How to Pitch Your Way Into Your Dream Job | Career Confidence, Visibility & Taking Initiative

What if the opportunity you wanted didn’t exist yet and you had to create it yourself?

In this episode, I’m joined by social media and content agency founder Kim James to talk about the power of initiative, visibility, and backing yourself before you feel fully ready.

Kim shares how she went from growing up on a macadamia farm and starting out in operations at Reece, to pitching her way into the first content marketing role for one of Australia’s biggest brands at just 24.

At a time when the business had almost no social media presence, Kim identified an opportunity, pitched a strategy directly to leadership, and created her own pathway into marketing.

We also talk about:
• Building confidence through action, not before it
• Reframing rejection, fear, and imposter syndrome
• Why visibility matters for career growth
• Learning through doing and backing your ideas
• The realities of redundancy, reinvention, and starting again
• AI’s real impact on marketing careers
• Why “closed mouths don’t get fed”

Kim also shares her experience moving into AI and data work after the 2022 redundancies. Before realising she wanted to focus on people, creativity, and strategic thinking, ultimately buying out her co-founder and building a business more aligned with her strengths and values.

This conversation is a great reminder that careers are rarely linear, and that some of the biggest opportunities come from putting yourself forward before you feel fully ready.

To connect with Kim:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-elizabeth-james-19216376/
Website: buildwedge.com

Can you also find episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaGrahamCareerCoach/videos

Your host, Emma Graham, Career Coach and ex-recruiter, is here to help you with:

 💡 Gain clarity on what’s important to you
 💡 Confidently communicate your value
 💡 Build a personal brand and a strong network
 💡 Take a strategic approach to your next move
 💡 Navigate the job market effectively
 💡 Build career confidence with a repeatable success blueprint

🌐 Explore my coaching programs and free resources:
 Website: https://www.egconsulting.au/
 LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/emmajgraham
 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emmagrahamcareercoach/

🎁 Free Resources:
 📄 CV Development Guide: https://www.egconsulting.au/cv-advice
 📄 LinkedIn Profile Optimisation Guide: https://www.egconsulting.au/linkedin-profile-guide

📅 Book Your FREE Career Strategy Discovery Call:
 https://calendly.com/emmagrahamconsulting/discovery-call

Transcript

Emma: Hello and welcome to Your Career Journey, the podcast designed to be your compass through the twists and turns of career development. Today, I'm joined by social media and content agency founder, Kim James, to talk about how she pitched her way into the first content marketing role for one of Australia's biggest brands at just 24, and she hasn't looked back since.

From pitching to building confidence and reframing fear and rejection, Kim has built her career firmly outside of her comfort zone. Join me to hear how she did it

Emma: Kim, thank you so much for joining me. Good to have you here.

Kim James: Thanks for having me.

Emma: A bit about your career journey. Let's go, let's go back to the beginning as you were perhaps leaving school and, and starting to think about what you might want to do in the in the real world, as it were. Did you always know you were gonna go into that sort of creative marketing space?

Talk me, talk me through it.[00:01:00] 

Kim James: No, I absolutely did not. I grew up on a family macadamia farm, so I had a very agricultural

Emma: Very different.

Kim James: Very, very different. So I went to university in the country as well, so opportunities for internships was extremely low. I actually was going to become an

Emma: I actually enjoy [00:02:00] the Yeah.

Kim James: So I started in operations,

Emma: Mm.

Kim James: yeah, quoting toilets and working in a plumbing store selling product.

So it was a very humble beginning when you do this big marketing degree thinking,

Emma: definitely a lot of

Kim James: become the

Emma: quite well in that. But then

Kim James: this?"

Emma: I definitely paced myself and actually just,

from there Mm-hmm

Kim James: care. Just get me into marketing." Like, I just need a foot in the door.

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Kim James: foot in the door

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: we didn't have a, you know, social media [00:03:00] presence as Reece Plumbing. Reece Bathrooms did, but Reece Plumbing, we'd posted one picture of a goat sitting in a chair on Instagram. Like, it was early days.

Emma: screams plumbing, obviously. Yeah.

Kim James: Exactly. So yeah, there was a huge opportunity for it, and I was looking around at all the other grads that had gone to these universities that, you know, about, and I didn't.

I had this degree that they were like... They didn't even know where Southern Cross University was. And I was like, "How do I

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Kim James: myself?" So I did a post-grad in digital marketing through the Chartered Institute in England, yeah, kind of pitched

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Kim James: doing?" Like, "We're one of Australia's biggest brands.

Why aren't we on social media?" And they said, you know, "You figure it out. Write a plan." I googled how to write a social media strategy. Obviously I had a marketing degree, but that's, you know, how most beautiful things start is,

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: it out. And yeah, presented it, and then they basically like, "You know what?

She's right." Two days later, asked the other leaders, and

Emma: away the option that we did. And then that's how we started [00:04:00] testing stuff, breaking on it,

Kim James: into

Emma: having a bit of a focus on,

Kim James: had 24

Emma: two, like,

Kim James: six business

Emma: channels. It was

Kim James: I

Emma: different countries. Yeah.

