The Ineffable Journey of Spiritual Awakening

In this episode of Spiritual Unraveling, hosts Ashley and Nate delve into the concept of ineffability in spirituality, exploring the challenges of understanding enlightenment and the role of the mind in meditation. They discuss the importance of surrendering to silence, the influence of the ego, and the journey of trust in connecting to a greater frequency of existence. Through personal experiences and insights, they highlight the transformative power of meditation and the necessity of allowing oneself to be present in the moment.

Transcript

Nate (00:02.242)

Welcome everyone to Spiritual Unraveling with Ashley and Nate. How's it going, Ash?

Ashley Henderson (00:08.91)

Pretty good, how are you?

Nate (00:10.933)

I'm doing well. So today's episode is, it's gonna be interesting. We're loosely thinking that the topic is ineffability or the ineffability of spirit or kind of the hard or loose way that we try to wrap our head around enlightenment or those kind of topics. And so,

We're gonna do our best to handle some kind of amorphous topics that are kind of at the heart or the center of spiritual awakening. And this was all coming out of the idea that Ashley just returned from silent retreat. So do you wanna pause real quick?

Ashley Henderson (01:05.565)

Yeah, want to, it seems like she got distracted, but if she starts up again, I'm going to have to let her out. The door is open. She's just wanting, but she's just licking herself right now. She's distracted. Okay.

Nate (01:12.49)

Okay.

Nate (01:17.109)

Okay. Okay, so the reason they were thinking about this topic really is because Ashley just closed this last weekend. She had a silent retreat and it was, as most silent retreats are, sounds like amazing when I get to hear about them. And some of the things that came out of that were just these talking about some of these big subjects. And since I wasn't there and I don't want to butcher it, I'm just gonna...

pass the torch over to you, Ash, kind of set us up or bring us into why we're talking about this today.

Ashley Henderson (01:53.772)

Well, it's always such a major learning experience for me. I just get so much from Retreat. A big, and this was no different, it had all of its beautiful lessons and growth opportunities. One thing that I've been sort of playing with for the last few years,

is the teaching aspect of retreat and so the conceptual aspect of it because the real invitation on a silent retreat is really to surrender to the silence, let's say. That's one way of saying it. And what does that even mean? Surrender to the silence, right? It's all sort of vague. It's, you know, the invitation is to go into the unknown.

into the mystery, where there's actually like no concepts. And so it's always so it's been sort of part of my path as I'm as I've been, you know, inviting people on to retreat, inviting people into the silence, because I got so much from that I've I've grown so much from from stepping into that space that

I've, you know, sort of sitting in more of the leadership seat, I've been wondering like, what's the teaching and what's the whole, how do I hold that piece? And, and I really got it on this retreat. I really, well, I did, I get it. I got another, another piece of it, I guess I would say. Just in, in how little, this is going to be, you know, it's like how little.

role the mind has in meditation. mean, the mind doesn't really have a role in meditation. The mind doesn't really have a job to do in enlightenment or presence or beingness. mean, it could take a back seat, I would say. could have a back seat. It could be like in the wings. It might have things, some things to do, but it isn't the main player. And I think just

Ashley Henderson (04:15.916)

that piece of letting go of the mind as being the main dictator, the main controller, the main manager of an experience to allow sort of this mystery, the spaciousness, this silence, this presence to sort of be the main.

the main experience, is just if it's a real challenge. mean, but I think that's the teaching. That's the challenge of retreat and the, and, and the deep benefit of the deep benefits of that, you know, and not even the benefits of that, not even in concepts. Like I could, I could conceptually tell, tell you the benefit of spending time in silence, in true presence, you know,

But the coolest part about it is that is available for everybody. Silence is available for everybody. Presence is available for everybody. Enlightenment is available for everybody. it only exists in your experience of it. It actually doesn't even exist in concepts. That's not a thing.

Nate (05:31.547)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (05:38.314)

You know, the teaching on retreat are just these pointers and pointers and pointers to this ineffable place that there are no words for. We can try with presence and spaciousness and silence and grounded and all these things, you know, but it's very, very confusing for the mind to really get a grasp on it. And that's the point.

Nate (06:07.492)

Right.

