Courage in Silence

In this conversation, Ashley and Nate explore the complexities of the mind, particularly during silent retreats. They discuss the challenges of working with the default mode of the mind, the importance of compassion and empathy towards it, and the necessity of ownership over one's mental processes. The dialogue emphasizes the significance of awareness, the courage to embrace silence, and the practical applications of mindfulness in daily life. They also touch on the distinction between intuition and thought, the desperation often felt in the mind, and the journey of self-discovery that comes with unraveling conditioned ways of being. Ultimately, they highlight the transformative power of coming home to one's true nature and the excitement of exploring new experiences.

Transcript

Ashley (00:03.353)
Hi everyone, hi Nate.

Nate (00:05.705)
Ash.

Ashley (00:08.345)
Welcome to this episode of Spiritual Unraveling. I had this thought today that we could explore

Working with our mind. I'm preparing for a silent retreat for tomorrow. And I've been preparing some materials for the participants. And one of the things that I was thinking about is supporting people in once they're in the silence, working with the mind because

think that's one of the most challenging aspects of silent retreat is really seeing how busy the mind is, being left alone with how busy the mind is, and then not just the busyness, but also the flavor of the mind. What is the mind focusing on?

What is it trying to accomplish? What's the tone? it mostly positive? Is it mostly negative? Is it protective? Is it looking for validation? And so when people get quiet, often that's where they find themselves in this relationship with the mind.

I know for me that I, when I first started meditating, I really thought that I needed to control the mind and that is absolutely impossible and not the point at all. So I've just been thinking about that because my retreat is tomorrow. And I've also been noticing some shifts in my own relationship with my

Nate (02:02.511)
you

Ashley (02:14.691)
What I wanna sort of call my default mode of the mind, you know, that's really unconscious, automatic process. As I get into deeper and deeper layers of that default mode, there's an invitation to establish a relationship with it. And either that's going to be a positive relationship or a negative relationship.

Mostly, I think I go first for the negative relationship. Like, gosh, is this what my mind is doing? You know, there's sort of a rejection or a judgment of it. And so I've been working lately with trying to embrace it more and understand it and honor it and include it and understand it and have a little bit of a more positive relationship with it.

So this has really been up for me lately. And so I thought we could talk about it today.

Nate (03:15.657)
Thanks

Nate (03:21.618)
Yeah, there's really so much there. I think one of the things that I heard that popped out when you were talking about the awareness that comes up when you do silent retreats is this idea that stillness is really the access point. Stillness and silence is the access point to awareness.

where when we go into those meditative or contemplative states and we really just don't try to do anything necessarily, but we become very aware of what's kind of playing in the background and then it becomes an interesting exercise, I guess is the word, I'm not sure, of how far back do you want to observe things? You know, I love

Michael Singer's idea about just kind of pulling the layers back further and further from the thinking. Like who's thinking that thought? Okay, step back one more, okay. Who's thinking the thought? Who's thinking that thought? And like kind of just getting further and further back so that you can get to this place of pure consciousness. And now obviously that's, you can't do that.

when you're out running errands and doing everything. So it is an exercise, but it does allow you to work with the mind. And I think that was the other thing that I noticed when I was listening to what you were talking about, what was making me think about was if we can conceptualize the default mode and pull it a little bit apart from us, then it becomes something that we can work.

and I love what you were hinting at was bringing in empathy or compassion for the default mode. The default mode has been saving all of us in this kind of matrix that we live in, right? The default mode thinking that most of us are installed with isn't necessarily ours and it's not always that helpful, but it is a functional orientation tool to the world.

