WTF Do I Do Now?

32. Porn's Impacts on Relationships with Her Voice Matters Podcast

• Mandy | Betrayal & Empowerment Life Coach • Episode 32

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 Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of What the Fuck Do I Do Now, a safe space where we talk about all things healing and empowerment after their cheating, porn use, and betrayal drama, to remind you it's not your fault and healing is absolutely possible. I'm your host Mandy, a certified women's empowerment life coach, trauma informed relationship coach, meditation teacher, and trauma informed breathwork teacher. 



All right, everyone. Welcome back to another episode. So today's episode is going to be a little bit different at AEs a interview. Where I was being interviewed  by Dourdan from her voice. And I'm going to be fully honest. I am not feeling creative this week. There's so much craziness going on in the world that I'm also on my period. 

So I. I always tried to do as little work as possible when I'm on my period, so I can just rest. And my creativity is just no where I want it to be right now. So and we probably seen an interview that I did with Jordan. She speaks up on abuse relationships. , issues. Absolutely incredible. 

It was so great getting to know her and she also experienced betrayal trauma in her previous relationship. So we talk about that in here as well. 

If you want to follow Jordan, I'll include her Instagram and podcast.  aNd just all the information about her in the show notes so that you can go ahead, follow her, subscribe, whatever, whatever you want to do. Yeah, she's an amazing resource.  

I am going to cut it off there and what is going to dive into the episode and I'll come back on in the next few days, if not next week with,  a more creative episode where I'm talking and giving help and resources and everything. But I think this episode will still be helpful for a lot of people are sending you love by. 

  Welcome back to the show, ladies. Today we have a very special guest with us to come and talk with us about pornography and its impact on relationships. She is a certified trauma informed and women's empowerment life coach, helping women heal from their current or past partners. Horn use infidelity and or betrayal trauma.

She has over 400 plus training hours and is certified as a women's empowerment, life coach, advanced trauma relationships, coach, and meditation and mindfulness  teacher. She is also the host of what the F do I do now podcast on Spotify and Apple. Without any further ado, welcome to the show. Mandy. Thank you so much, Jordan.

I'm so excited to be here. Absolutely. Thank you for being here. I'm really, really excited because I've never had. Someone like yourself come on the podcast and talk with us about this specific topic, but most importantly about betrayal trauma. This is a topic that I'm learning that I have a lot of issues with, like in therapy, and I am really curious to learn more about it.

So if you wouldn't mind, can you briefly share more about who you are and your story with how you ended up doing everything that you're doing now? Yeah, absolutely. So very long story short. I was living with my partner. Um, we really talked about getting married, all that stuff, raise a dog together. I thought he was my soulmate.

And then, um, one night I discovered he was getting a hotel room with a porn star and it led to open so many other doors. I found out he's cheating on me in our entire relationship. He was hiding a porn and sex addiction. And I just felt so blindsided. Like this guy was my absolute best friend. I would have never thought in a million years that he was cheating on me in real life or would be doing any of that behind my back.

Um, and that's when I just dived down. That's when I discovered what partner betrayal trauma is. And I just started researching this.  Porn addiction because I could not wrap my mind around it for I just could not understand it and I was trying so hard And so I just kept researching and researching and I just started speaking up about it And the more I started speaking up was like wow this is actually happening to a lot of women and No one is speaking up about it because there's so much shame and embarrassment that comes with the topic and  yeah, you just take it as such like a you just feel like it's Something that's wrong with you, not your partner.

And it just is such a, it becomes such an internal battle. So that's why I speak up on about now, cause I want girls to know they're not alone and just to raise awareness about the harms of porn, because it unfortunately has become so normalized in our society. And there are so many studies showing how addictive it is and how it rewires people's brains and impacts relationships.

And so that's something I'm really trying to speak up about because I don't want more women and men and whoever to become blindsided by this.  I love that. That's so powerful. I definitely think that more and more people should be speaking up about this because it's really, really important and I think a, a question that a lot of women have is like, is this cheating?

