Vigorously with Val Kleinhans
Vigorously with Val Kleinhans, includes artist interviews, conversations with creatives, and solo reflections from me that go past promo and into the real human side of creativity.
Candid conversations that go beyond the surface — exploring who artists are, how creators think, why music matters, and what inspires the work we connect with.
Through interviews, solo reflections, and commentary on artist news, Val explores the psychology of creativity, the pressure of visibility, and what modern music culture is doing to artists and fans behind the scenes. Vigorously.
New episodes go live on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube weekly.
Inquiries: val.kleinhans@gmail.com
Vigorously with Val Kleinhans
Beautiful Skeletons Make Creativity a Team Sport
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When the world seems to be working against you, Beautiful Skeletons have learned that those are the times to bond together that much tighter when accomplishing a goal.
Val chats with Tina Firefly about music industry challenges, working with legend Ulrich Wild, and the haunted experiences shared while putting the upcoming album Pulse Line Scar together.
STREAM Beautiful Skeletons: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6dZD3pOhLSVUZCXLFRwwpd?si=CQV4_j-7Q7aVY7L4gHmEeA
Beautiful Skeletons Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/beautiful_skeletons_band/
Get more Val at https://valkleinhans.com/
What happened? He goes, You didn't hear that? I'm like, Yeah, I what what happened? He goes, my closet literally opened in front of my eyes. I said, What the f and it slammed shut.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, So wait, is that the magic word to like get it to stop then? Is that the magic word?
SPEAKER_01We should be living life vigorously.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to another edition of Vigorously with me, Val Klein Hands. Always stoked to have another woman in the building because we need more of this in heavy music. I mean, we we can't get enough of it. So let's do this again today. Tina Firefly of Beauty Skeletons. Welcome. I am thrilled to have you. How are you, girl?
SPEAKER_02You know, life is crazy, but I am alive and I have served I'm surviving North Carolina heat right now. That's how I am.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Right now, Minnesota is at 93. And for us, that is sweltering. Sweltering cannot handle it. North Carolina heat. I can't even begin to comprehend.
SPEAKER_02Cannot yesterday it came out and I was like, I sh I need to go back in and grab a fork and a knife because it was so sick. It was insane. Yes. And my dog, who would prefer to just live his entire life outside, like took one step out onto our little screened in porch and was like, fuck no, just noped right back at his air. It's great. Nope.
SPEAKER_00Nope. Can't do it. Well, did you did you grow up calling them fireflies or lightning bugs?
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. Um, I wish the answer to that was like a yes or no, but I'm gonna take you down a rabbit hole because I grew up on an island. We have no fireflies, we have it's just not an insect that actually existed in my world. I saw them in Disney movies and heard them. Um but I had I'd never actually seen one until we were in uh Ringold, Georgia. We were staying at our bus driver's house for a week, and my bass player was outside with me in the middle of the night. We were like talking about whatever, and I saw a bunch of glowing things, and I was like, Oh, those fireflies, you know, and so that was the first time I'd seen him. Yeah, it was awesome.
SPEAKER_00And you've always called them that. Is but is there any connection between that and the name?
SPEAKER_02Not not really. I mean, I've created a connection obviously over the gears to you know make it seem like me, but I mean, I just kind of like stumbled upon the nickname randomly a long, long time ago. I actually thought it would make a really cool song title, and then I ended up just stealing it as a stage name, I guess.
SPEAKER_00I love it, and you and I have some major moves in common too. You kind of just hinted at this a little bit ago. You went from the West Coast to North Carolina. I've moved around quite a bit in my life too. But uh how how was that journey for you? Because moving's a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and when I tell you that like I have an entire gaggle of people in my household, I I am not even exaggerating, not a little bit. I have my mom, so I have two seniors, I have my mom, and then my mother-in-law, and then I have my husband, and then I have three kids, one of which was already living here, two of which are still living with me and are minors, and then we had two cats and a giant barky, goofy, stupid dog. So yeah, it was it was a thing. Like surviving the transition is to me like my biggest accomplishment in the last 10 years. It was crazy. Um, but somehow we all made it and we're here, and uh despite the heat and everything, everybody really loves it here. Which um for the teenagers, I'm surprised. I figured they would be the ones complaining the most.
SPEAKER_00I see. Is music the thing that gets you through those tough, stressful, hectic moments?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, yes. I only uh everything is a song for me. I mean to my detriment, probably, because anytime I'm just standing around, there's like a random raindrop hitting like an outside panel of something, and it's just like and I'll start just creating a song out of nothing to the point where everyone's like, shut up, mom. So uh yeah, I can't imagine not having something like that to occupy those little pockets in my mind that haven't gone completely fucking insane.
