Not Needing to Know

In this episode of Spiritual Unraveling, Nate and Ashley explore the themes of anxiety, the unknown, and the importance of intuition and surrender. They discuss how societal expectations can create unnecessary pressure and how embracing uncertainty can lead to personal growth and creativity. The conversation emphasizes the need for community support and the power of trusting one's inner voice, ultimately advocating for a shift in perspective towards a more open and playful approach to life.

Transcript

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Nate (00:04.002)
Welcome everyone to Spiritual Unraveling with Ashley and Nate. And today's podcast is titled, Not Needing to Know. And this is great because Ashley and I always do a check-in before we hop on. And I am in the midst of a move, getting closer to moving from New York back to California. And there has just been a lot of stuff going on in my life.

including an uptick in anxiety. And so Ashley and I were having this conversation about why we're feeling anxious and we're just kind of going into it. And Ashley, you had shared with me this idea that came on your Instagram feed from a neuroscientist or a psychologist who said that anxiety is the brain's way of like trying to know the unknown.

Well, go ahead and clarify for me because it was so good.

Ashley Henderson (01:01.56)
Yeah, she actually, think she actually said, and we can find it and link it, but I think she actually said that anxiety is like the definition of anxiety is rooted in the belief that you need to know. And that when we feel like we need to know something and we're overthinking and overdoing that

Nate (01:05.684)
Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (01:30.91)
the overthinking and overdoing to try to gain control actually creates more anxiety.

Nate (01:39.723)
Right, so the process of trying to soothe yourself is actually making the problem worse.

Ashley Henderson (01:39.856)
thought that was really fascinating.

Ashley Henderson (01:45.58)
Exactly, because it reinforces this unconscious belief that you're supposed to know or you need to know or you need to have control. And so we're operating from that unconsciously most of the time. And so highlighting that, as she was saying, it's a real game changer because it's very counterintuitive to adopt a belief that you don't actually need to know.

and you don't need to control anything. So anyway, that was really interesting. And when you're up against kind of this massive move that affects a lot of people, including your three little kids, the desire or the impulse to know is probably pretty strong. Where are we gonna end up? How is it gonna go? What are all the blind, what are all the things we don't?

you know, how can we prepare for all the things that could happen?

Yeah, and sort of how do you hold a mindset of you don't need to know?

Nate (02:57.42)
Yeah. Yes. And I think I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that what's happening in my life, the micro, is also this we're having as a nation, this bigger macro reflection of just intense amounts of anxiety because there's so much energy. There's so many things that are happening that are making people feel very scared. And a lot of them don't have clear

Ashley Henderson (02:58.425)
you

Nate (03:27.166)
outcomes or answers or if it so not only is this topic timely for me also but I think this is one that we could all use a little help with talking about which is what would it be like to can like turn on our head the way that we look at things that are creating anxiety in our life and maybe flip that idea completely and we we don't

need to necessarily know the answer and the idea that pursuing answers in the unknown is going to create this endless cycle of this, like, you know, like the hamster wheel of more anxiety. So this, definitely feels like it's up right now.

Ashley Henderson (04:19.588)
Yeah, I was actually just thinking that everything that's happening in the world that's so deeply upsetting is almost here to unhook us from kind of the ways that we can almost trick ourselves into thinking that everything is okay or that...

we are in control or we, you know, it's sort of an illusion of a sense of what we know or we're in control. And right now there's not much to hold on to, you know, in the outside world and what it triggers, where I see the potential like benefit of that or benefit, I don't know if that's right word, but

is, is that it kind of forces you into this, knowing forces you into a sort of a feeling of not being in control, which, which could trigger sort of a going inward. Well, what do I know? Or what, what can I do? That's kind of running on a deeper kind of sense of intuition. And that's what we kind of came to in our check-in was.

you know, that's pretty much all you have. At the end of the day, all we each one of us individually has our intuition. And sometimes our intuition goes against our logical mind. It goes against the cultural norms. Like it doesn't always have to make sense in the larger scheme of the world. And in fact, it often doesn't in a in a weird way. It often doesn't.

And, and so as we unhook from feeling like we have these, these outer cultural norms to hold onto, we can use that to go more inward and trust, just practice trusting and not knowing, trusting our intuition and just doing the next right thing in our lives from that sense of intuition. And I know that that's a lot of what you've been setting up for yourself and practicing.

