A Moments Notice on Side Hustles & Staying Afloat

It's not unheard of for band members and artists to have side hustles. We talk to the king of side hustles this week: Greg Molina of A Moments Notice. 

What does it really take for a band to land a national tour? Is the key to "success" landing at least 10,000 followers monthly? How do we find the time for it all? Is there such a thing a criticism that's too harsh?

Greg answers all of those questions, while sharing what it's like while juggling A Moments Notice and multiple side hustles. 

Get more A Moments Notice: https://www.instagram.com/amomentsnoticeofficial/

Listen to Make Your Mark podcast: https://linktr.ee/makeyourmarkpodcast?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGncYwEl7pWufWWTU3d03Cq05LNKlP-7nRnXyfjItiTEGwwAhOOEGhXtmbUDA8_aem_5s5H68vE1F8Hc7mW-KNhvA

Get more Val at https://valkleinhans.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Everybody trying to chase that 10,000 monthly listeners to get some sort of like base level. All right, 10,000 monthly listeners, that's a good amount. That's when people start kind of taking you seriously. And you want to float around that. So it takes 10,000 people at least listening once a day to one of your songs for you to stay there. And that's great. Also highly unrealistic.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

We should be living minds vigorously.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Welcome to another edition of Vigorously with me, your girl Valkyle Hands. Very stoked to get into a number of different things, a variety of different topics on this pod because the the deck of all trades are meeting this episode, is what's happening. Greg Molina, a moment's notice in the building. How are you, sir? Welcome. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Great. I'm I'm great. I'm super happy to be here. I love podcasting. So yes. This is right where I'm at home.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yes, you are also a podcaster. You are also a hairstylist. You are also a singer. Which came first?

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Uh uh, the the singing. The singing was the yeah. Um man, I guess like since I was a kid, I was always singing. Um, my mom was always like, You just you just love music. And I was like, I do, and then went to my first concert when I was 14. Like, first like actual show. Like, I've never been to a concert before. And like our friend was like, Hey dude, do you want to go to this show? And I was like, Oh, sure. Uh, I don't know. I'm just a kid who skates. And somehow I ended up at a Lionheart Warriors Waltz of Jericho, Born of Osiris, and As Blood Runs Black show was my first show.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Hell yeah, that's a lineup.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a fucking line. Most people that hear the story, they're just like, How the fuck was that your first show?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Like, Jesus Christ. I know. Mine was Spice Girls in '98.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I mean, you would think it would have been that for me, but no, it wasn't. Uh yeah, no, I I kind of just went right into death core, and everybody was like, How you doing? And I was like, I I heard them do bracelets into bow down for Born of Osiris, and I was like, I want to do that. How do I do that? And then they were like, My friend's like, I don't know, nobody knows how to really scream like that. You have to just like learn it. And I was like, Alright, well, I'm gonna do it. And now 20 years later, I'm still doing it. Still doing it, but crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

But do you feel like you're still constantly experimenting and learning? Because I hear that from so many musicians, that that's like a key part of staying consistent in doing what they do.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

I feel and there's I don't really think there's a better way for me to put it. Even when I thought I had figured it out, um I got into the studio with our uh producer Nick Miller from A Skylight Drive, and he in the most loving way beat the shit out of me with constructive criticism. Oh yeah, it was your timing, you need to work on this. This is the I was like, oh my god, I suck. Like, and and like I'm still to this day, like it's like I'm not trying to seek his approval, but I'm just like, did I get it? And he's like, Yeah, you got it. He's like, actually, yeah, you got it. And I was like, he's like, next line, and I'm like, oh, here we go again. The the horrors persist. Um, but I would be nothing without Nick. Um, he has in the last four years has really like blossomed me into the artist that I am attempting to be. Um, and I say attempting because this is everyone trying to attempt music in some sort of facet. We're all attempting to do it in some capacity, whether our goals are different or the same, it is an attempt. And it's a very uncomfortable attempt most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Oh, we're gonna get into all that because I'm sure being an artist looks a hell of a lot different 20 years later than when you really started to do it, really started to get into it, and I definitely want to ask about that. But yeah, the lore behind a moment's notice itself. You guys, you describe yourselves as constantly still learning, too. For anybody that doesn't know, give us the lore behind the origin story. How did it all come together?