And I, to me, it felt like that, even though it wasn't like a physical person, but obviously everything that was happening, it seriously felt the same, maybe even worse. And my therapist had mentioned something about like, she, she asked me a question. She was like, does it feel like that to you? Because she was like cheating, maybe.

Mean different things to every single person. So did you feel the same way like that you were being cheated on as well? Yeah, absolutely porn be started to become an issue in our relationship where it was just impacting our intimacy We weren't having um sex often. I was like what's going on? And then I started to find out he was watching porn and It destroyed my self esteem in the relationship.

Like I, when we would go out in public, I would wear like super baggy clothes to cover my body because I didn't want him comparing my body to other girls bodies. But then when we're at home, I would try to like dress a little bit more like skimpy to be like, Hey, like, do you want to initiate intimacy with me?

And it's. It just ruined like every aspect of me. I compared myself so much. I,  uh, growing up, I had issues with eating disorders and I feel like being in the relationship and experiencing that kind of started to relapse it a bit too. And I was like working out every single day, eating so healthy, like it very much.

So it does feel like cheating because at the end of the day, your partner is lusting after other woman's naked bodies. Like I, to me, I don't understand how that. isn't cheating, especially when you find out they're like talking to these women or subscribing to OnlyFans or paying for custom content on OnlyFans.

Like that, that is cheating to me. Just because there's a screen doesn't take away the emotional impact on you as a woman. Exactly. Yeah. I totally agree with that. I was in like a similar situation to where I got with this guy, we got married and I had no idea. That was my biggest fear of getting in a relationship with a man that I found out that he had like a porn addiction.

And we got married, everything seemed phenomenal, and like, less than four months after we, we were married, I just felt like this heaviness in the house, and I'm like, something, I just feel that something is going on, and I was actually really scared to even ask, and then I ended up just like, asking one day.

And man, like I literally hit the floor. I'm not even kidding. Like that's how the, the pain, it was just crazy. I don't even know how to like, even really like describe that, but it was just so difficult. Cause you're like, do I stay? Do I leave? Is he really going to quit watching this? How will I ever know?

Like, yeah, there's apps that you can get. There's one called, I think covenant as isn't there like another one as well. There's so many of them to be honest, um, but first of all, I am so sorry that happened to you. That is so devastating. So heartbreaking. And that's, that's the exact reason why I speak up on this because women are just blindsided.

You think you're getting into a relationship with someone who is honest and loyal and loving and then you find out they're hiding like an entire secret life and you're just like, what the heck? And yeah, I. Going back to what you said too, like, do I stay? Do I leave? That's the number one question I get from girls when they reach out to me.

They're like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to trust him. Obviously this person is like, at the time, the love of your life, because you're creating, I mean, you got married to this person and then to find out they're hiding the secret, you just, there's nothing to prepare you in life to discover this. 

Like, there's nothing to give you the tools to understand what to do in the moment. Exactly. I'm like, I wish somebody would have warned me about this in life. Right? Yeah. Like that, that's why I'm speaking up. Like I want girls to know like, uh, porn addictions are so real and they're so catastrophic and just progress and get worse if the person doesn't.

Get serious about seeking professional help. Exactly. I did a research. I was doing a bunch of study on this stuff whenever I started like going through this and I literally seen an x ray. Have you seen the x ray of like someone that's addicted to porn compared to someone that's on drugs? Yeah, it's like cocaine and alcohol or something or heroin, but it's like, is it like the three brains together?

I think so. Is that it, or? Yeah. I think that's what it was, and it was basically just like a study on how porn has  a worse impact on your brain than drugs. Like, I'm like,  that's crazy. Yeah. It's so crazy, and that's what makes it so dangerous, because society, like I said, we just normalize it. Like, you've, people talk about it in movies, they joke about it with their friends, they send links to their friends, like, it's become such a part of culture, where I'm just like,  This would be equivalent to everyone just like doing heroin and we're all cool with it.

