Finding Freedom Through Humility

In this conversation, Nate and Ashley delve into the concept of humility, exploring its relationship with ego death, acceptance, and vulnerability. They discuss how humility can be a painful yet liberating experience, emphasizing the importance of grace and community in navigating this journey. The dialogue also touches on the challenges of perfectionism, the role of self-reflection, and the healing power of sharing experiences in circles. Ultimately, they highlight the significance of recognizing our place in the world and the neutrality of life as a pathway to deeper understanding and connection.

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Ashley Henderson (00:01.537)

I was thinking about humility as the experience of ego death.

Nate (00:19.96)

Yeah, that kind of makes sense, that tracks.

Ashley Henderson (00:21.269)

Because I went to church on Sunday, and I think there's a certain amount of religious humility, which it's close, but it's not the same, which is admit that you're a sinner. You admit that you're basically.

Ashley Henderson (00:45.917)

a bad person, maybe? And that you're seeking redemption from this outside thing called God, you know? And then feeling like there is unconditional love outside of you for all of your sins or whatever that part of your person. I don't know enough about Christianity to really say it. I want to like say something that's not true, but there is something about like

Nate (01:11.477)

You

Ashley Henderson (01:15.009)

humility in the eyes of just being sort of putting your tail between your legs and asking for redemption. Right. And so I think nobody likes that form of humility. Nobody. I mean, not nobody, you know, I think in what we're doing, like there's there's a there's like a different quality to it, which is actually about embracing the parts of you that just aren't

in alignment with your truth. But that can be really hard because those parts of you were born.

to protect you. And they're hard to let go of, and they're hard to see, because there can be an aspect of humiliation when you bump into them. so humiliation is part of it.

Nate (02:10.751)

Yeah, I think when we were talking about the kind of Judeo-Christian thing, think where it gets a little bit, it can get a little bit tricky for you and I is that there's an aspect of judgment that comes in in right and wronging and a lot of shame, I think, and guilt and separation that at least I can speak to that as kind of a recovering.

person from those faiths, that that is something that I'm actively trying to shed, but I don't think that the word humility needs to be jettisoned. I think it's just a recontextualizing. I think what you're, as you were saying that it's kind of making me think about it as an acknowledgement of the human condition. That when we come,

we come to earth and we kind of all have made this agreement that we are going to stumble around and make a mess and have all this stuff happen to experience all the ups and downs in life and also hopefully walk our way back to remembering our wholeness and our divinity. And that process is humbling.

and there's humility in it. And I think that the acknowledgement of that should come as a relief and give yourself a little break, not as a judgment or a shaming, like you're not good enough. It's more of an acknowledgement of our humanness in that we are

you know, working our way back to wholeness. And that is kind of what, at least that's my belief, that that's what the human experience is all about and that there's so much beauty in that. That's kind of what creates the ups and downs. Yeah, so those kind of my thoughts.

Ashley Henderson (04:26.069)

Yeah, the container for humility is like, yeah, it can't, I mean.

Ashley Henderson (04:42.923)

Like the ultimate experience of humility is acceptance of that humanity. It's not of judgment. If you're in judgment, you're just re-

sort of invigorating the rejection or whatever. So I think that, but my experience of the universe or whatever life, I'll say life orchestrating me to come into humility has been a brutal.

can feel brutal at times because there's a reckoning with unconscious aspects of yourself that have been operating out of alignment that you have to reckon with. You just have to go through the process of seeing and understanding and feeling and grieving. And then there's like a moment, like I can think of a moment for me

of being in a really, really difficult experience of coming to a moment where I was like, this is humility and it's freedom. Like, you know what I mean? Just right on the other side of releasing an aspect of the ego is this feeling of freedom, but it's hard. That's like a hard process, I think. So I think like you just,

I think if we can hold that process in a container of unconditional love, it's going to make it a lot easier. If we understand the process in terms of spiritual awakening. But if we're not and we go through those moments, probably mean most people are rewounding themselves.

Ashley Henderson (06:48.917)

You know, when life gives you an opportunity to experience humility, you may not take it.

because it can feel like a crisis that needs to be fixed or something rather than an opening to letting go.

Nate (07:07.864)

Gosh, so many things are like that, right? Where they're, what feels like a crisis is also an invitation in an opening. And I think the other thing that was, that feels kind of hard about humility is.

There's an amount of control and fear that needs to get released in humility saying there's parts of this journey and there's parts of this that are unknown to me. And they're unknown on purpose. It's like your soul has actually done it to you. They're like, no, no, we want this to unravel for you. And part of that process is being in the unknown.

