Robyn Ward Says It’s Metal To Talk About Your Mental Health

The Metal Therapist clocks in from the UK! On this "Work On You Wednesday", Robyn Ward explains her mental health journey, what it takes to be a therapist, and why heavy music is just so therapeutic. 

Get more Robyn: https://www.instagram.com/the.metal.therapist/

Robyn's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@The.Metal.Therapist

Get more Val at https://valkleinhans.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

When you just feel the need to let that anger out of people because you've been wronged, like, what a great way to let it out. So I just feel like a different, a different way. We shouldn't be living line with you.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

We shouldn't be living line vigorously.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Welcome to another edition of Vigorously with me, Val Klein Hands. We are gonna get some tips for the soul today. I feel it, because the metal therapist Robin Ward is checking in all the way from the UK today. Thank you so much for joining me, Robin. I'm thrilled you're here.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Thank you so much for having me. Honestly, it's such an honor to be asked to do things like this. So yeah, I'm really nervous, but I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

We're gonna have a lot of fun, I promise. But just to give anybody that doesn't know you a little bit of background, walk me through your own mental health journey and how you got to where you are now.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Oh, okay. It's so unusual to be asked this question because normally I'm the one asking people that question.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

So um, yeah. Um so basically, I I'm a therapist, qualified therapist. Um, and I do that because um of a few different things that have happened in my life, really. But um I guess it it's it's an unusual one because I guess the main thing for me has been like navigating my own ADHD. I don't know whether you're aware of that, but I am diagnosed ADHD and I only got diagnosed later in life. So um, so I think that's really been the main thing for me because there's a big crossover between like ADHD and social anxiety. Yeah, sometimes I've always yeah, big time. So I've always been quite socially anxious, like generally, which is a very complicated topic, really. Because most people when they meet me, they go, Really? Social anxiety because I come across really confident, but actually, what's going on internally is a completely different story. So yeah, so I think that's really been the main thing that I've had to navigate. Um, I wouldn't say that I've kind of like had my own major mental health journey, it's just like been little things that I've had to navigate over time, like feeling like an outsider, lots of losses in my life. Yeah, um, I lost one of my best friends, um, my childhood best friends to suicide back in 2011, I think it was. So in my early 20s, which was quite a significant thing that happened in my life, really, and was a big, I guess, turning point for me. And it was it was one of those things where it made me want to work in this kind of line of work, really. So that was a big transitional moment for me. Um, and then even just recently, I've lost another friend to suicide. It's been quite a few people in my life who have lost to that. Um also navigating my sit losing my sister's husband in 2017 to cancer, which was really, really difficult. So, I guess you could say, like, I I know what it's like to navigate those times where things just shake you to your absolute core and everyone around you, you know. Um, so there's been a few things in my life, I guess, that have led me to where I am now and why I get so passionate about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, all of those things lead you to helping others and actually going forth and getting your license as a therapist. For the Americans, break down what it's like getting a license in the UK. What how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, so it it it is quite different, really, because as far as I'm aware, in the US, I think therapist is a protected term.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

It's you yeah, it's it's pretty uh sometimes people say it's used loosely, and I think but there are still there are still criteria that you had definitely have to meet to even have the title at all. And so so there's debate on the credibility behind it sometimes, I would say, but there's certainly criteria to actually get the title at all, which is why it always baffles me. But at the very least, there's certifications involved, there's schooling involved, you have to get a degree at university, all that above. You know, that's still all very much part of it. But I mean, we've got a long way to go, I think, when it comes to the mental health discussion just in general. So that could be part of what's going on too. But I'm sure that some of that you have in common in the UK as well. I'm sure there's schooling involved, I'm sure there are certain criteria that you've had to meet. What did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:46

