Vigorously with Val Kleinhans
Welcome to Vigorously with Val Kleinhans—where music meets perspective, personality, and honest conversation with vigor.
Through interviews, solo reflections, and commentary on artist news, Val Kleinhans explores the psychology of creativity, the pressure of visibility, and what modern music culture is doing to artists and fans behind the scenes.
New episodes drop weekly with effort, energy, and enthusiasm—let’s chat vigorously.
Inquiries: val.kleinhans@gmail.com
Vigorously with Val Kleinhans
Milk St. on Finding Humor in Absurdity
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Depression and anxiety are not things to play with, but sometimes, finding humor in the absurd just might be the cure.
This episode with Jonah from Milk St. examines how to turn those tough moments into seriously funny lyrics that carry us through when nothing else will.
WATCH THE "JUST SO" VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m44iFJ6hI0A&list=RDm44iFJ6hI0A&start_radio=1
Get more Milk St.: https://www.instagram.com/milkstband/
Get more Val at https://valkleinhans.com/
I would say if I wasn't a musician, I would have been a psychologist or anthropologist. It's like my special interest. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to another edition of Vigorously with me about my hands hanging out in the Northeast this episode, which is something I've been wanting to do for a minute. I love just talking to everybody from all over the country with this podcast and really just using it as a biggest excuse to do so. Welcome, Jonah from Mill Street in the building. How are you, sir?
SPEAKER_00Good. What about you?
SPEAKER_03I'm good. I'm thrilled to be doing this, like I just said. And I love the kind of Americana, but like slightly punk vibe that we've got going on with this band. That's what I was picking up.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Yeah, it's very much like we've like toured a lot of folk punk bands. Um, but I think it is more like Americana the way like Neil Young is than it is folky. And it's more almost indie rocky than it is punky. So it's been like that's why we've been calling it hardcore soft rock because it kind of makes it so we can play with indie rock fans and folk punk fans. We fit on bills with everybody because they're not quite sure where we are.
SPEAKER_03I know. Well, but is that getting easier because of the Noah Khan of it all? Like he's repping your that's actually real.
SPEAKER_00I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I mean like 100%. And like even our record being called Vermont, because it came out, I want to say, like, right before his record came out, or like around the same time. Um, and he actually started playing in Maine a lot where we're from when we started playing in Vermont a lot for like the record and everything. Uh, but yeah, no, we get we get people are like, oh, you're from Vermont, and I'm like, no, it's just the record name that we're from Maine. Like, it gets confusing, but definitely he he helped.
SPEAKER_03Had to, had to be. At least he's getting the conversation about musically what's happening in that general area. So, what is your take on what he's putting out? Just out of curiosity.
SPEAKER_00My my girlfriend loves his music. Uh, I actually got to see him. I was not sold, to be honest. I was like, it's fine. It's kind of like I felt the same way about it that I do a lot of like just poppier music. I like some pop, I like a lot of. I mean, we we write like poppy hooks, you know what I mean? Like, I enjoy that stuff. Um, but my girlfriend, we went to see this festival that had like him and Modest Mouse and Green Day and Blind Melon, like all kinds of people that smashed. Yeah. And he like it was raining and he came out and he played a song about Maine, like right next to us out on like the walkway thing. And uh, I was like, oh, he's like a real artist, like he's like really doing this. He's not just like someone's not doing it for him, he's like the real deal, like he's a pro. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love that. I love that he kind of touches on mental health a little bit too. He kind of it in the Americana sense, he's painting landscapes with like emotion and tying it all together. Yeah, natural human emotion, he's using kind of like those landscapes from your neck of the woods to kind of talk about, like he's paying attention to it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like the dirt road thing and whatever he brings up a lot. Like he's I guess he's not he's like the modern baseball of Americana, he's like Vermont.
SPEAKER_03I know it's it's really cool to see. I mean, not totally the same, but you're doing something similar with your lyric content. Kind of the here's the key difference though. Y'all like to laugh about the absurd.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_03I can tell that with these lyrics, like I can tell that we are just able to laugh at these sort of things and kind of and observe these things and like acknowledge that they are in fact very real, but kind of hold fun at it a little bit. Am I getting somewhere?
SPEAKER_00100%. Yeah, I think that like, especially with the the the new record is um and I obviously it hasn't been announced, but it is a full record, and uh it's like it definitely started like the the first song I wrote for was just so and then definitely like I was trying to write stuff. We were still touring on Vermont stuff, and I was trying to write music, and uh everything that came out because I my process is usually I'll like write something, and I'll just kind of because I don't know notes and or I know some, but I don't know like music theory, like maybe my drummer Harry does. Um and I so I just kind of flay stuff that sounds good and I've been playing for a really long time. So I it just I stuff that kind of resonates with me, and eventually I land on like a riff, like the just so thing, and then I'll pace around my house for like an hour and just ramble, like whatever comes out comes out kind of thing. I think we try to keep it like genuine before anything. And I think that that's lent itself really well to it. Um, but everything that came out was like, I'm just I'm sad, I'm so sad, I'm just so sad. And like I was like, dude, do you know? Like to myself, I was like, can you think of anything else other than I'm sad or like girls or like whatever? You know what I mean? And and that's just and that's what kept coming out. And I was like, man, this is like um not there's no depth to it, it felt like. So then I just started really like I was literally like making fun of myself, like, I don't know why. It always has to be about sex or whatever. Um, so yeah, it was like, and then once I got that out of the way and I actually wrote a song about it, uh, everything else has on the rest of the record has an incredible amount of depth to the point where I feel like when we play it live, I feel like naked on stage almost. I feel like I I which which is good a good thing for sure, but um like we play this song first because it kind of exposes myself feeling at least live, and then I feel like okay, everyone else, no one's gonna feel embarrassed because I just embarrass myself saying that all I think about is sex and I'm sad all the time. You know what I mean? Like, like is the idea, like at least.