Ashley Henderson (07:41.877)

Yes.

Nate (07:55.775)

and that brings up those kind of egoic human things around wanting to always be in control and having lot of fear of the unknown. So that's kind of how humility, I think, can get a bad rap is because it really rubs up against those two. And I think maybe one of the things that we can think about with it is pairing humility, always thinking about it as having the dance partner of grace.

whenever humility is on the dance floor, is the partner. it's like, because you're bringing that part of you up, as soon as you feel kind of the unknown and the kind of clenchiness that comes up around all of that, then you can just say, but grace is here to say, it's okay, you don't need to do this right. Be easy. Stumbling through is, onto the new path is just kind of how you find a new path.

Ashley Henderson (08:57.281)

Like Grace being the dance partner of vulnerability, Grace being the dance partner of humility. That's beautiful. I love that. I love

Nate (09:07.916)

just lets you off the hook so much. That control and the fear tends to take on just so much space in your psyche. And so just coming in with something gentler is much easier.

Ashley Henderson (09:09.889)

Totally.

Ashley Henderson (09:13.931)

Totally.

Ashley Henderson (09:21.697)

Well, told me. Right. even just grace as the the permission to not know. It's like, you know, even bringing that into your your conscious practices.

Nate (09:30.742)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (09:41.543)

of opening up to not knowing, sort of starts to unravel the controller in a conscious way, in a more, maybe easier, easeful way than when we come up against it out of resistance or when we're sort of forced into it. I mean, I think I've been cursed and blessed many times in my life to be

quite humbled and those are really the most.

powerful experiences because

They have.

Ashley Henderson (10:28.521)

allowed me to see the ways that I was limiting myself through an ego identity or control or something like that, but that can be very hard to see. It can be really, really hard to hold. I mean, even like what you're saying about just practicing, not knowing and practicing.

Practicing humility can be so helpful.

Nate (10:58.035)

Yeah, well it does make me think about how these big moments in our lives with like injuries or deaths or, you know, just stuff going on with family members or losing a job, all of these things, they can bring up those things and part of that, like you're saying, is it's so outside of what you're normally used to that then patterns become very apparent.

if you're willing to bring a level of awareness and presence to the crisis. And as you said, not just push through it, but say, what's in here for me? There's something in here for me in the midst of also coping and dealing. In that...

That is humility. That process is part of the puzzle piece that is humility. It's saying, I don't know how to break all my old patterns. I don't even know sometimes what my patterns are and need, sometimes I need things in life to happen and shift my perspective hard enough.

for me to be able to step outside of myself and become a little more self-aware of limiting ideas, patterns, beliefs. that's, ooh, that's uncomfortable.

Ashley Henderson (12:31.009)

Well, I was thinking, you know, when you step into this world and, and you start waking up and you have more consciousness, it is easier because before that, if you believe just in sort of the conditioning, your, your motivation throughout the day, your motivation in each moment may be about achievement or

attainment or meeting expectations or management or control. I we're just oriented that way. We're just taught that from the beginning. And so you just kind of orient that way and you don't even notice it. You don't even know that you're operating from that. When you, when you start this unraveling, you start to see that this path of humility, the path of like ego death, for lack of a better.

way of saying that, path of the unraveling is the path. It's like the way home is seeing when you're not in presence, is just noticing when you're not in presence. that is the path. I think that's a path of humility. I think there's a real humility to that, which is like a letting go of who you thought you were and what you thought was important and what you thought you were here to do.

and to a place where all you know is what's arising in the present moment.

You know, I think, I mean, I would love for there to be such a shift in our consciousness that we have that at the core of creating the containers for our children to be simply about like recognizing and like teaching, really teaching kids about who they really are.

Ashley Henderson (14:38.293)

I think that would be so cool. Because I think humility can just be a way of living that is always in your own authentic expression and then a place of cooperation and co-creation. Because when we're open to our own presence, we're open to our own expression, we can actually listen to people. We can take people in. We can experience.

real connection with other people. think that's such a game changer for how we create culture and how we create, you know, our collective consciousness.

So I think it's important. think humility is important.

Nate (15:27.224)

Yeah, there's a level of acceptance built in there too that's really...

seems really important to this discussion or to that word. It's like.

not fighting what is, not fighting against or avoiding things that aren't going your way or that happen in a way you didn't expect or challenge your pre-existing beliefs. Yeah, and I agree with you about the children. I I try really hard to make sure my kids know it's okay to fail.

