DØUBLE IDENTITY Discuss Love, Pain, and Delulu Solutions

Is delulu the solulu? If you ask Døuble Identity, the answer just might be yes! In life, and creativity! 

Val chats with twins Arden and Courtney about their new single "Kiss Me Again" and how it came to be, why boys make for good subject matter as artists, show safety, and the frustrations that come with navigating the world as a young adult. 

Get more Døuble Identity: https://www.instagram.com/doubleidentityband/

STREAM "KISS ME AGAIN" : https://open.spotify.com/artist/6pdssHgpeHiTKzHlmGvGVW?si=S0QIZZDSRw6REbnCQb8gaA

Get more Val at https://valkleinhans.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm getting better at it, I think. And in this situation, I was better, believe it or not. But I'm the kind of person that has to like run something into the ground. Like if I if I know that something isn't gonna work out, like I see that writing on the wall, I'm like, kind of have to see like it has to, I can't just know that intuitively. I like they I they have to say something or or do something for me to be like, there it is, like I was right, and now I can exit.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

We shouldn't be living living with vigorously.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Welcome to another edition of Vigorously with me, Val Kleinhands. We are C and Double today with double identity in the building. How many times have you heard that joke? Was that Courtney? It's probably been too long.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

No, I don't know if anyone's done that. You might be the first one. Really?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Okay, well, you have names that and they are Courtney and Arden. We want to we want to put that out there too. You are humans, but you're here because you're artists and you're doing cool things with double identity. So welcome. How are you? Good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Um, I thought she was gonna talk. Sorry, we're doing good, we're excited to be here. And you're I'm Arden, and that's Courtney for people that are that don't know. Listening audio only, it doesn't matter. Yeah, good luck if you're just listening audio only because you're not gonna know. We answer the phone at home and people think they're talking, like our family thinks they're talking to the other person.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Oh, okay. So you really are twins, like the Instagram bio is not just a joke.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, okay, because yeah, so I'm pre-curks that boys are stupid. Oh. Why why wait, why is this about boys? Because they're usually the ones that ask, like, if not even if we're twins, like if we're siblings, or like if we know each other. Well, no, that's usually then in person followed by like, oh, if I like hit one of you, will the other one feel it? I've never I don't think I've ever had a girl ask me that. No, a couple boys. Where are they even coming up with it? I'm gonna start swinging. There must be like a handbook because it's not that original, you know what I'm saying? Like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I mean, I have heard about twin connections, so just like you anticipate what the other one's gonna say or yeah, with like with anyone in that you spend an egregious amount of time. Exactly. So I that's a great question for you. So as twins, you can speak to that. Is there any truth to those myths at all?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

I'm gonna say yeah. I'm gonna say yeah. I'm gonna make stuff up. Um I mean, to an extent, like it there are weird times where like I'll start like humming a song that was in my head, and then she'll be like, like, what the heck? Like, that was in my head too. Like it's weird stuff like that. But I mean, it's not like we're telepathic or anything. That would be so cool. That would be you probably wish. Although also bad. I feel like do you are you ever out in public and you're like, can people read my mind? And then yeah, Twilight kind of like fried my brain on that. That was like that's not possible, yeah. Unless I think Twilight was very formative.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

For Twilight Twilight is listen, that is culture. That is required viewing for for anybody entering high school to like know how to navigate the vampire.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Is your high school experience gonna be like this? Also, people get so pressed about oh well, they just like sparkle in the sun. That's cool. Would you rather have them burn up in the sun? I'd have I I want both. I want the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I want to learn. You know what? I think you should get a choice. If you're evil, you burn and then it's ordered up like Burger King, baby. Have it your way. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Wait, back to the twin thing, though. What I was gonna say before you interrupting me, which will happen a lot. Um, we have in our live show for the past like year or something, I have like a little intro thing that says, um, like, I don't know, it's like whose double identity, which one's Courtney, which one's Arden, whatever. Like, are they actually does this I don't know if it says are they actually twins? Are they actually twins? Because I just assume that people know, which is I guess a little egotistical of me.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Looking at you, reasonably one can assume so, but I I don't think everybody's gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

So people will come up then and be like, so like, are you guys twins? Whatever, and I'm like, oh, I thought like I made it kind of clear, but I guess I didn't. Oh, in the intro. That's why I put it in the that's why I started putting it in our bio because I was like, no, like we are twins, and like I've had people feel like, well, you know, because we don't really play that up, you know, like with the brand and everything, because some people will be like, they're dressing the same, like, or they're polar opposites. Oh, really, people go one of those two routes, and we don't, like, we are very similar, but at the same time, my hair's blonde right now, so for a reason, for a reason. I actually die darker, I just got highlighted though. Um they're both cute. No, but um, I don't know where I was going with that. But yeah, I so I just like assume that people know and then they don't know, so I put it in the bio, but then it's like people don't believe me. And I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

That's where it gets weird to not believe.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Like it's it's like advanced all double identity. Oh, back to my boys are stupid intro to this. Um, for more context to that, there have been times where I've like been like, no, or like try, you know, like tried like try to make a joke about it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Oh, like dryly address the issue.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Where it's like I'm kinda I kind of just like have to double down now because I thought you like were getting it, but you aren't getting it. So now I feel weird. And now like if I backtrack, you're gonna be even more confused because you're still not gonna understand it was a joke. But it would work if like you got we need a signal so that I can come up and be like, hello, yes, we are twins, right? Not or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

I could like what and that sounds like uh no, you could do a bit where like one you you punch your knee and the other one feels it, or something like that. Whatever, like you could make a bit and just troll them completely, or I mean, but really this just sounds like a situation where you're just kind of sussing each other out, and that might not be your room, and that's okay. Like that that they might not be your people.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I kind of I not that it was like a bit I like did all the time, but I think like I tried it play like once or twice and it just didn't land, and I was like, you know what, it isn't really bad that much. I mean, this isn't fun.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Like you're the first set of twins that I've ever interviewed, especially as I mean, period at all. You are, but definitely as artists. So I I do want to ask about that. Like when it does come to music itself, the industry, the music industry itself, or creating in general. Uh does being twins have any impact, good or bad at all?

