Building HER with Katja Lillian
Do you want to build the best version of yourself and therefore life? If so, you’ve come to the right podcast! Tune in every week for inspiring conversations and unfiltered stories that will leave you feeling empowered and excited so that you can build a life that aligns with your deepest values and one you wake up excited for. Your host, life coach and entrepreneur, Katja Lillian, will draw on her years of self-education, her experience building a business, & lessons from her mentors to deliver helpful advice, actionable steps, and next-level mindset hacks. Are you ready? Let’s go start Building HER!
Building HER with Katja Lillian
No Plan B: Why Amber Figlow Took the Pay Cut, Left Corporate, and Built a Marketing Empire
In today's episode, I am joined by Amber Figlow, not only a dear friend of mine but also an absolute POWERHOUSE when it comes to marketing.
As a Content Strategist, Creator, and Speaker, Amber Figlow cuts through marketing noise to deliver strategies that drive real results. With over a decade of experience—from side hustler to Fortune 500 consultant to entrepreneur—she helps small business owners create sustainable content systems without the overwhelm. Acting as an experienced guide in content marketing, she shows proven shortcuts while maintaining authenticity. Through her 1:1 services, memberships, and digital products, she has helped hundreds of business owners build content strategies that work for them, not against them. Instead of chasing trends, she shows clients how to create authentic content that attracts the right people and lets them focus on what they truly love about their business.
We discuss the following:
- How she left her 9-5 even when her family thought she was crazy
- Her fear of judgement & how she moved through it
- How to navigate the new landscape of social media
- What to do when you feel overwhelmed with content creation
- Why she would rather have 2,000 followers vs her current half a million 😳
Other places you can find her:
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Building Her podcast. I'm your host, Kati Lillian. If you've been loving this podcast, go ahead and rate the podcast five stars and DM me on Instagram when you do that because I want to connect and personally thank you. If you are new here, hit that subscribe button. It really helps the podcast grow, and that way you will never miss an episode. So let's get to it. I am. Honored. Let's say honored because I. Have Amber Filo on the podcast, and for those of you who don't know, I will get into a little blurb about who she is. But before I do that, she is the first marketing expert that I have on the podcast. And I really, really thought this was so special and I really wanted to do this for you all because. All of my entrepreneurial solopreneur, mompreneur, girlies out there listening to this, marketing is always a topic of discussion. And with the ever-changing social media landscape and the damn algorithm, and now. Ai, it's just ever evolving, and I feel like most of us don't ever get a grasp on it. And if we do, it's already changed. And so she has given us so much insight into what is even happening, but also what she would do and what she would recommend us to do. So I'm just honored that I have someone like her on the podcast today. So let's do it as a content strategist, creator, and speaker. Amber Filo cuts through the marketing noise to deliver strategies that drive real results. With over a decade of experience from side hustlers to Fortune 500 consultant to entrepreneur, she helps small business owners create sustainable content systems without the overwhelm. Yes, please. Acting as an experienced guide in content marketing. She shows proven shortcuts while maintaining authenticity through her one-on-one services, memberships and digital products, she has helped hundreds of business owners build content strategies that work for them. Not against them. Instead of chasing trends, she shows clients how to create authentic content that attracts the right people and lets them focus on what they truly love about their business. We chat about so much in this episode. This is actually the longest. Interview I've ever done. I truly did not wanna stop. This goes over an hour. I felt like Steve Bartlett a little bit where he interviews his guests for, I think it's three plus hours. So we're not there yet, but this was the longest one. So there's just so much juicy content in this one. We chat about how she left her nine to five even when her family and everyone around her thought she was crazy to do so she took a$15,000 pay cut and started working in marketing for a small. Business before she went all in on her own. We talk about her fear of judgment and how she moved through that. We talk about content creation and how to navigate it, and it's ever changing, ever evolving landscape and what to do if you feel overwhelmed by it. Why she would rather have only 2000 followers versus her existing current half a million, I mean. Hello. So I'll shut up over here. Get excited, get your notebooks out. You're going to want to take notes on this episode. And, yeah, let's dive into this interview. Hey, my name is Kati Lillian, and I am obsessed with all things mindset, personal development, and helping you build the best version of yourself. I'm a women's life and mindset coach and an entrepreneur who started a fun hobby of posting hashtag sweaty selfies, grew a successful side hustle, and now I run a six figure coaching business. I teach you the secret of building a life that aligns with your deepest values and one that you wake up excited for. This podcast is designed to expand your mind and. Challenge the status quo. So get ready to uplevel your life and let's start building her.
Audio Only - All Participants:Hi, Amber. Thank you so much for joining us here on the building Her podcast. I'm so, so excited for you to join us. It's been long overdue. I've had this podcast for over a year now, and I'm like, why the fuck have I not invited Amber yet? So here you are. Yay. I'm so excited to be here. I love listening to the episodes. So now I'm super excited to be on an episode. Yay. And I know it's only going to be the first of many. I know this conversation's going to be so good for our listeners, but selfishly myself. Yes. Before we dive into all of my questions that I have for you, if people don't already know you here on the podcast or from Instagram or wherever, why don't you just give yourself like a brief introduction and then we'll go ahead and dive in. Totally. Well, for those of you that do not know me, my name is Amber Filo and I am actually a content strategist and I focus on helping small business owners with content ecosystems. So I bring a little bit of the Type A, I'm a Virgo if you subscribe to that sort of thing. I bring a little bit of that organization, a little bit of that kind of a little bit more structure to something that's otherwise something that feels very creative, content creation, content marketing, that kind of thing. And specifically I love working with small business owners in the creative ish online world space. So I don't do like the big corporate stuff, I don't do all that kinda stuff. I wanna help the mom entrepreneurs, I wanna help the wedding photographers, I wanna help the coaches, the consultants, the, this, that, and the other. So that's my bread and butter and my jam. And I just want to help people market their small businesses and that way they have the freedom to do what they want to do. You are speaking my language. As soon as you said mompreneurs, I'm like, Hey, that's me now. It's you. I know. Which I love seeing that evolution and journey for you too. It's been so enlightening. I love it. Oh, yay. I'm so glad. I, I really just, I, I speak from, you know, my experience and, and I've noticed actually that pisses some people off, which we'll get to here in a minute, but, oh, yeah. It's really interesting of, of this new evolution that I've discovered for myself and how triggering that is for some people. So. Mm-hmm. Anyways, that's the internet. We'll dive into that. Yeah. Oh, yes. Believe me, I have words to say about this internet. Good, good. Don't hold back. Yes. So before we dive into like the content piece, what you do for a living I'm so curious because a lot of my listeners are also early and aspiring coaches, but also online service providers, right. They, they wanna show up online and. They feel icky, they feel cringe and all the things. Or what if I do this and it fails, can I actually make money? Right. All those thoughts. Yes. So if we could rewind a little bit in your journey, what was the start of your business like? Like what was the pull towards this content strategy type position that you had built for yourself? Absolutely. I was gonna say we could take it back super far, but to give you the cliff note version, I have always had an entrepreneurial spirit in my heart. You know, the kid selling lemonade and cookies. I did like jewelry and scrapbooking and would sell it to other people in high school. I literally, I've tried anything in everything and I actually started my journey in corporate America doing corporate marketing. But I always had a side hustle. I was known as the queen of overworking. I, like literally in all of my twenties, did not take days off. I was in hustle mode, let's be honest. So I've always had some sort of entrepreneurial journey, if you will, but full-time entrepreneurship didn't happen for me until like about six years ago. And lemme tell you what, that has changed. A lot has changed in those last six years. But what happened is I was so. I was so pissed off at my corporate job of the red tape, the politics, the, I have a great idea, but oh, we need to talk to Bob in accounting before we get approval on this thing. And I'm like, it's gonna take six weeks. And I'm like, it is literally me just wanting to do one small little thing. So I was very, very frustrated. And at that point I had been freelancing and kind of doing my own thing and. Putting subtleties out into the universe and the world that I don't wanna be doing this anymore. So I ended up taking a$15,000 pay cut, left corporate and went off to be a marketing manager for a small clothing boutique. And while that wasn't exactly my entrepreneurship start it, it put planted a seed because as I was doing that, I was in charge. I was the one doing everything for this small business. I saw how a small business was run and I freelanced on the side for other clients and things like that. I didn't make it long at that job. So seven months later, I actually. Fully dove in to just doing my marketing thing. And I started out by offering literally any marketing service you can think of, and that's overwhelming. I've obviously niched down and dialed it in over the years, but for me it truly was, I couldn't do it anymore. I was at point of burnout, I was at point of frustration and I said, you know what? If I fail, I'm gonna fall flat on my face, but I don't care. At least I tried. Love that. Yes. Mm-hmm. That's so good. I. I feel like we could just end the show right there. I know. I was gonna say, I have quite, I, I could go off on tangents. There's stories on stories on stories. Oh my gosh. In that journey in and of itself, I think this might be the, the diary of A CEO, Steven Bartlett. He has three hour long episodes. So just, you know, maybe I was gonna say we're gonna work on that'cause I'm a yapper and I could do it. Same. Same. Okay. You said so much. I could go in so many different directions. I think what really hit home was how you were pissed off at the corporate structure and the dynamics with the red tape you mentioned and the politics. I remember I felt the same way, not early. So when you described your entrepreneurial spirit, I actually was so different. Like, I love school, I was like straight A student, like honors all that stuff. But, but I, I hate to say this, but like, school failed me. Yes. Because once I graduated I had a free internship unpaid, and then they hired me full time, but the salary was shit. Like literally Oh yeah.