How to Create Career Opportunities Instead of Waiting for Them

Isabel Thomson-Officer didn't follow a carefully mapped-out career plan. She built her career by creating opportunities that didn't exist, asking for chances others wouldn't, and backing herself long before she felt completely ready.

What stands out throughout this conversation isn't just the career moves, it's the mindset behind them. Isabel talks honestly about persistence, taking calculated risks, hearing "no" more times than she'd like, and why some of the biggest opportunities in her career only happened because she was willing to ask.

In this episode, we discuss:

•  Creating opportunities instead of waiting for the perfect role 
•  How Isabel built her first PR role while still studying 
•  Taking the leap to New York and what hustle culture really teaches you 
•  Building a career in marketing and communications across multiple industries 
•  Why persistence matters more than having the perfect plan 
•  Networking in Melbourne and building genuine professional relationships 
•  Practical advice for reaching out to people and creating your own opportunities 
•  Mentoring, giving back and growing your professional network 
•  Why vulnerability has become one of Isabel's greatest leadership strengths 
•  The importance of backing yourself before you feel completely ready 

Whether you're just starting out, considering a career move, or looking for a fresh perspective on leadership and career growth, Isabel's story is a reminder that careers are rarely linear and that some of the biggest opportunities begin with simply asking.

To connect with Isabel:

linkedin.com/in/isabel-thomson-officer

Can you also find episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaGrahamCareerCoach/videos

Your host, Emma Graham, Career Coach and ex-recruiter, is here to help you with:

 💡 Gain clarity on what’s important to you
 💡 Confidently communicate your value
 💡 Build a personal brand and a strong network
 💡 Take a strategic approach to your next move
 💡 Navigate the job market effectively
 💡 Build career confidence with a repeatable success blueprint

🌐 Explore my coaching programs and free resources:
 Website: https://www.egconsulting.au/
 LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/emmajgraham
 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emmagrahamcareercoach/

🎁 Free Resources:
 📄 CV Development Guide: https://www.egconsulting.au/cv-advice
 📄 LinkedIn Profile Optimisation Guide: https://www.egconsulting.au/linkedin-profile-guide

📅 Book Your FREE Career Strategy Discovery Call:
 https://calendly.com/emmagrahamconsulting/discovery-call

Transcript

Emma: I am joined this morning by Isabel. Welcome

Isabel: Thank you, Emma. It's great to be here[00:01:00] 

Emma: Great to have you with me. Let's, let's go back to the beginning when you were kind of starting to think about what you might wanna do with your career, perhaps as that time in school where they're asking you what you think might come next. What did you think might come next? Take me, take me back. What were your, what were your thoughts at that time?

Isabel: Oh my goodness, so many things. I've always been someone that just kind of wants to do a little bit of everything. So, always had a lot of drive, but wasn't very clear exactly which path I was gonna take. But there are a few things I definitely knew I wanted. I wanted to travel, and I wanted to get paid to be able to do that, and I wanted to

Emma: That's a good goal.

Isabel: Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it's... it

Emma: I couldn't care.

Isabel: more glamorous a little more glamorous than it actually is in theory, but yeah, it is sometimes a nice perk. and then, yeah, that I wanted to just basically get out and see the world. in year 10, I actually went into year 11 initially wanting to be a zoologist, so I'd [00:02:00] signed up for science, all the maths things, things I actually wasn't very good at at all, and honestly, probably wasn't even that passionate about animals.

So I'm not really sure where that one came from. But, yeah, quickly did a pivot to more humanities, English literature, and was very set on, becoming a journalist. so that was kind of my initial trajectory and the path I was heading towards. I'd grown up playing classical violin, and I got to about an AMus level. My father's a violin teacher, so I was playing from the time I was three to about 17 and, yeah, I, I learned very early on that, talent will only get you so far. Drive is what you need to take you all the way, 

and I had the talent, I didn't have the drive. I didn't like to practice, so career

Emma: That's gonna cause an issue, yeah.

Isabel: Yeah. but yeah, essentially, so I finished high school when I was 17 and, took a year off, traveled on my own for about six months, and then came back and started a journalism degree. I got about [00:03:00] six months in and realized I hated writing hard news. I had no interest in being on television or radio, and that was kind of what the next few years was looking like.