SPEAKER_03But on the on the real, anybody who has genuinely been depressed knows those lyrics. Yeah, like I don't know what to do with with what's happening right now. I just feel like I'm kind of in this pit and I don't understand why the hell I cannot get out of it. Like that that's what I'm getting. No, so let's I'd like to get a little bit deeper about what was going on and uh uh around this time when all of this is coming together. I understand it being hard to find the words to do something, literally hard to find the words to do something. But I have to wonder if maybe you dug into your past a little bit. I mean, I watched the just so video, it's it's entertaining, but I but I was like, there's a couple of moments that might be some hints that you may have pulled from personal experience here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that the that this the song as well as the record, it's like the most honest thing I've ever written. To the point where like I haven't showed my family because I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get calls. You know what I mean? Like I there's certain things where I'm like, I'm I'm uh uh and him and me are chillers, but like the the last record uh was about my dad and and growing up with him and kind of realizing that you know your parents are wrong, maybe, and like what it feels like to come to terms with that. And and he was like, he went off the rails a little bit for a while and was like um just uh chaos. It was just control, uncontrol, not even controlled, just like chaos constantly, and he knows that and he's come a long way. And the uh it's actually interesting to talk about now because the record I wrote when him and me were going through the thickest of thick of it. Like all of this stuff was h like I got a call that he got out of jail when I was in on the road, like he was in New York, and he's like, I was in New York, and he's like, Hey, can you come pick me up? And I was like, bro, I'm on tour right now. Like, yeah, so it was messy, and then he found uh God during this time period. He went from like a radical atheist. Um, we had a lot of common belief systems, um, and then now he's calm and collect and cool, but we completely fundamentally disagree on most things.
SPEAKER_01That's you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So it went from like angry all the time, but we agreed to to now we disagree. And uh like I'm getting Christian guilt in my 20s, you know what I mean? Like, like, and so that's record was kind of about that. Like it's it's really it feels like I'm writing about a whole different person, but it still is about that relationship kind of. And and it's more also more about it, it's some of them feel I feel yucky a little bit when I'm writing sometimes because I'm like, oh, am I like bashing people for things that they did in the past that that but it's like they still affected me, right? Whether they're better now or not.
SPEAKER_03It's your diary.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And and now, um, like especially the last song on the record is really, really sad, and it's about um kind of uh it puts a a pin in the rest of the record, which I think is kind of this whole process of realizing because the the record's supposed to be from a standpoint, uh a viewpoint of a kid uh writing in his room while his parents argue downstairs to kind of dissociate from the situation, and um, which I had a lot of growing up. And um the video was relatable.
SPEAKER_03Like that when it opens with that, when it opens with that, I'm like, oh, any kid in the experience is gonna get this. Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred. The fighting is just happening around you, and you're like, uh, uh, all right, I'm gonna leave that there and I'm gonna do me over here.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I'm so glad it came through clear because I'm like, I know what this means to me, and but I'm glad that it really got the point across. And I um and it sounds even on the record, like that intro sounds so much like uh what it actually sounded like, you know what I mean? So I'm like, oh my god. Um but no, the last record the last the record, the uh the last song kind of puts a pin in the themes of like realizing your the it starts off being like, oh my god, I don't want to be like my parents so I can hear them arguing, like whatever. And it kind of by the end, the the viewpoint is more like, oh my god, uh by the middle, I guess it's like I am them, and oh my god, this is scary. I hope I don't do all the same mistakes and stuff. And then by the end, you're like, there's a line at the in the very last song, and it goes, uh, like I don't like you, but I always love you, or something to that effect. Oh no, um, yeah, and it like like I can't remember the exact verbiage off the top of my head right now, but it's like um despite it all, I still love you, and and that's okay. And that's kind of to my to my you know, dad, I guess, or parents or whatever, but also like to myself, like you know, you you're allowed to make mistakes, and that's okay. Um so yeah, and I I think that with the it it that's definitely like the overall theme that and I was going having crazy dissociations around the time. Um and I loved Cowboys growing up, but that was like my like playing Cowboys with my friends was like one of my happy places.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I get it was there was something exotic about it because I I'm originally from Pittsburgh, so that part of the Oh nice.
SPEAKER_00I love Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_03It's it's gorgeous and beautiful, but there ain't no cowboys or Indians. It's just it's like it's it's it's factory, it's steel, it's you know, rivers and hills where you can't see the horizon the way you see it on the west. But coming here, that there's a little bit of that that's embraced, or at least they definitely embrace native culture. That's fair, yeah. A hundred percent much more here than they did in Pittsburgh, and I I think there's historical reasons for that. 100%. So, but my point is I understand being attracted to that. I understand thinking that that's exotic, and there's also something freeing about the whole concept. So if that's what you're looking for, of course you're gonna gravitate toward it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. You're kind of like, you're the badass of the story, you're the the and and also I think it's kind of cool that in hindsight, I kind of went through with the record different, like the the early stages of figuring out is like you're who you are is kind of bolstering that ego and being like, no, I'm a cowboy, I'm a badass, I'm a blah blah blah. And then eventually you realize how vulnerable you really are. And as the record progressed, I I actually I wrote all the songs unrelated to each other, thinking they wouldn't even actually fit together. Some of them I thought they'd be on different records. And then as I was putting them together, I actually wrote a whole essay. Um, I I had a music video idea for every song, and I actually put a through line for all of like a timeline for all of the songs and what point of grief, stages of grief the the kid Henry is at. And um, but like I was having dissociations, and and actually when we were recording the record, we went, we wanted to put some record scratches on the on this album, and one of the things we found is a Lone Ranger record. Uh and and we let it roll, and there's some like audio in the next single that's coming out from the actual vinyl of like from the Lone Ranger thing, it goes and it goes and sounded like he was alone or something like that. So I was like, Oh, it would be so cool to be like, oh, the dissociations the kid's having are like he's a cowboy, but then every time he actually gets to the point, kind of like in a dream, every time you go to like punch someone, you just fall flat. Like every time he goes to do the badass thing, he like cries, kind of is the idea.