Ashley Henderson (06:47.751)
in preparation for this move, which I think it's just so cool.

and exciting.

Nate (06:53.994)
Yes, it is. It is exciting. Yeah, it's like shelving the predictive part of your brain. It's trying to say it's disrupting that. And I think when stuff is up in your life, that becomes the invitation. Whether it's, you know, stuff that's happening on a national level or stuff that's happening at your very personal level.

Yeah, that idea that you need to know is tied in with then, well, where does your brain go? Well, your brain is actually going into imagination, but is it the imagination, is it the storyteller you want? Are we doing a thriller or a horror movie? Are we doing a rom-com or a fantasy? And I don't know about you.

Ashley Henderson (07:43.187)
That's a good point.

Nate (07:54.282)
brain when it goes into predictive future mode has definitely like an edge. It edges into thrills and maybe a little more surmounting obstacles than I want. So, and again, this whole way that we're talking about this is kind of playfully pulling apart these difficult

Ashley Henderson (08:01.605)
Yeah.

Nate (08:22.986)
of ourselves that a lot of people live with anxiety and how can we think about it in different ways. We're often just faced with like tools to manage anxiety but what if we just can completely you know flip the idea on our head and move into surrender and trust and what a different kind of way of orienting to it than I don't know CBT or some other kind of

different way.

Ashley Henderson (08:53.382)
Yeah, yeah. Like I was thinking that, you know, where we got to in our check-in was the concept of, or the idea or the lived experience of not needing to know how things go. That really grounded present sense of it doesn't matter what happens. That concept is something that I think kids do really well. Young kids do.

it doesn't matter what happens really, really well. And then we train them to really care about what happens, to feel good and bad about what happens, to control, try to control what happens. And we lose this sense of real freedom and joy actually. It's not just,

kind of that, I don't know, kind of exciting, like, shit, I don't know what's gonna happen, you know, but it's like, kind of like free, like, cool, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna see what happens. Let's see what happens. And then when you really don't have expectations, there's a way that you naturally, I don't know if this is true, I'm saying this for the first time, that you naturally sort of get in your own experience.

Like I could imagine sort of thinking about kids and how they move through the world. They're embodied. They're not in their head all day thinking, well, what's this scenario? What's that scenario? How can I control this? How can I make that happen? They're sort of present and embodied and in their feelings and in their in their experience. And when you're staying connected to your body, to your experience, to your

intuition to your present moment, lived, felt sense of life. You are guided by that. You are simply, it's a very simple guidance towards the next right thing, left or right, red or blue, know, like which, do I feel like right now? What's my sense of what's important to me right now? And that's, that is

Ashley Henderson (11:19.576)
a deeply creative way of living. a deeply present.

creative, expansive way of being in the world. It's like a beautiful thing to practice. I love practicing this on retreat because there's literally nothing you have to take care of. There's nothing to do. Time sort of stops. And so then, you you get to just really be with your lived experience. And usually, you know, maybe unfelt emotions come in, which is a big part of the healing.

process of taking retreat time. But there's also joy that comes in, like real relief and a sense of freedom and joy and creativity. People get tons of ideas, you know, download because there's now space, you know, that you're not kind of preoccupied with the future, you know, or the points to sell.

Nate (12:22.149)
Yeah.

Nate (12:26.044)
Yeah, mean, there's, this gets talked about and it's just really hard to, there's the lived experience and then there's kind of the conceptual reality, but the lived experience is surrender and trust and not controlling brings you into that void space of freedom where everything can kind of unfold and play, can happen and joy and inspiration can all come in.

And yet we counter-intuitively were conditioned and were often reinforced to exert lots of control and to manage expectations and all of these things. And it just stifles synchronicity, creativity, imagination. And then we're kind of, it's like we get trapped in that room and then we forget that there's even a door out. You're like,

I don't know, this is all, I just get stuck in this cycle of doing this thing and now, you know, if you like, like you and I, if you're moving into a new career and you want to be in a creative, expansive space, kind of an entrepreneurial, excited, opening up space, it also comes with some fear because it's a new thing and then you're in this tension point of, okay, counter-intuitively holding on

less tight, creating more space for playfulness and kind of spontaneous things that happen is where it's kind of where all that stuff lives and that is such the opposite of the anxiety predictive controlling model. And it's so weird because yeah, we get presented with one as like and it even gets presented in culture as like this is the way to do it.