Kim James: tech

Emma: And then when I did content strategy-

Kim James: well, and that's where I

Emma: For Australia as well, that's where it peaked. Like,

Kim James: kinda

Emma: I got it was one

Kim James: with

Emma: brand.

Kim James: eight

Emma: I kind of got to that point where I

Kim James: loved

Emma: engaged with them.

Kim James: always

Emma: loved it there. I wasn't working like well, but then COVID hit and it was shit. But it had the best three days

Kim James: see

Emma: of

Kim James: that

Emma: culture that

Kim James: used to

Emma: even like with people that were working back then, they were like, "Hey,

Kim James: the golden

Emma: how has this started to evolve?"

Yeah.

Kim James: I loved it every day.

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: then obviously in 2022 there was a lot of redundancy, so that's where I really faced that-

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Kim James: time of being laid off from the dream job and actually needed a bit of a break from marketing.

So I took

Emma: Great for marketing. So I think a great,

Kim James: open source

Emma: when

Kim James: so

Emma: open source intelligence.

Kim James: [00:05:00] but

Emma: when- Mm-hmm.

Kim James: were working with large ones

Emma: So

Kim James: the Australian Taxation

Emma: finding spring cabinet, plant court,

Kim James: of

Emma: and that's really a whole other level of data, and I just love that. It's just kind of like remarkable. Like, I just don't want to totally out of luck

Kim James: use

Emma: with them.

Kim James: and insights

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Kim James: I didn't

Emma: And then

Kim James: was in

Emma: through touch data.

Yeah.

Kim James: I'd always

Emma: That I might be...

Kim James: to my parents, "I'm gonna

Emma: Not enough

Kim James: and I realized I

Emma: lesson.

Kim James: like it's

Emma: And I realized I could also do this with myself. Like, it's

Kim James: myself

Emma: right now. I can get myself comfortable that I can work again.

Kim James: that I needed. And yeah,

Emma: Yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: myself and then last year built some technology as well with a co-founder, like all of us building AI tech, and we had incredible tech.

Emma: [00:06:00] Yeah.

Kim James: tech's great, but what about the you part?" They're like, "You're the one that brings the ideas."

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: wanna work with." And I had to then actually reflect on myself and go, "Well, what is the work that I wanna get out of bed and do every day?" And a lot of that was about working with people and creative ideas and all that. So then, yeah, we had a look at bringing it to services into the tech in-house, and then I could see where I wanted to have an opportunity to take Wedge and definitely of that data and insights piece and then that going into it with creative and really going hard on it from social and content, 'cause obviously that's what I've become quite known for.

So [00:07:00] I yeah, pitched to my co-founder the opportunity of what it would look like to purchase him out. And yeah, that was f- finalized last week. So it's-- That's basically, I think, like 12 years in the matter of what? Like seven minutes.

Emma: Oh, it's really impressive.

Kim James: Thank you.

Emma: You covered covered an awful, an awful lot of ground there. There's, there's so many things that I wanna go back to and I think what would be really useful is to... 'Cause, you know, hindsight's always 20/20 and, and you can see things differently looking back than perhaps you did at the time.

But I'd love to go back and kind of pick out some of the, I guess, key moments and, and things that from, from my perspective listening to you really stand out, but then obviously really interested to, to hear from the inside perspective how it, how it felt kind of going through it. The, the first one is really the going into that graduate program in an area that [00:08:00] you knew you didn't want to be in, but it was kind of the foot in the door.

And as you were saying it, I was just kind of thinking it's really smart. You know, get yourself into a big business, get yourself, as you say, foot in the door, foot on the ladder. Yes, it's maybe not the role you want to stay in, but you can absolutely see that there's gonna be opportunity to, to move within the organisation.

And I would imagine by that stage you'd kind of figured out that it was probably gonna be easier to do that from the inside than, than, you know, just, just keep kind of knocking on the door and no one would let you in. Was, was that quite a conscious decision?

Kim James: Absolutely. Absolutely. A key part of it is I actually read an article in Cosmopolitan magazine, like physical, and I think it was even an advertisement for the army, but it basically said, "Find the job that you want where no one else is looking." And I thought of that with the Reece Grad program. I thought, "I bet you there's not that many people that are kind of, you know, wanting to go into plumbing and go into marketing and seeing that view."

So for me, up on the [00:09:00] country, you learn grit. Like, I think a lot of people right now is talking about how grit is more important than you know, intelligence because, you know, grit is what's gonna keep you going every night and through every failure, and no one feels

Emma: Oh,

Kim James: than farmers. You can have the best year, and then the next year you just, you lose your crop, you have a

Emma: it is brutal.

Kim James: It's brutal. It's the most brutal

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: you know, my

Emma: Mm.

Kim James: that, like, you don't get everything handed to you, and you have to do the grunt work. So for me, it was just a

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: I just thought, exactly as you said, I thought, "It's easier to make a name for myself in a business than trying to do it from the outside." So I just wanted to get what's gonna get me to the city from the country, what's gonna get me in, and then how can I make a name? So a key thing that I did was we kinda didn't have a good project management system when I was in commercial estimating inside the business, and I set up this new system and that made a name for me of, "Dot, this grad that we've got, she's doing this thing."

