WTF Do I Do Now?

29. Women's Empowerment with The Skin I'm In Podcast

• Mandy | Betrayal & Empowerment Life Coach • Episode 29

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This episode was originally featured on The Skin I'm In Podcast where Mandy is interviewed! You can connect with Chanel from The Skin I'm In below

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  Hi, everyone. I let them back to the episode or what the fuck do I do now? A safe space where we talk about all things, healing and empowerment after their cheating porn use and betrayal trauma. To remind you, it's not your fault and healing is absolutely possible. I'm your host, Mandy, a certified women's empowerment life coach trauma informed relationship coach meditation teacher, and trauma-informed breathwork teacher. 

So today's episode is going to be a little different than previous episodes. This is actually. Uh, episode or I was on someone else's podcast. So she's interviewed me and we dive into all things, Potrero trauma, women's empowerment. 

I'm really excited to share this podcast with all of you as well. Chanel. She is the host of this podcast called the skin I'm in and it is an amazing podcast. If you haven't heard it. I definitely recommend she's also based in Australia. 

And I know I have a lot of Australia listeners, which I actually just found out last week. And I'm so excited about. Sydney Australia is apparently the top place where my podcast is being listened to, which makes me so excited, because if you've been following along with me for a while, you know that I'm actually moving to Australia and so. I just think the synergies of that is crazy. 

I mean, I don't know anyone that lives in  Australia. Filling to begin with. So it's cool that there's going to be people there that I, hopefully I can meet up with you all. So anyways, I'll dive into this  podcast episode. Again, this is what Chanel from the skin I'm in. Definitely recommend checking out her on social media and her podcast as well. 



All right. Let's dive into it.  My guest today is a certified trauma informed and women's empowerment life coach, helping women heal from their current or past partners, porn use, infidelity, and betrayal trauma. She has over 380 training hours and is certified as a women's empowerment life coach, advanced trauma relationships coach, trauma informed somatics breathwork facilitator, and meditation and mindfulness therapist.

Teacher. Wow.  She's committed to raising awareness and educating society about the devastation of this kind of addiction and the negative impact it has on relationships like the trauma it leaves behind. After experiencing her own betrayal, my guest now uses her platform on Instagram, her women's support group, and her podcast, WTF Do I Do Now, to spread the word and help others overcome the trauma and heal. 

Aside from advocating against porn, my guest loves spending time in nature, the beach, hiking, doing yoga, traveling, celebrating being single, and reading about inspiring women throughout history who have helped pave the way for other women.  We talk relationships. Gaslighting, manipulative behaviors, and how to recognize the signs that perhaps your partner might be keeping a dirty little secret.

So sit back, relax, and get ready to take some notes ladies, because this episode is a doozy. 

Hello, listeners, thanks for joining another episode of the Skin I'm In podcast. I'm your host, Chanel, and this is a place where women can tune in to gain peace through clarity, purpose through inspiration, and the permission to be themselves through the stories of other women. If you're enjoying these episodes so far, click the like, share, and subscribe button so that more women like you can be positively impacted by the stories in this podcast. 

Hey, you ready?  Yeah, let's do it. Welcome to the Skin I'm In podcast, Mandy.  Thank you. It's so nice to be here. I'm so excited for this chat. I know. I've been thinking a lot about you lately and your posts always make me chuckle because you bring this like humor to a topic that's really not funny. And I love that you inject that into your posts.

So I'd love to know why you come from that perspective when you talk about the work that you do.  Yeah. So  I think it's twofold. First, first of all, it's selfish on my behalf because like I'm posting about this stuff all day. Like I want there to be, I want it to be enjoyment. I want to have fun. Like, yes, I totally understand how difficult and, crappy of a journey.

It is like it's a very serious matter. But I feel like the more the more I go on my healing journey, the farther I get away from when the betrayal happened, the more I'm able to look back at it and just laugh one because a lot of the pain is gone. But to mostly of just like how absurd of a situation it is and how unfair and how unjust it is, where it's like,  I, I feel like I took the time to like process the emotions and go through it.

I think that's so important to do.  But I also think it's just nice to be able to have a little bit of a lighter approach. Once you kind of reach like a certain  part on your healing journey. And I just want other girls to be able to laugh. Like if I can make a girl laugh when she's just been crying all day and she can like come across a post of me talking about some shitty thing my ex did.

And she's like, wait, my ex did that too. It also just like creates a bond with among females to be like.  In a way, we're all kind of dating the same guy, like they all act the same way. And so it just also helps you feel less personal to know that like, Oh, this guy was like doing other things to other women.

It's not just me. Like, it's not like my, it's not like I'm not worthy enough or something's wrong with me. It's just how these men in this situation are acting.  Yeah. And when I think about that, I, I love that perspective because I would. I would think that it would also lessen the burden on our pain to know that, Oh, someone else has been through it.

It's not great to know that so many women go through this, especially with the rise in, you know, porn use, uh, amongst men, but it would kind of give me the thing of, Oh, I'm not alone.  I'm not alone, that means that it's not me. So  you went through something pretty, pretty horrible. Can you tell the listeners, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in your shoes. 

What happened? How did you find out?  Yeah, so I'll try to give the cliff notes version because if I go into like full details and everything, we'll literally be here for like four hours. Like I could.  Yeah, I couldn't create a whole TED talk just around what happened. So really, really long story short, I was living with my partner.

We were in a multi year relationship, had a dog. Um, I thought like he was my soulmate. We were having conversations about getting married, like all that stuff. And then  slowly towards the end of our relationship, I just, I just had this gut feeling that kept telling me like something was off, like even a year into our relationship, I started going to a therapist and I was like, Hey, I feel like my partner's hiding something from me, but like, he's so good on pen and paper.

Everyone in my family and like French, like love him. He treats me so well. He does all these nice things. Like he's like, I've never had a man treat me as well as he does. And now I look back and like, okay, he was just like, love bombing me. But  so I started going to therapy for this and.  We didn't talk about him too much at Moore, so sorry just to talk about like Me and family things, but I'm getting a little bit off topic.

How do I reel this back in? Um, it's just such a long story. There's so much to say. Um, But it's so relevant. I think a lot of that is relevant because I, I, I, you know, I've, I've been down the road as well, and we've talked about this of where you doubt your own intuition. And that doesn't come from him, that comes from somewhere within you that's missing.

And so when you go to therapy, when you're like, I need help, something's going on, it always comes back to the conversation about you, where you're at, where your self confidence is and what's missing within you. So it's totally relevant. What did you end up finding? Or did you end up finding that there was something there that made you doubt your own intuition?

Yes, 100 percent to the woman's intuition. That's something I try to communicate so much with my clients too. I'm like,  our woman's intuition is so strong, but we just try to talk ourselves out of it. But so what happened was they were just like really small, Things that led up to this point, like for one time we were on a date night and I saw that he had a second Instagram account and I was like, that's really weird.

You would have a second Instagram account. He's like, Oh, like I got hacked and just made up this whole elaborate story. And again, I'm like, yeah, we live together. Why would he be cheated on me? So I dismissed it. Then there was like another time where,  um, I thought I saw him have a dating app on his phone.

Like I panicked, I freaked out. I asked him about it and he's like, Oh no, look, like nothing's on here. Like he deleted it quickly then showed me it's like small little things like that, where it's like, it's not a big enough of like a macro thing for you to end a relationship. But when you look back and see all the red dots or the red flags connecting, damn.

But then the final, final red flag was we, it was just like a normal day. We had both been laid off from our jobs during, um, We both like kind of worked in tech. And so we got laid off during mass,  whatever mass layoffs when that tech industry is being really hit. And I was studying in our office, in our apartment to be, um, focusing on this like breathwork teacher training that I was going through.

And he's in the room across.  Um, sitting at the desk and I just hear him pick up the phone and it's like really flirty, really weird voice like, Hey, you, and then he left the apartment and I just bent over and I literally grabbed my stomach like, Oh,  what the fuck just happened? Like, my body just knew something was wrong and.

He came back inside and I even like remember writing the time down on a piece of paper. I looked at what time, cause I wanted to see how long he was going to be outside for. Like my body immediately went into like, okay, we're going into protection mode. Like we need to figure everything out. So he comes back in.

He's like, so happy, like beaming. So, so happy. And  it's like, who are you just talking to? He's like, Oh my dad. Like he was just calling me. We finally figured out all this like car insurance stuff. And it had such an elaborate, detailed story. That actually did make sense because he had been talking to his dad about car insurance stuff.