SPEAKER_00And you uh you're working with other, you know, be it producers, other musicians, whoever in the industry, you're working with different people all over the country all the time. So yeah, I imagine that most of what you do gets done remotely.
SPEAKER_02Well, it is the case now. So, you know, my the band Beautiful Skeletons, um, we all are in the Vancouver Portland area, you know, that was Washington and Oregon, and um we've all been living there for a long time. And it my husband's job took us out this way, and there was a decision that needed to be made at that point because like we we're almost 10 years in now, right? We all have this thing that we've created, this baby, and nobody's ready to just like give up just yet.
SPEAKER_01I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's generally the death of a band once you know one of the main members goes to the other side of the United States and can't physically be there in between. Um, but we all just realized in our heart that we were gonna try anyway, and um, we got smarter about the business end of things, and there's so much to be done that has nothing to do with gigging sometimes. And I think really having time to focus on marketing and branding and that other piece of it where we want to grow our our online base and then be able to pop into a festival or do select gigs throughout the year as we can and kind of pull people together then. So we have to change our strategy, but no way are we stopping in any way.
SPEAKER_00I love that I have so many follow-ups here. First, I want to talk about the fact that I had to I had to spend some time in Washington to understand that there's a distinction between Vancouver, Washington, and Vancouver, British Columbia. Do you like I don't I I don't know how many people like dismiss that, especially if they're not from that area or haven't spent any time there. I learned because I went to the Mount St. Helens Memorial. And they and they actually like explained that the guy on the radio when it blew who says Vancouver, Vancouver, this is it. Like he wasn't they explained he wasn't talking about across the river or whatever it is, he was talking about Vancouver, Washington, and I was like, Oh, okay, history.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I know it's funny because when we gig and we tour around the US, and you know, the moment we say I've learned to say Vancouver, Washington, like the whole fucking shebang. Yeah, yeah, because every time we say we're from Vancouver, and everyone's like, Oh, we love Canada, and I'm like, but I known the other Vancouver. So I was joking for the longest time with the guys, like, we need to get a shirt that says we're from Vancouver on one side, and then the other side says the other Vancouver.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I just think if if you ever decided to go the core route, too. I just always thought that that would be a solid call out for a breakdown. Vancouver, Vancouver, this is it. That could be I like I'm like, I just want somebody to do it. I want somebody to do it because I'm like, okay, I'll keep that in mind. That story is so fascinating to me. And I I want to hear more about the strategy too. We talked a little bit about this just now. You're you're seeing what everybody else in the industry is doing, you're watching other bands, you're talking about upping your marketing and your social media game. So, what are those conversations like right now?
SPEAKER_02Just in the last couple years, we've started to really hone in on that, and that just took a lot of us just talking to others in the industry, talking to like, you know, the few successful musicians that we maybe have access to, you know, understanding where to funnel our money, because obviously we're not making money, not really, you know. I mean, we're still pouring money into things like this, and so understanding like how to plug that hole so it's more sustainable long term, you know, understanding what pieces each band member can take charge of and really make their own and how to communicate effectively between, you know, East Coast and West Coast, and being more selective about our, you know, local shows that we do agree to do, or what we're asking for for compensation, uh, and really stepping up our online game, you know what I mean? Like trying to get more consistent with posting and videos and pre-release strategies, and it's just um it's there's so many, and it really just depends on like how serious you guys are about trying to grow your brand. I mean, Spirit Box is a great example, okay? Because I love Spirit Box, but people were like, where the hell did Spirit Box come from? And it's like, no, no, no. They this was not a coincidence, they did not just drop out of the fucking sky one day and land on Sirius XM and metal injection and blow up to the moon and back. No, no, no. They were all seasoned musicians prior to them creating Spirit Box, and what they wanted to do was they were they wanted to put together a stellar management team and then spend two years during COVID just growing their online marketing space, growing their fan base, really endearing people to them, being accessible to them. And then when they first get their first appearance, they're fucking huge and they just go through the roof. They didn't even do any gigs for the first two years because it was 2019, 20, 20, 21. I mean, that's the kind of strategy that we look at and we go, like, because we we kind of watch what everybody does, you know, what works for them or doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00I feel like Castle Rat is kind of the latest victim of all that talk, so to speak. They're they're the ones, and and to me, I feel the same way about them. I'm like, well, wait a second. No, they've been around a hot minute, they've been doing their thing in New York for a hot minute. You're we're hearing about them now because they're the ones that are playing up the theatrical aspect, which we're not seeing a lot of until then, right now, modern day. I mean, we're who else has really been doing it consistently, other than like maybe slipknot, maybe KISS. I'm just throwing out some other names, like they're the ones that are still flying the theatrical flag now, and that's why we're talking about them now, and they've always done this. That's that they're not this industry plant that like came out of nowhere. And I I laughed when I heard that. Yeah, I'm like, that's not what you want to do if you're trying to like make it in the industry is be a rat themed doom metal band. Like, who you know, only a select audience is gonna latch onto that. Exactly. But it's that yeah, what used to be the norm became not the norm, and now they're bringing it back, and now everybody's excited that it's back. That's where I feel like we've landed on it. Yeah, totally completely agree. Agreed, agreed.