Like, no, no, there's serious consequences. Exactly. Yeah. And I feel like.  Especially like the part with like intimacy and stuff like that. I feel like that really screws it up. And I feel like there can't even be like any real true intimacy either. If there is that addiction, like personally, like that's how I feel because I feel like I'm constantly thinking in my head.

Oh, they're probably thinking about, like, the porn star and, like, here I am. Obviously,  I think the majority of that stuff is fake. Some of the stories I've heard, I'm like, that's not even real. The stuff that I hear, like, this, you know what I mean? I'm just like, it creates these, what do you call, unrealistic expectations.

Where I'm like, I can't even, like, physically even freaking do that, but they believe it because they've seen a video of it. Completely. Porn is so fake. It's so exaggerated and unrealistic. There's, like, camera lighting. They're, like, women are so, like, like, they have everything just, like, fake. I mean, not all women, but, like, Boob jobs, plastic surgery, like spray tans, like everything is so unrealistic.

And the thing that bothers me the most about  porn in general is like, it's just showing you pleasure from the male's perspective. Like it's directed by men. It's written by men. It's produced by men. Like it is a male dominated industry. And going back to what you're saying about intimacy and relationship, that's one of the biggest complaints I hear of women and what I experienced myself was like.

Like physical intimate intimacy in the relationship. It just sucked. Like either you weren't having it or you were having it and it was like very aggressive. It wasn't loving. It wasn't kind or like you're having it and they always have their eyes closed or I think, you know, foreign scenes or they're just like not emotionally present.

And that's the saddest thing that. I see like porn just destroys real love and real intimacy and it doesn't make it a safe space for people to express what they like, like share their vulnerabilities. It's just like, I don't, I don't know. It just seems so demonic to me. Right. Yeah, I totally agree. And clearly like in that, whenever all that stuff was going on, I physically felt like you could just feel it in the house.

Yes. Yeah, I just felt like this heaviness this darkness. I felt like there was a dark cloud over the house Oh my gosh, I just got chills up and down my body when you said that. Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off Keep going with what you're saying Yeah, I just got head to toe chills when you said that because I remember the first time I went back To my apartment that I shared with him um to go like pack up my stuff the next day and I remember walking around there I was like I couldn't breathe.

I was like it feels so Dark and heavy and demonic in here. Like, it just like, I cannot explain the energy. Like, I'm having such a hard time breathing. And then for the following week after every time I went back to pack up my stuff, he wasn't there, but my mom was there with me. And the first thing she said when she walked into the apartment, she's like, it just feels so dark.

And like the energy is so, this is not a safe place to be like, I know it just feels different now. Like knowing what you know, you just can't unsee it. Exactly. You really can't, you cannot unsee it. And I feel like even if you were to try and like work things out with that person, it's so difficult to even work on rebuilding that trust.

And I was listening to a book, her name is Lisa. I forget what her last name is. And it was like, I wanna trust you, but I don't, or something like that. It's so good. And she was, I, do you know what I'm talking about? I, no, she was in not sure. Similar, is it called Forgiving? What? You can't forget. Yes, it's the same girl.

Okay. And she just came out with a new book called. I want to trust you, but I don't, I think is what it's called. So she was talking about how you can't trust someone if they keep breaking the trust. Like you cannot repair trust if it keeps getting broken over and over again. And so many women are just sitting here.

I feel like wondering, did they stop watching it? And I'm just like, you'll, you'll really never know because these types of people are so good at hiding this stuff. They're experts. I mean, they're addicted to something and they're so, just like any other person that's addicted to something. They're experts at hiding this stuff.

I mean, who knows? Like there was this one girl, she literally didn't know that her husband was in a completely different relationship and addicted to porn for 12 years. I'm like,  oh my gosh, I cannot imagine what that girl is going through. Yeah, and what you said is such an important point, too, is to remember that, like, this is something my therapist said, too, when I,  we discovered the porn addiction.

Um, she's like, at the end of the day, the addiction will always come first. It doesn't matter if you're their mother, their parent, their wife, their whatever, like, their addiction will always become first because their addiction is controlling them. And that means they. Like, they have gone their entire life lying and hiding and manipulating and gaslighting people.

