The B Team Podcast
Talking all things Business, Bentonville, and Bourbon. Hosted by Josh Saffran, Matt Marrs, and Rob Nelson. New episodes every Thursday!
The B Team Podcast
Ep. 56 - The Art of Self-Defense with Inferno Martial Arts
From teaching kids to defend themselves against potential threats to helping law enforcement officers handle tense situations more effectively, martial arts training carries profound benefits that extend far beyond the mat.
Kaleb, founder of Inferno Martial Arts, joins the B-Team Podcast to share his remarkable journey from passionate practitioner to successful business owner. What started in 2003 as training sessions in a literal tool shed has blossomed into five thriving locations across Northwest Arkansas, serving everyone from toddlers to senior citizens.
The conversation explores the careful balance of teaching potentially dangerous skills while instilling the responsibility that must accompany them. For children, martial arts creates valuable muscle memory for high-stress situations. When someone attempts to pin them down, they don't freeze with fear - they've practiced escaping similar positions hundreds of times in a controlled environment. This preparation addresses a critical gap in traditional safety education.
For adults, martial arts offers physical fitness coupled with mental engagement and community. Jiu-jitsu has become particularly popular among older demographics because of its lower impact on the body while still providing effective self-defense training. The "executive class" at Inferno demonstrates this appeal, attracting professionals in their 40s, 50s, and beyond.
The most compelling insights come when Kaleb breaks down fundamental self-defense principles everyone should know: turn your hips toward danger, target vulnerable areas like eyes and throat, and understand that controlled training creates cooler, calmer responses to threat. His light-hearted "Dragon" story - about an overly confident newcomer learning humility - perfectly illustrates why proper training matters.
Whether you're considering martial arts for your children, yourself, or simply curious about effective self-defense, this episode delivers practical wisdom with entertaining stories from the mat. Ready to learn how to protect yourself and move toward challenges rather than away from them? This conversation is your perfect starting point.
Welcome to the B-Team Podcast. I am your host, josh Saffron, with my co-host, matt Morris and our permanent guest Rob Nelson. We're here every week to talk to you about all things Bentonville, bourbon and business the B-Team Podcast. Be here and business the B-Team Podcast. Be here. Welcome to the B-Team Podcast. I'm your host, josh Safran, with my co-host, matt Morris and our permanent guest.
Speaker 2:Hey, I made it today, rob Nelson.
Speaker 1:I was like the texts were blowing up this morning. I thought you were in Guatemala.
Speaker 2:Peru. We can't have a text thread without busting each other's balls. I really thought he was in Miami. I was excited. I think he just likes the drama. I think he was sitting at home on his couch.
Speaker 1:When did your flight land?
Speaker 2:About 10 to 1. Yesterday Today. Oh, so you've been home all day. Yeah, I mean, matt and I are about to go to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not sure if you work. I mean but that to come in and then you stroll in, we're like oh, bobby's here, I had to bring the burby glasses.
Speaker 2:I actually brought some just in case.
Speaker 1:I love it well, we're here every thursday for all things bentonville, business and bourbon, and today we have caleb in the jiu jitsu karate mma authority at northwest the guy it's called the inferno, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I don't know if it's the Inferno, but Inferno martial arts, inferno martial arts yeah, it can be the Inferno, depending on what day you show up and how hard practice is. So definitely, and where are you located? We actually have five locations, so we're in Bittenville, bella Vista, springdale and then Silo and Rogers Do in Rogers Do that one more time. Yeah, that's a lot. So we got Biddenville, which is the main headquarters. Where's that at? It's on 102.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's over on 14th Street, right across from the new home office.
Speaker 3:Oh, I like that, yeah. And then we also have one in Rogers that's over by Casano's on Pleasant Grove, okay. And then we got bella vista and silent spring and they're all yours. I created an ownership group about a year ago. This is a lot of my senior instructors, a lot of guys that matt knows. We kind of came here uh together as a group and we started expanding it.
Speaker 3:We kind of brought them into it. So now we have an owner's group that kind of owns all of them, and so that way it's a bigger idea than just one guy we have a lot of bella Vista followers, oh we're running some harps, yeah, and it's actually yeah. If they're going to go to Bella Vista, they better go quickly, because Bella Vista was way more popular than I expected.
Speaker 1:Well, the old people have to know how to self-protect. They've got to go jack some fools up Judo chalks.
Speaker 2:If you haven't noticed, lately the demographic has changed in Bella Vista.
Speaker 1:It has, it definitely has. It's no longer 16 up.
Speaker 2:It's what? 15 up I would say it's probably even lower than that Really.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know the people that have been there. I mean, like our youth program blew up so fast we opened it barely a year ago and within two months, like I mean, classes were full, with the kids especially. That's awesome. But there's also not a lot of stuff in bellavista to do as a family because there's a real estate problem up there. There's not a lot of commercial space, like yeah, there's nowhere to go, like it took us forever to find a location and then, luckily, that spot next to harps opened up and I mean it. Just it was a fiasco.
Speaker 1:So but now I see why. Yeah, yeah, and matt trains with you. Oh, he was my head coach for like. So yeah, I mean the kids, or how do you know, matt?
Speaker 3:yeah. So matt has had the kids in the program for a long time and so they. They grew up with our program there in pittendale and so you know you get to be buddies and hanging out and, you know, beating the kids up it's a good time.
Speaker 2:So that's all I mean. It's a, it's a good. I mean and I know everyone knows this but it's, it's a good place for your kids to grow up because it's like you said, it's a family, it's a family event that you go to, and it's a lot of work for the parents, as all of these schools are.
