Building HER with Katja Lillian

Coaching Programs vs. Free Content: What Actually Moves the Needle w/ Amber Figlow

• Katja Thacker

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In today's episode, I am joined (again!) by Amber Figlow...

As a Content Strategist, Creator, and Speaker, Amber Figlow cuts through marketing noise to deliver strategies that drive real results. With over a decade of experience—from side hustler to Fortune 500 consultant to entrepreneur—she helps small business owners create sustainable content systems without the overwhelm. Acting as an experienced guide in content marketing, she shows proven shortcuts while maintaining authenticity. Through her 1:1 services, memberships, and digital products, she has helped hundreds of business owners build content strategies that work for them, not against them. Instead of chasing trends, she shows clients how to create authentic content that attracts the right people and lets them focus on what they truly love about their business.

We discuss the following:

  • Amber admits that the follower era is DEAD
  • She reveals what her content strategy would be in today's landscape
  • Her take on the importance of an aesthetic grid or not
  • The power of investing
  • A podcast exclusive! of what she's working on

& so much more!

Missed our first conversation? Catch Part 1 HERE !

Other places you can find her:

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Building Her podcast. I'm your host, Kaia Lillian. If you've been loving this podcast, go ahead and rate the podcast five stars and DM me on Instagram when you do that because I want to connect and personally thank you if you are new here. Hit that subscribe button. It really helps the podcast grow, and that way you will never miss an episode. So let's get into this week's episode where I am joined by Amber Filo. This is the second time I have Amber on the show, so I won't do the formal introduction because you can catch that in the first one, and it's linked in the show notes below. In our conversation today, Amber admits that. The follower era is dead. She reveals what her content strategy would be in today's landscape, her take on the importance of an aesthetic grid, or not, the power of investing, and a podcast exclusive of what she's working on, and so much more. You guys are in for a real treat today. So without further ado, let's get to the episode. Hey, my name is Kati Lillian, and I am obsessed with all things mindset, personal development, and helping you build the best version of yourself. I'm a women's life and mindset coach and an entrepreneur who started a fun hobby of posting hashtag sweaty selfies, grew a successful side hustle, and now I run a six figure coaching business. I teach you the secret of building a life that aligns with your deepest values and one that you wake up excited for. This podcast is designed to expand your mind and. Challenge the status quo. So get ready to uplevel your life and let's start building her.

Audio Only - All Participants:

Amber Filo, welcome back to the building her podcast. I am so excited to have you here, and I do have to say you are my first second guest that I've ever had on the podcast, so yay. That's compliments to you. I was like, we love a good record breaker. No, but really, I'm just so honored that you're show, you're showing up here again on the podcast. And I have to say, also, everyone loved our first episode together, and I know we just yapped for an hour and a half almost. So I was like, let's just continue let, let's give people what they want. So welcome back. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And we're gonna get into all the juiciness again today. Yes, yes. I, I say we just dive in because for those listening, if you don't know who Amber is, I do have another podcast episode with her. So I'll link that in the show notes below and you'll hear her introduction and who she is and what she's all about. So you guys can check that out. But we won't dive into the weeds on this episode. I just wanna jump right into your expertise, your bread and butter, which is social media. So love it or hate it, social media, just, it has to be a part of your business plan in today's day and age. And a lot of the women that I work with, both in my group setting, CEO, or in a one-on-one capacity. It's always this love or hate relationship, right? And it's always the same questions. Do followers matter? My followers aren't growing. What do I post? When do I post it? It's just very, very social media heavy, rightfully so. So I wanted to pick your brain a little bit since you're the expert, so then we can hopefully answer all those questions that people have. Cool. I was gonna say, I'm so ready'cause I've got the juiciness that you guys are waiting for too. Yay. Love it. Love it. Okay, so I saw, maybe it was an article or something online, I don't remember, but they said the follower era is dead. What do you feel about that? What is your stance, what is your opinion on just followers in general across all platforms? Yes. So the reason why a lot of people have felt like followers have mattered for a long time since the beginning of social media, let's just be real is that a lot of people quantify followers with dollars. Meaning the more followers I have, the more people I'm talking to, potentially the more customers and money this will generate for me. So it's always been a very, very big thing. Like I wanna have a large audience because, and this is where we can get really nerdy, we can talk about conversion rates, which is just a fancy way of saying, let's say I have a hundred people. Two of them decide to buy from me. That's a 2% conversion. So the more people you have, a lot of people tend to think the more money they can make. So that has been the focus of social media marketing for, I would argue the last 10 to 15 years. The reason why we are starting to see a shift is TikTok, over the last five years, really pushed through the water of social media and the way that it operates with the the for you page, which is an algorithm based content is fed to you based on interest, not by people you follow. And a lot of these other social media marketing platforms are following suit. That's why we're getting like suggested content on Instagram. YouTube operates the same way. If you go to your home screen or you see the suggested videos. So the reason why people are saying the follower is dead is more so that we are more interested in reach, in having you reach more people because of this algorithm based content. And that a lot of the times, I know I'm guilty of this. I will see somebody on my for you page come up three times. I'm like, I love their content and I never hit the follow button. I, you know, it's one of those, it's just becoming a natural way of us consuming content, and that's why a lot of people are saying the follower account is dead. So that's where that comes from. Got it. That's okay. So that makes so much sense. And I'm scrambling writing notes over here as you talk. So you said basically how it used to operate was more followers equates to more money. That was the assumption for the last 10, 15 years. But now because of the algorithm changes based off of TikTok and then also the ai I would say because like Gary VI watched a video of his this morning and he was talking about. AI is literally capturing every word that you're saying and the, the captions that you write and it already knows. Okay. Let's say you're talking about Ireland and coffee, it's going to target people in Ireland who like drinking coffee. Yes. Like it's that exact now versus just like showing your followers stuff about Ireland and coffee, but they're like, I don't really give a shit about this. Right. Correct. So that's probably the, the change too. So it's less focused on followers, but more so just people in general. They don't have to be following you. They AI knows they like this type of subject. Right? Absolutely. And which, what you're kind of mentioning and that we can always shift gears into this is like, that's technically an SEO if you guys are familiar with search engine optimization, that is a very traditional marketing practice. We are just now bringing social media and AI into the conversation. So it's very interesting and it's basically just a way of targeting somebody. Based on their specific needs and potentially delivering your content as the solution. So again, that's why the reach matters over the follower. That person might not buy from you ever again. If we take the Ireland and coffee example, maybe they're visiting Ireland for a very specific time and they know they wanna get coffee in the morning after they leave their hotel. They are not gonna go follow the coffee