So for me, my personal journey into becoming a therapist was um I actually did what's called a recruit to train position in the UK, which is like it's basically like an apprenticeship where you learn on the job. So I um originally I worked in um like social care, family support, systems, and um in children's centres in the UK, which were kind of like a thing that is of the past now in this country, they don't really have them as much anymore. Um, but at the time there was a lot of children's centres which were like almost like community hubs where families could come to for support. Um, and that was like support across lots of different areas, really. It was support for um like antenatal classes, for example, or parenting classes, or uh it could be financial support, loads of different things, access to healthcare. There was lots of things that the children's centres would support with. So that was my background, and then after working there, I I realized that mental health was like a common thread between all of these families that were in need, if you like, and also my own personal experiences like ADHD, losses, losing people to suicide, all that kind of stuff. I then saw a position which was what's called a well-being practitioner in this country, um, which is kind of like a low-intensity therapist, so they work with people who have like early onset, mild to moderate, kind of emerging difficulties with anxiety and depression. And um it was a children's version of that role. So I applied for that job, that's how I trained, and then I became a supervisor in that role, then I went on to do just this last year. I've done what's called a high-intensity course, which is through like psychological trainings, therapy centres and stuff. But in terms of like being a therapist in the UK, it is an important distinction to make, really, because I think there's a lot of confusion out there about the different roles, and it is like such a big topic, but I think just to summarise it in the most succinct way that I can. Um, the psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists, when it comes to therapists, that is not a protected term. So people literally go on a two-week counselling course, set up privately as a therapist, and and call themselves a therapist, basically. Um which is you know, um, if that's their journey, that's their journey. But I would always encourage people to ask if they go privately for therapists and not via the NHS, um, ask about qualifications like how do they become a therapist and their personal journey. There are therapists who are accredited, which is almost I think probably our work or registered, which is our version of being licensed with different companies like BABCP, BACP, UK, whatever it is. There's loads of different kinds of um governing bodies which accredit therapists, and lots of training courses are uh legitimized or validated by those companies. So if your therapist is trained via one of those routes, then they are they have this governing body that kind of oversees them, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

It makes total sense, and I and I think that's why there might be a little bit of discourse, at least here, when it comes to therapies. I I think there is some of what you're talking about happening too in that. Um I wouldn't call it a hierarchy, but I would call it the way you described it is different levels of how intense you caseload can uh how intense of a caseload you can take on. I I do think that there are different levels to that for anybody that calls themselves a therapist in the in this country anyway, too. I think there is some more of that going on, and I think that is why there's a little bit of conversation around that and a little bit of uncertainty around that about what it really means. So that makes complete and total sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

It's a massive topic as well, because I think, like I said before, the psychiatrist, the psychologist, the therapist, and it's so tricky for people to navigate.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