SPEAKER_02So putting putting what may that actually links together with come what may, because come what may is actually a song about the industry.
SPEAKER_00Elaborate in what ways? Because I I was kind of distracted by the outfits in the video, and I was like, I want that in my closet. So please explain.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. No, so come what may, um, it starts with uh uh talking about wanting to pull like the most epic dream out of the sky and make it your own and grow it and really feed it. But in order to do that, you have to shit all over everything else in your life to truly get past all of the red tape and learn the secrets of what actually makes musicians successful in this day and age. Um, and the second verse kind of goes into that too, where you know, a lot of people are just looking for the glory, the glory of it. Um, and they're not thinking about like long-term planning, or they're not thinking about like, because for all of us, family comes first. So it's a really difficult thing to juggle our personal lives and still keep this life, this other life alive, right? And that takes a toll on our families as well, not just ourselves. So uh, you know, a lot of that saw a lot of that starts in that song where we're talking about wanting the glory, wanting the dream, but understanding that there's a there's a serious cost, depending on how serious you want to be as a musician.
SPEAKER_00Right. I kind of took from the end, we just said fuck it, right? Period. I that's that's what essentially what I took it is you have to make a choice. You make the conscious choice to put the fear aside because let's not get it twisted. We're all nervous, we're all anxious, we don't know how things are gonna play out, but you make a conscious choice to at least put that to us the to the side to accomplish whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish and do whatever it is you're trying to do.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. You nailed it. Um, because and then metaphorically, in the the chorus of the song, you know, fuck it. It's really not just about like this is the gamble that we choose to take, but also we got the opportunity to record that song, this album, this whole album with Ulrich, right as I was finding out that I had to relocate with the family. Oh what a dichotomy! What a dichotomy. And I remember sitting, and and I won't get too detailed because I like to keep some of that private, but on top of that, I was actually sitting in a children's hospital writing the lyrics out to those songs. So I was sitting at the crossroads of all of those things, and so were the guys, right? Because like what the implication was, like if I leave, like you know, we always said, like, how do bands do that? We don't know how they and so there was a moment that we all had to say, look, we we choose to do this right now, knowing it could be all for nothing. It could just flop on its face, it we could just dissolve, like our our ties could dissolve, whatever the case is. Like, we realize it's a huge gamble and it's already a gamble pursuing this in the industry. So that's why that's where fuck it came from.
SPEAKER_00And there's no better verbiage for it. That that is how it feels. But tell me, I I definitely want to talk about working with Ulrich too, of course. On this, what was his initial reaction when you bring Come What May to his studio?
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, let me tell you, like he's how do I describe he is it is a true treat to be around Ulrich because he's so down to earth, it's insane. Like, I thought he was punking us a little bit when we first met him and stuff outside of the whiskey, and he was just so down to earth, and it was like a one in a million shot that he would even want to work with us. We just happened to know someone who knew him, and we were like, Hey, we're gonna be in LA playing at the whiskey. Would you by chance want to come see us? We'll give you a ticket. We love the deaf tones, we love your work. Yeah, and uh it was very we I made fun of our drummer because he was the one that was pushing for it. I was like, There's no way, you know, and then dude messages us back and is like, yeah, actually, that sounds fun.
SPEAKER_00How often, how often does somebody have the balls to ask? If I'm thinking about it from his perspective, this person's coming to me asking it all. I'm like, Oh, all right, well, they do have some consent. Let me see what this is all about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and what's funny, and he's probably gonna see this later and laugh at me, but what's funny is like I you know, I'm that I'm I'm so self-deprecating. Like, I'm always like, he's not gonna laugh, like, why would he want to hear me, my stupid boy? You know, that's all the negative self-talk going in my head, and he was just so cool and like made me feel at ease like the entire time. And when when he started leading us for like trying to help us develop some of the songs that we had that were raw, he was a huge, he had a huge influence in sort of how we structured that song. So I I accredit that to him for sure. He's he's not gonna take the credit, but yeah, I mean, working with him was a real treat. And uh he I thought he was gonna hate it all, of course. I always think that, and then he he actually loved it all, and I mean, obviously, because he could work with anyone, right?