SPEAKER_01 6:56

No, it's not as advantageous as I would think it could be. What advantage do you think that I don't know, like the musical Zack and Cody Zack and Cody? Marketing.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Marketing Eilish and Phineas are more um musical. Are they twins? No. Oh, okay. Why are you so aggressive? No, I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry. Uh no, I don't think no, they're just siblings, but I feel like they're they could be twins. I feel like they have an energy about them.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

They do, they have a connection, that's obvious. Yeah, you see, especially when you watch like the BTS of the two of them in the studio. It's crazy. They're so cool. They really are. We we love that. So no impact at all, except maybe marketing. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

We don't have any other siblings, so we have nothing to compare it to, career-wise or non-career-wise. Um, this is what it is. Yeah, that's do you have an advantage that we could capitalize on?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Because if you think of something to me, like there's two of you, so like I don't know, double, like if one's sick or something, you could like stand in for the other. I don't know. We can do that with full house, like full house, like baby Michelle style, Mary Keaton Ashley style. I don't know. That that would be one advantage I might imagine.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Or well, I guess I guess um when we sing, sometimes we can't tell who recorded a part. Oh, really? Okay, like wait, like years down the road, yeah. Well, it's kind of color-coded music sheets. So I'm like, this is what I sing, but also when you add, like, usually, um, like if she sings lead on something, then I'll do the harmony or vice versa. So it ends up blending together anyway. And then when we do it live, we usually switch up who sings what anyway. So yeah, keep them guessing, you know. You know those old one direction lyric videos, period. Be like whoever was singing was on the screen. I've always wanted to make one of those, but it's time consuming because I already make the original lyric video. I'm not gonna do it again.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

I understand. And for anybody that doesn't know, you are from one of my favorite cities in the world, Chicago. What is your favorite venue there? Because I've been to a couple in that area. Last time I was there was like that was back in February. It was at the Riviera for OPAT. I love the Riviera.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

You were only there once for Maisie Peters. Do you mean to play or do you mean to attend?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Both.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

We'll go with both.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Either. Whatever comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I like to play venues that we've been to. Like we got to play Shuba's last year. That green room is sick, dude. Nice green room. Nice. Um, and that was exciting for me because the first time we went there, um, we saw Sabrina Carpenter. It was back in 2016. So hot minute ago, even though we're all still.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Oh, and this was before her blow-up.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I mean it was like a sold-out show, but that's like a less than 200. And we saw we saw Maisie Peters there. Maisie Peters. She just released her third album. We saw um most recently Audrey Hobert there. Um, she's having her moment, which is like great, but I want tickets, so slow down people. Um, who else have we seen? I mean we've got a lot of things. Oh, Knox there. You know the Noxes. Um, yeah, just like a bunch of people that we love. We saw them there like the first time they came through. So that was exciting to play. Um Bee Kitchen kind of a lot too. Not a lot, a lot, but I like it there. Um But to attend, I think I would probably have to say Lincoln Hall. I think I love a good balcony moment. I love a seated balcony. I'm like sign me. You can tell kind of in the video right now that I'm small because I'm on like a chair that's not meant for this. But I'm like really small. I'm like 4'10. I can make my so like I'm not gonna see, you know, like I get it.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

It's balcony seats. I'm I'm only 5'1, and I usually go to these shows with my husband, who is a foot and a half taller than me, and he's like, Yeah, like I can see everything. This is great. You're like, shut up, shut up.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah, the height and then like the eyesight not being great, it's just kind of like a recipe for it.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

It kind of is. I I just I mean, and we usually do general admission, just you know, budget. I but the compromise is I force him to like when we go see somebody like Spirit Box, I'm like, I need a full report on what Courtney LePlant is wearing. Like, I need I need this information.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

You need to report back, yeah. From the sky. It's so much more expensive for the like to upgrade uh the paid seats, or then you're like like at Salt Shed, then you're like way far back. And like also, I this is might be controversial for me to say, given that we're like a pop-fresh band. Brave, maybe it is brave. I don't like crowd surfing because I can't pay attention, you know what I mean? Like there's too much going on. I don't want to get kicked in the head, I'm not like super strong. There's you know what I'm saying? Like, so if I know that I'm going to see a band that that happens there, I'll like go to the side or feed. Yeah, that's that's which like I'm not I'm not telling people not to do it. I'm just saying, but if people did it by me, dude. If people did that at our shows, I would be so nervous the whole time. We've been we were in a meeting. I'd be like, please don't get hurt, please don't get hurt. Have you been to subterranean before?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