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Um, so originally it was a solo project. Um and it was actually, funny enough, um, suffocates old vocalist Jared, kind of he saw me do a Lorna Shore cover and he was like, and then he like DMs me, and I'm like, the hell is Jared DMing me for? Like, this guy doesn't he doesn't have the time a day to have to message me, but he does, and he's like, What are you doing? You need to be in a band. And I was like, I don't know anybody, I don't do anything, I just work and I've been out of the music scene forever. And he was like, No, you need to be in a band. And I was like, I don't even know where to record right now, dude. And he's like, I got you. Next thing I know, Nick Miller messages me and he's like, Hey, what's up, dude? Heard you try to come in, and I'm like, I guess Am I okay?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I was like voluntold.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

I was like, I got voluntole in a sense to like make music, and I was like, uh, okay. And um, we recorded the first two songs together, and I was like really kind of shocked that the first song hit over a thousand streams, and I was like, hmm, hmm. And then I was getting messages from the Facebook page, and it was like people being like, Hey, like, I see it's only two guys, you know, it's more of an internet thing. Like, what do you want to do? Like, do you want to be a band? And I was like, ah, and just had members kind of reach out, and our original guys, um, unfortunately, none of them are with us, other than Sergio. Bless that guy's heart. Uh, he's a type one diabetic who got COVID and his kidneys failed, and he's been on dialysis our entire career. And um, even with everything that's gone on in the band, like even like you know, personal conflict or whatever, like he's just like, nope, I'm rocking it, I'm doing this till the wheels fall off.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

And I'm like, uh uh okay, and even apparently you are if dialysis is involved. Like, yeah, apparently you are if you're still doing this in the middle of all that. I mean, that's be that that's rare.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

It's yeah, it's insanely rare. He does it, he goes on dial, he goes to dialysis every other day on tour, and he's in pain, and then he like pops like a thousand milligrams of edibles, and then he's like, All right, I'm ready. And I'm like, weren't you just dying? I'm like, I don't I don't understand. Like, what's happening here, guy? And he just he's like, nope, I'm here, let's do this. And I'm like, bro, and somehow through the member changes and through everything with us, um, it's just been him and I, and we've always just had a constant vision of what we wanted to do and how we wanted to do it, and um yeah, I feel like now like we're like kind of like really catching our stride. We f figured out what we want, what we don't want, um, what our sound wants to sound like, um, how we address certain things, how we go about the way that we operate as a band. Um, but all that came with all the hard lessons that we had to learn, and I guess the lore of the band was really just I got bullied into it. And now I'm like here doing it, super happy that I'm involved in music the way I am. And I mean, I I can't think of doing anything else, and that's why I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

There we go. Okay, so he obviously Sergio knows being a creative, being in a band, that's in his heart, that's what he wants to be doing. I can tell the same from you, just from like what you're doing now, obviously, and the additional jobs. Hair is creative, podcasting is creative, making music is creative. So, at what point did you realize that you had the same calling to do something creative?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

You know, I really didn't even I'm gonna be honest, like, even when I first started doing music, yeah, I loved being creative and I loved doing stuff. Um I guess the light bulb didn't hit until we dropped our first record. And and need I remind you, this is what 17 years into making me 16 years into being an like able to scream. Let's just put it that way. Being able to scream for like the last 16 years, and then all of a sudden out of nowhere, I'm like, oh, cool. And then I was building something. Oh, I was building our RV backroom and the bunks and everything. And um, my basis was this like, dude, you really like just making things, and I was like, I guess I do, huh? And I was like, I guess that's the creativity of me. And then I also work at a bar, so yeah, it's like people are just like, Oh, you're just like in like the creative aspect of it, and I'm like, Yeah, like cocktails, hair, whatever. I'm like, I just like making stuff happen, like it's just kind of cool to plug things in where they need to be.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, one of the ways that I think we do convey that is through communication. Podcasting is one of the best platforms in the world to communicate, obviously, for sure. Tell me about Make Your Mark, that's the pod. Give me a little bit of a taste of what we get when we listen.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Um, so Make Your Mark's whole mission statement is talking about artists and their experiences and trying to define themselves in the music industry, which is a very heavily saturated market, um, and just breaking out of the noise and defining themselves, making their mark on the industry the way that they're wanting to make it. And everybody's um vision is different, there's similarities everywhere, but there's also different stories and different trials, different tribulations that we all go through. And I've heard some crazy stories, and I've heard some like ones that I'm like, holy shit, how did you go through that? And then sometimes I'm just like, Yeah, that that that's that's about normal. And then I'm like, that sounds about I'm like, that sounds about right. Like, yeah, and then some of them I'm like, you did what? Like, holy shit, like that's crazy. So it's like make your mark is just such an it is such a blessing because it was kind of an an idea that um Sol and I had come up with. Um and I was talking to him on the phone and it had been like three hours, and I was like, What are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Why is the microphone not on? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Dude, I was like, you know, I've always wanted to start a podcast. He's like, dude, me too. And I was like, holy shit, all right, cool. Like, are we actually gonna do this? And then, like, I think he was getting done with a tour. Yeah, he was going on tour with um I think Miss May because he he's in traders, and um we linked up. I I I was talking to him when he came into town, and then I was like, dude, and I was like, uh, so are we really gonna do this? He's like, Yeah, yeah, we're doing this, and I was like, sick. So then we started getting people on, and yeah, now we're in season two of Make Your Mark, and crazy. Like, I I like the first year it was just it just flew by like it was nothing. I mean, some of the rooms and some of the conversations, some of the people's and phone numbers that I have in my phone now. I'm like, Wild. How did I yeah? I'm like, how did I end up in this? Like, like it's so cool, but it's humbling at the same time because I hear a lot of the stories and the the road maps that they've all gone through, and I'm like, holy shit. And I'm like, this is this is crazy. Like, there's so many similarities in everything, and it's just different levels of it. Yeah, it's uh it's really eye-opening as an artist talking to other artists.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