And then every time that we would do these events, I would meet the senior [00:10:00] leaders. So when it came to me going, "I wanna move to marketing," the right people knew who I was, and

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: that there's such a you know, a, a, there's such a piece right now, especially through social media, that if you don't start in your dreamed career, that it's a failure.

It's like, well, n-no. Like

Emma: exactly.

Kim James: listen

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: where they wanna end up. They just have to get their

Emma: Almost no one.

Kim James: Yeah.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. A- and I love that. As you were saying it, I'm thinking that, that well-n- well-known careers bible, Cosmopolitan.

Kim James: Yeah. Yeah.

Emma: it, it's such a, such a great piece of advice there of like go where no one's looking, because I think so much of, Certainly in, you know, LinkedIn and that kind of space, there's so much saturation in the market, and a lot of it is people using the same channels.

It's a lot of people knocking on the same doors, which is obviously going to be difficult. A- and also I think you see it particularly, I think, in marketing, where people are drawn to brands that they perhaps love as a [00:11:00] consumer. Well, as a marketer, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna be an interesting place to work.

You know, the, the example that always springs to mind is, like, Nike. You're like, well, how much influence are you gonna have in Australia on Nike's marketing? Not, not much. You know, I presume it's a huge percentage is coming from global. You're perhaps tinkering around the edges. You're not necessarily gonna get to do something really groundbreaking and push the envelope, and I think that can sometimes get, get missed.

And as you say, a brand that, you know, from the outside is, is maybe not as, you know, quote-unquote, sexy. But isn't that more of the challenge? Isn't that, isn't that actually more interesting to, to make that engaging, to, to find ways, particularly I'd imagine in social and content, to, to actually engage with people and to bring them on some sort of, you know, brand story, brand journey with you?

Much more interesting, I'd imagine.

Kim James: Absolutely, yeah. And I think a key part of it is it's the experience, but also those companies, they have the technology that [00:12:00] you need access to, you know? Like, by the time that

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: ready to go to my next step, I had all of the technology, so when I would go, "Here's my rate," yeah, I knew how to use every tool 'cause we had them all. I had worked across all of the platforms. I had created it. Like, I had a portfolio creatively, and then also a skill set as well. The other

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: little things that I learnt from corporate that I've realized now just as a business owner takes me to that next

Emma: [00:13:00] Yeah.

Kim James: at that level. You know, working with others, you learn your candor, you

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: That sometimes it's just not where everyone else is looking and there's not as much competition

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. And, and often as I think is evidenced by what you've already said, that sometimes because they have to try harder to get great talent, they've probably built great culture as a result. Because they haven't necessarily had a name that's gonna bring people through the door, they've had to go, you know, "Let's make this a place that everyone wants to work.

Let's," as you said, "invest in our tech stack. Let's have the best of, you know, whatever software it is. Let's invest in leadership [00:14:00] development," all of those things that, I mean, they matter at any point in your career, obviously. But I think particularly in those early days when there's an element of you don't know what you don't know, and, and if you're just kinda left to figure that all out for yourself, it's really hard.

And if you've had that foundation, it's funny you mentioned DISC in a, gosh, a very distant life, like literally 20 years ago, I had a management training company and, and actually did-- I, I trained in, in DISC and, and used to do team building and communication skills, and I, I love that tool as well. I think it's so, so useful.

As you said, not just from the understanding of self, but the then being able to interact with others and communicate with others in a way that they will hear you more clearly.

Kim James: Mm.

Emma: I think it's great. And yes, there are of course small businesses that, that will invest in that kind of stuff too, but probably not to the same level just from a, you know, a practicality or resources point of view.

And it's interesting now when you kind of look back on it, and [00:15:00] I wonder at the time if you actually realised how... I was gonna say lucky, it's not the right word, but how, what a positive place you were actually in. Maybe you just assumed that all organisations are like that because you haven't had a different experience.

But it sounds like it was yeah, really formative.

Kim James: Oh, absolutely. And I think there were so many points, especially when I was in that of, you know, the number one part where I really saw, and it's like it's the

Emma: Yeah. Don't

Kim James: sad and just so just like, "What am I doing?" Like, I've never felt

Emma: [00:16:00] we

Kim James: was-- that I wanted. You know, I wanted the, the Devil Wears Prada job, you know? And I took the stepping stone, and I was like, "No one's coming." So

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: so by having that, it was just such a key pivotal moment that then back then

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: just was able to then every single time...

I think I kinda had this innate, like- Just kind of pacing myself that I realise not everyone does,

Emma: I told her I realised Well, everyone does, but I think like don't know what you have. But my favorite thing is like not like a PowerPoint or something. In my brain it works like a that I just really like grappled with my brain for what my

Kim James: enjoy?" And now it's like I work for myself, and you go through that rollercoaster every day.