No, you know where I've been a lot in the Chicago area. I've I've been to Aragon, the Aragon Ballroom, quite a few times. I've been to That stage is so tall. It is. I've been to so tall. Yeah, I've been there, I've been to the revivier a couple times, I've been to like one off like uh Reggie's. Is it Reggie's? Oh, we played there, yeah. I've been to Reggie's, and then I went a little bit outside to like Joliet, where they have like it at the time I was going, it was called the Forge or the Then it was called the Tree. But we it's in the Yeah, it's in Joliet. It's like it's like it's right near in town, like in town in Joliet. I was there quite a few times. Um, and then Tintley Park, I was there quite a few times. So that those are the places that I recall spending most time, but I I mean most of the time if I'm going to a show, it's a metal show. So and I that's just kind of like typically where those acts play.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, sorry, where I was going with the subtraining thing, we went to see me and me at the altar, and people were crowdsurfing onto the stage. We were stretching healthy part. I mean, there was no barricade. Oh wow, like at that place, but I'm like, oh my god, like I don't want somebody like I'm behind the drums, so I have a little bit more of a barrier between people, but I'm like, I don't I don't want some random man crowdsurfing onto the stage. Random anybody, you don't know what they're gonna do. Exactly, yeah. A random also when people put like their drinks on the stage. Oh, they do that, guys. There's a lot of expensive. Oh my god, people do that. There's a lot of kinds of stuff up there and not even like me as a concert goer, I'm like, oh why? Yeah, like we don't feel that like yeah, I mostly have just observed that that doesn't really happen at our shows.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Oh geez. Don't start Don't start because next is not an invitation, I will kick your drink. I'm just glad that I'm not I'm glad that I'm not hearing as often. Like it's also like a year or two ago, we were hearing a lot about people throwing things.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Oh my wait, you're just glad that I'm not hearing that like a month ago, somebody got hurt or they got like a concussion or something because they threw a phone. Oh that's why that's why you can't get a cap for your water bottle. It's those people that ruin it for the rest of us. It really is. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And then I go, Really, guys? Come on.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

My child's gonna be like, you actually can't bring anything in. Nothing. Literally, anymore. I walk in with like if you yeet your phone onto the stage, you're not getting it back.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah. Sorry. I mean, what do they expect? I'm like, what do you expect with the phone being on the stage? Are you expecting the artist to like take a selfie?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I've seen people like they'll like hand their phones and like when be when be real was a thing, like people would always be handing their phones or like it's a video, and then you know, like that's fine, but you're handing it to them and they're accept like their consent.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

There's a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

You're not like I don't know how you can be like a fan say that you're a fan of someone and then do something to put them in harm's way and be like, Well, I didn't think that would happen. Well, sure, you didn't think you would actually physically hurt them, but you knew that that could happen. Like, what was your goal?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah, what was what would get attention because you got it, probably from the court. I I know I bet nine times out of ten, I bet that is the goal. But uh, you know, you can set the vibe with what you're putting out and your good energy that you're putting out. And I know you two kill it at that. So, for anybody that doesn't know, just to give a little brief, very brief descriptor of your sound and what we've got going on here. We have like MySpace early 2000s vibes happening, lots of pink, lots of black. We love, love, love like kind of a pop punk sound going on. I mean, or is that very you correct me if I'm wrong? No, that has to be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Oh no, that's perfect, yeah. And I'm glad to hear you describe it that way.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Um, because we were that was high school for me, so that's why I pick clocked it immediately.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

I was like, No, good, perfect, because that's that's like what we're going for. We used to describe it as like Disney Channel pop punk kind of because like if you look at like 2008 Demi Lovato like Jonas Brothers.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

She is not, yeah, she's not 1226 Demi Lovato for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Exactly. Like it's like those era or like Kiss and Tell by Selena Gomez in the scene. Period album. Period would probably like it. It's it was very much like a pop rock album, like guitars. It was like the golden age. Amazing. Um, so you can't just say Disney Channel because then you think it's like Bizarre Dark Teeny Bopper. I was a Disney channel girly, so that's people will be like, oh yeah, like reminds me of like Disney, and then they're like, I mean that as a compliment. And I'm like, I totally love Disney channels, so that is a compliment. I'm like, I was a Disney kid growing up, so yeah, I know how that feels. I mean, for me, it was a lot of Nickelodeon, but uh Okay, we did not watch like Victorious until we were I think adult. Yeah, but I was on other people's houses, but for whatever reason, we did not watch Nickelodeon. I feel like growing up or a Disney kid or a Nickelodeon kid, pretty much, and I think I I'm like why why was that?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Right, you're even no loyalty from a young age. I think it has to do with the proximity to cable because I've had so many people tell me how bougie I am for growing up with cable and the ability to watch Nickelodeon because they're like, no, no, you need to do and I get well is Disney cable, I guess it would have been cable too. I don't know, but they're like the fact that you even have the choice is like a lot, girl. And I'm like, really? Like it just until I until I started to meet people like right now. I'm in Minnesota, I've lived in Minnesota for 10 years, I'm enjoying it, but I am meeting like you know, I'm in the middle of farms, like I'm not in Minneapolis, I'm an hour and a half outside. So I'm meeting people who grew up in rural areas, and they're like, you don't understand the access is real or the lack thereof. Like you you that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

If we were think about it like that, yeah. Right, they go as a child teach as a child to like Hannah Montana, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Right, and it's and it is there is an element of privilege to it, and no, I had to be checked on that, and I was like, Okay, everything is so much more accessible now, it is streaming and everything.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

I mean, if you miss the episode, yeah, if you missed it, you missed it so well. It's like at a certain point, you couldn't even record a TV show, you had to sit and watch it.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Right. So you obviously have a love for this era, you have a love for that sound, for that aesthetic. Did that develop did when you decided, okay, we're gonna make double identity a thing, was that the intention all along? Like this is what double uh you know identity is gonna be. It's gonna this is the vibe.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

No, we didn't have a vibe. It just kind of happened that way. I mean, we started we started, I mean, we've been playing out since we were like really like little. So like 10 or something. So it's it wasn't I mean, back then it was not like a conscious choice for any of us. I would s I would even argue honestly, like up until like talking to ghosts act one, it wasn't intentional. That's I feel like that sounds bad. Like, it's not that we didn't care about it or anything. We're still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

We it sounds yeah, there's a difference. There's a difference between not caring and still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah, we just we didn't know what we were we didn't even know how to record. Like our first DP was called Small Talk, and it's not on the new Double Identity Spotify. But if you search up Double Identity Band, it's on there. Or I have literally a billion CDs of it, so come to a show and you can get one.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