shop, but guess what? They just converted and made a sale because of the content they're creating. So you have to start thinking about it in that aspect too. Hmm. Okay, well then I have so many other questions. It could go in so many different ways. Oh my gosh. People get comfortable. Yes. I guess, I guess my number one question is then how do you increase and expand your reach in today's day and age? Yes. So right now we're seeing a divide in two very different ways, and I find it very interesting and I am personally creating content for both, and that's what I would recommend to coaches, service providers, anything like that. We have something which Katya you are so good at is like this nurture, attention grabbing content that makes you resonate with your story, with your person, what you offer. That's the community building aspect, really dialing into people's pain points, what they need, how can you connect with them as a human being that is important. And even though I know we just said followers are dead, but that is what would grow your following and your cult-like community, potentially convert people into customers. And then in the other aspect, to get more reach, you need to target what people are searching. Because a lot of the times, especially I am a mid-tier millennial, but like let's talk about Gen Z and just the culture of search in general. Younger people tend to not go to Google for stuff. They're either going to chat GPT or they're going to TikTok or Instagram. They're like. Local coffee shops near me that used to be a Google search. Now that is a quick search on TikTok, so you need to be making sure that your content is popping up where people are looking for it as well. So those are the two different facets and it is important to create both. Hmm. Thank you, first of all for giving me the compliment Yes. That I'm so good at nurturing my audience. Yes, you really are. The resonating content hits so hard and it's so good. Oh, yay. It's so funny that you mention that though, because, okay, so first of all, admittedly, I would say I am the worst at social media in terms of like, in, in terms of like the strategy and how you just mentioned SEO, I mean, you guys, I've been on social media for how long? Probably nearly a decade, because I started with like health and wellness and sharing my journey. Yep. And that feels so like authentic and genuine to me. It's just so easy to document my life. Like that's truly what I've done over the last decade. But my followers haven't grown. Like I, like I missed the boat with the follow, with the follower growth because I never thought of like, Ooh, I need to, you know, make sure I'm searchable and people resonate and new people that don't know Katya. Get value from her content. I was all about nurturing Yes. Community. So, so it's helpful to hear that you do need to have a nice balance of both. So nurture the existing audience. Yep. But then also tap into new markets, new people, and hopefully either get a follow or if you are selling something, convert them. Absolutely. Okay, cool. Yeah. What would you say, so since there is this changing landscape, I guess you could even argue already changed with Instagram, I still get the question a lot from my clients. The importance of the. Aesthetic grid. Okay. I guess more so on Instagram.'cause TikTok, I don't think anyone cares YouTube shorts. I don't think you can even upload a cover. So what would you say with the aesthetics and the grid for Instagram? Yes. So for me, and this is very, you're gonna get a lot of opinions out there. And then what I have noticed for myself, for my clients, like. I'm day in and day out and I'm observing a lot of things and I have a lot of different touch points and I could get nerdy on the data. What matters more over aesthetics is consistency. And what I mean by this, you can be creating content directly in Instagram, using Instagram text, Instagram based stuff. It's not always gonna be quote unquote the most aesthetic, but if you use the same fonts, the same colors the same. For me, I love using the same background. I'm in similar outfits because what you want is what's more important than aesthetics is that people can recognize your content immediately. That's what's more important over like this really perfectly curated Instagram feed. And the other thing we're starting to notice too, this is something that I would say has come up in the last year with the introduction of ai. Agency type of stuff, the Gary Vs of the world. We get this picture perfect curated feed and it doesn't feel human. So especially as a service provider and a coach, if you are working one-on-one with people, they need to feel the humanity in your brand. So I always err on the side of show up like a human and not this perfectly aesthetically pleasing brand. So I do a little bit of both. I have a really cohesive and co coherent and consistent brand that I spent a lot of money on. I worked with a designer, but my website looks fantastic. Not every piece of content I put out on Instagram is perfectly curated, but I have my signature yellow, I have my signature curls, I have my signature background. I include my dogs. Like people have come to know that if they even see my content for 0.2 seconds, they know it's me. And that's what's most important. Hmm. Such good points. I ha I heard consistency over aesthetics. Yes. Which really helps the brand identity. Should you be using the same font, the same colors, the same background, that kind of thing? Yeah. And you make a good point also with the human piece over brand. Like, like who is the human amber behind her brand? That makes me think, so I have two group programs that I've launched in the past, the Big Shift, and she EO and that is very branded. So I also worked with a photographer to get the photos. I worked with a graphic designer for the font and the sales page, like all of that was outsourced and paid because my, my brain doesn't work that way. Yep. And I think it worked at that time. I mean, I launched, it was a live launch, open and closed doors. But I think to your point, it's different now because. That's more nurtured audience members. Yes. They know, oh, okay, the big shift is coming back spring, fall. Maybe I'm not gonna do it this round, but maybe I'll do it next round. Or same with CEO. That's also a live launch model. But again, it's very curated and so I'm almost thinking like, I don't even think the Canva templates, the photo shoot even. Matters because people want to just see me. Yes. Maybe talk about CEO and like gain that interest. Would you agree? Yes. And I still think there, I will say there is an importance for very well curated imagery, fonts, things like that for a sales page. I don't think that era has left entirely. But the content that you're putting out during your live launch or during your promotions, during your sales, whatever, you guys, whoever's listening when we make the shift and it feels so strange, and this is what I think is leaving, we are creating all this content on our phones, go, go, go, taking selfies, this, that and the other, and then all of a sudden we get into sales mode and we shift the aesthetic. It's jarring to people. And I'm like, so that's where I think we can le. Leave some of the Canva templates behind, leave some of the branded photography behind. Use it for your sales page, use it for your emails, use it for any other professional branded touch, that's perfect. But for social, why do we make that drastic shift? So often we, and a lot of the times, and this is where we can get into the mindset issue of it, you think you have to be professional to sell. And a lot of the times it is so much better for you to show up in your PJs and talk about CEO or talk about your coaching program because that's how you're gonna show up for them. That's who you are. And to put on this like, basically like a little blazer on top of your social media post. And like, it just feels icky sometimes when, when people are receiving it. So again, that used to be the norm back in the day, and I think we're starting to see that fade away quite a bit. Yeah. No, that's a really good point because again, I, I, I think I launched TBS like three years ago and now she, EO. Oh gosh. Was it? Yeah, last year. Gosh, yes, last July. And so, even though it's like newer for me, I have to also adapt and revisit and revamp not only my offer because for example, CEO is for early in aspiring coaches, but what I'm teaching in that from last July is already going to be needed to change, right? Yes. For the upcoming seasons, which I do anyways. But yeah, it's just really interesting how fast it always moves. Yes. There are two people that come to mind. Do you, so Jamie c we talk about it a lot. Yes. Mm-hmm. And