And just because you caught them once, that doesn't mean they're gonna automatically, like, get their shit together and start being honest. Like, they become addicted to lying. Like, they, like, they want to hide this so much. And it's not because they don't want to hurt you. It's more so, like, this is, like, their ego, and they want to protect their self image, which.

Yeah, that's the hardest part. Like they,  it just brings up so many signs of emotional and psychological abuse. Because when you think about like how much effort goes into lying and manipulating, gaslighting someone that you live with, that you're married with, that you're dating, that you have an entire secret life like that. 

Oh my gosh, it's  It's, yeah, it's, it becomes an art. Like, it's a science. They know exactly what they're doing and they're going to keep doing it. Exactly. And I, I feel like one of the worst things ever is reaching a point in your relationship to where you're just like, Oh my gosh, I feel like my whole life with this person, not my whole life, but the whole relationship has seriously been like a lot because they, Yep.

Solves out to be this person that they're not.  And I think it's really important as well to realize that it's not us even though we feel like it's us that we're ugly and that's why they they turn to that stuff that it has nothing to do. With us and our image and our self worth and everything to do with them and their character.

Don't you, do you, do you agree with that? Oh, 100%. Like there, there's nothing you could have done to prevent it or stop it because it was never your fault. Like this man could have been married to Beyonce or like think of the most attractive woman ever. He would have done the same thing to her because it's, it has nothing to do with your looks, your appearance, your body, anything to do with you.

It's them being hooked to the novelty of being with different women. Like that's what it comes down to. So I hear so many women who like get plastic surgery or develop eating disorders or will try to change their image to look more like the girls that their partner was watching. And it's never going to work because even if you were to look at his like search history. 

Weeks, months, years, like it's always going to be changing, like there, no one woman can satisfy a lustful man, but it's not because you aren't attractive, or sexy, or good enough, like it literally has nothing to do with you, but I get it, that, I think that is the hardest limiting belief to overcome when you're on this healing journey, it's like, okay, it wasn't my looks, it wasn't my body, it wasn't because of me, it was because of what he's dealing with.

Right, exactly. So whenever you were in therapy for, for all this stuff, what did your therapist recommend for you to help you whenever you were dealing with this stuff and like leaving and all of that, like what did she actually recommend and what do you recommend for the ladies listening that have been in our shoes?

Yeah. So I loved my therapist. I don't work with her anymore. Um, but I started working with her before I even discovered the porn addiction and I didn't know it at the time, but she actually specialized in porn addiction. I just found a random therapist from BetterHelp and she was really helpful to help me understand and rationalize like what the addiction is, how it impacts the brain, how it impacts relationships, how it progresses as a person, like why, basically like why I should get the fuck out now while I'm still young.

And.  The, the one thing that wasn't great since she specialized in porn addiction, but she didn't specialize in betrayal trauma. And so she was helpful at helping me understand like his brain and why he's doing things, but it wasn't really helpful for me to understand like how I'm impacted and what to do.

And that's what kind of embarked on a large healing journey for me. So like, I kind of had to figure out the tools on my own cause I feel like it just wasn't her expertise.  But thankfully, right before I discovered this, I started doing breathwork teacher training and meditation teacher training, and it was all focused on healing trauma.

So I used a lot of those principles to my healing journey, which I found to be so helpful. And to any woman, man, whoever is listening to this. My biggest recommendation is to focus on nervous system regulation, and it's basically just like calming your body, reminding your body it's safe, helping your body go from the fight or flight mode to the rest and digest mode, just like constantly throughout the day.

And I feel like once you're able to get a handle on that,  For me and what I see in clients, like I feel like healing just kind of starts like blast off because if our nervous system isn't regulated and you're reading the books, you're listening to podcasts, you're going to talk therapy, which which are all incredible things to do that.

You absolutely should do. Just education is empowerment, but you're actually not really going to be taking in like what the people are saying. You're not going to be able to apply it because you're Body is constantly going in and out of fight or flight mode, and when you're in fight or flight mode, your body isn't retaining new information.