But go get it at the merch table.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, literally, literally, but um, so you can kind of see like the inklings right. But we didn't know what we were doing, that was like the bands were there. Like we recorded that all analog, and then when we got to Red Flags and Roses, which was the first single off of act one, that was um with a different producer, and that was all digital. I like digital better, um, because I can be really indecisive. So it's like like the concept of oh, we're gonna spend day one locking in guitar tones that I might hate in three minutes is very stressful. I'm like, I can't believe I did that. Like, what do you mean I have a lot of convincing to have like a synth in a song? So you can maybe if you know that if you listen through act one versus act two of Talking versus now, again has a lot of synths, like and also I was I was very at the beginning, I was very much so like, no, it has to be an actual instrument, and I'm still like that in the sense of like this needs to be able to be played live with backing tracks. I'm like if it sounds cool, but put it in. Yeah, so I've gotten a lot more not lax, but I guess flexible. Oh, it's but I think like there's a trap beaten are you gonna listen now? She's that the trap beat at first. I had to be I had to sit with that for a while and be convinced. Our producer put it in and I was like, It's not real drums, like it's not like me. Um and he was like, just sit with it and then you know, I like it, and we've put it in other stuff too. But then like I had not touched logic ever in my life, really. Until the program, not like the critical thinking skill. I mean, we know you can argue.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

We get it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Um, but like I had done a little bit on Ableton in in high school, like I took one class by that.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

I mean, um, you were interested all the way then, you like in high school, you really wanted to like lock in and learn this.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah, I mean, because I feel like the more which I get a preface to this, like, I don't know music theory at all. I don't know like a music theory, it's not many musicians that do, to be honest. No, you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised they they do know, and I don't know. And there's like a club that I'm not into because I don't understand it. Like, my whole life, basically, I've learned um basically just by ear. Like, I did take lessons, but it was more so like it's matching sounds. So to me, so when people are like, Oh, how do you do that? How do you do whatever? Like, there is there's a cap, you know what I mean? Like, in terms of of learning, like there is technique and stuff that you actually have to learn instead of just well, this is that sound, and then whatever, and then someone's gonna be like, Oh, it's this key. I don't understand the keys of songs. You say so, I believe you. People ask us, they're like, What key is this? I'm like, girl, you tell me you tell me, I don't know. So I have to write all that down because I do it. There's something in my brain that it's it's very hard. It's very hard. So I'm just like, if PSA to anyone that is learning music at a young age, learn that stuff. When people say that's boring, learn it this way. Instead, do the boring stuff when you're a kid, because then it'll be over.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

And give yourself grace while you're in the learning phase, really. Like there's a lot of people that psych themselves out and then don't end up doing what they want to do at all. And I get sad about that. And I'm like, no, that's that's not living.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

You'd rather just do it poorly. I think I think there's there's like a threshold of like when you're first starting out at something and you mean when I taught myself piano for two months and then stop and you don't know anything, then I think you're you're almost in a better just for me, like you're in a better mindset versus once you start realizing you know, the more you know you don't know. And yeah, it's like and then it's uh like I'm kind of like that with production. Like I I said I wasn't really doing any of it, and then I was like, Oh, I need to make a demo to go have to record the song. I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. Did I cry? You bet I did, and it all ended up working out, and then like I'll go through these um these stretches of like for Kiss Me Again. Um, that one I feel like it stayed pretty much. Which is our new song. It stayed pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Our new song by the time this is out, the world will know kiss me again. So, yes, let's dive into this.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Um, that was a song that Courtney and I wrote with our friend John. He like came over one day and we were like, we gotta write together. He was in a band called Um Cleveland Avenue back in the day. By that I mean like three years ago, maybe two years ago, whatever. Um, and we were like, okay, we have to write together. And we don't really write with other people because I I feel very, I guess, like insecure about that. Like you have to be like very vulnerable with people. Yeah, I would imagine. So I'm like, if I don't, if I we're not like besties, I feel like I'm scared, you know what I mean? Like I can't, or I'm gonna feel like you're judging me, but that's me projecting that onto you, even though it's a whole thing. Um, but it worked out. Um, he like literally came over for the whole day, and we I had I had like the idea of the song I had a little bit. I think I had like the post bridge. I'm getting I swear there's point to this story. Um and then you know, we wrote the song on acoustic, which like is usually how I that's how I used to write everything. Like a lot of the stuff that we haven't released is also very like singer-songwriter-y, too. Um, so I like kind of more like our song What She Did a little bit more in that vein. And then it just either ends up getting translated into something that's rockier, or we just don't end up picking it to record because we do have to be reselective. Um, but then by the time it got time to do the demo, I feel like Courtney and John had kind of We were locked in. They were like locked in on kind of what they wanted. The vibe. The vibe was like, I don't know. I could not pick up on the vibe. I was like, I don't know how to do this. Because again, I'm like, I'm very, very, very new at attempting to produce or demo anything. So I was like, what do you mean you two have the vision and I'm the one that has to execute? Which John could do it, he just wasn't he was moving or he was home at that point. Um, but I was like, now I have to do it when I don't know what's going on. Like, what but it ended up being, I think, I I think I'll have to I'd have to double check, but I feel like the demo actually ended up staying pretty close to what ended up like the song kind of turned into. Obviously, it gets like amplified and everything, but there were elements in the original demo, like synths and stuff, that we ended up, I think, actually just like flying over into or a version of that, like into the final track, which I was like, wow. So I've improved, and then I had like a false sense of confidence when it came to demo out the next song, and it was a total disaster that we ended up actually pivoting and doing a different song because I could demo that one out a lot faster than I could do like two days before we went.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Why was it such a disaster?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Dude, we still don't have the vibe, so the vibe was not vibing. When we come back on the podcast, um, we'll tell you all about that one. Maybe out by then. But I also I really pivoted, I was like, this is not working. And our producer, um, I was telling him this story then when we were working on the other song. He's like, that's like what I do. Like, you can bring it like that. And I'm like, no, but if I don't, if I can't properly articulate to you what it is I want, I'm not gonna like anything that you like show me. I'm not gonna be able to commit to that. Um, so we're we're working. I still have not made a successful demo of that song at this at the time of this taping. We'll get there. We'll get there. It will get there. The demo was so far, even from the acoustic thing, too. Artist spent like days on it and she showed it to me. And I was too creepy. Uh it's not bad, but this ain't like I have like hours and hours put into this, and I'm like, I don't want to hear anything negative. You better not say a word. Just be like, it sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