You know, think about like the growth mindset. Carol Dweck wrote a book about that and it's this idea that we don't want to praise outcomes as much as we want to praise the process and how what you got out of the process and what you're like the kind of energy that the child is putting into that. the idea there is to try to separate

outcome as being good or bad and just say, you you put a lot of energy into that thing and you're going to get something out of it no matter what, even if it's a fail. And even with all of that happening, I can still see with my oldest that there's a part of her that just doesn't like to fail at all. And it's so...

Nate (16:59.831)

Gosh, it's triggering, but I also know I have it and it's there and I know that the culture teaches it and it's just very sad to kind of see that level of...

kind of indoctrinated perfectionism, like you should know how to do something the first time you do it, which is crazy. It's crazy. I don't think anyone is actually teaching that, but I think what society doesn't seem to realize is that there's certain things within our culture that perpetuate that kind of unconsciously. And then you need to have some active systems around to dismantle that a little bit. And some of that is,

probably failing on purpose or setting up things that are kind of known to create those situations. And then you're gonna have these moments where you're in that place of humility. You're like, I don't know how to do this, but you have to not know how to do something before you know how to do something. You have to not know the way to then begin to know the way. And that's that dance.

Ashley Henderson (18:09.889)

Well, let's just take, let's take that perfectionism for a second because I think a lot of people relate to that. I know I do and I know you do. That perfectionism is a protection, right? From what?

Nate (18:30.484)

from judgment and maybe not being, probably judgment on a superficial-ish level and then maybe not being loved or not being accepted on a deeper level.

Ashley Henderson (18:44.329)

Yeah, so fear of abandonment or rejection. It's an intense setup. So we're talking about humility. And this is what I'm saying. Like to give up perfectionism means risking all of that. Because somehow the mind has created this gatekeeper to say, go there. You could be rejected. So we're risking.

Nate (18:46.248)

Yeah. Yeah.

Nate (18:52.211)

It is.

Nate (19:00.094)

Yes.

Ashley Henderson (19:10.507)

we're risking rejection. And then you're talking about bringing grace in, some kind of unconditional

love, some kind of unconditional acceptance that will hopefully help.

help navigate those fears. Because those fears are really real for people. I know they are for me. mean, it's really hard to get underneath sometimes or through those protections into the scarier place. Of course, every single time, nothing bad happens. That's 100 % of the time.

Ashley Henderson (19:58.983)

moving through.

Ashley Henderson (20:03.647)

I don't even know what are the words for this. Spiritual awakening, ego death, know, moving through these processes. You only end up feeling relief. Even if you have, you you experience that fear. Maybe you have a moment of experiencing fear or experiencing grief, you know, or anger or so whatever you've been avoiding feeling. You've experienced it.

It's emotion, it's energy moving through your body. When you come out the other side, nothing bad happened.

Whatever you were holding as the big monster in the closet just never came. In fact, there's relief. There's a sort of a feeling of coming home. There's a feeling of

Nate (20:47.345)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (20:57.685)

reconnection.

and a sense of freedom and okayness.

Nate (21:04.933)

Yeah, probably resilience too, that you can weather that. Yeah. Well, I mean, can, well, I was just gonna say, I mean, it makes, there's, I think of two different ways that this is kind of handled. One way is, like, I think that this, like the Stoics talked about this in Greek times where,

Ashley Henderson (21:06.537)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good night.

Nate (21:29.904)

it was like exposure therapy was your way to kind of counteract this. they, there was, can't remember who's Epictetus or someone else, but it was, it might've been Seneca. Someone who basically said, it's important to put yourself in embarrassing situations routinely so that you can counteract the idea that there's anything actually embarrassing at all about

falling in front of people or wearing the wrong outfit or getting a stain on your clothes or doing something socially abnormal, not even bad, just different. And so that kind of, the way that they were saying was like, if you work this into your weekly life, like every couple of times, just like say something outlandish at the coffee shop or do something, that you can build the muscle and it's like exposure therapy.

And that's cool. I mean, that's definitely one way. I think another way, which is kind of how we were starting this conversation was you're discussing how humility is gonna become a topic in your meditation group tonight. And to me, the other, one of the other avenues, and maybe this doesn't, it's not binary, it doesn't have to be this or that, but another avenue in there is awareness and self-reflection and having

the ability to pause in the moment and be like reality checking the kind of internal dialogue and say, do I? know, the exposure therapy does that, but I also think creating a practice around like meditation does or journaling or kind of anything where you're working on your self-reflective muscle can then create a little bit of gap.