I just wanted to feature write, and I just didn't have the patience to, to stick it out. So I ended up actually dropping out, I kind of just kicked around for a few years, if I'm totally honest. I worked in hospitality, a number of restaurants, bakeries, cafes. Movida actually was kind of one that really changed a lot of things for me. I came in as a server working on the floor and, after, know, a few, a few knockoff drinks on a few occasions, next to Frank Camorra, the celebrity chef and owner, 

I, managed to convince him that he needed a, a publicist and that, you know, this social media thing was starting to take off, and God, this must have been- 2010, 2011, I think. I actually just enrolled, in PR, so I was doing the advanced diploma, at RMIT of Business and Public [00:04:00] Relations. So, he eventually, gave me a shot, probably more to shut me up than anything. But it was a role that didn't exist, and so it was something that I really built for myself, totally from scratch while I was still studying and essentially working full-time hours at the same time.

but yeah, that role, I got to do some really cool things. I was entrusted with producing the, Movida 10-year, laneway party in Hosier Lane for 400 guests, which was really special. It was, I think, the first time City of Melbourne had ever let us close the laneway off for a semi-private event. I think we got around it by offering, like, 50 tickets, up for grabs through Fairfax. And then, yeah, launched the $1 Bread for Change charity campaign, which in its first year raised $80,000 for various charities that we always aligned with,

Emma: Cool

Isabel: that the staff were really passionate about. And yeah, just lots of really fun wine dinners with Fairfax, the International Melbourne Food and Wine Festival.

guess it was just, an early example in my career of, you know, my first sort of real job in PR came from something that actually didn't [00:05:00] exist. I didn't wait for it. I just sort of jumped in and put my hands up and,

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: built a case for the need. Yeah

Emma: been really cool to be doing that alongside study, 'cause there must have been an element of, well, I'm learning this kind of theory and then I get to try stuff out and, and do the kind of the practical application of it as I go along

Isabel: Oh, absolutely. And I mean, yeah, I was so green on the job. I mean, yeah, there's definitely some things that I look back on now, I'm like, "Ooh, that should probably never have happened." But hey, you live and you learn, right? It's the best 

way. 

Emma: all, we've all done a variation of that somewhere along the line.

Isabel: Absolutely. but yeah, and then as soon as, I finished studying, I had my sights very much set on New York.

I'd had a boyfriend when I was 21 back when I wasn't really sure exactly what I wanted to do, but he was moving to New York to pursue a career in acting, and he was going to the Stella Adler Academy where Marlon Brando had gone, and he just knew exactly what he

Emma: cool. Yeah

Isabel: Yeah, and I think that sort of, direction really rubbed [00:06:00] off on me.

I sort of turned around and realized that I need to work out what I wanna do and,

Emma: Mm.

Isabel: at that point when I enrolled in PR. But went over for three months, that relationship fell apart, but, I fell in love with the city, and so I knew I would be back as soon as I could, but doing it on my own terms and that I wanted to live and work there. And then, yeah, I guess, jumped on a plane two weeks after graduating and, yeah, landed in New York City. such a

Emma: Very cool.

Isabel: Yeah, it was

Emma: Yeah. What was the time gap there between deciding you were gonna go and going? How much, how much time was there in that?

Isabel: Three and a half years

Emma: Okay.

Isabel: Yeah. 

Yeah, so I'm, I'm a person that once I make my mind up about something, I 

am very determined and I stick to it. Takes me a 

while to get there, but once I have there's not much stopping me. and then yeah, so got to New York and, just the pace of everything was really full on. I landed an internship with a lifestyle tech agency at the same [00:07:00] time. That was five days a week, and then I worked in a restaurant five nights a week. so it was a real hustle like most people do when they, when they land there in the Big Apple. but I was early on trusted with some pretty big accounts.

I worked on HelloFresh, on their Series E, investment round with Rocket Ventures. I worked with Landor and Warner Music Group on their Series A announcement. And, yeah, I think I was working across 13 accounts at one point,

Emma: Wow, that's a lot.

Isabel: Yeah, too 

Emma: Yeah 

Isabel: too much. So last too long there, but, then went in-house to a very sweet restaurant, which, no longer actually exists in New York, called Flinders Lane, and it was very much a homage to Flinders Lane in Melbourne. but I worked on the floor, but also acted as their marketing and events manager. It was a role that felt very natural after having done that at Movida.

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: but yeah, did lots of partnerships with the Australian Consulate General and the New Zealand UN Security Council. but yeah, it was in 2017, I think, that I decided I wanted to have a bit more of a pivot [00:08:00] and combine my passion for music, particularly dance music and comms, and I, pursued a agency that I had been researching for some time called Plexi PR that was run by a woman called Betty Kane, who was kind of like the queen of underground, house and techno music in, America. yeah, she didn't have a job for me, but I was very persistent, and I just offered to work for her for free for two days a week for three months, and then she could see how she felt and maybe hire me after that. So, did that, was hired, got promoted after six months. I had an amazing time. It was such a fun job to have in my 20s.

we looked after destination music festivals such as Secret Solstice in Iceland, which is held over the summer solstice, so the sun just

Emma: Oh, yeah. Super cool. 

I worked Oasis Festival in Morocco a few years. We did the BPM Festival in Mexico, Portugal and Costa Rica. that was quite a journey, particularly the [00:09:00] Mexico edition in 2017. A

Isabel: yeah, it

Emma: logistical challenges maybe in trying to put on a festival?

Isabel: yeah, it, yes, it was, it was tough that year. and

Emma: Yeah, I'm sure there's some stories there. Yeah.

