Self Deception Created The Soundtrack For Your Dystopian Rebellion

Andreas and Hagge from Self Deception chat with Val about their upcoming album ONE OF US (out May 15th), and dive into the connections it has to realizing dystopian nightmares. 

Is the internet (and the way we use it) going to collapse on itself? What exactly happened to the bride and groom in "The Wedding"? What have Andreas and Hagge learned throughout their decades in the music industry? When are we going to the see them in the US?

The crew do their best to answer all of those questions, but in some cases, only the future knows the real answer. 

Get more Self Deception: https://selfdeception.se/

Follow Self Deception: https://www.instagram.com/selfdeception_official/

Get more Val at https://valkleinhans.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We know uh kind of beforehand what w what parts people will sing, but uh there's always parts that the actual crowd teaches us that this should be a place where we leave it for them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

So uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

What was the last thing that the crowd did that surprised you?

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Good one.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

We're gonna go get the findings we shouldn't be living lively.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

We should be living living vigorously.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to another edition of Vigorously with me, Val Klein Hands, getting excited for a new album on the way this episode. Self-deception is here. We're thrilled to have two of the members anyway. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

It's a pleasure to be on.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Andrea, specifically when it comes to you, I loved finding out that you are a self-proclaimed dystopian nerd. And oh yeah, I want to talk a little bit to dystopia too. I'm into Dune. I'm excited for the next Dune movie. I don't know if you're a Dune guy.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Yeah, so yeah, so am I. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Okay. So in addition to Dune, what are some of your other favorites?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Uh I have to say, uh uh uh three body problem is is probably my my uh uh my most recent one. There's a lot of sci-fi in it, and uh of course uh um Black Mirror is just the best, but also like uh uh different kind of genres uh that aren't uh like science fiction per se. Uh but uh I I'd say if if I would rate like my most recent favorite things would be Black Mirror or or um or Three Body Problem. I actually read the book after seeing the uh uh seeing the series uh Three Body Problem and got uh complete different uh view uh of it, even though it was the same. So I'm excited that it's gonna be another season. It's just the best. Uh I'm I I have a I have a uh a brain that that uh gets easily uh thinks about uh catastrophes, you know. I'm very, really I've always been this my whole life, like worrisome about uh like the worst possible scenario is gonna happen, but dystopia it kind of like calms me down, so it's become like uh an addiction.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

It's hard not to pay attention to it, and it's really creepy when you see some of it reflected in real life. Bits and pieces, bits and pieces, like I sometimes I have to turn off black bear because I'm like this is getting a little bit too real. The last one of the last episodes from the last season was about paying like for medical care with a subscription service, and I'm like, oh my god, I can't. We're we're a little too close to that already.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, but the thing is, I'm I'm kind of like uh a uh um hobby. I I like a lot, I like uh uh uh astronomy and the math on a hobby on a hobby level. This is something uh I'm not like our guitarist, he's an engineer, so he's very good at math. I'm like more hobby and the philosophical side of it. Uh but uh I love when they put these uh like great sci-fi twists to it, like with technology. There was one in the one one uh one episode in the earlier seasons where uh this woman uh there you can make copies, smaller copies of of people, and uh it's like she's the real person and she gets to stay in a box for like he just pushes a button and says, Okay, you're gonna stay in here like for a year, or so you learn your lesson, and she had to stay in there for a year. You know, it's just oh it just uh get yeah, it just uh gets my it gets me going.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So for both of you, really, is it fair to say that this album looks at what happens when we wake up from a dystopian nightmare and realize that we have been wronged, or there are things that are just whoo too much.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I would like to say that one song in particular is is a uh is influenced uh by this exact uh obsession of mine. Uh and actually it was Patrick uh or Haget that you call him is with us today that really that really that that really pushed uh this song through. We were on a two-week um uh writers camp uh in Spain, and uh during that time um uh our families came down and actually our drummer Eric got married. And uh during this time uh uh Hage was obsessed about this one demo that we had. This well, you could describe it yourself, Patrick.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Well, it's one of the best guitar riffs that our guitarist Bronny ever wrote, I think. And I was just the final day of we've been there for two weeks, and it was the last day, and I was like, we need to get this this riff on this album, and we just need to put this song together. And then Andreas picked it up and wrote this amazing lyrics. Please take it away.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, no, I liked it because it and we also like uh we put two of the ideas uh that I think it was uh that that Patrick was really into, uh, which is the riff and the uh the the the verse, and so we wrote uh we wrote um we wrote on it and like on the night that uh our uh uh drummer got married, uh I sat down and I was like, what if we write a song about a wedding, but uh the the the couple secretly wants to uh kill each other?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I heard about this and I was like, what in the Mr. and Mrs. Smith? I was like, I need to pay attention, and the video is fantastic. But you but yes, please tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah, no, so I mean, and as soon as I could, I I I love uh the kind of storytelling way to write. Not all of our songs are like that, but when I get I get an idea, like if in some other universe I would probably uh be a writer, maybe novels, I don't know, like just these small ideas that I can and come up with. But that was such a perfect uh we felt it that night, everybody, because of course Eric just got married, so uh we just started spinning on it. And uh after that, I mean I obsess about our lyrics, uh about our our the meaning of the songs, even though if even if we get it like 85% to the finish, I still got weeks after that to get the last 15, you know? Uh and like picture a scenario uh that I myself can relate to. So uh it's a good story for a song, it is.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