You fill out a two year plan, you bullet point it down, you get, in that, so it must, it works for some people, but I always think there's something missing there. And I'm like, those people that do that and it works, some other part of them that they're not talking about in their book or their blog or whatever, is that something that they do lights them up like a fricking light bulb, makes their heart open. And that thing,

Nate (14:54.662)
which may or may not be addressed is probably the thing that's driving the whole damn success train. So it's like weird. We're looking at things and we're thinking one thing leads to the answer and really it's like, no, it's not that hard work plotting out five year plan. It's actually just how much you enjoy doing the new project or the thing and the creative space and freedom you get into when you start doing it, like flow.

Ashley Henderson (15:21.136)
Totally, totally. That reminds me of something that I heard. I think I heard Matt Khan say this a long time ago that manifestation isn't what we think it is. You know, this concept of manifestation, that it's actually intuition. You know, so, so even for your move, let's say, you know, like all the decisions that you guys have been making.

towards this move where you just don't, you don't know what's gonna happen. You don't know where you're gonna end up, but all the decisions could be stemming from a sense of intuition that this thing is already kind of planned out and you're responding to that sense, right? The mind might wanna think that it's controlling things or that it's directing things, but it could be this whole other thing that you're not aware of at all that...

that's driving the train. And I love that concept because I think, know, manifestation techniques are kind of hard. They're hard because the mind wants to get involved in manifestation. And I don't think it comes from the mind at all. think the mind can, you know, we can use our minds to to think the steps, take, you know, go to the store and buy the things and apply for this or do that. You know, I mean, it's useful to have a functioning mind.

Nate (16:33.273)
No.

Ashley Henderson (16:47.994)
But yeah, exactly. Like where is it all orienting from? And where are we inspired from? And that's sort of the mystery. That's like the fun mystery of life. And I love the idea of sitting in that mystery and deeply, deeply saying, it doesn't matter what happens. That the mystery itself is the truth.

And so the outcome is irrelevant. It's really about the process and sitting in the mystery and trusting it, trusting the unfolding of it all, you know? Because there's always a lesson or there's always an expansion no matter what happens.

Nate (17:39.267)
Absolutely, yeah. It's like we get too close to it. When the brain gets involved, we get right up on the front of our life screen and we're really, just in all the details. And if you just zoom out a little bit and get some perspective, like, it is a process. It's the journey, it's not the destination that gets said a lot, but it really is, it's like.

You don't want to micromanage this thing, your life. You micromanage your life. Where's the fun? Where's the joy? Where's the mystery? Where is just like, you know, the person you didn't expect to meet, the job you didn't expect to get, the song you didn't know you were going to write, the book you didn't know you, you know, all of that comes in those places of not having expectation, being very open and letting life

unfold for you. And it's like, you know, like you said, there's no, there's no, there's no downside to having, we need the brain for some of these things and we need structure around these things. But it's just like, it has 80 to 90 % of, of your focus and intuition and surrender have 10. And it's like, if you're lucky, it has 10. I mean,

Geez, gotta get those numbers way, way more into balance, know, in the counterintuitive part. And I think this is what you were alluding to with the manifestation processes is it's like, those are all like ways of reverse engineering trust and synchronicity and opening up to the universe when really all you have to do is just stop being so controlling and having expectations and.

and move into a childlike place of curiosity. We were talking about that word of curiosity and surrender and just like, well, what happens next? Well, what happens next? I don't know, you know? I mean, we all have fricking phones. There is no way you can go through life without just huge amount of control based on the fact that you got this GPS tracking device that's giving you alerts. People are calling you, texting you. You can't escape that. So it's not like we're asking you to like,

Nate (20:06.167)
Completely surrender. I don't think anyone in this day and age can really do that. We're like just move the goalposts more to openness, to presence, to wonder and whimsy. Like really, yeah, go ahead.