Isabel: Yeah. and then, yeah, looking after some, you know, musical artists like, Nicole Moudaber, Octave One, doing some other bits and pieces With other underground European talent, when they would tour the States.

And yeah, got some, quite good, press coverage up my sleeve during that time, a few front pages, and, collaborating with Time Magazine on, Secret Solstice, which was very cool. but yeah, it was kind of ... I don't know, I think I was about three years into that, and I remember just looking around, backstage at maybe, like, 3:00 in the morning, and I saw people that were about 15, 20 years older than me running around doing what I was doing. I thought, "Ooh, do I really wanna be doing this, like, 15, 20 years from now?"

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: no.

Emma: all-consuming.

Isabel: Yeah

Emma: life, I'd [00:10:00] imagine. Yeah

Isabel: Absolutely. And, you know, it was one of those jobs that paid in thrills, not bills.

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: so,

Emma: Yeah

a perfectly appropriate job to have in your 20s. Yeah, absolutely.

Isabel: I, I love it. but yeah, I felt like I needed to broaden my horizons a bit more and, yeah, it's at that point I started looking around for another job and came across Manifest, and I'd never heard of the agency, but I just loved the work that they did, the creativity, and probably most importantly, I felt like the values of the business really spoke to me on a deeply personal level.

They felt very aligned 

with, you know, how I try to, live my life and show up. And so I think I applied on the Sunday, got an email back on the Monday inviting in for coffee, had coffee with two of them on the Tuesday, had a second coffee on the Thursday, and I think I was hired by Friday. It was the fastest hiring

Emma: A whirlwind.

Isabel: my life.

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: and so I joined them as an, junior account manager, and [00:11:00] then I was promoted to account manager after three months and, yeah, helped run a number of their accounts, helped launch, production for them in the US, did a number of shoots in Vancouver and Toronto and LA, and, yeah, was absolutely loving it.

but yeah, it was early 2020 when I was going home for a friend's wedding for two weeks and my, then-husband,

Emma: I know what's coming next, yeah.

Isabel: stayed

Emma: Thought

Isabel: he

Emma: I was popping home for a wedding, Yeah

Isabel: yeah, that's... Yeah, making jokes about toilet paper on the plane. Oh my God. And then, yeah, a lot changed in that second 

week. I, I think I landed in Melbourne on March 7th, and I think we were in lockdown by like the 14th or the 15th or maybe a few days 

later. And yeah, sort of ummed and aahed and I bought a plane ticket and I canceled my plane ticket and then, yeah, just had a very frank conversation with my family that I was potentially one less person they would have to get out of America 'cause no one really knew 

yeah, as I said, my, [00:12:00] ex-husband was over there, then husband, and my brother had just moved over and so, yeah, it was, A big decision, I guess, to make very quickly, but ultimately the right one, 'cause, yeah, my, ex-partner and I had always talked about moving to Australia.

It would be easier to live here versus there and

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: and so we just kind of fast-tracked our plans and yeah, I handed in my notice, at Manifest and enrolled in an MBA thinking I was gonna be unemployed and just thought, "Well, I may as well do something and, you know, grow my knowledge and study,"

Emma: Yep

Isabel: know, a bit of a student of life like that. yeah, then the CEO and founder Alex called me from London and, asked me to run Australia. And I guess the gift of naivety, I was like, "Yeah, sure. 

Why 

Emma: sure. I can do that.

Isabel: yeah, 

Emma: it's the classic Richard Branson thing of you say yes and then you work out how to do it afterwards.

Isabel: Ah, that was completely what I did. and yeah, six years later, here I am, [00:13:00] co-founder and managing director at Manifest. And yeah,

Emma: Cool

Isabel: quite a journey, but, a really

Emma: there's so many things that stand out, but the, the one that probably stands out more than anything is the creating opportunities for yourself. Certainly with the MoVida of, you know, the job didn't exist, and you're basically pitching yourself into this job and, and he agrees.

And even though, i- in the other examples, the job kind of existed, but even just finding... I forget the lady's name that you mentioned, like knowing that, well, I love dance music, finding that the lady, the agency that's a super niche thing in the kind of the broad scheme of things, but going, "That, that's where I'm want to be, and I'm gonna make that thing happen for myself."

It, it's that kind of pattern of making it happen for yourself, quite a few times. and it's one of those things, something I talk about a lot on the show and, you know, you say, "Oh, make it happen for yourself," and you're like, [00:14:00] "Yeah, I'll do that." And then you kind of think, "Well, what does, what does that actually mean?

Like, what does that look like? How, how do you even do that? What's the first message? How do you reach out to that person?" Can you, can you kind of put some, some color around what that actually looked like for you and, and the realities of, of what you have to do to create something for yourself in, in that way?

Isabel: I, I mean, I guess I've never really, thought about it in that way before. But I do really firmly believe that if you don't ask, you don't get. And so,

Emma: Absolutely. Yeah.