then do you know Shelby Sap? I feel like I've talked about her. I think we talked about her. I'm not as familiar with her, but we've talked about her for sure. Okay. So just for, I guess it, it's like two opposites almost. So Jamie c has been around for a while and if you check her grid on Instagram, still very aesthetic. Always using photos. I think it's all around the same, you know, color colorway and then Shelby. Complete opposite. No real covers. Just talking to the camera. Very like, to your point, real human. I don't even know if she has brand colors, to be honest. Exactly. So, so what would you say though, like. If you see like two all stars, right? Two that are just at the top of their game. They're both coaches. Yep. But one is winning with the aesthetics, one is winning with the realness, no covers. It's like, you know. Yeah. Halfway through a word like that. Yes. So it's actually really funny that you mentioned that. So if you actually go to Jamie Sees content, when you click on the real itself, it is all Instagram fonts. It's all TikTok fonts. She doesn't actually brand the video. She does have a branded feed. So this is something that's kind of interesting. I think the reason why I think she still does those very aesthetic covers. She is a published author and she's about to launch, I think she's writing her new book or something like that. So when you have different facets of your business that do need to be more heavily branded, when you think of authors, you think of a a different level. I also think it's just something that she's consistently had around are those aesthetic covers, but the, let's say the craftsmanship of the video she's creating. It's the same. They're the same. Those two, two ladies are exactly the same. They're using the TikTok text, they're using the Instagram text. They're setting it up. It's just a selfie with their camera. So that is also an option for you because a lot of the times, some of the behavior that we're noticing with people is as the. The identity for wanting a lot of followers kind of dips off. A lot of people aren't gonna go to your profile and look at that beautifully branded feed anymore. They're just gonna see the original reel. So Jamie, it's like, I haven't looked at Jamie's feed in so long. So, but I'm like, I'm consuming her content all the time. So that's kind of the difference between the two ladies. But they're creating very similar styles of content, which is Got it. Fascinating. Yeah, no, you make such a good point.'cause I was just gonna say. Jamie, I think she's been in the game probably a little bit longer than Shelby. Shelby, yeah. I wouldn't say is new, but in terms of like social media and her growth, I mean, it's skyrocketing every day. She's just growing by the thousands and so I try to pay attention to people that are growing today. Yes. And so it's really interesting to see like maybe the aesthetics and the grid worked for Jamie back in the day, but maybe now not so much to your point. It's it's still the same style of video. Yeah. And then, yeah, you're not even going to her page to follow. It's just like, no, I just see her reels. Like that's what I'm interested in. So that's really exactly point. Yeah. Okay. I think in terms of social media, one more question for you.'cause I'm really trying to cater this towards. Again, early and aspiring coaches, online service providers. If you're listening to this and you want to start a business or you've already started, but you still feel icky cringe, I can't show up online. Do I need makeup? Do I need a ring light? Like all of those questions, I think we always ask ourselves, what would you say to to that woman who is looking to start or just feels like. Oh, I gotta show up online and I gotta talk with conviction and confidence and sell. Like where the fuck do I start? Yes, there's a lot of places you can start. And the one thing as we get into this conversation, I wanna shift everybody's perspective, social media and starting a business in general is gonna be the hardest self-development task you will ever do. So Yes. Amen. Yes. Especially showing up on social media. Our little, our little insecurity guys, they're gonna come through and, and some of your deepest, darkest insecurities will present themselves as you start to show up online and in front of people. So just know that it's normal. And then what I always coach people through in terms of. Wanting to show up on video, wanting to show up here, there, whatever. I want you to think to yourself. I don't just ignore everybody else around you. Everybody says you need a ring light. Everybody says you need this, you need this, you need this. I want you to show up as comfortably as you can. So what this means, what this looks like for me? Day in and day out. I do not wear makeup. I do not do my hair. I wear my hair more natural. You know, loose, wavy, that kind of thing. That's how I show up on social media. Now for YouTube, I don't feel comfortable showing up that way. I take a little bit more production value with my YouTube content. So I will do my hair, I will do my makeup, I will set up the lighting because that's how I show up comfortably, knowing that I can bring value to my audience when I feel comfortable. So if the ring light makes you feel better, I. Get the ring light. If doing your makeup feels better, do your makeup. For me, I show up, no filters, no this, no that, the, you know, that kind of thing for TikTok because that's how I feel comfortable. So know that that you have to just show up because that is where people are going to pick up on your energy. Social media is an energy exchange and you do have to show up in a way that feels authentic to you, and it doesn't mean you're putting on this mask or this fake persona show up in whatever way. Again, feels comfortable to you. So we can get into more examples and dive in if we need to. No, I, I love that advice. Show up as comfortably as you can. And I think, I mean, even for me. So I have a ring light here. I'm not using it right now, but normally, like for my Zoom calls and stuff, I use it just because it enhances the light for my clients on Zoom. I'm not recording or documenting any of it. Sometimes I do, but more it's just like, can you see me? Right? Yes. Like my light here is pretty shitty. Yeah. But what I can say is I feel so comfortable when I walk and talk to the camera. So if I'm walking baby girl, if I'm outside in my backyard, like, I don't know, nature outside is my element. And so if I just pop up the phone and talk to the camera, like I'm FaceTiming a friend that really feels so comfortable for me. The minute I come back into the office, put my ring light on, put a shit ton of makeup on, and then I'm talking, I feel so much like. Like it's a production and I can't stutter and stumble on my words even though I can edit it. It's like a weird sense of like, kind of like what you mentioned, like professional. Yes. Yeah. So it, it's so true with the energy exchange that you just mentioned. Yeah. And it's so funny you bring that up because the thought of creating content, walking and talking outside makes me break out into sweat.'cause I'm a sweaty girl and I'm like, there's no way I could show up and create good content if I'm sweating. And we both, by the way, we both live in Florida, so it's like I can't do that. But I think that is so beautiful for you and it resonates with your people and it you show up comfortably. Whereas, and this is where the big difference is for me, that it would be so uncomfortable. So I'm like, I shouldn't look at you and be like, I need to create content like Katia because she's doing X, Y, Z. I'm like, no, I need to create content for me. Most of my content is shot in my office. I'm like, this is my safe space. This is where I'm comfy. I can close the door, I can close the windows and I can just give to my people. Yeah. And that's the way I have to look at it. Yeah, that's such a good point. And yes, we do live in Florida and yes, it's summer. Yes. So people are like, why, why are you walking outside right now? Con Yes, exactly. Well, well, okay, so, so many other questions on that. So I, I guess maybe this was last month or maybe two months ago when it was still nice ish outside. I was walking Amalia and my dog, and there was a thought that popped up about imposter syndrome. And I had just talked about that with a client. And so I was like, oh, I just, you know, create a spark hit. So let's whip out the phone and let's talk to the camera. And I loved it because. Yeah, it was hot and I would EI was even getting a little sweaty, but it was kind of like funny'cause I feel like I have a very bubbly personality and so it's like I was out of breath and I was like, oh. And then adds