SPEAKER_00I mean, he could work with any artist at this point or nobody's so um and how different really is your sound versus any other people he's worked with?
SPEAKER_02Eh, not really, it's in the same wheelhouse, yes, yes, and yet he's still I like for whatever reason, he I mean he just had so much fun produ- I mean, I'm sure he was ready to kill most of us at some point, but we we all had such a fucking spiritual fucking experience doing this that it sounds so stupid. It sounds exactly like somebody would say sitting in front of LA at like a fucking we had a spiritual experience. We made this album together, but no, seriously, it was next level, it was a next level experience, and I'm so grateful we we got to have it.
SPEAKER_00If nothing else, wherever this goes, you're gonna remember that forever, and that's why I believe like absolutely if if an opportunity knocks, I will open the door, I will open the door and at least explore what's happening. And it's but it's hard to do that when you're going through a lot and you're trying to stay clear-headed. Some of us, I I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for running cold specifically, and specifically the lyric that says, Don't let the hurt decide. Because if I had heard that a while ago, I would have been like, This is so I just I think it's very profound and it puts a lot in perspective when you are in the middle of those tough moments and when you are in the middle of those like make or break it decision times, those hard times, those tough times. So, thank you for writing that as somebody that does deal with depression or anxiety from time to time. Yeah. Are you seeing that maybe this is a theme beautiful skeletons could run with? They're just this overcoming that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02I mean, when I started looking at like all of the lyrics together, because I generally don't sit down and look at all the lyrics together as a big picture for whatever reason, although I've I've heard of people doing that. I'm not that organized. Um, but when we were really sitting down and like I was looking at making the graphics for the vinyl, I wanted to pull like central themes from each song, kind of give them each a symbol and do the graphics around that. And I realized that very same thing. You just like was like, oh, a lot of this is about overcoming, like when I stop and think about it in the most simplistic terms, right? Um, and I guess that's kind of a theme with the band, to be honest. We um we all are just regular normal people like everybody else. And um a lot of our content is really about overcoming, overcoming everyday obstacles. Like what can we tell you that you might relate to just like you had just expressed there? Like that, you know, maybe a couple words that touch you in some way would make a difference in your life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, don't let the hurt decide. I'm like, man, okay, I'm not gonna let this particular thing win today. Maybe I'll give it an hour, maybe I'll give it like 10 minutes, but is it gonna give it my whole day? No, and sometimes when you feel like you're just constantly running into those moments one after the other, after the other after the other, yeah, I see how somebody falls into that pit. I do. I I I I completely get it. Tell me about the moment that you fell in love with music.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. Uh okay. I would have to say when I was four, uh, I went with my mom to her piano lessons. Oh, and she took piano lessons in a store that sold pianos. So what she would do is she'd take me with her, and like they were private lessons, so the store would close, and she'd he and the owner were really good friends, and he'd be like, Oh, yeah, go right, go right ahead and bang away on all the pianos you want. That is my first like clear memory of music, and that definitely shaped me. I remember just going to every I don't even know how he was able to ignore now that I'm an adult and I've had kids, I'm like, How would you have stood that? But I went to every single freaking piano in that place and like you know, pressed every I was in love immediately, and from then on I was a piano player, and that was like my gateway music instrument. Like everything came after that. That was my clearest memory.
SPEAKER_00I've heard that that's the instrument that does become the foundation. I'm I'm not a musician, but I've heard from other musicians that like that's the one. If you really want to learn how to do music and how to stick with it and those basics and fundamentals, piano is where to start. Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02I I do, I do agree with that. Um, I've I personally started with piano, and I know so many that did. I, you know, I was a multi-instrumentalist now. I mostly focus on on just vocals, but I think piano is a great starting point. But hell, I mean, if you can get your your kid or your teen to go to any kind of instrument lesson consistently and then encourage whatever like passion they have about it. Yeah, yeah, I I would encourage anybody to do that with their kids for any instrument, any instrument. I mean, you see babies or kids toddlers and you hand them like a like stupid little rinky dinks noisy pianos or it light their face lights up. We're programmed to like that. We our bodies crave that that differentness and the ability to create something yourself, you know.