And I think a lot of this stuff is, it's the momentum in the subconscious kind of drive that keeps it going. If you can create a gap or you can disrupt it and then examine it, it takes a sting out of it. And a lot of times you can even use your logical mind and be like, well, that doesn't make sense. don't, who cares? But that...

Nate (23:55.018)

you know, the exposure therapy requires fearlessness in terms of just doing it and the, that creating the container takes a little bit of time and a little bit of work. And then it requires trust or faith that when I reflect and I pause, that I can believe that intuitive side of myself and not believe the indoctrinated side of myself.

Ashley Henderson (24:20.513)

Totally. And the process of that also, feel like one of the things that it does, you know, because a lot of people are like, if I talk about humility, a lot of people are like, I don't even know what you're talking about. there is kind of like, we do have to kind of like figure it out as we go. What is exactly all of this talking about? But one of the things that the process

of self-reflection and everything that you were just saying is we start to really notice when we're in one and not the other. Because so much of the ego and conditioning, it runs in this unconscious. We don't even know we're doing it until it gets pointed out or it gets clear somehow. But when you really open this door into awareness and self-reflection and grounding, and you start to open, you're like, I'm interested in my mind.

I'm interested in what are the blocks to my own, what's creating my suffering? How am I creating my suffering? What are the blocks to just being present or being free? Just asking that question. Honestly, if you just ask that question every day, there would be a response. You would start to see. And then you really start to notice, when am I present and when am I not?

And that's really the indicator, I think. Right? When am I present? Really present. And when am I not present? And what's going on when I'm not present? Where am I?

There's something really powerful about just asking that question. And you start to see all the ways that your mind keeps you from presence. And presence is our birthright. Presence is the name of the game.

Nate (26:16.669)

there's a lot of, you know, you're a therapist, my wife is a therapist, I know that there's a lot of exciting stuff happening right now in the app world around apps that are tracking feelings, you know, checking in hourly, like, how do I feel right now? And that's another, you know, it doesn't, we don't have to always hammer meditation, it could be these other things, there's lots of ways to do this. But

how do we build in structure or strengthen the tone of some of these, of having that presence? And so kind of a more modern way would be some of these apps that are having you check in at certain intervals throughout the day around how am I feeling now? Because that's also an access point is that that's bringing you into the present is just, well, how do I feel?

Cause that alone will slow down the whole process of what feels good, what feels bad. Then it can bring you into the place of curiosity. Well, why do I feel like this? Well, you know, I feel good right now. Okay, well, why do I feel good? Like what's happening that makes me feel good? I feel like shit right now. Why do I feel like that right now? There's the, that again is another access point. And I think,

what you were saying there, the reason I thought about that was because you were describing humility in a way, and I think there's a couple of emotions that are like this, that are almost like elephants in the room. It's like they operate, but if they don't get acknowledged, you have no way to work with them. And so there are, and I think shame is probably like that, or guilt, where there's these, you know, people kind of know they're there, but it's like the boogeyman, you don't want to.

You don't want to say it or acknowledge it, but then it has so much power or it's misunderstood like humility, right? It gets put in a camp and it's like, well, that's, this is what this is telling me. It's telling me the humiliation game. And it's like, well, that's one way of looking at it, but it actually has a lot more to tell you. And most of these emotions do, but there's a level of slowing down and being present and engaging with.

Nate (28:43.694)

the actual feelings to then have access to them.

Ashley Henderson (28:50.251)

Totally. Yeah, like I was thinking about this yesterday about how we practice meditation to sort of, I want to say remember, I don't know, like remember or realize this aspect of us that's so much greater than our body or our mind or our identity, you know, the things that we've always associated with me. And then you practice getting in touch with this other

kind of mysterious element that's so much greater than who you are and only ever exists in the present moment. And that realization is so amazing. And then I feel like the path of humility, I was just thinking about this yesterday, you sort of, along this path there becomes this like switch. So instead of an ego,

that seeking this kind of consciousness or this presence or this whatever, you become the presence that's using the ego to experience life, that uses the body to experience life, that recognizes or takes ownership of the mind or the conditioning or the ego or in any given moment. And then with that, there's such a...

unconditional acceptance in that greater aspect of yourself that anything that comes up, anything that arises in your moment to moment experiences is totally accepted. And that's sort of the path of like humility. It's like you're out of the game of good bad. You're out of judgment. You're out of holding everything in this evaluation. You're sort of in awe.

of any moment, right? So I've never heard of those apps, but that makes a lot of sense that there would be, you know, take a moment and see what is here right now. But you're really looking from, you're not looking from the judgmental mind, what emotion is here so I can get rid of it, right? The attunement is from presence to say, is here? What's arriving inside of this vastness, you know?