Ashley Henderson (20:25.742)
Yeah, totally. It's almost, I was just thinking the same thing that, you know, we're in a lot of ways we're having to unwind these like unconscious beliefs about overworking and overdoing and our relationship with knowing and our relationship with control and security. And

you know, giving ourselves sort of conscious permission to do nothing or conscious permission to really explore the fear that might come up, you know, around expectation or a sense of security, you know, to even my son yesterday, we were, we were talking about some fears that was coming up actually around

sports and he's doing summer football and he's on varsity and you know, he's like, I don't really know how it's going to go. I don't know if I'm, you know, if I'm going to be able, you know, to do well. I don't know how I'm going to do, you know, and we were kind talking about, what if it didn't matter? Then what would you do at practice? Like if it didn't matter, if you let go of needing to be great or first, you know, first string or, you know,

whatever, like any goals that you have or so, just like let go, what would you do? You know, and he said, well, it probably would take the pressure off and then it would be more fun. And so we're just talking about how to, you know, or the other idea we were talking about is just going directly into the fear. You know, he's like, well, what if XYZ happens? And it's like, well, go into it. What if it happens?

Nate (22:13.644)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (22:14.628)
you know, and really trying that on. And just, you know, the conversation ended up giving him some sense of relief around holding some of these things. And I know we all do this, because anytime I get into these groups where people are sharing, once you hear yourself talk about some of your fears or whatever, you're like, I guess it's not that scary. But we hold them in this kind of tense, really important way.

you know, our worst case scenarios and we just hold them in our bodies and we hold tension, you know, around it and, and, yeah, just voicing it sometimes, just hearing it, hearing yourself talk about it or journaling about it, just getting some, loosening your grip on some of your expectations can really help. But I also just love, I think you and I have both really been doing this, is carving out time to do nothing.

Nate (22:44.385)
Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (23:12.816)
just kind of funny way to say it, but you know, we'd also have a lot of things to do, but making sure that we have time to do nothing so that we're really in our experience. We're in our bodies, we're in our, you know, feelings, you know?

Nate (23:26.4)
Yeah.

Nate (23:30.689)
I prefer to call it unstructured me time, Ashley. That way it sounds a little more sophisticated and... Absolutely, no, I know... Yes. Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (23:41.52)
Well, that's why I said it that way. Because I think it's challenging. think it challenged. Unstructured me time actually sounds productive. Doing nothing challenges our whole of productivity, you know?

Nate (23:54.933)
Yes, right. Yeah, no, no, yours is much more direct and it's good, I would say, that tongue in cheek. And I love that you and your son were having that conversation because it's very true. So much of the kind of what is perceived as discomfort or pain or fear around bad things happening.

happening to you or situations that may go away that you don't expect or you don't like, whatever that means, is just kind of like, it's not acknowledging fears, it's not looking at something, it's just, so then it kind of has like a boogeyman kind of vibe, it becomes bigger, and it's actually just that it sucks energy. That's the biggest problem, is that you kind of unconsciously

start dripping your energy into that fear and it just gets to live. it gets a, you know, it carves out a spot in your psyche. It also carves out an energetic spot in you. And when you, as you said, you look at it, you turn, you face it and you talk about it, you're taking that energy back. You're reclaiming it and you're in a way you're, you're self validating. You're like, well, that doesn't, when I say it like that and say it out loud.

to another person, I realized that's not really that big of a deal and it probably wouldn't play out that way anyways. And then the other thing that I loved about your conversation with your son around the sports is that at the base level, sports are about playing. You play a sport and I think it's...

indicative of where our culture is at that at a certain level our kids get programmed into being successful at sports and not playing sports. And if you just play the sport you love and you play hard and you play to have fun, guess what? You're probably going to be successful and you don't have to worry about the other stuff. But that's, yeah, I mean, have my son is 10 and he's in soccer right now and it's

Nate (26:19.779)
our league is play, it's all play. And there's an under 12, just the next one up and they're a travel league and they're playing for success. And it is a tangible palpable difference in the way you see the kids playing on the field. It was just like playing to play. And I think we could use that, all that reminder in our own life.

Ashley Henderson (26:43.056)
Nothing.

Nate (26:48.105)
We're playing this game of life. Let's remember that play is a big part of that.

Ashley Henderson (26:53.19)
Totally, totally. And we've also had this conversation this year. He just finished his sophomore year. And so he's heading into thinking more about the future and college and things like that. And he goes to a Catholic school where those kids are pretty motivated and focused on college. And he literally came.

home one day and he's like, do I need to worry about college? This is a couple months ago. I was so grateful he said that, asked me that, because I was able to just say, no, you don't need to worry about it. He's, you know, everybody has their different path in life and he is very curious and he's motivated to learn and do well in school. And that's enough. He's like on his own path, you know.