Isabel: you know, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Someone's gonna

say no or they're just gonna ignore you,

which 

Emma: often 

Isabel: happens, and then you just keep

Emma: Yeah. 

Isabel: I'm also just a very, as I said before, a very determined person. Once I make my mind up about something, I'm going to do what I can to make it happen, and I've never been afraid of working hard and, yeah, burning the candle at both ends, definitely. But sometimes that's what you need to do to get where you wanna be. I'm not saying that I'm advocating for burnout by [00:15:00] any means, but, you don't get things that you really want 

by taking it easy usually

Emma: I think there's a time and a place for it, isn't there? Like, certainly I think in, in different kind of points in, in your career and you kind of look and think, I don't know, you're in your what? Mid- mid-20s, late 20s, living in New York. You're like, well, if you're gonna burn the candle at both ends, like, that's probably the time to do it.

Like,

Isabel: Yes.

Emma: that

Isabel: and the

Emma: seems like the, that seems like the appropriate time.

Isabel: Yeah 

Emma: and as you say, like particularly if you've put yourself in a scenario where you've said, "I'll work for free for two days a week to, to prove myself," yes, you- you've done something pretty awesome to get yourself in that position to, to be given that opportunity, but that's only the first step.

Then you've got to earn the opportunity by showing and proving that you can actually do it. it's not just, "Oh, and then they, and then they offered me a job," as if by magic. It's like, no, I, you know, [00:16:00] I'm sure worked incredibly hard for those, what probably turned out to not be two days a week, and presumably you're working somewhere else to support the work that you're doing for free and, and, you know, kind of having to, to, to figure it out as you go along.

And I think that's the bit that sometimes gets missed, you know? People take the, "Oh, you know, it's amazing. You, you just asked the question and then it all fell into your lap," as if that's how the world works. Well, yes, you have to ask the question. As you say, don't ask, don't get. I'm a huge believer in that as well, but that, that's only the first bit.

Then you've gotta prove that you're good enough for, for them to, to give you the role

Isabel: Completely. And I think just showing up and being the best that you possibly can be and, you know, knowing that you've really given it your all, being really true to yourself

Emma: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I'm, I'm a big believer as well in, like, the things that you regret in life are not the things that you did, they're the things that you didn't do. And I think kind of [00:17:00] looking back and regretting that, you know, I wish I'd tried, or I wish I'd said yes, or even having said yes, I, I wish that I'd actually put my whole heart into it and, and actually really tried.

I think those are the things that, that end up causing regret for people of, well, you know, I didn't really give it my best, or I slightly half-arsed it and, you know, what, what could have been or what if? Like, I think they're the, they're the questions that actually, cause more remorse for people than the I tried, I gave it my best.

And, you know, she said, "What's the worst that could happen?" Either the person says no, or, maybe at the end of the three months there isn't a job and you can go, "Do you know what? I had the most amazing three months. I learned so much. What an awesome experience." there's, there's nothing to regret about that.

and as it was, you know, you, you got the job and, and so starts another, another part of, another part of your career. But I think it's, yeah, I think it's easy to kind of gloss over that sometimes and, [00:18:00] and to just assume that the, that first yes is, is the end of the road. Well, it's actually just the beginning.

and all the hard work kinda comes after that.

Isabel: Yeah, and there's a lot of no's that often happen

Emma: Yeah. 

Isabel: So you just have to remember, you just gotta pick yourself back up again and try again. And there's been times where I've been knocked down where I've really not wanted to do that, but I've just kind of pushed through, and eventually it usually ends up going the way you want it to go. 

Emma: How, how was New York? Tell me, tell me about your, your time in New York in terms of the, the city itself and, and kind of, I guess, moving away and, and living there. How did you, how did you find it?

Isabel: I mean, New York is just, it's like living at the center of the world. That's how I, it felt to me. it's where everything happens. you know, like all the movies are shot. It's got this weird sense of familiarity when you're walking down the

Emma: It

Isabel: even when you've 

Emma: doesn't it? Yeah.

Isabel: every

Emma: Everything looks familiar. 

Isabel: And so yeah, I kind of feel like you [00:19:00] step into New York and off that plane feeling like you already have this quite intimate relationship with the city. And, you know, Sex and the City is a big part of that.

Emma: Yeah. I was gonna say anyone that watched Sex and the... Yeah. Anyone that watched Sex and the City, certainly the fir- you know, the first one, perhaps less so the, the reboot, but, and, and didn't want to go and live in New York. I, I don't know how you could watch that show and not want to go and live in New York.

Isabel: Absolutely. yeah, Samantha Jones definitely had an influence on

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: my PR career for sure. but also I think it's just the, the ambition and the drive that's part of that 

city. You know, everyone that's there is there to pursue their dreams and

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: try to be the best in that particular field, you know. Ordinary just doesn't cut it. You just don't last. And so

Emma: Mm.