Ashley Henderson (31:17.853)

And then you just get to be in awe of whatever's here, you know? Which is kind of a cool way to shift how you're living in your moment-to-moment life.

Nate (31:29.516)

Yeah, absolutely. I will find out and put it in the show notes what those apps are called. I was just using my phone's reminders and I set it up so that I was asking myself in the morning after the kids went to school and just before dinner. And it was funny because we're all sharing an Apple account. So you would hear these notification dings.

Ashley Henderson (31:29.759)

begin.

Nate (31:56.705)

before the the one before dinner all on all the kids devices and mine and my wife's and it says How do you feel question mark? And so we were playing this game. We're like, alright, how do you feel? Asking my son my daughter myself Yeah, and it's like it's a it's a playful way but it's also and it's so simple but it's It's what is required if you want to be able to work with this stuff. You have to have

access to it. And then, then, and then yes, you can move off into all these other beautiful places. But yeah, the, the first step is acknowledging that it's there. And then, you know, finding out where am I on the spectrum of feeling right now. That somehow seems like a radical thing because as we've talked about, I mean, we're, we're, it's very easy to just kind of put your head down and

not come up for air for like hours. Whether it's working with people or scrolling on your phone or doing computer work, whatever. taking time out to tap in a little is gonna give you that, it can really free things up. Gives you a place to move into that understanding around humility and acceptance of all that is showing up for you in life. That's really what it sounds like we're talking about here.

Ashley Henderson (33:24.575)

I think that is what we're talking about. That's like a hard one to get to because it's a process and it's a lived experience. You know, it's like sort of a lived experience. I just remember the first time I was like, this is what humility means. This is what humility means. It means I kind of got to the end of surrender of a certain, of something that I had been holding onto that just wasn't serving me.

Nate (33:31.775)

Mm-hmm.

Nate (33:47.465)

Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (33:53.857)

But it was hard to let go of, like a character. it was like, yeah, a belief, a belief that I was holding onto that wasn't serving me. And life had orchestrated itself perfectly to get me to this surrendered point. And I remember just giving up, being like, oh my gosh, I guess that's over. And there was like this moment of fear and grief of it's over and then immediate relief.

And I was like, this is what humility is like when you really are at the end or, I don't know, you get to the bottom of the barrel or something, you know, this point of surrender and you can let go of something that, you know, doesn't, doesn't serve you anymore. don't know. I don't know if that's the right term for humility, but that's what it felt like for me in that moment.

Nate (34:47.835)

Yeah, think there's also, I think we're missing another thing maybe that we could lightly borrow from the Judeo-Christian part of humility, which is that this kind of surrender, and I like surrender, and this acknowledgement that comes with humility also

creates a space and an opportunity for us to ask others for help along the process. Like it can bring you to a place where maybe you're like, you know, I just can't quite get it. I can't get there. need a teacher, I need a mentor, I need a spouse or a parent or someone to kind of maybe reflect something to me or

hold space or whatever, but I think there's an access point in humility around that as well. I don't know, what do you think?

Ashley Henderson (35:53.065)

I love that. I actually love that. think that's such a cool thing to bring in because I think that can be so hard and so elusive for people. Like maybe they've never felt like they could ask, so they don't even think about it. But you're absolutely right. I mean, I don't know if we can do this without each other.

Nate (36:01.084)

Yeah.

Nate (36:12.921)

Yeah, well, it certainly, it seems like a much harder way, harder way to do it.

Ashley Henderson (36:18.989)

It's possible. it possible? I mean, I suppose, but you're right. It it, it smooths the path. Um, I actually was having this thought earlier in this conversation and I've been thinking about it a lot lately about the power of these circles, the power of being witnessed in your vulnerability and the power of witnessing others and how many, how much we're all holding for each other.

And we've lost these opportunities to be in ritual and be in circles and come together in real vulnerability. How powerful that is.

to create those opportunities. It's very healing. It's very, very healing. And I think, I know for years I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I do not want to be in circle. You know, I just, there's too much of a risk of exposure. And now I see that anxiety or that tension is this.

Nate (37:15.406)

Hehehe.