$24,000 I think. So nothing crumbs, nothing. And I lived in la I'm like, okay, cool. Thanks so much for gas money. Yes, that's it. And so, but, but that's all I knew. Right? And so. I worked really hard. I commuted 90 minutes there, back three hours in the car every day. And then I got fired after six months and fired. Getting fired was my catalyst. Yes. I was like, what the fuck is this whole like corporate American dream bullshit that I have been sold because I did it right? Yes. I followed the rules. Right. And it failed me. And so that was like, let's call it my big aha moment of mm-hmm. Questioning now the system. Yes. Right. And I think that planted the seed to your point of like, is this what I worked so hard for? Like Correct. And so I can totally relate with that feeling. Admittedly when I turned to online and I also started like a side hustle and I dabbled, if you will. Yes, I, I though I still was very afraid of showing up online and fear of judgment, especially like what the ex-coworkers would think and all that stuff. So were you ever nervous about showing up online? And I think more importantly for the woman who's listening, what advice would you give her if she is at the start of her journey and she has some of those thoughts? Yeah. So for me, I think my biggest fear around showing up online, like I, I've already mentioned it, I'm a yapper, so I've always enjoyed the public speaking aspect of things like that has always come naturally and I've always enjoyed it. So that part is not what I was scared of. For me, it was the judgment and not necessarily from people, online, strangers. For me that didn't kind of cause me pain and issue. It was family members and friends and like you said, the former coworkers who I literally would like. I left my corporate job and I said, I can't do this anymore for X, Y, Z reason. And knowing that I'd be going online and potentially not talking shit about them, but talking shit about the company, like I found out at one point they bought a beanbag that was worth more than my yearly salary increase for the year, and I was like. So, oh, yeah. And I wanted to tell those stories online. I wanted to share my journey, but I was like, oh, what happens if these people listen to this or hear this, or a big thing with my friends and family, they thought I was absolutely insane for Lee. I made good money at this corporate job. They thought I was crazy. They were like, why are you leaving such a, you worked so hard to get here. You're throwing it all away. You're throwing away your dream. And I said, no, I am. I'm actually leaving behind something that I was felt I was forced into. So yes, the judgment and the fear that I faced was with people. I was actually closest with strangers online. I couldn't give two shits about them. And that is kind of like my own how I approach things. But I know that's not always easy for everybody, that the strangers are the ones that we fear the most. But for me, what I did is I would show up and if I saw a family member starting to dabble, or sometimes you can, you know, when they're sneaking in on you. Sometimes I hit that mute button, that block button, that I still do that to this day. That there are certain me family members that I have muted on social media because I know that all they're doing is they are wandering eyes, peering eyes. They are the ones who want something from me or wanna just like keep an eye on me. And I'm like, I'm not gonna give you that. So I know it's very hard and it feels very scary, but showing up authentically is also what's going to help. So when I first started showing up online, I thought I had to be professional. Take the word professional however you want. But for me, I was like, I was still stuck in that corporate mindset. The minute I showed up and drop an F bomb on like the first piece of content, I was like, oh my God, everybody's gonna hate me. And that's when things started popping off. So also showing up in that authenticity of who you are as well will help. It's scary, but it's gonna help. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you for giving me permission to curse more. Oh yeah. I'm telling you, if you guys watch my content, there's quite a few f-bombs. Well, it's so interesting because here on the podcast, I curse all day, every day. I think I've already dropped some F-bombs, but when I get behind the camera for Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, whatever it's almost like I have a wall that's built up like, like I get vanilla nice. In my language, and I'm like, what's this about? So that's actually something I'm still working through today. Yes. Because I'm trying to play around more with direct to camera and I'm like, oh, this is an art. We've gotta learn this thing. Again, it's skill set. You have to learn. It's a tough one. Oh my goodness. And I think it's like the nature of, it's so awkward because you're staring at yourself, you know, and you're like, okay, like how do I act like I'm FaceTiming a friend and just talking? Mm-hmm. And yapping. So yes. Okay. Judgment, fear of judgment. I think every single person listening to this can agree with that. Whether it's the stranger, the friend, the family member, the ex-coworker. There's always some level of fear of judgment.'cause I think even deeper, it's the judgment of what if I fail? Yes. Like, what if I publicly put myself out there and I left my cushy job and nothing happens. Right? Yes. Like, like that's the bigger fear. So what would you tell someone who's right there? Right? Yes. Like on the cusp of, I wanna quit. I hate this corporate job even though I'm making awesome money and I've got the 401k and all the things, and people love me for it, but I just hate it. Like, it's literally soul sucking. Yes. What would you tell her? So there's like, I'm gonna butcher this quote, but I see it all the time floating around on the internet. I feel like you've shared some things very similarly, is that when you look. At yourself a year from now, do you want to have all of those touch points of pieces of content where you put yourself out there you started the business a year from now? Would you rather look back and say, I did it, I tried, or do you wanna be in the same spot that you are in right now? So, the way that I look at it, of course, the judgment, the f the fear of failure is always going to be there. But you have to think to yourself in a year's time, do I wanna look back and say, I tried, or do I wanna look back and say, I regret not trying. So that's kind of the way that I always think about it. Even to this day, I am very online all day, every day. Chronically. There are times when I try something new or try something different, it's still scary. I'm like, oh, this might fall. I flat on my face. I might not get as many likes, might not get as many comments might get trolls, this, that and the other. That fear, I'm gonna be honest with you guys, won't go away. It'll show up in different ways. But the way that I look at it, I look back at my journey now and I see what I've done and I am so proud. Like I think back to 2017, Amber, and she's looking at me right now and she's like, holy shit, we did it. You know? So I just want you to think of future. You, you in the moment is gonna be uncomfortable. It's not gonna feel good. Discomfort is something that we have to sit in. Our nervous system doesn't like it be for a lot of different reasons, but you have to push through that. Knowing that future you, even if you do fail. Failure is just a lesson. Even if you do fail, you will prove something to yourself. You are like, okay, I failed. I know that didn't work. Cool. What's the next thing? That's the way I approach it. Yes. So powerful. Yes. I feel like mic drop right there. Yes. I think well, well, so much came up for me as you said that because I actually don't like the word fail or failure. It, it just feels so heavy. Right? It's, it's like even though I fail, it's like, oh, but still fail. It's like such a icky word. Yeah. So what I was able to do early on in my journey is actually just cut out that vocabulary and flip it with learn. So there's no such thing as failing. It's win or learn. Yes. And I think that learn piece has given me so much freedom to experiment essentially. Like, let's try a podcast, let's try this real, let's try a TikTok. And not being married to the the metrics and making it mean something about me. It's really like this experimentation mindset. And I think that's been huge for me because failure doesn't exist, y'all. It doesn't. I know. And we're so conditioned to believe it does. And one thing I think you shared a, it was like a little meme or quote on this recently. They're like my. Dream is entrepreneurship. It is whatever, X, Y, Z. Insert your dream there. My fallback is a nine to five, which is everybody else's daily. And I'm like, that's not a bad, that's not failure. To me, that's other people's dream. And that's my fallback, my quote unquote failure. I'm fine with that. That's fine. Yes. Wait, I'm so glad I shared that. I'm so glad you saw it. Oh yes. I was like, I love that. Oh, yay. Yeah. That has given me so much. I, I a peace of mind and, and mental property back, right? Because I think obviously entrepreneurship, there's highs, there's lows, there's still, you know, new levels that we try like, oh, I wanna launch this thing, or I wanna raise my prices. Like, there's