Episode 63 - Amanda Stewart - Dark Side of Coercive Control

A relationship can become a cage without you noticing the bars being built. Amanda joins me from Brisbane to share how early trauma and a loss of safety at 15 shaped the choices she made at 16, and how a controlling partner can disguise domination as “protection” until your confidence, friendships and freedom quietly disappear. Her story is raw, honest and painfully familiar to anyone who’s lived through coercive control and domestic violence. 

We unpack what control looks like in day-to-day life with money, transport, parenting, isolation, blame and the public mask that convinces everyone you’re fine. Amanda explains the turning point that comes through nursing and university, when learning about domestic violence gives her language for what she’s been surviving. From there, we walk through the reality of leaving with six kids in the mix, the moment she needs police support to collect her things and the fear that comes with realising how dangerous separation can be. 

The conversation goes deeper into post-separation abuse, family court trauma and parental alienation, including the ways systems and paperwork can be used as weapons. We also spend time on recovery and trauma healing including meditation as “medication”, therapy, journalling, self-trust and choosing to move forward minute by minute when you can’t see the other side yet. Amanda shares how she rebuilds her identity, restores relationships with most of her now-adult children and names her memoir "She Lives" as a declaration of survival. 

If this story resonates, please subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find these real conversations. What part of Amanda’s journey stayed with you most?

Connect with Amanda on Instagram here

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Transcript

Cold Open And Safety Note

Amanda 0:00

And I always remember thinking a never-ending story when I know it's the most tragic scene when the horse gets stuck in the and one of my sons is actually named after a trail because that's how much I love that movie. And the horse stuck in the swamp of sadness. I just kept thinking to myself, I'm not going to get swap stuck in the swamp of sadness because that's what drowned the horse. Like I'm going to get stuck here and it's going to drown me. I need to keep me moving forward. And that might have meant sometimes, minute by minute. It was times when I had to go, I just need to do what's in front of me right now, and that's all I can cope with.

Trudie Marie 0:37

Welcome to the Everyday Warriors Podcast. I'm your host, Trudy Marie. Here, ordinary people share extraordinary stories of resilience, courage, and hope. Every conversation is a reminder that no matter what life throws at us, we all have the capacity to continue to rise. If you enjoy today's episode, I'd love you to leave a five-star review. You can support the show through the links in the show notes, which includes Buy Me a Coffee or by subscribing to Everyday Warrior Moments. Or you can check out my book, Everyday Warrior from Frontline to Freedom. This is my memoir of hiking the 1,000km Bibbleman track. But for now, let's meet today's Everyday Warrior. Please note that the following podcast may contain discussions or topics that could be triggering or distressing for some listeners. I aim to provide informative and supportive content, but understand that certain things may evoke strong emotions or memories. If you find yourself feeling overwhelmed or in need of support while listening, I encourage you to pause the podcast and take a break. Remember that it is okay to prioritise your well-being and seek assistance from trained professionals. There is no shame in this. In fact, it is the first brief step to healing. If you require immediate support, please consider reaching out to Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or a crisis intervention service in your area. Thank you for listening. And please take care of yourself as you engage with the content of this podcast.

Teen Trauma And Silent Shame

Trudie Marie 2:29

Welcome to another episode of the Everyday Warriors Podcast. And today I have a guest with me, another Australian for a change, all the way from Brisbane. Please welcome Amanda. Hi Trudy. So good to have you on the show, lovely. And I want to take you back because your story starts all the way back when you were like around 15 years old.

Amanda 2:53

Yeah, so I'm 49 now, but back when I was 15, I went through a a bit of a troubling time. My dad had left my parents' marriage dissolved, and my dad had left quite dramatically. And so I was a bit on the, you know, had some rough, had a rough year. And during that year I I took up drinking and things like that, as 15-year-olds do when they have a little bit of extra spare time. And there was an event that sort of I guess changed my life of sexual assault that happened when I was actually unconscious from a group of boys that came to my house and took me to a party, and a boy sexually assaulted me while I was unconscious when I was 15.