All your body is focused on is just like, how am I going to survive? How am I going to be okay? And like, it goes into like this adrenaline rush moment for us. Um, so my biggest recommendation for anyone is. Start doing like small meditations every day. Start doing breath work. There's apps called like open or calm or headspace or you can even find free ones on YouTube.

Um, and also just nervous system regulation. And I have a free guide for that on. Instagram and TikTok too. Um, I think those are the number one things to do. And then also like find support groups just to know that you aren't alone in this. Just, I think it can be so powerful to be like, Oh, like other women are experiencing this.

It's not because my body and my looks, it's not because I'm doing something wrong. It's actually all these men are acting the same because they're all dealing with the same addiction and that's not my fault as a person. So I think support groups are extremely helpful. And I also have one of those as well.

Sweet. Yeah. We'll be sure to drop the link below this podcast episode as well. To your Instagram and that way people can join your support group as well. That way they know that they're obviously not alone in this because so many of us have going through the same thing. And I think it's really important that you and me both are speaking up about these things to make sure that other women know that more than one person has gone through this, you know?

I think it's important as well to be a part of a group to where those people have been in your shoes. Because I feel like the worst thing that you can do is to talk to someone about the things that we have gone through if they don't get us, if they have never been. Oh god. Yeah. Especially if they're like religious, because they're gonna say, Yep.

Stay, no matter what. Oh my god. Yeah. Did you know that as well?  I, so when I discovered porn and OnlyFans being in my relationship, I remember texting friends and be like, kind of panicking, like, oh my, I dunno what to do. I just found out he's doing this. And they're like, oh, you know, like, I just don't think it's a big ideal deal, you know, like it's, it's whatever.

And so because of that. I've, it made me feel even more worse about myself and to feel like, wow, I must be insecure. I must be high maintenance. Something must be wrong with me. If no other girls care about it, then like, I must be wrong for caring about it. And that was a big reason why I was actually really hesitant to speak up about it.

Cause one, just like trolls on the internet, they're so, so mean, they will just destroy you, which I get why not a lot of girls want to speak up because people are so mean on the internet. Um.  But yeah, that's why I think it's important. Yeah, yeah. You get it. Um, but yeah, that's why I think it's important for at least some people to be speaking up.

'cause Yeah, it's.  It can be really damaging when you go to someone and they dismiss your pain, they invalidate it because you're, you're already feeling insecure about it. And so to have someone invalidate your pain even more, that can be even more re traumatizing because you're like, wow, I am the issue, which it's not true at all.

Like you are, have every right to feel the way you do and there's nothing wrong with feeling hurt that he is looking at other woman's naked body like that.  It's bare minimum respect in my opinion. Exactly. And if you feel that way, your feelings are 110 percent valid. And I feel like  seeking validation in other people, this is one thing I learned like the hard way, cause I did like the same thing and technically like my friends were agreed with me, but I have, I totally understand like whenever you're talking about like trolls on the internet and stuff like that, and people were like, Oh, like, I think it's completely fine if you watch it together and stuff like that. 

People think that that's fine. Like we're all entitled to our own opinions, but. Every single person, obviously, that makes them feel a different way. So, like, if I encounter people like that, I just tell them, like, you're on the wrong side of the algorithm. I'm not talking to you. Like, this is not meant for you whatsoever.

Cause, like, we will find our people. And what I, like, I'm making content and I just literally act like I'm talking to myself. Like, people ask me, like, what my content strategy is. And I really just, like, picture myself, like, looking into, like, just talking to myself about things I have going through. Bye, completely.

Yeah. So, how did you know it was time to leave? Like, did you leave as soon as you found that stuff? Yeah. So I, I found porn in the relationship maybe like three or four times. I don't remember the exact amount. And I stayed, I stayed, I stayed. Like I was, cause again, he's like, Oh, I'm sorry. Like, I promise every time there was an excuse and he's like, okay, I'll be better this time.

And then we would go months and nothing would happen. Then I find it again. And it was just like, you want to believe them because you want to spend your life with this person. And I think that's a really hard lesson that you learn throughout this too. It's like, believe someone's actions, not their words.