always this level that stretches you out of that comfort zone. And so I'm continuously reminding myself, oh, this is fine. Like if it doesn't work and I have negative dollars in the bank and I get kicked outta my house and I die. Worst case, doomsday scenario. Totally. Nine to five is there. So Exactly. That's the way I think about it. And I'm like, or listen, I would love to go be a little barista in a local coffee shop. You know? I'm like, that's that's totally fine by me too. Oh my gosh, love. That was actually one of the best times in college. I was a hostess and then a server, and it was just so fun. And I love the people and, yeah. Yeah. Okay. One other thing you mentioned, it is like, when we reflect back on this time, I always ask the question to my clients, like, if you're 80, right? Yeah. 80 years old, and you're reflecting back on this moment right now, and this decision and this choice, would she either be proud or would she be essentially like disappointed? Right. And if she's proud, well, there's your answer. Like, that's the route you're going to take. And I think that's such a powerful way to look at it. And it, it has like a zoom out. It does perspective on it. Right. And then last thing I'll say, and then I wanna ask you about content,'cause you're the queen of it. It's like, I'd rather want to be one of the players on the field. And I think this analogy came from Gary V Yes. Long time ago. But it's like, I'd rather be a player on the field and yes, I'm getting tackled and yes, I'm getting interceptions and like all this shit, but sometimes I, I have a touchdown, right? Yes. And at least I'm trying versus someone else who's maybe opinionated or judging or usually it's perceived in our head. Well, they're in the bleacher. Yes. And they've got their popcorn and they've got their Coke and they can be comfortable and whatever, but it's like they let them enjoy it. I'm here. Enjoy. Yeah. Yes. I'm on the field. Yes. And I really like that analogy. That's so powerful for me. Yes. I love that too. I, I, I totally agree. And just being the player on the field feels better, even if it hurts, than sitting on the bench is the way I think about it too. Yes, yes. Sometimes the tackles are very, very hard. They hurt sometimes, let's be honest. Okay. So. A lot of my listeners as well, they, I feel like they overthink and they become paralyzed with this idea of content creation. Like you just said, I think before I hit record, it's a beast, right? So let's say I love Instagram because that's where I started, that's where my journey started with tone it up and everything. But then it's like the bigger you wanna get, it's like, okay, well then what, what about TikTok? And then, oh, well actually there's YouTube and oh, well there's shorts, but then there's also long form, and now I have a podcast, so you better add video. Like, like, it just never ends in terms of the platforms. And so I could totally see, and I sympathize with this overwhelming feeling that we have. So how do you approach content creation? Yes. What, how do you go about it? Especially with the ever changing landscape that we're in. A hundred percent. It, it is always changing and thankfully it is changing. So I have a job, I have a business. That's true. I know we were joking about that beforehand, but the biggest thing I always tell people, there's, there's a handful of things. Number one is always, always, always, this plays into authenticity, plays into helping you with the overwhelm, the fear, the judgment. Play into your strengths. I'm a yapper. Get me on video any day. That is my strength. Some of you might be really amazing writers. Okay, cool. Create a carousel with graphics and a longer caption. Cool. Awesome. If you love more audio, you're like, I love listening to my voice. Okay, cool. Let's do like B roll with audio overlay or something. Show up on these platforms in a way that feels good to you, and then once you feel comfortable doing so, then we can expand and increase your skillset because. As much as I love yapping on video'cause I can just like put up my phone and record for 90 seconds post it and move on with my day. I need to experiment. I need to get creative with some of the other things that maybe I'm not so good at. You can play into that and you can play with that as you go on. My rule of thumb, if you want a formula,'cause everybody loves a good formula, like tell me what to do. I always tell people to pick one short form platform, so in your case, Instagram maybe it's TikTok, maybe it's threads and typically these are algorithm based in nature. Then I want you to pick one long form platform. Now, that doesn't mean you need a YouTube video every other day, or a podcast episode weekly. Start small. It could just be one YouTube video a month, but you need to have that long form. Content because it's gonna show you as an expert, it is searchable and it's gonna help your business in the long run. And then number three, this one is non-negotiable. If you don't listen to anything else I do, you need an email list. So those are the three things that you absolutely need to do and you can throw the rest away. The reason why I say email list is we do not own our audiences on these platforms. They could disappear tomorrow. Your account could get shut down today. Your email list comes with you. Once somebody opts in and subscribes you own their contact information. You have a direct line of communication with potential customers, clients, warm leads, things like that. That's my bent, like my baseline formula. Everything else, I'm gonna be honest, is just noise. You can build such a sustainable business just with those few things. And I'm telling you, it feels a lot less overwhelming when you approach it in that way. I. Yeah, I love that advice. And actually I just got a sense of relief when you said focus on these three things. Everything else is noise. Because yeah, if you're just starting out and you see everyone on all the platforms, you're like, well, then I have to be on all the platforms and I need to have a massive audience in order to be successful. But at least in my experience, that couldn't be further from the truth. So yes, that's really helpful. And I will tell you, speaking from experience, I have larger audiences that I have built over the last six years. It is overwhelming. That part is more overwhelming. I'm like, there are times I'm like, I wish I could go back to having just an audience of 2000. I used to think 2000 was so small, and I'm like, oh my God, what I could do with an audience of 2000. Now there's another level of management expectation delivery. So I'm telling you, the more you grow, the more growing pains come with it. I am telling you, if you could just dial it in, even if you get a hundred followers. If you had a hundred people in a room with you right now, you'd shit your pants like that is a lot of people. That is, I'm telling you, and you can sell to those a hundred people. You only need maybe five to become clients. Like that's insane. The numbers when you think about it is truly insane. But yes, the rest is just noise and more than likely somebody trying to pitch you something or sell you something. Most of the time when you give, when they give that advice, it's normally loaded with something in the backend. Wow, that's actually so helpful. Yes. So you would rather have 2000 followers today rather than your Yes. What, where are you at in terms of your numbers today? I was gonna say across all platforms, I'm close to half a million just because of tiktoks. My largest. Then comes Instagram, X, Y, Z, go down the funnel, email list, things like that. But I'm telling you, I was the most dialed in with my potential customers and clients. When I had less, I was able to have those more genuine conversations. Don't get me wrong, I do my best with my DM management. I really, really do. But I can't get to every comment. It's absolutely impossible. And so sometimes I feel the, you know, I don't get to have that tight-knit community that I once had. So. Freeing, rewarding. Yes. I've worked very hard for all of these things. I have other opportunities, but sometimes you're like, oh, I miss them. So, yeah, it's hard. It's, it's, it's a catch 22. Yeah. That, that's actually such a good reframe and so powerful, even for me. And I think it actually gives me a lot of validation for how I've built my business because I, I, I wouldn't say I have a large audience. I have. A solid one. I don't even know. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. But when you say across the board, I'm like, I actually don't know all of the numbers across the platforms. Let's say 20,000 to Yes. To estimate. But to your point, so you always think of like people that are bigger and better using our quotes with that one quote unquote. But what I've noticed, especially as a coach and from client feedback, that they become more unavailable. Yes. They can't respond to every comment. They can't respond to every dm. They have to appease the masses in a way. Right. And so for me, I am in my dms, I am responding to every comment. Mm-hmm. And I think that that closeness is actually. Undervalued, right? Yes. Like people really want that. And especially like for me, I still offer one-on-one coaching. Yes. Other bigger coaches, they don't have the capacity to offer one-on-one coaching. No. They only have group where you kind of like blend in with the crowd.'cause they have 50, 60 hundreds of people at a time. So I just love, love, love that. And I hope an earlier aspiring coach or online service provider is listening to this right now. Like you have so much power with your quote unquote small audience. Small audience'cause,'cause people want you, they want your expertise, they want your attention. That is such a high value right there. It is. I know. And I'm like, it's so funny because I've been exploring what's next in my career too, in terms of this. And it's like everybody always wants bigger, better. I almost wanna dial it back, and I wanna go back into one-on-one service providing I don't have the time for it right now. I would love to go back into one-on-one coaching strategy sessions. I, I'm one of those, you know, larger creators that I'm like, I don't, I truly couldn't pencil it into my calendar if I wanted to. And I want to open the space to be able to do so again because I, I truly miss that connection. So just know that grass is always greener. Sometimes I look back and I'm like, oh, wish I didn't get so big. And other times I'm like, it has awarded me opportunities that I would've never dreamed of. So again, grass is always greener. Just know your objectives and your goals and things like that, but don't ever Yeah, beat yourself down because you think you have a