We're invested, we're so invested because I was I I'm like I'm watching this video and I'm waiting to find out wait, which one dies first? Like, I I I'm like, I I need to see where this goes. I need a little background. Like, are are they spies? Are they not spies? Are they just like it? But then it kind of seemed to take like a zombie turn. There's a lot going on in this video. I'm not gonna spoil too much, but after watching it, I did want to ask if like the blood landing on like the bride's figurine first is kind of a clue as to how the rest of it goes.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Let's just say uh my vision of writing a song is not always completely uh uh what do you say coherent or the same as the the guy that produces the the actual video? We get we got really close, we got really close to in this one. Um I mean me I mean the idea is to kind of leave leave an open field. I the hardest part wasn't like getting coming to a conclusion uh uh on what happens. It was more like how do I how can I write this from uh uh um a woman's uh perspective, the bride's perspective. How can I write this? Uh because I have a I I also I like I like the whole idea of of weddings. It's like uh I worked as a cover musician for so many years, I've done hundreds of weddings, you know, and I just like the whole thing. And so, but it was hard to like put myself into uh the bride's shoes and like kind of how do I uh make it uh in a way that is um through her eyes, and then also make it like uh in a way that's uh for for for the guy to to be a way that maybe a a bride would look at her um uh at the groom. Uh so it was really hard for like that that kind of part of it. But I mean the story and how it begins and how it ends, uh I will not disclose.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

We need to watch, we need to pay attention, we need to listen. All the clues are out there already, just pay attention. Yeah, got it. Okay, so Patrick, he's making it sound like this wasn't a hard sell, the concept, anyway, to the rest of the group.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

No, not really, and it almost never is. Andreas is amazing with his writing his lyrics and his the themes, and then he puts up for this. And uh, so it's it's never a hard sell. He just needs to describe them well as he most of the time does. Sometimes he gets he gets stuck in a loop and can't get out, and that's when he calls me and I help him to get on the track again.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Patrick has actually Patrick has a talent for for uh he's the the biggest music consumer I know. I can't listen, I don't listen to music privately because it's all I think about. Uh but uh he has I zoom in to this kind of thing, and he has the best, he has a talent when it comes to zooming out and just seeing the bigger picture. Uh and uh that really he gets he gets uh me out of hard situations, like okay, look at it this way, you know. He understands the insanity somehow.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

We need that voice, we do need that voice sometimes, a lot of the time, especially the more I think the more creative you are, the further in your head you can get, and you do need that outside person or just another another party saying yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

If if we if I talk to our produce, yeah, if I talk to our producer, uh it's always like he has an he's like he's pushing for something. Uh uh Hag or Haggy has a uh like a way of just like uh tying up the knots, you know. It's a big talent knife. There's if it's if there's anybody that writes songs that are stuck, you should write to Patrick.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Fluent in Andreas. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So we got a little clip of an unplugged version of the wedding, and that was a treat. Any plans on like making that a thing, like a real release? Because that sounded great.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

Maybe we should actually. Yeah, maybe we should. We've done a couple of versions of like not all the songs, but at least the single. So maybe we should look into do a couple of acoustic versions.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Is there a time and place for acoustics?

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Well, let's just say uh that that um we we uh there's a lot of time uh invested into to writing music uh and going on tour and all these kind of things. And and you know, we always have to make the choice of of what do we think or what do we need to work on. There's there's always uh good to have and there's always nice to have. And all most often the the the acoustic songs uh go into the category of nice to have. And they're very cool and they're very nice, but I mean we need material for our next album. We can't sit with two short deadlines, so we just that's always what we work on. But like on our previous album, we had a a um acoustic song or more like a symph, like a symphony, a real uh big symphony that played to to a version that was uh of a song called Beautiful Disaster that we chose to do because we wanted to when we believed in it. And it was like a it was kind of on a bucket list just looking at this big orchestra playing all our stuff.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Uh so I mean we we would like to do it more, but the thing is always we were always working on new material. Uh and uh just so you know, like uh like on this album, that's the the new album One of Us, the 11 songs that are on it are the only 11 songs that we agreed on.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Everybody, yeah. So there's a couple everybody had to sacrifice something. So I mean, if if if this album goes really well for us, and and and we can't start recording a new one for a while because we gotta this there's a hype around it. I mean, there's there's always the option to write uh to to do some acoustics, and that would all most often be like a situation where we write, if there's one hit song, we'll we'll do the uh acoustic version of that, and maybe uh during the same time do another one. So but the wedding for sure would be a candidate. It's uh easily a top three song for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, you're touching on the intention behind how we're choosing what song goes into what spot on the album. I could hear that already, even with the the the little bit that we have uh put out so far. One of us title track, obviously the battle cry that kicks the rebellion off, or at least I'm getting rebellion vibes so far. So, was that that had to be an intentional choice as well, starting with that title track?