I would imagine it's comforting too. It's gotta be just to hear that okay, this is normal. This other people have been through this too.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah, like uh me walking away from music and Mike Terry being like, Yeah, you can't walk away. He's like, No matter what you do, it'll always call you back. He's like, it's something in us that is just he's like, You could try, you could try to run, but it's always gonna come, it's always gonna come back somehow, some way it's gonna come back to some capacity. You're gonna be involved in it. And I was like, damn it, you're right. I was like, Yeah, you're kind of right. I was like, there's no walking away from this one, is there? And he's like, nah, nah, never. He's like, that'll that'll be you forever.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, that's what happens with passion. I mean, I saw recently one of the more recent episodes, I saw what you called a hot take, but I I didn't quite think it was a hot take because I guess I thought it was universally known. And it was which the take was being a musician is like the most uncomfortable thing in the world, and personally I get that. It is absolutely true, it is absolutely valid. And I know this from spending a lot of time with other artists, and I it wasn't news to me. So, but I was curious if you could elaborate on that. Why did you feel like the fact that everything it takes to be a musician is essentially uncomfortable was such a hot take?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

People are like you're passionate about it, you love it, it's so amazing, and it makes you feel something. And yes, all that, but I I would say that is three percent of what you have to do as an artist. Everything else is you're in the vocal booth and you got a mic, you've got a microphone in front of you, and that that you know, spotlights on you, and you're sucking, and you can't get nothing right, and then you're like you finally get it, and you get the song done, and everyone, and then people love it, and then some people hate it, and you're like, whatever, it's it's done, it's over with, there's nothing I could do about it. But like, most people can't public speak, and I'm basically doing that every single night on tour. Like, that's like it's it's so foreign for people to do things out of their comfort zone, and I say it's so uncomfortable because every step of the way there's a level of discomfort that you have trying to learn smoke on the water on guitar, and you're like, I can't make this song happen. Oh, like or how do I how do I thump with a with my thumb on bass and like get it perfect and resonate properly? And you just do that for hours and hours and hours, and it's just like, dude, my hands hurt, everything sucks. Like, I'm like spending money on strings, and it's like, yeah, pretty uncomfortable, isn't it? And they're like, Yeah, and I'm like, Yeah, get used to it.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, well, and just turning on a camera for some people, too. Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

So people, oh my the amount of people I've had on the podcast that are like, dude, I don't do good in public speaking, so I was really nervous about this on camera, but it's just having a conversation with friends, and I was like, exactly, and that's why I love podcasting because it's just uh friends having a conversation, and that's that's really all it boils down to.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah, so it's you're more so referring to the stuff that's unseen, the stuff that we're not really aware of, the behind-the-scenes stuff that you don't realize personally. Some people have to get over to make everything look cool and pretty for the rest of the world, yeah, and feel and fail in public sometimes too.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah, like Noah Sebastian has terrible anxiety, yeah. And he's like, I don't go out there and talk to people. I my my anxiety is killing me the entire time. And I'm like, I feel that. Like I'm 40 minutes before I get on stage, I'm on vocal rest, I have not said a single word, I've already done my warm-up, and I am not doing anything other than making sure my vocals are warm and I'm drinking tea for like 40 minutes straight. And people are like, Don't you have to pee? I'm like, after.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

I don't think about it during.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

I'm like, I'm like, the minute that first metronome kicks in, and I'm like, yep, and go. This is grab my mic and do the thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah. I you gotta do what you gotta do. And this does kind of tie into what I noticed were some of your thoughts on social media and how like today it is absolutely necessary for bands to be comfortable on camera, another uncomfortable thing musicians have to do. I mean, we're I'm guessing you and I are pretty close in age, so we know a world with and without social media, but I was wondering from the musician's perspective, did you anticipate that social media or anything like it, the internet in general, would be such an integral part of what it takes to be a man today?