to it. Yeah. Right. It adds to it. But there are other times where for example, after my group program CEO, we'd meet every Tuesday night. And after that I feel so charged up. I feel so energized because we just talked about so much shit for 90 minutes. Right. But then I also just wanna turn to my camera and, and just talk about something that just came up. But even though that's in my office. Yeah. So what would you say though, in terms of that brand identity at that time? It's like, Katya, that's great that you have these creative sparks, maybe like jot them down and then later create where, you know, in your natural habitat. Or is it okay to like have these different backdrops and, and look different? Just because I thought of something that I wanted to talk about. Yeah, I think as long as, and that's a very good. Thought process to have for me, what I find, because I get those creative sparks too, but I am just to bring in another content creation principle. I, content batch meaning I sit down and I batch create all my content in one session. I record all four YouTube videos at once. I record all my podcasts at once. Because I have A-D-H-D-I try and cycle sync and do things when my energy is the highest. So for me, the thought of like, oh, I have creative inspiration. Lemme pull out my phone and record doesn't quite work for me. But I know there are a ton of other creators out there and business owners that that is their hardest hitting content. So I think you need to honor your energy levels and it's like, again, that's how you and I create differently. And in that moment, I think the way that you create and you show up, it is more important for you to get that message out than to worry about your background. Whereas for me, it's completely the opposite. So for me it's more so like, let's say you're creating in different environments, like the scenario you just presented, just use the same text you know, like use the same colors. Even if it's a different background, that's totally okay. Try and edit it in the same way that you would as you're walking and talking type of things. But yeah, that's kind of how I like to approach that. And just honoring your energy because. When your energy is the highest, wherever that creativity is coming from, whether it's you, and it sparks a moment of inspiration or me batching that's when you're gonna create the best content is like honoring that energy when it comes, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so good. So going back to what we said, it's consistency over aesthetics, but also your message Yes. Over. So use the same font Yeah. In the app that you're using, like TikTok or Instagram, but yeah, it's the message that needs to hit home. So that's really good advice. Yeah. You mentioned earlier deepest insecurities rise to the surface and that was such a good little tip, a little warning I guess. Yes. For those that are listening and, and want to start a business, what would you say since we're on building her, was. And I don't know if you have, I'm sure you have more than one, but like maybe the biggest insecurity that did rise to the surface that maybe even like shocked you, like, really this is what we're dealing with. Oh, yes. So for me, I am, and this is where I've done lots of therapy, lots of journaling, lots of everything around this thing. We all, we all. So it's one of those things that consistently comes up for me. And it's, I, by nature and or nurture, I am a people pleaser. Mm-hmm. So the way that this showed up in my content and in my business is that I thought I had to be professional to be successful. And when I first started my business, I did not use my name in my content. I didn't use it in my brand. I didn't use it as my company name. I hid behind a professional name. And I would show up in again, more professional attire, wouldn't show my tattoos, like I wouldn't curse. All these things I would hide behind. A brand essentially. And so, because that's what I thought it would take to be successful. So that was one of my biggest insecurities that has followed me through my life and through my career. The minute I shifted out of that, and I'm like professionalism, first of all, as a construct, which I can do a whole podcast episode on that. Mm-hmm. It was one of those things that really skyrocketed my brand and my business when I stopped hiding. Yes, I consistently showed up on camera. Yes, I consistently showed up on social media, but I wasn't showing up as myself. And that was the deepest insecurity.'cause I didn't know who I was, what I wanted, my mission, my vision, my values. I knew what I had professionally. I. Conducted and strategized and all these things, but Amber herself was not showing up on camera. So that is something that I've had to learn, unlearn process. It's always a continuing journey and I'm still, I feel like I'm always in ebbs and flows with that, but that's probably the biggest one that has come up for me. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know I kind of just threw that in there, so, oh, I love it. Appreciate the honesty. No, I could dive deep into that stuff. No, I really appreciate it because I think it just makes you also so much more relatable for people listening. And then also like, even though Amber has a massive following and she's built this business and she's doing the thing that I wanna do, there are certain things that she has had to move through but continues to move through. So yes, I just really appreciate that and I find that so, hopefully inspiring to people that are listening. I think for me it's really interesting. So my deepest insecurity. Somewhere deep, deep down was that I'm still not good enough. And so it was interesting, like when I showed up online or even actually talking to people, having consultation calls, maybe even with clients, they'd have to tell you, but I had this nervous giggle. Yeah, anytime I would say something, there was a nervous giggle that I would add. It was almost like a filler if you say whatever. Yes, mine was a nervous giggle. And it wasn't until I worked with my first life coach where we had to unpack that.'cause she like mid-sentence was like, why do you always do that? Why do you always have this nervous giggle? And not, no one has ever stopped me mid-sentence and pointed that out and said, why do you do this in a very lovingly way? She said it, of course. But in that moment I was like. I don't know. You're like, you don't even realize you're doing it. No.'cause I feel so automatic and, and this is just me. Yes. But when we peeled back the layers, it was this fear of basically not believing or trusting what I was saying. Yep. With conviction and confidence. And so there was that nervous giggle. It was so interesting. But wow. I've come so far and I still do it sometimes when I do get nervous or I feel imposter syndrome, things like that come up. But yeah, I was, I, I wasn't okay with the silence. Yes. And I was still afraid of people's judgment, which people please their tendencies. Hello? I still have that. We, they, it's layers, it builds on itself like a cake. Yeah, totally. Oh yeah. So it, it, to your point. All of my deepest insecurities have rose to the surface. And I would have to say, or or I would make the argument that everyone should start a business. Yes. Because it is the fast track to personal development. Yes. And getting through those insecurities and realizing those quirks, those awkward tendencies that you do that might have developed over time, whether it was nature versus nurture. My, my dad has the same nervous giggle. Oh yeah. Oh totally. That's so funny. Yes. And things get really serious or intense in the moment. He, he laughs. Oh, interesting. So you've picked up on it. That's interesting. I was like, whoa, I had no idea this was there. But anyways, so. I think if people feel nervous about their insecurities coming up to the surface, I would just offer you viewing it as an opportunity to learn more about yourself and trust that this will make you a better business owner, that this will make you a better coach. What, what would you say on that? Like how far have you come by working through those deep insecurities? Yeah, I think I use them as, trigger points for change in one way or the other. I use it as, again, it's a self-development tool. They hurt in the moment, don't get me wrong. But I'll bring up a quick example of this happened to me recently, and it will continue to happen for the rest of my life. I have, I was on the edge of burnout. I, I would argue, I'm still kind of coming out of it. I had one dear friend of mine, similar to the life coach in a Loving way, said. The way you're showing up on TikTok, you seem dead behind the eyes. And I said, thank you for telling