SPEAKER_02 12:45

I gotta be honest here.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Uh we actually not really we haven't released that video yet, I think. Because we actually recorded when we set the track order for the album, and it's all unintentional, it's all random picks on a table.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Okay, we won't tell anybody, we'll just make it.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

It just turned out to be fantastic, but it's it's it's not not intentional at all.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

I totally did. I told when I compared it to the rest of what I heard, I thought, okay, this is setting off a rebellion. Like, this is the messaging we're going with here.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

There, no, there was no uh plan, such we were uh uh actually we used to think a lot about this, and uh the thing is that we were so divided on what kind of songs we like. Everybody have had different kinds of energy, like uh time or or or feelings invested to different songs. So we completely disagreed uh on on everything, this album, like when it comes to where we should place it, which ones should be our singles, and uh so it was good actually being like that we're now assigned to to Napalm that we could like okay, you get to be the the the people that can have the last say, you know, like uh so but we thought just why not just uh write uh down on pieces of paper and just pull the songs and uh and uh do it. Uh and we did. And I don't think any of us from the from the get-go was uh like thought this is perfect, but after like five minutes, we were like, no, this is perfect, let's do it just like this.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yeah, that other voice that we were talking about a little bit earlier. Sometimes it does take the pressure off and leaves you to do, you know, what you're both good at, obviously. So I want to dive into don't belong too a little bit because I I know that you mentioned Andreas, it's really about a dark place that you never want to go back to again. I heard a lot of kind of internalized isolation in the lyrics. So was that what was it that pulled you out of that dark space and made you want to carry on anyway?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

I've always been I've always been there uh since I was that it's like kind of what I got why I got into playing music was listening to to people express how they feel when they're in bad places. And I've done this for my since I was a teenager, and uh I've written so much about this. It's been like part of our uh um I like um identity to just like I this is the only place where I can actually describe how I feel about something, and it has to be exactly how I feel, and people have to understand how I feel. And it was my outlet, and uh I we did used to do this a lot more, but uh during this album we did a lot of uh how do you say it, uh high energy, almost a little bit more kind of uh party kind of music. I mean it's it's very high energy, and uh I've been in a good place now for a while, uh uh uh actually pretty long time. Uh so uh I I decided that I would try to at least write something where I can dive into to what I'm kind of staying away from. Since I'm I'm uh I have some diagnosis and I have uh I'm a sober alcoholic, uh, had a lot of problems with that through the years. And it's like looking at at the looking at it and going back to it and reminding myself of of all the shit that I worked through and uh all the the problems uh that not only I've had, but all the people around me have had with me to get me to the place that I am today. And um it's just it's it's kind of a thank I'm very thankful for that, but it's also something that when we're out playing every night, I talk to this, uh I talk about this subject with with our audience. And it's like for a place for me to connect uh uh very personally with people out in the audience. And you wouldn't believe like sometimes when we play, there's this, there comes these big uh two-meter muscly guys that would hug me like yeah, I just disappear in their arms and they cry and they say, I just needed somebody to say this, you know? Yeah, and so yeah, and and um I just feels like uh it felt so right to to be able to pour pour that part of me into a song on this album. And we I needed to, so I kind of put everything I got into that one when it comes to those feelings, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

I totally understand that to me, that's the core of what music is. It's expression, it is connection, and you're hitting on something interesting talking about how it's a space where men can excuse me, men can feel free to express themselves too. There it there aren't a lot of those, but depending on like what the culture's like, sometimes it's hard for men. Music is one of those spaces that you can do that. So, Patrick, would you agree that that's one of the things you love about music too?

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Yeah, definitely. I think it is. But I will as Sandra said, I always listen to music depending on what I do. I have like I'm on track list when I'm going to the gym, on track when I'm going out, or what if I sit working or whatever? And it's just something that connects people all over.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

You pick a certain song for a certain mood, a certain atmosphere.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Yeah, exactly. It's it's always mood driven.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

But are you do you listen to music anyway, even while you're writing your own stuff and you're putting together your own stuff?