SPEAKER_02 17:47

But also I was like, I don't fucking like it. I came from my space, like I'm like I'm like, dude, like it was so much easier, and I'm like, or maybe I just had more free time. I don't really know, to be honest with you. Um god man, I just didn't, it was it's the I I run a uh page called Nasty Breakdowns as well that I just started um for more like meme videos and stuff like that. I I'm friends with Jay Muller and Sean Labrew, who run Breakdown King and uh Filthy Breakdowns, and their insight was just like, yeah, just do it. And I was like, all right, cool. So like doing more social media like has I would say been a learning lesson for me. I'm like, I gotta be a little bit more involved on social media, I gotta be more involved in my community, I gotta be more involved in this and that. And um, I mean, now like you go on my social media and it's just it's just videos and pictures, like galore, and there's no shortage of me posting, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Consistency, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Like I I post a lot, um probably more than the average person. Um, and I could possibly do more, but working as much as I do, there's just no like I have to get kind of creative sometimes and just like throw content out, and somehow it works, and sometimes it doesn't. And yeah, that's just part of the lesson, I guess. Like, I I just didn't realize how mu the volume, I guess, of it would be.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Right. Well, because let's come correct here. You there is no team behind you doing this. This is you guys. This is this is you.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Nope. Yep, it's it's us. Uh, when we're on tour, my wife uh will make the post for us so that we can sleep and do shit because you know, we're burnt out. And um our whole crew that we have has kind of more or less been with us since the beginning. Um, same photographer. Um, our friend of house guy just happened to like do our second or third show and was in a local band out here, and we were like, we really love his sound and we love what he does. And so um we found an X32 online and it was at a local store, and I called him like instantly and was like, dude, you need to go get this. And so, like, we have a team behind us, but it's probably the most DIY team you've ever seen. Like, we we've we've cultivated this to really bring a lot of like our friends together and like make something special.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, you're calling them your friends, not like your team. So, this is obviously the product of relationship building, which yeah, which in itself is uncomfortable for some people. Was that natural to you?

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Oh man. Uh no, I was a hermit. Uh um, I just didn't know how to really talk to people. I didn't know how to do a lot of that like face-to-face stuff, and like have the certain amount of etiquette or tact in my in my voice or things that I said or getting too excited and saying things that I that may be misinterpreted. Um there was a lot of hard lessons uh for me to learn, but it were they were needed for me to have them. And I like to say that like most of the teachings I got were from people that told me something I wasn't ready to hear yet, and it became a lesson that I learned later on, and then I was like, uh, okay, I get it now. And then I would circle back and rekindle friendships with people and stuff, and it was it was hard to learn. Um, it's just a different way of you know, these guys are all most musicians are pretty burnt out, they're pretty tired. Um, what you see is pretty much the scrubbed down version of what they got left in them, and then they get in the van and they're they're like, Yeah, I I've had my AirPods in the entire time. I haven't said a fucking word in all right, drive.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Onto the next.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

It's like no nobody's saying it was you know it was a crazy night, and the like it took a lot out of us when like the entire bus is like dead silent, and you're just like nobody's saying a single word. Everyone's just everyone's playing video games or like listening or watching a movie or something, and they're just like zomped out, and you're just like, Yep, yep, that that checks out.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

We're still trying to process what happened. No, no, believe me, I will throw Mortal Kombat on if I need to like process something something that happened in my day or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

So what's tight?

SPEAKER_00 22:40

It's it's so tight. I love it. That Street Fighter, any of the above, those are usually my games, my go-to, Super Mario Kart, all that. What are what's on in the bus? What's on when it comes to gaming or movies?

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Usually, oh man, I mean, lately I've been playing a lot of R creators. I'm not, I'm not, I'm guilty of it. Uh, I was the last one in my friend group to get the game. Okay, I'm now the one that has the most hours in the game.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Uh not proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

How does that happen, Mr. Four Jobs? How does that happen?

SPEAKER_02 23:20

I get home from the bar around like probably three o'clock in the morning, and most of the time I'm like playing for like an hour or two before I go to bed.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Because you're still amped, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yeah, I'm still wide awake, and I'm like, I'm still from dealing with people and all that. And I'm like, all right, last call, everyone, get the fuck out, please. And then I'm like, hey, this is my sixth time telling you. I would love to 86 you if you do not get out of my bar. I'm like, this is me saying goodbye. Like, I want to go home. I have a family, I want to be with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Even though it's really I'm going home, I'm playing art raiders, and then I'm gonna spend time with my family while they all sleep, and I'm sleeping next to them.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