SPEAKER_03It just got to the good part, no, like yeah, exactly. Why? I was just about to write off into the sunset. No, I understand that, but it sounds like your sunset is accepting that your life was what it was, exactly, and saying, Okay, oh, okay, I can leave that at okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it is what it is, right? I I found um after I wrote the record, actually, um, I had a surgery and I found a book that kind of changed my life, two books, and uh it got me meditating and looking at the world through some like Buddhist philosophy and different things, and Alan Watts I started listening to a lot, just stuff like that, and uh totally changed my life. I like I I feel content now. I mean, like I have rough, don't get me wrong, I'm going through some some stuff all the time, but like I I found I have like a toolbox now a little more than I did when I wrote the record, uh, where I feel content with a lot of things, even if it's not okay, it's fine. You know what I mean? Like and it's not apathy anymore, it's a little more just like, oh, it's like it's chill, man. Like it's it's all right.
SPEAKER_03What happened happened. We can keep it moving. I understand.
SPEAKER_00What are you gonna do? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03In your search to find the words to write all of this. I heard toolbox, does that mean therapy is somehow involved? And did that help?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I know, right? The therapist jargon, like on everything. That's what I've been through too.
SPEAKER_03I've been the only reason I've heard that is because I've been through it too. And I'm like, oh yeah, but for us, it was mindfulness and literally like yeah, kind of what you're talking about, a little bit of meditation, and that like they had us like literally holding an orange and going, okay, your only focus is that orange.
SPEAKER_00Oh, like what like the things you can taste and smell and touch and see kind of thing, like grounding exercises, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and for some as anxious as I was, and you know, dealing with uh all the things similar things, you know, to you that helped me realize okay, I can just leave something right where it's at and then leave everything else behind too. Or yeah, I can look at it for what it is. It taught me how to think it in terms of look at it for what it is. So it sounds like that's what was happening for you too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I actually there's like a a thing but way back in college, early college, I found there was I had to do like this like philosophy class, and there was a Buddhist section, and they talked about like when you're doing dishes, focusing on every dish and like uh the the catharticism, and I was like, I don't understand at the time I was like, I got better shit to do. Why would I you know? What am I doing? And then now um I get it. Like today, even I'm like, I was overwhelmed a little bit of work and I got anxious, and I'm then I was like, I'm gonna go for a walk. And and I focused, I sat down and I would just focus on this bumblebee for like an hour. I ended up just literally sitting there watching this bumblebee, and I was like, oh, this is what it is. You know what I mean? Um but I think uh like with therapy, I I always reacted negatively to like therapists where they just like let you talk and then someday they drop some big truth bomb on you. You know what I mean? And also there's like a lot of um studies that I've been like looking into that or reading. Uh I would say if I wasn't a musician, I would have been a psychologist or anthropologist. Like I don't know. It's interesting. It's like my special interest, yeah, 100%. And it um uh they there's studies that like talking about things are just making you reliving them, like the venting idea is making you reliving all these experiences. So there's I did uh eventually I landed on this therapist just randomly that was um the type of therapy is called IFS, internal family systems. And that, oh my god, it like completely changed my life. It was invented around like the 60s or 70s, and the idea is that uh instead of it that that we're all parts, like we all have all these parts in us. Um, and like maybe I have one that was created when my dad used to be really volatile that wants to um like fit wants to fix things and became really good at gauging if someone's mood slightly shifts. But because of that, I feel a lot of guilt and shame when someone has a negative mood shift. I think maybe it's my fault. And then once that kid in me, and they make you look closer around you, like, what does it look like? Is it blue? Is it green? Does it look like a person? Does it like you literally put a name and a thing to the part? And then the second you identify it, I swear to God, it feels like that anxiety, whatever anxiety that part's causing, shifts because now it's been acknowledged instead of smothered, and now you're showing it compassion and love. And the second you do that, it becomes movable, A, and then B, it no longer has to shout over the noise of you trying to smother it. And then like the more you smother these little parts, the more they're like, look at me, look at me, look at me, is the idea at least. Yeah, and I'm missing it. Yeah, and I'm like super, super visual. I need analogies for like everything, so like that's helped me a lot. Um, and I even feel like I built relationships with these different parts of myself, uh, and become closer to who I actually am because all these parts have their own spots in me, as opposed to like being piled on top of each other, all like arguing with each other for for noise. Kind of think of it like a bunch of little kids in a play pen, and you're like trying to wrangle them all all the time. And if you if you yeah, that's how they describe it. It's like incredible. It changed, and if they use mindfulness and meditation and whatever works best for you kind of thing, but like it's it's more about getting to the root of a problem. Like you may talk about a problem a little, and then they'll be like, that's a trailhead. I think there's a part that seems to want this, this, this, and this. Where is that in you? Is it in your arms? Is it in your you identified in your body? It's like super cool. It's it blew my mind.
SPEAKER_03Okay, there's gotta be a book about this or something. 100%.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There's a guy, um, I can't remember his name, but he um was friends with a guy who actually like started AA and invented that whole system. Um, but he was um he was also friends with Alan Watts, he meditated, all these things, but he was just a therapist, like a licensed psychologist for many years. Um, I just stumbled upon a therapist, the only one that was in my neighborhood at the time, and she was like, I am an IFS therapist, is that okay? And I was like, I don't know what that means. I really need help, sure. And then it like changed my life. It completely, I won't do a therapy, I won't go to a therapist that is not IFS at this point. L IC. Yeah, okay. It's it's game changer, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_03Alan Watts. That that's the guy's name.
