Your Career Journey

🔥 Career Reinvention & Finding True Purpose After 20 Years in Retail. With Scott Baker

• Emma Graham

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In this episode, I chat with Scott Baker, Founder of Toast Financial.

After spending 20 years building a successful career in retail and e-commerce at The Cotton On Group, Scott found himself at a crossroads. He knew he wanted more. More purpose, more alignment with his passions, and more impact from the work he was doing. But he wasn’t sure what direction that should take.

So, what does it actually look like to reinvent your career after two decades in one industry? We unpack the steps Scott took to figure out his next move, from identifying his transferable skills to exploring what really lit him up, and how he made the leap.

We also talk about the emotional side of making a big change like this. What came up for him? What felt exciting, and what was downright scary?

Scott shares what it was like going from the structure of a big corporate role to starting his own business, and the key skills and mindset shifts that helped him navigate that transition. He also dives into how building a strong network and personal brand helped him open doors and gain traction.

If you’re sitting in a role that no longer feels quite right, and you’re wondering how to figure out what’s next, this episode is full of practical advice and inspiration to get you started.

Episode breakdown:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:27 Early Career and Retail Journey

04:27 Transition to a New Career

08:12 Starting a Business as a Mortgage Broker

17:51 Purpose and Impact

24:03 Challenges of Running a Business

25:21 Staying Disciplined While Working Alone

26:53 The Importance of Curiosity in Learning

29:27 Building Momentum in Business

32:25 Networking and Personal Branding

44:42 The Power of Vulnerability and Asking for Help

If you'd like to connect with Scott:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottybaker/

Website: https://www.toastfinance.com.au/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scott_thebroker_baker/

I'm Emma Graham, Career Coach, ex-recruiter, here to help you:
💡 Gain clarity on what’s important to you
💡 Confidently communicate your value
💡 Build a personal brand and a strong network
💡 Take a strategic approach to your next move
💡 Navigate the job market effectively
💡 Build career confidence with a repeatable success blueprint

🌐 Explore my coaching programs and free resources:
Website: https://www.egconsulting.au/
LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/emmajgraham
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emmagrahamcareercoach/

🎁 Free Resources:
📄 CV Development Guide: https://www.egconsulting.au/cv-advice
📄 LinkedIn Profile Optimisation Guide: https://www.egconsulting.au/linkedin-profile-guide

📅 Book Your FREE Career Strategy Discovery Call:
https://calendly.com/emmagrahamconsulting/discovery-call

Emma:

Hello and welcome to Your Career Journey, the podcast designed to be your compass through the twists and turns of career development. Today I'm joined by Scott Baker, founder of Toast Financial, to talk about how he reimagined and reinvented his career path after 20 years in the retail and e-com space with the Cotton On Group. What did that process look like? How did he go about figuring out how to align his personal passions and his professional skills? And was he able to find more purpose and impact in his work. Join me as we find out. Scott, Scott Baker, welcome.

Scott:

Thank you Emma, lovely to be here.

Emma:

Just admiring the backgrounds for those watching on the video with the awesome map that you've got behind you. Very, very on brand.

Scott:

Yes, very good. Very handy in our office in Geelong. It's been more than just an artistic installation and been quite practical to tell people how Geelong works or how it all comes together.

Emma:

Yeah, absolutely. When you first started thinking about your career and when you first started thinking about what you thought you might want to do, do you remember kind of what your first thoughts were and how that kind of came about? I

Scott:

know when I left school, I didn't really have a set thing I wanted to do. It wasn't like, how am I going to be a lawyer or a mechanic or, you know, whatever. And I was just working in retail at the time through schooling years. And I just wanted to work full time. I think my dad wanted me to do all this. degree just because it's a good broad degree. But I was like, no, I love working. I love working with people in retail. So I just started working in retail for the time. And yeah, things kind of progressed from there. I was a store manager. I got my first store management job when I was 18 and then got into visual merchandising. And yeah, things progressed to like a regional merchandising role, to a state role, to a national role. And yeah, it's funny how things evolve. I was living in Sydney at the time for a big part of my life. I grew up in Sydney and then an opportunity came up in my retail career to relocate down to Melbourne. And my old boss had... brought me down to Melbourne. And then after a few months, he left and went across to Cotton On Group, which is down here, based in Geelong. And after about three months, he brought me across to Cotton On to head up marketing and digital merchandise for Factory Green. And that was, I think, in 2008. Things kind of progressed from there.

Emma:

What do you, I guess, what do you sort of look fondly back on in terms of your retail career? What were the things that you really enjoyed about it? And what were the, I'm sure a myriad of, but the ones that really stand out, the transferable skills that it gave you kind of going forward, do you think?