And I was like, okay. Um, I guess like, again, I was like, we live together. How could you cheat on me? And then, uh, we go on dates later that day. Like we're having such a good time or with the dog, like going to all our favorite spots. And then that night he was sleeping on my lap. We were watching our favorite show and his phone was sitting on his phone, never sits out.

Like he always had it in his pocket, always carried it with him room to room. And it was sitting there and I was like, I have to go through his phone and  speaking of just like synchronicities from the universe like  two, like maybe two to four days before this, I was in the emergency room because I had an ovarian cyst erupture because I was so stressed.

I was like, I think something's going on in the relationship. I feel like I'm going crazy. Like he's perfect on pen and paper and like, it must be me. I must be the issue, but my body was screaming at me to wake up. And so while we're in the emergency room. I see him type his phone into his, or see him type his passcode into his phone.

And I was like, weird. That's not what it was two years ago when I knew what it was. So like, thankfully a few days before I saw the code and then his phone just happened to be sitting. I was like, this is a sign I have to go through it.  So I go through it and it was. Awful. Like the person he was on the phone with that day, he was actually FaceTiming a porn star.

They were talking about meeting up to get a hotel, hotel room together. They, I saw their whole like text conversation. They're sending each other nudes back and forth while we were on that date. She's. Kept mentioning this girl's name, Jess. I was like, who the fuck is Jess? And he just kept referring to her, her as his girlfriend.

And I was like, my name's Mandy. Things just were not adding up. And  so, yeah, that was the start of me finding out that he had a secret porn addiction and a secret sex addiction. And he was on polyamorous dating apps with this girl named Jess. This Jess girl came into his life before he even met me. Um, they, uh,  Yeah, it was, it was really weird.

So he was cheating on me the entire relationship. I had no idea. And that's when I learned what betrayal trauma is and just learning about this world of like a lot of men having  secret porn addictions and women just feeling blindsided when they find out it's absolutely heartbreaking. It's, I want no woman to ever go through this and that's why I speak up about it.

Now.  Oh my god, there's so much to unpack.  Okay. Right?  Um. Just trauma dumped.  I'm like, I knew  most of that.  Yeah. But  he, so he had this Jess person and then he thinks to bring you into his life.  As his normal stable foundation day to day,  and he's just out there dick swinging  with porn stars. How do you even meet, I mean, I guess it's easier these days now with OnlyFans, but I just think to myself, how do you even meet porn stars? 

Um, And then so say, like, let's hook up.  Yeah. So I can tell you exactly how they met. Um,  they met on Bumble.  So his whole way of like meeting with girls is Jess had a Bumble profile of them too.  And then she set her settings as bi. So she would get matched with girls. Jess would find. The girls and match with them and then be like, Hey, by the way, like, this is my boyfriend.

Would you want to hook up with him? So then he'd, she was basically like a pimp and I'm not saying like she was, I don't want that legal disclaimer or anything. She wasn't pimp. She's a normal girl, but  yeah. So she was finding people for him on all the dating apps.  So hang on, let me get this straight. He had. 

Every slice of the cake and he wasn't even doing any work.  He didn't have to do it. He didn't have to pick up the girls. Is that what you're telling me?  So,  yeah, not really. Yeah. He,  he had his system,  like he had a Oh my God, that's like evil genius shit. That is evil genius shit. Yeah. And it, it took me so long to even be able to figure out all those details.

Cause of course, like it was just getting like so much misinformation everywhere and essentially  Another girl from his life ended up reaching out to me when I came forward with everything and she actually helped me put some of the pieces together on things, which,  yeah, another reason why I love women.

We, we will help each other figure out information.  And we are literally the best private investigators you will ever find. So good. Cause the woman's intuition always knows something's off and we will dig until we find that information. Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, I, I don't remember if I told you this the last time we spoke, but I think I did when I found out my ex was still Talking to his ex and all that kind of stuff,  like you, like I'm, I'm not the kind of person that goes through people's stuff.

I'm just not, I'm like, if God wants me to know something, God will speak to me. I will just, it'll just come. The truth always, always prevails. And this one day we had had a huge fight the night before I had slept in the spare room and he goes to work early in the morning. So I had gone to make the bed of course, cause he hadn't and  his laptop was just sitting there. 

And I heard the voice of God say, open it.  And I literally looked up outside the window and I was like, really?  Like, you're going to want me to have this on my conscience? And I heard, yep.  And I was like, it's ridiculous. He has passwords on everything, but okay. Got his laptop, opened it up. It was an, it was a Mac book and he has an Apple iPhone and it just logged in.

No password required. I was like, Oh my gosh. And I was just like, I've got no idea how to use Apple products. Right. But on this day,  I just became, uh, one of those Apple people at the store and I just  started just typing things and looking at things. Noticed that he had a  two folders.  One folder was all his ex, and he had called it past,  and the other folder was, uh, future.

And it was all our photos,  but I was able to find this little, um, thing that I guess is the icon for messages on a, on an iPhone. And I started reading through all the messages he was going through with his ex. And to her,  you know, I'm actually really, she was trying to tell him to back off. And she kept saying.

Cause he, he kept going at her and messaging her and she's like, sorry, I haven't responded. I'm just being mindful because you have a girlfriend now and I've got someone. And you know, but she was, she's. Trying to be nice, I guess, but at the same time, there's all these photos of her in a change room. Like, what do you think of this outfit?

And then photos of her with her legs just showing a little bit of her panties, like they were sending all these photos back and forth to each other. And it was, it was during COVID and I remember him saying he had already said, I love you at this point, right? It had been like six or eight months in where these messages were going back and forth.

And he's saying to her,  Oh, it's too soon to tell. I mean, we're just, it's just COVID.  Don't really know where this is going.  Wow. Yeah. So I remember thinking, you pig, you pig, we just bought a house together. You pig. No. Like it was, yeah, so it was bad. Like we were in that house for three, a month before, when I found everything out, I had the house for three months and I put it back on the market. 

Oh my gosh. So it was hell, but so many things, it's like you said, so many things happened beforehand. I had issues with the mover.  That didn't show up at the time he was meant to, to move me out of my old apartment,  right? Wow. Yeah. He just went radio silent on me for the whole day and I was crying and shit was really bad and he was getting angry at me and I'm like, instead of being supportive,  like he's just getting mad at me and he went off for a drive.

Like he'd do random shit like that and I was just like, and he carried his phone everywhere with him too.  So.  Yeah. First of all, I, I'm so sorry you went through that. That's horrible. No woman should ever have to go through that and especially like seeing the photos, that's, that's awful. That's horrible. Um.

But that's, it's creepy because now that I speak out about this more, there's so many girls who come to me with a very similar story where like, I found albums, photo albums on his phone of other girls and it will be like girls they know, or like girls they went to high school or college with, or like their own siblings and I'm just like, Oh.

It is, it's so terrifying just how,  just like how, how much it can escalate and just the damaging effects and consequences there are for girls that have to be on the receiving end of that and having no idea that's going on. And it's also interesting how you mentioned, um, did you say you just moved into the house?

Yeah. Yeah. We hadn't lived together before that. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I've also heard so many stories of that where the girl, like it was right before they're going to get engaged or after engaged or right before they're going to get married or right before they're about to move in where they find out this major piece of information.

And that's actually what happened in my last relationship too, like two months before we moved in. That's when I started going to a therapist cause I was like, we had, we had a weird slip up in the relationship where he wasn't being honest about, uh, ex girlfriend and. If I look back now, I'm like, dang, that was like God or the universe trying to make, no, no, no, like I'm going to put information out to make you not move forward with this and like, try to stop it in its track.

So yeah, it's,  it's so weird how much this things add up like that when you're able to look back and see it.  I remember at the beginning and, and I'm, I'm thinking about this because.  It's a domino effect. At the beginning, when I questioned him why his ex girlfriend was still on his Instagram, he said to me, It's girls like you that make us think women are crazy. 

And I was like, I'm sorry. Normally that would have made me crawl into my shell, but I was like, Um, I've just questioned you as to why you're still friends with your ex on Instagram. And that's your response. So, and that was really early on, but like you just said, like,  there are so many signs that try to stop you.

And there were, there were a million, I could literally list them off the top of my head. And it was like, you know, four or five years ago now. But I think to myself,  Okay,  men think that we're crazy because our instincts go off, but it's really because we've just found something out about you that you didn't want us to know.

And we take that, if we don't do the healing work, we take that into the next relationship and anything that resembles even the  slightest, you know, if there's a slightest similarity, our instincts go off. So no, it's not that we're crazy. It's that we have trauma. So, unless you find someone who is compassionate and understands and is actually not doing those things,  you know, you're not putting yourself in a space where you can heal from that.