small audience. I, I promise you, it's bigger than you think. That's so huge and such solid advice for so many people listening, I think that comes up in every single coaching call, whether it's one-on-one or group. So that's huge. Yes. And and to your analogy too, I love that they always say the grass is greener on the other side, but I'm like, the grass is greener where you water it. Ooh, yes. There we go. My drop, put a pin in that. That's, that's going on Instagram. Absolutely. So if like I have 200 people, let's water that. You know what I mean? And they're gonna become loyal and clients and all yeah. So much. Yeah. So I'd love it. Okay, so you said you're a yapper myself as well. Yes. Long form content and email list. What would you say?'cause I've seen also the bigger people online, they do texting now. Mm-hmm. So I run masterclasses and I still use emails to remind people, but people are like, people don't pay attention to emails anymore. Now it's all about texting and phone numbers. What would you say about that? Okay, so I have a hot take. I, this is, and this is one thing, if you're not in the marketing worlds, you might not know this. Email marketing has been the most consistent thing for the last 25 years. Platforms have come and gone. Text messaging used to not be free. People would not open a text message from a random stranger'cause it used to cost them money. Email has always been free. Email is something we check daily, in and out. I think email will always be there for us. Yes. Is it annoying sometimes? Do our inbox inboxes get full? Absolutely. But the thing that I, I want to remind people of email creates depth. Text messaging creates urgency. Both are powerful. But with email specifically, you can do a lot in a very short format. There's more character space, things like that. So the way that I approach using both of those, again, we are delivering emails. Technically long form text messaging is short form. So I think there's power in both. I think for text messaging specifically, it needs to be a reminder. It needs to be something to create a sense of urgency. Doors are closing this, that and the other. If you try and send an inspirational message via text message you're gonna get spammed real quick. People are gonna block, delete, junk report, that kind of thing. You can send inspiration in an email. You can create that community and that value. You're not gonna get that with text messaging, so depends on your goals and what's more important, I don't think one's more important than the other. Email has just been around the longest and I don't think we'll go anywhere. Got it. No, that makes so much sense. I, I was thinking about getting and collecting phone numbers, but to your point, only for urgency, only for masterclass reminders, like, don't miss it. We start in an hour. So that makes a lot of sense. And actually on the client side of joining a masterclass, I really appreciated the text messages'cause I was like, oh yeah, in an hour, let me get set, forgot, set up and ready. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Actually I hate to admit it now, you said we check our email every day, which absolutely I do. However, I haven't, in the last week I have over a thousand unread emails between both inboxes, personal and work. So that's staring at me right now. I need, it happens. And that's okay. And one last thing I wanna say about email and why it's important for your business is. Conversion rates are higher. So meaning if somebody opens your email, clicks through it, the likelihood of them purchasing downloading X, Y, Z is much higher than on social media. And number two, you're not subject to that algorithm. So you could put up an Instagram post today and it could not be relevant tomorrow. Email. I know you said you haven't checked in a week. That email is still in your inbox. You could, you still have the potential to open it without it being subject to some algorithm too. So even the people that don't check every day. Your content is sitting there for them to open. So yeah. Ah, that's such a good or that's such a good point because I have like James Clear, Jenna Kucher, Amy Porterfield, and I genuinely love their emails and I want to read it because it's so informative and helpful. So I'm actually like, waiting until I have a moment to sit down, have my coffee, and go through my email, because I enjoy it. So that's a really good point. Exactly. Okay. You talked a little bit or, or you alluded to like the future of social media. This landscape is ever changing. What, what do you project the, the future of social media? I don't know, five years, 10 years? Or can I even say one year? Because it's happening. So I was gonna say, everything happened so fast. Yeah. So obviously we've seen if you were around, you know, in the 2000 tens. Social media had exponential growth amongst obviously business owners, but then it started trickling down to the public over about 10 years. It still went very, very rapid. In case you're not aware, there is an AI revolution that we are currently in right now that is also growing at an exponential rate about three times faster than social media did though. Wow. And social media is starting to integrate AI tools. So my prediction for social media, we are overwhelmed with the attention span thing. Like where you get on social media overwhelms our nervous system. We can't pay attention. All these things. We're having a lot of negative impacts as human beings consuming content on social media. But we can also recognize there's a duality in that. These social media platforms have given stay at home moms, an income source they have given, you know, it's crazy. Like I watched this one guy on TikTok, I love him, he's a sorority chef and he's paying for his cancer treatments with his TikTok videos. And I'm like, it makes me cry every time. I'm like, he's just showing us recipes, but I'm crying. So there's power in the community aspect and it's starting to become disjointed as they integrate ai. So what I'm gonna predict now is that people are going to start moving offline. So this is where that community building aspect, yes, my audiences are very big, but I'm in the process of building something that I own to get them off of them because my people are so overwhelmed with the consumption and the way that it sucks us in. So people are looking for those personal connections. I don't know if you've noticed this in your industry. I've noticed it in mine. In-person retreats, they are looking for group coaching that's in person you know, like these connection points where we build community with one another, one-to-one again. So I still think social media will be important but I think it's building the personal connections beyond the platform, which is gonna be the most significant. Got it. That's actually also very relieving for me because I love, love, love the, the personal touch, the community. I mean, it's, it's wild. So I find people, of course, on social media, that's how they find me. That's how we connect. But then I invite them to something that I guess I own, right? Yes. So I have the big shift group coaching. I have she EO group coaching, or I have my one-on-one dynamic and yes, it's here, zoom.'cause yes, they're all over the globe, but even just Zoom is much more intimate than a seven to ten second reel dms, whatever, hundred percent. So I guess I am already inviting them into much more of a personalized, intimate space where they feel safe and seen. What about a digital course? How do you feel about that? Because it's self-paced and you don't get that time with the coach or the online service provider. Totally. Would they still make sense in this landscape? So I think, and this is really funny because I've had an online, I've had digital courses out for quite some time, and we're seeing a very big shift in the mentality behind those as well. I think they were very predominant in the pandemic. What else were we doing with our time? We're like, Hey, we need to make some shifts. We need to do this, that, and the other. And then we got course overwhelm, course overload. I personally, I hate to admit this, I have a course graveyard of things I've purchased with the best intentions of watching, and I watched like one or two videos and I'm like, I don't have time anymore. What I predict happening, and this is where I'm gonna shift my digital products as well. There will be a learn at your own pace component For those that enjoy it, you need to have touch points elsewhere though. So for me, my course is called the content system. I'm building a lower ticket community where you can, you know, pop in, say hello, do whatever you need, ask some questions. And then I'm looking into what does it look like for group coaching for one-on-one, for VIP days, for additional support for those people that wanna invest in it, that want the, the, the handholding that want the community. But the digital course game, it's changing and I think it's good to have as almost a discoverability tool. You're teaching people, your foundations, your frameworks, and then they should choose to work with you in some one-on-one capacity. Yeah, I think bold statement, I think people that just sell courses aren't gonna make it much longer. They've gotta have some kind of community component to it for sure. Wow. Okay. And community component. You're talking like, I know school in my industry, yes. I use Kajabi. Yes. But, but somewhere where they can go and like talk amongst each other. Separate from social media. Okay. Yeah. And I'm a Kajabi user too, but it could be as simple as in Instagram broadcast channel. Like if you have that feature. Ah, yes, yes. It could be a Facebook group. It doesn't have to be these crazy complicated communities. It could be a Substack, like Substack is becoming very, very large. And if you're not familiar, it's kind of a social media meets email marketing meets blog kind of platform. But you can charge people. There's one one educator. She's moving out of the course creation space. She allows you to consume her content for free. But if you wanna comment, you gotta pay$5 a month, which I find fascinating. I think it's so cool. Yeah. So it's just engaging people in a unique and different way beyond just digital learning. Got it. Yeah, I I'm not too familiar with school. I just know like Alex Ramzi invested in it. Yes. And some big coaches that I follow, they use it for their communities. Yeah. It's interesting because they have like, so many different videos that you can watch and trainings like a, like a, what's, what do you call it? Vault. Oh. And then, but there's like three that are locked unless you engage and you get like a certain ranking and then those videos are unlocked. And so it incentivizes you