Speaker 2:But girls, you know, they learn. They learn not to be like. I think for a dad it's a big deal, because they learn that if someone tries to pin them down like, most of the things they teach are how to get away from someone at that level. So I don't know. We thought it was a great program. We were just glad to have you come on.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, no man, I miss the girls because, you know, because like those Mars kids, they're good kids and when it came time to go, like man, they had no problem hitting the gas, because as the kids go through the belts, like there's a progression, and so with the lower belts it's a little bit lower key, you know, and like you do the drill and you show them the things. But when you kind of get up in the advanced ranks, when you've been there five or six years, it gets a little bit more saucy and that's one thing that, yeah, the Mars girls, when it was time to get saucy, they were down.
Speaker 1:Now, did Carrie do any of this training? I can see her just throwing some elbows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she was a sideline coach. She kept chipping her ankles.
Speaker 2:I tried to get involved because you know me being, I'm thrifty, I'm going to say thrifty and then cheap.
Speaker 2:And I know you know about this. So I, they have these, what's it called, these sticks. I know he knows because he probably has a picture. He tells so, yeah, they have to buy these. They get to a certain level and have weapons that they practice with and I was like, oh, I could make one of these out of out of stick, bring some closet and then sell them. So I made each of the kids on that. Jaylen came over after practice. He's like matt, they're gonna get splinters. Everyone's gonna get splinters in their hands from these how much are these rods?
Speaker 1:like eight bucks each, literally eight hours is that today's price or what?
Speaker 2:he's probably so, which means it was like and I know carrie and the girls were just like trying to look the other way and I was like, I mean, I mean, that's for you there is some logic.
Speaker 3:Like the splinters are not like inconvenient splinters, you know, like oh, I got one in my hand like so a collie stick is made out of, which is a fibrous wood. It's very flexible, it will not break. So when you're swinging sticks at each other, whacking sticks, and you hit one that's a piece of hardwood, that eight or twelve inch piece will break off that stick and fly across the room and stick in somebody's eye socket, like it doesn't. It's so incredibly dangerous. And I know this because when we were younger and we were broke kids back in clarksonville, me and my buddy mike, oh my god we were like oh man, no, we can make some of these.
Speaker 1:And that lasted about so, caleb, walk me through when you go over to matt. Is it like hey, jack, yes, or is it like that?
Speaker 2:I like. I felt like I was getting in trouble. He's like did you come with my office.
Speaker 3:It was great once they go like. It was one that was like hang in, I mail you, but it's really it's really bad. I'm trying to keep it low-key because it's like I. I get it man like, because, like I said, me and mike put same stuff but even better, I was hoping you'd say they're like five thousand dollars000.
Speaker 1:These are custom-made, shipped in from Taiwan.
Speaker 3:No, it's $8. They're $8, but I appreciated his effort, you know. Then I was like yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:But I'm not wearing it.
Speaker 3:I'm like you know, if you keep one of those, they're great to have in the car. So when you do break it, it's pokey, then it's functional, but in the gym it's amazing. It's such a good story. That's the thing, is that?
Speaker 2:a surprise? No, there's no surprise.
Speaker 1:He probably had to sell them too for $12 on top of it.
Speaker 3:He's like I can supply it. That's amazing. It's a Whippysack, Blacker painted, you know, all customized out, you know wood trim it.
Speaker 2:but yeah, that was uh I didn't know if you remembered that oh yeah, well, there's a few of those.
Speaker 3:There's a few of those, but from from more specifically, because it's like he did say bucks man like, I got you. If it's not like it is, you're in trouble, I got you, don't worry like we're good.
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah, don't let him fool you, believe me, don't let him fool you. So like of all of the let him fool you so like of all of the different services that you offer in different classes, like walk us through the different things that you can teach folks.
Speaker 3:So we do different age groups first of all. So like we start at age, we do ages three and four at a couple of locations, you know, because that's like herding for you some some patience. Yeah, we line them up and, uh, you know, left for right, getting straight lines, but we just start teaching the kids how to play with each other and with an instructor to do martial arts, you know, which is kind of fun, you know. So there's not really, they're not in contact, nothing like that, just so that way, when they hit ages five through seven because that's a different age group called our little ninjas um, we changed the curriculum a little bit so then now're familiar and so they learn a little bit more, you know, do a little bit more of the jiu-jitsu and a little bit more of the kickboxing partners. And then our 8 to 12-year-old group. They graduate into the warrior group. So the curriculum changes again in the teenager program. So it kind of progresses through the ages for the kids and with the adults we split it basically up into striking and grappling, so they can do kickboxing classes or they can do jiu-jitsu or they can do both. And then we got some of the young athletes that you know want mma fighters that want to go to the ufc, things of that nature, and so those guys are kind of doing you know that program of blending everything together and do fighting practices and but most everybody is like they want to learn some self-defense, they want to have a good time.
Speaker 3:You know something functional get in shape. Community camaraderie. It's kind of, you know, like you're saying it's a big family kind of event, um, but it's also, you know, legitimate martial arts where it's like it's stuff that if, if something happens, you're probably gonna be okay. You know it's like you can never predict all the the wild cards, but uh, but it's definitely. You know something that's functional, especially for the kids, is you know the kids program, because now, like jiu-jitsu is like the founder I think everybody's in shitsuits, like that's the thing, uh. But we teach our kids striking as well, because I'm just a big believer in like your first priority of teaching children is self-defense. And I tell people all the time like, do you see me? Stuff your kid in the band? You don't need them trying to be like, well, here, get my guard so I can try to use choke. I learned in class. You know like they need to know how to punch, kick lean elbow, take down, jump on people, choke people, swing sticks. You know, that's where.