Trudie Marie 3:42

Well, so if you life isn't traumatic enough having to deal with your parents divorcing in that time period, you're then thrown into an arena where you can't begin to trust men either because of an assault at the worst possible time. Assaults are bad anytime, but when you're unconscious, that's just so not on in my books.

Amanda 4:06

Yeah, no, it was pretty bad. It was, yeah, it was horrible. And then being raised Catholic, I kept it all to myself and I didn't want to add any more stress or upset my mum or anybody, so I didn't tell anybody for many years. I didn't tell my mum until I was in my 30s. And yeah, I just brushed over it and tried to forget about it, I guess.

Trudie Marie 4:28

Wow, that's a and that's a lot of trauma to go through as a teenager. I mean, yeah, our teenage years are traumatic enough, let alone adding some external trauma to go through as well. But having to take that all in and not tell anybody, that must have been hard for you back then.

Amanda 4:45

It yes, it was hard. One thing that I did take out of it was because I always try to take positives and make things, you know, lemonade out of lemons, I guess. I did stop drinking. So I gave up drinking at the ripe old age of nearly 16 and didn't really do any drugs or anything like that either. So that was something positive, I think, that sort of came out of that, if anything can come out of, because I didn't want to ever not be in control or know what was happening to me or being under the influence.

Trudie Marie 5:17

Totally get that. And it changes your life

Coercive Control Behind Closed Doors

Trudie Marie 5:20

course. But then you obviously went on like, how was your later teen years?

Amanda 5:26

Then when I was the ripe old age of 16, I met an 18-year-old male who I decided was going to be my husband. So I fell deeply in love and then entered a now looking back at it, I can say a coercive controlled domestic violent marriage. We were together for about 23 years. But yeah, at the at 16, I decided that I was in love and uh did love him. But yeah, so I entered a relationship that controlled that 20 next 20 years.

Trudie Marie 6:01

Wow. Looking back that on that, because they say hindsight is 2020 vision, but when you think back to that time that you just in your previous year you'd gone through this awful assault, and then now you've turned to this boy who is becoming a man because he's two years older than you. Do you think that that's part of why you fell in love with him so young? Was that all this had happened, I'm assuming, with boys your age, you were now looking for, and you just lost your dad through divorce, that you were now looking for somebody older to be there for you as almost like a protector?

Amanda 6:39

Definitely protector role. And so when the control and the dominating traits of him, I guess, came through, it felt kind of safe because I'd lost that trust in myself to be able to trust people and know when I was in a safe relationship or in a safe situation. So yeah, he became like a protector. And also because I was Catholic. And so back to the Catholic thing, what was I gonna do? Just keep like I I settled down, and all I wanted to do when I was a kid was be a mum and be a wife. So I thought, wow, I can't believe I've met the person when I was so young. So ticked all my boxes in my little 16-year-old mind that was already quite traumatized, but pushed down. Yeah.

Trudie Marie 7:32

Yeah, aside from the sex assault part, I can relate to being the Catholic girl. I too was raised Catholic, and it's your opinions of what your parents put on you about what you should and shouldn't do as a young girl growing up and that kind of thing. So I totally get that aspect of your story because I feel like I was there. I mean, I was I met my husband, and he was the first person I ever gave my virginity to. So I I can totally relate to that. You said that you wanted to be a mum and be a wife. Your husband and your you had children?

Amanda 8:05

Yes, we ended up having six children. I always said I wanted 10, but I got to six, and then my eldest was a teenager, and I went, oh no, what have I done? I have to go through this another five times. He wasn't an easy teenager, so we stopped. So we have five sons, and then our youngest is a daughter.

Trudie Marie 8:25

Okay, so five rambunctious boys, no doubt, and then your one girl. And what was it like for you being in this what you just you say now is a coercive control domestic violence relationship? What was that like for you having your children there as part of that?