And like it was a bit over.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

But just think it wasn't like that. I feel like there was a groove there. If this was a TV show, you'd like flashback to me actually being super frustrated and not. It was a Disney Channel Sit to in this universe that we're creating right now. I'm gonna say it was great.

unknown 29:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Odd kiss me again, though. I mean, the clip that's successful, you're happy about that. I would love to chat a little bit more about the lyrics on that one because that's where I stayed. And it sounds like it's kind of based in, or the story is, so to say, you love someone really hard at one point, only to realize that it wasn't reciprocated, and you still don't care in that moment. Like, we're here for the chaos. Stay delusional, guys.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Stay delusional. Yeah, I I was thinking about this actually earlier today, because I was like, are we gonna talk about it? Like, how do I explain? Because it's it's very closely kind of tingled up in at least one other song, that song that I can't demo out. Um, like kind of listening to the mess you make me and then kiss me again.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Oh, okay, because the theme is the same. Because I was about to say, please tell me nobody tried you this way for real. Like in real life.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Here's the thing I am the type of person I'm I feel like I'm getting okay. I'm getting better at it, I think. And in this situation, I was better, believe it or not. But I'm the kind of person that has to like run something into the ground. Like, if I if I know that something isn't gonna work out, like I see that writing on the wall, I'm like, we kind of have to see like it has to, I can't just know that intuitively. I like they I they have to say something or or do something for me to be like, there it is, like I was right, and now I can exit.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Um now imagine being me sitting there knowing all of this as well and having to wait so this is her to come to the she figures it out, and you're what you're watching her spin the block, like no, but she'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

That's kind of the point of chorus too, uh, is like I know where I know where it's going. I mean, I say that in the song, like I know how it ends. But like, I also feel okay, like we're all we're all frontier. I feel that sometimes, you know, they're I don't know where she's going with this.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

I'm trying to work. It's uh this is this is what I'm gathering. I'm gathering an ex in your world doesn't always have to stay an X.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

No, no, that's no, no, no, I'm not a backslider. Okay, okay. So we're back to the thing, but I no, no, I just I feel like I have been in situations too where I'm like, again, I I see where it's going, but I'm kind of like in denial a little bit on it. So I'm like, well, maybe, maybe it could like maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm like gaslighting myself. I'm like, maybe it will be different, and this isn't what I think it is, except it actually is. So kind of like the the broken and bridge through the dead end type thing is exactly that. It's like, well, I would, you know, I would be going in this trajectory with you, but then this other person doesn't feel the same. And like, it's not even in this instance for me, like a situation of like being in love with somebody necessarily. It's just like I thought this was one thing, and you thought it was something else, or you were like operating, like if it's like I was living this in a rom-com genre, but you were living it in like I'm just just the side character life. Um, so then like the like the spill my guts part, it's like, well, I said like I said something or I did something, right? That like it's all out there now. It's out there, you know. It's there's no like dancing, you know, like if you if you avoid having a conversation with someone because you're like that's gonna be it then. So let's just not have that conversation. Don't do that, people. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Just have the conversation. See me, my philosophy, your ex is an ex for a reason. I am I am a Capricorn sun and a cancer moon in rising. I will cut you off in a second, especially if you play with my emotions. We do not have time with that. And I feel for it that much more intensely.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

I don't really know what it means, but I do know. But I agree with what you just said. But I do know that, like, I don't think I vibe with Scorpios. I've learned that. Um, okay. So I don't know what that says, but I this I was like, I think they're on to something. Like, I don't know anything about star signs, but this has happened to me in my. If you're a man born in October, you gotta go. Like, with you know, at a certain point this happens to you multiple times, and you're like, well, there is a pattern here, and it's must be the birth month, it must be the birth month, it must be the star sign. Yeah, that's kind of a that's kind of a tangent-y thing, but yeah, I don't know. It's sometimes we write the songs coming from different perspectives too.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

So how do you yeah, how do you two meld that together into one thing that you're happy with?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Lyrically, so like I really like the line in the second verse um about falling through the ice because I was reading Fourth Wing at the time. Okay. So I don't know if you've read it. Um, I don't want to do any spoilies. Um, but the one of the characters talks about like basically feeling like they're skating on top of the ice and like they don't want to like fall in. Um people that have read the book and are gonna be like, that's a really bad explanation. It is a it's a metaphor though.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

But it is yeah, it's it's your you're you acknowledge a risk. There's a risk there.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so I was gonna be so for real, girl. You knew that ice was thin when you started walking on the oh boy. I I knew no, it was so funny because when we got in the studio and started recording this, our producer was like, you know, that's really cool that you guys, you know, like wrote something that, you know, is he didn't say fictional. I don't remember what he said, but the essence was like, oh, that like this it blends both. This isn't yeah, something like super because like talking to ghosts, act one and act two, all of that was pretty much true. For those, I was like, it needs to like reflect back to a real thing or like a metaphor of a real thing. But for Kiss Me Again, I I So I let with that was kind of the constraints I put on us for Talking to Ghosts. Um, even the songs on the encore. Go listen to it. It's five bonus songs that are on the uh CD. I kept that pretty much. So then when we were done recording that project, I was like, okay, like breath of fresh air kind of thing. We're gonna do something different and like not have to make every single line like ring true to the city. But it wasn't kiss me again, it wasn't about forcing it, just kind of at least the place that I was writing from, like I was referencing me and John on the other side. No, but it was also funny because you and John had heard all about everything all the time. So, like I Because you have to tell the story while you're working on it, I would guess. Yeah, well, just in general, like they'd be they could. I think there were probably a couple lines where I was like, I don't care if I don't like that. I don't care if that was true. Take it off.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