I do talk about this stuff quite a lot on my platforms because I think it's important people know the distinction.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Very important. Here we understand the distinction, like between a psychiatrist and a therapist. One can prescribe medication, one cannot. That is the line. That's the hard line.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah, that's exactly the same here. So a psychiatrist can diagnose. I think that's a difference as well. Here is that therapists don't really diagnose insurance thing. If I'm a if I like know correctly in the US, could be.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Well, health insurance is a whole animal itself. Like it honestly it's honestly, it's a it's a giant mess. It's a giant mess for any, for every American. It really is. But um, but yes, to to your point, I don't know that a therapist can fully diagnose. I'm not a hundred percent sure. I think they can maybe take notes, and those notes can be considered by a psychiatrist. Not a hundred percent clear on how it works, but I'm pretty sure that's sounding familiar to me.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah, in the U in the UK, psychiatrists diagnose and prescribe medication, um, whereas therapists don't.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Okay, so that's I mean, it's it's there's a lot of similarities there from what I'm hearing. So, what is it that makes you take the plunge and say, I'm gonna go public with my thoughts and my tips?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Well, actually, funnily enough, I've always created content. This is amazing. Um, I used to do like makeup as like a side hustle. I used to be really invested in makeup and like theatrical makeup. So I used to create content in that. Um so I've always been a little bit kind of out there on social media and stuff, but then it was actually COVID. When COVID hit and everyone was in like isolated in the homes, and you know, that sort of community uh vibe wasn't there anymore, especially with gigs and stuff like that. Absolutely like like horrific time that was, and it was really that time where you know the whole TikTok era, everyone was sending videos and being really cringe on the internet. Um I got involved with all of that, and actually I set up an account on TikTok which was just therapy related, and again, another like neurodivergent thing. I felt like I'd developed this whole platform. I ended up getting to like 300k followers on that account um pretty quickly, but it was it was just tailored to therapy and like that part of my identity, and I didn't really share much else about music and all that kind of stuff. So that came a bit later when I realized that actually it wasn't fulfilling me to just focus on that one lane, um, and so I transitioned, but I just thought it was really important, and I saw how many people were finding it helpful um and the community, you know, that that that we'd built together, it was really powerful.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Right. There's something about combining all of those aspects that make you, Robin, and me, Val, like there, there's something that that means authenticity with it. You know what I mean? Like it just gives it gives that vibe. It gives the vibe of being authentic when you include more versions of yourself because other people understand that to be very human. I went through a similar thing, you know. I mean, I had a background in radio before. COVID was the one what kicked the podcasting off, and leaving, you know, leaving the industry for my own mental health and going the podcasting route because I had a little more creative control. That helped me. And at the same time, I was posting outfits and having a great time with the outfits, but that part of it just wasn't enough. I was like, no, I also want to be talking about my other interests, which are music, which are media, pop culture, all the above, and and and mental health too, you know, given my own experiences, it was something that I felt like I could speak to. There is something too presenting multiple versions of yourself. I it I don't think it hurts at all when it comes to social media. So, is your favorite thing about the community that you've built on social media the fact that your followers clearly embrace all of it?

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yeah, and I think what's really special about the community that I feel like we've built together on my pages and platforms and stuff is I learned so much from people. Um, and people question things and they they don't sort of like accept the norm, which is great. Yeah, I feel like I've learned so much from them as well, but also about music. I've found so many bands through people where they've been like, you should check this band out because they talk about mental health, or you know, like Citizen Soldier. I wouldn't have discovered citizen soldier if it weren't for people on the internet being like, you need to listen to this band of advice and fireplace, like get on this.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

So, yeah, that's amazing. I and I think that's be that's definitely a characteristic of the metal community too. Skeptics to the core, we'll always be skeptics to the core, and I appreciate that. I appreciate that because we love that level of transparency, and I don't know that anybody knows that that's how it is before they get involved in the metal community, but you find out because someone will check you very quickly, very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

I love that, I do, I love it because I am also one of those people who you know, if I if I trip up or if I say something wrong or if I invalidate someone inadvertently, you know, like tell me because I don't, I don't like I want to learn. I want to I wanna be helpful in the best way that I can. Um and yeah, that would be my worst nightmare. Like invalidating one, you know, like unknowingly, and then like please just tell me.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah, well no, well nobody wants to nobody wants to be an outright dick immediately. I I I have I've learned that. I mean, there's some some people maybe don't think of don't think twice. I tend to think that that's oblivion, not necessarily intention. They're just truly not aware, particularly the first time. Now, second and third, this is when we're gonna have a conversation, but the first time, okay, I'll I'll let it slide. So I I totally understand that. So I I heard Citizen Soldier, give me the lore behind your entry into metal, too.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Okay, so I feel like my so I'm I'm 37. I had to think about that. I'm 36. I just said 37. So I grew up in that sort of like new metal era.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

So that was kind of like my gateway, if you like. I think it started with things like Avril Levine, who was like around at the time, and then it was like Blink, you know, like hot hunk, Sun 41, things like that. Um, and then it sort of progressed onto the likes of Evanescence, Lincoln Park, uh Limbiscit, and then System of a Down, Bullet from a Valentine, and it just progressively got like, you know, like a little bit heavier or a little bit more experimental over time. But yeah, um yeah, it was like new metal was my was the gateway.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