That's how we spend time together. Got it. Do you think we're gonna get a GTF 6? Never, never, never really was hopeful. I was hopeful with the ads we were seeing lately.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

I'm like, maybe didn't they cancel it?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

I thought I thought I saw something with EA sent or like whatever they said, like, oh yeah, we're canceling it, and I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

That was a lot of to-do over nothing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I was like, yeah, that was wow. Okay. Who knows? Like, uh, who knows why they what they're doing with that game, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Well, one thing we do know for sure is the fact that constructive criticism has absolutely been helpful to you throughout this entire journey and whatever it is that you're doing day to day. But it's hard to be receptive to that. It's it's not easy, especially the first couple times you hear it. So, what would you tell somebody that's still getting used to that and still trying to process rejection and understanding that that's all part of the process?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Don't chase the wind. Like I always tell people, don't chase the wind. I'm like, Can you grab air? And they're like, No, and I'm like, don't chase it. They're just words, bro. I'm like, I'm like, take it with a grain of salt, understand it, live with it, but don't try to chase it. Don't try to chase the validation of that person or whatever. Like, I think action goes a lot further than that. Um and like in a sense, it is linear. Like, I've been told that it wasn't, but growth is pretty linear for me. I feel like it's one of those things where like if you want to make a change, you can make a change right now, and you can adapt it. And not saying it's gonna be perfect, but the first 30 days, you're gonna really be working on that, and then after that, it becomes a habit, and then you know, two months in, you're like, okay, cool. But like it really needs you to like get that. Like, I'm I'm in a bad spot right now, and more or less, I think that like people that are trying to understand it, like, yeah, just don't chase the wind, like, just accept the fact that like it's gonna happen, like you're gonna learn lessons. It's not, I mean, I didn't know how to scream properly until I did. I mean, it's just and even now I think I still could have room to improve. Like, I'm like, somebody somebody told me the other day that I'm like, how do I get into national touring? Like, I wish wanna do that. Like, I don't know, man, write better, write better lyrics. And I was just like, ow, ow, ow. Do I take that constructive criticism and run with it? And like, all right, really, like hammer on my my like and be like kind of trying to prove it, or do I be like, his advice was kind of poop, but I see what he's saying, yeah, and I'm going to kind of do something off of it, but like, screw that guy.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Well, that that's just it. It's it's a checks and balances, it's a filtration system. Like, do I value the opinion of who is giving me this feedback? Do I want to emulate in any way what it is they're doing? If the answer to that is yes, perhaps I will give it serious consideration. That's kind of what I do.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Like, yeah, and even so that yeah, even sometimes I'm I tell people, like, I'm like, yeah, cool, you like you look up to them and stuff like that, but like maybe they're just not the type of people you think they are. Maybe they just somehow got lucky. And I'm like, realistically, like, you gotta find your people and you gotta find your camp and you gotta build it. And like, you know, street teams used to be a thing, and like those are people that rode for bands, like, like, oh yep, they're playing, a hundred people are automatically there, like guaranteed it's gonna happen. So it was it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah. Were you tapping into? I mean, the audience that you do have, let's be real. Like, you do have an audience. So, you were you tapping into that when you were chatting about what it takes to be part of a national tour? It sounded to me like it was like a call to arms, like, hey, we're trying to make this happen. Let's go. Yeah, so yeah, what does what does it take to be on a tour? Like, help help the non-musician understand why they're so much involved with that.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Man, um well, I'm as much as I I love Spotify, I also absolutely have a hate relationship with them as well. Um Spotify's monthly numbers and the amount of streams and everything is very awesome for being transparent. I agree. Where I don't agree is that it makes it kind of a dog fight. It's everybody trying to chase that 10,000 monthly listeners to get some sort of like base level. All right, 10,000 monthly listeners, that's a good amount. That's when people start kind of taking you seriously. Um, and you want to float around that. So it takes 10,000 people at least listening once a day to one of your songs for you to stay there, and that's great. Also highly unrealistic, if you think about it. Um, people's attention spans, oh, they they hear a song, they see a movie, you know, 10 times, they're over it, right? But I encourage people like if it's a smaller band, listen to that song the whole entire way through, throw it on a playlist with a bunch of bands that you listen to, and then when that song comes on, you listen to it all the way through, and it actually tricks the algorithm to allow you guys to like hear us with four fans of. And it's like, you know, we've been turned down 15 times for national tours now over the last year.