SPEAKER_00We want to create and we want to interact with something, whether it's an instrument or whether it's another human. And I I love the communal aspects that you guys are incorporating right now because I was looking at what you're doing, and I love the idea of a fan photo project for the fan. To get involved for the upcoming album. You're doing a collage for anybody that doesn't know. And you're gonna yeah, uh take a look at what they're submitting and then turn that into something for the album. Whose idea was that? That's great.
SPEAKER_02That's mine, but let me just tell you it it spawned because my drummer and I were arguing about what would what would go inside the CD and all of that. Oh, so it's we don't want to decide, let's let them decide.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Ultimately, TLDR, we just couldn't agree. And I was like, you know what? Maybe we let everybody else decide.
SPEAKER_00So they submit a photo, they have fun with it, but that's kind of genius too, because there you go, you've now you have another element of connection here.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and I gotta tell you, like when we were first doing the music videos for the um for the album, like all of them, and I was talking about wanting to get everybody who was local to to come down for like one hour and do a giant drone crowd shot of like anyone who wanted to come. And I just couldn't, I didn't have enough time to make true arrangements for it, so it fell through. But I'm telling you, next album that is freaking happening because I thought that would be so fucking tight. Everybody gets like a 30-second spot of just like giving us horns or whatever they want in that moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let it let everybody know that this thing is building, and as Beautiful Skeletons progresses, how else do you think fans could get involved in the future, or how do you envision them maybe getting involved in the future?
SPEAKER_02I would love to see people like giving us unique merch suggestions. I love the idea of like fan-powered merch, you know? Me too. Like, why are we still doing the baseball cap and the t-shirt? I'm like, some of that is staples, right? But like I feel like let's get creative with it. Did you know the Deftones did this cool little magnet? It's about this big, and it has a little audio. So, and then it comes with these little teeny magnet discs you can pop in and out. If you if you're not aware of what it is, look it up. It is the cutest freaking thing I've ever seen. And the moment I ran across it on TikTok, I was like, fucking genius. That's a great idea. You know, we need shit like that. I love to hear suggestions from people.
SPEAKER_00We do, and sometimes that like there's happy accidents along the way, too. It's kind of what happened with Deft Tones and that iconic album cover. That's a that was a girl that they were partying with that night. Period. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02I I didn't even know that.
SPEAKER_00She just happened to be there, just happened to be there. I love happy accident moments like that too. But no, I would love to see, I do love when bands ask for artwork submissions, especially in a world where we're relying on AI more and more and more. It is nice to see a break from that and get like you know, it to get at artists doing what they do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I gotta tell you, I every other band that I've ever connected with that does like um merch and fan, fan-powered merch, that kind of thing. Some of the most talented freaking people pop up, and you're like, What? You like my music? You should be a famous artist right now. We've had people do some really cool stuff for us. I was shocked. I was like, Oh my god, I'm gonna frame this.
SPEAKER_00This is going on a wall. Or you're going on payroll, like your next album. Like, that's just how it's gonna be.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Of course, all of this is leading up to the debut, Paul Slime Scar, full-length album coming in September. What I mean, Ulrich is a pretty exciting part of this, but what is uh any anything else exciting that comes to mind in the making of this album?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um, I gotta say that being as we were all sort of on the verge of like a potential crisis, the vibe and the energy that we poured into this was very much a fuck it, like this is the last hurrah, YOLO kind of moment. And that flavored it in a way that I don't know that we'll ever be able to recreate.
SPEAKER_00Do you hear it when you listen back to what you've done? You hear that you guys feeling that way.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, 100%. And it's really weird because you know, as we prepare for the pre-release of a lot of these songs, you know, just and here we go, I'm I'm gonna pull the cover back a little bit, the curtain back for it so you can see the man behind the curtain. But when you're in an indie band promoting your own work, um, you know, knowing what the SEO content is, so knowing what the key phrases, hashtags, all of those things are so important because if you don't know this, you know, for those of you listening, and you probably do, but if you don't know this, it's super important for all of those little hashtags and words and catchphrases and tags to be accurate, to pull in potential users, or like put you in a place in the algorithm where you get more reception. And one of the things I kept seeing as it was generating these tags was emotional rock. And I remember getting so fucking annoyed. For whatever reason, I got, I was like, what do you mean, emotional rock? Like, what are you saying? I'm a sissy, you know, like I was kind of upset, and then I realized, like, no, it's literally just categorizing it as that because it is that. Then it kind of hit me like, okay, because I remember when we first talked to Ulrich after he'd seen us play, he was asking us what we would classify ourselves as genre-wise, right? And like this is a hard one for a lot of bands who do any kind of like cross-cross genre or genre blurring, right? Because you want to say like the the right one, but like where other people hear it, you they might classify you as something else. I'm always interested to hear what other people think we sound like, so really listening. And he goes, uh, I would consider it vibey. I see, and I was like, vibe, and I kind of looked at the guys and I was like, What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00Like it was like a coworker. Emotive is the word that comes to mind for me.