And I think what happens is when we encourage kids to be so future focused, I mean, there's just tons of depression and anxiety. There's tons of burnout. There's tons of self-esteem issues and insecurity around all these expectations, particularly around college. And I just think we're totally off track with that. It's not that you, you know,

education is good and higher education, although with AI, I don't know where we're headed. have no idea where we're going with it. don't have a clue what, what this is, how this is all going to turn out. And I hope it's some, something good. and, and, and one thing I hope that AI changes is this pressure on kids. just cannot, I'd, you know, like when you, when you said this earlier about like passion directing things,

I really feel like that's the switch that we really need to make. You know, that as humans, we get to be held by our communities and driven by our own passions, you know, in our own intuition and our own joy. And I don't think we're doing that. We're not holding each other in community very well. And we're not encouraging people to touch into their passion and their creativity. So, but.

Nate (28:49.534)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (29:11.694)
Yeah, so I got to tell him, no, you don't have to worry about it at all. And I really mean that. I really, really mean it. So we'll see how that goes.

Nate (29:21.247)
It's such a good example. It's so rich. it just even in your frame of what he had said to you, which was, do I need to worry about this? okay, just so just right there, we pause right there. First of all, we move to this place of seeing it as a choice. Like he's actually seeing people in his life now starting to worry and getting that transmission from society or their parents or their teachers, right?

you need to worry about this thing. So that's crazy just itself because it's as if worry is a prescriptive answer for something like, yeah, yeah, you should worry about that. And then the deeper piece underneath it, which is let's say you're a kid who's not doing well in school and somebody says, you you really need to worry about college because your grades aren't And...

So what you're saying to this young person is has nothing to do with them. You haven't asked them any questions. You just dropped this burden of your future and of worry and of what are you gonna become and society expects you to be something that all gets put there. And no one at any point says, hey, do you like school? That would be your first fricking question. Do you like school?

you don't really like school. Well, why would you worry about something you don't really like? This is, you you have to do it until this age, because everyone does it and we're, you know, we're not that radical yet. But after that, you get to make your own choices. And if you don't want to do something, why the hell would you worry about? Put it on your plate. Why would you even do it? And it's just, but that is it packed in all of that, of course, is conditioning is expectation is

Control and norms and all of that stuff, which I do agree It's not just AI. It's just it started with the internet where it's just like the the

Nate (31:33.319)
getting and gathering and accumulating and reporting back of information is becoming less and less important. It's becoming a little more archaic. And I think if you are going on to higher education, it should be because it's something that lights you up and that learning more about it is just the coolest thing ever. And the people who are in my life who...

not only did college but then went on to get higher degrees like masters or PhDs and they're happy about that. The people that in my life that did that and are happy, it's because the subject they did it was, back again to what we were saying, was a passion project. They didn't need anyone intrinsically motivating them, they just, they were motivated. It was this desire to learn more and it's like, how can we, you know.

This isn't revolutionary. This is like, let's just move the goalposts a little. It's not something you're obligated to do or expected to do. It's something you should do if you want to do it, if you like doing it, if it lights you up.

Ashley Henderson (32:41.466)
Yeah. And that's true with like any sort of arbitrary culturally imposed expectation. You know, I mean, I know a young person who has completely gone separate from all her messaging growing up. She, I think she got her AA, but she kind of went, she's been really following her inner voice, her inner guidance, her passion. you know, sometimes she'll...

get down to zero dollars and then something will show up and everything. She's really seeing how the universe works. She's seeing how synchronicity happens. She's noticing all the different people who come into her life who it feels like, you know, are there to like help her or whatever. You know, she's just really tuned in to how life moves and her place in it.

and her relationship with it. And she's just, she's just really playing out this co-creation. And it's really scary at times for her because she doesn't have security. She doesn't have the security of kind of going along with the flow of the culture, right? To know, I'm okay because I'm in college or I'm okay because I am making this much money or I'm okay because I'm doing what

my parents expected me to do. And so it's, you know, and it's incredibly exciting. She's traveling, she's, you know, learning things that she really wants to learn and really excited by. And so I'm watching her kind of take this path untaken, you know, this kind of go this different route at, you know, at this very young age. It's really exciting to watch her.

to watch it unfold and to hear her process. And it takes a lot of humility and a lot of courage and faith, you know? But it's paying off. It's really paying off. It's like unbelievable. So I see that and I really think that so much is breaking down right now.