Scott:

Yeah, it was the people. I loved people. working with people helping people solving people's problems like i loved the people component of it even from my first job 15 working on the shop floor i love that customer service service piece as my career progressed in retail my last last 10 and a half years of that at cotton on head office was an incredible life experience with business development personal development leadership Because they really just threw you in the deep. There was no like, here's the playbook and this is what you need to do. Just follow it and off you go. We kind of had to figure it out as we went. And my 10 years there was taking the factory brain from 15 stores in Australia to over 200 stores in five countries. And we set up a business. It was massive. And we set the business up in New Zealand, South Africa, Singapore, Malaysia as well. And I helped recruit and mentor all the in-country merchandising teams and set up the new stores in those countries. So it was an amazing experience around having to deal with different cultures and how different people work and operate and how they'd like to be managed. And all of these types of things you don't really think of became, you know, Challenges, but, you know, incredible, incredible learning experiences. I think with retail, another thing I love was the fast-paced nature. You know, there was a term we used to use called, you know, speed over perfection. Like, don't spend months trying to get something 100% perfect because by the time it's perfect, like, everything's moved on. You know, it's like if 70% means it can get done, do it and then let's move on. Let's keep learning. Let's keep learning. So, yeah, it was an incredible, incredible experience.

Emma:

Do you remember whether it was, I guess, kind of one incident or one particular thought or was it kind of a slow, I guess, awakening over time of that sense of I'm not sure this is, What I want to continue doing in the long term. What was that? Talk me through that thought process and kind of how that came about for you.

Scott:

Yeah, it was like I'm someone who I've always thrived when I'm under pressure. There's some intensity there, a lot going on. Retail started to get just a bit same, same. I wasn't inspired anymore. I wasn't challenged anymore. And we had an amazing experience, but I just had this inner urge of, like, what's next? And I went through a process, and I think my wife taught me to do this, of, like, getting out of my head onto paper. Everything in life I've got skills in, I'm passionate about, and I love doing. And work stuff, out of work stuff, like, didn't matter. It could be anything. And it's actually... very hard but very powerful getting things out of your head on a paper and I think I've sort of written down like 50 different things and it bubbled up to four headlongers which was number one building relationships with people number two property and real estate number three finance and number crunchy and number four problem solving and I was like right I think these are the things I'm good at, I love doing, I'm passionate about. Like, is there a job that's those four things? And I spent a month on six looking at all the job ads and all the job descriptions, everything kind of in banking and finance, everything property and real estate. And I looked at real estate agent, financial planner, investment banker, and I read mortgage broker. I was like, oh, my God, it sounds like those four things. I was like, I don't want to be a broker, like, That sounds ridiculous. Like, no, hang on. I think it's those things. So I then spoke to our own broker we had for years and told him the story. And he's like, look, 80% of it is the people's stuff. The rest you just learn as you go. I was like, okay. And I started to research the industry. And, look, when you're a broker, you have to join what's called an aggregator. And they give you all the back-end support with compliance, you know, all the software to access the lenders, marketing, all that stuff. So I started to make different aggregates just to understand the industry. I went in, I was like, hey, just, you know, I'm kind of working in retail, I'm looking at a career change. How does this industry work? Like, do I work for someone? Do I start my own business? How does your model work? Your franchise? You know, all this type of stuff. And then after I reckon a couple of months, it was like, I need to do this. And I, you know, two young kids at the time, my boys were three and one. I have an incredibly supportive wife. And yeah, I resigned after my boss had gotten on and he just got my plan for Brisbane so I couldn't do it face to face. But I was like, I need to resign and go and start my own business and become a mortgage broker. And he's like, what? I fell off his chair and he's like, what do you want to do? I said, well, I've got to go now. I'm like, My brain is over here already. I can't do my four weeks notice just because I have charm policy. I've got to go. I'd be doing the wrong thing by the company just to hang around. And, you know, I still love the place. I had a great experience there. Still have great relationships with a lot of people who work there. So I left and went back. And my wife, she worked there a time, still does today, and cleaned out my desk the next day. Wow. Yeah, I then had to study and get qualified. And then off I went and started there, coming and started my business from the spare room at home as a mortgage broker.

Emma:

Great piece of advice from your wife there about kind of getting it out of your head and onto paper. And I think one of the things that's often really hard with that process is And you did it really well in your example of taking away the context and not getting hung up on what's the job title, what's the industry, what would I be calling myself and actually just trying to take it back to What do I enjoy doing? What am I passionate about? What do I want my day to look like? And then kind of once you've got those things, almost building that back up into, okay, and what jobs would those activities and those things be? It's that, yeah, it's that lack of context that actually in a weird ways, the thing that actually gives you more clarity, I think.