Like, People's actions will show you who they are. It's so easy to be like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'll never do it again I'll change like if you're gonna if they're keep doing it like that that just becomes a pattern Um, but anyway, so I stayed because of that and again like all my friends like oh, it's fine.

Whatever So like yeah, sure. I just like gaslit myself and then When I found him getting a hotel room with a porn star, that's when, of course, everything changed. I was like, screw this. I am out. I left that night and I never saw him again. Wow. I'm proud of that. I really am because I know that that is so freaking difficult, especially whenever you're with this person that you think that you're going to be with for the rest of your life.

And then this happened, like, oh my gosh, like that, yeah, yeah, and something to add to that too, just to anyone listening, like, when I say I left that night and I never saw him again, it's because that night when it happened, I messaged my friend, I let them know what happened, cause like, I knew I needed someone to hold me accountable, I knew how good he was at lying and gaslighting and manipulating, like, looking back at the relationship, and that's, My friends are what helped me not go back to him because I know it's so easy to go back like I just needed people to know exactly what happened.

I sent them a screen recorded the conversation that he was having with this porn star. And I say that on my phone. I just and I shared it with my friends.  This is what happened. And then anytime I was like, Oh, do you think I should go back? They're like, are you kidding? Do we need to remind you of what he did and everything he said and everything he lied about?

And I was like, yes, please do remind me. So just having accountability throughout that process is so helpful. Yeah. So, so important. What's your thoughts on your brain being like programmed to that trauma? Because obviously we're disrespected and treated completely wrong, but do you  Our brain is just so used to the chaos.

That's why do you think that we don't want to leave as soon as we should? I guess. Yeah. So  my hypothesis on it is that. When you're in this relationship, it's emotionally abusive, it's psychologically abusive, but you, you don't realize that and your brain goes into survival mode. And often as women, we go into people pleasing mode where we want to avoid con conflict.

We just want to keep the peace. We want everything to be fine. We want, we want the world that we made up in our mind that this is a safe, loving, honest person. We want to believe that. And so we will believe that. And. So our brain goes into survival mode to protect us, but often when we leave the relationship, our brain, like our brain and body going back to nervous system regulation, finally like starts to feel a little bit more safe again.

And then you start to look back at the relationship and you can connect all the dots and be like, Oh, that time he said that it's actually because he was doing X, Y, Z. Like, Oh, the time he, I thought he was cheating and he talked him right out of it. Oh, he was actually doing that. So like,  In those moments, our brains don't want to believe what's happening, and that's when, like, woman's intuition comes into too, like, our woman intuition will start to, like, speak, like, little light whispers, like, Hey, go through his phone, go through his phone, like, oh, that's not right, that's not right, or, like, he must be lying, ask for more details, but oftentimes it'll be, like, you know what, no, he's, like, again, going back to his words, like, oh, he, he said he promised that everything is fine, he promised that he'd change, like, I can believe him.

And so it's really just our brain going into the survival mode being like, I need to protect and just make sure I'm okay. I'm going to keep the peace. I'm not going to  bring up fights. I'm just going to avoid conflict. But then once you get out, your brain's like, Oh my gosh, I can see the situation for what it actually was. 

Wow. That was a lot of abuse.  I took until they relate to that. Have you read the book called? It's not you by dr. Romani. I think is her name No, what is it about? Oh my gosh, it's you have to read it. It's literally about I just wrote it down Like how it's not your fault. It's basically on like narcissism  So good.

I got the audio book, like sped it, sped up the speed and just knocked out that book so fast. But she was talking about how, whenever you're going through stuff like this to journal the heck out of your relationship, that way you're not in denial whenever you leave, you can look back on that stuff and not feel guilty for actually leaving. 

One, yes, I'm going to listen to that. Two, journaling is literally what saved me in my entire relationship. It's what helped me get out and it's what helped me not go back to him. Like every time after every fight, argument, anytime something just like didn't seem right, I would journal about it and still to this day I have like five journals and I go back and read after our fights.