Nate (34:51.045)
Absolutely.

Ashley Henderson (35:04.986)
Like even with AI, that's breaking so much down. know, we're almost being forced into this higher consciousness. We're being forced into this other way of living. And so I think that the more intentionally we start to embrace the unknown, embrace that mystery, embrace listening to our intuition, taking risks.

Nate (35:10.251)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (35:34.106)
having the courage, you know what I mean? And we can support each other in doing that. The easier it's gonna go, it's not easy, but it can be easier in connection, in community. Like I really, really think what we really need now is...

going inside, everybody needs to start turning inward, doing the work of turning inward and then being in community, knowing you're not alone on that journey and finding support, you know?

Nate (36:02.251)
Mm-hmm.

Nate (36:13.507)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's the journey of the spiritual unraveling the podcasts and what we're doing. It's like the more people that are seen out in the world, like the young woman you're talking about or like you and I or anybody else who's making unconventional choices that are not driven by societal narratives, but are more by your own, your inner song, by your intuition, whatever.

People sense that. It's a permission slip. It's a way of just energetically putting out into the world, hey, there's a different way to do this. And my way isn't actually gonna be your way, but I'm just letting you know that I am brave enough to do my way and you might think about trying to figure out what your way looks like and.

It's okay, there's a bunch of us out here trying to do this and we don't know, we don't know all the answers and we don't need to know how everything is gonna turn out. We trust and we know that no matter what happens, it's gonna be for our highest good. We're gonna grow out of it and you know, we're on this journey. It's not about predicting outcomes like.

Nobody wants a predictable, I don't know, I don't want a predictable life. I shouldn't put words in people's mouths, but.

Ashley Henderson (37:49.894)
Yeah, I think this is what it is. We're just unraveling thinking that we do want a predictable life when really, truly we don't. And a lot of times, you know, we can really look at our action sometimes. Like if we say we really want something, but we're doing the opposite, we have to start paying attention to what we're doing. We really have to dig into like, what's the reality? What are we really doing? You know, and where is that taking us?

Nate (37:55.79)
Yeah.

Ashley Henderson (38:19.782)
Because there's disconnect between who we think we're supposed to be and who we really are is getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know? And it's stretching to the point where if we don't get on board with who we really are, it's going to start to feel really bad. And I think people are feeling really bad. Probably if you're listening to this podcast, you're not one of those people. But I do think people are really suffering and really struggling right now.

So, and you this path is not easy. It's not like it's a hard sell. You know, it's a hard sell. If you're doing it without bypassing, if you're doing it in, you know, in reality, because unlearning anything, you know, healing, you kind of, you can't avoid the hard aspect of change or the painful aspect of change or...

Nate (38:55.18)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Henderson (39:18.032)
You know, just change is inherently hard, you know? But if we know that, if we know that, it's like, ugh, okay, this is gonna be hard. It's like you heading into this unknown move. It's gonna be hard. There's gonna be hard aspects of it, right? If you don't need it to be easy, then it gets to just be what it is, you know?

Nate (39:23.906)
Yeah.

Nate (39:47.193)
Well, I think we covered it there.

It's the invitation now to be okay not knowing how all of this stuff is going to turn out and

recognizing that you will receive in return for that you will receive a deeper sense of freedom and relief because you're gonna get off the hamster wheel of that predictive thing that happens when we're always trying to manage expectations and anxieties and fears and so yes it's not the easiest thing to do but

There's a big crew of us out here who are living it and we want more people to give it a try.

Ashley Henderson (40:43.332)
Yeah, so it's really, it's dropping into, doesn't matter what happens. It really doesn't matter what happens. Like holding that truth in your body and working on the letting go, you know, in a really conscious way, in a sense of freedom. Gosh, if we all did that, imagine what we would create.

you know, the potential for creating. Yeah, creating a world that actually works for people and doesn't leave anybody behind, you know.

Nate (41:09.283)
Yeah, something beautiful.

Ashley Henderson (41:22.956)
All right, cool.

Nate (41:25.305)
Well, that was fun. Thanks, everyone.