Nate (05:43.398)
and it kinda keeps you safe, right? But it has limits. And the only way that you can break free from those limits or start working with it is noticing when it's there. And I think you're really onto something when you were noticing what relationship do you wanna have with it. Because I think there is a big pull in the metaphysical world and the spiritual community, new age stuff. There's a lot of ego bashing. mean, let's be honest, and sometimes we do it.

like, the egoic mind, this, that, and it is true, but it also serves a purpose. And it's coming out of a lot of wounded parts of ourselves, so it deserves some compassion. just that idea alone allows you to, as you're talking about work with the energy of the mind, it allows you to work with it in a very different way. You're bringing a very different energy, an energy which we

I think we've talked about before, which is curiosity, right? And when we comment things like this with curiosity and openness and openheartedness and compassion, we just open up new doors of exploration and different avenues of ways that we can access that open up to us as opposed to just, default mode is negative. I don't know, I hate it when it does that or.

immediately I feel like I'm judged by other people. That's okay. It's okay to be aware of those aspects of your mind. But I also would say that is a level of thinking and a level of thought that could also be observed and peel back a little and say, why am I so negative to my mind? Why am I negative to like the first level of thought? The first level of thought is, you know, it's the stuff that was bloated on you for the most part. And it takes a while to get that stuff separate.

from you. So those are kind of my initial thoughts. It's just that one, you have to kind of label it and create space from it in order to work with it. And I don't mean label in a bad way. I just mean kind of like create a framework for it. And two, I think really the idea of bringing empathy or compassion towards those different levels of thought into yourself who's created this mental model, you know, is going to be

Nate (08:09.02)
very beneficial for you in terms of your kind of spiritual growth or just even just making this process more pleasant. I don't know, what do you think about that?

Ashley (08:18.404)
Yeah, I love that. I love the silence and stillness is the basis for that awareness and the awareness allows us to see. And then the separation is kind of important because it allows you to develop the relationship and then really bringing compassion in really helps with that. And then I think there's this next layer, which is I think the space that I'm in right now, which is

ownership of the whole thing because the default mode has its own mission. It has its own energy. It has its own determination and focus and intensity. And that can be hard. It can be hard, right? we can the desire to separate and distance ourselves from that is probably going to be strong as we're moving into awareness as we're becoming more and more aware. But ultimately,

And the separation is helpful. then there's this ownership piece. can own as you bring compassion in and self-acceptance in acceptance of this default mode and really understand it. Really understand its motivation. How is it trying to protect you? How is it working in your favor for what it thought its job was through that conditioning in the matrix? Like how you said that.

And then we take ownership of the whole thing because real true freedom, truly living sort of an awakened life has to include that, has to include our default mode. has to include our conditioning. And so we're inviting it actually to be included in the ownership of all of who we are.

And, you know, where we're starting out, we just believe in it. We believe that that is who we are. We believe the striving for success, the striving for validation, the seeking worthiness, all of that is the point of life. We think that is who we are, right? And then we get this idea, my gosh, that's not who I am. That thing is just doing its own thing. Who am I? And we sit with who am I? And we have some separation from, and then we bring it all back in. We are all of it.

Ashley (10:43.609)
know that everything is included, everything is allowed in. So, and I'm really lately interested in taking full responsibility for my being. I'm really seeing that as connected to freedom so that if I feel victimized or if I'm, you know, in any way seeing myself at the mercy of something or

or I'm starting to create duality. How do I...

how do I take ownership of everything that's happening so that I can work with it in my being, you know? it seems to be really helping.

Nate (11:33.088)
Yeah, mean, bringing this to the practical, what we're actually talking about is out of the contemplative or meditative practices and into the real life. That is really where the rubber meets the road for a lot of this stuff because it's the reactive moments that we have in life that are really where there's a lot of power.

Right? And there's a lot of this going on and if we can just create a little bit of space in those moments and then we have a little chance to do things differently. But I'll just share since we're talking about this yesterday, our landlord came over and our bathroom hasn't been working for like three days. We have no shower. It's a family of five with only one toilet and now no shower and the second toilet's broke.

It's been a little tense. And I was trying to help him fix it and I could just feel I was being pulled into, I was being pulled into fix it mode. I I could feel I was taking on his anxiety and all the stuff with it. And the day kind of flew by and it was a little frenetic and I could feel that when my kids got home, the energy that I was exuding was still kind of frenetic and tied up from

my earlier stuff working with the landlord. And then it's like, I don't know, around like 6.30 or seven, I was just reflecting and I was like, okay, so that day was suboptimal in terms of how I handled my kind of reactive energy. was just like momentum, you know? So that's a big part. I think, so that's my personal little story about how if we...