So, what do you want people to feel when they hear Kiss Me Again? Leave your boyfriend. No, don't go back to your ex.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Um I don't know. I think I think that a lot of our songs tend to cover like very long spans of time. And I feel like for me at least, when I listen to it, it it's kind of a really specific instance. It's like you know, a shorter package time. I know the the first verse is like talking about the end of summer and clearly there's been time, whatever. But I feel like it's the specific kind of thing of like cool, I'm gonna open up to you and say stuff or whatever, and you're gonna kind of disregard that and just like kiss me again, like derogatory. Um so I I don't know. I I want people to feel like they are it's nighttime, okay? And maybe you're making bad decisions, maybe you're not. Whatever, girl, it's your problem. Um that's none of my business. It's just like like a warm summer evening in a car at nighttime, and you're just like driving around. Because that was kind of going back to the synths and stuff, like that was very much the vibe that we wanted to capture, and I I think that we did that. That's what I was most excited about with this song. Is like eventually, once we got to the clear vision of how to do that, you know, once we translated the vibe, yeah, that that it kind of would take you to that kind of place. So that's why I'm glad that we're releasing it now. I'm like, listen to it at nighttime the first time, please. Really like get that vibe in there. And um yeah, convoluted answer, but I also want it to be whatever people want to feel. If you if that's like, yeah, dude, jump that dude, he's a loser, then great. If it's that should probably be a lot of our songs, yeah. If it's like also if you want to be seen a little bit, of like sometimes you have to stick around for a little bit just to really hone it in there that you should not be staying. I you know, I get that too.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

So some sometimes it's fine to get a little bit of Lulu. That's okay. Yeah, I mean you have to be for a little bit, just not for a little.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

You need to keep the whimsy for the plot. That's the thing, right? This could be split into a song of like the subject has whimsy, and the dude you're talking about has no whimsy. You can't be a girl and be with a non-wimsy. That doesn't make him evil, it doesn't make him evil, but it makes him boring.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

I was gonna say, just a little little boring, but but we are the as the partner in that situation, do you have to clock that and go, okay, this maybe isn't for me. Like, this is what it is. At some point, I gotta and it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

So, like, yeah, also like getting on my soapbox, like just because somebody wants something doesn't mean that that has to be you, you you know, like you don't have to change to be what they want because girl, that boy is not gonna change to be what you want.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

That's I know I was still doing that until I was like 16, and I wish I like had learned.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

I did not even think about boys until at such a young age to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

But I was terrible. I like I I was terrible. I was I was like, uh my worth is equated to what guy I can bag. There was a point where I was like really, really young where I was like, that's what everybody's doing to grow up that way.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah, you know what I mean? I mean, not everybody, but like, you know, all even all like the princess movies, it's like, oh, nobody comes and here he is, and and and great, and and there is like a rhetoric around I could talk about this all day, like you know, of oh, if you're single, then like you're not worth as much, or like even like the like the like the cat lady thing. I like cats, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

We're fine with that. I love that's why I love Taylor Swift right now. I'm like, please come through with the getting married, quote unquote, later in life, air quotes, and and come through with like being patient and really waiting until you find the absolute perfect fit for and then not screening yourself for that person. Exactly. Thank is for finding somebody who is uplifting and is willing to you know be at your side when you need them, fit into your life instead of just like.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

No, people like like I mean, I know that it depends on kind of like the culture of where you're growing up to. We know people that like they're married at 21. And I'm like, what? What do you mean? No judgment to them. I'm just saying that's scary. And I feel like like even just me, like I've grown and changed, I'm more of a menace now than I was five years ago. I'll tell you that. I'm gonna probably be more of one in another five years, you know. But just like you change so much, so it's like this version of you isn't the same as it was, and like obviously people can grow together, whatever. I'm not an expert, but at the same time, I I think there is kind of a lot of pressure sometimes on like girls and young women to be like, Well, if a guy doesn't want you, then that means that you're worthless, or that yeah, then what's wrong with you? And it's like a skirt, you know, maybe is he a catch though? Ask yourself, period, period. Like the concept of just like having someone, or like the aesthetics of that and what that looks like online, or what that looks like, yeah. Like, you don't know people's lives, like you don't someone could be way happier single than they were in a relationship, and that's okay. And I think there's kind of this stigma too around like choosing yourself and like choosing to be single, if that's seen as like selfish or something, especially you know, that it's like, well, you're just figuring stuff out, and also the whole like, oh, you're gonna I feel like there's also this thing in America of like, oh, you're gonna go to college after high school, and you're gonna live your life in college, and then you're gonna get married, and then you're gonna have kids, and it's gonna be whatever, whatever, whatever. And you're just kind of I feel you don't have to unpack that as much. And I think, I mean, this is not even a music-related thing at all.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

But I believe me, we have commented on this in in so many words on this podcast before, too, because I I I I completely agree. I think we're forced to kind of make those decisions, like where we're gonna go to school, what what career we're gonna have for the rest of our life, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's how it's framed. And you're also asking a 17-year-old. Yeah, like girl, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I think I don't even know what's out there when you're 17. You probably think you know more than you know, and then well, it's the adults.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