SPEAKER_04 18:05

No, I'm not really like that. I just listen to you, but I I don't I don't get obsessed with stuff like Andreas does because I could just listen to something and and and it just goes through my head and I don't like listen to the lyrics, I just feel the vibe of what the music gives me. So we're being big different when when we do stuff in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Yeah, the only music that I can listen to actually is like the when my kids put their playlists on, like the three and six. That'll that'll work for me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

So what is a three and six year old listening to today? I need to know.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Uh well, there's a lot of Swedish pop and like the melody festival, but the good thing that I am actually standing exactly by a computer here, so it would be like uh um was it the what's the uh Bruno Mars one uh but the butt uh but yeah yeah yeah with Rosie. Yeah, it's some Taylor Swift and it's uh you know it's it's like popular uh music and there's a lot of uh uh Swedish pop songs and stuff like that. Uh so it's just uh and and and crazy frog and all these, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

All those, oh man. So they're getting exposed to multiple genres early. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah, and I listen to these really uh I've been playing music for so long, so it's I listen to these really complicated kind of stuff when I work. Okay, uh that is really uh um like yeah, well, kind of technical and complicated because it calms me down. But if I want to listen to if I want to listen to something, if I get a feeling that I want to listen to something, it's either pop songs that I like, both Swedish and things that are worldwide. But sometimes I get the feel when I get the real feel for it, I'll listen to uh the kind of style of music where we come from, you know. That's uh uh that'll get my gears uh going. But like I said, it's really hard. I I I ruin songs after three listenings because there's there's like an analytic part of it that it kind of ruins a lot of parts.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

It's hard, it's really hard, especially doing I mean that's what you do for a living. I can't imagine turning that off. I really can't. But the variety of genres, I mean, that we're talking about now, it's evident in your music, it has been almost the entire duration, really. So, is that your version of an homage to everything that you grew up loving?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Can you explain the word homage?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Like, like, um, are you excited? Meaning like you're you're recognizing you're you're giving a little bit of a nod to everything that you grew up listening to by including all these genres.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Uh well, I guess so. I mean, the the our band name, self-deception, comes from me and Eric back in the day when we started the band uh playing with our other musicians that said the music of style you want to do uh will never work in Sweden. Uh and we said, okay, fine, let's I guess we're deceiving ourselves. And so we called ourselves self-deception, and it stuck, you know. And of course, I mean, uh these bands like Lincoln Park and Papa Roach and even POD and System of Down and all these kind of what we listened to back then is uh uh we're kind of we play play kind of a close style of music, but I mean everything changes. Uh everything changes. So we don't we don't really discuss uh what kind of style of music or what kind of uh how we want to be presented. I mean it just it becomes what it becomes.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I understand. So I but because you're international, uh, do those conversations still happen about what works here, what works there?

SPEAKER_02 21:45

The only time that that actually uh is is uh uh we we talk about it is when we play uh like for example, some niche festivals. Like we're we're playing, we're playing at the metal festival. We might what have one song that we know. Would do better than another song, but we rarely move around like uh or change anything to please anybody.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

I understand. What does a successful lyric look like for you? One that you feel good about.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Wow, this is a uh this is a very uh this is gonna take some time.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

Yeah, how long do you have? This could take hours.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Well, if you think about it, Patrick, you could say the same thing for a riff or any anything you're creating as well. I'd be curious to hear your answer on that as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Well, well, well, that's just to to to grab a feeling, but it also connects with like what theme of the song it is and what what kind of lyrics it is. So it's all connected. But if you take like the example of the wedding, the song, and it just gives you a feeling of energy and you want to jump and do crazy stuff. And that's like that's the things I would like to have a hard, like massive breakdown with I don't know, it's it's just to grab a feeling and to get it in your body.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

I guess when it comes to the if it could when it comes to the lyrics, it's it's a lot about like the the whole package. It both aesthetically needs to uh fit like a framework. And but I'm a I'm I'm an avoidance writer. I don't want to write exactly about how uh like it's raining. I can't say that. And and this is I can't say that I feel um I'm dead inside. I have to write around round it to to make it more accurate for me. And I am a I'm a near rhyme, uh, near rhyme junkie. I cannot, I I hate rhymes that end the same if they're not in a certain uh place. I have like a list of a hundred, two hundred words that I would never use uh because uh they're they've always been used. So I have like a really difficult kind of framework and how I wanna where I want to put stuff. And uh it's uh when I when I when I check the box of all of those boxes and also it can deliver uh a song that uh everybody in the band and all the people that we work with can relate to, I feel uh I feel like I've done my job, you know. But it takes forever. I can I can sit on one word or one one sentence for an entire day and just I didn't get anywhere. Just how do I work this out? How do I get this to connect to because like the one the first part of the song and the last part of the song are perfect, but there's no bridge that'll uh that'll connect these without uh like deviating from the plan or changing the actual meaning that I'm not wanting to say. And also during that time, I need to find the right rhymes, and they cannot actually rhyme. They have to be book broken rhymes or closed rhymes and and near rhymes, and it has to be in a certain kind of way. So it's uh it's the it's the it's something that I hate doing because it puts a lot of pressure on me, but it's also something I could never live without because it's uh when I actually finish uh and and I'm proud of what I've done, it's the best thing ever. It's uh something that I, you know, it's the best feeling.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Got it. Translator, how do you relieve the pressure then when he's in when he's in the thick of it?

