P-T-A-Y-L-O-R underscore.

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The Midlife Mentors: Perfect. Fab. We'll put all those in the show notes as well. Yeah, we will, so they'll be easy to find in the show notes, too, so… Neil, thank you so, so much. It's just brilliant, it's brilliant what you're doing. Really is, it really is, so thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you.

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Neil Taylor: Guys, cheers.