That's that's where I think it's wrong. It's the adults that are even older that are putting that pressure on a 17-year-old. I'm like, can we put that in perspective, please? And the old you get, you're like, that's a child. Exactly. Well, I sit back at that. I look back at that. Like, I I remember teachers, administration, and schools, my own parents. I'm like, do you you know, I I look back at that as a 36 year old now, and I'm like, they were asking me at that age, what do you want to do? Is it, you know, you you speak really well, you're interested in music. Use that. Are you gonna do this? Are you gonna do that? And I'm like, I just wanna like rock and roll, man. At that time, and like I think they're trying to help. It's just like but it's a lot, it's a lot to ask, and it's a lot to ask of somebody that young, I think. And you haven't had I feel like no one really talks about that you can pivot to.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Believe me, it feels like once you pick that, you have to do that. And if you start to like regret the choice, like there's nothing you can do about it, and that's not true. That's like college too. Like, we both went in as English majors. I was gonna do creative writing, and not music at all. We never did music in school really. Um, yeah, but then we you know we ended up switching and everything. And I'm like, if you say you know, like Val knows our you know, our you know, allegian careers.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Um I I know the vibe, I know the feeling. No, but I I to your point, I have a journalism and mass communications degree. Is that what I do for a day job anymore? No, hell no. I like I left the industry for a reason, and that that was a pivot. And I'm doing this for fun because I enjoy it, and I'm doing it in this environment because I have more creative control, that's a big part of it. But to your point, yeah, most people, most people don't like their jobs, most people don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I get the follow your passion thing, but like sometimes that sucks all the joy out of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

It does like and it just exemplifies the bad parts of it, right? Most people aren't using their actual degrees anymore. It's different than I think what our you know, our boomer parents, especially. I I have boomer parents, it was different for them. They they were able to stay with the same company for 30 and 40 years. Now no one wants to give you benefits, and you're like, oh but there was incentive for them to do that, it was different for them. It was and I look back at that and I'm like, okay, well, I understand where that's why they came at me with the messaging they came at with. They thought they were baby, full millennial here. I was not prepared. Like, we what for you and for you guys and and for us, it's completely different. We're dealing with a completely different economy, we're dealing with a completely different structure when it comes to everything's worse.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Companies they do not want to hire it's just different, yeah. You to work at the company. They're like, what if we just hired you on as a contract and then gave you zero benefits and we could also just fire you at any time? It's yeah, it's 10 bucks an hour.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Are you hard? It's hard. So, I mean, shout out shout out to you guys for doing essentially the same thing and doing what you're passionate about, but doing it in your way on your time in a way that makes you happy. What it I at the time we're talking, kiss me again, loving it. What's next? What's on the horizon for double identity? What can we get excited about?

SPEAKER_01 46:54

We are working on an EP. Can I say that? Uh I guess she did.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

She said what she said, ladies and gentlemen. It's it's coming.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Not gonna tell you what it's called or the song we're working on now because it's a title track. So, I mean, I'll tell you after we stop recording if you want.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

But we know we can look forward to an EP. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Yes, and it will be named after a song.

unknown 47:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

So we haven't done that since small talks, so that's usually I'm not a big fan of it. Like naming because I get on the fence about like naming something, like having a title track. You know what I mean? Really? Why so? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

I think consider that's a cliche, because it is kind of cliche. I will give you that.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Okay, I'll I will say my take. I don't like self-titled albums, but I understand why people do them, I understand why they do them, but I don't I'm like, if you ever see us do one, you have to come and yell at me. Um play the clip back. Yeah, it's confusing, first of all, when you talk about it. And then it's also I feel like everyone's always like, but this album just feels like the most me. And I'm like, I'm not trying to like discredit that, but kind of each album you could say that for. But maybe they don't because I mean we're fully independent, we have control over everything. I would imagine. Right, but like selfishly, I get confused then about if we're talking about the artist or the album. I think V view or self-titled or right. So I mean you're not even using the name anymore.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Yeah, that's so it sounds like you view albums, EPs, whichever, both there for you, they're snapshots in time, and you're you're you're willing to be flexible and call it an era for lack of a better term. Like this is what we were doing then, like go full tailor with it. This is what we were doing then, and we love it, but now we're moving on to something else, or this was that. Yeah, it's the blueprint.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

And I think too, you can you can kind of hear threads of stuff like when you go back. I think on talking to ghosts, it was like whatever track three was, or no, there was something track four, I think, was ended up being kind of the one that influenced what came after. So I do think it's cool when you can also go back through like an artist that you like and kind of see like the threads of the transition, yeah. Um yeah, so we like the song that we can't figure out the vibe for the the aforementioned, um, it's probably gonna be closer to like the next project. I'm not committing to that statement at all. She's not committing because the idea I've had the idea for like since probably we were halfway through the CP, and I was like, I know the name of the next project, and I know like the titles of like some of the songs. So imagine me who can't figure out the production angle on this song, and she's like two years ahead, and I'm like, Can you stop, please? I don't under like I don't So I don't know if it's gonna pan out because we've had ideas like that before and then we never did them, but um I'm saying it here so you can hold me accountable. We just need to stay tuned, that's all. Yeah, exactly. There will be another project after it, whether it's that one or not. I'm also a big fan of like there has to be some sort of physical media for this thing.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