If we don't create a little space and reflect and slow things down, we can kind of get through half of the day, three quarters of the day and you realize, I was kind of in like autopilot, just kind of damage control, whatever, not fully being present and using a lot of the default mode, kind of neural pathways and just the way I normally do things. And that's my story. But I mean, when I broaden it out and I look around.

Nate (13:59.59)
like the news, what's happening in politics, what's happening with the weather, what's happening with wars. It's like inundating us. Right now there is just so many hooks that can grab you and really like take you down that pathway. And again, the momentum is real. It doesn't take much. So I think this is a really interesting topic for the time because there is a big need.

to slow that thinking down, to examine it, and to forge a new relationship with it. Especially when you have experiences like that where you're all of sudden, you're kind of through, the vortex has sucked you through at the end of the day and you're like, I was not fully present today. And then having a passion for yourself as you're talking about full ownership. But yeah, I think that's...

the kind of practical call, is if you don't want to be kind of pushed around by circumstances, then it's helpful to take a little inventory of the way you process things. don't know. I mean, you're getting ready to take people on a silent retreat for three, four days, something that is going to really be a huge pattern interrupt. So maybe...

I don't know, I'd be curious for you to talk about that and just, you know, why the, what's so important about that? Because that's like a huge opportunity for people to do a big shift.

Ashley (15:42.327)
Yeah, yeah, it's four days. And it is, it's disruptive. It takes a lot of courage to bring yourself, you know, really maybe for the first time, but each time you never know what's gonna come up. That's the thing about silence. It's really an invitation to see what's happening. And I suppose you could fight it the whole time if you wanted to, they'd take a lot of energy.

The invitation is really to let go and allow whatever needs to to come. Whatever wants to be seen, whatever wants to be felt. And, you know, every single time, I would say 97 % of the time, people look so bright and shiny at the end because of that reclamation. I mean, I think we're all afraid a little bit of what's gonna come. We're all afraid of what's gonna come.

And because it's the stuff we've been avoiding. you know, there's a reason for that. Maybe it's going to be painful or sometimes people get in touch with joy actually. And that, and there's a, there's a painful aspect of that because it's something that they've been avoiding in their normal life. So, so even if you're getting in touch with bliss on, on retreat, there's some

you know, it can be scary, it can be challenging. I had one woman one time who's just the nicest woman, just really, know her in my personal life, she's the nicest, nicest, happiest, always has a smile on her face. And she came on retreat and got in touch with anger. She didn't know really what it was about, but it was amazing for her to sit with this anger for the majority of the retreat. And...

start to explore an aspect of herself that she really didn't get in touch with very much. there's always, it's always a surprise what comes up, but yeah, just getting to know yourself, accessing these places that you're keeping. I think about it like if the psyche is a house, you've got some of these doors just chain shut and they open.

Ashley (18:04.739)
But you know, if you have a house where half the doors are chained shut and you start to open them, the house airs out, you feel lighter, you just feel better. So people usually leave bright and shiny. I know I always did, I always did. Even if I had a confusing retreat or a difficult retreat, I always left feeling lighter.

I was going to say that what you were talking about reminded me of a practice that I've done periodically and I'm happy to talk about it because I haven't really thought about it too much. I just would kind of do it. So it's kind of fun to talk about it. But I, when I would see different aspects of my mind, kind of, it reminded me when you were saying that you noticed, you know, you got halfway through the day and noticed that you had been.

on autopilot, well, you noticed that you were on autopilot. I mean, that's the point is like you noticed, right? So it's not that you were on autopilot, it's that you noticed that you're on autopilot. And so one practice that I would do is I would pick something that I would notice as a pattern in myself. for example, maybe on one retreat, you know, or just in my practice, my spiritual practices, I would notice that judgment was really up.

for me, like judging other people, judging situations, judging myself. And so I would just develop this practice of trying to notice when judgment was there and really work with judgment in particular. Or I was thinking there was a period of time when I would work with presence. I would notice I'm not present or I'm not in my body. And I would just bring my attention into my body or I bring my attention to the present moment. So I would pick a theme and really work it.

whenever I could remember, maybe I would work it in my daily meditation or would work it throughout the day. Those have been really powerful actually to bring a theme in. I can't think of another one. Judgment and presence were two that came to mind. I don't know if you've ever done anything like that.