Speaker 2:Yeah to where it's not like a four and it's like you said. It's kind of like becomes muscle memory. Because, yeah, the kids get frustrated. They're like, why do we have to keep doing this? And he's like because I want you to be able to do it without thinking that you're doing it. Yeah, reactionary.
Speaker 3:I mean because the weapons program in the martial arts world it's like, oh, you're teaching weapons. It's kind of dumb and it's like, well, you can teach specific weapons because you don't want to teach the kids how to do things that are too extremely violent, too young. But there's transit properties where, like, the kids get to swing no jokes. They love no jokes. I mean, who didn't you're? Like oh this is awesome.
Speaker 2:I like myself in the head like did you make number times too?
Speaker 3:I didn't I make them, but I probably yeah, you know and, but it's a fun time, but at the same time it's like that transitive property of like if that kid picks up a bicycle chain or a bicycle lock, it's gonna work the same way and they can. Then they can get somebody off them if they have to, you know. Or like the big lump bo staff you know, like they pick up a broomstick or a rake or something you know, so like there's some underlining meanings in the program that the kids and also parents don't even know about because, you know, freaks them out. They're like no, stab them in the eye they're like, oh easy, but how do you?
Speaker 1:because how do you prevent the kids from then going back to school and then beating the crap out of somebody? And then all of a sudden it comes back to you like, hey, you taught him this, like you're to blame in some way.
Speaker 3:Shape or form, structure and discipline, and that's happened and 100 of the time, whenever that's happened, it's been a situation which you know, our kid was just protecting themselves or somebody else. You know, because they're good kids. You know, very rarely do you have a situation like, oh, this kid's just out there harassing people. Now, it's just because that structure and discipline in the program for those kids to learn the things that can do harm of that nature, they got to be in the program for a little bit. So, even with a slow start, you know, um, but it's structure and discipline, it's the environment, the culture. You know I'm like you're a protector of yourself and those that need help, right, you know, and that's helped me a lot of time when, when kids come in, oh man, my kid's getting bullied. But sometimes, like the bully comes and you need those kids too, because they just don't understand how to regulate that comes into like some respect as well.
Speaker 3:Too right, you teach a lot of respect, lot of respect in martial arts, oh for sure. I mean it's straight lines yes sirs, no sirs, you know, because what we're doing can inherently, you know, hurt people, you know. So we run a structure, but it's always a good time. We disguise it very well and that's why the culmination is, like Matt could tell you, like the advanced rank testings is like what everybody loves to go to, because we do them different by ring. So, like the high rings, when they do a testing, only those belt colors go to the testing, because it's just a different level of intensity than like, oh, my kid's a white belt, they just started, or they're a yellow belt, they're six months in. That's a different kind of test how high?
Speaker 2:did the girls get in the ratings? They got those junior black belts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we all I think you put a weapon on you yeah, well, and like I say I I mean caleb I think the best sell for us was that they just most people win and if you know, hopefully it never happens, but whenever someone tries to do pin them down or whatever, they they freeze because they've never had to happen, whereas when they're at these that they it happens every every three, three times a week. Yeah, so there's, so it like it's it's normal to them, whereas, yeah, so that was what, like as a dad, that's why I wanted the girls to go there, because then I was like, if anything ever happens, they, you know, they probably let it happen or, you know, or tried.
Speaker 1:So, knowing your thriftiness, I could see at home. All right, carrie, I want to get a good retirement investment. I'm going to put on a mask, I'm going to come in the front door and let's see. If that and Caleb, they didn't do what they were supposed to do, I want a refund. I didn't get, I would be getting a call.
Speaker 3:I can tell you, man, the Mars girls.
Speaker 3:I definitely have no concern. Every kid has predispositions. You got your softer kids, you got your aggressive kids and things of that nature, the Mars girls. When it came time to get their own business especially now it was time to spar she would just be like you don't want the kids to hurt each other, but it does get a little intense. You know it's contact sport.
Speaker 3:So when you have another kid that's at similar level that can handle the pressure, the kids know that they can kind of go a little. And one time Mal was in class, she came over and she's like coach, is it okay if I make him cry? And I was like, absolutely, you know, because these kids, you know to them like it's it can get very serious and you know, but when it's appropriate they can kind of get after it to that level, you know. And when you see that come out of kids you know it's fun because it's control, because they know when and where, because you know you go with a younger kid or somebody that's not as good. They tone it down. But there's times where you kind of let them off the chain a little bit.
Speaker 2:And I'll be down. Like you know, they have all kinds of cabbing. It's not like they just, but if you get kicked right away it's still going to hurt.
Speaker 1:But in all seriousness, for you though you have a daughter, that's good.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean you know she would but, somebody conscious probably, take the wallet, because I always joke with them all like, hey, self-defense, when they go unconscious, take their wallet, see there's money in there and spare trade. But yeah, it just uh, because I mean that's the power of like. The jiu-jitsu part is like learning how to, you know, choke somebody or, you know, bend their joint the wrong way. It's just the power of being able to put somebody in a conscious, regardless of size. You know.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to have you demonstrate a couple of holes on Bobby, I feel like.
Speaker 3:A lot of dads would do the prep that makes dude. I know a girl on his neck out of his own life so it's like yeah he's been choking.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of dads would would do the pro I did. We didn't ever do it could, just probably because I'm lazy. But we, we were, you know, busy and we didn't do it.
Speaker 1:But a lot of dads oh yeah, and it's always funny. So they train with their kids or it has to be in a separate class.