Scott:

It is, you know, and just like breaking it down. Like when I was like, okay, I'm not just not doing research in the industry, but I'm still research. Like, okay, like, can I make money from this? Like, how do brokers make money? You can just Google it, like, how much commissions, you know, brokers get paid. So I kind of broke it down, like, okay, well, how many loans do I need to sell? How many clients am I going to need to meet? And kind of, you know, how long is it going to take for me to replace my income? You know, so I spent a lot of time in spreadsheets just trying to work out, like, you know, can this be financially, you know, something that can work out? But I also, obviously, want to look at the worst-case scenario as well. So I'm also like, look, if this doesn't work out and I'm really bad at being a broker, I can go back and get a nice job in Britain. Like, no one's going to die. No one's going to be on the streets. You know, like, kind of put it in context. The worst-case scenario is still okay. Everyone's happy and healthy. And I just would have learned so much more and I would have gone back and get a job in Britain now.

Emma:

Yeah. It's so interesting that the worst case scenario and it's, I use it all the time. It's, I think almost quite counterintuitive, but there's something actually quite freeing in going through that process of what's the worst case scenario, because to your point before, once you get that out of your head and onto paper, you start to realise that actually the worst case scenario isn't the end of the world. If X, Y, and Z happens, okay. I could deal with that I could do this I could do that I could find a solution I could find a way through and suddenly this you know really scary worst case scenario you realize actually wouldn't be the end of the world at all and through that process I think actually it's quite bizarrely quite quite freeing to go yeah I'd be okay if literally the worst thing happened I would be okay. So what am I, what's stopping me? What am I waiting for?

Scott:

Totally. And I've had the conversation with so many people who are, you know, at a, oh, I'm not loving my job. Like there's always a reason to not do something, you know, and I think it's, if you really want to make a change in your life and your career and yeah, like break it down, like, You know, I might go to your happy place. Was there a favourite cafe with a view? Like, where's your place where you can go and sit and have hidden space? And, yeah, brained up onto paper and look at words and cross things out and circle things. Like, that gives amazing clarity on, you know, helping someone move forward on, yeah, taking a step on a new career or something like that.

Emma:

Yeah, you mentioned that moment of calling your boss as they were getting on the plane to Brisbane. How did that feel? Like, were you nervous? Were you scared? Were you excited? Like, what were the emotions at that time?

Scott:

I remember, I still remember vividly, Emma, I was at home at the one end of the bench, my wife was in the tune, I think the kids were at the table or something. And I felt... A little bit sick, like, you know, when you're going to have a tough conversation, you've got that sickness in your stomach. But I think where it really hit me was when I hung up the phone, I burst into tears. And I don't think my wife had ever seen me cry before. I think we'd been together eight or nine years at that time. Like, you know, I'm not much bothers me. I'm just kind of a water off the duck's back kind of guy. I just get on with things. And, yeah, I don't think I've ever cried, you know. And I burst into tears and she was like, oh my God, are you okay? And it's funny, it was this, and not that I was stuck there at all. I didn't hate my job or, but I just had this overwhelming sense of emotion of weight off my shoulders of like, wow, I've just resigned from my job and my 20 year career in retail. Wow. Yeah, it was so emotional. But then, you know, half a day later it was like, oh, my God, like I'm doing this now. So then part of me is like, all right, well, let's get going. I need to sign up for the course. I need to qualify. I need to do all these things. But it was an amazing emotional feeling of just like letting out going, wow, like I've taken this step and, yeah, I'm so excited and nervous and pumped all at the

Emma:

same time. All of the emotions all in one go. Because even as you say it like that, you know, I've resigned from my 20-year career. Like, it's big. Like, it's not a... It's not a small thing and obviously something that you'd spent a lot of time working up to and thinking through and going through all of those all of those kind of thought processes. So it's kind of interesting to hear that whilst very emotional, it was almost relief on the other side of that, that. Okay, like this is the line in the sand. Now we're moving forward in a slightly different direction. Yeah, and it was relief in

Scott:

a way that you never realised. Like I said, you know, I love the company, love my job, love the people. So it wasn't like, oh, I hate this. I want to get out and then I get out. Oh, I'm finally out. It was just like this, oh, yeah, an internal sense of relief and power of, wow, we're, We're on the next stage. We're opening a new chapter in my book of my career. And let's see where

Emma:

it goes. It's an interesting and a really good actually turn of phrase that to think of it as a chapter, because I think it's very easy to see people do it all the time. If you're on that path, you just stay on that path. This is what I do. And you just keep kind of pushing forward. But there's nothing to say that you can't. go off in another direction start a new track write an entirely new book like why you know why sometimes we just I think can be our own worst enemies that we can get ourselves kind of trapped in this thinking sometimes that well this is the way it has to be and kind of one foot in front of the other and it can feel scary to go off and do something else but as your experience showed you it kind of liberating at the same time.

Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. I think we're in a world these days where work doesn't have to be this thing. There are so many new industries and businesses out there with technology and what the internet's done in the last 10, 20 years. It's like people talk about work-life balance. It's like, oh, work's this bad thing you've got to do and, gee, you need to break from it so you can go and pull it. You know, like I just think that's an old-fashioned mindset. Like work can be rewarding and fulfilling and make you feel like a purpose. It doesn't have to be this thing that we have to do because we have to earn money. You know, like there are so many things out there now that people can monetise. And I think with some planning and... research and testing and trialing and lots of different things like it can be something that you get purpose from and get paid from um yeah

Emma:

yeah i agree i think there is a real a real shift there and i think certainly the internet and then kind of the digital age has been a huge kind of catalyst for that. And I don't know if you've come across or familiar with Daniel Priestley. Have you read any of his stuff? Yeah, he's great. And he talks a lot about how the digital age is, has kind of really changed that. And yeah, I really enjoy listening to his stuff and a good old, good old Aussie boy as well.

Scott:

I know when I first heard him, I actually thought he was Aussie. Like, but then I was like, oh no, from the uk i think i saw him in lots of uk things i'm like geez yeah it's a bit crossover and then i i've recently learned that yeah he grew up in australia

Emma:

with one australian

Scott:

yeah i'm like okay

Emma:

yeah i think i was listening to him on something the other day and i think he moved to the uk when he was like 19 or 20 and he's kind of been there been there ever since but yeah if people haven't heard him speak highly highly recommend he's been on the diary of a ceo a couple of times and he himself has a very interesting story but also what he talks about and his business is also very interesting so yeah just as an aside yeah yeah good you mentioned purpose there and it's something that i wanted to talk to you about as well and cards on the table, in all honesty, have a slightly love-hate relationship with the word purpose because I do feel like it has become a bit of a buzzword. But what does it mean to you and how did you use that to help you kind of, I guess, refine what you wanted to do and how you wanted to spend your time?

Scott:

Yeah, I think as I started, yeah, the career as a mortgage broker, I think I started to work with people and again, my background in customer service and looking after people and do what you say you're going to do and my love of money and finance and, you know, it's just, I mean, deep down I'm passionate about education and educating people on all things money, budgeting, compound interest so people can create a self-sufficient life for themselves. You know, one thing that I'm Yeah, gets me going around. Like, people know that they can create a life for themselves and not have to get to, you know, 60 or 70 and rely on government welfare. Like, the biggest cost to government from all that taxes is welfare. And it's like if people had education through schooling around money, budgeting, compound interest, And getting disciplines and behaviours in place, like the reliance on the government when we're retired would significantly reduce. And that could reduce our taxes or they could spend their money on other stuff to make this country even greater. But, yeah, I think for me the purpose comes around making an impact on people's lives. And when I meet with clients, like for them to leave a meeting feeling like empowered and energy and like, wow, I didn't think this was for me. I thought only, you know, rich people would want to get some properties or I didn't know that was possible. Like that is the thing that for me is purpose that I get up every day and I'm like I'm going to make a difference in people's lives today. I'm going to educate them. They're going to leave a conversation with me feeling inspired, feeling like they've left with more information and you know that they came with and they feel like they're taking control control of their life and yeah for me that's that's the biggest thing about purpose is is that the impact on other people and knowing that I'm doing something that's making a difference.

Emma:

Yeah. To your point there about teaching, essentially teaching finance in school, not necessarily from a, you know, obviously you can go and study economics, but that more sort of day-to-day um way that you would use finance knowledge whether it's you know how to manage your household budget or how do you get yourself into your own home or all of that kind of thing I do think stuff like that should be taught in schools like to me there's should be part of a basic life skills that that people kind of have that knowledge. And I think it's, yeah, I think it's a bit of a mess that maybe it is taught. I don't have kids. So maybe there is some version of that that's taught in schools, but I'm not aware of it.

Scott:

So what are these speeds? It's very big. And it's one of the only subjects that all of us have to do when we leave school. We all leave school. We have to get a job, money, pay rent, pay bills, like all this stuff.