See, I was wondering, I'm so glad that I got to hear a perspective from someone from the UK on that because here new metal for us, it was in our backyard. So I I kind of always wanted to hear how that took off in the rest of the world, too, because I'm like, these guys, like, oh man, so some of these are like the complete stereotype. And I'm like, I don't know how that would be received outside of the States. So it's hilarious to hear your perspective, and and it's cool to hear that you were they're universally embraced. We loved having speaking as a woman too, I think we loved having Avril as an option to Britney and Christina. We we will absolutely put, we will put respect on Britney and Christina's name. Don't get me wrong, but it was nice. We will, yeah. And but it's it was nice having an Avril and a pink available, just because for you and I who grew up to be alternative baddies, we're looking at those girls too and saying, oh, they've also got the aesthetic. So now I also don't have to be so panicked about the way I look. Where before they were around, Britt and Christina are the template. Now we have a little bit more of a license to say, oh, we can show that side of ourselves a little bit, and that is so freeing. I so appreciated that.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

I love that, and and I think as well, and when you talk about the difference between the US and the UK, I think I did also have like a bit of an emo phase as well. I used to say I identified as emo at the time for like about a year. Like I did listen to loads of different things at that time, but I think there are some differences between what bands were quite big in the emo scene in America versus here. Like there's bands like um Funeral for a Friend, which people know a lot less, I think, in the in the US than they do here, because they were a British, I think they were were they Welsh or British? I can't remember, but they were definitely a UK band. And then um there was a couple of other bands that were quite big around that time as well. But um I'm trying to think now what they were, but there was a few bands like that that I think weren't as big in the US. But yeah, so there was there was a few bands like that as well that were my gateway too.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

But Bullet is definitely the one that transferred here. Like they they when they when they hit here, accepted, accepted almost immediately, and to this day, they to this day they can still pull an audience here, no question.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Which is interesting, because actually they're like they were classed as one of those emo bands, but really there's not really anything emo about them with the title of the band, like the banning.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Could be I maybe and and maybe some of the lyrics, but I hear you, there's they're heavy. I I would call bullet heavy if if I if anybody was asking me, that's how I would call it. So have you ever when you're in a session with a client or you're offering somebody advice, have you ever given them like maybe a recommendation on music to listen to to help them get through what I what it is that they're going through?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

I think if I was so I actually a bit of lore on me, I actually work in the NHS. I don't talk about that a lot because I kind of like to distance myself from that because you know I represent me on my social media and not the NHS, but um I don't necessarily get clients through my social media. So I think if I was working with people who were if I was private and I was working with people who are coming to me through my social media, maybe there would be a bit more discussion about music in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

I see.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I think my job, but I don't see my job as making recommendations anyway. I see my job more as somebody to hold space for somebody to explore their own recommendations, if that makes sense. So, what what I do see is um when we do things like safety plans for people, which is something that is basically kind of risk management. So in your worst moments, this is the plan that you can turn to. Um, and more often than not, people will put music on that, and it's whatever music they're into and stuff like that. But if they come to me and they're like, music is a big help for me, and I love metal or rock or alternative music or whatever it might be, I might explore that with them a little bit more and be like, okay, so how can we honor that? Like, how can we lean into that? What how can you explore that even more and draw it out rather than just listen to music? What about community and gigs and all that kind of stuff? So it might be that they come to me with with that idea already, and then we explore it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Got it. If they versus if they were seeking you out privately, they're seeking you out because they know you, they already know that this is part of Robin. They they already get it. Okay, so I so okay, I understand. Yeah, I definitely understand the difference in that. And you're not the first therapist that's kind of described what they do to me as merely holding not merely, but just holding space for somebody. And I know some uh other people on the receiving end will go, my therapist never talks to me. I don't get it. I'm here for help, I don't get any help. Well, that's also part of what's happening. Part of what's happening is maybe they're sensing a need that you need a root room to vent or get out whatever it is that you. Need to get out, and that's why we're sitting in silence some of the time as a therapist.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