me that. Because I've had so much resistance around creating TikTok content, and I was forcing myself, I was falling back into old patterns, old narratives of showing up a little more professionally, doing what everybody else is doing. So again, these things still come up for me, guys, like it still happens to this day. So what I did is I was like, okay, we're gonna shift. I took a quick little pause on TikTok and I'm like, I'm not gonna force myself to show up that way anymore. And it was like kind of a slap in the face in the best way possible. I love that friend dearly, and I took what she said to heart in the best way with the best intentions, which she meant, she meant it that way. So just know that it will always happen. And I just always use it as a method for change. Something. You're falling back into old patterns, recognize what it's trying to tell you instead of like, there's something wrong with me. So that's the way I try and approach it. And it's giving yourself grace in a very nice way too. Yes. I love it. There was another podcast I listened to, I believe it was Mel Robbins. Yes. And she had a guy named maybe Kwame on there, and he was talking about compassionate curiosity. Ooh. So yeah. With yourself, but also others if you need to have, I don't know, an uncomfortable conversation. Yeah. Whatever the case may be. But he talked about curiosity, but one step further, compassionate curiosity. Mm-hmm. And what that allows you to do is look at these insecurities from awareness, from a place of just self love. And I, I would almost say like if you're talking to your inner child, right? Just like, Hmm, why are we doing that? Where did we pick that up? Yes. And the curiosity is the questions in it. And then, yeah, just look at a way out of that or, or how to deal with that in a better way. Not from a place of self, self-judgment or internalizing it like you are. Wrong or you are bad or, or something like that. Correct. And it's just your body's indication of Yeah. You're doing something that's out of alignment, is the way that I look at it. Yeah. And again, it'll come up in your content creation. It'll come up in your building of your business. Yeah. These things are all interconnected. So it's a really fun, it's really fun process and you're always constantly learning something about yourself as well. Yeah, totally. I always say your business is a reflection of you. Oh. Kind of. And so if there's something not working in your business let's look at you. Yes. What, what's going on with you? Oh, yes, totally. Okay. So let's switch gears a little bit from social media and the ever-changing landscape and mindset, but more now into coaching specifically, because I know we talked about it at a brunch. Mm-hmm. How many months ago? I don't even know at this point. I know, but you talked about also social media and Oh, it was the scare of TikTok disappearing. Yes. Yep. And so that kind of threw everyone in social media, like in a scurry of like, Ooh, what are we doing next? And I don't know if brand deals and that type of stuff is changing too, but I do know coaching is getting very like sexy and it's being highlighted. What would you say in terms of just the coaching industry as a whole, like where is that going? Are people, right? If they want to go into the coaching industry, what would you say about that? Yes. So I think from my perspective and what's happening in my industry, and I'm sure it will overlap in yours as well, is that people, we are so overwhelmed. We're coming out of post pandemic. We're going into a lot of different crazy things going on in the world. Technology and AI is rapidly developing. We're going through much through so much as human beings and we resort to technology a lot of the times. And that's why the TikTok scare was a big thing, the that and the other. So people are wanting to come back to humanity and in terms of, especially what it looks like for business is people are looking for that hands-on experience. And that's where I think coaching and community come into play. In my industry, there's been a huge uptick in coaching retreats, meaning you're going to this retreat for a week for a very specific purpose. I will coach you through it, this, that, and the other in-person retreats. Becoming a very big thing, one-on-one coaching. And I actually just read a newsletter today from one of my favorite coaches. Her name's Isha Hawk. She's a business coach in MySpace. She was saying, a lot of people are going to that one-on-one coaching, not for something to learn. Like, I'm, I wanna work with Katya to learn X, y, z. It's, I wanna tap into Katya for her discernment, for her helpful advice to help me make decisions, not necessarily give me all the information, truly just a sounding board, guide me in the right direction from somebody that's maybe only a few steps ahead of me. And that's what I always tell people is. We get the big flashy, shiny coaching, make a million dollars tomorrow, this, that, and the other. When in fact, all you need to be, as a coach, as a service provider, as a new business owner, you need to be one step ahead of your ideal customer, showing them the way that's it. Mm-hmm. So that's what I start, have started to notice in the coaching space is people are wanting that one-on-one interaction and they just need a little bit of guidance. And that's kind of, it's beautiful because there's so much information on the internet, people are overwhelmed and they want a human based experience. So I think we're gonna have ano another revolution with coaching. I feel like it died off in pandemic. We got like digital product land, and then I think we're gonna start seeing an uptick in coaching and community specifically. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm dancing over here. Well, well it's so interesting because. There's always like the good and bad, I guess, of every industry and what people talk about. But the bad of coaching industry in terms of just what I've heard over the last decade is that it's a cash grab. Yeah. Right. They're like, oh, I just need a, I guess back in the day, build a following and have this low ticket offer and just sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. Who cares if people don't get results? Who cares if people don't transform? I made money. Yes. And unfortunately, I guess people do still go into the coaching industry for that reason, especially now if there's another uptick in it, right? Yes. But for me, and this is not to toot my own horn, but truly such a different perspective since day one, because of my own journey with Tony Robbins and my personal development like. I actually experienced the transformation from coaching. Yes. And that is why I got into coaching. It wasn't for money. Like that was so, that was a foreign language to me at the time. Right. I was like, why wait, can make money? Like I can do, I can, I can create a career for myself here. Yes. It's really crazy. Yeah. Had no idea. Just to give you guys some numbers here too, and Yes, I Googled it. Yes. So archaic of me. I love it. But it says the, the global coaching industry is a multi-billion dollar market, estimated to be worth around 6.25 billion, which is last year, 2024, projected to reach 7.30 billion by this year. 2025. Yes. Mm-hmm. So, yes, the coaching industry is exploding. And that's all different levels like life, business, health. Yes. Wellness, you name it. There was actually a story, I think I talked to you about it after our last episode, where this guy in Japan mm-hmm. Gets paid to do nothing. Yes. S sign me up. Like, like riot. In today's world, in Japan, people pay this guy to like go on a walk with them. Yes. Go sit with them at a restaurant and enjoy a nice meal. Mm-hmm. Like if that's already happening in Japan. Exactly. You said humanity. Yes. Yes. So wild. And it's, it's something that I find so interesting that we are willing to put our dollars behind it. I find it very freeing and rewarding.'cause we're not bye byebye materialistic things like, don't get me wrong, there are certain things that are fun to buy, but I'm like, oh, we're willing to put our hard earned money into this. Human connection shows how important it is, which I find very freeing. Some people might have other words for it, but I think it's great. Oh, I think it's great. Yes. No, and I love that we're, we're leaning in towards in-person retreats again. And then what you said about investing into the human of amber, for example, versus all the bells and whistles and the strategy, and I'll make you money and marketing and social media. It's like, no, I want Amber. Yes. I wanna be in her energy. Correct. So, and that's so huge because I guess that translates back to social media of like, let's show Amber's