Speaker 3:We always separate, but like we do, like an open mat on weekends, so like they'll bring the kids in and they'll they'll be involved a little bit, but it's like siblings. So what parents usually learn is when you do something legit like this, training together is kind of cute for a minute, but then it like you know you don't want the siblings training together and sometimes you don't want to be trying to kid because they're like they jump on you and put the squeeze on and uh, but yeah, so like they'll, they'll train together a little bit on weekends. Sometimes the classes are separate, but the funny thing is that. So every time I have a parent that starts training, they they always apologize to the kid because you know parents on the sideline, you need to do better, you need to get down the mat, you need to do this. You need to just do what you're told like, come on, do better. Every single time parents start training like hey, buddy, stop. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's an extra little harder for us.
Speaker 1:I feel like you could reach across the table and snap the phone out of bobby's hand when he's being rude and doing checks in the middle. I feel like you could do that.
Speaker 2:So, number one, the camera wasn't on me, I just didn't know what. She pointed it off screen. The camera's always watching. Yeah, well, matt and I were noticing.
Speaker 1:He'll edit it anyways, I'm gonna edit. I'm gonna have that as the lead. Right now. I'll have the camera on you, that's fine it's still on. Hey, only if I do something, violent you know we do want to see, though, a move on around, at least like a beginner's move or something we can do a beginner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the last one we did, like I said, you know, yeah, goes unconscious, hits his head. It was a thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've done that before. Safety first.
Speaker 3:There's no science on that tier I will warn you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do have some training. Oh, I've trained for many, many years. Okay, okay, deadly man.
Speaker 3:It's been a minute.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So how did you get into this? You do this all growing up. I grew up, uh, doing this as a kid. My dad was a martial artist and, uh, it was one of those deals where, like, he kind of learned by the third kid that you know, don't push it on him. So he was always kind of the takeaway. So getting him to train was always really difficult and so it made me hungry for it and so he would be putting some classes when I was little. Funny story about the first class that I do so fighting dad to make him train.
Speaker 3:I'm like amy six or seven maybe, little guy, I go to a full karate class and I'm like filing kind of arrived. So I get on my karate uniform, got my white belt on on, I'm ready to be like man. I've been a ninja. I knew what I'm doing because Dan had shown me some stuff. And so we go to this class, we're doing some things, we do some kind of partner drill. Well, the one thing that Dan had taught me was moon elbow headbutt, so that is legitimately what I had learned at this point, hit somebody in the knee?
Speaker 3:no, you need them with your knee, yeah, okay, then you hit them with an elbow and then you headbutt like you're how old at this point? I'm like maybe six, maybe six. And so I'm in this karate class and you know, a kid's karate class is pretty chill, you know, because you don't want the kids to hurt each other and all this stuff like that, and we do some kind of partner drill and, without missing five feet, I am just like me elbow headbutt and that did not go well and I was in so much trouble and I couldn't figure out why. Because I was like I'm doing martial arts, like I just did karate. I'm in so much trouble and I couldn't figure out why, cause I was like I'm doing martial arts, like I just did karate. I'm in a karate class. I don't understand the problem. So I am just confused. I'm all get out and you know they pull you out of the drill. Oh yeah, I'm just like I'm doing pushups and I'm just like why am I doing pushups for doing karate? Awesome on push-ups for doing karate, awesome because I'm like I did a great job and uh, so that was a learning experience. Oh, it was hard to figure out the difference, but I just stayed in it, always had a passion for it.
Speaker 3:And when I got older, you know, graduated high school, uh, went to college, um, actually had a chest surgery when I was a teenager. So like, right when I graduated, I'd have this massive chest surgery and I was doing martial arts, running to school, racing cars, doing cool stuff, not realizing how serious this was. And then it's like, boom, you sit in a chair, you can't talk, you can't move, you're not supposed to ride the car for a year, you're not going to be out of this thing for a month minimum, you know. So it was a very big culture change. So, out of desperation, boredom, I went to college because I was going to go military. My whole life I was like, oh no, I'm a ninja training all the time, I'm doing all the karate stuff, doing martial arts. I was going to go military. Well, ironically, recruiters will tell you things that sometimes are not always accurate. So, since I was like 15 years old, every recruiter I'd ever talked to was like, oh man, we're going to put you in, they'll take care of this, you're going to be able to go to college. And I knew the surgery thing was coming, like, oh no, we'll do surgery. You know, like all these things that a teenager talking to a recruiter at like a festival, you know, definitely not asking the right questions. So I'm under the impression. I'm like, oh, I'm going to military, it's going to be awesome. So find out, yeah, surgery, you don't get to go in the military.
Speaker 3:So I ended up going to college out of just pure bore, because I just could not stand sitting in the house any longer. So go to college doing rehab, trying to get back to doing martial arts, get a real corporate job, doing all the things making a bunch of money, vp at like 23, stuff going on that. And then one day I'm just sitting in my office and I was like this sucks my boss's office. And I said, hey, man, uh, I'm going to the gym full-time, like I, just this, I don't want to do this anymore. Well, do you need more money? Was honestly no. I don't even know what to do with the money I'm making right now because you know I'm a kid, like I don't, I'm just. I bought hot rods and cold stereo speakers. It was like that was it. And so I went to the gym full time and just leaned in and ended up moving to Bentonville in LA and opened up the gym and just kept growing and growing, and so it's it would open that wall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's a great program.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we started Inferno at 03 in a tool shed. Oh wow, that's where I came from, because me and friends had trained in other martial arts schools and it was always some kind of drama politics. They'd go out of business. This instructor hated that instructor. It was always something stupid, and so I showed up to teach class. The doors are locked. Can't figure out what's going on.