So, when you have girls coming to you,  you know, in a one on one capacity, because you now coach women who are going through these things. What are they coming to you with?  Yeah, I would say it's a mixture. Some girls are like, I just discovered about the addiction and I left and I just feel stuck. I feel behind in life.

I feel like all my friends are married or engaged or in long term relationships. And now I'm just the single friend and I'm just like behind and stuck. And like they lost their identity. They were such like a  girlfriend or wife. Like they just lost their, like. Their whole image. So it's really just like rebuilding that and like, okay, like how do we, yes, process these emotions and grieve them and grieve the relationship you thought you had, but also mourning the relationship and grief in your future.

But also how do we like work on regulating your nervous system and doing that from a trauma informed lens so that you can then move forward and rebuild and create a new life and create a new identity for yourself.  But then on the other hand, I'll have girls come to me who are still in the relationship and  they don't know if they want to leave or not.

And that's fine. I,  I think every relationship is different. Like some relationships can reconcile and work through it or others. I,  the man is just such an entitled piece of ass. I don't see it ever working out, but.  But my, my, that's a sign of my whole goal is just like empowering the women and like helping her learn, like what healthy and unhealthy signs are in relationship.

And just again, like nervous system regulation. That's my number one thing I want to focus on because like, we can't  take in any new information. Like it doesn't matter how many books we read or podcasts we listen to, or coaches or therapists we like watch on social media. Like if you cannot regulate your nervous system, get out of that fight or flight mode. 

You literally will not retain any of that information anyways, and it's just going to be trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger, and you're not going to be able to move forward. So the main thing I try to do is just like nervous system regulation. And then from there we create on building this new you, building a new life and helping you move forward in confidence too. 

What are some of the things that you noticed at the first sites? I feel like that intuition piece when you, when you feel like something's not right. Like that's the first sign,  however, are there signs that you're coming across in the sessions that you're speaking with women? Because I feel like it's, it changes and it changes rapidly because it's so accessible now, porn.

Like when I was in my 20s, this was not something that,  I didn't even know it was a thing. Like it was so taboo. No one ever saw it. Spoke about stuff like that.  And, um, so are you noticing that there are some signs and signals that, you know, women can pay attention to that  not necessarily start making them suspicious.

Cause we don't want people to start, you know, super sleuthing around their relationship when there's no need to, but other things that come up that seem to be consistent. In the conversations that you're having that some women who may be in that situation right now just have this feeling can be like, you know what?

Yeah, he does that. And he does that too.  Yeah, the first thing that comes to mind and that I hear the most is intimacy, like having sex with the person. And this was one of my biggest like red flags too, because we weren't having sex often, like even when we first met, we weren't having that like honeymoon phase where we can't keep our hands off each other.

And we would like have I would have like multiple conversations with him where I would just be crying in tears being like, I feel like I'm the only one initiating sex. You never want to have sex with me. This hasn't been a relationship in past,  or there hasn't been an issue in past relationships. Like usually we're having sex all the time.

Like I'm young. Like I, Like I'm horny. Like I want to have sex too. Like this, you're not meeting me halfway. And it was always like, Oh, like I'm tired or, Oh, I'm stressed with work. They're just such like easy to believe excuses. Oh, like, okay. Yeah. Maybe you are stressed. Maybe you are tired.  But the more I started like researching that after the fact, and even actually sign up my, the therapist I was working with, I didn't know it at the time, but she specialized in porn addiction.

So after.  So once I was able to tell her everything I found, she's like, Oh my gosh, she has a porn addiction. This makes so much sense. And so then we were talking about intimacy. She's like, that's one of the big red flags of it. And that's something I hear a lot with other girls where it's like, either the man isn't, isn't initiating sex at all.

They're not having it often. And  I even like, don't talk about this much on social media because I get so many comments of people being like, Oh, well, like, Throughout relationships as you get older, you just like have less sex. It's normal. And like, there's so many people dismissing it,  which sure, of course, that's normal too, but like, it's just different when you're not having sex because this sex drive is low compared to when you're not having sex is your, your guy's jacking off to other girls every single day, like that's,  they don't have any sexual energy because they're getting their  sexual desires met by all these other women and But then I've also heard other women who have gone through it like we were having sex all the time like an insane amount so it's not like one or the other but also something to look for when it comes to the sex is just like  Something for me and that I've heard other girls too.

It's like it just didn't feel like he was like physically he was in the room with me, but like Intimately, mentally, and emotionally, he wasn't there, like, he would avoid eye contact a lot, like, he couldn't finish if we were, like, looking at each other, like, in the face, he'd always, like, have me from behind or something, and it would, it just felt like I was just, like, an object to him, and there'd be times after sex where I would just cry because I just felt so used, like, he never did anything aggressive, like, nothing like that, um, but it just feels, like, so  emotionless, and. 

I just never had that issue in a relationship before, which just felt very odd to me. Um, so that's something also obviously just like being weird about the phone usage like that.  Um, like even just like taking the phone with them everywhere, like room for room, like I. I do that a lot as a person, too, just because we're all pretty addicted to our phones.

Um, but like taking it to the bathroom and being there for like 45 minutes, like multiple times a day. Like, sir, if you're in the bathroom that much, like, go to a digestive specialist to see if something's going on. But a lot of times you'll hear men who are foreign porn addicts be like, Yeah, I would just go to the bathroom and watch it because that's like your only private place to be. 

Um,  But I'm trying in a bathroom?  I've heard of guys jacking off, like, in car parking lots, like, on, like, driving to work, like, in the work bathroom. Like, it's, like, anywhere they can, like, okay, great, like, let me get my fix in right now. It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's wild. It's just even cool, like, I just  Times have changed so much and maybe it's because I wasn't, I don't know.

I don't know. 20 years ago, this wasn't such a thing, but you know, you and I know, both know that this is a well oiled system that profits and benefits from the mental degradation of men and women. Yep. And it's literally. Shrinking brains.  Yes. It's like the brain matter.  Yes. What are some of the other stats that you come across with, with what porn is actually doing to the minds of, of men and women now? 

Yeah. Um,  I'm trying to think of ones that come to mind right off the top of my back, right off of my head. Um, so something that's really. worrisome about porn in general is it's very similar to cigarettes where you become desensitized to it and it becomes an escalated behavior. So you need more. So like, for example, like when you, someone starts smoking cigarettes, they start with like one cigarette and then escalates to two and then five, and then you're smoking a whole pack a day.

That same thing happens with porn because of how addictive it is. So you might start by watching it.  Once a day or a few times a week and then you need more and more and more and more and most So then you find yourself doing it multiple times a day or finding more intense content which is then you even enter into like child pornography or bestiality or incest and rape and like gang rapes and it's It's heartbreaking how much the level of content escalates.

Um,  so that would be the biggest thing. But I, I feel like I'm not an expert when it comes to how it impacts brains. Just 'cause  I also know there'd be like neuroscientists out there that would like Correct what I have to say so quickly. Totally. If I, if I say like one word, one word incorrectly, so I'm like, I'll leave like the, like expert experts up to that.

Like, I love fight The new drug has. It's such an amazing resource called Truth About Porn, where they talk about all the ways it impacts your brain and it's, they, they don't do any of the research studies themselves. So it's third party. So it's very reputable. Um, so that's an amazing resource to go to for more.

Um, but I do have some stats that I'd love to share on how it impacts relationships if that works. Yeah. Please. Okay. Um, so I'll read these word for word just cause I don't want to ever like give false information about stats. Um, so this one always shocks me. So a study, um, tracked couples over a six year period.

And the goal was to see like what factors influenced their marriage quality and satisfaction with their sex lives. And the researchers found that all the factors they considered porn consumption was the second strongest indicator marriage would suffer. So there's so many research that say if porn is. 

if porn is in the relationship, it's going to suffer. And in this specific one, since porn was the second strongest sign a relationship would suffer, the first strongest sign was just that the  couples are already unhappy before the study started. So take that with a grain of salt. But when I read that, I'm like, wow, okay, so porn is the second, is the largest indicator that a relationship will suffer if you're happy in a marriage, which  is crazy.

And then, um, There's another study in 2011 that found that individuals who watched porn alone reported higher rates of cheating on their partners, and they were twice as likely to cheat compared to couples who didn't watch porn at all. And then individuals who viewed porn alone and with their partner reported three times the rate of cheating.