energy. Let's be as authentic as possible. Yes. So that they get a taste of that. Yeah, totally. So with coaching then, what are you playing with or navigating from like your traditional business in terms of social media, I don't know, followers, brand deals, that kind of thing. And I'm sure that's still a part of it, but how are you then like pivoting or changing, if at all, into coaching? Yeah, so for me just to give context, over the last couple of years, I've always provided one-on-one service, one-on-one consulting. That's kind of always been my bread and butter. Brings home the money, pays the bills kind of thing. And then over the last year five years or so, I've dabbled with digital products. I've done brand deals, sponsorships, speakings trainings, da da da. All these different things. I've monetized social media accounts you know, get ad spend, ad revenue, this, that, the other, the big shift that I have made this year in terms of income, revenue, coaching model, that kind of thing, I have left behind brand partnerships and direct monetization of social platforms. And the reason why it's not an oversaturation thing, it's not a mindset thing, it is truly brand deals are always the first to go when the economy starts to slip a bit. So the, the, the deals just haven't been there, and I don't want to rely on an unstable income source. Mm-hmm. When they come, they come, that kind of thing. Monetization on social media is very difficult, and that's what a lot of people try and sell you. They're like, just get to a hundred thousand followers on TikTok and the money's gonna flow in. I can tell you TikTok, I have opted out of all monetization programs. They don't pay me a dime anymore, and it's my biggest biggest account. So, basically I have opted out of that kind of thing. And I'm making my shift. This is a podcast exclusive. I'm currently working on it. I wanna shift away from, and this is what I have been discussing in therapy and doing my own internal inner work. I currently have one foot in the door in terms of I'm still executing for people. Instead of providing a transformation through coaching, I have like one foot in the door, one foot out the door. I am still in the to-do and I need to be in the to lead. So what I'm trying to do is shift more into that leadership. Provide the transformation without doing for you. So I'm currently working on an expansion of my program called the Content System, which is a very much a done for you course or done with you course, show you how to build a content strategy, show you how to build a content system. But I want to add a, i, I don't know what word I'm gonna use yet but a coaching component. It's gonna be community based, but it's gonna be more so on the consulting side of things, I'm gonna be the person that asks you the hard questions. And it's a community so not a typical membership where I drop templates and this, and I'm like, you're gonna come in, you're gonna show up to these calls, and I'm gonna ask you the tough shit that you don't wanna unpack. So I want to make a transition into more of that thought leader, that person leading you in the right direction instead of saying, here's a chat, GPUT prompt to help you with your strategy. There will always be a component of that. There will always be my customer base for that, but I'm trying to make the shift into being a badass leader, so, oh, that's kind of what I'm shifting in my business. Well, that's kind of exclusive for the podcast. That's coming for me though. Yes. So I'm excited. I I love the sound of that. You guys heard it here. First podcast exclusive. Yes. I'm so excited for it. Wait, I'm so curious. Yes. Do you have an example you just said, I'm going to ask them the tough shit. Like Yes. What, like what question? Like, so it give us the juice just to give us like foundation level. This is one of my favorite things. So I always ask the question and it's so simple why people come to me, like I wanna show up on TikTok. Okay. Why? Ah, and they're like, oh, I wanna make a lot of money. I said, okay, why? And like, so I will literally drill down into the why behind things. And typically what it uncovers is they, it's a mindset issue. They don't need me for content creation. They know what they're doing. I can give you all these tips, tricks in that I wanna uncover the why and how you show up in creating content and what's gonna shift for you. So a lot of the times it's just unpacking. As much as we love our bro marketers, sometimes it's unpacking a lot of bro marketer tactics. I'm sure you see that in your industry too. And just shifting people into showing up as themselves in their, in their content is the big deal for me. I know. Ugh, that's so good. You're, you're going to absolutely thrive into that when you step so into this leadership frequency and Yeah. Not being afraid to ask those questions. Yes. I, I think the, immediately what came up for me when you said the question of why youre almost helping people, not only. Grow post, more consistency, whatever, but it's like identifying their personal brand completely rooted in who they are as a human and helping them identify that. Mm-hmm. Yes, because I am, I got chills. I was gonna say, I'm super, super excited. You know, like one of the, just the, another little mic drop, one of my little taglines that I've come up with is creativity is optional, but systems are essential. So it's like showing you the behind the scenes of what's actually going to help your content strategy. People focus on the wrong things. Again, that's that leadership aspect. I'm like, y'all are focusing on the wrong stuff. Mm-hmm. I need to guide you in the direction that you need to be, so, yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so huge. That's gonna be so transformative for people too. They think they're just getting social media, but no, we are getting mindset. I was like just putting my life coach hat on. Yes. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited for you. That's huge. And you're just gonna change so many people's lives, so I can't wait. Love it. Okay, well, I guess on that, well, no, shifting gears again, but still under coaching a lot of this is. Investing. Yeah. And I mean, gosh, I would say the number one objection I get on consultation calls or whatever people sign up for is, oh no, that's too much money. Oh no, I can't do it. Just last week I recorded a podcast episode because I ran into this three different times in three different conversations about I already have debt, I cannot add more debt onto my credit card, whatever. With this coaching investment. Yes. What would you say about investing just in general? Yes. I'm sure we'll have so much more to dive into. So here's the funny part about this. Just speaking towards my own experience and just backstory here, I've made. Poor investing decisions in terms of my business and I've made great ones. And the way that I discern this with people is what is their overall objective at the end? And I always come with the end transformation they are looking for and trying to evaluate why they don't find value with it associated with the dollar amount that I'm throwing at them. And oftentimes it comes down to it's not that they don't see the value in whatever it is I'm providing. They think somebody else can do it cheaper. They go the cheaper route. And not only have they wasted their investment, believe me, I'm speaking from personal experience'cause I've done the same thing. Yeah. And I end up going and spending that amount of money almost sometimes double over. And for me it's, I always let it, I, I never try and force a sale, push a sale, this, that, the other, and I just. I leave them again with the question of why. It always comes down to the question of why, why did you reach out to me in the first place? You know, why did you want to seek out coaching for your content, for your social media? What's the end result that you're hoping for? How could you go and achieve it on your own? And how could I help get you there? You know, that kind of thing. So for me it's always just like uncovering what's underneath it because most of the time, sometimes I would say there's a good percentage where it is truly money. But most of the time it is a value and an alignment issue. Yeah. So that's for me, again, never wanna push a sale, never wanna force a sale, ever needs to do what they need with their own money. But it's also. We have seasons of hustle. How can you hustle to, you know, I've had to, I have purchased courses for two plus grand and they, I've never watched it all the way through because I thought it was gonna promise me something, this, that, the other, when I could have just spent$5,000 on the coach. Mm. Could have just spent$5,000 on