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Based on these numbers, like you're so you're saying they're leveraging these numbers, they're or that's what makes it legit.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah, it's more so like they're not there yet, or oh, what do they sell? Like, how do the where have they toured? And it's like the tour options are kind of like the hardest part, to be honest with you. Like, getting on these tours is it's you gotta know somebody, or somebody's gotta vouch for you, or something has to happen, or like you gotta blow up, and that's kind of really it. Like, it's I mean, the trenches I've known bands that have been touring actively for five years, been on their eighth year of being a band, and they're like, they're fried, like they're like, I don't think it's gonna happen, bro. Like, we're gonna get a cool couple out accolades here and there, like play chaos and carnage or something, and like that'll be cool, but like is it going to do anything for us career-wise? Are we ever gonna see that hundred thousand monthly listeners? Like, like you maybe, and you just don't know. And it's like, you know, you have 30 seconds to gain their attention, you have one song to make them a fan, and that's set, and it's like, and if those people don't stick, those people don't stick, and that's it's really tough right now for artists, and we don't make anything off of streams, so release your music how you want to release it. If people are like, Oh, you're stream grabbing, and I'm like, Who's making money off of streams, bro? I'm like, bro, we're we're getting 0.004 per stream. Like, it's not like the old days when you know, like re you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll and money, and money's getting flaunted everywhere. Like, it's not like that. Like, you're not making money off of your record sales, you're you're making money off of streams, and that doesn't pay very well. And merch is pretty much the only way to really do it, and even then you're reinvesting it into meta ads, Spotify ads, like trying to just pump anybody and everybody to your platform and listen to your music, and then you know, Spotify's got such a bad reputation with even listeners that now it's like, yeah, there's a lot of people on on the platform, but a lot of the I would say the metalheads are kind of like Apple Music or something else, and like they don't really like want to give Spotify their money, which is valid, but it the industry has made Spotify kind of like the like just the set standard, right? And that that within itself is it it's an uphill battle. You're you're constantly trying.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Well, it does. It sounds like the goalpost constantly moves, it sounds like the list of criteria that it takes to be taken seriously continually grows. It's oh yeah, it's a lot, and but I appreciate that you do speak so candidly about it, not just here right now, but on on the pod. So, where does that come from? Does that come from a desire for transparency? Where did the ability to do that come from?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Uh, it has got me in more trouble than than good. Uh I am very honest. Uh, there's something about me I'm never gonna lie. I just don't lie. I I don't. I have no reason to lie to you. If I don't think you got it, you don't got it. If you're like, what do you think about my haircut? I'm like, nope, it's not the one. And like most people are like, god damn. And they're like, Yeah, but you're honest. I have friends that even call me and say, like, hey man, need your advice. I'm like, you want me to tell you what you want to hear, or you want me to tell you what you need to hear? And they're like, I want the Greg version. And I'm like, all right, well, buckle up. And and I'm transparent because at no point do I want you to be like, what's going on in his head? Like, what's he thinking about? I'm like, no, I'm gonna tell you how I feel. Like, even if you don't like it. Like, and I'm sorry, but like I just I don't do non-transparency, and when you say something, stay with that.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Hey, I'm not a fan, I'm not a fan of this band. Okay, I'm not a fan of that band. I wasn't a fan of that band, but now I am. Okay, cool. Or hey man, I'm gonna do this for you, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do all that. Well, it's gonna be great. All right, cool. Well, be about that. Be a man of your of your word or woman or whatever you identify as, and be truthful. Say what you're gonna say, be transparent, and don't worry about hurting somebody's feelings because we if somebody's asking for that transparency, they're more likely like ready to hear the bad and the good. And a lot of my friends have now been kind of like the people that are like, Oh, yeah, hey, I'm actually calling you for your nitty-gritty advice.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Yeah, at the very least, they have the desire to grow. That's what that shows.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah, and I mean, I've had friends be like, dude, why are you so fucking mean? And I'm like, I'm like, I'm not mean, I'm just really fucking honest, and I just cannot sugarcoat anything. I'm sorry. Like, I'm like, I'm sorry, like if you're a band that that has 4,000 monthly listeners and you can't pack a hundred people into your local venue, you're not trying hard enough. And they're just like, wow, hot take.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