And now that I've been out, I'm like, Oh my gosh, he was so manipulative and so abusive. And I had no idea. And I was gaslighting myself a lot being like, everything's fine. Like you're just overreacting, like whatever, but journaling. Yeah. That would be the number one recommendation I have to anyone is journal, journal, journal, document everything, like write about your fights, write about how you feel, write about what they said.

And when, or if you decide to leave, you're going to look. back on those journal entries and be like, those are what's going to save you and help you have your peace of mind to be like, no, everything that happened was true. I can trust myself. And I, it wasn't me. It was him. Did you ever have a note, notepad in your phone of like everything that was going on? 

Yeah,  I still have the notepad on my phone of every, every time we had an argument, I would write about like, who's like fault it was, how it was prompted and how it was handled. And obviously it's all like, Oh, like he got mad about so and so. And I would apologize, even though I never actually did what he's like, accused me of, but I just wanted to keep the peace.

And yeah, I still have that note. And sometimes I look back on it and I'm like, yeah, Oh my gosh. And also on that note, I feel like if you're at the point in a relationship and you're documenting things, I think that in and of itself is just such a wake up call that like, yes, you, you are in an unhealthy relationship.

Like, I get it. Do what you need to do for yourself and like protect your peace and keep documenting because it will help you down the road for sure. Right. I showed my notepad to my friend one time and she's like, Jordan, that's not good. I'm like, really? You don't have a notepad in your phone? And she's like, you could die. 

Perfect. He used to be Amish and he's like,  perfect. Like they didn't kiss until I say perfect. He's pretty close to perfect  wedding day. And she was talking about how  she was in some like women's group or something like that. And she was like, I was so shocked. I was the only one to like, where my husband, he, he doesn't have a porn addiction.

All the other girls did. They have something really special and I'm just yeah,  she don't have notes in her phone She's like and I asked her I was like so whenever you guys get in fights like what's it typically over cuz I was like trying to think of like my Situation stuff that like we would fight over and she was like, honestly, I don't know.

I really don't know George Like we really don't fight if we do it's just over stupid stuff. Like I get mad because he's home like Late or something like that from work. Like he, he worked overtime or something.  What, what is that like?  Imagine that peace of mind. I need to find an Amish man. I'm going to go join an Amish commune.

Goodbye everyone. And we're going to have no technology. If I ever go off the face of the earth, that's where I am. Yeah, exactly. It's really funny because like, this is funny. I don't really talk about that much. I actually work for this cookie company. I, I do like, they used to be Amish and they make the phenomenal cookie mix.

So like, I do like their social media management and geography and stuff like that. And I love that. Yeah. I just made me like, think of that, but seriously, like they seem like, obviously probably not all of them, just like all of us, but some of them just seem like the most genuine kindest souls ever. Yeah.

That's funny. Maybe we'll find you a An Amish man out in Australia. Whatever. I'm open.  Like, where did she go? She's on social media anymore. Trust goes to the world.  I can never, I love this way too much.  I can't imagine having like that peace of mind, like being with someone that like you can fully trust.

Like, I really don't know what that.  No, yeah, I, I mean, I know it exists. It's out there for sure, but I just, that's also why I'm thankful that we I mean, obviously I'm not thankful that either of us were in that situation where we found a porn addict, but I'm so thankful I found out when I was younger, and now I get to go on the healing journey, I get to feel empowered, I get to learn boundaries and use my voice and  how to process emotions and like notice red flags and dating, because now I think dating is such a different world where I'm just like, I have no, I will not tolerate any you. 

Any red flags. Like, nah, I'm good. Exactly. Yeah. I feel like it took me almost 30 years though to actually be able to see a red flag. I feel like before you could have like a big one in front of me and I just over, overlooked it because I seen the potential in the person. Oh my gosh. We fall in love with the potential of the man or like the idea of the man or like who we would be if we were that man and like what we would do if we were him.