So, Yeah, it's, it's wild. And I remember when I was first confronting my partner about his porn use. I was like, I just feel you're going to cheat on me and it freaks me out. And I've heard that from so many other girls. It's like, yeah, because it de sensitizes you. It teaches you to objectify women, so you're not viewing women as equals or as people who have thoughts, feelings, and emotions.

You're just viewing them as this object, and  yeah, it's over screened, but eventually that's how you're going to start to look at people in real life too, including the woman that you love, which is,  yeah, it's just heartbreaking. And then, Another study from 2015 said that women whose partners consume porn tend to experience more psychological distress, feel more objectified, have poorer body image, and are even likely to develop eating disorder symptoms.

So whenever, like,  I feel like something that's so hard about betrayal trauma and, like, discovering porn use or porn addiction, as a woman, you're like, what's wrong with me? Like, why?  Like, why can't I be attractive enough or, like, fulfill his sexual needs enough or whatever? Maybe you just blame yourself.

But I think it's so interesting, like, hearing that study being like,  almost every woman experiences psychological distress. They all feel objectified. They all have poor body image. And most of them develop eating disorder symptoms. Like,  it's just such a widespread, like, and it's just so sad how much it's  impacts women who didn't even sign up for this.

Like we didn't want to be in this relationship with the porn. You just like, we thought you were being honest about who you were and now we have this trauma because of you. Fuck that. Like that just feels so entitled to me to be a man and to bring this into your relationship, knowing what you have, but you just don't speak up because you have shame.

Which I, I understand that there's shame, but I still don't think that excuses lying and cheating and hiding this from your partner. Like, I just don't think you should even get into a relationship if you're not ready to be fully honest with your partner about what you're bringing into the partnership. 

I get the shame piece, right? I get it. And at the same time, I think to myself, you know, what you're doing  is naughty. Like, you know that you can't talk about it because you know how women feel about it. It's like, it's similar to, you know, guys going to strip clubs and I just,  I don't understand. 

I do and I don't, right. Cause I sit here and I'm like, well, why wouldn't a guy want to see it? They're so simple minded in comparison to us. And I don't mean that in a negative way. They actually are. There, there are studies that show that our brains are so different and women's brains are so much more complex and our brains, uh, wire and fire very differently.

And, and what men need and what women need are very different.  So I understand that in, you know, in a way they have  more basic instinct desire type needs and they want to see a woman naked and it's just easy because then there's no responsibility of anything after that. Right. And so,  I, I, there, there,  when I think of unpacking this conversation, I think to myself,  men just want something quick, easy and zero accountability at the end of it.

So is that what we're teaching or is that like a basic instinct type behavior?  Because when I look at the animal kingdom, I watch a lot of documentaries and I love animals. So, you know, a lot of the time women, when they're ready to, to mate, they will go, they Spray their bits on things or, you know, whatever.

And, and they choose whoever they want to mate with because they need to fall pregnant. And then the guy just kind of pisses off and she raises.  The children for the most part.  And so  is it a natural thing for men to do that? Or is it that we've taught our boys to do that as, as women and as, as men, you know, as a mother and a father. 

So that's one aspect of where my brain goes. And the other is that.  If women just stop doing this to themselves in, in the sense that stop doing porn, stop being a stripper, have some like self respect and go do something and make money in a, you know, in a more, you know, respectable way, my opinion, obviously not everyone's opinion, um,  If women stopped that, then men wouldn't have that to fall back on. 

So there's a bit of a chicken and egg situation for me, because who's responsible? We both are in a way, but then who's responsible for, for it being such a problem?  Yeah. Yeah, so  something I can add on that and I've,  what I've discovered about like the porn use and the porn star, I had so much anger towards sex workers.

I was like, fuck all of you for putting yourself even in this situation for men to just lust after. Then I also like had a reality check was like, well, no, fuck my boyfriend. He was the one that was like, Going against my back. These, these girls aren't doing that. Like it's, it's him. He's the cheater. He's the liar.

He's the manipulator. He's the gaslighter, not them. Um, but I did come across this really sad stat. I think I'm going to get the percentage wrong, but I want to say it was like 64%. Um, but saying 64 percent of women who are sex workers or strippers, I guess those are the same, um, experienced some type of child abuse, um, like sexual child abuse when they're younger.

And. Sometimes that's just like a trauma response when you experience  something at such a young age or really any age that then you either go one of two ways where you want nothing to do with sex, you're like, I'm cutting off from all that, or the other route was like, you just go so heavily into it because that's just like your body trying to find homeostasis from a trauma response lens, which is extremely sad.

But. Even aside from  the women, going back to your common sense and the men, I, my personal opinion is that we are just way too easy on men and just do the boys will be, say boys will be boys and just like, don't hold them accountable for the shit that they're doing. And  I do feel like a lot of it, of course, comes from like childhood upbringing, like even at, like, when you talk to like young school girls, like they're not treated as equals.

to men even in school. And I feel like men just grow up with this sense of entitlement where they don't  look at women as equals or partners. They're just like, women are like a tear down from them. And  that makes me so mad too. And like, I, again, like I understand the shame aspect of the addiction. But to me, I'm like, at what point are we just going to start calling it domestic violence and entitlement that the brain is bringing, that the man is bringing into the relationship?

Like, let's,  let's call it what it is. Like you're intentionally gaslighting, manipulating, lying to a person because you know, they won't be with you. If they find out who you really are, like you are literally. stealing someone's sense of reality and the psychological distress you're going to cause this person is so profound.

And what shocks me is when  I'll hear men be like, Oh, I just really didn't think that my porn use would bother her.  And I'm just like, there's no way you genuinely did not think that you jacking off to other women's naked bodies every single day, having fake social media accounts, having fake Reddit. It's like,  Meeting up with sex workers, you generally didn't think that was going to hurt her.

There's no way you can be so disconnected from reality. Like that's,  I don't know. That's just.  That's a cop out, Mandy. That is such a, oh, I didn't know. That's like a, like anyone who's trying to.  Not be accountable for something. Oh, I didn't know. Like get  fucked.  Yes. So mad. And I love that you just said, like, you know,  we are too, too soft on them.

And I hear all the time, boys will be boys. And that gets me so like riled up because I think to myself, well, no, you're telling him. By saying boys will be boys, that it's okay, that this is his behavior and he'll eventually grow out of it. And I see, you know, parents do it from a very young age to their little boys, and it's, it's a lot of them are females, boys will be boys.

You know, he'll just push you around. That means he likes you. Rubbish.  So you spend the rest of your life going after guys who push you away in a really distant and you're like, Oh, it's because he likes me so much. He doesn't know how to deal with it. Like it's such crap that we're feeding young girls and then they grow up to  I don't, I use this word not in a, in a derogatory way at all.

I use it from a book. I don't know if you're familiar with Why Men Love Bitches.  And. No, but I'm intrigued by that title. Oh my goodness gracious,  I, so I,  someone passed it on to me during a really tough time in my relationship, uh, when, when I actually moved back from overseas and I'd left my fiance at the time and I was really struggling.

And so now whenever I find another woman who. Is in a place where I'm like, you know what, that's where I was, I either give, gift them the book or I recommend the book. And  while we've gone off topic in the book, they call, uh, it's the bitch and the doormat.  And so when I read this book, it taught me at first, I was like, this is pissing me off.

It's telling me to be different to who I am, which is someone who is very giving, very nurturing, super loving,  but what I didn't realize, and this was my takeaway, it's not everybody's takeaway was that I was doing that.  To people who didn't,  who hadn't yet proved that they were worth all of those valuable things that I had to give.

And so you're either a doormat or you're a bitch. And when they use the word bitch, they don't use it in a, in a, in a way that we would, you know, try to offend someone. It's someone who is selfish  and putting themselves first.  Right? And so,  I, I don't remember why we got on  this route, I'm like telling you about the book, but anyway.

I had to, you know, it's um, yeah, completely I've gone off why we, why did, why did I bring this book up? So I was going to call it a doormat, and I was going to say. We were talking about how we were too soft on men. Boys will be boys, not being held accountable. Yes, beautiful. And so that's when I read that book, I realized, wow, I've been a doormat everywhere in my life and I literally let men walk all over me.

I let women walk all over me. I used to let friends walk all over me just because I was like, no, people don't like,  people want nice girls. Nice girls. Yep. Nice. Finish. Last, you know ? Yep. No they don't. Mm-hmm . Um, but Nice girls is no opinions. Yep. Don't say anything unless you're spoken to. Just sit there and look pretty.

Yep. You know, don't be too difficult. Just be, be sweet. Yeah. Uhhuh  . Yeah, and that's what gets you in all these unhealthy relationships. I, I can relate to this so much. And  I feel like even when it comes to like healing from whether it be a narcissist or a cheater or a porn addict, you have to get so selfish with your healing.