Unknown:

Um,

Scott:

Yeah, we all have to do it. No one can't have that job. You can't touch it. We all have to deal with money and stuff like that when we go to school. it's not taught

Emma:

and has such an impact on your life and the quality of your life and you know all the stuff around particularly you know ageing populations and all of that kind of stuff like if you can as you said be empowered and have got yourself to a stage where you've got some choices and you're not just kind of reliant on I keep wanting to say pension because that's what it is where I come from but welfare or whatever the Australian terminology is. I think to my point there about my sort of love-hate relationship with the word purpose, I think that the reason I say that is that I personally feel that sometimes people define it too narrowly. And actually, so your definition there of actually being able to help people and have an impact, really meaningful impact on their lives is totally agree with awesome I think that's to me that's what it should mean but I do wonder whether yeah I've had so many conversations with people over the years where as soon as they use the word purpose it almost defaults to be that they should be in or that they want to be in the not-for-profit space or it is about helping people most of the time is is kind of the core of it but then how they see themselves getting there I think they don't necessarily have a broad enough definition of of that and I think that's what's great in in your example because it's yes I want to help people but you haven't sort of limited down to how you how you do that

Scott:

yeah and and even the helping has evolved around it's even not just clients like I'm passionate about even talking about this in the industry I get brokers that reach out

Emma:

and

Scott:

Maybe follow me on Instagram, whatever it is. And, yeah, they're starting out and I'm a few years ahead of them and want some advice. I'm like, oh, my God, I love that. I love helping people, giving them advice, giving them some direction. They take it and go and take action. And, you know, they've learned from it, but they've won or it worked or whatever. And they're, like, so excited. I'm like, yes, I love that. You know, that stuff, Mark. It gets me very excited.

Emma:

Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. Whilst we're in slightly different spaces, it's the exact same reason that I do what I do. So yeah, I totally, totally understand where you're coming from. What have been some of the challenges about making a transition, a reinvention, a pivot? I hate that word. I can't believe I just used it. What are some of the things that you perhaps didn't foresee that were challenges or vice versa? Like how is it now you've done it, kind of looking back on it? Yeah,

Scott:

look, a few things. I mean, if I talk about running my own business and how I'll chat about it, Broking specifically. I mean, the running your own business thing, I mean, that is the bloody hammer. When you start your own business, it makes people out here, they're like, I want to start my own business so I can have freedom of lifestyle and flexibility. No, no, no, no. If you want freedom, flexibility and lifestyle, go and work for someone because you can work nine to five, you can make the same every week. That is freedom of flexibility. Like, when you run your own business, I don't think I realised, I had to learn this very quickly, the whole, like, you've got to work on all aspects of your business every week. You know, you need to be marketing, you need to be doing accounting, you need to be the cleaner. You're the corporate person, you're the CEO. You know, and that is hard to stay disappointed with when you're on your own business. You know, I'm sitting in the spare room at home, seeing all the boxes. I've turned out wardrobe cupboards into whiteboards and put whiteboard panels on there so I can draw where my deals are at. And it's bloody hard. You know, when you're on your own, you've got to get up and do it. And that was very, very hard. I lent on some experience from my retail days and leading teams to help me in that. It was around kind of structuring my week. And I would set calendar invites with myself for meetings for certain things. And it might be, right, Monday at 10 a.m. we're doing pipeline review. Tuesday we're reviewing marketing. Thursday we're doing this. So I can visually see in my calendar all these activities and it's just a meeting with myself. But I just take it in headspace and go, right, okay, now it's Friday. It's marketing day. Cool. I'm not thinking about deals. Now what am I doing for money? Am I writing some social media posts? Am I doing this? Am I doing that? That was a powerful sort of help, you know, discipline early on when, you know, you can be all over the place when you're on your own. And from the broking side of things, there's so much, there's so many intricacies in lending and how deals get put together and dealing with lenders and how assessors assess deals. And it was... It was very hard. I probably took a good nine or 12 months of a lot of pain making mistakes. But something I learned early on in my mentor at the time, he described me like a four-year-old. And he's like, you're like a four-year-old. You just ask why to everything. And I'm like, that was important to me. I'm like, okay, this is how it works. Yeah, but why? Yeah, but why? So I tell people now that we've got learning in the industry, Be a four-year-old.

Emma:

Yeah.

Scott:

Be curious and don't take no for an answer. Ask why something happened, but why not? That is the best way to learn. Don't just take things on face value because, yes, you'll make mistakes, but I think you can realize the kind of mistakes you make by being so curious and leaning on people around you. I think in any industry, lean on people. whether we support people, like people in the industry, people we know, and ask the curious for your own questions, like that stuff that I guess really helped me accelerate the learning early on. and try and, I guess, find mistakes before they happened and minimise surprises. I'm someone, I don't like surprises. I don't even like surprises. It's just what needs to happen, how we plan, how we thought. So it can also help remove, you know, surprises.