Nate (20:20.083)
Yeah, I have and I like that. What I wanted to say is when you were talking about the presence aspect, it was making me think of a technique that you can do. I think I heard it from somebody who was doing Qigong and they said one of the ways that you can slow down or again, create kind of like an interruption in a busy mind is to

just imagine moving your mind to your belly. And just like drop, just like an elevator, just take it all down. And they're like, the mind won't stay there, but your consciousness will stay in your belly, because your mind has to stay up here, but it can kind of trick it to get down there. And then they said even, I think they went on to say that if that didn't feel like it was grounding you enough, you could think about your toe.

Ashley (20:56.198)
and

Ashley (21:03.779)
Yeah.

Ashley (21:08.963)
Yeah.

Nate (21:18.101)
And it was like, as close, get your consciousness or your focus as like almost physically as physically far away from your mind as possible, like down to your toe, which is on the ground. And I love these little things. know, are, nothing is actually moving, right? We're just, it's our focus, it's our attention. But I think what we've been dancing around here is the gap.

It's the gap and it's the moment of awareness and I appreciate you acknowledging that it wasn't that I was on autopilot, it was that I became aware that I was on autopilot. And when you were talking about retreat, it just makes me think of, I mean, meditation has so many positive benefits, but I feel like one of the biggest benefits that I got when I first started the practice,

was just noticing the robustness of the space between an event and a reaction. And it's not a big space, but when you're not having some kind of a practice like meditation or really doing some other form of work, of reflective work, there's almost no space between an event happening and the thinking going and then...

you're kind of initiating. And when I say reaction, don't just mean like an outward reaction. I also mean like a mental or thinking reaction. And one of the awesome benefits of meditation or a reflective practice is creating a one, two, three second gap before you're like, okay, I can feel, it's like you're at the top of the slide of normal thought.

And then you have this moment, it becomes this pivot point, this choice point where you're like, okay, if I let myself go down there, that's a well-trodden path. And it is a well-trodden neural path, and it's a well-trodden default thinking path. And it just creates the moment where you can say, let's choose a different way of thinking about this. And it seems like that's what we're getting at here in terms of...

Nate (23:40.428)
How do we think about our thinking? How do we create separation so that our thinking isn't thinking us? And that was another thing I think that's coming up around this conversation as we're talking, is that there's a real possibility that many people probably are feeling like their thinking is them. And it's just not. It's just ephemera. It is a very...

awesome piece of evolution up there in your brain creates this thing called the mind and it does some powerful and amazing things but it is not the totality of you and that is an important distinction to make especially when you're really in you know spirally thoughts or kind of down thoughts I don't know what you think

Ashley (24:37.013)
Yeah, you just said a lot. I'll say the first thing that I was thinking is, you know, that idea of you are not your thoughts. are not, you know, that's a really hard thing to wrap your head around when you're first working with, or even, I don't know, when you've been working with it for a while. It's just so automatic to, we've been so conditioned to think we're our thoughts.

And if you're not your thoughts, then what are you? You know, that's where my mind goes is like, okay, well then what am I, if I'm not just reacting like you were saying to every thought that comes into my mind, if I'm not believing every thought that comes into my mind, then how do I know what to do? How do I know who I am? How do I know what move to make in life? then we've...

done a podcast on intuition, I think, you it's like there are other aspects of you, the heart, the gut, you know, the intuition that seem to feel have a different quality to them. They seem to have a different tone and the directions that they offer tend to have a different quality too. So,

So we start to be able, I think that's another cool part of retreat is that you start to really feel the difference between the mind and the intuition because the mind just never stops. It just never stops. you start, mean, I'll say personally for me on my first silent retreat, and I...