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Well, it's just to grab him for a minute and tell him to zoom out. Don't obsess at this point. What's the meaning of the whole sentence? What are you actually trying to say? And then I come in with something easy stupid, like you should say it like this, and then he turns that around, and then he finds another way out of it. So it's yeah, yeah. That you just have to make him get out of that obsession of a word.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Yeah, I I can I can never say I can feel it pumping in my veins while I fade away, even if that's would be the exact the exact thing that I mean. Uh it's something everybody's always said for the history of uh rock music or music, and just uh I it's it's so uh it's a cheap way of of for me. I want I want to have it to be, it has to be uh um it has to have that sparkle to it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

I understand. Is that also applied when it comes to the live shows? Just as much thought, just as much focus on the sparkle and making it work.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

We put a lot of effort into our production, of course, and we love like improving all the time and and doing things that are cool, but it's also it's not only for the audience, I mean it's also for us, but I I guess perfection isn't isn't as um uh like a 95% for us or 90% for us is still a very, very good gig. Uh and uh sometimes before we go out and play, we're like, okay, today's gonna be it's gonna be a hard night tonight. We gotta do at least like you always have the numbers, Hague.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Well, I'm sorry, I zoomed out for a minute. We gotta bring him back in.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

No, you always like before the gigs, you can say, like, okay, we at least today we need to bring 78. Yeah, today we do six to seven. Let's go. And and with the lower the lower the number he says, it actually becomes better the gig.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

Then it's always 110. Just there it is, because the pressure's off.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

I I yeah, no, yeah, and it's not like for us, it's not performing maybe uh per se the as a perfect musician, it's more about uh be like having the show become something that we like. Uh I mean if you play wrong or if you miss like a like your cue or something like that, that won't be that won't be anything that we of course will the next gig will do it better, but it's not the most important thing is that or the connection with the crowd and the connection with the people and what we feel uh uh feels good.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Um and you always need to leave a leave a leave a couple of percentage for the audience to give into the show as well. So again, it will bring it to 110.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah, some of our worst played gigs have been the audience that have made it work, you know? And uh some of our perfect, most perfectly played and and executed gigs uh weren't as good as that.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Right. Is there a fine line between letting the audience like totally sing for you and but but letting them join in enough so that it's a party, but not too much?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

We have uh selected spots where we know it works uh sometimes. Uh um I can just let them in because I can hear, I can hear how loud it is. Um, but we have a we have it like we have it really worked out, especially later in the tour when we have like a new album like we have now. We kind of we know kind of beforehand what what parts people will sing, but uh there's always parts that the actual crowd teaches us that this should be a place where we leave it for them, you know. Yeah, so uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

What was the last thing that the crowd did that surprised you, either of you?

SPEAKER_02 29:03

There's always there's always there's always strange things happening. There's always there's always strange things happening. Um there's always like flying uh like used, he always used to have this cowboy hat during one song that he always threw out, and it was always flying everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

Um but I wanted the best thing was when when this a friend of mine came to a show in Helsinki dressed up all as me in the like the same clothes that I have on stage. It was an exact copy of how I looked, and he actually had told me like six months before that. And yeah, but when I come to a show, I'm gonna dress up exactly like you, and I forgot about it. It was just insane. That was fun thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Could you tell immediately that that's what he was trying to do?

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Yeah, no, it was exact copy, he had the exact same clothes that I had. So he was so we got we got him on stage for the last song with with one of my extract bass guitars, and he just airplayed the last song on stage as well. So we had double bass players for that final. That was pretty epic.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

I love the camaraderie, but going back in time just a little bit, um how Andreas, how did you find a group of guys that were so aligned with your vision and what you wanted to do?

SPEAKER_02 30:21

So uh Eric uh of course, him and me, we founded the band together, even though I found him. Uh, we've done this since forever. Uh and uh, I mean, we had a we've kicked out a couple of musicians for different reasons. If it hasn't been uh a lack of interest, it's been like uh addiction or uh many different reasons. Uh and uh so uh Ronnie, our guitarist, he he he was he really liked us uh the way we sounded, and he had another band, but he came and tried out as a bass player, actually. This is before Patrick, uh yeah, that we're talking to now, uh uh to try out. But um no, actually, he showed up as a bass player at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

Yeah, exactly. And you choose me over him. That was a stupid choice.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Was it though?