Like, every week it happens.

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: that that's actually, like, the biggest superpower, if you can just not let yourself be comfortable [00:17:00] because... You know, I had 10 role advancements in 10 years of corporate, and that was because my brain was like, "Nope,

Emma: Mm. Yeah, yeah. A- and the, there's the bit that I absolutely love there, and it's something I say often as well of like, "No one's coming to save you." A- and I think that sometimes it can sound a bit harsh perhaps, but actually I think the complete opposite is true. I actually think it's really liberating because once you realize that, once you're like, "It's on me," like, "There is no one coming to save me.

The cavalry is not coming over the hill. It is down to me," I actually think that's quite freeing because it just allows you to go, "Okay. Well, I'm gonna have to figure it out then. I'm just gonna have to get on with it." A- and I actually think it helps you stop feeling stuck because I think sometimes in feeling stuck there's a bit of a, a waiting or a not knowing.

But actually there's massive clarity in knowing there's no one [00:18:00] coming. You've, you've just gotta do it.

Kim James: No, and I say to people, "If no one's coming to do it for you, no one's coming to stop you." Like, "No one's coming

Emma: Ex-

Kim James: 'No, you

Emma: exactly. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And it, it's so cool as well to, to hear you say that you essentially kind of pitched your way into your, at that time, your, your dream job. And I really think, I mean, it's probably a bit of a cliche to say, but it's so true that sales is the ultimate skill, and being able to sell yourself in, in your career is just so important.

And I think it's kind of weird that somewhere along the line, like sales became a bit of a dirty word and, and even just saying, you know, "You've got to be able to sell yourself," I can imagine people hearing that and like, you know, recoiling physically and going, "Oh, that just sounds really cringe." But isn't that just life?

Like you, you've gotta be able to say, "This is what I'm good at. This is the value I bring. I think I can really have an impact [00:19:00] here." A- and as you said there, it's not like you say that and the doors just kind of open sesame. You have then got to put together the business case. You've got to do the hard yards.

You've got to do the work. You-- even once you're in the role, you've then got to prove that you can do it. But if you hadn't have done that in the first place, as you said, it wouldn't have happened.

Kim James: No, exactly. And for... Exactly that. I think as well, if there was one thing I wish that I actually had more in my life and more in my career was sales training. I actually wish that I... I'd done sales training, I, I will say a few times with organizations, but I wish I actually did work in a sales role because I just think the am- the level that that would've given me of rejection getting over rejection sensitivity.

Like that, I think, is one of

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: people are so worried about, "But what if they reject

Emma: That's fine. [00:20:00] Yeah.

Kim James: the end of the day, if you don't take control of your career, someone else will. And I tell you what, they're not coming to give you

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: because you're good at your job. You'll probably stay where you are because then it's easier and they'll think, "Oh, she doesn't want any more.

She's never said anything." Or, you know, if you, like me, you become redundant, then that could happen. A business has to make a decision and you're out. And then, or you wanna pivot and change into something else, no one's gonna do it for you. So I say to people that I actually think that it is more energy telling yourself, "No, I'm happy," and, "No, I don't wanna leave," and, "No, this is fine."

It's actually more energy 'cause you're in a more of a battle with yourself. When you just let go of that frame of telling yourself, "No, no, this is not a good idea to do and I'm fine, I'm fine," then that's where you feel, like, a lot more liberated to be like, "All right. Well, what am I gonna do?" Because you actually realize that it's really the opportunities come to the [00:21:00] people that put themselves out there and have that level of audacity.

And the more you do it and the higher you get up, you just realize there's just a lot less people that do that.

Emma: Absolutely. And I think I absolutely think it becomes, it becomes self-fulfilling and it becomes self-reinforcing because the more you do it, the more you see the results. And, and that initial fear that, let's be honest, I think everyone feels. I've, I've yet to meet someone who says, "Oh, no, I never felt like that."

But again, the more you do it, it's a little bit less the next time, and a little bit less, and a little bit less, and you keep going, you keep going. You, you mentioned that, that kind of fear of rejection there, and I totally agree with you. I think it is something that... I mean, I think it's just part of human nature, isn't it?

We're, we're all kind of wired, wired that way. But how, how did you either get over it or perhaps more realistically get comfortable with it? 'Cause I, I... maybe we never actually fully get over it, but was it just a case of, like, exposure therapy and just keep doing it? Tell me, [00:22:00] talk me, talk me through it.

Kim James: I think a really hard part of it, and especially content online, is that there's a lot of pieces

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: doesn't have the evidence that you can do the hard thing.

So by doing it, then you go... say to your brain, "Ah, no, that's actually not too scary," and then you go for the next thing. So by building that, it's like building a muscle of, like, showing. Because the biggest thing is you can't control whether they say yes, you can't control whether you lose your job, you can't control any of that.

The only thing you can control is you. So you have to become so just, like not like delusionally, like, you know, optimistic of yourself, but just, like, so just ingrained with yourself to back yourself regardless. And it doesn't matter what will happen, I will figure it out and I back me. And so I really am someone that, like, I have to have evidence-based confidence and I say to myself, "Oh, it's not...