Amanda 8:47

I thought that I protected the children a lot from it. I thought it was mainly directed at me. A lot of, I think there was a lot of sort of his narrative towards me teaching the kids not to respect me and not to listen to me. So I was a stay-at-home mum for at least 18 years. I wanted to be a stay-at-home mum for until all the children went to school. It consisted of me not having my own vehicle. So we only had one vehicle, and if he needed it for work, he took priority. So he took the car, and I would have to find other ways to get the children to school, or I'd have to go and drop him off at five o'clock in the morning, and even if he had lifts or whatever, or you know, budgeting the food and his alcohol and tobacco and his needs took priority when it came to our budget, whereas feeding the family and things like that wasn't so prioritized. But then it was also the that tapping at my own self-belief, at my so if the kids got in trouble at school, it was because of my parenting, or it was like you're not doing a good enough job, or the house isn't clean enough, or what are you doing? You're not keeping up to his expectations. So it was I did most of the parenting and things like that. He came along for family events and put on the happy face and everything, but he was a very quiet person, and so a lot of people didn't know what was going on the inside.

Trudie Marie 10:20

And for a lot of people, that's what they don't understand in those coercive control relationships, is that on the outside and the persona that they present to the rest of society, is it you would come across as the happy family at family events or social events, but nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors, and that's where they almost flick a switch and become a completely different person.

Amanda 10:45

Oh, definitely. And my friends, I was not allowed to have friends of my own choosing. They had to be, I don't know, vented by him, you know what I mean? Like, because he smoked marijuana as well. So they had to be okay with that. It wasn't like we could just have people who might get him into trouble. So all my friendships, which I've got, luckily for me, I met beautiful women along the way and I was able to really have good, close relationships with good women. But again, even with them, a lot of it was kept, I kept to myself because I didn't even realize, to be honest, probably because I carried so much guilt and shame. So when I told him about what had actually happened to me, it was probably only about six or seven months before I met him and what happened to me with the sexual assault. He actually said to me, Well, what do you expect? You were drunk. And I was well, maybe like I he'd already put that blame on me and just I guess that fed his ability to manipulate me and mould and I guess chisel away at my self-worth.

Trudie Marie 11:59

Well, you're only 16 when you got together. If we're not vulnerable already as teenagers wanting to be accepted, to be liked, to get interest in the opposite sex, then all of a sudden, like you've had that stripped away by the assault, and now this person is obviously lavishing affections on you. You haven't even established yourself as a person, and he's now starting to manipulate and control how you behave moving forward. I mean, how old were you when you became a mum?

Amanda 12:30

I was 18 when I became a mum. Yeah.

Trudie Marie 12:34

You're barely an adult and you're now a mum, and then you go on to raise six kids. And yes, she said you always wanted to be a mum, but even still, like inside of that relationship, you probably actually had no idea that this was actually going on.

Amanda 12:51

No, I didn't. I had no idea because he was uh, and I guess it's just like society and everything throws at you the if love doesn't hurt, is it love? And if you can't live without him. And I did try to I did try and break up with him a couple of times, but it just it felt too painful. And there was like it was that real up and down, toxic love-hate sort of relationship, not hate, but you know, that love up and down fighting, and then you make up and that real honeymoon. It was the classic example of domestic violence, but it just wasn't, I had no idea. I had no idea, and I was always the problem, according to him.

Trudie Marie 13:34

Yeah. And you had nothing else to really compare to, because like this was a a really first relationship for you, as in adult relationship, that you had nothing else to compare it to. So, what for you then was that I suppose breaking point or awareness point that you went, this is not normal.