Emma:

Yeah, I love the four-year-old analogy because it is like any new thing. You don't know what you don't know. So you've got to uncover everything. It's just that, yeah, why this, why that, why we're doing this. this why are we not doing that is how else how else do you learn you know you've got to you've got to ask the questions that's it

Scott:

my mentor he said to me he was like i think for probably nine months i was a very high maintenance i would call him i'd have like an hour call with him trying to explain to me how trust structures work and then i'd call him an hour and i'm like so you know can you just explain it again But I got there eventually. I persisted out of it. I did get there eventually.

Emma:

I mean, it's kind of hardcore, isn't it? Because you're learning two things at the same time. You're learning being a broker and I guess the more technical aspects of that. But you're also learning to be your own boss and build your own business at the same time. So you've set yourself or had set yourself two fairly difficult challenges in unison there.

Scott:

Absolutely. My first client was my sister-in-law. So I was like, cool. She was like, cool, I'll give you a go. I'm like, amazing. And, you know, I had a chance to practice and probably fumbled my way through all the client meetings. It was okay. It was my sister-in-law. And then Then she put me under some of her work and then it was like a friend let me do their lines and that all worked. And then they put me under some, you know, then you get this little micro, you know, moments of momentum and it just, it keeps you going. You're like, cool, I think I'm getting it. You know, the power of momentum. This incredible really helped me get traction and keep improving.

Emma:

Yeah, I think people really actually underestimate the importance of momentum in kind of all aspects, but I think certainly absolutely 100% in terms of your own business, but also from a career perspective, I think momentum can be really important, certainly for people that are looking to shift or change careers or find a new job. Like momentum is such a part of that. I previously spent whatever it was, 13 odd years in recruitment and we would talk about momentum all the time of just like momentum of the job search or momentum in the process and I would imagine it's not dissimilar with the actual loans process that you've got to keep that you've got to keep that momentum moving forward it's that kind of time kills all deals thing that is a kind of a truism and a truism in recruitment or at least it was

Scott:

but oh yeah no totally yeah yeah couldn't couldn't agree absolutely my retail days just thinking back like As I was going through, you know, Cottenham's a big company, but I would go and have my coffees with different people across the business and learn about their departments. Like my last two years before I went into broking, I headed up e-commerce and digital marketing for the brand. And to get to that, that was my first step of getting a bit more out of my comfort zone. And, you know, I was from stores and then to go into digital, I knew nothing about. I just needed a leader to lead the team and get things going. But do that. Like, I went and met with other people in digital marketing and e-commerce across the group. And I had coffees with them. Like, okay, so what do you do? Like, how does it work? What's your career story? Like, I'm always big on, like, what's your journey? Cool, you're in head of e-com now. How did you get here? What were you doing before? How did you start? I just hear the story from quite often people. Get a little bit of gold from each person. That just helps you, I guess, in clarity or confidence, go, yeah, no, no, no, this jump is right for me. I've done some research, done some homework. I'm feeling good about it. Let's go.

Emma:

Absolutely. It's an awesome piece of advice, actually, and something that I think is actually quite underutilized is particularly in larger businesses, those types of conversations and also leads quite nicely onto the next thing I wanted to ask you about, which is personal brand. But in the sense of someone working in a larger company, actually, those conversations go directly to personal brand because it's visibility. It's putting yourself out there. It's having conversations. It's being able to talk about what you're delivering in your current role whilst also you know finding out about what's happening in other parts of the business so I think a really really underutilized tactic perhaps sounds a little bit clinical but but that's actually what I what I think it is yeah

Scott:

because you never know what your future holds you know I could have met with those five people and I've connected with them they're like oh he's a great guy like he had a great chat Who knows, in X months or years later, an opportunity comes up and we're out, our lockpicks cross and they're like, I've applied for a job. And they're like, actually, I've met Scott. He was this and he was great. You've got to put yourself out there. It can be as simple as just calling someone. And getting to know them. Build your network of human beings you know on Earth. And you just never know when. things pop up and they're like, oh, actually, I do know him. Like, yeah, I think he's cool. Like, he's worth an interview.

Emma:

So true. It's one of the mistakes that I see people make. Again, it's part of sort of a job search or broader that I think they're too literal with how they see networking. Well, I don't think this person can get me a job. So what's the point? But exactly as you said, you never know. You never know. You don't know now. Yeah.