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Was it not not now, not now looking back into it, but me and me and Patrick go back like a while, and we used to do uh we did these like uh high school and gymnasium, or maybe um is that the same gymnasium gym.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah, we we went, we did like these uh plays, school plays, uh as a musical and yeah, musicals. And so I already yeah, I already knew who he was. I already knew and he like Patrick is a guy that he knows a little bit about everything, you know. I know everything about a few things. That's like the difference between us. And I knew like he's the social guy, and he's a very coherent and you know, he like that's that's the guy I wanted in the band. And uh during the same time, Ronnie that uh is now our guitarist, uh, we also realized that me playing electric guitar at the same time as singing is actually uh is both are affecting each other, so we we gotta like take this apart. And so we took uh we took Ronnie in, and since then we've just been going. And I it's the the way the per like if you look at it today, we kind of feel like the the the cooper like how we work together is perfect, but it's not always been this way, it's been like a long marriage. You gotta like weave the shit out and then you know, work out and and get it everything working. I mean, uh, and and today we have. I mean, everything is uh it's not perfect, but I mean we want the same thing and we all care about each other, so it's a lot easier, you know.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

What is we all we all we we all get get invested in the thing that we do best in the band as well, since we run this as a company full time now. Like if you don't if you don't like to do introduce the stuff, you don't need to do it because it's just your best thing, then you do some other stuff that we need to do. So we always divide the the chores.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Oh, yeah, yeah, we got exactly we got so many different things that we're good at. Uh uh like skills that that like I don't have. Patrick is excellent, and and like our drummer is without this different skill sets. We we we learned that we're not supposed to like complain about okay, he wasn't doing this, I need help with this, blah blah blah. Because we got like, okay, let's use what he is good at, and and uh that's what we've done. Uh and uh it really helps us. Uh and and you know, we push each other to do as well as we can in our area uh of the company or or at the band self-deception. Um and that's worked out really good for us. And we all have to new learn new things, but I guess what we've done is to to really use our the sides that each individual is very good at.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

I understand maximized, yeah. Playing to strengths, it's that simple. Playing to everybody's strengths and letting everybody you know have the room to do whatever it is that they do best. Somebody's strength is social media. I'll just say it right now. I don't know who's doing it, but somebody is really, really good, really good at it. I'm I'm liking what I'm seeing lately.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Who is that would be both that would be both Patrick and our drummer Eric.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

Uh well we'll we'll give we'll give the credit to Eric. He does like all the videos, he set up all the photos and stuff. I'm just trying to answer people and talk to them. And but that's yeah, of course, yeah. But but he he makes all all the special stuff around it. Andreas is our ace on YouTube. I never go into YouTube even, but he he listens to see what people say. He does all the video premieres and stuff like that. So we're we're all juicing what we would love to do about the best at. It's just that single.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, Ronnie doesn't do anything but write riffs, that's all he does.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

Yeah, he he writes epic songs, he does all the technical stuff with guitars and setups for for our computers and everything that nobody else understands shit about.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

So yeah, yeah. Okay, he can use his engineer skills there. Yeah, exactly. I will be out of the case. It's all about the ones and zeros. I will be out of picture here for a minute, but I'll be still be with you.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Okay, well, so but Patrick, you've been in the game for uh just as long. You've been doing music forever as well. And I'm sure that that's something talking about social media, the internet, how it's used today, that wasn't always as essential as it is in music now.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Now it's a part of everything. You can have to use it as a tool to to reach out to to to get your audience and to talk to fans and to to spread your music and the word about Japan that way. So yeah, today it's really important. And you have to be more of an influencer than a musician sometimes. And I don't I don't mind really, but it's it's a lot of hard extra work that you didn't have to do before. Before you could just write awesome songs and go on tour, but now you have to have like 30% social media as well or 50%. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Right. Or or it might look like actually going to radio stations or actually being on TV or th or things like that. Instead of okay, you have full and total control over what you're putting out over the internet, and anybody can use the internet. It just it looks different today. So, how did you how did you adapt to that?

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Well, I think it came naturally, especially for me, because I've always been like a social media guy, been picking up on stuff early on, but but it's I could could always do more. I'm I'm not a pro in that way, but I think for me, it means it came naturally. Andreas is more like private for him, and he liked to keep his stuff more to himself and Ronnie as well. So it's so it's a for me, it's not been that hard. I don't I don't I don't mind being in the spotlight.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

So yeah. And are you learning are you learning how to edit, how to put everything together just kind of as you go? Are you like time to do that?