But yeah, I think that's one of the hardest lessons.  Who he is right now that That's who he is. It's not the potential of who he is because he's not, he's not going to change. And I feel like that is worse, honestly, than physically losing someone is like grieving someone that's like still alive. And you're trying to grieve this person that like didn't even exist in the first place, man.

It's just like, yeah, I, all of a sudden it just like hits you. Yeah, I joined the support group, like, a few months after my betrayal, and I will never forget this. It, like, hit me like a pound of bricks in the face. This lady, she was talking about how she lost her daughter two years prior, or a few years prior, and then she found out about her husband's secret porn addiction.

And she said it was more difficult to grieve the husband. They got divorced. It was more difficult to grieve that because he's still alive. And it, one, it gives you like complex PTSD, like the psychological and emotional impacts it has on you, which is like lingering and can last for so long. Whereas the death of a loved one, you're like, okay, I know they're in a better place.

Yes, this is so painful and there's a void of them, but I can still love who they were. Whereas when you find out this person has an addiction, like, I don't even know. Who you are, like that version of you never existed. It's just, it's such a mental  mind. Fuck it. It is so difficult for your brain to process everything that happened.

So in conclusion, I know that you're coming out with a free webinar very soon and a page, can you tell us a little bit more about that? That way the ladies that are listening, if they want to be a part of that, they can click the link below the podcast and I'll be a part of that. Yeah, absolutely. So the webinar is launching on January 1st.

It's called why you're not healing from his betrayal and what actually works. And so that dives into kind of what I was talking about here a dive into a lot of like what I was struggling that was missing from the betrayal.  We're just like healing from betrayal, and so it dives into a lot of how we actually store trauma in our body, not just our mind, and how to work on processing the trauma that are in our body through nervous system regulation, all that.

And then the course is, it's basically everything that I learned on my healing journey. It's what I do with my clients. It's everything I learned in my women's empowerment training, training and trauma informed relationships training. I just.  It's basically like, I remember when I was going through my trauma, I was like, I just wish I knew someone who's gone through this before me who can lay out the steps, like different tools and practices to use to heal. 

And so someone can just help guide me. So that's basically what this course is. It's just like me, like holding my hand out to girls and like, Hey, here's what can work. Try this. And it's really focused on like nervous system regulation. Processing emotions, grieving the relationship you thought you had while grieving the future you thought you had, like coming to terms with that, seeing the relationship for what it is, understanding trauma bonds.

And I designed it so whether you left the relationship, you can do it. There's also sections that focus on leaving the relationship, dating again, all of that. Then I also created, if you're in the relationship still like how to process reconciliation, decide if the relationship is right for you. So there's two different paths you can take throughout the course, but yeah, I'm super excited about it.

It's. I know it's going to help so many women and it's everything I wish I had. So I've been taking the course like multiple times. I'm like, yeah, this is great. This is good. Oh yeah. That's, that's awesome. I've actually never heard of anyone creating something like that. So I don't think they will have much competition there. 

I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. That. So many women need exactly like what you're going to be coming out with. So if you ladies are listening, make sure that you click the link below. That way you can be a part, follow her on Instagram first, and we'll drop the link there as well. That way you can be notified for the free webinar and to be a part of the course.

But do you have any advice or any last words that you would like to say to the ladies that are listening? Last words,  I, I just really want to hone in on the fact like, this is not your fault, like, I fully understand how difficult it is to believe that it's not your fault, like, please don't try to change your appearance or get like plastic surgery or change your image or like, don't betray yourself.

I think that's one of the hardest things to come to terms with is  Betraying by someone else. Yes, that sucks. Like, realizing that you're betraying yourself, that's going to hurt worse in the long run. Like, focus on finding support groups, nervous system regulation. Like, just know that you are so amazing and you are so much more important than, like, what your physical  appearance looks like, what your body looks like.

There's so much more that is important to you. And just focus on what makes you unique as an individual and just start to love yourself. Like, become the love of your life and everything in your life will start to change positively.  So powerful. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

I've had a blast talking to you and we'll see you ladies on the next upcoming show. Once again, click the link below, follow Mandy, and we'll see you guys soon.