Ashley Henderson (37:30.815)

both sides, it's a risk of exposure and risk of being seen and how scary but healing that can be.

Nate (37:44.067)

Yeah, and sometimes healing can feel scary. Sometimes we're not quite ready to give up the ghost on some of these thought forms and patterns and egoic structures, because they're propping up other parts of ourselves. And that's where grace needs to come in, where it just, you you don't take this thing down in one fell swoop. got to, you know, you're dismantling this stuff.

Carefully so that you can put something else back together, you know I do think that the the circle that there seems to be especially with the Kind of awakenings and people are experiencing I think I think the call and the need for community and circle in kind of re ritualizing ourself is going to become more and more

prominent in multifaceted and unique ways. I don't think it's going to look the same for everybody. I think of, you you just think of how probably healing and powerful and restorative it was to sit around a fire at night under the stars. And you probably didn't even have to talk. You could, but just that regulating your body, regulate, you know, connecting.

to your stellar community, sitting around fire, all of it probably was doing so much, but it was important, I think, that it was more than just one person. I think that's fine, just by yourself, but in community sharing space, yeah. And so there's gonna be, whether it's meditation circles or healing circles or drum circles or.

whatever, sewing circles and knitting circles like my wife likes to do. Yeah, community I think is gonna become very, it's always been important, but I think now even more than ever, it's huge so that we can support each other.

Ashley Henderson (39:57.865)

Yeah, it's interesting how healing it can be for people just to simply bring themselves forward in community. We have all of these healing modalities that are about somebody healing somebody or somebody having the information that somebody else doesn't have, so somebody's called the healer.

Believe me, I appreciate that and I was that and I access that. But the power of, you you have no idea that whatever the thing that's most vulnerable for you, how you just simply sharing it is going to affect somebody else. There's such a power in that.

and

Ashley Henderson (40:54.569)

Yeah, it's like we're reaching out to each other in these very simple and humble ways. And yet there's such a profound effect. I don't know, I'm really speaking for myself. I don't know if that's true for everybody, but it's certainly been true for me. It's really helped.

Nate (41:10.537)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nate (41:18.249)

Well, yeah, and I mean, just to create nuance here, also, it feels like a much bigger leap for an introvert than probably an extrovert is like, yeah, let's get together in a group. As an introvert who doesn't, you know, doesn't necessarily default to sharing or being in groups, that feels like a bit of a risk, but I think the risk reward ratio, that's,

That's kind of how you know there's something there. It's just like, ooh, that feels kind of big. Well, it's like, well, if it feels kind of big, you might want to at least try it once and see what's the quote big thing there. Could be a big, great, thing.

Ashley Henderson (42:04.737)

Totally. I even think introverts have the most to, you introverts are doing a lot of deep thinking and, know, probably have a lot of wise stuff to share. Yeah.

Nate (42:12.415)

Yes.

Ashley Henderson (42:29.813)

Yeah, I guess the basic, as I've been thinking about humility, the basic kind of feeling of it is that life really isn't about what we thought it was about. And there's a lot more neutrality in what we're doing here than what we thought. And when you can get to that place,

You know, because I think it's hard also to let go of drama. It's hard to let go of your stories about yourself. It's hard to let go of, you know, kind of victimization. It's hard to let go of, you know, maybe an achievement oriented way of seeing life. Like it's just some of these things can be hard to let go of when you come, you know, come back into this kind of like the neutrality of nature. Right. As mirroring.

mirroring humility. But yeah, there's a lot of freedom in letting go of that stuff. And there's a lot going on in that quieter space.

Nate (43:25.788)

Yeah, I like that.

Nate (43:44.902)

Yeah, I like looking at nature as the model. That's helpful.

Nate (43:51.954)

It's a recognition of our place and that we don't know it all.

Nate (44:09.424)

Do we have any more to say about humility? No?

Ashley Henderson (44:10.965)

I don't think so. I mean, I don't even know what I said. You know, out of it. Can't hear. My ears are clogged. It's quite distracting. I mean, I can hear.

Nate (44:15.696)

you

Okay.

Yeah, know I yeah, yeah. I have to pull, I don't have a cold, but I have to pull my earbud out a little bit just so I don't feel so plugged up because I don't like that sound. Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (44:34.507)

Well, I'm just like.

in a process right now where my ears are clogged. I think it's because this perpetual cold that I have, but I also have wax buildup. And I went to the doctor and she told me to get this tool that... Let me stop this recording. I don't know what it is.