And I now I have so much more compassion for this. I did not on that first retreat, but to notice like sort of the desperate quality of the mind. The mind was just so desperate to get me to certain feeling states or to certain thinking states that there was a desperate quality, there was an intensity to it. When that sort of quieted down on that retreat, when I...

Ashley (26:53.463)
When I sort of what you were talking about about separation, had a little separation. I was able to see it and I let go. I let go of following it. I let go of trying to control it. I dropped into a much quieter place and it's like kind of when you go on vacation to like, you know, tropical location, everyone's just walking around in barefoot and

Nobody knows what time it is. You know, whatever. It kind of feels like that. Like going from the city, which is your mind, busy, busy, busy. It's got a lot of drive and motivation. To dropping down into this quiet place where there doesn't feel as much desperation or intensity or motivation. Then the voice that comes up there, it's a lot quieter and it feels a more subtle.

but it's clear and it feels different in the body. You receive it almost rather than you're creating it. I mean, you're also receiving your thoughts, but it feels like you're creating your thoughts. so this just feels like you're receiving it. And people often wonder about this on retreat is how do I trust what's my intuition? How do I know that it's that?

Really, you just have to keep at it and eventually you trust it because it feels different.

Nate (28:31.008)
Yeah, I think that's the key is that it's a different and when you're talking about, we're using some language that sounds like, we're bringing some physical attributes to the mental process. When we talk about things slowing down and the speeding up in the brain and slowing down when we create silence or stillness. I like to think of that as like frequency.

and the frequency of thoughts when you're in the mind and you're kind of just in that busy default mode as you were talking about, it's like, it's high frequency, high amplitude, kind of neuronal firing. So it's like, can feel, it's almost like a game of pong between your ears, like bing, bing, bing. It's going back and forth. Also, there was something that you said there around the...

the kind of fear that grips the mind when you're talking about your first retreat. And I think that that is scary in the moment, but I think now when we're kind of away from it and we can work with it a little bit, we can diagnose something interesting there about the mind, which is the mind doesn't really do original thought all that well.

The mind likes to work within a set of parameters that it feels comfortable with. And that's often why we get stuck in patterns of behavior or in patterns of interactions with other people because the mind likes, you know, it's like my eight-year-old son who just wants chicken nuggets and fries. It's chicken nuggets and fries all the time. The mind is always wanting a small bandwidth of options. It doesn't love.

expansiveness. doesn't love infinity. It doesn't love the kind of universal consciousness. And so it has a very different bandwidth. And you can kind of tell which one you're in if you can take a moment and reflect. You can tell which one you're in because one of them feels expansive and one of them feels familiar. And that's almost always the best way to tell you're in a lot of kind of you're in your default mind.

Nate (30:52.821)
If it feels familiar, it's very likely that that kind of base mode because, and it's no fault of the mind. It is a pattern recognition machine. It's kind of what it does. you know, I like like Bashar talks about the way that the regular kind of functional mind is not really generating new things. It's just

deciphering information and sorting it and figuring out what's happening. When we have ideas or inspiration filled with spirit, it's really us, it's like a piece of us is going up into universal consciousness, grabbing a fish out of that stream that's always flowing and pulling it back down and then working with it with the mind. And that's I think why sometimes people get confused. They're like, no, no, I thought that.

that great idea, I thought that up. And it's like, yeah, mean, you put it into action, but the thought probably is swimming around there out there in the ether. mean, that's why when people get into the zone, artists, athletes, whoever, it's like, they're not in their mind. They're not thinking about what they're doing. They're just in the flow. And so there's a, it's a nice way to decipher.

where you're at in that process. It's like, you know, if it feels routine, if it feels familiar, also if it feels a little negative or repetitive, you're in your kind of default mind and that's okay. And then if it feels expansive and really like new thoughts are coming in and new ways of thinking, then you're probably in that gap. You're in that place where universal consciousness.