SPEAKER_02That that's how I would explain vibey, exactly, but I just would in that moment, I was like, I had never heard vibe, like vibe metal, vibe, vibey rock. So, like after we left the conversation, I remember like looking it up because I was like, What the fuck is vibe metal? And you know, AIC comes up, Deft Tons comes up, and I was like, Oh, I see what he's saying, you know, it took me a second, but I got it eventually. And but yeah, that just lends to the whole emotional rock, like it's just it's really based on life, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all of this just sounds like uh yeah, I mean, yes, SEO is part of it, and all of this just sounds like learning how to work with the internet instead of against it, fight against it, really, really. I mean, we we yeah, we are having a lot of conversations about AI right now. There is a lot of talk about what the appropriate use of it is, and what the appropriate use of it is not, and that's still a conversation to be had. I I think we kind of embrace to generally, I think we embrace the whole thing way too quickly, but it that is kind of what we do with technology. Yeah, just as a blanket, like why would I not? You know, full send. It you know, and now we're now we're kind of walking back some of that, rightfully so. But I I I don't think we should be so opposed to at least learning and attempting to learn how to work with what what uh what's in the world and and what we have to interact with on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_02100%. And if you're gonna support yourself as an indie artist and you want to do it's DIY, it ex yeah, you have to, you have to understand how it works. Um, and it's cool if you don't want to and you're just fine where you're at, that's totally fine. But I hear other musicians talk about like, well, how'd you how'd you guys do that? Like, you know, what how do you tell me your secrets? And I'm like, they're not secrets, Google them, they're all over the fucking place, guys. You just have to be consistent about it.
SPEAKER_00It's a word hours, putting in the hours, put in the work, right?
SPEAKER_02So, I mean, it just really all depends on the on the band's goals and stuff, but like if you're gonna try and operate um from afar like this, one of the best strategies, at least that we've encountered so far, is just really just like making sure we all understand what we're good at and what we're bad at, so we can get the right people to cover the right things and then work on you know outsourcing the other things. If you're gonna spend money for things like, you know, really cool costume or like a really fucking sick ban or whatever, you should spend this the same kind of money on marketing. I really think for some reason that's just not doesn't seem to be as prevalent as a thought with a lot of indie musicians I've talked to. I'm like, what are you guys doing for marketing? Like pre-release, what kind of money are you are you putting into ads? Like those things are important if you're trying to just you know do something a little bit different and get get going in a different place. You have to wait because it is what it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, you have to ask yourself, okay, where do I need the most help? And that's that's where I'm gonna put financial resources toward because I I could do most of this on my own, but maybe I'm I'm maybe I'm better at one thing than another. So then that's the spot where you say, Okay, this is where I need to invest a little bit more in, because this is gonna or sometimes it's a make my life easier decision, too, to be honest. Like, look, I know I know this is what I want to do, and this is what makes me happy. If your case, maybe someday you might say, you know what, I just want to focus on the vocals. That's that's what I want, right? Yeah, I only want to do that, I only want to do that, and I just want to make sure that I'm getting my lessons in and sounding great, yeah, taking care of my voice. Well, great, exactly. But but I'm sure someday you'd be love to maybe hire someone to take care of the other stuff that you spend time exactly. It's just it's all it's it's it's like we've been saying the whole episode, it's it's a conscious choice, everything is a choice and risk assessment. So, given that, uh is there anything that surprised you? Because correct me if I'm wrong, this is this is the first album full length that you guys have done.
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, yeah, we've done a bunch of like EPs up until this point because all we were really truly able to afford at the time, and actually, I'm really glad we didn't try to do a full-length album with anybody else leading up to this.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, I mean what a way to start, but like really what what a way who better to do it with too than Ulrich Wilde. But it just uh there's gotta be conversations in this process because you're doing something for the very first time. There's constant risk assessment there too, there's constant decision making there too. So, what was the most surprising thing that you maybe encountered while making this album?