Ashley Henderson (06:07.596)

That's the point. so, yeah, what it brings up for people is confusion and frustration and emotions and out of control. It brings up a lot for people to start to make the transition. And then eventually, people start talking about quiet and peace and love and

Nate (06:25.762)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (06:35.808)

openheartedness and you know, there's like, gosh, all this, this other stuff arises too in that space. So anyway, I could probably go on and on, but just like how this whole thing is meant to bring you out of those concepts and out of really understanding anything from the mind, you know, it's a...

Tough invitation for people, I think. And it definitely was for me 100%. I was just like, this is so hard. I did not understand it for a very long time.

Nate (07:18.017)

Yeah, well we're not really equipped, at least culturally, we're not really equipped to do things other than from the mind. The mind, mentalism, has dominated Western culture for at least the last two or three hundred years, for sure, being very much entrenched. Yeah, and it's, my fascination with this, when we were talking about this subject, is I was listening to someone who,

was kind of delivering this brief but poignant channeled message where this person was bringing through an angel and the angel was saying, you cannot learn spirituality. You cannot bend spirituality with the mind. You cannot try to grasp these concepts and move yourself into presence or enlightenment or knowing. It is a process of

of letting go of any expectations of trusting that when you have had a learning or an experience, it literally like seeps into all aspects of your being, your body, your soul, your auric field, all of it. And then you just, and then it needs to sit and you can't speed it up by reading another book or watching another lecture series or attending another

course or whatever, it is just something that is going to naturally happen. And what's so frustrating about this for those of us who get caught up in our mind is that the mind will tell you the lie, unfortunately, that if you keep spending time in the brain working this problem out,

you're gonna eventually figure spirituality out. It's the biggest weird kind of snake eating its own tail thing where it's like it will never end because the mind just likes to be busy and it wants to control and it's trying to keep you safe and there's nothing wrong with the mind, we've talked about this, but it's not gonna be where you find that access point. That access point is gonna be in silence, it's gonna be in your body, it's gonna be in nature, it's gonna be...

Nate (09:42.609)

It's gonna be an ease and in flow and in surrender. It's not gonna be in grinding and thinking and having all of these things. yeah, it's such a weird contradiction because we have this equipment upstairs that is just so ready and willing and able to start working on problems. it's like, but it's not even worth, it's like your brain is doing math and spirituality is like a completely different subject.

It's like you're never gonna get that answer from this thing or you know, don't know if that's the best analogy but I think you understand what I'm saying. It's just you're not gonna get there from there and the the that in F ability that we're talking about is is the Acknowledgement that this stuff has its own time It has its own way and that the the only real work for us if you want to even call it work

is probably not the best word, but is to allow. Is to allow and trust that this is your natural state and that if you lean into that more and more, you're more likely to start seeing it show up in your life.

Ashley Henderson (10:59.886)

Totally. You know, that was great. You know, I was just thinking that the best part of discovering that natural state is the absence of the ego. And the hardest part about discovering that natural state is the absence of the ego. You the ego doesn't like it because it doesn't have a place there. And so I think it's also really

hard to avoid on the spiritual path, like to avoid bringing the ego in. The ego wants in and it's not like even a negative thing. It's just an is-ness thing, which is the ego wants in. But as soon as the ego gets in, it's no longer your natural state because it's I mean, the natural state, let's just I like that phrase because it's

not a very woo woo thing to say, like your natural state, you know, like a baby or a dog maybe is in a natural state, right? They don't have like this kind of egoic, like self-reflective, I've got to manage my identity type of thing, you know? And when we hit those moments, we feel free. And we feel free simply because of the absence of the egoic state. I mean, we don't even know that most of the time.

Where does freedom come from? Why does it feel free? It feels free from the ego's grip on it. And because the ego is limiting and the natural state is so everything that has everything in it, it's so spacious, it's not limiting at all. So it feels free. It feels peaceful. It feels spacious. And then the ego wants to come in. And so a lot of the path is really seeing that.

It's just seeing that and you can't see it until you have some space from it. And so that's the sitting in the quiet. That's why I love silent retreat. It's like deep dive in the deep end of silence to give yourself enough time to start to observe. this is what my mind is doing. This is how my mind wants to hijack every moment. Or this is how my mind is telling me that I'm a piece of crap all the time.

Ashley Henderson (13:19.17)

you know, is judging everybody else or is defending or protecting or, know, has all these really, really important jobs to manage our, chaos of childhood before we understand anything. But it's, it's now we're, in this place where we can see it's limiting our experience of the present moment of our true nature. And so I think that's like the really challenging part of spirituality is, is

Wrestling, for me it feels like wrestling, for somebody else it might not feel like wrestling, but for me I always feel like I get in these wrestling matches with these parts of myself because they seem so important. know, it's like they seem so important until I really start to see through it I'm like, well, maybe I don't need that anymore, you know, so.