Ashley (32:46.659)
Yeah, I love everything you just said. I think it's so important to say that, you know, the default mode of the mind, the busyness of the mind, the desperation of the mind is completely normal. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what the mind does. And so there is kind of an acceptance that we can get when we start noticing that and we have that awareness. And then really be easy with ourselves in terms

of this idea of letting go. I think this has just taken me a long time. That's why I'm bringing it up. Like be easy with it because it's hard to let go of what's familiar. It's hard to let go of patterns that we've been carrying for a really long time and convince ourselves to move into new territory on purpose, right? We can have these experiences. I mean, I noticed this as a therapist is that people would often come in in crisis.

And it was because life was throwing them into new territory. It was not something that they chose. And but that was really exciting work because they were opening up to something new, but not really by their choice. Part of why I say it takes a lot of courage to come on Silent Retreat is because it's a choice. You know, both whether you know consciously or unconsciously, you know that you're

you're opening up to new territory. You're going to be uncomfortable. You're going to be moving out of the familiar territory of the mind and or you want that, you know. So this is one of those sort of spiritual inquiries, I think, that we can do is saying, you know, well, what does that mean? And is that what we want? And really owning it, owning this

idea of seeing the mind, what it's doing, accepting it, and you said it earlier, then that gives you a choice, you know? That really gives you a choice. But there's that, there's so much in between noticing what the mind is doing and then having a choice. There's like, you have to really like let go of some of these very deep patterns.

Ashley (35:11.629)
in the mind and I just want to say how much compassion, you know, as I'm getting ready to host this retreat, I do get a lot of compassion coming in for the people who are choosing to come and also for myself because I never know what comes up on retreat. There's always stuff for me that's still, you know, so I'm also stepping in into that space, into that unknown and you know, now I think it's mostly exciting. I can't wait to see what comes up, but that's taken me a long time.

to be excited about discomfort, you know, or to be willing to feel discomfort because I know what the reward is. There is a reward for that willingness to be uncomfortable.

Nate (35:56.867)
Yeah. There's something cool there that I think we're stumbling upon. And I feel like I've heard someone talk about this, but I can't pull it up right now. But it's, it's an idea that an alternative way of accessing this stuff is kind of what we're talking about here, which is like reverse engineering the environment or the atmosphere or your circumstances to

bring about a ripe opportunity for new thinking. And so for sure, Silent Retreat is absolutely gonna do that. I that's a big, know, or like a walkabout or a sweat in a sweat lodge. Like those are big ones. But I think for all practical purposes, we can also just bring these down to like micro levels and just think, you know, these are good reasons to.

drive to the store on a different road, to hike a different trail, to order something different at Starbucks, whatever it is. it's not just that you're... It's doing those things differently and then it's also reminding yourself, I'm doing this differently because I'm presenting my soul and my bigger consciousness with an opportunity to experience something new because...

I do believe that kind of our one of our core reasons that we're here on earth in incarnated is to expand and is to have new things happen. And we're in this constant tension with the mind, with the kind of default mind and the soul, the soul is like, let's do new things. Let's have new experiences, good, bad, we don't care. Let's just expand. And it gets plenty of that just through

New circumstances being rehashed through the default mode. But you could also choose to really push yourself and like, okay, if I do things different and then I can also, again, now we're talking second level thinking, I'm aware that now I'm presenting myself with a new opportunity and a new chance to be fresh, to be new. You I think about this as we're coming up on over a year of moving from California to New York.

Nate (38:22.176)
And that was one of the most profound aspects of the whole entire move was my wife and I looking at each other saying, nobody here knows who we are. We can be new people. It's just like, that is insane. Like we don't get those opportunities and just that kind of excitement. There was a piece of us that was afraid. And then there was also a bigger piece of us. was like, yes, expand, do new things and do things.

differently whenever you get the chance. I guess I'm just trying to bring in that practical aspect of like, okay, all of what we're talking about and the spiritual and the big kind of concepts are great, but how do we bring this to a grounded thing? Like have moments that you're building in throughout your day where you're giving yourself an opportunity to be different, new, to react in a completely different way. then,

guess what? That's your input into the world. And guess the output that you get back is going to be different, which is really cool because that's how things change.