I do miss that.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

We we really thought that we were gonna just do singles after Talking to Ghost, because we're like, I don't know if people are really paying attention, like what you know, like what are we doing? It's expensive to print stuff and to do all of it anyway. Um but I am some I'm like, if it's just if it just lives online, right? Like then it just lives online. It's not real. Take it away. And it's not real, but like streaming all the time, and it's like I want people to be able to I love a sign. And like I want to hold it because like that's you know, yeah, they made it, yeah. That's like all of our cover art. Um, I make and there's usually some sort of element of like I actually took a picture, like our song The Party, that was like I have the karaoke machine like right down here, and this pretty background right behind the side. Yeah, like there it was a bunch of different like elements, like real collage. Well, and for like the mess you make me, the thing that got super imposed in that was the skyline, like the what's through the windshield.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Oh, the sh like Chicago skyline?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah, and then the um I don't know, I don't know what it was or where like the title on the little console, but like the rest of it is a picture that we took of me crammed in the seat of the car, and Arden's like, just hold it, and I'm like, my legs are cramping, I can't. And kiss me again, that was we had um a convertible in our backyard, and I took uh the the heart-shaped suckers. I'm gonna do the heart shape suckers. Yeah, perfect. I smashed them. I smashed it with something. It wasn't even a hammer or something. I think it was like something, it was like just something random and weird. And I was like, Yeah, okay, cool. So then I put it on the like the hood of the car and just took a bunch of pictures and I was like, something's gotta, something's gotta work. Um so that and and it was that. So I the point that I was attempting to originally make is like all of this stuff in our lives in general is digital, right? You have social media, you have you're watching TV, you're doing whatever, we're on screens all the time. So like to be able to somewhat physically make something that you know, even you're you're playing the instrument, obviously, in real life, and then it goes into the computer, and then you know that stuff that like to hold something that you did, like to print it out, it's like okay, cool, like here, like here is the thing, versus like, oh yeah, it's on Spotify. Which it is, so go listen, you know what I mean? But it's like, oh, just go listen to it. It's like Trust, I'm checking the count.

unknown 52:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

But I don't know, I I feel like it is an art form. It is. It is. We don't have as many resources as you know, people on labels or everything. So we are very limited in the stuff that we can do, but we are trying to do the best with what we can do and what we have. Um, so I just I don't know. I feel like sometimes it's easy to kind of lose the plot of like, oh, it's all online, and that's just it just lives in the ether. Well, right.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Because where's your tangible evidence of what you've got? Yeah, I it like I I you can walk away. I I would imagine if I was an artist, I would walk away asking that same question. Because for for me, and probably for you too, like I I know a world definitely with CDs and Walkman's, and then I watched that change as I got older.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

I I watched that evolution, I watched it become oh my gosh, we used to have to go to Target the day an album came out. I did, yeah. We all played Cars had CD players and listened to it. And like that was I remember when Selena Gomez in the scene, we're bringing it back, uh their third album, When the Sun Goes Down. I remember at midnight it was on iTunes. So you remember when you could I mean you see on there, but so that was the only snippets I heard of the song, and so I had to wait till my mom got off work that day and went to Target and got me the CD to hear like the whole thing, yeah. And I mean there's something special about that too, like this extra anticipation. I love a little lyric booklet. Um, we have not had the funds to do that, but someday I would love to do it because it's just again, it's like another art form. Yeah, that's really cool. It's just world building, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Those those lyric booklets and and what you're talking about there, the little packaging, that was the only way you learned anything about an artist at one point at all. Like everything else was just lore and mystery. Like you didn't have lyric videos, you don't know what they're saying. You didn't you didn't know anything unless you had the sheet in front of you, or like you didn't know anything.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

And you get like the thank yous too.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Like a lot of them write like a note, right? I remember the thank yous.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Yeah, and you don't I mean you don't get that on stream.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

I mean, you get an Instagram caption, but that's not it's not the same as like reading it in the and it's a microscopic so much time and effort and money and emotion goes into making that album or that EP or that song, even. And I I feel like people outside of the industry don't really realize it's like, oh, we'll just like put out more music. It's like right, hang on a second, you know. Like this took you know how many hours this took this to this took for some bands, it takes two to two, four, five years, which like and it takes as long as it takes, too. That's the thing that I kind of had to realize with songwriting as well, is like, you know, you hear the pros talk about it sometimes and they're like, Oh, this came together in 20 minutes, this came together in whatever. And like sometimes it does, but for the a lot of the times, especially because like I'm very much a lyrics person, like um, for example, with Kiss Me Again, um, the first line, the summer heat, that got changed later. Like, it wasn't that originally when we wrote it, and um we can we can tell her what it was. We we wanted it to be um October Eve made a mess of me, but it just didn't flow with it.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Summer heat I like summer heat better. Yeah, and I do it.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

I think that was John's call. He was like Yeah, it was his call because October Eve is. I I've kind of gotten like obsessed with like I want to have a song that had like throughout my life, where I mention every day of the week and every month. Like, but October Eve wouldn't even work because that's technically September, so it doesn't, you know, it doesn't work, but like you know, syllable-wise and everything, like it ended up getting us to where we needed to go, um, which is half the battle, honestly. Yeah, usually you just need a tune and then because I don't be like, I don't like this lyric. I'm like, it doesn't matter, just put it in so we have the tune we can rewrite counting on my fingers. I'm like, it has to be four syllables and to fit in the slot and everything.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yeah, yeah. I love this. It's so obvious. I love talking to you because it is so obvious that you care a lot about what you do. You put a lot of time, a lot of thought, a lot of intention.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

A lot of overthinking, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Yeah, well, join the club, baby. We have a prescription for the anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

What are you doing? I don't know. You have to care, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Yeah, I I completely get it. So I I'm thrilled for all of that. I cannot wait to see what's next. Cannot wait for the AP on the way. We love kiss me again. Thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Sometimes Delulu might be the Sululu. You never know. I mean, creatively, certainly. So, at least in that aspect, have fun, experiment. Yes, the whole ride is nerve-wracking. Yes, it's got moments where you're like, oh, you might cringe a little bit, or maybe you're unshorn, maybe you're filled with a little bit of anxiety. But these two are still so lively and passionate about everything that they're doing with Double Identity. I love to see it, and I hope that that has inspired you with this episode as well. Kiss me again from Double Identity is out now. EP on the way. We've got a lot to look forward to, so keep following them. I will give you all the links to do so in the show notes and of course, captions on YouTube, wherever it is that you're getting this, wherever you're all all that good stuff, all the social medias, uh it will all be there. And at valclinehands.com, where you can get the recap of every episode I've done vigorously with a guest, for certainly. And you can get it there as well in case you missed it. Thanks so much for tuning in. More to come. Bye.