You have to set such firm boundaries with people because you don't even like going back to what we were just saying, like, At such a young age, we're taught that women have to be soft and not and sweet and kind and gentle and just like not happy to opinionated and well, that's what makes you become a doormat.

People just walk all over you. And it's not that you have to be like a raging bitch. That's not at all. It's just like having boundaries for your time for your energy.  Telling people, like showing people how you expect to be, be treated. Like if you're not going to put up boundaries,  a man will latch onto that so quickly and just walk all over you.

Because I feel like women, we are just, it's a blessing and a curse. We are so loving. We're so giving, we're so nurturing. And so we expect that.  Men or this other person will be like that too,  but they're not because they don't, they don't have our hearts and  yeah I don't know where I was going with that.

But just some thoughts  Yeah, and while you were just saying that I was just thinking to myself It's that balance of the masculine and feminine, right? Women have become so  Rooted in masculine energy that we don't know anymore how to be  Soft and nurturing and all those things while putting up boundaries, because to us, and I don't know about you, but my upbringing taught me that if, you know, as long as you're pretty thin and marry well, you're, you're a successful woman, right?

So there was never a thing about going and studying and going opening businesses and whatever else. It was always about how well you married and how, what the size of your waist and if you're, if you're pretty or not. But yeah, growing up in that environment, that just taught me. I was, and so  that's what I did.

I was like, you've got to get the prize bull. You've got to tame the wild animal. And you're the one who's successful because you were the only one that could do that.  And that just sets you up for all kinds of heartbreak and failure because you're literally chasing guys that  love the chase. They love being chased.

And they love the chase for themselves as well. So,  you know, again, growing up, you just think to yourself, Oh, you know, guys, boys, boys are meant to go sow their oats and women, it should be good girls. Cause when they're ready, they're going to come looking for the good girls to marry.  Yep. And that just pisses me right off.

Yep. And then even on top of that, it just has you chasing, like, spending so much time on your external appearance and what life looks like to other people, and how your hair looks, how your skin looks, like, your physical appearance, and just how your life is perceived, that you don't even take time to, like, work on.

The inner you, like your, like your feelings, your emotions, your childhood trauma, like actually healing that to become the best version of you. And yeah, it just, it just sets you up for failure. And I feel like so many women have been spoon fed this. I don't even want to say false likes. It's not always true.

But just like the number one thing you need in life is a male partner. And then once you have that, you'll be all happy and like there'll be no pain in your life. Like there's still so many other areas. Of your life that you need to nurture, like your career, your health, your friendships, your sense of community, your hobbies, your activities.

Like, it's not like one is more important than another. We need them all to have a full, like healthy ecosystem.  And if you don't nurture the self, Mandy, like it's like, how are you, how are you supposed to find the right partner? How are you supposed to know that when something comes up, your intuition is, is spot on.

If you don't know to listen to your intuition. So one of the things that I've, I mean, I turned 40 this year, but I think to myself when I was in my twenties,  my intuition was so loud, so loud. And I suppressed it and suppressed it. I was like, nah, I'm crazy. I'm the one who's I'm, I'm insecure. I must be insecure.

And so I just  put it so far down. I was like, it must be because I'm, I'm insecure.  Yeah,  but no, it's not.  Yeah. And it's, now I know, geez, now I'm married and I, you know, my filter's so strong. If this, if this version of me was out in the dating world, wowser,  for sure. Like, yeah. Not that I wanna be dating this day and age.

It was, yeah. It's, it's so bad out there from what I hear. And I just, one of the things actually, I'd love to get your perspective on, to see, you know, what you're seeing in, in, in your work is, are you finding that. Some women are like, you know what, fuck this. I'm just going to live a promiscuous life because  if guys can do it, so can I.

And they're actually choosing to go from who they really are to sharing themselves with guys that they don't necessarily like or, you know, trying to change who they are to try to fit into this landscape that we've kind of got at the moment.  Yeah. Um, I feel like I don't come across too many girls who are choosing that route.

A lot of the girls. But I do know a lot of girls in general do do that. Um, because the hookup culture is just so just like ingrained in the subconsciously. We don't even realize it. Um, but  I would say for the most part, a lot of the girls I speak and work with who left their partner and they're going back in the dating world, like they might have like.

a guy that they have like some fun with for a very short period of time.  And then they just like realize they're not ready to be dating or something happens or  just even to begin with, they now have like such low self worth and insecurities about their body where they don't even want to be physically intimate with a man because one, you don't know, like, is this guy just addicted to porn?

Is it going to be another cycle all over again? Like, is he just going to be comparing my body to all the girls he sees on his phone every day? Like, is he just going to be comparing me or thinking of other women while we have sex?  So, like, and  I actually see a lot of girls choosing not to be intimate with men and just focusing on themselves, which I think that's so powerful.

Like, hell yeah, go girl, like nothing bad will ever come of, come out from just focusing on yourself. Um,  yeah. But then again, it also sucks that one of the reasons that girls are doing that is because we just feel so like  betrayed sexual, like it feels scary to open ourselves up to someone like that, but it's not a for everything at least.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah.  I mean, and I wonder sometimes too, right? Like,  it's so easy for guys after a breakup to just go jump on the next available  female.  And for us,  we, we do tend to like,  I don't know if it's still a thing, but, and I, and I, I was going to say I wonder, but I'm, I'm thinking of experience.

Whenever I've gone through a really significant breakup, especially in a relationship where I have felt like I am, Not, they're not attracted to me or, you know, I don't feel beautiful anymore. To find that person that suddenly makes you feel amazing, even though you're not really interested in him, there's that sense of kind of filling your cup back up to remind yourself, no, you've still got it, you know, it doesn't matter what you look like, I really believe that everyone has something so beautiful about them.

Regardless of what they look like, some of the best looking people have the worst personality. So yes, I just think to myself, we're all beautiful in, in, in our own way, but there's, there is something about that first, uh, You know, person you interact with that just adores you and you feel so good about yourself.

And, and I totally get that  if you did get intimate, you'd be like, Oh no, no, I'm not ready for this. But those compliments and those  moments of being seen  is everything. After experiencing that level of trauma and betrayal. Did you go through something like that after your breakup?  Um, to be honest, I got really grossed out by men.

I mean, what you went through was pretty shit. Like, that's not standard shit, you know, that's a lot of shit. Yeah, um, but I, I feel like in a different way, like my Male wound has been more healers from finding like good guy friends and be like, okay, like,  I don't know. I, I tried dating for a while and I was just like, I just don't feel ready for it.

And it just like, wasn't that fun. I was like,  I just have so much more fun when like, I'm out with my female girls, even if we're just like having a movie night or doing something. It's like that, like our conversations are so much more deeper. We're actually having like very meaningful conversations about life and like the purpose of life.

First, like  I feel like it's very rare to have that conversation with a guy, especially like a guy you just started dating. So like, I don't even want to spend my time on that right now. Um, but finding like healthy guy friends has been more helpful just to be reminded, like, okay, good guys exist. Not all men cheat.

Not all men are addicted to porn. And I didn't have to find that out by getting hurt again. So that felt nice.  Do you think  A guy and a girl can be friends.  Um, 

yes and no. You know, I'm going to start Yeah, I sit in that too. I'm going to say mostly no, and I say this because all of the guy friends I had, they weren't like, for long years. It was like,  each a different one depending on where I was living at the time. And  It is frustrating because you have to make it very clear that this is just like a friendship, but also in the back of your mind, you know that they would hook up with you if they could, like they're a man at the end of the day,  uh, but I do think men can respect boundaries like, okay, this is just a friendship  and I'll just leave it as that.

Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. And I, I, I think that  it's, it's usually from the, the men's side that that's why like I just think to myself, I think it's funny when, especially, um, you know, you're in a relationship and. You continue to keep certain friends of the opposite sex while you're in that relationship. And I think that there's a certain point up until a certain point that it makes sense to.

But once you realize that you're in a serious relationship with someone, whenever you include someone that is of the opposite sex into that equation, there's always going to be some kind of thought to it. And it's, and I don't necessarily think that it's insecurity. Like you can please correct me, but I don't necessarily think it's insecurity.

I just think it's being respectful, like, especially if you're, I would never, I would Ever, ever, ever go have dinner with one of my, I don't care how long I've been friends with one of my guy friends, and I have, I've, I've had longstanding friends, but we spend time together and then I move away and then we spend time together and then I'm back.