Nate (14:03.874)

You

Nate (14:15.223)

Yeah, I have a funny relationship with the way that I kind of reconcile that stuff is that I feel like the ego, it's just has two, it is literally an overeager employee. It's taken on way too many duties. It's like, that's not your job. You're not supposed to be in every aspect of my being. The way that I conceptualize the ego and the egoic mind in kind of art.

our earthly existence is that it is the part of you that looks at what has happened and creates preferences. It says, like that, I didn't like that. It's like a discerner. It likes to categorize experiences and when we do that, I like this, I don't like that, what that does, in my opinion, is that it's the fuel back into the universe of law of attraction. It's creating

this, well I want this reality because I don't like this thing. When you know what you don't want, you know what you do want and it's kind of like that's the piece of it that's so beautiful and that's why the ego should never, in my opinion, the ego should never be destroyed. When people start talking like that, I'm like that's not it man. The game is a 3D game. You lose the ego when you die and then your spirit and your...

you're enjoying it and apparently you want to come back because you keep doing it. So there must be some value to the ego, right? And I think it is in that, in that defining of preferences and figuring things out. But that is a limited role in the, in, in the more we can kind of safely and healthily define that role for the ego and then tell it gently, you know, you're good. We don't need you for

every single thing and move back into presence, then we start to become a little bit more balanced, right? And it's like the, think where we feel the pain is that the ego is just taking on way too many kind of duties and the brain will just keep saying, yes, yeah, we'll just keep taking stuff in and taking on duties, keep you safe, quote unquote safe. And it,

Nate (16:37.27)

crushes the kind of It's like it squeezes all the life out of experiences, you know, you you had you shared this beautiful moment I hope it's okay. I'm gonna share it a little and then you can go on it where Having the meta moment of creating a narrative of an experience While you're in an experience and you had said does that ever happen to him like all the time like that's one of the ways The ego has overstepped It's creating

a narrative while you're trying to be present. And the experience is the ineffable thing that's happening and it's soaking in through all of your senses and your feeling and you're getting all these kind of things. And then the brain or the ego jumps in and it was like, well, let's start figuring out the story that we're going to tell people about this. you just, that's kind of the, that's a perfect example of overstepping its role. So I don't know. What do you think about that?

Ashley Henderson (17:35.746)

Well, yeah, I was telling you about this experience I had on the retreat where I had gotten just really dropped into a pretty quiet place. And so it was really noticeable to me when this part of my mind just came on board, started telling stories, like stories about what was happening on the retreat or different things. And it was really noticeable to me.

And so I just engaged with it. I just kind of brought it in and was like, what are you doing here? A storyteller? Like what's your job? And I asked it, are you protecting me from something? Because I had been working with these other protector, protections and seeing it as protection actually really opens up a lot of the root of some of our, these parts of ourselves that are active.

And so I said, are you protecting me from something? And it said, yes. And I was like, okay, what are you protecting it? What are you protecting me from? And this storyteller part of my mind said, total annihilation. And I just loved that. And I, and I spent the rest of the meditation, just letting myself surrender into total annihilation. And to me, how I interpret total annihilation is you are not any of your stories. Like,

Nate (18:59.635)

.

Ashley Henderson (18:59.95)

you no longer exist as the story of you, you're just the raw experience of what you just said, being in your body, your senses, this moment to moment present experience. To me, there was something in that there was total annihilation meant that Ashley didn't exist. The story of Ashley didn't exist, just this like experiencer was there. And it was pure bliss, man. It was like what I imagine death is. There's pure bliss in that.

Nate (19:21.031)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (19:29.818)

so, but, but, but, but the other aspect of that, that was kind of cool that that kind of came was this idea of storytelling, storytelling kind of showing up at, let's see that, that there's also a really beautiful space in our 3d existence. Like I love that you said that where stories, stories are beautiful and storytelling is really

Nate (19:56.241)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (19:57.966)

important, it's an important part of living with other humans and in community and even telling yourself a story can be so satisfying. But what came through was, but can it be released? You know, is it a story that needs to now get kind of retold over and over again to seek safety? Is it something you're holding onto out of fear? You know, all these things, or is it story that can just be

experienced and released like a song or something or some other piece of art. I loved that. I love, because I love stories. But yeah, really, saw in that moment, I really saw the storyteller that wanted to hide. It almost felt like hijacking. It's like a hijacker of this present moment experience that was actually really beautiful and peaceful. yeah.