You're not bad at it, you just haven't done it [00:23:00] before." And it's building that muscle, and then you'll realize this will be s- like the last one that you had or that first job when you work in hospitality and you don't know how to use the till, and you don't know how to read tables, and you don't know how to use the dishwasher, and it's horrible, and you go home and you cry.

But then three months later, it's easy. And it's like because we all

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: to then

Emma: Yeah. Yep.

Kim James: Same with myself with

Emma: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kim James: shit-scared. But you just

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: like, "No, it's not that I'm bad at it, it's just that I haven't done it before, and it's new." And I just said that to myself each time, and then built that confidence in

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:00] And

Kim James: you know, was very hard to me and used to scare me.

But it's all evidence for me. Like I would love- do a lot more of manifestation and things like that. I definitely, visualization, know the goal to get through it, but to me, my brain needs the evidence for sure.

Emma: also I think I completely agree with everything you've, you've said there. I think- I think there's a misunderstanding about what confidence is or, like, where confidence comes in the process. And like you said there, I think a lot of people assume that confidence is the first [00:25:00] step. I have to have confidence in order for me to be able to do something.

But it's not. The first step is actually doing the thing. It's actually the action, and then as you said, you build the evidence and that's where the confidence comes. Like, once you've done the thing and, and once you've kind of become a bit more competent and, and worked all of that out. As you said in the beginning, it's just being terrified and kinda doing it anyway to, you know, to use the book title, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.

And I think that's often where a lot of people get stuck. They're waiting for a feeling. I'm waiting to feel ready. I'm waiting to feel confident. And it's, and it's, it's not a feeling, it's a decision. I am ready. I'm gonna do it now. I'm gonna take the action.

Kim James: Yes.

Emma: and, and backing yourself to do it. And then, yeah, and then as you, as you say, you, you build that evidence and you can look at it and go, "Well, actually, last time I, you know, jumped off the cliff, I, I figured it out.

Okay. You know, maybe it wasn't a 10 out of 10 dive, but I figured it out like it, it was okay." [00:26:00] So you do it again, and back to that point about it becoming a bit more kind of reinforcing and, and almost self-fulfilling. I heard this great reframe a little while ago about imposter syndrome, and it really stuck with me because, I mean, for one, we've pathologized it and we call it a syndrome when, you know, it's not a, it's not a medical thing.

But actually it's a signal to you that you're doing something that you haven't done before, and that is actually something to be celebrated because you're challenging yourself and you're pushing yourself. So instead of having this slightly negative view about it and like, "Oh, it means, you know, I'm in a room that I'm not meant to be in," or, "I'm not good enough," or, or whatever it might be, it actually means the complete opposite.

It means that you're taking action. It means that you're pushing yourself and it means that you're challenging yourself, and they're all really good things.

Kim James: Yeah, completely agree. And if anything, I now definitely have that,

Emma: [00:27:00] that advice, the skills to do my job, like my skills as a Mm-hmm. That I definitely now Yeah.

Kim James: a person is what I would say.

My favorite

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: are very interesting and very interested. And I do find that,

Emma: I just find that, like, trying to have some positive Yeah.

Kim James: and

Emma: Oh, cool

Kim James: get better and better at it constantly. 

Emma: Think

Kim James: play golf, and I just think that's really one that's going

Emma: I'm

Kim James: like, push the boundaries with you of your competence. 

Emma: Enough

Kim James: by doing

Emma: to learn golf.

Kim James: think it's bu- definitely building

Emma: But it's [00:28:00] a, I think that's a really good point actually, because it shows that you don't necessarily have to make that initial scary decision in your work life, that you can build some of that evidence in your outside of work life, in a hobby where perhaps the stakes aren't as high.

You know, if you mess up at golf, it doesn't really matter. Or if you, you know, get the, get the what's the phrase I'm searching for? It's not sequence. In boxing, I can't think of it. But it doesn't matter if you get that. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong and, and then you can build that and then take that into your into your career and into your work life.

That's actually a really smart way of, a really smart way of doing it. The other thing I really liked that you said there, and I, I think I liked it 'cause it resonated with me 'cause I think I'm wired that way a bit too, is that you said you, you make an effort to kind of reflect on whatever the period of time is, a week, a month, and say, "These are all the things that I have done."

Because I think often it's quite easy to default. I do it. I default to [00:29:00] what I haven't done. I default to the stuff that didn't go as well,

Kim James: Mm-hmm.

Emma: easy to kind of overlook some of that what might feel quite incremental at the time, but actually when you look at it and go, "Oh, no, that's actually, like, a really big deal.

Like, I that's-- I should be celebrating that. Like, that was that was a good thing."

Kim James: Yeah. Oh, absolutely, and I think it's something that I have also just met a, a lot of women that have probably got a- about 10 years or so on me, and listening to them talk about the

Emma: Yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: you just-- You don't see

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: I try to definitely now force myself to see that a lot more because I look back at what was a regular day back then, and I'm like, "They were the glory years." Like, I miss being a marketing coordinator, and I miss having the team, and I miss figuring it out, and social was this new, fun, exciting thing.