Like I'm kind of in and out of their lives,  um, but I would never go and have dinner with a guy. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. Can you imagine if someone saw me? I'm like, I am a representation of my husband when he's not around.  But also I would never want to make him feel like he can't be part of the conversation or, or something, but even then I never, I have never kept a relationship.

My guy friends close to me when I'm in a serious relationship. What do you think of that? Yeah. No, I agree I lost all of my guy friends when I was in my last relationship I also just lost a lot of friends in general like female friends too Just because I didn't even realize how much like how emotionally mentally draining My ex partner was like if you would ask me during a relationship like this is the perfect relationship We're having so much fun together.

Like when I look back and read my journal entries, I was so Such a sad person. I just didn't remember it like that, which is crazy. But yeah, I lost a lot and also lost, I would say  every single one of my guy friends, because he was like, why are you talking to this guy? Why are you around him? But also at the same time, I was like, I don't need guy friends.

Cause I'm like getting my male  like fix. Like I don't need more than one. Guy in my life and and actually no now that I think about it Like I feel like then you become friends with like his guy friends it's like your guy friends kind of go to the side and then you like spend time with his guy friends instead and  Yeah, so I don't know it isn't interesting do I but I feel like if you're gonna be friends with a guy and You're both single or even a relationship.

You have to have such clear boundaries. Like no, I'm not gonna go get like A candlelit dinner with you, or like, no, I'm not going to go to a movie with you. Like, we can like, go for a walk and like, walk your dog around the block or something. Like, there's like, different things that are like, not romantic and doesn't give off, like, like, I'm not going to go and like, hang out with you and sit on your couch, like, and watch a movie.

Like, that's just weird. Yeah, that's two Netflix and chill vibes. Like, I'd be like, well, what do you think is going to happen if I'm coming over to your house and hanging out just us two? Like, it's just too much of an invitation to, for him to think that there's something going on. So yeah, those boundaries are really important.

I love that you've said that because I don't think, I think that with the hookup culture at the moment, and from what I hear and from what I remember,  not that I've ever participated in it really, but, You know, there is that, well, I may as well, I'm single,  you know, like, Oh, okay. He's kind of cute. Whatever.

Let's, let's do this. And then you're kind of in a state of, well, what does that mean now?  Yeah. I tried, I tried having that, like, for maybe like a month and a half, maybe a month. I don't know, but try and be like, Oh, like I'm single. Like I was in a foreign country, like I'm just going to have fun with guys.

And I was like, I'm so empowered. Yeah. I was like, I'm so empowered. Like, stay here.  Right, right. And then I just felt like crap, like two days later, every time. And it was just like, why am I, this isn't empowering. This isn't liberating. This is like giving a man access to like my both prized possession, like my body, like me, my womb and like, he, why would I just give that to a man for what, like 10 minutes of fun?

And the sex was probably mediocre to begin with anyways, like it's,  yeah, I don't know. I, I feel like I'm glad I had that phase as sure as it was. It was just, yeah. Because now it's been like over a year of me having no interest in doing that, which feels good.  Yeah.  And when you think about the work that you do, like, what is it that you really love?

What's your North Star for  the business that you have? Yeah, my North Star is 

I'm taking a break because I feel like I'm going to cry when I say this.  Oh, please do. My North Star is the version of me. Like, I think back to her all the time. When I just found out, I was like crying every single day. I was having panic attacks.  I thought it was my fault, thought,  it's because I wasn't worthy enough because I wasn't attractive because like I did something wrong and like wanting to end my life because of it and I think of that version of me and I know there were so many women out there who feel the exact same way and like I will make this my life mission because I don't want any female to ever feel like that.

I want her to know that like she couldn't have done anything to prevent it or stop it. It had nothing to do with her. Like, This person is showing you a very big character flaw and it's so important to believe it because you have no idea how much it will escalate in the years to come. And I just like,  it just breaks my heart thinking of all the girls who are having sleepless nights, who are waking up with nightmares.

Terrorists who think they can't even go out in public anymore or trust anyone, all because  they, knowingly, they entered a relationship with a guy who promised to be nice, who promised to respect them, who promised to be loyal, and was the very opposite of that, and,  I have a support group for women and it breaks, honestly, like they are my north star and all day I just see all these comments come in and some days I'll have to turn it off because it's just so  It's so many sad comments like I make sure like I read all of them just because like I want To make sure everything's like first of all safe and like people are safe But just like I see so much of myself in every sad comment that comes through like that version of me who was just who just found out about the betrayal and felt so sad and hopeless and I was like I You Like to literally have the thought like I want to end my life because I don't think  It is possible to come out of this pain.

Like that's how deep it is  It just makes me so mad that any girl has to go through that. So My north star is Seeing the women who are like in the thick of their pain and trying to be like, okay, how can I help you? And how can I let you know that like, things get so much better, like they get so much better.

And like, I'm,  I always feel, I'm always so hesitant to say this because I don't want it to come across someone at the wrong part of their healing journey. Like looking back, I'm so thankful for. Everything this man put me through because it changed my life in ways. I never thought was possible. And, but I remember when I first found out the betrayal, people would be like, something really good is going to come out of this.

I'm like, fuck you. Like I, I, I hate you right now. Like I'm just. So much pain. I haven't slept in like eight days. I wake up with night terrors every single night. Like, how dare you say something good is going to come out of this, but it's true. Like, and that's, what's so frustrating about, but it's also good.

Like it taught me how to use my voice. It taught me how to set boundaries. It taught me how to leave my unfulfilling job and start one that I was passionate about, taught me how to like create new friends with females and. Like supportive, caring, like uplifting girls, girls. It taught me how to find something that I'm passionate about.

It helped me strengthen like relationships, my family members with like, every single aspect of my life was changed. Like I started eating healthier. I mean, I was already like a pretty healthy person, but it's just like a totally different level of healthy. And like, now I get to pack up my life and I'm going to go travel the world and just be a digital nomad.

Like that's something I've dreamed of my entire life. And none of this would have ever happened. If I didn't meet that shitty man and like, yes, like what they do is so painful, but it can get so much better  and it does get better. Like it's. You have no idea how good life can get by removing this one toxic leech out of your life.

And you'll have so much more energy to focus on yourself and be selfish about yourself and your time and your healing and your boundaries and your friendships. And  yeah, so that's my North Star is just thinking of like how bad I was or how bad I felt compared to like where I am now in life. And I want to get every girl from the trenches to like creating her dream fucking life.

Like that is, that is my goal.  As you were talking, I remembered a meme and it kind of circles back to what we were kind of talking about at the beginning. I don't know if you've seen this meme, but it's basically this woman lying down on a, you know, day bed. It's like an olden day kind of photo. So I'm lying down on a day bed and someone's standing over her with a brick in their hand.

And it's basically saying, you know, when you don't Um, when you miss all the signs from the universe, you're basically gonna get hit in the head with a brick. Um, and I think that every single time that we go through something really bad, like you were saying, you knew there were so many times that you knew something wasn't right and you didn't listen to the universe mm-hmm

When it was trying to speak to you in whispers that it literally needed to hit you over the head with something really terrible Yes. For you to change course in your life. And now you've put yourself on a path that is. You're, you know, you're living your best life. You're living something that you've obviously dreamed of for a really long time, but something that you probably didn't even know was possible for you because you just never thought of that.

No idea. Yeah. I never would have thought it was  ever possible. And I do agree so much with what you said, like the universe will hit you in the face with a brick as hard as it can as a wake up call to be like, Hey, this is not the life I had planned for you. I have something so much better for you. And when I first found out about the trail, I was like,  I don't like the universe.

I don't like God. I don't like anything right now. Like, how would, how could any of that exist if I'm going through something so painful? But now I look at it, I'm like, no, like, the universe is just trying to protect you. And be like, hey, we have a better life plan for you. Like, this is not it. Like, You're like having the enemy win like this is like demonic what's in your life right now We have something so much better for you Like we want to get you out and we're going to support you and like you're going to get out like that's how you're now where's the universe is like no girl like  This is not it.

This is not the life I have for you. Like it's going to be so much better Yeah. I mean, cutting the cord's never easy. You can't really cold turkey anything, you kind of need to wean yourself off most addictions in life. But when it comes to toxic relationships, you need to cut it, like cut, cut, cut. And that's what I think sometimes is really hard because you're like, well, I had a life yesterday and today  it's gone.

And you have to make peace with that because, you know, like you said, it's, it's, you're being put on a different path and like, I love that, look, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But if we had done all the healing work that we could be doing every single day and just practicing that,  I think that we'd be better prepared to make choices in our lifestyle to walk away from things that we know aren't serving us because we know better.