And I'm like, I mean, have you met me?

SPEAKER_02 35:53

I'm like, or like, you know, like a band sells five tickets, and I'm like, not okay, so all of you only have one friend? You only have one friend on your social media? I'm like, I highly doubt that. There, you guys have so many people on your social media, blast them all. Same message, even maybe, you know, copy paste it and just blast them out. I'm like, if you can't get 50 people to your hometown venue that are your friends, you're not doing it. And and I've said that to people and they're like, Well, that's kind of messed up. And I'm like, is it? Or you just don't have solid people around you. Like, you gotta cultivate this, you gotta make people want to come see you. And even if they don't think they want to come see you, you gotta kind of force them to see you, and then they're like, Oh, I gotta come to the next one. You bring them in and then you show them why they're there, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Part of it might be the realization that, oh man, now I know I have to do something that I'm uncomfortable with to get to where I want to go. And someone just laid it out plainly for me, and now I'm having that realization and it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah, I mean it yeah, probably, to be honest. I mean, for me, I just like I said, I'm I'm pretty candid about it, and I'm like, hey man, if you can't sell 10 tickets, man, you're probably not gonna play here. Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna add you onto a bill with me. I'm like, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

No, I feel you on that, and I I've heard the same thing. We were talking about merch a little bit ago, too. I've heard about how important and how increasingly important just selling merch at the show becomes for any band. Whose idea was it to do the Stranger Things Demogorgon themed merch? Because that was genius. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

I was like, man, we're playing with Left to Suffer. I kind of want a new t-shirt, I want to do something limited, and I was like, I really don't know what to do. And then I was watching Stranger Things and I was like, Yes, I have an idea, guys. And they were like, Let's hear it. And I was like, I shot them the idea and they were like, yo, I'm kind of here for that. And I was like, hell yeah, so I um another person who's with us, a friend of mine, uh Kendall, from formerly of Dead Crown. Um, now he's in another band called Six Below. And um, yeah, he's been doing our our merch designs forever, uh, for like the last four years. And I just hit him up and was like, hey man, I got this idea. And he was like, say less, demogorgons, let's go. And then I was just like sick, and he sent us over the design, and I was like, Hell yeah, dude. So yeah, Kendall's great. I I love him. I've been working with him for years, and I can't think of anybody else I would want to work with.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Oh, that's so cool! And last season, obviously, the final season, fan freaking task, Will's moment where he finally steps into his power. That was all I needed to see. That was I I he I've been a biggest fan of him. The that I've been the biggest fan of him, like really the whole time, honestly. But that moment was so satisfying as a fan.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Yeah, I I dude, I I kind of get got a little like in my feels like when he like he finally was like, Hey guys, I'm I I'm gay. And I was just like, Yeah, bro, we've everybody I think everybody knew, but like at the same time, I'm like, Good for you, get out there, go go speak your peace. In a time that was really it wasn't as like accepted.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well, especially if you think, yeah, if you think about okay, this is the 80s in the Midwest, like let's put that in perspective. You're absolutely right about that. He's literally and figuratively stepping into his power, just like by taking on demogorgans on his own, calming out, that whole story. That that was incredible.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Just all the characters. I'm gonna miss it. I love I loved it. Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm I'm definitely gonna miss it, and I will definitely probably rewatch it on tour just because it's like you know, hey, it's a it's a great show. But like, I'm also a Star Wars person too. So like people are like, I hate the new Star Wars. I'm like, I'm just glad we get more Star Wars.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Why do people there's so there are so many opinions about like episode one sucks and anything after also sucks? Anything previous is fine, like there is gatekeeping happening in the Star Wars world.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

I don't people want what they want, and I understand it, and like good for them. Great. I'm just happy I get to consume more of what I was enjoying to some capacity, even if it's not my cup of tea. Like, I love early Devil Wars product, love it, everything up to the you know, the oh my god, uh zombie ZP. I thought was like top-tier metal core. It was done beautifully, and I loved every second of it, and then the newer stuff came out, and I was like, and I wasn't really bought into it. Um recently I've gone back and like kind of listened to a lot of it, and I'm like, okay, I get it, and I get the why the progression had to happen the way it did, and and I can see what they were doing, and I'm like, okay, I get it, and I enjoy it, and I'm I'm I'm here for it. Um now, would I if you asked me to stream it over the zombie ZP, would I? Probably not, because that that was like I I still use that album to now explain. I'm like, yo, like I wanna write music that punches people in the beanbag like this music, and they're just like, got it. And I'm like, yeah, you just zombie ZP was hard right out the gate, and literally, like it the Devil Wars product was everybody was like, This is gonna be the new sound, I'm here for this, and then they switched up on us, and I was like, totally.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

I was like, no, it was so good, but I still love you for what you were. Oh, yeah, I get I get I get the side eyes for still buying Motley Crue tickets. I don't care, I don't care. I I know I know it's not the same, I know that I'm going into the purchase understanding this. I don't care, I'm just there to enjoy the vibe.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

So at the time we're talking, I mean, obviously, big reason why you're going on tour and all, we're about a month into the release of Fear and Loathing. So, what was the biggest challenge involved in making this record?