SPEAKER_02Um our flexibility in what we were willing to finalize in the songs, right? That to that to me always takes us so long for us to all argue over like where that bridge should go, should it be different, longer, shorter, you know. We all have different influences and we all think of song structures differently. And uh we were still writing them leading up to going to the studio, and then as we were in the studio, we were still changing them down to the wire, and um normally something like that would wig us all out like so bad that we probably couldn't operate because we're such perfectionists, but in this case, we were really like pulling deep to be as flexible as possible because obviously we want to listen to Ulrich's suggestions, so even if we just finalize this version and he's got a suggestion for something else, I'm like, no, we need to try that. I don't care if we just memorize the other one, and normally that would create great amounts of conflict with the rest of us, um, especially our drummer who has like totally OCD about that kind of stuff, but we were all incredibly flexible, and God, I'm so glad that we were because the final product is like unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00Is that the secret to good collaboration is flexibility? Yeah, just just just being open to at the very least, hear me out.
SPEAKER_02It's it's a hear me out situation, being open to that, totally, and but you just have the added stress of like okay, studio time to studio time. This was expensive. And you know, you're like, God, I'm gonna I hope I'm not wasting time. Like, we all kind of think of it that way because we we don't we recorded this entire thing in less than three weeks. I mean, people I don't even know. There are other EPs we've spent longer recording, so for us to shit this out in 30 days. I mean, insane. And don't get me started about the fact that we were staying at the whiskey, the apartments behind the whiskey, you know, lemmies.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. So there's that's a playground. A playground.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, yeah. Okay. Hold on, haunted.
SPEAKER_00We heard we heard haunted. We we need okay, paranormal stories, paranormal stories. Let's go, because I'm all ears.
SPEAKER_02Okay, okay. We've stayed in that place twice now because Mike is awesome, and we end up staying there. The first time, uh, I had weird vibes, but like nothing went too crazy, and we were only there for a weekend, so I didn't really get when we came back. We stayed for a month, okay? And we'd rented both the upstairs and the downstairs because there wasn't enough space upstairs for all of us, so we got the bottom two. So we're in there, and I'm down in that apartment with my bass player. He's got the bedroom, I've got the couch because I fit on the couch and that's where I like to be.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02And in the middle of the night, I'm hearing doors and getting this weird ass feeling, right? And I'm like, Normally I ignore that shit because I'm just trying to go to bed. Well, when things start moving, I'm like, okay, that's too much. My bass player comes running out of his room in his freaking like boxers. He's like, Oh my god, what happened? He goes, You didn't hear that? I'm like, Yeah, I've been hearing shit all night, but what what what happened? He goes, My closet literally opened in front of my eyes. I said, What the fuck? And it slammed shut.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, So wait, is that the magic word to like get it to stop then? Is that the magic phrase?
SPEAKER_02I was like, uh, okay. So we decided we were gonna consolidate upstairs, right? So we all move upstairs. I'm like, I'm still on the couch. So he gets one of the rooms, and the guys end up bunking in one room, and Huey gets one room, and in the middle of the night, like there's shit going on. I mean, like the phone was ringing, there's nobody on the line, like the just insane shit. And I'm like, oh my god, it's up here too, right? I'm more annoyed more than anything because I am fucking tired. This is like the first sight. I'm like, this is bullshit, we're gonna endure this for 30 days. I was like supernaturally pissed. I was walking around going, fuck you guys, like this is not cool. You know, we're kind of recording, like giving this whole diatribe and things. And the whole time that we were there, the craziest shit was happening. In fact, I woke up one night and my bass player's staring at me, praying. I'm like, Jason, what the hell are you doing?
SPEAKER_00He goes, He was not aware of this.
SPEAKER_02I was not aware. I literally woke up my eyes and he's sitting there praying. And I'm like, what is going on? He's like, uh, your foot has been dragging upwards since you fell asleep, and I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00And I don't know what to do. Oh my lord. Wait, so you so you hear him praying, but it's not because of possession, it's just because he's trying to look out for you.
SPEAKER_02Because he thinks that I'm gonna get drugged off the bed by this thing. I had felt it, but again, I was fucking annoyed. I was like, fucking whatever. Like I'd shake away. Wow.
SPEAKER_00What I was trying to go to bed. There's a lot of activity, a lot happening. My goodness. Had you ever experienced anything like this before? Is this your first time?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I've had other experiences, not this much, because let me tell you, um, it would wake me up in the middle of the night, whatever this was, would wake me up in the middle of the night and would fill my head with lyrics.
SPEAKER_00I rewrote maybe you found a musician, but then they should have learned that you wanted to get some sleep.
SPEAKER_02Right. I was like, but this is bullshit though. Like, are you trying to keep me at a certain level of insomnia so I sound like desperate in my voice or something? Like it was the craziest thing. I've never gone through anything like that, and I understand that probably nobody outside of this believes me, but like I'm telling you, like, there's no reason to make this kind of shit up. It filled my head with lyrics, and I changed most of the lyrics to the songs the night before I put vocals down for them.