And then, after that, you'll know better then. Maya Angelou, what's this, what's her quote, when you know better, you do better. And I just, because that also kind of gives me relief that, well,  five years ago I didn't know better, now I know better. And in five years time, I'll know even better than I know now.

So,  yeah, I love that you've been put on the path that you've been put on. I would never have found you, you know, Victoria Sinis is who connected us and I'm so grateful that she did because having, you know, your Instagram, it's hilarious. So if, if you guys aren't following, I will, I will share it eventually and we'll talk about it later where everyone can find you, but I love what you post and I love the way that you post it.

And I think to myself. Had you known all the things that you know now  about yourself, about what it is about being a woman, what advice would you give to your younger self?  Trust your gut.  Trust the little whispers. Like, I think, I think I used to think gut intuition meant like, it would be this huge, loud, like, such clear voice, like, getting hit in the face with a brick.

But. There's so many, like we've talked about so many small whispers that come leading up to it and like that repetitive thought that keeps going back to your head, like, should I check his phone? Should I check his phone? Like, is he hiding something? Is he hiding? Like that is your intuition, literally screaming at you to wake up.

But even aside from that, something I would. What advice would I give to my younger self? Um, 

it's not your fault. It is not your fault. And like I said earlier, like there's nothing you could have done to prevent it or stop it. You can't love someone  and expect that to change them. Like there's no amount of love you can give a person and hope that they change.  The way someone changes is giving firm boundaries.

And if that's not working, leaving, if that's the wake up call they need. 

I think also just advice like it will get better just focus on yourself Like be so selfish with your healing with your time with the people you allow in your life like cut off relationships  if It's not working and and going back to what you're saying earlier about how like cutting off relationships and people is hard again It's really hard.

It's really really really really hard like once you do it It gets so much easier the next time and the next time and the next time. And  I feel like that would be another big piece of advice I would give is just like, take the leap of faith. You're not going to know what things will look like a week from now, a month from now, six months.

You have no idea, but take the leap of faith. Trust that there's something larger than you guiding you. And that wants you to be the best version of yourself. And it's going to open doors so that you can become this best version of self. Like the universe isn't trying to harm you or punish you. Like it Wants you to be the best version of you and so it's going to give you all the steps to take to get there I just trust that the doors will be opened  Yeah, I really believe that our souls are here for for whatever we're here to learn and we're choosing this life And you know, we have to go through these things It's just one of those it's part of your growth journey to to do that and like you You know if someone utilizes the pain and the trauma You They can actually turn it into an amazing life, like let it lead you into a place that really causes you to find who you are as a human being and who you want to be in the world that you're in, in the world that we're living in. 

Yeah, something I would also add to that about advice that just came to mind is.  Oh, my gosh, what was it? Oh, no. Um, well, whatever you're afraid of, like, whatever sounds the most terrifying thing to you to do,  like, go do that. Like, if you, if you have an idea, like a thought that you should leave, but it sounds so scary, leave.

Or if you have the idea that, like,  stepping out of your comfort zone sounds so scary, but it might sound okay, do it. Like, whatever sounds absolutely terrifying to you, that's where you're going to find all your empowerment, all your confidence on the other side. So you're going to look back, like. Damn, I got through that and look at everything I learned along the way and look at how much better of a place it put me in.

Like I was, I was thinking about speaking up about porn for probably like  three months. Like it was just eating at me like, like every single day. I was like, should I do this? Should I do this? Should I do this? But I was so afraid because I had no idea how people were going to perceive it online. Like I was like, of course, people are going to make so much fun of me.

Like no one talks about this. I was so terrified. And then.  I just started praying about it. I was like, Hey, is this something I should start speaking up on? Like, can you just give me a sign that makes it so obvious? And then every time I do that, the next day, the next like day or two would just be these like,  like such powerful signs where I'm like, Oh damn, shoot.

I have to do this. And I didn't want to do it at all. Like I had no desire to speak up on it, but I was like, someone has to speak up on it and I feel like this is. Why I had to go through it to speak up on it. So like back to that point, if there's something you want to speak up on that you're afraid about it, just start speaking up about it.

I do like, that is where you find your empowerment and the confidence. And that's when all the doors start to open too, because you've like, you've activated the life path that you want to be on and the universe is like, okay, you want to make this world a better place. Let's do it together. Let me like put all these people in your life and let's do it.

Let's go. Like, let's start.  Yeah. And the universe wants to see if you're serious about it. Like I, there's something really important in what you just said, right?  I've heard so many women, especially women who are older, who are in relationships that make them absolutely miserable, but they don't want to leave because they're afraid of being alone.

And I wondered to myself, like, what's worse? You doing whatever you feel like,  or you being in this toxic relationship where you're not happy. I mean, look, I got married a year and a half ago and my husband is wonderful. And I'm so lucky that we have the same taste in a lot of things, but he also just lets me do whatever, when it comes to the house,  but one of the things I find when you move in with someone.

Someone is you have to ask them, you know, it's, it's a joint decision for bedsheets. It's a joint decision for a dining table and everything becomes a joint decision. You've got to include them in everything. And that for me is really hard. Cause I'm someone that just gets on with it. Right. So I make decisions and you know, being in a relationship or especially when you're living with someone means that.

You have to take them into consideration. I'm like,  let's get this moving. But, you know, when I think of older women and how much they, I do hear them say, you know, but you know, I'm never going to find someone, this is it for me. I'm like, you're literally 50.  I know people who've gotten married in their sixties, like enough, it's never too late, if you really want to be in a loving relationship, you've got to realize that no matter how many times you fail, it's never too late. 

Provided you're doing the healing work, it's literally setting you up for the best relationship of your life if you choose to  create that.  Yeah, and that's such a good point too, like, I'll even speak to girls who are as young as 16 who are afraid to leave their partner because they're afraid of being alone and they don't think they'll find anyone better.

So I love that you said that, that's even happening to like women at 50. Like, I think at every age of the woman's life, like. Like going back to what I was saying earlier, like society just spoon fed us this lie that you have to be in a relationship in order to be happy and to feel fulfilled and you can have that without a man and like The level of like happiness and fulfillment and joy that I feel now compared to when I was with my shitty ex Is a day night different like I but I was so afraid to leave him for a long time because I was like What if he is the one and what if I mess up and what if I never meet someone?

He's like, okay One there's so many people in the world like there are so many fucking people in the world You have no idea where you'll travel You have no idea like what girlfriend you meet who might introduce you to some like there's so much  So many people like that, of course is me, but someone better But also like that someone better is gonna be you creating the life that you have meant to live instead of being an unhealthy relationship that like We only have one life.

It's such a short time to spend that unhappy in a relationship. The world is so much bigger. And  yeah, but yeah, back to what you're saying, that's just, it's so interesting how that any age of our life as women, we're like, Oh, what if I don't find someone better? What if, what if this is it? What if I mess up?

What if, what if I'm alone? Like I'm alone. It's actually great. It's not bad at all. It's enjoyable. The fact that it's a running theme in so many women. It just says to me that we're teaching young girls that being alone,  that there's some sort of discomfort in being alone and that they should be afraid of being alone.

Like I'm not saying go walk in a park at night.  That's not the kind of alone that I'm talking about. No, no, no, no. I'm just like, find your passions. One of the things that I wish I did younger, if I was to give myself advice. You know, and I, funnily enough, I, I think about this, but I didn't think about it as deeply as I just did now is that I would tell myself to spend less time worrying about what boys thought of me, which is what I was conditioned to believe was important and more time trying to create the woman that I am.

I didn't start creating the woman that I am until I got to my thirties. And I think to myself, yeah, I needed to go through all this stuff. But I could have been on this journey a lot earlier  and  have developed a stronger sense of self. And then I wouldn't have gone through a lot of the things that I did in my thirties that I sometimes think to myself, seriously, you knew better.

Like I knew better, but I didn't listen because I thought it was all, it was me. I must be the problem. I'm the common denominator. It must be me. So the advice that I would give myself is  get on your journey sooner. Find who you are. Bye. Get comfortable being alone. Like those are such important things for a woman because you can't depend on people, male or female, whether it's your girlfriends, your mom, your dad, your partner, you can't depend on people  to make you happy.

You've got to find the things in your life that make you happy. What are your hobbies? What are your passions? Give yourself a North Star, like it doesn't need to be your North Star forever, but have an overarching purpose to your life and, and attach, you know, that to your happiness. Don't attach your happiness to that.