to actually be a part of the group, which I find fascinating. And actually, actually really smart because to your point, it's like, okay, you invest and you buy this with all the, the good intentions, but then it's like, it's just another course. Yes. But it's like, well, no, like come back. So you get these other videos, so you get to learn more. Yeah. So I think that's really, really smart. Totally. Talk to me, we're kind of talking about this a little bit, but I. Pivoting and business, because we just talked about the ever-changing landscape and the things that you are changing already. Is there like a level of discomfort you still have when you do make a pivot or you kind of are just like, this is entrepreneurship. It is part of it. Like what's your take on that? Yeah, so I'm at the point the only thing that is constant in my business is change. Like truly the pivoting will always happen and I'm comfortable with that notion, but actually doing it there is always discomfort. And to just give a quick background anecdote throughout my career, and this is something I've been exploring internally that I've started to realize I have a very large pattern. Every two years I make a big pivot, a big change. And typically what happens is I flip the scale on risk taking versus stability. So for me, I find you know, for two years I'll go head in on consistent one-on-one client work retainer work something that builds that sustainable income. The next two years I like take a leap on digital courses or this, that and the other. I take some bigger risks and I flip floop back and forth, and I'm starting to have the revelation of. The bigger business owners that I aspire to be like, they have both. And I said, I, that is my next big thing. And that also might be true in your coaching journey, whoever is listening out here, that you're gonna take those pivots. Sometimes it's gonna be risky, sometimes it's gonna be a little smarter. But know that those pivots will always have to happen in your business, no matter your industry, no matter your niche, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I'm just gonna say that because it is always changing. One day it could be your email service provider changes software changes, an app changes. Or like I experienced vine completely died off. It was an entire social media platform. Threads came out a couple years ago, flipped the switch on so many, I completely had to get rid of my Twitter account because of x, y, z reasons. I'm like, that can upend my industry, my client work. When they introduce reels, now all of a sudden I have to do video content for my clients. And I'm like, oh, no. What am I doing here? Change will always be consistent and it is very uncomfortable when you have to go through it. But I will say the biggest part of entrepreneurship. If you do not pivot, if you do not change, that's when you get left behind. So, yeah, I, it's a very unfortunate truth, but it is also so fun and freeing at the same time. You know what, I, I couldn't agree more in, in my mindset around it now being, what, five years in the game in terms of coaching. Life is a game. Right. And so this business, it's a game. Like you win some, you lose some, but you just keep playing. Like you just keep going. Yep. And that's been a huge mindset shift for me. And I'm like, all right, let's buckle up. I'm down for the challenge. Yeah. Like, what's next? And it's one of those things that I try and spin it in, in a positive way of when I start to feel frustrated, when I feel the pivot coming on, I'm like, I'm leveling up. That's truly what it is. I am personally right now in that level of discomfort of, I don't know what's next, but I know something big is coming and I just gotta sit with it. And sometimes you gotta sit in that messy middle whether it's with your content, whether it's with your business, your service offerings. I don't know what's next for me, but I'm gonna take steps each day to work towards something. Yeah. And just, just wait for the download to happen. Wait for the inspiration to come wait for whatever it is, and I'm gonna be ready for it. Yeah. And that's the only thing I can guide people through is just prepare yourself and just be willing to adapt and change. Totally. It sounds like this. I don't know if it's a quote or where I got it from. I see it on social media all the time, but it's like, I walk in faith, not sight. Yes. And and that's been so true for me.'cause it's like, I don't know what's next, but it's like I'm d Lulu, the vision, like we see it, it's there, it, it's just a matter of like when it actually happens and comes to fruition for me. Yes. In my reality. Right. So, yeah, that's been huge for me. Going back to your work in terms of, I think you mentioned the, the bigger people that you follow and aspire to be like in terms of business, they have stability and risk. Did I hear that right? Okay. Yes. Totally. So, so I think for me and our list, my listeners with coaching it, it's almost like I know one-on-one is, is my bread and butter. That's where you gotta start. That's high ticket. Yes. And then group coaching live launches once, twice a year, whatever I decide to do. Mm-hmm. But then the risk is like, ooh, maybe'cause I am actually. Playing around with a digital course? Yes. That's low ticket.'cause I don't have anything low ticket. Yes. And I don't have anything that's 24 7. So if someone really wants to work with me, but they're like, I don't want thousands of dollars. Yeah. And sorry, you have to get on the wait list.'cause I'm not live launching right now. I have nothing to sell. Yes. And so I feel like I'm missing that component first and, and like, I want it, I, I, sorry, it's on my heart to do. I, I don't have it all together yet. Yeah. So to your points, like I'm waiting for the download Yes. For it to, for that to happen. So I think that's what you're saying, stability and risk. Yes. Like you have to kind of play with the new, you gotta, you play with, but doing what works. Yes. And that's, it kind of goes back to what we said earlier in the episode of my fallback is a nine to five. Think of your business in the same way you always have. Typically most of us where we start in coaching, no matter if you start your business or not, one-on-one service, providing is typically the easiest the quickest route to get the high ticket offers, that kind of thing. You can always, I don't wanna say it's a fallback, but you always have that in your back pocket. And that's the way I look at it. Currently. I'm doing a lot of one-on-one retainer work. Mm-hmm. And it's, it you're trading time for dollars. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. And sometimes you wanna take the risk on things that are. I wanna create this one since sell it a bunch, you know? Yeah. So that's where you gotta play. And I gotta find the balance between the two.'cause I tend to flip flop. I go crazy, flip flopping. Ah, got it. And I'm like, I wanna find the stability in both. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One-on-one has been huge for me. That's literally how I was able to replace my income, lead my job. Yes. So I think I'll always have my one-on-one. Yeah. There's a book that I always recommend to my clients. It's called The Prosperous Coach. It's actually like$50 on Amazon. I don't know why it's so much for a book, but he gives me so much peace of mind that the two authors, they're both men. They start their own coaching companies, but they talk about this idea of like social media and marketing and, and email list. Like yes, that's great, but at the end of the day, it's you and your connections. It's network. Yes. It's word of mouth. It's referrals. Yes. Like that's all you need to be a coach and help someone for the rest of your life. And I'm like, totally. That's so. Relieving to me because everything else is a game and you try shit and the risk involved, but then at, at the end of the day, it's like people know me now. I have a reputation that I'm building. And so it's like, if someone wants help, it's like, you know where to find me. Exactly. And it's, it's, that's the big component that people don't understand. Word of mouth will always be your best friend. Referral based stuff will be your best friend. Yeah. Because social media will collapse eventually. I'm telling you what it's Or at least the way that we know it, it will. Yeah. And I've watched it happen for clients in the past or I've watched. People with 50,000 followers on Instagram make not nearly as much money as the coach who's just calling people, you know? Oh my, my gosh. It's just, it's fascinating to see. Oh my gosh. Yep. See that? That's so powerful too, because a lot of people hide behind, oh, I don't have the followers yet, or The follower count isn't there yet. That's why I am not making money or whatever. And I'm like, bitch, put yourself out there. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Oh my God. Social media aside, leave it. Text your friends, text your family members. Hey, I've got an opening for one-on-one coaching. Do you know anyone who would benefit to get them from A to B? Like that's you putting yourself out there, but we're so afraid of rejection. Yes. And I'm telling you what that is. One of the, the component that I've worked on the most, not only as a marketer, as a business owner, as a content creator, you have to be comfortable with not only the discomfort that we've talked about, but with the rejection. And just know that a no has nothing to do with your self-worth. Listen, if you could just take one thing away from this episode, do you know how many times you have to be told no before you get a yes? Like it is? Yes. Think of it as a numbers game. Like, let's remove the woo woo from it. Let's remove our ourself forth. Literally just think of numbers, you know? Yeah. Like, if that helps you reframe it. That's the way I approach it. I'm like, all right, I need to talk to 10 people. So one of'em will tell me yes. You know? Yes. That's the way I approach it. And if you're a numbers person, I'm much more of a metrics numbers person. So that's how help me remove my worth from it. Yeah, but you just have to get out there and just do it. Yeah. And the, the one thing, I'm gonna go on a little tangent here, please. This is true with business, social media, anything like that, especially'cause I know you speak to a lot of aspiring coaches. You don't need to be the expert in anything. You just need to be one day better than the person you're coaching. I, and I'm like, this is the way I tell people all the time. They're like, I wanna do this, I wanna do that. I said, why? Why don't you talk to you what you needed to hear yesterday and coach that person? Mm-hmm. We don't need to be, you know, we, we think