Amanda 13:57

Over the years, so at the beginning it was very up and down, and then I decided to, you know, like we had a couple of kids and head down, bum up in the kids, and I just concentrated on that and being a good wife and good mum. He started working away at some point, and he came home one night and he told me that he wanted to sleep with other people. And meanwhile, like I'm at home with six kids. Some of my kids didn't fit the school system, so they were getting in trouble. I was always upset because the kids were and he'd be working away at the pub and wouldn't ring, and all I wanted to do was talk to my husband, and I didn't have any. It was always that real give you love, take it away. Give you, take it away. And you're always hanging on the hook of does he love me, does he not? And so when he asked me when he was when I was about 35 if he could sleep with other people, I was so naive, Trudy. I had no idea that there could even be women out where he was working. I was like, I was just thinking it was just him and a bunch of men. And the reason why he asked, like, he decided that was the night, I think, was because I just decided that I was gonna go out dancing with some of my friends. Like I said, I didn't drink, I could sober drive, I never went out by myself. And I think that was my punishment in me going out and taking four or five hours for myself. That's when I started thinking, is this what I want to do? And because where I want to be, and because I got upset that night and I said, no, I don't want you sleeping with anyone else. We had a fight and he physically shoved me, and I fell over the bed, and I hit my head on the wall, and he just looked down at me and he walked out of the room like he was disgusted, and he left and he went away working away the next day for about 10 days. And I realized in that moment that he could have killed me because I was my head was right near cabinet, and I was like, I still hadn't decided that I was gonna leave. I had whiplash, ended up going to the hospital a few days later just to get chest x-rays. When they asked me what had happened, I lied and told them that the horse had headbutted me because we had a big mortgage. He was the only income earner. I didn't have a I hadn't worked

Nursing Uni Sparks A Reality Check

Amanda 16:20

since I was a kid. Where was I gonna go with six kids? My children, they were unaware, so in their eyes, dad, they loved their dad, and that was fine, but they would have argued with me if I'd said we're leaving. They would have I would have had to fight not only him, but six kids as well, if that and I didn't know where to go. So I ended up deciding that I was gonna go to university and become a nurse. That would at least that would provide me with a income source. And if I left the marriage, at least I had a way of providing for myself. And if I if the marriage worked out, I had a job once my daughter went to school. So I went to university and started nursing. And we sold that house and we got a smaller mortgage, and then I asked him to stop working and to help with the kids because our sons were entering teenage years. So he stopped for a little bit just to exit that. And we went to marriage counseling as well once or twice until he decided we weren't going anymore.

Trudie Marie 17:21

Yeah, so and I think that's a really important point to reiterate to listeners is that sometimes the one question that gets asked all the time in DV is why did you not leave? And leaving is not always that easy or that simple. And in a coercive control relationship, where, like you said, you only had one car, you weren't employed, you were the stay-at-home parent, all the control lies with him. So if you were to leave and start over, what with is the question. So I totally understand or have empathy for the position of which you were in. And like you said, going to university was a two-way street. One, you could educate yourself and start to get an income. And if you ever found yourself on your own, that would be okay. But then likewise, if the relationship worked, you would be able to contribute to the relationship and the income would increase. Obviously, it's especially as the kids got older and their needs get greater as they do. But during that time, and I suppose your exposure to more people, more ideas, what happens in hospitals, in nursing, and that sort of thing, did that expose you to a lot more that actually really had you question your relationship?

Amanda 18:45

Oh, for sure. Because when I was married, or throughout the marriage, I guess he would sprinkle the doubt into me. You're fake, Amanda. You should hear what people say about you. They're not actually your friends and things like that. And I guess my children were my safe bubble. They were my my little gang. I didn't need a lot of people in my life. I had good friends and things, but I hadn't really stepped out on my own by myself without my kids and without him. So when I started going to uni, I made a pledge to myself, I'm just going there to study, and I won't make friends. And I did make friends, and they spoke very kindly to me. And I wasn't just a mum of six, and I wasn't his wife. I was Amanda and I was an individual. I guess I started being exposed to how people speak to each other as well, and the kindness and the empathy and the respect that you can get from men and women. I did make male friends as well. And then being in the hospital, but it was during a uni class that we were talking about domestic violence, and they brought up the circle of violence, and that I was overwhelmed because I could give an example for every triangle: the financial, the sexual, the isolation. He would tell me that if I left, he would keep the children. He wasn't paying child support for six children. Even though he accused me of the kids not all not being his Shigo figure, it was like I could give an example of every triangle, and that's when I realized how how deep in I was, how much of that abuse was actually happening.

Trudie Marie 20:34

And that's a sad reality check when it takes something like that for you to assess your life, and you're not doing it even in a private way. You're sitting probably in a lecture theater with a bunch of other students who are younger than you and starting to have that reality check that wow, this is actually my life. They're talking about me and I'm dealing with this. Like, how did you even begin to move forward from that? Was there a point where you said, okay, I need an exit plan here, or I need to speak to him about what's going on? What was that actually like for you?