You know? Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I, I was 29 when I, 28? I think 29. I was 29 when I found out about the betrayal and I started doing like personal development work probably  a year before, but obviously nothing as heavy as after I decided to like leave after being cheated on. The end.  Now I look back at like every single man I have dated from like high school to 29.

I'm like,  I wouldn't have dated any of them had I been focusing on myself and focusing on my personal development. I wouldn't have had to gone through all that shit like that.  Like, Uh, yeah, we just make such healthier decisions when we do have, when we are working on our personal development, we are on our healing journey, when we're focusing  on becoming the best version of us internally, not externally. 

Yeah. And working on yourself doesn't mean there's something wrong. It just means you're creating a different version of yourself. I mean, you would never have become this woman. Like I would anticipate the guys would now be like, wow, she is just her confidence. You exude confidence. You have so much happiness in your face, Mandy.

Like you would never have become this version of yourself and everyone that's listening should really take this in. Like  self development. Is not, does not mean that there's something wrong with you, self development just means that you are choosing to love yourself in a way that you didn't before so that you can become the woman that you actually deserve to be, the woman who you really are inside. 

Mm hmm. It's the most loving thing you can do for yourself, and it feels like the most empowering,  yeah, thing you can do. It's, it's amazing. It's, it's hard, obviously, and it's uncomfortable because you have to face a lot of, like, lies you've been telling yourself, your whole life, or overcome self leading beliefs, but when you look back at how far you've come, you're like, damn, I can do anything.

Mm hmm. Yeah. It's such a good feeling.  Yeah. I mean, this is the perfect lead into the question that I ask all my guests, Mandy. What do you love about being a woman?  Okay. So I, I love being a woman so much and growing up, I always wanted to be a boy. Like, I was like, they have life easier. They don't like, they just had to be good at playing sports and they're set for life.

Like I was like, they just like, they never had to wear makeup. They don't have to dress up. Blah, blah, blah.  Now I'm like, ew, I would hate being a boy, but I love being a women's because I love female friendships so much. Like the level of emotional depth and intimacy and just connection and just like platonic love that you give one another.

Men don't get that. Like we talk about the male loneliness epidemic. Cause like the average man has one close guy friend. That's absurd. Like, yeah, it's. It's since I've been,  I don't know, since when, but if you Google the male loneliness epidemic, it's, it's crazy how alone men feel and  women, we don't like, yes, we can feel lonely, but like, if I'm having a bad day, I could easily call up a friend and just start crying and letting her know, like my fears and how bad I feel and like a man to a man wouldn't do that to each other really like when they have conversations are like, how are you doing?

Good, good. Okay. And like, yeah. You've seen the game. Like, it's just so,  I don't know, I just love being a woman and just like,  I used to hate anything that was feminine and like the color pink and like, I never wanted to like, look like a girly girl at all,  but now I'm like, that's our superpower as women, like, it is so amazing to be a woman and just like, I was, we've been talking about our woman's in connection, like our connection to our womb, like we are just so,  we're like magical divine creatures in my opinion.

And. Yeah, I don't know. It's just, it's fun just being able to be a girl, like you have your group, girl group chats and you just go out for brunch and you just talk and like, I don't know, it's, it's just so fun. I feel like men don't really get that. No, and I mean, it's similar, similar to you. I was like, I'm not going to wear pink because I don't want it to be obvious that I'm, that I'm trans.

Feminine. Yeah. It's so dumb. I don't want to be obvious that I'm a girl. I don't want to be a girly girl. And then I think, now I'm like, women gravitate towards pink, not because someone told us that pink is a girl's color. It's because if you think about our  portal of creativity, which is our womb, it is the most beautiful pink you could ever imagine.

That is our color because it is feminine. Instinctively, something that we gravitate towards and the fact that we just want to kind of brush it aside. Oh no, pink is, is, you know, just, it's a girly, girly, no, there's this whole gender neutral color thing. I'm like, no, I'm claiming pink. I'm claiming pink. Pink is mine.

I mean, I'm wearing pink today. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm channeling that feminine energy because it's, it's,  like you said, being a girly girl is just,  there is a sense of community. In that. Mm hmm. Yeah. In, in being a woman.  Yeah. Like I think about when I was in college and like, I'd go to, I'd be out with friends, I got a bar and we'd go to the girl's bathroom, like the girl's bathroom was always such a nice loving place of just girls being like, Hey, your lip color is cute.

Like, Hey, I love your shirt. Just like chatting or being like, what man do we need to like punch tonight? Like who's like messing someone up? Like not punch. Like, you know, just like who, what girl do we need to protect? Like it's just such a safe community. And I also do feel bad cause I know a lot of women have come across like.

unhealthy versions of women. So they have a bit of like a female wound there, but it's just,  I think as you do the healing journey, how healing journey and personal development work, you're able to read people a lot better too. So it just kind of puts you in safer situations with people. But yeah, I love being a woman.

It's so powerful and so profound. I wouldn't want it any other way. Oh, I agree. I agree, Mandy. It was such a pleasure having you on the show today. I hope every woman and man listening to this has a moment of realization today that porn is not normal. Not all guys do it. You don't have to do it. You can find connection in other ways.

Just be true to who you are. And for women, turning a blind eye on your partner's addiction is literally turning a blind eye on your own self worth. So standing up for yourself isn't crazy. It's setting boundaries.  Yeah, absolutely. I agree with all that so much. Thank you so much. This was such a good chat.

Oh, such a pleasure. Please tell the listeners where they can find you and how they can work with you, Mandy.  Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram or TikTok at WTF do I do now coaching. Um, I also have a private social media. support group for women. If you're healing from your current or past partners, porn use.

And that's in my bio on both TikTok and Instagram. Um, you can also always send me an email at mandi at WTF do I need now. com. And then I'm also launching a course, um, in a few weeks, which I'm super excited about, yeah, which is just going to. Basically be the whole healing journey I went on and then what I also do with my one on one clients and everything I've learned in my woman's empowerment and trauma informed coaching.

Um, so yeah, I'm super excited about that, which will be really fun. That's amazing. And if you are interested in connecting with Mandy, I will include in the episode description and across social links and ways you can do that. So if you haven't already, head on over to Spotify and Instagram and follow the Skin I'm In podcast to be the first to know when new episodes drop.

Mandy, thank you so much for being a guest on the Skin I'm In podcast.  Thank you so much for having me. 

How fun is Mandy? It's crazy to think that a person as bubbly and self aware went through something so horrible. Conversations like this one remind me just how much we as women put pressure on ourselves to be likable, to be agreeable, to fear being alone. And it's time we stop beating ourselves up for issues we have no control over, like the actions of others. 

For as long as we turn a blind eye on these behaviors, for as long as we say stupid things like boys will be boys and be the type of woman who will hook up with someone else's man, the more we give that behavior permission to exist and thrive.  The older I get, guys, seriously, the more I realize our power is in sticking together. 

Don't be the girl who allows a man to engage in behaviors that make you feel uncomfortable. Speak up. Say something. Stand your ground. Don't be the woman who encourages someone else's man  to cheat. Whether they advance towards you or you advance towards them, I don't care how hot they are or what they've got, just don't do it. 

And just don't be the girl who is out there trying to capitalize on the weakness of others for your personal financial gain.  This is not me being judgmental on what people want to do to make money or get ahead in life.  It's me asking you to develop self awareness. Self love and self worth. Because let me tell you something, if you had any of those things, you wouldn't engage in this type of behavior, nor would you allow it.

I'm asking you to love on yourself and set boundaries.  We need to put an end to being treated with disrespect, and the only way to do that is by showing ourselves respect first. You cannot demand a person to treat you in any kind of way, in any kind of setting, how to treat you, unless you show them with your own actions by what you tolerate and how well you treat yourself, and the way in which you honour your values and show that you are not willing to sacrifice who you are to be seen, liked or admired by people who really don't respect you. 

You will learn so quickly who is for you and who isn't when you start to set up boundaries because, let me tell you, people will treat you the way they want for as long as they can get away with it, and when they no longer can, they will drop away from your life like a bug that just died. I, like, take my word for it, guys.

I've been through this so many times. As soon as I've put a boundary up  Bye bye.  They disappear. It's because I no longer allow them to treat me the way that they've been getting away with. And really, it is that simple. And nothing to cry over.  Do the self development work. And I promise you, your BS filter will get so much better.

Damn good at weeding out creeps that doors for real connection and joy will start to swing open in your life and the smarter more switched on you become. That means you will attract better opportunities for building real wealth and loving relationships without having to take your clothes  If only you could see yourself the way those who love you See you. 

I wonder what that would change  with gratitude and grace. Have a wonderful day.