Isabel: so, refreshing and inspiring for me to be around many talented, driven people. everyone I knew was doing something amazing and awesome.

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: [00:20:00] And a slash because, yeah, you're an actor/waiter, you're a

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: which I was also moonlighting as for Nine for several years while I was there.

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: because you do just have to hustle, particularly early on, 

because, you know, the pay is not great to start with. Mind you, in the States, you can make a lot more money than you can in Australia,

Emma: Yeah. Yeah.

Isabel: But yeah, it's a real hustle culture, which I love, but I think by the end of the six years, I was a little bit over it, and I was feeling, I was feeling a bit burned out by that point, and I was kind of

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: slower pace, in Australia.

But then I do

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: moments frustrated in Australia where I think, "Oh my God, can everyone just move a little bit quicker, please?"

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: But

Emma: funny, I d- I feel that way too about, about London. I'm, I'm English, but I'm not from London as such. I, I moved there in my... What was I? I was probably 27, 28, something like that. Late, late [00:21:00] 20s. And, and I feel exactly the same way about London. And it's probably not quite as, extreme as New York, but I think it's that very similar point of a lot of the people that you come across in London specifically moved to London to, to pursue a dream, to, you know, try and do something different with their lives.

And it does, it does kind of give that, that sort of energy and that kind of vibe. And a- as you were saying that about New York, I was thinking it's kind of about, finding your people in that sense. Like, finding the people that share the same kind of drive and passion and, and kind of will to succeed that, that you do.

And that in itself is a very special thing, I think, because then on the days when you're, I don't know, perhaps struggling for a bit of motivation or, as you said, you know, you've hap- perhaps had a couple too many nos and and you're kind of struggling a bit, you've, you've got that vibe and that energy to kind of pick you back up.

and I think certainly, certainly New York and London to a certain extent, although I'm not sure [00:22:00] so much anymore, but you can actually feel that energy. Like, you, you can actually feel it walking down, walking down the street, and I think that's quite an incredible, quite an incredible thing. And actually as well, like, quite a brave thing to, to kind of put yourself in that position and just go, "Do you know what?

I'm gonna figure it out."

Isabel: yeah

I mean, again, what's the worst that can happen? That everything failed and I'd have to jump on a plane,

Emma: Yeah, you get on the plane and you come back. Yeah.

Isabel: you know, I did watch people do that as well. 

Emma: Yeah 

Isabel: able to stay 'cause, you know, you gotta, you gotta crack the visa thing and the sponsorship and all

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: too. it's hard. It's a hard city, but

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: teaches you a lot of grit, I think, and that's 

something that, has really stuck with me since my time there

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. W- was the visa thing challenging? Was that, was that quite difficult to, to figure out?

Isabel: no, actually it wasn't. as Australians, we're in a very unique position, [00:23:00] with visas to the US. So the J1 visa, you can go over after a year of study tertiary education and then work in sort of an entry-level role, and you can do that for 12 months and travel for two months. but then the visa that is absolute gold is the E3 visa, and that's

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: visa for Australians.

So you do need to have a degree or I believe 12 years experience in your field,

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Isabel: and you need a job offer. That's, that's the tricky part. You need the job offer.

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: Um, once you have that, it's very straightforward. It's maybe a six or seven-page document. it was a few years ago that I last had one, but it was a

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: dollars.

You leave the country, you come back. don't quote me on all of this information. It may be, maybe it has changed a little bit since with the new administration, but as far as I'm aware, it's still intact.

Emma: Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, I think it's one of those things, like unless you've done it, unless you've moved to another country and, and tried to figure it out, you don't necessarily kind of know what that entails. And, and also [00:24:00] I always think, I think the same with people, coming here as well. There's so many skills wrapped up in being able to move somewhere else and just figure it out.

a- and I think sometimes that can get a bit lost in translation and, you know, one of my absolute pet peeves from my recruitment days was the whole local experience thing. just because I think you're just missing such a huge chunk of what that person's actually been able to, to accomplish and do and talk about, you know, problem-solving and figuring it out and, kind of a, you know, go-get-them kind of attitude.

But for a lot of people, just the fact that they've kind of made that move, they've, they've demonstrated that. The, the other thing that I thought, listening to, to your story there was, again, something else that I think unless you've lived abroad that you don't necessarily appreciate was the whole when you came for the wedding and then basically got stuck here and your brother's somewhere else and your husband at the time [00:25:00] was back there and and you're just trying to, like, figure out the logistics of, of life and, and people in different countries.

And again, even just that, like I, I think kind of teaches you something about yourself and, again, life and, and kind of just, just figuring it out

Isabel: Yeah, I mean, it was a crazy time for 

many of us, I think especially in Melbourne through all of the lockdowns and

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: early days no one really knew what was going on or how 

serious it was gonna become and yeah, it was, it was a lot to navigate and I'd, I'd actually been working for Manifest, New York on New York hours for about 20

Emma: Oof.