SPEAKER_04 36:36

I leave most of that to Eric because he's a pro editor. So all that technical stuff, he can do that. It's it's up to him. And then I I can keep the like the fan connection and stuff and talk to people and just try and try to keep it going and expanding in that way.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

You already uh definitely have an understanding of the importance in engagement. Is that part of the fun of social media for you?

SPEAKER_04 36:59

I think it is. I love talking to fans and people who write. And like I found find a guy like a couple of weeks ago, he wrote to us on our Instagram saying that we got him through a really hard, he had like a heart condition, and he had to do like really deep surgery, and he was about almost he didn't make it, but he he did. And he was like, your songs kept me, keep me kept me going through all of this, yeah. And so I was like, that's so it just took it to our hearts, and we he actually lives in a city in Finland, so I was like, Yeah, well, we'll get you on the guest list. So you you need to come to the show and meet us. And he was like, it's gonna be my first rock show, you guys are so awesome. And that just wow, that's like the best part of it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Yeah, and what a way to get inducted to your first show.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Like that that's VIP, that's fine, and that's just a little bit for us to give him back in some some kind. We would try to do that if we when we picked up these small pieces. You can't do it for everybody, but sometimes you find this these diamonds, and you just have to catch it.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

I mean, there's been a time during our career where we were uh getting uh this isn't many years ago, this is maybe five or six years ago, where we had to start making a choice uh as grown men that we probably can't like pour our entire lives into this forever. We really might gotta make it work. And I have got I had my my daughter had just been uh born, and uh like Eric has a daughter, and we had a like regular jobs the most of us. Uh and uh we had to make like a hard choice, but it's always been these people like that love the same thing that we do that has been keeping us going. And social media is the perfect place for that, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

What have you thought? Well, I'd love to hear your thoughts on just the transition because social media wasn't, we were talking about this, it wasn't always as essential in music as it is today. It wasn't always the internet aspect of get putting yourself out there, like that part of it wasn't technologically speaking as essential as it is today. So you're you know, you've been in the game for a minute, you've watched that transition. How has that been for you adapting?

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Well, I got uh we got into uh I was I wasn't the earliest on MySpace, but that was like the first uh kind of platform we were on. And uh I remember we were looking at other bands just uh killing it on on uh uh MySpace. And then Facebook came, and Facebook was actually pretty good when it came out in Sweden because we started like a um just a group on on, and I guess it was like it kind of uh was at the same time as we were a certain age where social media was the best thing that's ever happened, and we got to see we got to like meet new people online, and so we got this pretty kind of actually big uh large if you compare to like other big radio stations and stuff in Sweden, like a group, I think it was called then still, uh a page uh for self-deception, and people were really engaged into it. And uh I mean uh you can almost look at today, you can almost look at uh Spotify as social media, uh, but it was like and it's uh but then like Spotify was new, and I remember we were like in a music contest and they um we won the whole thing. Uh and they uh like we got some um what do you call it promo promotion time or what do you call it? Like yeah, uh for their commercials and everything. So I mean social uh media was uh we were lucky in some sorts, but it was very narrow. Now social media is such a machine today. And I mean, like the younger generations, they don't like social media, ugh, they're they're sick of this, at least around here. And uh, but you have to do it, and it's still like it's still the best way to to to to promote yourself today. But I mean the the change has been so big, it's it's it's gone from the greatest thing ever to just uh um uh a bunch of of problems that they're trying to like weave out, and now it's it's landing in something that is uh um a little bit changed, I guess, uh a little bit more regulated. Um but social media is is is still very important for us. And I mean it's it's great like for us to just uh people that want are interested for us to show what we're doing with our days and talk to the people, but it's such a um uh uh uh a platform of business nowadays. Uh it used to start, it started out as uh something where people could just uh be connected and I like this, you like this, and we'll talk together. Now it's half of everything is uh um commercials and and like for us, we also have to put like ads and stuff into it all the time. So it's not what it used to be, but it's still really great.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

It's it's grown, it's changed, it's evolved. It is, I agree, it is kind of like your business card anymore, so to speak, at least now, at least currently. So, what do you do you think that it's gonna be as important 10 years, 20 years? Do you think it's still worth paying attention to?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Now you know I'm a big dystopia nerd, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

So uh, so let's see if this can be like the the thing the the interview you go back to in like 10 years. Yeah, he was right. No, I believe I uh yeah, no, I guess please give us some theories, give us some theories. I believe in dead internet fairy. I think it's gonna collapse on itself and we're gonna go back to it to to a uh a kind of communication where we're kind of more kind of more direct than than landing on a platform where everything is everything, you know? Uh partially because of AI and what's put out, and it's just like a mess. Uh so I think the the internet as we have as we're looking at it today is gonna change a face in a big way.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