Scott:

Absolutely, and the strategy is like don't go in with intention. No. Like being salesy or like, oh, what am I going to get from this? Yeah. And my early broking days, like I met with so many business owners and people in the community, yeah, and they were kind of waiting for the sales pitch, but I didn't do anything. I'm like, I just want to meet new people and get to know people. Like I just started my own business. You run the local, you know, bathware shop. Tell me about your business. How long have you had it? And, oh, how did you start your business? How many stuff have you got? And that was it. We'll exchange details and off we go. And

Emma:

you

Scott:

remember like deals I've got in over the five years from just those initial, just having a chat and it's another human I know that knows me in the area. Yeah, just go in with an authentic, apply for an authentic place just to, get to know people and I think that's the stuff that really connects

Emma:

yeah definitely and to your earlier point about curiosity and just finding out about people and asking questions and being interested you know and and also I agree of not you know not jumping to the sales pitch and and not even going into the conversation with that intention of just here's a another person let me find out about them who knows where that might lead and just having a yeah open Yeah. don't love the idea of it or what they sort of think that it's about. Whereas I think the actual activity, and as I said before, being more visible and communicating with a broader group of people, I think people understand the value of that activity. They sometimes just don't like the sort of the terminology that goes along with it. But how do you see it and how has it been useful in your transition and into building your business now?

Scott:

Yeah, I think with personal branding, it's... I think a lot of people can feel like, well, like, oh, my God, what is this thing? Do I need to, like, create a brand? Or, like, no, no, no, no. Like, it's... Like, the only thing that each of us have that no one else has is ourselves. Yeah. You know, no one else on this planet can be better at being me than me. And same with you, Emma. No one can be better in the world than you, you know. And it's about people... leveraging and amplifying what they are about and what's unique to them it's not about being different it's about you know being out in the conference to to just to just be yourself and you know personal branding is a saying around it's but your personal brand is what people say about people you know so it's like what's Okay, like everything about how you show up, how you dress, how you look, your body language, how you communicate to people, the questions you ask, how you respond in email, every touch point of you is what your person is about. And you need to think about this depending on what industry you're in. I mean, as an example, if you're someone who maybe– looks a bit, doesn't take care of yourself. You look a bit sloppy and let's say you're a mortgage broker and you don't take care of your appearance and how you show up. You have very interesting people. You could be the best mortgage broker on the

Emma:

planet,

Scott:

but people are going to look and go, well,

Emma:

you

Scott:

look a bit sloppy. You seem a bit sloppy. That's probably what you're like as a broker. This is just, we're humans. This is just how we perceive it. Perception is reality. So I found it's getting really clear on what do I want to kind of present to the world as me and how do I do it and feel comfortable about it. And it's taken time. I've used Instagram as the main platform to build my personal brand and that's kind of how my business was built on that. But it takes time and practice and practice you've just got to be consistently doing it. I mean, if you scroll to the bottom of my feed, there's some really weird videos there. You know, so... I

Emma:

hear you. I have those same ones at the bottom of my feed.

Scott:

Totally. I tell people, I go to the bottom of my feed. I don't want to get in front of the camera. I'm like, go to the bottom of my feed and look what I was doing four or five years ago. Like, it was weird and all good and, yeah, probably fumbled some words. But... The thing we like, especially using social media to help build your own personal brand, is that when people are watching your content, really no one actually cares. Some people are like, oh, I spent hours trying to get a video perfect or whatever. I'm like, no one cares. They're seeing you on their feed and going, oh, three seconds, scroll. I mean, I might do a video for a minute. My average watch time might be 15 seconds or something.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Scott:

Most people, the strategies around just being front of mind, you know, front of mind, front of mind, front of mind. So, again, it's very much a quantity over quality strategy on socials, but it's a great way to help people, I guess, practice their personal brand. Or, you know, if you meet with a client, you know, I always tell people about the whole, what's your spiel? You've got to have a story, you know, and you've got to get personal with people. Like, where are you from? Where did you grow up? Do you have any kids, sisters, brothers? What do you mean? Do you like cooking? Do you like playing golf? Like, this helps practice. It's good practice for people to build their own personal brain. Work's in the workplace. You know, you don't have to run your own business. You don't have to do social media, like, none of that stuff. You could just work for someone, honestly, for years. But how are you showing up in the office? How do you present yourself in meetings? What's your tone of voice in emails? What questions are you asking to people in the meeting versus by the water cooler mode? All of this stuff is creating what your personal brain is about. It is as simple as that. It's not this big, scary thing that people need to go and create.