Isabel: a week

Emma: That's tough.

Isabel: it was so much harder than I ever thought it would be, so

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: and that was at the point where I was like, "I'm not going back. I think I need to 

hand in my notice as much as I love this company."

Emma: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think it's, I've, not worked the other hours, but even just, you know, having family, friends, [00:26:00] some clients as, as well, it, it, as you say, it's so much harder than you think it's gonna be. You're like, "Oh, it's okay. Like, it's just a few hours either way. Like, I can make it work." But the whole, like, day is night, night is day, it's, it just is not conducive.

Isabel: No, it's not good for you.

Emma: No. And how, how have you found it, now that you're back? I, I won't kind of talk about the first, couple of years 'cause as we said, they were, they were strange years, but now we're, we're back to a, a kind of a more, more normal Melbourne, as it were. How has that transition been for you? You mentioned the,the pace sometimes is, is noticeably different.

How, how is it? How has it been back?

Isabel: I mean, I love Melbourne. I mean, I'm born and bred here. I grew up in Northcote back when there was more Greek spoken on the street than I think English. so I've seen that change a lot. But yeah, I feel like you kind of get the best of both worlds here in Melbourne. We've got culture, we've got food, we've got great fashion.

the creativity scene, particularly the independent agencies, is so [00:27:00] strong. and so there's a lot going for it. we're a bit isolated, which is both a pro and a con, but

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: yeah, I genuinely just love this city and don't think I'll be heading anywhere anytime soon, to live elsewhere for a while. I do also have a three-year-old son, so that will be keeping me here for a bit.

Emma: Makes, yeah, makes a difference. 

Isabel: The first few years were obviously strange and 

weird, because of the pandemic. And then, yeah, I got pregnant and had a baby, so I was out of the workforce for a little bit. But the last couple of years has been really awesome just, building up the network.

You know, Melbourne is a very fraternal city. People do business

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: business with previously. It often goes back to high school or awards school. yeah, I didn't go to awards school. I never really worked at a big network agency except briefly at Ogilvy, as an intern when I was still in my final year of study. so I have sort of felt like I've been starting that from scratch a bit the last couple of years. But, yeah, it's, it's been awesome getting to know the industry, the other agency owners [00:28:00] here. I got into the Marketing Academy this year, so I'm part of that twenty twenty-six cohort, and that has opened so many doors.

It's such an incredible program. I highly encourage any, any, up-and-coming leaders, that are listening to really consider applying for that program 'cause it's been absolutely brilliant.

Emma: tell me, tell me a bit about it. Tell, tell us more

Isabel: well, what I can share is, yeah, so it's started by Cherilyn Shackell. she's based in the UK yeah, Cherilyn comes from a recruiting background actually as well. She was a headhunter, but, firmly believes that marketing really deserved a proper seat at the C-suite table and that a lot of, CMOs in particular probably weren't particularly prepared for that role and to be able to speak the board.

Emma: So, yeah, she started the Marketing Academy program. It's run across, the US, UK, and Australia. I believe there's also a global fellowship for CMOs. Sure.

Isabel: every year they select, 30 participants in each territory. it's very competitive. I believe in Australia for this year there was just [00:29:00] under 1,000 applicants and, it's a very rigorous interview process, but as part of it you get executive coaching, you get mentoring, you go on boot camps, and you essentially make 29 other fast friends for life, during this year of professional development and personal growth.

So

Emma: Very cool

Isabel: yeah, it's, been really, really amazing and such a huge support for sure

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's such a key point that the,I think you've ... Did you, you phrased it as speaking the language of the board, but, I think that's such a big thing often for, for marketers that i- if you're too much in your sort of creative language or brand language and not that commercial language, that there's often that disconnect between you and the business and, and what you're actually trying to deliver.

And I think it's such an important, such an important point having that commerciality, talking in that way, presenting your work in that way. it makes such a, makes such a huge difference, and it is something [00:30:00] that, not, not all marketers kind of naturally do, but I think it's a real ... Yeah, it's, it's so key

Isabel: Oh, it's completely critical. 

Yeah, if you can't, you know, sell your

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: in numbers and how this is gonna impact the bottom line, yeah, your job's gonna be a lot harder.

Emma: gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough. You, you mentioned there the, the networking side of things and, but interestingly that's how, that's how we met on a, at a, an event on a, on a panel. And,I totally agree with you. It's such a, it's such an important part of how Melbourne business works. Like it, it- it's getting out there and talking to people and having conversations and being known and knowing and knowing others.

And it's obviously something that you were very mindful of and were quite proactive in doing, having been away for, for quite a few years. How, again, like how do you... 'Cause again, it's one of those things that I say all the time, either on the podcast or [00:31:00] LinkedIn or at events to clients of, "You've gotta network.