That's it, and uh well, a lot of therapy as well is kind of the way that you ask your questions. So I will ask people questions, not as like a I already know the answer to this question, and I'm asking it you it for the sake of you coming up with the answer yourself. Like that's not the point of it. But the point is, I don't know the answer to this question, but I feel like it might be a helpful question for you to explore. It might be a difficult question, but we'll sit with that difficulty in the question and we'll try and because I believe that people hold their own answers, it's just they've they're not kind of they don't they've not had that um that opportunity to explore um in a helpful way, so that's kind of how I see it really.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Makes total sense. Why do you think that metal resonates with anybody that feels like an outcast or they're experiencing anxiety, depression, trauma? Metal is huge in our life, and I get that it kind of attracts anybody who's had similar circumstances. Do you have any theories on why that might be?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, I feel like by its very nature, metal and alternative music is against the norm, isn't it? So if you've been, you know, if you're an outsider or an outcast, or you know, you feel othered in any sense, then this type of music is something that is like that's also the outcast. So it's like in alignment, if that makes sense. But yeah, and I think it's just the way, if we take it at surface level, the way it sounds is very intense, it's very complex, it's very layered, it's very in your face. So it's almost like it's like an outlet, isn't it? It's it's a way to process those like more like deeper, like visceral feelings that we have.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

It is 1000%. And I and I know that that's why sometimes it gets the label as angry or aggressive. And yeah, sometimes it is. There are moments where I'm at a show and I see dudes working things out in the pit. And ladies, let me let me include there. People are working things out in the pit. I mean, do you as a therapist, do you ever do you ever sit back and watch that at a show and go, oh yeah, they're working something out? Like they're they're we're gonna leave this alone because they're taking care of themselves right now.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I've just stood there like analyzing people now. Oh, kind of, I guess so. Like, I think it's just one of those things, isn't it? Like a gig, going to a gig is one of the most euphoric experiences that you can have or a festival, just being in a crowd of people where everyone is there for the same reason, everybody loves whoever whatever is happening on the stage. Like, it's just a collective euphoria and the sense of belonging and community that you get from that. And I'm not saying community is the best, like, there's definitely a sense of elitism within the community.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Oh, we could that's a whole other episode in itself, literally.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

I also think with elitism, I think it does come into this sense of like this is a community of outsiders who know what it's like to be othered, and a lot of people who are neurodivergent or with trauma or who have been ostracized by you know, society, uh oppressed, whatever. And I think because of that, I think that's why we get elitism personally, because people are very protective of that. It's not for the mainstream, and it's people kind of want to hold on to that, you know, uh small. Um I don't really know how to put it, but I just feel like people are very protective of that community.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes gatekeeping is involved. I think that that's improving. I will say, I think I've seen less of that now as a 36-year-old versus when I was 16 and still going to shows then. So thankfully, I think that that uh just my opinion, I think that that is changing and it is improving. It's not totally gone. There always is that asshole in the audience. I mean, it it believe believe me, I'm a woman. I have been on the receiving end of name three songs multiple times in my life, multiple times. But but those guys, uh you know, they're they're maybe two out of the ten in the room. It's it's certainly not the majority. So thankfully, I do think that is changing. It's it's an interesting dichotomy. Do you think that perhaps I mean, I know that sometimes the turnoff with the community is not only is this just a group of outcasts and the rest of the mainstream world would go, I don't want to be involved in that. But sometimes I wonder if society pathologizes anger a a little bit too, instead of teaching people how to process it, because I know that that that is something that is attractive about the metal community, is that it does give you permission to explore the angry parts of you.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah, actually, that's what I was just thinking when you were talking, because I think there is just going back to what we were saying before about the community and like what people get out of it. I feel like there is a level of rawness and like realness to the themes explored within metal that I think um it allows people to process things in a healthy way. Um it doesn't sugarcoat things, you know, like it doesn't disguise things in like sunshine and rainbows and love stories, like the movie sometimes does. So I think it can be a really healthy way to move through and um you know gain catharsis through the music. I think, in terms of like pathologizing anger, a hundred percent agree with that because I think in the metal community, like you said, it gives us permission to let that out, especially in a pit, you know, and it's a great way to like learn boundaries and stuff with people, and it's about like collective, it's that outlet for people, it lets people get that aggression out, but then two seconds later, in a in a quieter moment of the song, you're seeing people throw arms around each other and singing it's great, and it what a way to learn about like if someone falls, you pick them up, like it's consent-based, you know, you don't just pull any random person in from the side, it's it's a great way to process and learn how to cope with those trickier feelings. And I think I always say this to people anger is not the enemy, anger is not this thing to be feared. Anger can teach us a lot about what matters to us, what feels unjust to us. And if we really listen to and get curious about our anger, it can teach us a lot, we can learn a lot from it because it's like, well, the reason why I'm angry is because this thing that happened annoyed me because it feels unjust, or it feels unfair, or it feels you know, it's triggered something within me that is from the past, you know, or there's some reason why you feel angry. And if we pathologize anger and we see it as this like thing to be feared, it just makes it more intense, and it becomes this catch 22 situation where then people react to their anger because they're suppressing it, and it just confirms to the people the the masses anger is too feared, so it's a cycle.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