SPEAKER_00Uh Alan Watts, no, I can't recall the guy's name that invented it. Um, but Alan Watts is just this um Zen Buddhist philosopher uh from like the 60s, 70s, who does uh tons of amazing lectures on YouTube. Um when I'm on tour when I'm alone, I literally just like listen to lectures all the time. That's about the bus. That's about the bus, not the or in the van, not GTA 6, not like Mobile Combat, that it's it's Alan, and I actually my my van mates usually are like, oh my god, every time I put it on, so I have to put airplugs in while I listen to music. It just crowns me. I just feel like I'm like rediscovering something about myself every day through it. And it's the only way that I found like peace was like is through all these like things that like tools, you know.
SPEAKER_03I can see using it in a productive way too. Like if you're coming up with images, if you're coming, if you're literally coming up with colors, words, whatever while you're going through the ISS process, that's gotta help with your writing.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. No, I actually it's funny because when I started meditating, I was worried. I was like, man, I'm like clearing my brain. I need the mess to like write about or whatever, you know, or like or even the my process was just spewing stuff until something came out good. And I was like, I don't have all that go, go, go, because I'm not anxious. Um, and before it was like uh the anxiety was what was pushing all these words out, you know. Um but now it's it's a little um not even calculated, but I'll find a like I'll meditate or whatever, and I'll go for like today. I went for I woke last night I had this idea for a song in my head, uh I'm really excited about actually. And I like wrote down the lyrics and I was like, I can't forget the melody. I woke up, I remembered the melody, I was making coffee, so I kind of played the guitar part I had in my head, and I actually learned a few new chords in a different tuning than I'm used to, and I was like, oh, this is like really, really exciting and cool. It's like fresh feeling. And then I didn't really, and then instead of like stressing about, oh my god, I have to finish it. What are this drum part? What's the bass part? Like freaking out like I usually do, I was like, I'm just gonna go for a walk. And and I did some computer work and went for a walk. And actually, on my walk, I heard a melody in my head, and I was like, oh, what is that? And then I heard two melodies that would that were interacting with each other, and then I was like, oh my god, that actually is in the same key and fits into the songs, the song I was writing earlier. Like I finished the song by not worrying about it, just going about my day. It just came to me, you know what I mean? And before it was like a couple that would have been like a month-long process for a very long time.
SPEAKER_03See, okay, I I've heard other creatives talk about this, whether they're a musician, you know, whatever it is that they do, if they're in a creative space, some of them do struggle with their mental health, and then they get worried about taking care of their mental health because they think the same way that you thought, the way you just brought up. Like, oh, is this gonna, you know, at all impact my output and and what I do? Kanye's been the one that's been pretty vocal about that, especially. Like he was the one that was like really, really worried about that. I I I want the man to focus on himself too. I do. I want the To take a beat for for himself and like you know and take care of Northy. Take care of Northwest. North is in love. But we but we I what I found interesting is that you know he seemed to, at least in that period, totally reject it. You did not, and you actually kind of found that it made space for better organization of those thoughts. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah, because I'm I'm it's like I have different modes now. It's less of like all the time chaos, and then these these I'm waiting for this lucky lightning strike to break through the noise. Uh now I'm like, okay, I'm I'm creating space right now for uh because I'm gentler with myself. I'm like I'm creating space for the creative part of me or whatever. You know what I mean? Or if I'm like, like I'll because I was even on my computer when I had this stuff, some of this stuff pop into my head, and I was like, I could just keep doing what I'm doing. I'm like, no, I deserve that part of me that really craves this artistic expression, deserves me to make some time for him. Like it is kind of how I think about it. And that's like, yeah, I mean, Cobain, even when he met Courtney Love, I mean, whatever, that ended however it ended. But like yeah, exactly. But like he uh had I remember there was an interview because he was like my hero growing up. I had like all of his journals and I watched interviews incessantly. I was like studying, like what is the track? How do you do this? How do you write music? How do you get to this point? And like um, hung on is every word. And there was like an interview where he was like, uh, you know, I'm in love now. And he was kind of half joking, he's like, I'm in love now, so like, you know, the records might suck. Like he was like, the angst might be gone or whatever. And uh, like this very like Cameron Winters is the only person alive like doing stuff now that I could compare to that. But like it's one of those things where, but then right after that, he wrote Olive in Utero. You know what I mean? Like that's a one of my favorite records of all time. Yeah. So like uh I don't think it ruins anything. I think the I still reserve space. I mean, I even find, like I said, like when I'm writing now, things will just come up. They'll like uh um maybe they'll be slightly unresolved, or maybe there'll be a uh lesson in what's coming up from something in the past that is like, oh, that's right, it's gonna be okay. Because I went through this before, I just forgot. You know what I mean? Like when I'm writing these things, like things about my death, even with like past loves or whatever it is, it might, and I'm like, whoa, why am I thinking why am I why is my brain making space for these things? But it's not, it's just like, oh, you're maybe going through something similar now. You have these anxieties, this is how you dealt with it before. Um, so it's like a lot of past tense writing in the future in the in the present tense now, I think, is the only difference.