So yeah, so put this now in the time capsule, this video, and pull and pull it up, yeah, pull it up out of the ground in 10 years and we'll see if it's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Well, the only thing that does worry me is how quickly we embraced AI. I think there's pros and cons to it, but to embrace it as quickly as we have does make me a little nervous. I think there should have been a little bit more thought behind it first.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Yeah, but I I I think there's smart enough people to be able to have have a wide enough uh uh periphery when it comes to the whole uh it's just new for so many people, I think. The people that actually do it and are in in the organizations have a really good um uh view at it. And I mean, of course it sounds dangerous and it looks like it's uh uh I mean for us, we're musicians. Like now you can anyone can go out a like a social media place and just push a button and okay, I want you to write one of these songs. And it writes some decent songs, you know. And this is something that this is a skill that we've worked all our entire life to attain. So it's uh it's scary, but it's also like a part of the future. It's it's it's it's a Inevitable. It's uh almost like evolution there. It's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

It really is. I I but I hope that what doesn't change is the physical, tangible instruments themselves and everybody loving to just play that because I think that's what's gonna keep the authentication. That's what I'm saying. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

And also also, like I said, that that like uh like at least here in in in uh in the Nordic countries, uh the the some some kids are are being forbidden to like in Denmark that you can't use social media until you're 16, but around around uh around in Sweden and stuff, it's like the the younger kids, they don't post stuff, they don't like put things out. It's like ugh, and it's I think it's this it's gonna be the same way when it comes to like that kind of content. It's gonna be icky, you know. You want to you want to touch, you want to feel the quality uh and hear the quality for real before you can believe. I I think it's only we're we're only scraping the surface here with all these pictures and videos of famous people that that that you think is real, but it's not. It's yeah, I am so sure of the the internet collapsing on itself that that I have I'm not worried at all.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Time capsule, we're gonna put it in. Uh so the album that's coming at one of us, I mean, we could time capsule that too. We could look back at this and say, hey, are some of the themes the same? Are they still things that we're talking about as a society today? Like I know your summer is mainly gonna be spent in Europe, but past that, what do you think the future looks like for self-deception?

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Well, we know what we want to do, and we know what we're doing. Like in the this fall, we're gonna have a we have a uh we're doing two tours, one that is announced and one that is not yet announced. And uh we have uh we're working on the uh on tours for next year. So uh what our we want to do is of course uh tour the world and go go see. We were like we were in Canada uh this um in August, September, and it was just like we loved going that part. We've been in in Australia and uh it's I mean we we love to go to new places and just if it's not like we don't need to become like the biggest, uh the most um famous band in the world, but it's something that connecting with people all around the world that's like kind of our goal, at least. Right.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

And one of our biggest goals as a group and individuals is to play America and just go across the USA. It's it's been yeah, we were so bummed out. Was it last year? Well, no, two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

Well, when the tour we were supposed to go to Loudden Life and uh Aftershock, but it got cancelled due to visa problems. Oh god, yeah. We had we also had a we had a short, we were disclosed.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

It's that it's it's the tariffs, it's it's a lot. The our country is going through a lot, I can say it. Like we really are.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

We had a short tour also uh uh that we had released tickets to and everything. So, but during that time, there was a very special situation with the American embassies here in uh uh here in Sweden and uh also around the the Nordic countries that were backed up, and there was for some reason like something that should take uh weeks, could take months, and uh it was just uh it was uh uh partially human error and not just uh and and partially systematic. So it was it was it's really bad, and and it was too bad because we had the festivals, we had everything because it's not the cheapest. We can book tour uh a tour uh in the US, but we might got to make sure that everything works out because of tariffs and and how things uh the costs of it and and uh make it work out work out. But we it's it's on the bucket list, you know. We need to do this as soon as we can. And right now we're I I would say we're at our the most prime we've ever been. So we want to show what we have right now to everybody in the States.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

And you're excited about it, and I can tell. I I absolutely can tell that you're excited about what you've been doing recently. Minnesota specifically will embrace you. I'm just gonna tell you that right now. There's a lot of your fellow countrymen here, a lot of your diaspora here, like a lot of Swedes, a lot of other Scandinavians, they're here. We're ready for you.

SPEAKER_04 48:09

Awesome. Sounds perfect.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for your time and best of luck with everything.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Thank you for everything, Val. It's been awesome.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

The new album, One of Us from Self-Deception, out May 15th. Mark your calendars, stream it. You're gonna enjoy it. I promise. Especially the wedding. The wedding is is a lot, it's a lot of energy. We love it. So get your hands on that, check it out. I will give you all the links to do so in the show notes here. Captions, all that good stuff, and of course at valclinehands.com. We'll see you next time. Bye.