I wish we looked at it as more of a time and a place thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I that that that's definitely how I I wish that we looked at it instead. I was fortunate to, you know, join the community and learn at an early age that yeah, this is this is one area where when I'm not having a great day, I can go to and I can do whatever it is that I need to do to get out whatever it is that I need to get out in a safe way where I'm not harming myself or anybody else. If you could prescribe a metal playlist for stress or anger, what do you think would be on it?

SPEAKER_00 30:24

This is such a hard question.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I know, there's so many choices.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Oh god, well, I think generally, and this again, this is so against the grain for me because normally I'm like, what's helpful for you? What do you um for me prog? Oh yeah, yeah. Because I feel like with progressive metal, you've got I love a build-up in a song because I think it makes the payoff even better at the end, you know, and it's like a big build-up and then it's like a big outlet or release at the end. Um, and I think with prog, so I'm when I say prog, I'm thinking things like um textures, opus, dream theatre.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Um my favourite band, my all-time favorite band, Lepras. Just love them.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

I think it explores lots of different moods, you know, it goes softer, really emotive, and then there's like big crescendos, and you know, complex, and it's just great, and I just think it's great for outlook. But then I also think things like um electric callboy, yeah, yeah, just to have a laugh, just for a laugh. Exactly. Yeah, being over. There is a song by Bean Over, which I'm really just loving at the minute called Wheel of Fortune, and it's really about being down on look but persevering anyway. The lyrics are something like um like I've got the will to make it work. Yeah, I'm just like I love that for being just uplifting. Yeah, I feel like a mixture is great. Things like um chimera, pure hatred, so when you just feel the need to let that anger out of people because you've been wronged, like, what a great way to let it out. So I just feel like a different, like different moods.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Just the ex what you're getting at is the license to be human, whatever mood it is, whatever mood it is that's yeah that's happening at the time. Just just permission to express it and get it all out. There is something to Prague doing that. I I'm a I completely agree. I just saw Opeth like last month, and I felt I I felt the same way. And what I pre- and this is so funny, specifically with them. I never understood why they got all the crap for Heritage when all of the clues were there before in the albums before, and on top of that, I it to me, it's something that's smart to on their part to do to go in a direction that I'm assuming is more authentic for them.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

This is the thing about Prague as well, is that it there's no rules to it, there's no rules, just do whatever feels right, and that's why you can get one band doing two albums that don't even sound like the same band because it's just experimental, and that's what I love about it.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah, if you had to offer just your your top number one quick tip on how to work on yourself mentally and how to improve your state mentally, what would you offer?