SPEAKER_03Ah, I got it. Okay. So when you're watching something like Montage of Hackers, like when you're seeing like Kurt and all the drawings and the journals and all of that, you're saying that guy, he gets it, or at least he's yeah, he might possibly understand what's actually going on in my yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And I I see some like, and I think everyone sees parallels in their heroes, but I really him and like Shannon Hoon from Blind Melon.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Shannon's got a story, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, like those are like my my like uh artistic idols, I think. But it if there was like a pantheon, you know, they're at the top. And uh something about them, I'm like, I I do get it. Like I get, and it's not just like I get the angst, I get the whatever. I'm like, I I know a little bit where you're coming from, bro. Um and I in a in a way where I'm like I really feel for them. There's that great documentary of Shannon's like VHS footage that he took or whatever. Uh yeah, that's uh, and I was like, man, I like I know this guy, you know, because he's in me kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03It's hard to watch those moments, but it's also the thing that does help us connect, like as we've been talking about. What do you think your fans connect with when when it comes to you and what you're doing?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I don't know. That's a good question. Um I was thinking about this earlier. Uh um that the songs that people ask us to play, like when someone comes to the show.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like when you're live, what what vibes?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like people come to the show and the songs that I get asked to play, I always, every time I'm like, oh wow, I haven't even thought about that song in a long time. I didn't know you guys liked that one. You know what I mean? Is how is the feeling. So I think I know sometimes what people are connecting with, with the like the uh messiness or the um, you know, like I think like like uh like I think uh what I connect with a lot is less of when people just say how they're feeling and more and not even like using analogies to make a clearer-cut comparison. I connect more like when like like Cameron Winters is a great example when he's like I'm a sailor in a big green boat or whatever. Like I know what he's saying, but but there's not a clear um there's not a clear any evidence to support that claim. Like I could be like, oh, he's saying this, this, this, and this, or or I think some artists maybe go into writing thinking, oh, I'm going to make this as uh relatable to the most amount of people possible by saying like, oh, those eyes instead of like, oh, your blue eyes, or something like that, right? And and I think like um, I think when you just kind of say whatever comes out, like whatever you just like I say, I kind of ramble and things will just pop into my head. And when you just like I'll get a bead and then I'll just go go. Once I get like uh like this morning, the song is like he's a really big man in a really small car, and then I just like let myself and a whole song came out. And I and I wasn't I couldn't even tell you what it was about now, probably, but in a in a month or maybe after a month after we record it, I'll be like, oh my god, this is what I was thinking and going through at the time. And and that happens a lot. And I think that maybe people connect with that like um that rawness. I think that like the I think that that was all what I always went for above being talented as a musician movie, but being anything, I wanted to be genuine and raw, and I didn't want to be pushing or trying too hard. I wanted to do this like woo-way like flip thing. And I think that I've accomplished that with this new record for sure.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Well, I was gonna ask about this too, because the sarcasm that's obvious, the the appreciation for the absurd that comes through, like in today's world, is this something that is sometimes misunderstood when it comes to your music?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's actually the only thing I I typically when when we're writing and recording and at the studio and all that stuff, I don't I I make a point to not be like, well, what would the audience think or anything like that? But there were many times where I was like, ooh, I hope this doesn't get taken the wrong way. Uh and and I I went to Harry Harry's one of my best friends ever. He's now playing lead guitar, actually. Um, but he was the drummer for a long time. He got came into the band as a lead guitarist, became the drummer. We're he's multi-instrumental, so best friends. Um, he's always part of the project. We have a different like live touring band now a little bit, but he still is very much part of the project. And he was like, bro, uh who A, who cares? But B, I think there's um people understand nuance. And I'm like, I don't know if people understand nuance anymore as much, maybe. Like, I don't know if I'm able to um gosh, like I can't really think of a great example other than like really obtruse examples like like Bukowski or Karouak or something, but like I don't think there's like um I mean you've been trying to like like even though like I don't know why it always has to be about sex thing, I was worried a little bit. I was like, man, I hope people aren't just thinking oh this is just like a like a horny song or something. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Like I was like they're not taking it too literally, yeah. Or like there's even like um or they're missing the critical thinking and context clues involved.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah, exactly, exactly. And and I think I'm trying to think of an example on the record. There's a c there's a few for sure. Um and I'm just like, man, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to um like put anyone down or be like or be like a fucked up person. You know what I mean? Because none of it's ever like, hey, if I'm writing about it, it's probably because I like uh have come to terms with it and I'm almost like seeing how like silly I was. But Julie Snail Trail's a song that's out that actually I worried about that a lot uh when it came out, and but that whole because it's like I'm talking about this like uh hip, like fake hippie girl in college that led me on, basically. It's like and I was like, she's got all those bumper stickers to let you know that she smokes grass. Like it's almost like I'm a summer, but then like but it through that, but then I got a little older and I started reading Kerouac, and I'm like, man, and I listen to Grateful Dead and different things, and I'm like, people probably look out at look at me and they're like, oh, look at him and his Birkin stocks, how much do you think he paid for them or something? You know what I mean? Like, I smell like patchouli all the time. Like, people are probably like, oh, he's like a fake hippie, he's not even like doing a jam band thing or whatever it is. I don't think of it like this or that, and she probably didn't either, but at the time I was just frustrated. So then, like, the first half of the song is feels a little on the nose. Second half is I think it's obvious that I'm mocking myself, and I'm like, oh yeah, but I'm like, hey, look at this like uh fake ass person, and then it's like, oh, but me too. You know what I mean? Like I get it, and I and I hope that came through. Um, but sometimes I'm like, who knows? You know, people might hear that and be like, I'm saying, like, you're a patchouli snail trail, saying like you led me on, and I'm like, man, this could be taken really wrong. If but whatever, right? Like, I mean, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_03You know, well, at some point you you have to decide, look, this is this is us, this is us. I'm gonna put it out as us. You're gonna like it or not. And right. It's gonna be kind of what it is. Since we're on the subject of clothes, though, I I need to ask about the frog BB. Please, what is the lore behind the frog beanie?
SPEAKER_00I literally just have curly, curly hair, and I hate and it and it I have these things where they come in my face and I get super like here and I get super overstimulated, so it literally just keeps my hair out of my face. And bandanas I cannot figure out how to put on fast, so I can just like pop this on, and it just keeps my hair out. Uh, but I found it, I moved here uh with my partner, um, and I found in college a friend who used to help when he first first started the band under a different name and everything. She, her name was Caitlin, she'd help us run the merch table or like whatever we needed, and she would crochet just in her free time. And she made me and gave our bases at the time um a few other people these hats. And I totally and I love frogs. And that was our first merch design was frogs, and I totally forgot about it. And then I found it and I was like, oh, that's actually really sick. Uh and it's like crochet, so it's cool in the summer, too, so I can just like keep my hair out of my face, like no biggie. Okay. Um, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03That makes complete sense. Well why frog? Why frogs? Are they your favorite animal?