we need the followers, we need the prestige, we need the clout, we need this. And I'm like, no, you just need to tell yourself what you needed to hear six months ago, and those people will find you and then you, then you charge'em for it. Oh, I love the tangent. I, sorry. I go, I do those, I do too. If I go on my, like, group coaching calls, so you can tell they're like, all right Kaia, because I'll just go on and on and on, so, oh, I could do it for days. Exactly. Like I said, three hours here. Yes. Yes. Okay. What you just said about rejection, it's so, so important. The name of the game for one-on-one coaching at least, is consultation calls, right? Like. Like this. Let's talk. Where are you at now? What's not working? Where do you wanna go? If I genuinely feel like I can close that gap for you, cool. Here's my offer. Let's go. Yes. Yep. If they say no, which I've had to be rejected so many times. Oh, yeah. And I will admit, I did take it personal, right? Yes. Like, so much energy was involved. I remember days where I would have a 90 minute consultation call. They say, no, just think 90 minutes of energy, first of all. Mm-hmm. And, and like the, the nerves of it, I guess. And then after they say no, I would literally like, go take a nap. Yes. It, it does take a lot of your energy. I won't lie. Oh my gosh. Bur would walk in, he's like, are you okay? I'm like, I got rejected. But in that process, what I've learned is, oh, it's actually not about me. It's about them. Because it's just like the timing in their life or maybe it truly is financial, whatever. And so it's not a no, it's a not right now. Correct. And that reframe has given me so much peace as well because it's like, this is my offer. Now, of course I have confidence because of my clientele, my roster, my testimonials. But in the beginning you don't have that. And so it's like, that's just the name of the game. Like get rejected, feel the the hurt in that. Feel the pain. Go take a nap afterwards. Yes, but you will get stronger, I promise. It's, it's like a muscle. You have to train. It's like practicing with any other new skill. It sucks at first, but you gotta get the reps in. You can't jump from a five pound weight to 75 pound weight. You're gonna tear a muscle, you know? So same is true for. Rejection, coaching calls, discovery calls, anything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So huge. Okay, so I wanna pivot here a little bit in our conversation, because you just talked about I am a numbers girl, metrics you know, take the WOOWOO out of it, like work numbers, like that kind of thing. Yeah. And I would argue that a lot of that is masculine focused, right? Yes. Like, build the business, focus on the numbers, get your reps in 10 consultation calls, get one. Yes. Like, just do the fucking work, right? Yes. Which absolutely is so important. That's how I've gotten here today. The, the, mm, how do I say this? I guess the flip side of that and what I hear a lot, because I only work with women across the board. Yes. They want the feminine approach. So they're like, Kaia, I'm just gonna dream and I'm just gonna visualize and I am gonna lean heavy into the woowoo. Yes. And that's going to give the results. And I'm like, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's fun. But what I've learned, at least. And, and I don't even like the word balance, but, but it's like, you gotta, you gotta work. Yes. And then almost like get lucky, right? Yes. Like I have to still market, I have to put myself out there. Yes. I have to outreach, I have to send the DM if and when someone responds. Okay, cool. That's the woowoo, that's Yes. The universe. Absolutely. What would you say to, to that dynamic that this masculine and this feminine approach like. I don't know. It might be triggering for people. So let's go. No, I was gonna say let's, and my approach is very, very similar and I also don't wanna use the word balance.'cause then we immediately think I gotta have 50% of this and 50% of that. For me, I think in, in seasons, just like we have seasons you know, winters typically rest you know, summers typically like go, go, go. So I want you to think of your business in seasons as well. Typically speaking, you know, obviously there's always these cases when you first start, you are gonna have a little bit more masculine energy. You just have to, you have to, it, it is the numbers, it is the hard, it's the selling, it's the, this, that and the other. There is a little bit more hustle. And as much as we love the entrepreneurs who are. Sitting in the soft life in more of the feminine energy. It took them a long time to get there. Sometimes we gotta paint the whole picture. And I still love all my entrepreneur girlies who are promoting that because yes, we do get to enjoy balance and softness and femininity in our businesses. There's sometimes a season for hustle that's a little bit more masculine. So for me, again, I know when it's ebbs and flows, sometimes I'm 70% masculine, 30% feminine. And there are other times when I'm going through hardship or things in my life, I'm like, I need to lean back into my feminine and just let the universe skiff. So just know that it's okay and it's never always gonna be perfect and just know that balance probably won't ever happen. But just think of it more in terms of seasonally. But yeah, I love this conversation. Uh uh, so much to say. Yes. We might go over, are you okay? Like 15? Absolutely, yes. Totally. Such a good conversation. So, I hustled my ass off to get to where I'm at today. Yes. No lie all day, every day. Sending hundreds of dms at a time. Yes. Posting every single day. Having the consultation calls back to back to back. Getting rejected, taking the nap afterwards. Like I've done the work. Yep. However, now me being a mom, so it's a little different'cause yes, I'm only five months postpartum, but I was forced to stop, right? Yes. I had to give birth. Yeah, that's very important. I was in the hospital for 48 hours and then of course afterwards you're kind of like in a vortex, like time reality is not real. That was my December and then January I did like ease back into it'cause I launched the big shift, but still like time just wasn't the same anymore. Still isn't, because obviously I have a newborn and there's Yes. Breastfeeding and nap and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's interesting when I reflect back on this hustle version of Katya, I, I still believe hustle is required. Hence why I'm still working here today. Yes. And I'm not like drawing out the mat leave and all that stuff. But I feel like if I was truly honest with myself and accountable for just my weakness. Yeah. Weaknesses, I paired hustle with time. Yes. So when I thought I got a hustle, it was around the clock, 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM like, that's all I did. I sacrificed, you know, friendships. I, I would say no to outings. Like I just didn't do anything but work. Yes. What would you say with this hustle, do the work idea, but then also this idea of time? Yes. Or, or do you think it is time? What are your thoughts on that? I think culturally we do associate the two of time masculine hustle, this, that and the other. Dah, dah, dah. Do this. I, I agree with you. Looking back on it, it's. Sacrifice. It's not necessarily time. Sometimes time is the sacrifice, but what are you willing to give up in the short term for the hustle? So for me, what that looked like, I gave up my weekends. I did do, you know, I gave up the time when I was side hustling, but then when I shifted into entrepreneurship, I actually freed up a lot of time, like full-time. I freed up my time, I sacrificed money, stability. You sacrifice a 401k and health insurance and these other things. So for me, the hustle is sacrificing something. I am now in a season of business where generating the income, my masculine, my, my hustle, my sacrifice is I'm pouring more back into myself financially in terms of I am, you know, investing in the course. I'm investing in the coach, I'm investing in this team support. Could I just put that money in my pocket and sit back in my feminine and not work anymore? Yes. But for me, I'm like, no, no, no. I'm in a season of I wanna pour back into it. I gotta hustle a little bit more, I gotta give up a little bit more monetarily. So for me, I, I agree with you. Looking back, I'm like, I equate it more to sacrifice than just the time aspect. I really like that take. I've never heard the, the sacrifice piece. Mm-hmm. In terms of masculine work. Yes. So I really, really like that. Yeah. I yeah, for me and I guess to give more context, so my time is limited now, so it's actually forced me to evolve, right? Yes. This is not me like complaining woe is me. It's actually been better for me as a business owner because I reflect and I realize, whoa, I. Paired it with time. And so now, like this morning, I post on all platforms. Yes. I, I just repurposed one video. TikTok Instagram, YouTube shorts done. Yep. And then I responded to dms and I responded to comments. That took me 30 minutes. Yep. And that was with Amalia on her play Mat wrote Rolling around. Great. Cool. I love it. Yes. And now I'm sitting here on a podcast interview with you, but after this, I have white space in my day. Yes. But I got the non-negotiables done. I got the things that move the needle in my business. Done. Yep. And so am I hustling. I don't know, but it's like I'm taking inspired action. Yes. Right. So with my masculine, but also the feminine allowing, you know, if someone is inbound and the space Yes. And, and like the creativity that I get to tap into and mm-hmm. The, the deeper, more meaningful conversations I get to have in the DM dynamic versus just like, ha ha, ha, emoji. Yes. Right? You're like, yep, there we go. Like, just to say I responded because you're exactly, you're one of 50. But I guess this goes also back to the smaller audience. Like I get to sit there and read and actually thoughtfully respond. Mm-hmm. And maybe even share some value in that way, you know, even if they don't become a client. But now I've left an impression, so I think it's like, now I'm going on a tangent. I love it. I think, I think it's being more, for me at least, more mindful and intentional. Yes. When I work, so I'm not just working to work anymore, like a badge of honor kind of thing. It's more of like, what the fuck am I doing in the next hour? Yes. How is it helping and how is it moving the needle in my business? Because if it's not, I'm not doing it. Totally, and I would, I would even reframe that as that is your sacrifice. You have acknowledged I don't have time for all this crazy fru, whatever I was doing in my business three years ago where you get to like play around and like, oh, let