Emma:

Yeah, absolutely. I do think that's one of the biggest shifts in the market now Over the last few years, and I think it's only going to become even more so, that I think it's perhaps more obvious when it's your own business and people are like, oh yeah, I get why you would, you know, you're the face of your business, you're the face of your brand. But I think the biggest thing that's changing is actually people that work in organizations and certainly larger organizations that idea of instead of you going to an opportunity the opportunities are coming to you and the only way you can do that is to be more visible and and as you said kind of amplify what you stand for and what you've achieved and and kind of all of that that kind of stuff and i think it's a real kind of mental shift in terms of how people sort of think about I guess their careers more broadly but specifically their careers in terms of working for an organisation and particularly in my world I work with marketers and obviously you know they spend all of their time marketing the business that they work for but you need to spend a little bit of your time essentially marketing yourself and working on that kind of visibility and brand at the same time as well how how did you find it in the very beginning when you were kind of first putting yourself out there you mentioned some of those original videos that perhaps aren't your aren't your best work because you said as I said I've got I've got those two but what's that what's that kind of voice in your head saying when you're when you're doing those those first few first few videos I

Scott:

just I just never gave up like I just stuck at it And I just had a go and, yeah, I was the one spending probably two hours on a video that was– and that took me 20 takes and all these types of things. It was uncomfortable and I didn't really like it at the time and I probably would have rather gone back to my desk and just kept busy working. But I guess it was important to me to know that I need to work on all aspects of my business every week. I need to do deals. I need to market. I need to look after new clients. And, you know, the social media piece is marketing. And it was a great way to help get myself out there a bit more and use a platform as a tool to engage new clients, but also existing clients, keep them sticky. I would tell them that we still do stage. Follow us on Instagram. Follow the page. Keeps them close. Ongoing. But it's one of these things like just start and just do it and put it out there. What I tell people is like no one cares. Seriously, no one cares. It's all in your head. Like film a freaking video, film 10 videos, post them all, like post one a day, one a week, whatever it is. As soon as you can realise in your head that no one actually cares, I think we care. It's like, okay, cool, this is good. I wanted to get a message out about our interest rates have gone down this month. Do a 20-second video, post the thing. Get on with your day.

Emma:

Yeah.

Scott:

And I know that's hard, but the sooner you can be realised that no one actually cares, you start to get going and practise. And I've tried lots of different things. And, yeah, you just eventually, you do start to get a bit more of a groove.

Emma:

Yeah, it's so true. And it is just that I think it's easy for people to kind of build up that fear in their heads of, oh, you know, I'm going to post something and like all the internet trolls are going to come for me and, you know, all the people I used to work with and it's going to be horrendous. And as you said, no one cares.

Scott:

No.

Emma:

They're not sitting there waiting.

Scott:

Worrying about what's in their own head. They care about what

Emma:

you're

Scott:

doing.

Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah.

Emma:

and it is such simple advice but it is so true of just post it just do it you'll figure it out the first one probably won't be that good the second third fourth fifth one probably won't be that good but at some point you're gonna figure it out and you're gonna hit the groove and you know and just keep keep learning from there yeah um Final question, Scott. It's always the final question here on the pod, and that is what do you know now that you wish you knew then?

Scott:

Look, probably it took me 12 months to figure it out. Probably just the power of leaning on people, like leaning on people you know, whether it's in your industry, in your workplace, whatever it is, and having some vulnerability to go– Hey, I need help. Well, how do you do this? Or I'm doing this. Or what are your thoughts? I think a lot of people can be too proud and go, I don't ask for help. No, I'll figure it out. They're like, no, no, no. Asking for help is a strength. And I think the sooner you can be vulnerable and go, hey, this is my first time doing this. How would you do it? This is what I'm thinking. I'd love your thoughts. It is a very powerful tool. But asking others for help and being vulnerable, I think that's, Yeah, understanding now the power of that and how that can help you not just learn whatever you're doing, but build a relationship as well. Yeah, very powerful.

Emma:

Totally agree. And I think the other thing that's interesting about that is that most people want to help. They're more than happy to help. They will go out of their way to help you. They just don't magically know that you might need help.

Scott:

Absolutely. If you ask someone for help, like we are humans. We want to help people. Hey, I need help. I've never done this before. Oh, cool. Cool. How can I help you? No one's going to be like, no, no, no. Sorry. Our natural instinct as humans is to go, oh, cool. Yeah, how can I help?

Emma:

100%. 100%. Scott, thank you. That was awesome. So interesting. And yeah, I just love what you've done and really inspirational to kind of make such a change. And it is something that... It's very topical. I think certainly off the kind of the back of COVID, we saw a lot of people wanting to go in very different directions, but I'm just having more and more of these types of conversations where people want to make change and often quite big change and just not knowing how to do it. So thank you so much for sharing your experience and talking through how you did it. It's awesome. Pleasure,

Scott:

Emma. Thanks very much for having me.

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Emma Graham

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