Speaker 3:I end up calling the landlord and she's like, yeah, they ain't paid me rent in about a year. And I was like, wait, what? Because I was collecting money putting it in this drawer. This is a rinky-dink. We're talking Clarksville, arkansas. Like this is nothing serious. And so I'm just like what? So me and my buddy Mike, you know, we were like man. So I trained for my first one-time fight on his car uh, carport, because that's because that's where we at and uh, which I lost, by the way. Yeah, I got dq'd because it's barely thrown elbows and amateur multi's not legal. I didn't even know, I'm just like I knocked him down. What's the once again?
Speaker 1:I'm a six-year-old in karate class not understanding what you need some counseling, some therapy. I thought I did good no, elbows are not legal.
Speaker 3:didn't read read the rules. Didn't know anything. Shut up, fight, but it was a good time.
Speaker 1:Campbell, let me ask you a couple questions. Give me Safe to say, if somebody walks up behind you in a parking lot, not a good move for the person right? I mean you're like one or two lows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean theoretically. You know we all want to say that Like that's what you sell, you propagate. Reality is everything can happen. So because in the real world, like we could ambush multiple opponents, people hit you in the head with a brick None of you do that or stab you in the kidney, like you know, like most knife fights, like 80% of knife fights, people don't even know they're in a knife fight until stat. So do I have a skill set that, technically, should protect me more than anyone else? You know on average, technically, yes.
Speaker 1:So what is that move? If, if, if Bobby and I are walking out to my car after this and somebody comes up behind us like what's, what's? What are the first two things you tell somebody to do? As best as they can? I always tell people hips towards danger.
Speaker 3:Turn your hips towards the danger, no matter what, because you don't want people behind you, you want stuff in front of you. That's where you're strong, that's where you can get all the people, that's where you can hit people Right there. Hips towards danger. You're squared though.
Speaker 2:That makes it easier to knock you up.
Speaker 3:So that's my first thing Hips towards danger and then after that it's easy Eyes, throat and ears go for the eyes, go for the throat, not groin groin I use as an adjustment to get to your eyes and throat because, like most people that are attacking you aren't wired refining. A lot of times you're on drugs or off drugs, so a pain response, um, such as a grunge strike, is not always the best and I mean it'll work. It's like it's going to slow them down. But my goal is like what turns somebody off? If you're blind and can't see me, it's hard to hurt me.
Speaker 1:If you can't see me, so are you finger or elbow? I'm a thumb in the eye, thumb in the eye.
Speaker 3:I'm all about thumbs in the eye, because I can hit you with my palm at the same time. My thumb goes in your eye, so you get a little bit of a jaw strike, so it's almost like a slap, but a little bit more of a palm heel strike, you know here.
Speaker 1:So I get a little bit of that rattle on the jaw as my thumb binds your cell so well. Oh, and while that's happening, you know, don't use that on absolutely no, I should use it on me.
Speaker 3:That's the problem, yeah you know, and trying to get all the throat, like while you're doing that, you know it's like this coming, yeah well. So I always joke because I'm all like, don't choke. Like this, this is for fun, joke like this because this is for real. Oh okay, yeah, you want to get a hold of that trachea.
Speaker 3:I always tell people it's like getting a hold of the water hose and just close it. You know, like that's your goal, because when I do that I get your attention, because you know when people are going to harm you, they usually want to get close to you. They're gonna get a hold of it and then their eyes open. So when their eyes open, boom, the sun right in the eye and I go fellas, I'm gonna attack and it's deep as a so and then of course it's. You know, one is none, two is one. So it's like after you get that first one in, then your goal is to get the second one. You know, because you already throw where it's like we're gonna make sure and I always tell people to groin, strike. That's what I use to help get drag clubs. Or you know, like, so they are close and they're a little bit taller, or something.
Speaker 3:You strike the groin because people bend the waist and so they don't get all your head I'm like I don't know if I'm scared or excited, everything, just like yeah, it's kind of a mix, let's go outside yeah, it's kind of a mix, you know, like, you know, fear and excitement kind of a blend, but yeah, so that's that's what I advise people to do, because, but then you got to look at force multipliers, where it's like, if somebody actually means you harm you're carrying a firearm or a knife of some sort, you know, then you, you have to employ that.
Speaker 3:But, as my coach always says, defend yourself physically and legally, because the legal environment is also a major factor that you have to put in context, because, uh, you know, social justice is so strong now you could do something that's legally vetted, but still the world may torture you, end your life in your career and it's over. Uh, so you always have to be thinking in that context. But you know the old adage you, you know, you'd rather be carried by six and try by three. You know, we're just like well, you know, like whatever, you choose to go by six and tried by three. That's right, you know, we're just like well, you know, like whatever you choose to go down that route, I'm like well, I want to survive and I will let people judge my actions versus like I got to be put. You know, so it's smart. Yeah, so I mean that's a factor too, because-.
Speaker 1:Wasn't there just a case in New York where somebody on a subway, where a guy right somebody was out of control and the guy grabbed him in a chokehold and killed him yes and went to trial and he got off because he was defending. But that's scary stuff, right? It really is.
Speaker 3:Because, like I know of a guy that was a jiu-jitsu guy Wasn't the best guy, but he was a jiu-jitsu guy and he was working security at some event and he snatched him up and joked him unconscious and killed that guy. But like a dummy he decides to conceal it. So he walks off and then tries to come back because you know he's figuring out what's happening comes back, calls it in oh, this guy jumped on me. Then he started changing the story. I had to choke him. Something happened. It's the world of film, you know, it's like yeah well and being trained, it's even worse.