And it's just I now really [00:30:00] try to make sure that I'm a lot more present, and you will actually enjoy it a lot more. Like, you'll get out of bed every day, and so many people say to me, they're like, "How do you do it all? Like, do you ever just, like, switch off?" I'm like, "I love it." And because I definitely am a huge person of practicing being very, like, in the present moment, because I know that in five years' time, I'll look back how I look back now to 10 years ago and be like, "Oh, they were the glory days."

And it's just like, otherwise you're on the hedonic treadmill, and you'll get to a point where you realise a following size doesn't make you happy, or numbers in the bank account don't make you happy, or those little things along the way that... As well as with, you know, making financial kinda goals that you

Emma: You know, basic financial kind of

Kim James: money,

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: definitely as well make

Emma: Like I also definitely as well make sure they do find things that

Kim James: And next

Emma: I think, "Wow, that's so cool."

Kim James: a keynote for RMIT

Emma: Because it's

Kim James: And

Emma: for RMI different

Kim James: to 

Emma: I had someone who went to

Kim James: one of

Emma: secondary school with one of my roles, like, third year in Australia, and of course they all get [00:31:00] into- Yeah.

Super cool

Kim James: Yeah. And I just have that moment, I just sit with then, like, the younger version of myself that just, I really like to think of having conversation with that younger version and, and they'd be like, "What do you mean this is your life? Like, what do you mean we're doing those things?"

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: actually just feel so much more happiness, regardless of that you are

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: are the times where it's really gonna challenge me that I know I will grow."

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. And I think those are the thing, things that ultimately feel more meaningful. Like as you say, you know, yes, obviously the practical elements, the financial goals, all of those things, I'm not suggesting that they're not important. But at the end of, you know, to, [00:32:00] to get grandiose about it, at the end of our lives, are we gonna lie on our deathbeds and think about those things?

Probably not. Like, there's probably other things, connections with other people, you know, love, all of that kind of thing that's gonna feel far more important. And I think those moments where you actually have an opportunity to, to give back, and I, I love the way you phrased it as, as kind of picturing your younger self and, and actually giving advice to, to that person.

And I think e- even as she was saying that, you know, I was picturing kind of picturing myself in the room kind of hearing that as a, as a, as a young graduate. And like, what an amazing message for someone to hear. Like that, that you, back to the earlier point, that you are in control of this. You, you might at this moment in time feel like maybe you have limited options, but you just need to broaden, you just need to kind of broaden your sights.

Like there is a whole world of opportunity out there.

Kim James: Yeah

Emma: doesn't mean it's gonna be easy, doesn't mean it's gonna fall in your lap. In fact, it probably means the complete [00:33:00] opposite of that. But it is within your power to kind of make those things happen for yourself. And I think that's a really important message for, for everyone, not just for, for graduates, but I think particularly at that point in time, if you can kind of get that lesson early on, I think it will make quite a big difference to how people how people approach, approach their careers.

Kim James: Yeah, for sure. And I

Emma: That,

Kim James: media, you know, is... Sorry, you go.

Emma: No, no, go ahead.

Kim James: I was just gonna say, I don't think social media plays a big role into that because, you know, social media, we say it

Emma: Yeah

Kim James: be an overnight success. If you think about from an Instagram perspective, it's been, you know and it's probably its height is the last ten years. So we're seeing people that we didn't see the, the, got them there.

We're seeing these people that we're just seeing the

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: everyone gets up and on it, and it's like, well, you know, you saw them get hit down nine times before you saw the tenth kind of opportunity as well. And I think that I wish that was something that I gave myself more grace for 'cause there was [00:34:00] a lot of times there where I genuinely was like, "Oh my God, I'm wasting so much time."

Like, I think I spent two and a half years in operations at the beginning, and I thought that was the biggest time waster, and it was... That was like a blimp. Like that was... I could probably do that again now and, like, still have an opportunity. And I think we think that our career is, you know, we have to have it all perfect in the first ten years.

Your career is very long. You're gonna be working for a very long time. Like, you can have eight different careers.

Emma: Yeah. And also, I think there's no such thing as perfect. You know, the, the idea of, you know, what, what perhaps would've been true maybe silly 20 years ago of perhaps a more linear progression that was more common, shall we say. I, I just don't see that anymore. I, I just don't see that that is the path that most people, the, the path that most people walk.

It's an analogy I've, I've used before, but I think it's a really good one of, of thinking instead of the ladder, the climbing wall, because it just kinda gives a much more, I think, real world perspective of [00:35:00] there's not just this one very linear path. You've got multiple options. You can go left, you can go right, you can go back, you can go diagonally, you can, you know, hang upside down on the side, whatever, whatever it is.

There's, there's lots of different options to you. And I think it's interesting 'cause I do find it is often people who are a bit younger, who are at that graduate level, who I think can get a little bit locked into that thinking of it does need to be perfect. I need to make the right first step. I have to get it right.