Nate (20:29.211)

Yeah.

Nate (20:52.715)

Yeah. Well, I want to jump in there because you have, there's a really beautiful thing. There's a lot there. One is, I want to just highlight that when the storyteller came in, we've talked about this, you're going to recognize this word if you've listened to our podcast before. Instead of being judgmental, you were curious, right? And so this is like, this is a small,

This is a moment you had, but this is actually a meta principle. When you start identifying when the ego is coming in or when the storyteller or when a part of your brain is doing that, what you did actually is great, which is like engage it a little. Get curious what's going on there and kind of figure it out instead of just being frustrated with it or judging it or more importantly, probably judging yourself as like I'm not a good meditator.

because now the storyteller showed up and is hijacking my story. So that part is awesome. I also really like, you hadn't mentioned this, but you'd mentioned it me off before we started, which is the realization in the moment of, that you kind of said to the storyteller, which is like, I know that when I go to tell this story, the information is gonna be there. I don't need you rehearsing it for me when I'm trying to be present.

Right? Which is also this like interesting way. It's like talking to a child, right? You're like, it's okay, I understand what you're doing, but I don't need that to happen because it's going to be okay. I won't forget about this thing. And so it's just this really, it's such a gentler and more forgiving and grace-filled way. And I'm sure

of kind of engaging the mind and the ego. And I think one of the things that we can point to is one, that you've been doing the work, you have a rapport with this part of you. But also just, that is the power and the invitation of intentionally carving out silence so that you, all of these things would be subtle. The narrator can jump in.

Nate (23:15.199)

in the midst of your day and you might not even know what's happening. You just start creating narratives and you're going and you're in your story. I how many of us have experienced that where it's like someone cuts you off or you're in a line and you see something in a grocery store, you're doing something and you start immediately going into story. You might not even be aware on a second or third level that you're doing that until later or you might not even be at all. But that's the power of a tool like meditation or silent retreat where

it makes all of that stuff a lot easier to access because there's just so much less input coming in. So there's, yeah, there's stuff there for you.

Ashley Henderson (23:54.488)

Totally. I'm so glad you said all of that because this was another aspect of this experience that happens in meditation and in self-inquiry. It can happen in therapy. It can happen in any kind of self-realization modality, but it really happened in this moment because the moment that I was

quiet enough to really identify the storyteller, I realized that this storyteller had been a part of my experience of my existence for my whole life. I I just can't remember. I can't remember life before the storyteller was there. But I had never, ever interacted with it directly. I had never brought it in close to understand it.

or question it or be with it. And so there was this other outcome of this where when we recognize and see and instead of trying to get rid of or judge or fix or solve when we're just curious and welcoming, there's a beautiful intimacy that happens because whether you

reject these parts of yourself or you welcome them in, they're there. And they're either rejected or they're welcomed. You know, and so the welcoming, the opening to it, the curiosity, the learning from it, it has a place at the table now. Like it's part of me. There's just this feeling of, I mean, I think this is what it is. It's like you coming back into wholeness, you're

Nate (25:25.13)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (25:49.654)

you're feeling like you have parts of yourself now closer in and you feel more almost grounded or something or integrated. Thank you. Yeah. So that was another beautiful outcome of that particular moment on the retreat of inviting that part in. And I've had a lot of those experiences, but I had the awareness

Nate (26:01.086)

Yeah. Integrated. Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (26:19.112)

afterwards that, wow, just, that felt so intimate. What an intimate moment with a part of myself that I had never, you know, experienced before. So.