Speaker 2:Being it, you know it's like well and being trained is even worse being when you're trained, it's like hearing it again.
Speaker 3:It's more difficult through social justice and you can't tell me that it doesn't influence a jury and this is what you've been doing for your whole life. Is there just like well, I don't know, because they don't know. You know, it's like if tell matt hey man, I'm gonna go frame this house, do I have it done by monday? Why not?
Speaker 2:no big deal, he's gonna like and be like, oh yeah, good, isn't it to the point where, like it better not be a bar fight, correct it, better be? You're really truly in fear for your life and that's one of the things.
Speaker 3:You gotta be really careful well, and what I think people are finally figuring out is they've got to stop fighting people for fun, like there's an avenue for that. You know, you can go to Jiu-Jitsu tournaments. I'm going to community fights, kim, sign up with you, yeah. Yeah, I mean we can do that right now. Let's go to the gym We'll, you know, we'll jump in the cage Like there's an avenue to do it. So the bar fight scenario, the tough guy in the restaurant people are starting to figure out like that is not the way to me. Tough guy in the restaurant.
Speaker 2:Is that why you had to get out of it Like you were not at all Too dead?
Speaker 1:I was too dead for me.
Speaker 3:Too dead. They're like man we've run out of stripes.
Speaker 2:I was actually touched by toes at one point. I was actually flexible. Bruce Lee, rob Nelson, put him in the same category. I told Ange a few weeks ago that I wanted to start training again. Did she laugh at you? You really did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I really did. I swear to you this is a true story. And she goes. You realize you're in your 40s now. It's not like back when you were doing it when you were in your 20s. I was like oh, I wasn't in my 20s. She was like look, you were in your 20s. Well, no, I mean, you say that and and there's people that are, oh, yeah, well, I wrote, oh, but 100 it's, it's great exercise.
Speaker 3:Well, ironically, flexibility, all that stuff. Right, it's starting to attract older people. So our jiu-jitsu class, like my day class, I call it the master's class executives because it's always on guys, because it's like everybody's in their 40s and 50s and 60s yes, and so jiu-jitsu, because of the way that it works and the way you train, it's not as impact oriented. A lot of people are doing that much later in life, like my coach has a guy that trains with him. It's, uh, 89 years old and we took him to brazil and we're taking him back to brazil this summer. It's an amazing story. Like the news came down to the story with him. You know, because he didn't know right, it's like 89, do energy, jimsy, so you can still do that now. Kickboxing, boxing, mma, that's a little bit different. Like you can hit pads forever, but you know other people hitting you in the skull. That definitely has an expression, yeah and how does pricing work?
Speaker 1:is it a a monthly charge? Is it a per class? Is it all a car? Kind of depends on the program.
Speaker 3:You know like the pricing depends on which program you want to do, how much you want to do it.
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 3:thriftiest option. The thriftiest option is all like Was it mine? Watch YouTube, yeah.
Speaker 2:Watch YouTube. Dude, go in the backyard. Gary never told me what anything cost. Yeah, yeah, she's smart, you're talking like $125, $160 a month, something like that.
Speaker 3:You know something that's. And what does that get? That gets you a couple classes a week, you know up to four classes, you know Affordable.
Speaker 1:It's a deal. And how many people in a class?
Speaker 3:Depends on what class. Sometimes you'll be in a class of six people, sometimes you'll be in a class of 40. Oh well, it just kind of depends on the day, what the event is. Um, and honestly, having so many different locations is really a bit beneficial, because some people don't like big classes. You know, they're like man, so they'll go in smaller gyms, so it's small classes.
Speaker 3:But then you have other people. They like the big classes because all the training ones oh man, they train everybody. So they'll go to like because Bentonville's usually bigger classes, so they'll go there, you know. So you kind of have this different choice you can play. And then also, just when you want to go somewhere different, you know when you're like hey, I'll just drive to Springdale and you're with a bunch of different people you've never traveled with, but you're in an environment where you're all like you know, I can still do what I know I'm supposed to do, but with different people. So it's a little bit more competitive. And then, whenever people do that a little bit, they're like you know what, I'll go to a tournament, you know. So they'll go try a jiu-jitsu tournament or something like that.
Speaker 2:So it's has a different, you know, blend oh, it's cool, like we would watch when the kids are little that they're like the, the real, like he had a few like oh yeah, like five years can try. It sound like he wants this guy. Yeah, that's for sure, oh boy.
Speaker 3:We actually have one of our guys as a title fight coming up. He's getting ready for work that's going to be in Oklahoma and he's about to go to Portland for a week for a training camp with my friends. He trumps a bunch of UFC guys and he's one of the best coaches in the world and the greatest human being, and so I try to send my guys up there to do a training camp just to get a different look and a different influence, because you know the pressure's on you. Go somewhere else, you're wrecking your team. All these guys are fighters. Some of them are big-name fighters. It just helps push that line a little bit and it's a guy that I trust, that I know he's going to take care of.
Speaker 1:What's it going to take for you to get back in, Bobby? This is because we're breaking news on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know about this. If you guys sign up, I'll sign up, we'll go together.
Speaker 1:I could do a trough. I don't know how much I could do with my knee right now. Yeah, we'll go easy on you. Yeah, I got a torn meniscus and ACL. I'm recovering from. I mean that's actually pretty common, I mean. I do like the crane move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you stuff. Yeah, they're hate. Yeah, it looks like I'm going to have all you guys snoring at my house. I need to redo the fence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we're going to get this car, get the fence Wax off, wax off.