And all of that I think is, can be, A, a little bit overwhelming and, and actually probably closes you down to opportunities when actually you want to be doing the opposite. You want to be opening yourself up to opportunities because as you said, you know, that first step might not look how you think it's gonna look, but it might actually be the, the best, the best first step you can take at that point in time, and the first step that sets you on a, a path which will ultimately get you to where you want to go.[00:36:00] 

But it might just not look like that in the beginning.

Kim James: No, and also like if it was perfect, it'd be a pretty boring story, you know? Like the

Emma: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Kim James: like

Emma: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: every, every Disney movie goes through the exact same hero's journey, like the

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: And y- you know, you don't have a look at some of the movies that we grew up with, and it's just, you know, perfection happened.

So I often say that I'm a very big person of building really good lore. Like I just love people that are so

Emma: Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Kim James: comfortable with now, and now when I meet those people and you're just like, "Wow, you are so interesting," I just... That's my [00:37:00] goal, is to be really interesting and really interested.

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a good goal. I, I concur. The the other thing I wanted to ask you about, Kim, is obviously AI is, is kind of everywhere, and it's on everyone's lips, and I think particularly for, for marketers. And it's interesting, I, I, I think it seems to sort of fall into two camps.

There's a lot of doom and gloom and, you know, the robots are coming for us and it's all over. And then there's another camp of that it's gonna be some, like, ultimate nirvana, and then we don't kinda hear much in the middle of where I suspect the as is often the way, the, the answer is gonna be somewhere there in the middle.

How, how do you see it all and, and having, you know, developed and, and woven that into, to your new business as well? Yeah, just really interested in your perspective on what's happening at the moment.

Kim James: For sure, and I absolutely appreciate people's concerns with it 100%, and I'm very aware that women usually sway to have more of those concerns, and that's where there's a lot of conversation [00:38:00] this week of women are adopting it not as fast of a speed and there's-- 'cause there's more concerns. What

Emma: I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: completely agree with that. I don't believe it's going

Emma: where my first job was

Kim James: computer.

Emma: data and three jobs. That job don't have But when

Kim James: it, it's

Emma: to move into it,

Kim James: want

Emma: not going in there through the

Kim James: and in the

Emma: people

Kim James: and utilizing it in the right ways

Emma: right way is

Kim James: how we

Emma: part of that,

Kim James: be in

Emma: is deciding how we want AI to decide. Regardless of

Kim James: of it or

Emma: if it's decided, I personally feel we're gonna go into it

Kim James: that,

Emma: not.

Yeah. So I'm very comfortable with that because I And a lot of times,

Kim James: for

Emma: you know, defines what that meant for careers and how you show up. And I think like, look, [00:39:00] you know, I example where I'm coming from today from a lot of,

Kim James: straight

Emma: it comes just to that as

Kim James: I, I

Emma: I was just straight out of my MBA and I had built that right together with everything because of

Kim James: So now

Emma: other variables.

Mm-hmm. Now I'm like very comfortable I do well like going through the journey of actually having that role and type way. So I-

Kim James: in

Emma: Like those things that you're really involved. So for example, when I started in social media,

Kim James: because

Emma: was hard to get a job

Kim James: in the full

Emma: wanted to get that experience with

Kim James: was Pho-Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere

Emma: full job basically.

Yeah.

Kim James: on

Emma: So it's probably not- Yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: you couldn't actually

Emma: And

Kim James: a job, but

Emma: like also

Kim James: a

Emma: get a job, but they need a job

Kim James: it was

Emma: to teach the

Kim James: a year.

Emma: technology. Yeah.

Kim James: look at it now when it's, like, things like CapCut

Emma: it's like kind of like,

Kim James: "Oh, it's gonna ruin the design industry."

Emma: when it's all sort of designed for creators, but it's also like- Mm-hmm

Kim James: It created opportunities for people to monetize

Emma: can

Kim James: for personal

Emma: [00:40:00] themselves.

Kim James: to

Emma: like my Instagram,

Kim James: tools

Emma: that kind of like needs to

Kim James: that.

Emma: allow people to do that.

So I have a lot of people that I know have a business right now and I know they're absolutely very viable

Kim James: think,

Emma: business plans. But I look at that and think, well,

Kim James: open

Emma: that is

Kim James: it

Emma: definitely more than a full-time job as well and can take up a lot of weight. Like

Kim James: it.

Emma: am a creator. I sit at a computer every day, but like this doesn't take away from the creative side of things.

Yeah. Like I think it's important that we're planning it in that regard, but yeah it was a privilege that,

Kim James: creative

Emma: lot of

Kim James: But

Emma: people haven't had it that way, their way to do it. But I do think as someone that grew up in a country that

Kim James: use the

Emma: to go to university and do technology,

Kim James: that

Emma: I did always start

Kim James: do

Emma: role where someone's doing and then I could teach myself.

I didn't need

Kim James: you know,

Emma: university. I just needed

Kim James: could have

Emma: internet.