You've gotta network. You've gotta build relationships." And again, it's easy to say, but what, what does that actually look like? Like, how much time do you invest in that? Like, what, what sort of things do you do? How, how does it look for you?

Isabel: Well, it's a lot of trial and error, if I'm being completely

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: particularly when you're going to something new, you just never know 

whether it's gonna be the kinds of people in the room that you wanna meet or not. and so yeah, like, not everything I've been to has been great, but I've 

definitely been to some pretty awesome ones.

And, you know, I am a single parent to a very small toddler, so I am a little limited by my time in the evenings, but

Emma: Yeah sure

Isabel: great grand- grandparents that help, so I can get out a bit. And, just going to industry events. I find the, the Marketing Club run by, Chanel is really brilliant.

They do, you know, the panel that we met on.

Emma: Yep

Isabel: have monthly social networks and dinners. anything that the Ad Council puts [00:32:00] on, particularly if it's around, Effies, you tend to get more senior people in the room. Those, the Young Bloods, the,the Aunties program, I'm not sure if it's still running, but,

Emma: Don't know that one

Isabel: young creative women coming up in the industry. And then, when BNT put things on or Umbrella, Talon often do, you know, panels with journalists and things like that. And so, Ryan at Creative Natives does a really great job of building community and hosting,

Emma: Yeah, he does

Isabel: four to six times a year, I think. So I've, I've met some really great people at those that have, know, been really fantastic professional connections, but have then also kind of become personal friends as well.

So, yeah, I think it's just being open to invites. You just never know who you're gonna meet, honestly. And don't be afraid to reach out to someone on LinkedIn, ask them for a coffee, pick their brains.

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: worst they're gonna say is no

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: you. And 

then, one thing I started doing on Fridays now, I open up my calendar for an hour for mentoring, where anyone can book, 25 minutes with me [00:33:00] and have a chat about basically whatever they want.

I've kind of put it out to the world what-- a few things I know a little bit about,

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: that I might be of some assistance with, and if not, I can try and point you in the right direction of someone who can. And

Emma: That's very cool

Isabel: awesome to meet, you know, up-and-coming students,

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: owners, strategists. yeah, it's just been,

Emma: It's really cool

Isabel: never know, you never know where it's gonna lead.

Like, I'm not doing

Emma: No.

Isabel: anything back from it, but

Emma: Hmm

Isabel: knows? Things sort of... What goes around comes around, right? So,

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: if you wanna take, you've gotta give too

Emma: Yeah. A- and I think a, a couple of things that, that really stand out there, the just being open because you don't know, and I think it's very easy to, you know, look at a particular event or, you know, read something into a message and, and, and kind of assume that you think you know it, how it's gonna be and, and you don't.

you, you don't know what that connection is, is gonna be. And to your point on, on trial and error, I think what [00:34:00] I see quite often is,as you said, like not everything's gonna be gold. Like sometimes you're gonna turn up and it's just not gonna be, you know, the vibe's gonna be off, or it's just not the right event or whatever.

But I think often people do that and then they stop 'cause then they go, "Oh, that, that's networking. Like that's how it, that's how it's meant to be." And it's, it's not. You, you just unfortunately didn't get the right event. But you, you've gotta kinda keep going and, and as you say, you find those things that, are like-minded people who are, you know, approaching it in a similar way, who are open, who, who want to chat.

And, it, it's that, I guess, quite scary thing of just,just putting yourself out there. But you, you've kind of got to. certainly, certainly in this day and age, I think, and I think it's only becoming more important rather than less

Isabel: Oh yeah, we're all craving human connection, whether

Emma: Absolutely

Isabel: or personally, 'cause we've all just isolated ourselves so [00:35:00] much

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: not going out on Saturday

Emma: I know. Yeah.

Isabel: Oh, there's a whole

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: But, yeah, in person it's just so impactful, makes such a

Emma: Yeah.

Isabel: a, it's the

Emma: It

Isabel: someone opening your email and, like, completely ignoring it and pressing

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's a really important point as well. It's not just networking and, and kind of building relationships. It is actually the in-person part that makes such a difference. I, it was one of my goals this year was to do more in person. I'd massively, ugh, I don't know what was going on, just dropped the ball on the in-person stuff last year, and I really noticed it.

Like, I really noticed that I just wasn't spending enough time with real people in real life. And so going into this year, like, made it a real priority, and it's made such a difference, not just to, to kind of me personally, but to the, the quality of the conversations and, and the quality of the relationships, because it, it does make a difference when you've actually met someone in real life [00:36:00] versus, versus just online.

Obviously, online's great. It's, it's better than nothing, but to have actually kind of sat and, and had that personal connection, it's, it's so important. So yeah, as you said, it's not just the networking, it's the in real life networking.

Isabel: Yeah,

Emma: all gotta get back out there.

Isabel: Gotta get out there. Gotta get out there. Say yes to that envelope opening.