Speaker 2:That's all legitimate Bill.
Speaker 1:That's all legitimate right.
Speaker 3:I mean that has to be Thursday night, that's 100%, spend some miles and we'll let you in the gym. But yeah, training around injuries is definitely something everybody has to do, like right now, like pulling my phone out of my back pocket, like my shoulder clicks every time. So you just have to you work around it. And that's where our environment is really helpful, because it's a train with people instead of train against people. Because there's times where it's like, hey, we're going to get serious today and I'm going to do jiu-jitsu to you, but most of the time it's like I'm going to do some jiu-jitsu with you. So it's definitely changed and evolved.
Speaker 3:Because we were the fight club goofball, doofuses and toolshed. That was like, oh, you want to train here? Put on some gloves, let's fight each other right now. That's legitimately where we started that each other right now. That's legitimately where we started. That's so funny. I can remember being the sign, the waiver guy because I was so dumb and it's just a miracle that nobody legit showed up. Because I can remember when I went and trained with my my current coach, when I first got to go cross training with these guys they were actually talented, you know, and I was like, oh, these guys really know what they're doing. I'm just a goofball with a small talent trying to watch VHS tapes to get better. That's good. It was silly. I can remember a friend of mine introduced me to these guys. This is the sign, the waiver guy. My first thought was like these guys are going to beat me up right now in front of everybody and there's nothing I can do.
Speaker 1:They were legit. Can you give us a? There's got to be a story that you guys do behind the scenes Like you can't believe this happened today, like there's got to be something like this person came in and whatever. You got something funny for the audience.
Speaker 3:Oh man, a number of stories Like here's a funny one. So when you sit at the gym long enough big glass windows people walk in and you get to where you kind of uh, can kind of see what's coming, and you're all like so me and my buddy mike, we've been doing this for almost 25 years together, and so whenever interesting ones are coming in, it becomes who has to deal with.
Speaker 3:so if you spot him first you're like I'm out and a funny one that can't so. So this car pulls up 1990 caprice, oh boy four. Door primer black, not black, I was like. Has a batman logo painted on the hood? Nope, no lie, batman logo painted on the hood, and I'm just like you know. But there's those guys that do this. You know those things when the cars run into each other, demolition of Europe.
Speaker 3:So I'm just like you know, I'm a car guy, I'm like, well, I can buy it. Maybe it's just that's what it's going to be you haven't decided to pick the phone up yet.
Speaker 1:Let's see where this goes.
Speaker 3:I'm intrigued. Guy walks in mohawk, I'll chat it up. We're all like look stuff. You're like man, this is going to be a tough guy. And he starts talking to me. But he's a fighter. And I was like, oh, which? I hear that a lot, I'm a fighter, that's. You know everybody in the industry, you hear that a lot. But it sounded like it was almost legit, where it's all like, oh, so you've trained before, like he'd done some stuff, and I was like okay. I was like that's awesome. I was like, well, what's your name, dragon? And I was like, oh, okay, you like oh, okay, you're looking for the camera.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's punking me right now Dragging with the Batman on the car, the tats and that ball, and I was like you know what.
Speaker 3:So when you get into the fight game, there is a level in which it turns into entertainment. That does exist, because I try to be, you know, open-minded, where you're like, hey, man, never know, when you make it at the large level, like you got to kind of play the game, you're in the entertainment business, no longer in the martial arts business. So I didn't think it was probably that, but it's like, maybe this guy, you know you watch the internet.
Speaker 2:Like you know, this is what other people are doing.
Speaker 3:You know you buy into that sometimes, so I'm like okay we'll see.
Speaker 3:I was like well, we have fight teams on this time and back then fight team was a bit pretty solid a lot of pros, um and I was like you could. So if you came to a practice back then when this occurred like it was going to be a difficult practice, this guy's trying. You know, I thought he had some fights. Okay, let's put you in drag. The dragon got his ass whooped. It was not a good day for the dragon and it wasn't even that we didn't even get to the part where you got to really punch each other.
Speaker 3:We didn't even get to that part.
Speaker 1:He didn't get to knee, elbow headbutt.
Speaker 3:We didn't get that far. We didn't get that far ahead, because you know you start out with cardio, so we start out with cardio rounds. You know, because that you know being in shape. So shout out to dragon yeah, yeah, he was struggling, he was trying.
Speaker 3:You know as much as I make the jokes like I mean he was trying, um, but it just it was not going well, because these are professional athletes, you know, these are guys that are putting in the work, that want to make it um, and so there is what gets in the cardio, which was tough, and I'll give people a gimp, because you could take me right now to a crossfit gym and run me through something that would probably destroy me. But I guarantee you, if we get on the mat, I'll probably mop the floor with you. You know, like that, because it's different types of muscle things and I and I get that, so I'm so I'm really pretty easy on the cardio whenever people come in and it's like, hey, this is new, it's different, we'd be okay, then you guys would be fine, you guys would be fine, just call you Dragon.
Speaker 2:Maybe the beginner class?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so then we get into the drilling, which is a lot of wrestling and wall work and you know specific stuff. So it's resistance training, but you're not punching in any gym. And that's whenever I was a. I was just able to see like, okay, this guy doesn't know what he thinks he knows, you know, uh, and it just it. I mean, it was, it was for dragon, it was rough, it was rough dragon was dragon.
Speaker 1:Uh, he was dragging so hard and buff the magic journey yeah, he was like.
Speaker 2:Uh, he was waiting for that phone to ring game you're like there's always someone better out there, but it's everyone.