me try out a new software, a new platform, a new this. You said, I don't have time. It's not moving the needle forward. So that's, I would argue that's the sacrifice you're making and there's nothing wrong with that. And that, just acknowledging you're in a different season. You said, I'm doing my non-negotiables right now. Your email might be the sacrifice. Like who knows? You know? Yeah. So it's just like picking and choosing, but you're, you're choosing the efficiency and the moving the needle forward and that's the, the masculine energy while allowing, like you said, that white space, that freedom, that creativity, again, there's that the season. And not necessarily the balance. Totally. Which is totally fine and it's gonna ebb and flow. Yeah. But yeah, I love it. Yeah. No, I love that. And I love the season because yeah. To your point, I'm at capacity with my one-on-one clients. Yes. Which I'm very happy and proud to say that, but that doesn't mean, so that means I don't need to do heavy outreach, for example. Yes. Or the referral or whatever. So that season in my business is, is over until, let's say renewals come up or whatever. Then it's like, okay, gotta go heavier on the outreach. So there is that season seasonality to it. Yeah. Okay, so we're talking about masculine and fem feminine. And the reason why when I reflect back again, pre motherhood in terms of time equals money versus like value equals money. That was my reframe recently. Yes, I reflect on that younger version of Kaia and I'm like, where did she learn all this from? Well, okay, it's baked in society. It's in our patriarchy. It's, you know, love them and I. They're some of my biggest mentors, but at my tech company and my first business coach, they have been men. Yes. And so they teach me this idea of like, hustle, hustle, hustle, get an early leave late, like skip the lunch break, like just do whatever you gotta do. Mm-hmm. W and then I feel like that's dominated and still does our industry. I know we're a little different industries, but still we work for ourselves adjacent. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So what would you say like, like how as a female do we navigate the, this industry and, and believe that we can still build a business that's successful on our terms while, while being? Mm. While we honor Yes. Our feminine energy.'cause it is different. Absolutely. We operate differently. We do. And I was gonna say, I, I'll bring it back down to science a little bit. And this is something that I've been reading more and studying at more on you know, specifically with men. And the way society has created it is based on their hormone cycle of 24 hours. They have a 24 hour hormone cycle. And not to get too bio biological here, but women, ours is a 28 day cycle. They are the sun. We are the boon. And we have to acknowledge that we cannot. We actually cannot work in the same way that they do. It is biologically rooted in us that it does not work that way. Obviously I want to acknowledge that there are additional genders other than male and female, but biologically speaking, let's just keep the two. So what I have done and honored, again, it's that seasonality of, I know there's one week outta the month where I am a curmudgeon. I don't book calls that week. There is one week a month that I said, do not talk to me. I'm gonna sit down and do admin work. I'm gonna do backend tasks that I've been neglecting. Then there's another week of I am so creative, I'm so ready to go. I'm ready to birth new things. That's the week I sit down and I batch to record my YouTube videos. I focus on curriculum, course creation, things like that. There's another week where I start to slow down. I'm like, okay, maybe I can do a little bit of coaching calls. A little bit of this, I can do maybe more of the client work. And, and that cycle continues to repeat itself. So I want to acknowledge the seasonality of just the way that we work and the way that we achieve things in business. And we need to, and I, I'm hoping we start to see the industry shifts in this. Which I think we are, we are acknowledging those things as a, as a powerhouse. Like it's not just this thing that we have to hustle all the time, 24 7, blah, blah, blah, 3, 6, 5. And I'm like, no, we actually do get to sit in our feminine energy and we just create differently. Men go through it 24 hours a day, we go through it 28 days, you know? Yeah. So just acknowledging that in and of itself, I have found freeing because there will be weeks, so I'm like, I just don't have it in me to work hard. And I'm like, now I know why, like I've studied, right? Like obviously we, we innately know that about ourselves, but, you know, it's, it's nice to acknowledge that and that we can still grow the business in that way. Just know that there's a week of hustle, there's a week of rest, there's a week of this, that, and the other. So. Tangent. Hopefully it's related. Let's do follow up. I love the biological perspective. I think it's spot on. Yes. Do you also do cycle syncing? Just outta curiosity? I try to as much as I can. Okay. It's not a perfect practice by any means, but yes, I acknowledge that all of my client calls I have aligned with my, I don't remember all the names. Probably my my ovulation. That's when I tend, I tend to have the most energy. Got it. So I try and correlate it. I do not do it on the week of my period. I do not, do not book me for a call. It is not happening. No, I, I, I just ask outta curiosity.'cause I did it before pregnancy and now my cycles are actually still like figuring it out. I, I haven't gotten back to normal. Yeah. But I remember like the luteal phase and the menstrual phase, like. I remember that too with my energy dipping and stuff. And so I really wanna get back on that schedule.'cause yes, I think mentally that also helps knowing like, yes, okay, this is that week where I, you know, I'm menstruating, so yes, I'm not gonna do anything. Let me stay at home. Let me not be so social. And I think mentally it's like you give yourself permission. Mm-hmm. So you're not really like stuck in this, oh no, I'm not working, or Oh no, I have guilt. Yes. Yes. And I think helps you so many women do that. It helps avoid the guilt and the shame that typically comes along with it. And again, when we look back at, even when I was corporate America, that corporate structure, they don't give a shit. They really don't. They really couldn't care. And I think that's what's beautiful about building your business is that you do get to have the freedom to choose. In my ovulation phase, I could work 12 hours a day and not even think about it. And it's one of those things where I was like, oh, you shouldn't know where work. I said, that didn't feel like work that day. Yeah, it truly is. 12 hours didn't feel like it. In my menstrual face, I'm like, I'm lucky if I can sit at my computer for three or four hours. Yeah. And I just honor that and I'm like, that's the way that works for me, and things like that. Mm-hmm. Whereas it's just different for, for men. Yeah. Totally. No, it, it's, it's so good. And I think hopefully it just gives women listening to this a lot of relief, but clarity and, and just like, validation in terms of how they feel. Especially if you are building a business of your own. I think it's really important to hear and have this conversation. Totally. One more question before I give you my final one.'cause Yes, I know we're over here. That's okay. I love it. How, how do you feel like, so I guess more broad and, and zooming out a little bit with the industries that we're in, I do still feel like it's dominated by men and this masculine energy. And so as a female, how are you like. How are you standing out? How are you like, no, like, listen to me. How are you know what I mean? Yes. And, and, and I, I mean, I love men of course, but it's, it's just like a difference in terms of the advice we give. Yes. Or again, now me as a mom, like that's so different. So I don't know. How are you navigating that? So I will say, and I'm speaking in terms of the marketing industry as a whole. Yes. A couple little bit of background and then we'll get into my perspective on it. It is actually dominated by women. It is a heavily women well, a lot of people in marketing are women. The loudest and the most known are men though. And that's the thing. They don't occupy as much space percentage wise, wise as us. They're making the most money. They, it's crazy. I saw, I read an article the other day. They're like, of the top 10 YouTube content creators. Vast majority of them are men out earning the women. But then you look at the numbers of women that are actually content creators, YouTube content, it, they outnumber the men exponentially. So it's just one of those things that that's number one. Number two, typically in my industry, men are seen as marketing gurus, marketing experts, marketing this. We're CEOs and consultants. Women are labeled as influencers. Women are labeled as, oh, you don't have a real job. And so we, we are doing the exact same work. Most women I know are doing a higher output said work than men are. We typically get paid less for brand collaborations. We don't get as many opportunities. There are even stages. Like when I go to speak on a stage now I ask for diversity not only in ethnicity and race, but also do you have women up there? And it's crazy because I'm like, I know so many talented women in my industry. Why is this panel made up of eight white men? And I'm like, listen, again, don't, don't I hate you guys, but also what is happening here? Like you're not representative of the industry. So those two things hand in hand really shape how I show up online knowing that, and a lot of these men lead with that masculine energy of this is the right way, this is the only way, this is the blah, blah, blah. And then I show up differently of here's the way that I approach things. Take it or leave it. You can implement some of what I say. Cool. If it helps you a little bit here. Awesome. I know though, and I show this in my content that I'm like, I am only one way of doing content creation. I'm only one expert in this field. I approach it in x, y, Z area. And, and I always, I kind of started the episode with it. I approach it with a systems, an organization and this, that, and the other, other women in my field. They're like, I am so great at video editing. I know how to create the best real ever. And just leading with the, the thought of this is what I'm an expert in, take it or leave it. And then also showing up authentically as myself. And then also the last one, which I don't find a lot of men do, but women are very, very good at in my industry, is leading with your values. So everybody's value set is different. Personally, I'm