SPEAKER_00I'm just uh on the spectrum, probably. Like, I'm just I just really like frogs. No, for real.
SPEAKER_03Because you're an animal guy, because I've seen your chihuahua on the city.
SPEAKER_00I do have a chihuahua. I actually never had pets growing up, but my mom, my mom was definitely allergic to anything with hair. And my girlfriend had this chihuahua already when I moved in.
SPEAKER_03And the dog has become your dog too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And I love her so much, and I always wanted a dog. But growing up, I couldn't have anything, so I would sneak in turtles and frogs and stuff and put them in tanks. And I added at one point I had a 150-gallon tank with a turtle, a North American mud turtle named Clarence in it. And my mom had no idea for like seven months. No clue. Yeah. I would pick it up and carry that thing down. I would empty the water and carry it downstairs to the kitchen. I looked my room's like above in the attic. And when she was at work during the summer, and I would clean it all out and then bring it back up before she got home from work. And then one day I was I I left for a long trip. I drove across country when I was like 16.
SPEAKER_01Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_00And uh, when I did that, I was like, Man, I gotta, I guess I gotta rip my turtle. So I brought it back, I brought it to the local pet store. I was like, Hey, can you take him in? And uh I came downstairs with the turtle and the tank, and she's like, What the fuck is all this stuff? And I was like, It's my turtle, but I'm getting rid of him, so it doesn't matter. You can't even get mad, he's not in the house. You can't be like, but did the pet shop take Clarence?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we we got a home for Clarence, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the pet shop took him right back in and everything. Um, but yeah, that was my longest pet. But I would have like I just loved I caught frogs growing up because I couldn't really have pets, and I'd keep them in tanks until they whatever, and I let them back out. And yeah, I used to do stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03I I would try to be friends with squirrels or whatever, and like yeah, even you know, even our front yard. We just had a apparently we just had a nest of bunnies that I found in our front garden the other day, and I was like, You guys have been here for about three weeks already, they look like about that big, and I was like, Why here? Like, what are you doing? There's a million spots because they're very I'm pretty close to a main road, is what I'm getting at. And I'm like, Oh, whoa, bro, bro, why?
SPEAKER_00That's crazy that's sketchy.
SPEAKER_03That's they I don't know, they were like this yard, so I was like, Okay, I'll let you have it.
SPEAKER_00Once they pick a spot, that's it.
SPEAKER_03They do, they do, and they they were there for this. Was earlier like last month, so they were there for about like three and a half weeks, and then they dipped. And I was like, Oh, they left. They dipped a hunger down on their own. On their own. So I I got mom, because I I have a ring camera too, so I was kind of like sparkling on them. This was my real housewives. I was watching mom. I was watching mom come like at like around 10 o'clock at night. It was like clockwork, she would come, and I could see them all scurry out, nurse, and then she'd come back the next night, and the next night, and the next night, and she did this. And again, like three and a half, four weeks later, they all dipped.
SPEAKER_00Whoa, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_03I know. I was like, What shout out to her? She's getting her Beyonce on, being in the cared for.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. That's great. That I love rabbits. My dad has uh, and my sister um has a bunch of rabbits or had, and when he he wouldn't care me talking about it, when he went to jail, he panicked and flipped the thing and like let him out. He was like, I don't I can't feed them, I don't want to be trapped in a cage. Okay, like I don't want to be trapped in a cage kind of thing. You know what I mean? Well, I'm gonna know how long I'm gonna be gone for. And uh he flipped the thing open and let him out, and then when he came home, he was like, God, I hope they're okay. And he had like 800 rabbits running around his yard. They like bred and they burrowed under his house, and like there are just and they're still when I pull up to that house, there's like a billion rabbits everywhere. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03That's it, they just make their home. I freaking love that. Well, so animals are obviously a theme, but was it an intentional theme when it came to milk streak? Like, did you was it totally random?
SPEAKER_00Okay, no, it was completely most things, honestly, are just like I I have a thing that I like and I'm and I just and I do it, and then and then I just post so much that I'm just I happen to be wearing it, and then it becomes branding or something. You know what I like for a while. I always had a sprout on my hat because I just liked it. I got like someone gifted it to me, and I and I was like, that's so sweet. Like, make sure you keep it on the bill of your cap. Um, and I'll see you at some point. Uh we were like in Long Island, I can't even remember, we were on tour, and uh I I just had them on my hat forever. Then I started bringing people started asking me where I got it, so I started bringing like packages of sprouts to shows and giving them out when people bought merch and stuff like that, and it just became a thing. And then and then I found this, and then now that's a thing, you know.