Nate (26:31.526)

Yeah, and to tie it back to kind of what we're talking about, you know, we're doing a good job, you're doing a great job of bringing words to this experience, but in the moment you were sitting with that whole experience of the storyteller, of asking questions, of curiosity, that's all subtle energy. That's like, none of that is really tangible and even

It's beautiful, you know, I we we're humans and we use words to to create meaning and to relate to one another. But there is also I was saying it's like water through the hands or sands through the hands. When you start describing this stuff, a little bit of it is left behind because so much of it is this kind of like it's that experience. It's that kind of the the body sensations you are having, the expansion of your spirit, the the

engaging and you know you were you were engaging with your ego and your and your bigger your higher self in this really unique way that was also totally yours and so that's that's kind of what we're talking about here is that this the stuff is it's just a little bit hard you know as soon as we start categorizing it in a way

We're perpetuating the mind and the ego in the kind of filtering and deciphering that the brain likes to do. There's nothing wrong with it because I think through this conversation and these words that we're using, it points to or can kind of hint at these feeling states that we're talking about.

it's with a bit of caution, because we're using words that we are talking about something that is really just a felt experience, you know? And I guess the other thing I want to say on top of all of this and in and around this whole conversation is that this stuff actually isn't difficult, it's just different. This is a way that you're...

Nate (28:59.619)

your relationship to presence and to allowing and to flow. It's not hard, it's just different. I don't know really know what to say. mean, the thing that says it's hard is actually the discerning part of your brain that's trying to categorize because hard is a categorization, right? It can't be any of those things. It has to just be. so it's again, I'm moving back into that. As soon as I start using words, it's a little hard to grasp.

Ashley Henderson (29:14.84)

Thank you.

Ashley Henderson (29:28.866)

Yeah.

Nate (29:28.962)

So I don't know, I just wanted to point that part out too though.

Ashley Henderson (29:32.11)

Well, you know, it's interesting. I was thinking about it this morning that, you know, when I, when I was younger, I took Spanish. I took Spanish in school. took Spanish in middle school, high school and college. I minored in it. But when I was in college, I lived in Ecuador. And for a big part of the time that I was there, I lived with people that didn't speak English.

And as much as time as I had spent in school learning that this word means this word and everything, the way that I really learned how to speak Spanish was being sort of forced to try to wrangle some words together and meaning when I was with people that I really cared about, I really had developed, you know, these beautiful relationships with and I couldn't communicate in my own language. I had to sort of

Nate (30:19.694)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (30:28.396)

really put effort in. was effort there to try to, you know, learn this language. a beautiful way of learning it was just observing, you know, them speaking in different scenarios, different situations, maybe taking it in not so much mentally, this word means this word, and doing the translation in my mind, but start to really like get the transmission of like, when you're waiting for the bus, this is what you say or something. You know what I mean? Like if you want to tell somebody,

Nate (30:56.801)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (30:58.04)

hey, wait up, you you just start to get the language in a different kind of way comes in. And then I remember, you know, kind of three fourths of the way into my time living there, I would have dreams in Spanish, my dreams would be in Spanish. And I would, I was just so like, you know, amazed by that, that there was a part of me that like knew Spanish, like, was like some part of me already knew.

this language, had it taken it in enough that it knew it and it could speak it seamlessly, you know, easily in my dreams. but but in order to really drop into that, I would have had to drop out of the mind. I would have had to drop out of the translator. Right. You just have to almost like let go into this other part of you that already knows. But maybe your your mind, you know, that mental efforting is like.

The mental efforting gets you to a place where you can release the efforter and just sort of like drift into like, I might not get all the words right, but you know, I know some things, you know? And that's kind of what it feels like. It feels like to me that there's a certain amount of efforting. There's a certain amount of, you know, trying to understand from the mind this stuff, but the real bang for your buck is gonna be when you let go of all that stuff and...

Nate (32:05.664)

Mm-hmm.

Nate (32:21.141)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (32:21.326)

and really just drop into this part of you that knows. And we're just coming home to this part of you that already knows. And it's already there for all of us to let go into, to surrender into. And we've been so conditioned away from it, just so conditioned away from it, wildly conditioned away from it. Most of us living in this Western culture, we're nowhere near

Nate (32:36.32)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (32:51.488)

nature, the ways that maybe more indigenous cultures or ancient cultures understood our connection with the earth and the cosmos. We're just so far from that. And so this pathway of surrender and letting go of the mind, it just takes practice. It takes some effort. And then ultimately, takes some point

of permission. At some point, the ego, the mind, the body, the person says, okay, it's safe enough to surrender to this other part of me that already knows. And that just can only come when it comes. You cannot make that come. For me, there's such delight sometimes when I see somebody give themselves permission to let go. It's so

Nate (33:22.26)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (33:50.794)

Amazing. But there's no way to make any of that happen. That's the point. has to just sort of appear. That permission appears. And then the journey shifts because now you have permission. And maybe there's a second phase of seeking where you're like, I know this thing. yeah, it happens in surrender. Can we practice surrendering, surrendering, surrendering? And then it's just there. It's more available.