SPEAKER_00Well, did you feel like they were better?
SPEAKER_02Yes, you did 100%. Okay, then it worked out. Yeah, yeah, it did. It did, and it was funny because the guys were like, That is a you know, I don't know what's happening to you. They're all like swirling around her making her life felt. It's fucked. I don't know what it was.
SPEAKER_00It's weird. Try to communicate, try to say something. I mean, that's honestly not the first, it's not the first haunted story I've heard about that area. Like, that's it. I've I've heard other ones too, but I that a lot of just just general people say people say things like, Oh, yeah, Lebby's ghost was here the other night, things like that, but yeah, they're just they're stories, they're stories. Yeah, I'm entertained by them regardless. I'll listen, I'll always give it a minute. But you know, yeah, I don't I don't I don't know that I believe in like full-blown apparitions, but do I absolutely believe in sonically proven, scientifically proven residual energy that sometimes like expresses itself through the walls and stuff that's like trapped there? Yes, I do. I I believe that that could very well be some of what's going on. Who knows? A lot of stuff happened in that area. We know this, that's documented. Oh, yeah, so yeah, yeah. I I mean, is there something that's like circulating sonically somehow? Just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Who knows? It's possible. I'm not I'm not gonna say it didn't happen. Am I gonna say it's not ghosts? No, because that's not fun. I mean, there is a part of me that wants to think that maybe that's also possible too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I mean, either way, whether it was the voices in my head, which there are so many, or actual ghosts in that area, it it inspired me, possessed me, filled me, injected me with the creativity that spawned this massive last minute lyrical change, which I don't do that normally. I'm I don't do that last minute at a studio. So I whatever it was, it worked out really well, and it made for a very unique how this album was made story that I think most people are gonna be like, she's fucking crazy, crazy or not, they can decide, they can stay there and they can experience it for themselves.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yep, exactly if you dare, exactly. Yep. What do you want people to feel when they hear this album?
SPEAKER_02Man, I want them to understand that they are not alone, all of us experience these different levels of life, and um, as much as that we can make so many good, wonderful, sad ballads about how our pain makes us feel, we can make a lot of songs about how we got through it too, you know. I kind of look at it as a circle for this album because you know, we call it pulse line scar, and I we came up with that when we were writing for the studio, and uh we just think of it like we're all gonna have this heartbeat. Everything is connected by this thin heartbeat, and we just have we all experience different peaks, but it's the same one. And um, when it when it's all over, it leaves a scar, regardless of the experience. So that's kind of the thought behind the album name. So I hope people find meaning in it, just like you found meaning in running cold, you know. This is just I hope that every song has its person that it's meant to influence, and maybe people find that it helps them. That would be awesome, or they just jam out to it in the middle of traffic because it's they'd rather do that than kill somebody. Like that works too, though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's all right if it haunts them a little bit. We're fine with that. Exactly, exactly. We're fine with that because those are good voices. That those are good, those are good vibes. Those that's good energy. Well, this entire episode has been amazing vibes for me. Tina, thank you so much for spending some time with me. Cannot wait for Pulse Light Scar coming in September. I uh wish you the best of luck with it. Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much, Val and thanks for having us on, and we really appreciate your time. You guys rock.
SPEAKER_00This conversation was so fun. I mean, we went we went from music industry challenges to hauntings while trying to make a record. We went everywhere this episode, and I love it when an episode can do that because that's life, that's real, that happens. Sometimes things work out that way. And like Tina and I were saying and agreed on, everything is a conscious choice. Okay? Sometimes the choices that you're presented with are not fantastic, sometimes they suck. But at the end of the day, you make one and you hope it's the best one, and you try your hardest. You try to do what it is that you're trying to do, but never stop overcoming and never stop searching for what you're searching for, living out things the way you want to be doing them, period. Do your best, always. That's what I'm taking from this episode. And by the way, if you want more beautiful skeletons, there's plenty out already, and there is more on the way. Running cold's out, so is come what may. The video for Come What May is also out, so you can listen to those. And we do still have the full-length album on the way. I mean, put it on the calendars. All those details are coming very soon. Pulse Line Scar is what it's called from beautiful skeletons. I'll give you the show notes. Just stay plugged in on their socials because that's where I'm sure you're gonna get the most up-to-date information immediately. So plug in on those. I'll give you the links in the show notes, and of course, at valclinehands.com, where we recap every episode of Vigorously. Definitely once with a guest for sure. You can always go back to the blog and check out anything that you might have missed. Thanks for joining me on this one. It was fun. Bye!