this. So you end up regretting it in the end you know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, it's a tough one though. Yeah, it's so interesting because digital courses, it's so valuable and I even want to come up with a digital course still that's low ticket and essentially reach the masses and get a taste of what Katya is all about, whatever. Yeah. But to your point, it's like there's no one there to hold you accountable to say, Hey, did you watch week one content? Hey, did you walk, watch week two content? We do. Exactly. And so it kind of, I think you mentioned it last time, like a digital course graveyard kind of thing. Yes. Oh, I have one. Believe me, I have one. So yeah, so the intention is good. And of course you're excited when you, when you invest, but I think to your point, I think. That humanity and, and the live component is so powerful because you have the actual person giving you their undivided attention and accountability and asking you those hard questions that a digital course will not, this is not a one-on-one live coaching experience versus digital course. Yep. But mm-hmm. I, I think in general, you have to be really honest with yourself of how do you learn best? Yeah. And what do you need in this season of life? Do you need that accountability? Do you need someone to be like, show the fuck up and do this? Yes. Or do you just need more information and knowledge because you want to put that into your business as well? Yeah. And so the frame, and then just to give some tangible advice to potentially new business owners out there. Anybody starting, I again, don't ever force a sale, but I always tell them, okay, if it's truly a money issue. You can learn everything that I teach for free somewhere on the internet. I put out so much damn content that I'm like, if you just need a quick answer, here's a YouTube video. I would point them to resources. Here's a low ticket product, here's the course. Mm-hmm. You are ready. And I'm like, I can't promise you a transformation there. I can't promise you it'll take you two days or 200 days. What I can promise you is that if you're ready to invest in said X, Y, Z service, this, that, or the other, this is what I can do. Mm-hmm. So I always give them an option and you can totally do the same thing. But like I, I always tell people, I'm like, you can literally learn what I'm gonna teach you. It's do you want it customized and do you want your handheld. That kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think of my first investment, it was$900. I was 26, 27 maybe. I was in Chicago, and I was so scared. I was so afraid I had no, I actually didn't follow this woman on social media. Yeah. I, I just found her with a Google search actually. That's amazing. Right. I was like, that worked for her. Yeah. And we had a consultation call and I was just so, enamored by her energy and she was so funny. And I don't know, just a really good energy from her. And I then decided, I think it was that night where I would invest the$900, which I've never invested before, was my first time. So that$900 felt really big and expansive for me and it was the best decision ever. Mm-hmm. And then from there, that truly set up my investing career. Let's call it my, my journey. Yes, exactly.'cause then I invest into a business coach and then I re-upped with that coach and it, it is just constant investing over here and then a group mastermind. Yes. And I do have to say. It's always been a good transformative experience for me. It always has moved the needle in my personal life, also my business. But C, if you connect the dots, looking back, it's always been a live component and always with that human. Yes. Right? Mm-hmm. So clearly that's how I work best and that's how I've learned best is I need the handholding. No shame in that. I'm like, yes. You're like, I need it. Yes. Teach me everything. You know, like I pick their brain, I ask the questions, people are annoyed. I'm like, Hey, you know, we gotta get a question. Exactly. Yes. Totally agree. So yeah, so I think, for those listening there, there's always going to be an upside to investing, even if it's not the expected result that you had in your mind.'cause I think sometimes we do that. Like I'll invest TA Katya, I'll invest into Amber and I'm gonna have this six figure thriving coaching business in two months. Exactly right. So it's like, okay, that maybe that's, let's be real though. That's a little maybe out of reach. It's not impossible, but maybe it's outta reach, however. If we could help you move the needle in that direction, if we could help you take a few steps further in that direction that you wouldn't have done by yourself, is that worth it? And I think that's the big question. Oh, a hundred percent. Totally agree. Would you say when we just talk about money, like money mindset, because a lot of people again, say it's too expensive or already have a lot of debt, and, and rightfully so, it's their first time investing, so they don't really know mm-hmm. What the transformation is on the other side. What would you tell them in terms of like. That icky feeling of, ooh, I, I'm gonna, you know, I'm about to invest 5,000, 10,000, whatever the number is, and I don't feel good about it, but I feel like it's the right thing to do. And it's like this weird in-between. What would you say to, to people on the fence? Yeah, totally. So I will say the most transformative experiences I've ever had myself with coaching have always been scary investments. Personally speaking, that has just been the truth of it because I know at least, again, a lot of the work that I've done myself obviously we need to make sure we're taking care of ourselves, paying our bills. Yes, I don't ever want you to use rent money on coaching services for me. But it's one of those things that the investments that I've made that have felt very scary. I'm like, I knew that's a step I needed to take in the right direction. I've done my research, I've looked around. I know that this is the transformation they will provide. I've looked at testimonials like I've done my due diligence. And it's like literally swiping the credit card. I'm like, oh, this is scary, but I'm gonna do it anyways, kind of thing. Those have been the most transformative experiences now, the ones that promise you everything and the cake and the this and the that, and sometimes it's the cheaper option that has been actually my least transformative. Mm-hmm. In terms of if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And the way that I look at it at the end of my investments you know, I, there's one mastermind that comes into play and it truly was a mastermind. Wasn't that much curriculum that I was learning from the person. It's just she fostered such an amazing group of women that I, we learned from each other. Biggest investment to date for me. And again, no curriculum, no handholding. It was just, she fostered the right environment. And that was by far the biggest investment I've ever made and the most transformative. And it was only three months. And it, the way it tr it gave me the trajectory towards public speaking that I needed put me in the room with the right people, the right connections, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. So just know that when it feels scary, our nervous systems tend to shut us down for a reason, because it feels discomfort. And again, don't use your rent money on me, pay your bills, but also know that that discomfort is potentially a sign in the right direction. Yeah. Ah, such solid advice. Thank you so much. Of course. It's hard though. Yeah, it's, yeah. Yeah. It, it's, it's so hard and, and there's so much to say on this, but I think abundance mindset comes up for me because, and also people listening to this, they, they might be like, Ugh, okay, whatever caught you abundance mindset, like, I gotta pay my bills, you know? Yes. Which I totally understand. Yes. However, this is just something that I've learned in my investing journey. Yes, please have your rent money, keep the lights on, have food in the fridge. Like we're not trying to make you go broke over here. Correct. But there is something to say with the power of investing energetically and trusting yourself that you will make that money back and profit. Yes. So what I mean is, even in my life coaching days when I wasn't business coaching, right. Just life coaching and mindset. Let's say, I don't know, it's$7,500. That was one of my investments actually. And did I have that 7,500? No, and I have it cash. Yeah, but I did have a credit card. No limit. Yeah. There was that scary feeling you just touched on. Yeah. And I knew in my bones that this was the, the right next step for me to grow as a coach and to really take this