SPEAKER_03Anything becomes branding anymore, I swear. Like it whether you whether you intend to it, you know, or or intend for it to be or not. Does that part does that part of it, that part of being a musician, which is more prevalent now than it ever has been, does that ever spook you a little bit?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think like um I think it's it's nice because there's two parts to it. Like, I do think it's a cool thing because then I don't have to like push for this, like, I don't have to think about branding as much or something. Like, I don't have to think about like what's our logo. Like I want a good logo and I want a good design. Um so I I go to local, you know, like the artist that made the frog design um actually was totally unrelated to this hat. I just was like, hey, I want like a frog version and a dog version of these cowboy guys. Um and the dog version we ended up rolling, we didn't roll with, but um, there's a song called God's Dog on the Record, so I was like, that would be cool. Um and I want there to be like these dissociative animal versions of this kid or whatever. And uh we went to the artist who did all of Alex G's like Southern Sky era stuff, and uh Chubby Pumpers is his name on Instagram, and I have loved their art for a long time now, so I was like, oh my god, please. Um, but yeah, it just happened to do it. I was like, maybe a frog, and they they did that, and then I found this like right after, and I was like, oh, that's kind of like perfect. And now, like in new in Maine, we'll get recognized like out and about, like, oh, Jonah from Milk Street. But down in New Hampshire, we've done just enough stuff, and I've posted just enough where people are like, oh, hey, you're that guy. I've I've had people like at my job, uh like like out just out in public, be like, oh, you're that guy. I recognize you because the frog hat. And I'm like, oh, that's like easy. I don't have to be like at every show, I'm Jonah, we're Milk Street, I'm Jonah, we're Milk Street. I can just wear the hat, and people are like, oh my god, frog hat guy, that's Milk Street or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Like I know that guy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I'm fine, I'm chill with that. Like, I would way rather it be like a passive thing that I just happen to wear all the time every day. Like I wear this everywhere if I'm not at like work at my day job. I'm wearing it 20 because it keeps my hair out of my face. And and uh it's helped. Like we'll even get to shows and venues and be like, oh, you're the band, here, come on in, like that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03They know see, yeah, that is that is pretty helpful. Because that that's yeah, it's pretty weird if they're like, Are you the band? You should look like you're in a band.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and there was a time period where I was like um getting anxious. You know, I wanted to, I I always want I want I want more people to hear the most people amount uh possible to hear our music, right? Like I want that's the goal in the end, is like people to check it out. So like there was a period when I first started to become conscious that that was like a big part of the goal. Um, or at least I would that there were new steps that would have to be new and big and hard. Yeah, like to have to get there. Um I was like, I became super dysphoric in a way. I was of like, oh, who am I compared to who this thing of myself is that I'm having to like push and promote and like post about? Like, so then I just started doing uh like just passive, like whatever videos we were taking on tour already, because we thought they were funny. I would post those. And then I started just taking videos of me playing guitar or playing the songs. I'm like, I guess this is what people are here for mostly, is like our music, right? So uh and then and then with the frog hat, it just like connected. It was like this like thing, and we've gotten more traction now than ever because of all of those things, I think.
SPEAKER_03Because it's it's fun, it's just fun. They stopped trying. That's the word fun is the word, but take me back to the moment when you did fall in love with music.
SPEAKER_00Whoa. Uh um, this sounds like cliche and whatever, but I don't remember a time when I like wasn't, I guess. Um my dad, my earlier memories was like going to fish shows with my dad, and he would of course he did Northeast. He yeah, he he he I my step, uh well, his girlfriend at the time and my stepsister, she did henna tattoos and he sold food, I guess. And uh we would get pulled around in like a blue wagon all day by whoever wasn't working or like their friends. Um and that happened pretty often. And he would always do this thing in the car where he'd be like, What band is this? What band is that? So then I was like, Oh, I gotta figure out what band is what band is playing, you know, and and then um he would play, he would just like wail in his electric guitar, constantly head drums in the house. He just always had music around, and he wanted more than anything to be in a band growing up, so he had like tons of records. Uh he would we like had bands that like like he we would listen to Sublime as one of the first bands I Sublime Beastie Boys and Jack Johnson. Those are the first bands I liked.
SPEAKER_03Uh that's kind of the Milk Street blueprint. I guess.
SPEAKER_00And I remember he would drive and I would he would always listen to all his music on like full blast, and I would um look through the inserts of all the CDs that we would be listening to, and I'd read the lyrics as they were going, and I was really fascinated. This was like maybe four or five, five years old, probably. And I was like really fascinated with how like the lyrics flowed together, and why does I remember thinking all the time, like, why does the line stop there and then restart here? Like, why is it not one big thing? Just like weird little things. And then I get at one point, my my mom always tells this story. I was like in the backseat and I was like, I interrupted her and was like, Do you hear how the drums did that right there? That was interest, like cool and interesting, and I was like, Six. Um, and it was Green Day, and then I like from there fell in the A green day, and I was like, This is my and then I started being like, Dad, what what band is this, bro? Like, uh, because I had all these obscure punk like Joyce Manor or the Friend Bottoms or whatever that I liked, and um, but yeah, I I don't know. I guess like driving to him playing guitar and then driving to uh like camp in the summers to swim and listening to Sublime, I guess, and like in like Beastie Boys and then playing with Legos in my room listening to Beastie Boys Laces and Still when I was like five. And then and yeah, but then like I loved it. I I actually when I started learning guitar, I hated it because I took lessons and it hurt, and I just my mom was like, You have to do something extracurricular, and I didn't, I was like seven, and I did not enjoy it. And then I he was like, Well, what do you like? And I was like, I like Green Day, and I like Tenacious D. And he was like, Well, if you don't tell your mom and you bring in your CDs, I'll teach you Green Day and Tenacious D songs. And he taught me uh Tribute by Tenacious D, and the first song I ever learned was Good Ridd's Time of Your Life by Green Day, because it's super easy, G E C D. And those are the you know main chords for a lot of songs, and and then I was actually I took did it for a little longer and I was like, I don't need you anymore. I think I can figure this out. And I went off yeah, and I and I went off and I stopped doing lessons and I started doing it on my own. But that I think like Green Day and finding Green Day, and I found Enema of the State in like middle school by Blink, like I was like 12. Because I kind of I didn't start writing music, but the second I got a it came with it, the Enema of the State company came with this like bootleg DVD documentary thing for Blink 182. And I remember laying in bed and it was like the middle of summer, and and I was like, oh, that's what I want to do with my life. I want bands so that I don't have to grow up was like the idea. I was like, they're eating avocado, they're they were making guacamole for a party in their toilet bowl of their apartment, and I was like, that's what I want to do. So I was like, I'm gonna be in a van. Yeah, I was like, that's it. And then and then from there, you know, now I'm here.