It's just more available, it's easier to drop into. And you can just start living there and seeing life from this other place. And you can look back on your conditioned mind and be like, whoa, that, really had it wrong. That's not really what this is about, you know? And not from a developmental place, but just from this kind of like wonder and awe. Yeah.

Nate (34:18.087)

Yeah.

Nate (34:36.669)

Yeah.

Nate (34:44.337)

Yeah, acknowledgement really. Yeah, the two words that were popping out for me when you were describing that was, what you were just talking about, like is the permission is also just the trust, right? It's the trust that even though this process in this energetic field and all of this stuff is not apparent to us in our 3D mind,

Ashley Henderson (34:46.658)

Yeah, acknowledgement.

Nate (35:14.66)

I trust that it's the underlying connective field to all of us. And when I think about that, and I was thinking about you talking about the Spanish language, and we're talking about ephemera, and we're trying to figure these words out, also another word that came up to me was like essence. You know, there's the essence of these teachings and these knowings. like, it is really like a transmission.

to bring it back to kind of 3D to just kind of prove a point is it's, you know, I walk outside and get into my car and go do tasks or go do whatever and I turn the radio on and I never think about from walking to my car, from walking to my house in my car that I'm being bombarded by radio waves, that every single frequency has a different like amazing song on it. And I'm literally walking through it.

but I can't see it, I can't perceive it, I cannot feel it, and yet it's there. And it is, if you can tune it to the right thing, and you have the receiver dialed in the right way, this whole world opens up. And I know people have talked about this for a long time, this is a great metaphor for it, but it's like, that is a bit of the trust. Like, before you knew the radio waves were there, and before you had the receiver, there were still waves.

There were still cosmic waves running through us, you know? And I think at this time on the planet, we are in the process of creating a radio. You know, I think we are fine tuning ourselves and at some point soon, there's gonna be a massive amount of people who are gonna start receiving these transmissions and it's gonna fricking change everything. And I think...

were in this process of how do we gently guide people or help people who are curious. Nobody can really get you there or open the door for you, but we can help show how it worked for us and maybe here's some other things that we know can increase the chances or likelihood of this.

Ashley Henderson (37:38.326)

Yeah, that's like actually probably a great place to end. Like the idea that this is all for picking up a different signal. And, you know, we I can't tell you what signal you're going to pick up because we're all our own individual radios and we're tuned in. We're all connected, right? There is like this bigger frequency. I do think that the

Maybe that's what the whole thing is for, this ineffability. I'll just share this. Last night in my in-person sangha, there's a man who's been meditating for 30 years. He's a long-term meditator. And he said this funny thing last night. It was not that funny, but he said, maybe meditation is all just for me to be a nicer person or something like that. And I was laughing. was like, that's a really simple way of saying it. There are these just like,

really powerful, powerful benefits. Because if you think about it, meditation just was there to help you be a little more patient, a little kinder, think about each one of those choices and how that sets off a whole new set of experiences for you and everybody in your life and then all the people in their lives. you know what I It's just like, it's like you start to tune into this like, you know, massive, massive

Nate (38:52.597)

Mm hmm.

Ashley Henderson (39:11.266)

I don't know, one woman on the retreat was saying like, she felt like we were all just like these bubbles that had joined together and become this massive bubbles, you know, all connected. And if one person popped, we were all going to pop. It's like, yeah, you really start to see your, your place here. Like your, your, I don't know, you know, like what, what are you emitting on your radio frequency? You know? So, so anyway, I just, I like that the, I like kind of ending on

Nate (39:21.706)

Mm-hmm.

Nate (39:31.585)

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (39:41.838)

There's something about going into the mystery to discover.

your connection to all that is and you just can't do it from the mind.

Nate (40:01.151)

I think the mind, and to keep this analogy going, I the mind has us believing there's only one station, or there's only one channel, and it's not true. And this ineffability is realizing that there's so many different frequencies you could receive and emit, and it's time for us to start taking back control over that and to have some kind of relationship with that so that we can broaden

horizons at the very least and maybe I won't deny that I have aspirations that it will enrich people's lives. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, cool. Do you feel like we covered it? As much as we can. All right, tune in next time everybody.

Ashley Henderson (40:38.67)

But the very least be a nicer person.

Ashley Henderson (40:49.39)

I think we did. Yep, we're done.

Okay, bye.