business thing seriously. Yeah. So I thought about it for a day. I told Bur I was doing it. I looked for support, not permission. Yeah. Difference. I'm there doing Yes. I was like, please, will you support me? And he was like, absolutely, I trust you. I was like, great. So I did it. And I have to say I was so surprised and shocked with how my mind essentially kicked into solution mode and make it happen mode. Yeah. So it's like the transformation, like half of it was already just in that transaction. Like, here I am, I'm doing the thing. Doing it. Mm-hmm. I'm telling the universe like, this is it. Now we're becoming a coach. And then everything that I learned, I was a sponge and I just went into action mode and apply mode, and I made that$7,500 back in three months. Yeah. And honestly, that knowledge that I gained and, and the how to has lasted me years. Yes. So, I, I just, I say that because I think people always just see a price tag and there's like sticker shock and they don't have that money yet, so they're like, ah, I can't do it. Let's wait until we get the money. It's like, but, but how will you get the money? Right. If you've gotten yourself into this spot, it's like, maybe you need to change the pattern. Maybe you need to learn from someone in order to make the money that you want. You see what I mean? Yeah, totally. And I, I feel like, and this is where my abundance mindset might be a little bit different from everybody else's'cause I can easily fall into scarcity. I've had lots of scarcity mindset my entire life. But the one thing I always come back and tell myself is that I'm not gonna allow myself to fall on my face. Like we talked about this last episode, I think too. Yeah. Our terms of failure as business owners is going and getting a nine to five. And I'm like, that's not failure. You know, I, the way I look at it when I've made those big scary investments when maybe I, my bank account was saying otherwise, like, you shouldn't be spending this money right now. One of the things that it did propel me and I was the same way. Action taking. I'm like, I'm not gonna let myself fall in the face on my face. I, let's say I spend five grand. I'm like, okay, lemme go secure five clients of my own. Let me go do X, y, Z service. Let me make that money back. I'm more of a, let me make that money back before I even start the program. In other ways. That's how I work. I'm like, you know what? Lemme go hustle for a second and get that money real quick. Yes. Then I can show up to the program, to the coaching, to the whatever, with a clear, fresh mind of, oh, this was free. I use a little girl money. I learned girl math. I'm like, oh, this was free. This was already paid for. This is fine. If I get something from it, cool. If I don't, I don't. So that's the way I like to approach it too. I'm like. Even if I just get one transformative thing out of this experience, then I'm good. It's already paid for itself kind of thing. Totally. I love the girl math piece. Oh yes. But like it's already paid off. It's fine. Yeah, it's free. It's a free program. It's a free program now. No, you, you say so many good points. So really quick, I mean, just I guess to reduce it down to one statement, it's betting on yourself. Totally. It's having the trust and the knowing that I will not fall on my face. I will make this work. Nope. I will give it my all. I will be a sponge. I will show up to the calls. I'll be on time, I'll be present. I'll take notes. Like there's a certain energy of just like, I'm gonna make the shit happen. Mm-hmm. Right. And then I think also to your point of like, before even the program starts, I love that mindset of I'm gonna already figure out how to make money and, and keep in mind, so again, if you're not, if you invest in, let's say a business mastermind and you're going to learn how to build a business, well, making money though. I mean, hello. We have the internet, we have ai, we have chat, GBT. There's so many ways to make money. It's like the scrappiness Yes. That you can have. Right. I remember I worked with a life coaching client and she's like, ah, funds are low. And I'm like, cool. Solution mode. Like how are we making money? Like swap your pride. Ego might take take a hit. Yeah. But it's like we're trying to make money. Mm-hmm. And so what she started doing was dog walking on Rover. I love that. And house sitting. Yes. So she's like, oh yeah, I work from home on my computer. Let me go sit in another house. House and collect a paycheck. Yes. Right. So her brain just tapped into that like, oh. Let's make money. So it's not even just coaching and, and consultation calls and pitching and selling. It's like, let's just make money if that's the problem. Yes, exactly. And I will say the one other last thing, I wanna leave people with those, those come in seasons. I even go in and out of those seasons where I'm like, it is hustle mode. It is real. I wanna make an investment. I wanna do X, Y, Z. And sometimes as a business owner, you have to make hard decisions. Sometimes it's decreasing, getting rid of your va, sometimes it's getting out of the membership that's a hundred bucks a month that you're not actually taking action on. You know, believe me I'm talking to myself here. So sometimes it also comes in the hard decision making to make that investment in yourself. I've had to make plenty of those in the past as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. I, I think also to. Before we close this up, before we wrap it up, I, I would just say money is energy. Yes. When, when we think about investing in, especially here, building a business mm-hmm. Any type of money that I spend, even if it's on like my Zoom monthly fee or investing into a coach, it's this energy that I am pouring into either myself or my business. That that's truly how I look at money now is like, okay, this is$10,000. How much energy am I now putting into this thing? Mm-hmm. And trusting it's going to blossom and, you know, yes. I'll, I'll reap the. Rewards after the fact, so. Oh, totally. That's a good way to look at it. Absolutely. Okay, I know we're a little over and last time I told you, at the end of every episode, I always ask, how are you building her? You mentioned showing up as your unapologetic self. So what would you say more for, again, the early and aspiring coach, online service provider, or I saw another coach say the want preneur. I love it. What, what would you tell her as she is in this journey of building her and she is maybe again, afraid or has a living money mindset and yeah, just in that really, how do you say it? The, the, that energy of indecision, the, the energy of. Fear the energy of loss. No one gets it. I feel crazy. No one around me is doing this. What? What would you tell her? Yes. Yeah. So I think the big one, and this is a quote that carries me through even to today, I still think about this one all the time. It's like when you look back a year from now, are you gonna be in the same place? Are you gonna be somewhere different? And that is something that I, when I come up with fear or fear comes up for me and hard decisions come up for me. Indecisiveness comes up for me. I said, okay, do I wanna continue doing what I'm currently doing right now? And in a year from now, will I be happy with that? Or will I be upset that I didn't start a year ago? Mm-hmm. So that's kind of the big, the big one for me. That is a common theme that always comes up for me. And hopefully that resonates with you, even if it's a small step forward every single day. It can be us social media posts tomorrow, and it could be an LLC by the end of the week, like who knows what it looks like? But just those small minute changes, even 1% better every single day. You'll be 365% better next year. You know, that kind of thing. So yeah, I love it. Such sound advice. I always think too of like I picture the 80-year-old self of me and I think back on this moment of decision making, will I be either proud or disappointed? Oh, I love to speak. And that's that similar sentiment. Oh, I love it. Totally. Yes. Totally. Yeah. Think about for your future you, yeah. And just reward her now, like a hundred percent. Mm-hmm. I love this conversation so much. Thank you again, Amber, for being here of a second time. I know we can yap forever. I know we're professional yappers over here. Absolutely. I think maybe the third one in the future we do like a q and a just from people in our space and just ask those, answer those questions directly. So yes, and gimme the hard questions guys. Oh yes. We're open books over here if you haven't noticed. So. Well thank you again, Amber. I'll leave all of your information in the show notes below and yeah. We'll, we'll have a third episode here coming shortly. Yay.