SPEAKER_03So what so your dad had all the makings of the passion and wanting to be a musician? Why didn't it happen?
SPEAKER_00Uh we we've talked about it. We're like I said, we're chill, and he wouldn't I've said these things to him as well. Like he just didn't he made excuses for every all the reasons why he couldn't do things, and he would say that if you were here right now. He made excuses for why he couldn't do anything, or or if he got fi if he got fired, he said he quit, you know, like that kind of thing. Like it was just like every everything was ever someone else's fault, and there was always a bad guy, and and I actually that was one of the things on the record that I kind of started to see myself do. I was like, ooh, I gotta like check that. I gotta like not always need someone to complain about or a bad guy or like this or that. It just makes you a negative person, you know. Um, and I think that like that judginess or something is something that I learned for a little bit, but um but but yeah, like he he's just now at like 52 years old getting over figuring these things out, you know what I mean in the last few years. And I and I think that's really what it was. And he had moved to Indiana for a minute, but then came right back home, you know, like and he had a reason. And you know, when he asked him back then about about it, he's like, Well, yeah, I had to come back for my family because they couldn't handle themselves or whatever, like talking about his sisters and brothers, and it's like, no, you came back because you got freaked out or whatever, you know, like whatever it was, you know, there's probably something a little deeper there. And um, but he's I he used to he used to drink pretty heavy, but he would write a lot when he did. And I recently he gave me all of his books because he's religious now and doesn't read any of his books, I guess. And um, so he g anyways, he gave me all this stuff, and some of them had like um bookmarks of notes that he had written, like poem poems that he wrote, and I don't think he realized they were in there.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00They're like really good, like really, really, really good.
SPEAKER_03And they inspired you.
SPEAKER_00Um now, I guess I just just got them, like in the last couple weeks, really, or the last month.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00And I've been I've been reading some of them as I flip through the books. I'm like, oh, there's like another one. Um, and they're like, you know, chicken scratch, but they're like they're pretty good. Um, definitely written by like a drunken 35-year-old or whatever, but like, but like really decent, and and I enjoy reading them. I actually haven't told him that yet, but um, yeah, like they're they're really good. I I think they're sick, and I think you had a lot of potential and a lot of inspiration and tons and tons and tons of creativity. Um, and I think that he still uses it. It's just now, now it's he's just a different person, and and not in a good or bad way, just totally different, you know. I'm religious, he's Christian, he's religious and goes to church and got rid of all of his records and books, and he's chosen a new life, you know, and and that's cool. I'm happy for him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you're watching that and going, okay, this is what happened in that situation, so I need to do X, Y, and Z to be where I want to be, and you know, take all that, learn from it to do what I want to do for my own situation. And I'm picking up that you're you're big on energy. I'm picking that up. So, what kind of energy do you want people to walk away with when they listen to your music?
SPEAKER_00Whoa, these are good questions. Um, I I really all in all I want people to feel heard, I want people to feel seen and heard. Um because there were some bands that I would literally like sit on the side of my bed and listen to, and I was like, whoa, this is like I'd almost like cry because I'm like, this is what I'm thinking. I just haven't been able to put it into words. And then I remember I was maybe like 15, no, like 14. I had to be 13, maybe even. And I found the front bottoms, and I was like, I need to, I want to do for other people what they're doing for me right now. And I was just like, oh, it just looked like a gut punch lyrically at the time. And I was like, this is exactly what I'm going through. And I didn't really, I thought it was really abnormal, even stuff with my dad or like relationships. I thought it was really abnormal. And I was like, no, he this is definitely there's no way, and that's actually a band that's weird. I've never really talked about this because it sounds like superstitious, but like the front bottoms, every record they've come out with, it has been very thematically on the nose about what I'm going through at that point in my life. Down to the down to the point, no, get this, where when I was going through a pretty bad breakup and a bunch of other shit, they came up with a record called Teresa, and the person that I was going through that was named was Teresa. And I was like, what the fuck is going on, dude? Yeah, I know. Isn't that crazy? I was like, whoa. So crazy.
SPEAKER_03Talk about parasocial relationship. My god.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Brian Sella is listening through your smartphone.
SPEAKER_03That's what I was saying. They they sometimes I wonder, like for real. Sometimes I wonder. I'm like, I I was like, I was just talking about getting a guest bedroom set. Why am I now seeing advanced when I didn't even look it up yet? Didn't even look it up, but I was having a conversation with someone about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's real. I think that they do. I think there are like, yeah, for sure, 100%. At this point, it's so good.
SPEAKER_03I it's I can't wait for everything that's coming from you because I I feel that there's some good energy being put into this. Good grief on the way. Is there anything else we need to talk about that we might have missed?
SPEAKER_00Man, I don't I don't really know. We have we have a few more singles. We're actually deciding if we how many singles we want to put out. We're deciding on how many music videos we want to do, stuff like that right now. But we have music videos and singles in the pipeline ready to go. Um, and uh yeah, tons of new music coming out really soon. We're going out, we're leaving for tour this week with a band called Yawn Mower from New Jersey. That's really, really sick and worth checking out. Um planning some tours for the fall, maybe even like our first West Coast tour potentially. Okay. Something big coming. Um, but yeah, we have a lot of stuff. Instagram's best place to find us, uh, Milk ST Band on all those things.
SPEAKER_03I can't wait for it all. Jonah, thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you so much. It's super nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_02The new single, Just O from Milk Street, is out now. They're on tour right now, new album on the way. So stay tuned to get all the latest and greatest information from them on social media. I will give you the links to do so in the show notes and of course at valpinehands.com, where you can get a recap of every episode that how vigorously that has a guest. Really, just go there in case you missed any of it. Yeah, feel free to follow up. We'll see you next time.