Ashley (39:25.645)
Yeah, totally, totally. And just to say that, you know, if you're somebody who really likes comfort and you don't have any interest in this, then that's absolutely okay. I think for most of us who are going to be in this conversation, it's there's like that deeper call that shows up and you can ignore it and ignore it and ignore it, but it just gets louder and louder and louder. Then you find yourself

moving to New York from California. You know, it's almost like there's some deeper aspect in us that is pushing us forward. And all we're talking about, can't make that. That's the mystery. That's the mystery, right? Like for you, answering that call meant moving across the country. For me, it meant quitting a 25-year career, you know, making this big shift.

You can't control that, what's gonna arise, but you can open the doors. You can decide, okay, I'm not gonna resist this. I actually want to wake up. I don't wanna be asleep. But people who stay in sort of that familiar addictive comfort mode, there's also nothing wrong with that. They just probably aren't listening to this podcast. It's like, this is a particular path when you are

called to unravel your conditioned way of being. And there's so much exciting aspects of it. But I think why we wanted to do the podcast is because it also is scary and hard and challenging and nuanced. And there's always things to learn and practice. And I learned a couple of things in this conversation that are actually going to really help me.

on this retreat tomorrow. I'm, you know, there's just always so much here when we open up these topics. I love it. I love hearing your stories and your articulation. It really helps me.

Nate (41:38.802)
Yeah, I love that idea that we're soul explorers, right? Those are the things that get us excited. It's like, how can we just get more curious, push the limits, try to know more, try to be more, all of that. It's a fun place to swim in and it isn't for everybody. And that's totally fine. for some of us,

It's the thing that gets us excited and then that's a really cool place to be because in an infinite universe there's... you can't get bored.

Ashley (42:18.787)
Yeah, totally. And also, like, it just made me think to say that...

You know, this path of unraveling, this path of awakening is really to come home to your true nature. What is that? It's different for all of us. You know, there's the discovery of authentic self and our authentic living, authentic impulse. You know, it's really, really enlivening and amazing. And it's opening up for so many more people right now. And there's probably a good reason for that.

Because my suspicion is that as we open more and more, we're opening up to better health, better well-being, more compassionate relationship with self, more compassionate relationship with each other, more consciousness around your own footprint, your own actions in the world, that there's so much that changes as we come home to our true nature just automatically.

that solves a lot of these problems that we identify things we identify as problems in our lives, you know, our health issues or difficulty in our wellbeing, let's just say, you know, in general, all these different factors and, this, this, just this path of coming home to the truth of who you are is, is sort of this all encompassing

roadmap to well-being, I think. I don't know. What do you think about that?

Nate (44:03.124)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. mean, this is what you're describing right now is the glow you see on your participants at the end of your session. It's the glow of reuniting or re-remembering, it isn't even the right word. It's just integration. It's just coming back into the wholeness of who you always are. And it's like when you get, when you can,

release some of the shackles of modern society and all of the stuff that's there that kind of can inhibit our full embodiment of our soul. Then, and you come back into alignment, then it's just like you look at the world different, you look different, you've got a glow, you've got a bounce in your step, and that, it's so true that it's not doing anything.

just it's not getting in the way of it and it's letting it all kind of come back together. And the reason it doesn't matter if you do the work or don't do the work, when you die, you're gonna step right back into it anyways. What we're calling for and what I think a lot of great spiritual teachers are encouraging is you don't have to be embodied and be separate. You can be embodied and be in harmonious alignment and step into wholeness and

being embodied then becomes this fantastical journey when there's like all these luscious embodied experiences that we get to have and feel our true power and essence as like an embodied and actualized person.

Nate (45:52.598)
It's a small goal, Ashley. you know, I just, just little things.

Ashley (45:55.055)
It's just a small girl. And it only requires surrendering everything you thought was keeping you safe and secure.

Nate (46:02.188)
Yeah. But we believe in everyone. We know you can do it.

Ashley (46:10.544)
That's probably a good place to end today. I love where this went. Thanks for all your insight.

Nate (46:12.462)
Yeah.

Nate (46:19.032)
Yeah, that was fun. Thanks for bringing it up.

Ashley (46:21.549)
Yeah. All right. Until next time.

Nate (46:24.014)
Okay.