Kim James: I us-

Emma: quite hard even to make AI to do

Kim James: turned the local

Emma: work. Mm-hmm.

Kim James: into a viral sensation and then gone for these jobs and go,

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: I got them two hundred [00:41:00] thousand followers."

And they'd go, "Amazing. Look how good you are." Like, I could have created an internship for myself on my phone for free.

Emma: And I think that's quite like I've been able to support myself. Yeah. Yeah. It, it's such an important point, and I, I do think it is one that gets overlooked. As you say, I, I-- again, maybe it's a bit of human nature. I, I think we tend to catastrophize perhaps a little bit too much, or it becomes about the doom and gloom.

And like you said, sure, you know, there's, there's concerns,

Kim James: Mm.

Emma: all of that, all of that kind of thing. But let's not actually lose sight of the possibilities and, and let's not lose sight of what it can do for people. And as you say, particularly for creators and, and, and marketers more broadly. I find it quite interesting that I think when we were first kind of hearing about, about AI and there was an almost default response that it was gonna take away creative jobs.

It was gonna s- you know, copywriters we'll never hear from them again. They're done. And it kind of hasn't really [00:42:00] turned out like that because it, it turns out that AI isn't great at everything and, and maybe kind of AI plus human is, is gonna be the the most effective solution. And I also think more broadly that for marketers- So many of those kind of core human skills that I think we probably all will need to lean into more, so many of those kind of sit in the wheelhouse of marketing.

Storytelling, you know, creative thinking, strategic thinking,

Kim James: Mm.

Emma: not just regurgitating strategy from other places in, in the way that AI would. And so I, I, I understand that sort of initial kind of fearful response, but I think there's so much there and that if people are perhaps a little bit more, I was gonna say open-minded, I don't know if that's the right word, but certainly if they lean into it and, and use it more and just figure it out for themselves and, and actually figure out what it can do for them.

And I love your [00:43:00] example there of, again, kind of, you know, younger you sitting there with all these tools and you're like, "I could have created an internship for myself." Like, what an amazing thing to be able to do. Like, what an opportunity that is.

Kim James: Yeah, and I think something that I love that, you know, there's a lot

Emma: I love that Yeah. And that makes a lot of questions

Kim James: the media controlled, and now we have that

Emma: Yeah. Yeah.

Kim James: broader.

That came from those

Emma: And that's where I love to work with that, and I'm very passionate about that. We have a lot of

Kim James: we've

Emma: clients that go, "Well, we made a video

Kim James: this in

Emma: just like that." So that's something that I am very passionate about as well. And then the graphic design aspect of like

Kim James: up. Like, [00:44:00] I still spend a very

Emma: 100%.

And where is it good about rebranding that?

Kim James: Do I still pay someone

Emma: Yes. You know, you still pay someone to do it. Yeah.

Kim James: "Oh, I got rid of my social media manager, and they did two hundred posts in eight minutes," I'm like, "Yeah, I know.

We can tell." Like, we, we know.

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: You all look the

Emma: I

Kim James: Yeah,

Emma: did those posts too.

Kim James: that

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: the, like, "Oh, you know, I just scheduled all my posts and AI made them all," show me one that went viral and show me one that drove business outcomes, and it cannot be about

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: Claude about how to use Claude.

I've never had anyone actually tell me any of those that it's worked for. So I think as well the AI slop is just an amplification is probably how as a society, we s- there was so much demand to be everywhere, we actually went quite tactical, but I think that now if we can actually

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: with a lot less friction, that means creativity will come back into it.

Because if everyone sounds a bit sloppy, it's actually not harder to stand

Emma: Yeah

Kim James: and that's the [00:45:00] fun part.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, totally, totally agree. Final question, Kim. That's gone very quickly. We're, we're already at the final question. Could talk to you for hours. And that is, what do you know now that you wish you knew then?

Kim James: Closed mouths don't get fed. It's something that I've spoken a lot about this year and a few times and, you know, as I said to you as well in terms of I definitely went through those periods where I thought and I had to have that realization of no one's coming to, to do it for me. That if you sit back and you wait for it to happen for you, it's not going to. Whether or not that is going for the role or going for the money or going for the opportunity, like all these things and what I do now speaking to you on this, we met on that panel or I'm speaking next week, that all came because I put a voice out there. And yeah, I

Emma: Yeah.

Kim James: that I'd probably... I've only really kind of talked publicly and, you know,

Emma: [00:46:00] Yeah.

Kim James: as well, that I had that confidence as well, 'cause I think how much of an impact I could've had probably when I was a lot more alongside people.

Like, I'm 33 now, and I'm in the

Emma: Mm.

Kim James: Could I have had that more with the first time I got into management and, you know, been able to have that alongside others? So yeah, that's definitely something that closed mouths don't get fed.

Emma: Great advice. I love it. Thank you so much, Kim. Really appreciate you taking the time to, to chat and share your super interesting journey and, and everything that you've learnt so far, and I look forward to seeing what happens with Wedge, and I'm sure many, many great things, and look forward to following along.

Kim James: Thank you. Much appreciated.

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