Emma: I absolutely love,I had seen it on LinkedIn actually as well that, the, the Friday, mentoring, hour that you've, you've kind of put aside. Like, what an awesome thing to, to do. and I'd imagine you'd have some really interesting conversations off, off the back of that.

Isabel: Yeah, I mean, look, I would love to claim it as my own idea, but it's not. I actually stole it from Chris Savage after he came and spoke to us, at

Emma: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Isabel: of the Marketing 

Academy. but yeah, I've talked about, navigating visas and moving to the US, the importance of strategy within an agency.

How does that look from brand to creative? one student wanted to pick my brains because she wanted to [00:37:00] become an influencer, and while I'm probably wasn't the best placed person to give the advice, I kind of chatted through, observations that I'd had from working with a number of talent across a broad spectrum and, you know, what you need to do to sort of be able to start getting paid, go from

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: you know, a, a content creator doing user-generated stuff to actually, like, a paid collaborator.

So,

Emma: Mm-hmm.

Isabel: had another one about Shopify with someone in India, so

Emma: Super interesting.

Isabel: mix. Quite a

Emma: Yeah. Great idea. I, I prefer borrow rather than steal. You didn't borrow it from Chris, though, you borrowed it.

Isabel: I

Emma: Borrowed

Isabel: it.

Emma: it and made it your own.

Isabel: Yes, sure. I'll take that.

Emma: final question, Isabel and it's always the final question here, and that is what do you know now that you wish you knew then?

Isabel: So I think it's something that I only learned fairly recently, I would say maybe, six months ago, [00:38:00] and is that vulnerability is not a weakness, that it is 

seriously the biggest strength that you can show. And a very long time, I didn't talk about a lot of things, on both a personal level, I would say mostly.

But, yeah, I always felt like I needed to show up and not show any cracks and pretend everything was fine. And, yeah, I was able to admit my self at one point that, some things weren't going great in my life. And the second I started talking and, opened up to people that, people that I'd known for sort of 25 years, I, I just completely-- my relationships transformed.

My life experiences got so much richer on both a personal and a professional level because we skipped the small talk, and we just got 

straight to the crux of what was going on in our lives. I do that now more so, in a professional setting too, and I just feel like my life has completely transformed because of it.

So,

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: and it's something they really teach as part of, the marketing academy and, you know, what [00:39:00] leadership looks like. And 

leadership is being vulnerable. It is opening up to your team. It is being real with them and admitting when you don't have all the answers, and that perhaps you're not the best at this, that maybe someone else on your team is better than you.

Emma: Yeah

Yeah

Isabel: so yeah, I think, I think if I could rewind a few things, I probably would have lived my life a little more openly, going back a while. But here we are. Yeah.

Emma: Hey, well, you know, you're, you're here now.

Isabel: Yeah

Emma: It's, it's such an interesting one that, isn't it? I think,it's interesting. It's something, I'm a little bit older than you, but it's something I only learnt quite recently as well, and I think it really does... It really changes the quality of your relationships because, as you said, you're having such a more meaningful connection with someone.

and I think by being vulnerable yourself, you're essentially giving the other person permission to do the same as well, that we're not just having this surface level, "Oh, I'm fine. How are [00:40:00] you? Yeah, everything's amazing." Like, you can actually say, "Do you know what? I'm actually really struggling. Like, you know, X, Y, and Z happened," or, "I've got whatever issue, and I, I, I genuinely actually don't know how to solve it," or, or whatever the, the conversation might be.

And, as you said with, with, you know, team members as well, you, you's not having to pretend that you're know everything about everything and that, you know, you, you just kind of glide along on the surface and everything's perfect. and it's the same point, isn't it? It, it gives them permission to say, "Actually, yeah, I'm struggling with this thing, too," and, and come to you in, in the same way.

I think it's a really, really underrated and actually incredibly powerful thing. and as you say, somewhere along the line, I don't know, the, the messaging became that, that vulnerability was weakness, but I would argue very strongly that it is the complete opposite.

Isabel: Completely. And yeah, you know, [00:41:00] it's not about, you know, saying you're not good at something or, I mean, sometimes it is, but yeah, not, not believing in yourself. It's just

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: being able to be open and honest and, yeah, allowing yourself to connect with people more, and as you said, giving them permission to also 

feel like they can let their guard down a little bit and

Emma: Yeah

Isabel: feel more comfortable.

And I just guarantee you, start doing it and work, relationships, family, friendships, it will make such a difference

Emma: Awesome piece of advice and a nice place to, nice place to finish. Thank you so much. It's such a, such a fascinating career journey, and God, you've, you've packed a lot in already. So

Isabel: Yeah,

Emma: I look forward to, to seeing, you know, what, what continues to, what continues to come. But yeah, thank you so much for taking the time and, and sharing so openly about, about what you've learnt and, and the, the ups and downs along the way.

So thank you very much[00:42:00] 

Isabel: Oh, thank you for having me, Emma, and giving me an opportunity to share my story. I really appreciate it.

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