a little bit more outspoken in political events, co current events, things like that. I like to use my platform for those things. I also lead with you know, I'm here to be of service to people should you want to work with me or pay me more. Cool. If you don't, great. Here's a free resource, which really connects with people. So leading with your values as well really helps me stand out. And then calling out shit that I think is ridiculous. I'm like, if I see bro marketing spammy, like this gross stuff, I will call you out. If you're a troll, if you, I literally had one creator in the industry straight up steal my content and monetize it on his channel. I called him out online, I reported it for copyright infringement and he tried to message me. I said, I blocked him right away. I was like, I'm not playing this game. So listen, I, I get, I get like mama bear claws on my content sometimes. So just those few things help me stand out and I think will help the industry moving forward. For sure. I know, gosh, so much there. My blood is boiling right now actually, because those, those metrics that you just gave or, or those numbers in terms of men are getting paid more and I. There's still like dominating the space even though there's more women working and marketing, at least in your, in your industry. Yep. I, I think the first thing that came up for me is because men have also been shaped to speak what's on their mind, and they have permission to speak loudly with conviction, with confidence. They don't care if they interrupt someone like it's them. And then women, I think, at least in my experience, it's more of like, be quiet. Yes. Listen. Don't talk so loud. Don't take up space. Yes. And that was something that I really had to rewire for myself. There were so many limitations in that way of thinking, and then I thought I had to become a bitch in order to Oh yeah, be successful. Like, well then I gotta talk like a man and I gotta do this and I gotta do that. Yep. And it's like, well no, that, that doesn't feel like an integrity with me and who I am in my core. So it's really interesting how you said lead with values because I'm still gonna show up as me, but maybe like be a bit more confident in the space that I'm taking and be okay with the trolls. Be okay with the haters. Be okay with that and lovingly call them out. Or not even loving lovingly, just call them the fuck out sometimes. Sometimes it's not lovingly, let's be honest, there's, there's this woman I follow, I think I sent you her profile. Her name's Shelby Sap and she's like number one in sales. She has her own academy. She's just like, at least in terms of like online, she appears like such a badass. And she actually talks about it being her alter ego. She's like, I am feminine and I have that part of me, but online and like business, I'm like this go-getter. I have this fire in my belly. And so that's the version you see, it's my alter ego, but I'm not like that 24 7, nor do I have to be right. And I really love that. But she just, I think the other day she talked about oh, what was it? She was like. I'm highlighting my haters or, or like calling out my haters. And then she actually took screenshots and photos of the, the message, the comment, and then their face. I love that. I love that. And oh my gosh, I think it went uber viral.'cause all these women are like, oh my god. Yeah, call them out. But it was like, she had no shame. She was like, okay, you're gonna come over here and troll and leave these hateful comments. Well, I'm gonna put you on blast then. You're in my space and I deserve to be here. Yes. There was something about that that was so powerful. I love that. And that's, that's my approach to it too. I know that's always not everybody's favorite to poach to trolls. You can totally just block and delete. But that's how I am. I'm like, if you're gonna leave something stupid, I am making a piece of content out of it. And I'm like, either I'm making fun of you. We're gonna have a little Kiki, a little laugh, a little joke. We're doing something with this though, because Yeah. I, you know, it's just ridiculous. Half the time people get on the internet and think they're, you know, they can just go in and be a bully. And I'm like, we're not gonna do that. Yeah. I, I literally am experiencing that right now and I. Talking to Bert last night, like, do I respond to this? Like how much energy am I giving to this? Because on TikTok I talked about a thought of what if becoming a mom is actually the greatest thing ever? And and that's true of my experience because now I am a mom five months postpartum and it has upleveled me in so many ways and I have a newfound confidence in like, get outta my way.'cause I'm doing this kind of energy. Yeah, trying to love and, and that's what I was trying to say with this. What if thought? But it's so interesting how people take it from their perspective, right? Like, this girl keeps going back and forth of like, well now you're putting the child's life at risk. And I'm like, what? I'm talking about my confidence as a woman, as a mom. Why are we talking about the child's life at risk here? So it's really interesting and I get heated over it, but then it's like, okay, do I keep going back and forth with this girl? Or like at the end of the day, like where does the conversation stop? Yes. And that's where you just have to figure out what energetically makes sense for you. There are times when I'm like, literally, I will block delete, don't care.'cause I'm like, I energetically know this person's not gonna listen. It seems maybe she might be receptive and it might be a great segue into a podcast episode, a great piece of content. Use that comment and promote your shit. Like, I will do that all the time. I'll be like. She don't get it. But here you guys can go listen to this episode. You know, something like that. That's actually a really good point. Like, using it in different ways to highlight Yeah. Oh, exactly. That's cool. I didn't think about that. Or you say, Hey listen, bestie, I'm, I'm available for one-on-one coaching. Sounds like you've got some mindset issues. We need to work together and literally flip the script on them sometimes and they'll shut up. I'll give you all the reframes. Here's a free coaching call. Thank you. Say, here's a free resource. It sounds like you need to work on this. Yeah, I love it. Yes. Okay, so I recently started ending my podcast episodes with one question I wanna start asking every guest. It's very simple. The title of this podcast is building her, so I just wanna hear. How are you building your version of her? Like what does that mean to you and how are you building her? Oh, I love this question. So for me, when I first started my business, I kind of already alluded to this. It was the be professional, stay in your lane, do what everybody else is doing, and that's how you'll find success. And for me, when I have finally, you know, now that I'm approaching mid thirties, I'm like, I'm gonna be unapologetically myself. I don't know. Every part of her yet. I don't know what she likes. I don't know all her works yet, but I'm gonna show up and just be her. And with the knowledge of I can change my outlook, I can change who I am, I can, I, you know, lately it's been, I've been experimenting with my clothes more, like leaning back into my teenage days wearing band T-shirts and converse. And I'm like, that makes me feel good in the moment. Cool. I'll share it with my audience and start to build that in my business and just know that I can be who I want to be and I can change that person whenever I want to change that person and just show up in the way that I wanna show up. And that's been freeing and also rewarding. Not that we should always wanna be rewarded for that, but let me tell you what, it has brought me more opportunities the more that I open my doors to that kind of thing. So, yes, that's kinda my answer there. That is the best answer. Yay ever. I just feel that in my bones. Yes, because, sorry to talk about motherhood again. Oh no, I love it. It's so real in terms of just this experience that I'm having now and all these like revelations of this new version of me, I'm not the old version of Kati anymore. A lot of moms talk about this rebirth that happens and I truly feel like you just mentioned this unapologetically showing up as me, if I wanna change, I change. If I wanna stop, I stop. If I wanna do something else, I do something else. If I wanna wear this, I'm gonna wear this. Like, don't get in my way. Yes, exactly. Yes. And I, I think I'm so done playing small, whether or not I believed I was, there's always another level. There's always another thing to say. There's always more conviction and confidence you can have in your voice, and I, I just really feel that in my core. So I just love this unapologetic version of you that you are building. So yes. I support and sharing it with the internet, which is crazy. Yes. You're like, come on everyone. I was like, I was like, I'm ready. Oh, I love it so much. This was such a good e like honestly, hands down amber. This was probably the best interview I've ever done. Like I was so much, so good. I was like, I could keep going for another hour. We need to do multiple, multiple rounds. This is like, this is gonna be a series you guys, this is like part one. Okay. I love it. I'm so here for it.'cause I could talk, anything we talk about today, I could go on tangents for days, a hundred percent. Like literally one topic and just go in. So yeah, I could, I could. I love you so much. Where can people find you? What are we, if people wanna get more into your space, so what could they get from you? I'll leave all the links in the show notes below. Absolutely. I am on vast majority of social platforms. I do show up in a lot of different places, so pick your, pick your poison if you will. The only place I do not do is Twitter or X. That is too toxic of a platform for me. I said no thank you. But the best place, if you are looking for true, genuine help where you can connect with me one-on-one is gonna be Instagram. That's my main bread and butter. Again, I do, comments are no hard for me, but dms, I really do try and answer as many as I can. And then I do have some free resources that we will link in the show notes if you guys want to grab some of those. But yeah, other than that, find me anywhere. Amber Filo, F-I-G-L-O-W. Yay. Beautiful. You have so many resources and I know so many people are going to get so much out of this. I I'm even going to listen it, you know, on repeat. So this was so good. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for taking the time. I love you. And we will definitely schedule a part two. I was gonna say we need one. Alright, thank you. Bye.