Speaker 3:And then that pretty much was it where it was. Like, you know, he was cooked so he didn't get to the sparring, and we are so past that to where there was a time in which he was all like, oh yeah, no, you want to be a fighter, and I'm like those days are long gone. So luckily he didn't make it to that part, but yeah, that was.
Speaker 2:Did he ever come back?
Speaker 3:One time I think he swung by. You know, oh well, I've just been busy and you know life got in the way and all that stuff, and you know I was like, yeah, no man, it's all good, and just kind of flog it off let's know what dragon's up to now.
Speaker 3:Yeah man, honestly he's probably the smart one, he probably has a legit job, probably has health insurance, he probably doesn't click when he picks his cell phone out of his pocket, so like. But also being a person that I went through that myself, like when I found my coach, when I thought that I was doing him like, when I was assigned the waiver guy and got introduced to those guys, I showed up for fight team at their place. So I was dragging, everybody's been dragging, everybody's been that guy. So I was that guy and I showed up. I walked into this very small school man, the mats were packed and I'm just like, hey, I guess, guess, I didn't show up on saturday, you know, and we, we jumped for 20 minutes and I've never jumped for 20 minutes in my life.
Speaker 3:I'm just like what are we? Doing 20 minutes, and then we started cardio and I was like what that didn't count as cardio.
Speaker 3:The cardio, it was just yeah. And then we did into the grappling and sparring. Man, I got mopped, oh my gosh. I mean I was wrecked but I loved every ounce of it because I was trying to get back like this is what I was up for. But man, those guys were so good where I was at and I mean just but I. But then I showed up every time and I can remember it was a two-hour drive and when I would hit about Conway the adrenaline would start pumping. You know, I'd show up to practice and be like I'm already kind of tired Because I'm just, you know, in my brain. And so when I see guys come in like that, like it is funny and you enjoy it and you laugh, but like I've been the dragon, and so like, like the thing, is that what you do?
Speaker 1:it's like I've been the dragon I think, all of us, all of us.
Speaker 2:That's a new t-shirt.
Speaker 1:I've been a dragon.
Speaker 3:I think it's just drag just dragging I'll be dragging shirts and that's it's like, you know, take the humility and keep trying to get better. And that's the only time like I'll lose respect for people. Who's like, when you know there's a deficiency, or like you know there's a struggle, you're obviously supposed to be and we move away from that resistance. And that's really what our entire program is about is teaching kids and adults how to move into a resistance or around it, and not away from it. Love it, you know, because that's really what kind of drives society these days like, oh, you're all awesome at something. Oh, don't do that, because everybody's going to take videos and pictures and make fun of you. That's true, you know. It's like caleb.
Speaker 1:It's uh website, instagram page, facebook page address. Let's tell everybody how to find you. Yeah, you just look up inferno mmacom.
Speaker 3:You know type in inferno wars, like I mean. We're very well known here, been around for a while. You know we've got the facebook page. We have an instagram. We're not good at that stuff so, like you, join the crowd yeah, join the crowd. Yeah, call us, send us a message like Instagram messages. I'll find it like two weeks later. I'm like oh man, uh, yeah, so we're working on that, but uh yeah, what shop are you mostly at? I'm usually at Bentonville, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, work with most of the agencies in the area. You'll never get a ticket. Uh, you would think you would think so that's not always correct. You know, that's like barely 45 overs when you're doing 130 in a 35.
Speaker 2:It's killing from inferno. It's just 40 miles. And then you see my license plate dragon yeah, didn't you see the back?
Speaker 3:you know, like that, I'm the dragon, yeah, so I I spend a lot of time doing that now, uh, just because you know those guys they need more training, um, and the resources that are available are always a struggle. So we, uh, we actually have a scholarship program for all the agencies where they can put a couple guys that get chosen through a process and they get to train. And you know, I can honestly say you know, because we've been working on this for the last 15 years, the last 15 years, what the agencies have done to build in a better quality program and improve the education for cops locally. It has definitely changed drastically to where these guys are able to do a better job for themselves and people around them. Because you know, people that don't know how to fight are the most dangerous person to fight. There's no way of crazy punching and kicking Right.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yeah, it looks just like that, but whenever you kind of learn how to handle somebody, one like the pressure goes down. So whenever you're dealing with somebody, they're getting amped up. You don't get it. So then you're calm in that kind of calm situation and when it does get crazy and things break off. You're so much cooler and calmer. You just kind of get all the people put them a position where they can't move, can't hurt you or others, and so it's really been changing. So I'm really pleased with the direction Law Fortress has been taking.
Speaker 2:It's amazing what's out there. You're right about that. That's huge.
Speaker 3:It's been difficult because those guys are so overworked with time constraints and agencies are so dictated by so much bureaucracy Like, well, here are so dictated by so much bureaucracy, like, well, here's all the p's and q's, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. It honestly took me so long just to get involved to a degree to where it met all of their needs legal's comfortable, admin's comfortable. Like everybody sees the big picture of like, oh, this is working, but now it's yielding results. I mean, like even the number of lawsuits that agencies are facing right now, um, have decreased so much over the last several years because cops are doing a better job. I mean, still mistakes from a lot of things can be better, but it's. That's really, really good. Yeah, and as our area grows, it matters more to me because I'm like man, you know our kids are out there. They're like this is important.
Speaker 1:We've got to take care of this. Well, thanks for coming in there for a session, a scoring session. You haven't met out yet, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know it's like well, like I said, he's got $3. He's got lots of practice. They're going. Yeah, check this new technique out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cheers, thank you. We need to do this again.
Speaker 1:Yes, this was great For sure. Thank you for coming in, I do.