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Four members quit while writing that record.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Okay, that's gonna change it up and call cause a lot of rewrites and extra time.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah, and a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

We tried to keep consistent see with the sound. Some things are a little bit off in the record. Agonvale was wrote in less than 24 hours, technically, vocal vocally.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

It always happens that way. Like some of the best is just written in like 10 minutes or something.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Like it was yeah, this whole record was just really it was a challenge for me to do 10 songs, and there was a lot of learned lessons that came with that, and I think I I learned a lot about myself throughout the record. Um just the amount the way I handle things and everything, and um, you know, now that we're looking at the record and I look back, it's kind of just insane to look at it and realize Lotus, our first EP, had you know 80,000 streams on it when Fear and Loathing started dropping, like single by single, and before the full length record came out, it was at 24 uh 240,000. Yeah, so we we tripled the amount of streams that we got, yeah, which was wild to think about. I just could not believe that I was like, I don't see the growth personally because like I'm I'm in the shit, I guess if you could say. But I'm like, we three X'd our numbers and like it's still growing. I'm like, okay, cool. Like that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

That's something to be proud of. Huge thing to be proud of, really. I mean, and that's probably the thing you're most proud of of the record, I would I would guess. And the fact that it's just done.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah. More so of the it's done because I love recording, and I also hate recording because I'm not very good at it. And I'm great vocally from what my producer says, and he's like, but you're timing. And I'm like, I know, I know, I know. And he's and then I heard Ollie Sykes talking about it. He's like, fuck my fucking timing. And I was like, Yep, I felt that. I felt every inch of that. And I was just like, God, dude, because I do that when I'm at home trying to like pre-press some vocals. And like, even with this record, I tried to do that, and I would just be like, fuck. Just throw my fucking headset. And I'm like, God damn it. And then my wife's like, you go to my I'm done. Maybe I'm gonna go smoke a joint before I fucking go back to that computer. I need to relax. Like, Jesus Christ. And I'm like, I just can't get this stupid line right, and it's driving me crazy. And I'm like, and the pattern doesn't work, and like it feels off, and then I like re-listen to it, and I'm like, yeah, I love that take. And then I do the next line, and I'm like, damn, I hate that take. And I'm it's just dude, it was an uphill battle. It was it was brutal, and I'm learning how to get better at it. I'm practicing as much as I can with everything, but man, that record was not easy.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

No, so for someone that doesn't know, when you're talking about timing, are you talking about just like staying on beat metronome clicks? What what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Okay, so timing isn't necessarily just on time, it's not literal, okay. It's it's like the ebb and flow of the way that the vocals punch in on certain points of the metronome, and if it comes, you know, like let's say in like a one, two, three, four.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Inflection and cadence, okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

If I were to go one, two, you the uh one is totally messed up, like you gotta redo that. You can't you gotta punch in right, and it has to be syncopated with everything and have to make sense and have to feel it has to feel very like normal, like it's it's so hard to explain, and I don't think there's ever really I've never had it explained to me good from any musician, even when I'm like, hey, like how do you work on timing? They're like, you just gotta do it, and I'm like, fucking no help at all. I'm like, god damn it, I thought you and they're like, I don't know, I just kind of came second nature, and I'm like, Well, it doesn't to me, I can do the thing, I just can't do that thing. Yeah, but it it was yeah, it's it's still a work in progress. I got it. I'm gonna get there eventually.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Well, this is I'm this is probably where just trusting your producer comes in, and like they'll tell you, and you trust them well enough, you just go with that. That's your guide.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Yeah, and sometimes I can hear it. Like, sometimes I think it's like a training your ear kind of thing. You have to really just train and like really just learn it, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna suck at this until I don't, and then once I unlock that, then I'm gonna be like really good, and I can just come in and punch in vocals, yeah, and not have to do 1700 takes.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yeah, uh, I can't wait to hear what's next, though. Like, particularly from August on. I know you you're gonna start to be pretty busy. So after that, once we get through that, what does the future look like for a moment's notice?

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Um well, currently we're writing our next record. Um, we wanted to kind of get a head start on it before we start touring and start getting out on the road and doing what we do. Um man, yeah, it's just there's a whole bunch to it. And uh we've got two tours booked right now. We had three studio sessions already. Um potentially scrapping the songs, reworking them. Um we were gonna try something, but didn't work. Try something else, but also didn't work. And now we're just trying to like figure that out. So trials, figuring it out.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

That's the essence of everything we've talked about today. That is a mic drop, Greg. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for giving us the insider look on what's going on and how to get through all the struggles as a musician. I appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Yeah, dude, I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Fear and loathing from a moment's notice is out now. Get your streams in. I promise it's gonna be worth it. And they're headed on tour very soon, too. So keep your eyes and ears peeled for more on that, for more from them as they go throughout the year. And there's definitely some more music on the way as well. Stay tuned on the socials. I'll give you all the links at the show notes and, of course, at valclinehands.com. Thanks for joining me for another week. We'll see you again on Wednesday. Bye.