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Uh probably just one word curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Mmm, because it all stems from there.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, when you get curious about stuff, it's it is it's it's a very cliche thing for me to say as a therapist, but I just feel like any intense moment, any anger, any uh tricky situation to navigate, curiosity can really help you unpick and understand more about why you respond in the way you respond. And if you keep falling into the same cycles of something, you know, uh dealing with something in what feels like an unhelpful way to you, curiosity is is the is the key because as soon as you get curious, rather than pushing things away constantly, um even things like anxiety, people push against anxiety all the way, so much so that like they end up avoiding. Um, and I just feel that if you get curious about it rather than push it away and you lean into it a little bit, you can understand more about it and you can understand more about yourself, and it helps you make a bit more peace with things sometimes. So curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Do you think that we're becoming more comfortable with having general conversations about mental health and and how we take care of ourselves in that realm?

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, I think so. I think I think definitely in the metal space and the alternative space has been a shift because I think back in, you know, when you think about the 70s and the 80s and like the real beginnings of um, you know, glam rock, for example, all that kind of scene, it was all about sex, drugs, and rock and roll and suppressing things, right? Um, and there's been this bravado in metal music for a long time where it's like uh you know, dealing with things in maybe not the best way, but I feel like I've definitely seen a shift nowadays where people are leaning into uh trickier emotions, being a lot more raw, being a lot more open. Um, and you've got some real big names in the space openly talking about um yeah mental health, like Rob Flynn, machine, you know, um Corey Taylor, people just being so open about their own mind, which I think is a great example. Yeah, I definitely see a shit.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

We're for we are fortunate to have a lot of good examples in the community. I would absolutely agree with that. And hopeful, I I mean, I hope that that's something that attracts even more people to it and that it's something that continues to blow up because I don't mind the more the more the merrier, the more the merrier. Especially, I mean, we're doing the most in my country right now, the absolute most. And I think a lot of I think a lot of us are looking for something to get us through what a lot of us feel is is a hard time, particularly politically. And it's I I hope that that translates to the community growing. And I think it will.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

That's another thing I love about the community though, because it doesn't shy away from politics. You know, right, it never did. It's always been there. So it is if you're alternative, then that is a part of of who you are. So I love the fact that it stands against things like genocide and um systemic oppression, and it's very loud and vocal about these things. And um yeah, there's a lot of shit going on in the world right now, and I think too much when yeah, and when things feel out of control like that, that's why community is so helpful, connection, outlets.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Yeah. So what is next for you, whether it's the social media community, therapy, all the above? In general, what's next for you? What are you looking forward to?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

I am really loving talking to uh musicians and bands at the minute about I've been to I've been so lucky this last couple of years, I've been able to go to some festivals as press to be able to talk to bands about about these topics. And I just think there's something so special about directly, you know, having having that role, you know, being like, let's talk about this, let's get the conversation going. So I'd love to do more of that. I'd also love to do more of my reactions. I've kind of been I put that to one side with my course this last year. So I'd love to get into doing reactions to music a bit more and unpicking the themes of you know, lyrics and how the feel of the music and stuff like that because it's it really resonates with people. I'd love to do more of that, and then just continuing on my kind of professional journey as a therapist and seeing where that takes me. I love supervising, I'll I'd love to do some tutoring, maybe in future on courses, a low intensity because I've been doing low intensity therapy now for gosh, like eight, seven or eight years.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

So yeah, I can't wait to see it all. I can't wait. I I know it's gonna be good. I love seeing your enthusiasm for it, and just uh personally, I I always love uh seeing it. So, Robin, thank you so much. It's been a lovely chat. Thank you for spending some time with me.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Thank you so much, pal. I've had the best time. It's been so lovely to talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

For more on Robin, give her a follow anywhere and everywhere on social media at the metal therapist. I will give you the links in the show notes, captions, etc., etc., etc. The dot metal dot therapist. You can find Robin on social media, I promise. Thanks so much for joining me this episode. I hope that you learned that emotions are normal and it's okay to vent them. And we can do this in healthy ways. That's what I took away from this episode. If you loved it too, let me know in the comments. We'll see you again next time. Bye.