Amanda 21:15

Well, then I had the realizations that I was, and this might sound really terrible, but because I then was aware, I felt like I had a responsibility then. I couldn't just bury my head in the sand anymore because the the mask had been removed, if you will, and I could see clearly what was going on. And then I could look at our six children, and I'm like, I am involved now in raising five potential husbands and five potential fathers and a potential wife, daughter. I was involved, I had a responsibility, then I could see what this impact would probably have on my children if I stayed in the relationship. And I can't remember. But I I remember he sat me down once when I started saying I just started speaking up for myself a bit more. I guess that started then the relationship became more turbulent. And we ended up deciding at one stage, and I don't know if he actually believed this, that we were separating, but we stayed in the same because I think I had about six weeks left of uni. We'd stay in the same house, but I was working on uni, so I was out most of the time, and he would leave on the weekends. So we did that for probably about a week. And one day when and I thought that would work and then we'd work it out, but it seemed too good to be true. I'd bought a new phone and he had kept my old phone that I didn't realise. I couldn't find it one day. And of course, when I was at placement or something, he went through my phone and he decided that he didn't like text messages that I'd been sending to whatever it was about because I had single friends and he didn't like that. So he texted me and said that, and in his eyes, he thought I'd cheated. So he sent me a text at placement and said, You're out, slut, your bags are packed and you're not coming back. And I knew then that it was very dangerous if I even thought about staying in that house because I was actually really scared that he would either disable me, really, really hurt me for the rest of my life where I wasn't able to or the worst case scenario, I I did not feel safe going back home. So I was throwing into I used to call it the bridge. When I'd think about leaving, I'd arrive at the bridge and I'd look at the bridge and I'd go, How am I gonna is the bridge gonna carry me and six kids? How am I gonna get across? I don't even know what's on the other side of the bridge. And I'd always think, Oh, am I gonna put that energy into going into the unknown or will I turn around and put that energy back into my marriage and trying to build a happy life? So I always used to turn around

The Night She Flees With Police

Amanda 24:05

and I ended up on the bridge with no planning and no no idea what it was. So I actually rang the police and asked them to attend my house that night so I could pick up my plastic bag of clothes that he'd packed for me.

Trudie Marie 24:23

Wow. So in one moment of him discovering text messages which he didn't agree with, and he's already starting to isolate you, that he decides that your life is literally reduced to one plastic bag of clothes.

Amanda 24:40

Yep. 23 years, I didn't get to say goodbye to my pets. I didn't see my pets again. He kept all my photos of my kids, all my hard drives, everything. And he it was one bag of clothes that night that he gave me, and the police came and I swear the police thought I was overreacting because he was so calm. And he was telling the police it's right, officer, she can come back in a couple of nights. I just need to calm down. And he had the phone, so he was showing them the text messages, and there was no context or anything. Yeah, and I had to leave. And he lined the kids up and I had to say goodbye, and because he wasn't gonna let me take the children, and the police were like, Well, you can come back in a couple of nights, it's okay.

Trudie Marie 26:05

And you said earlier that he had already threatened you that don't ever leave because you're not getting the kids, I'm not paying child support for six kids. So, in that moment, you had to walk away from the family that you've raised because you said that you were a stay-at-home mum, a care a primary caregiver, and he's literally stripping all that away from you. How old were your kids? What age ranges were they at that time?

Amanda 26:35

My oldest was over 18, so he wasn't living at home. So from there, though I think he my oldest was about 19, maybe, and then they would have been like 16 downwards to, I think my daughter was about six or seven range. There was, yeah, there was about two years in between each kid. I had six and twelve years.

Trudie Marie 26:58

Yeah, so you having to literally not come home just come home and have your life reduced to a plastic bag, but you're literally having your kids taken away from you in that moment, like you're being forced to say bye to them.

Amanda 27:15

In my opinion, in that exact moment, if I'd tried to stay, I don't think they would have a mum talking to you. I don't think I'd be here right now, to be completely honest.

Trudie Marie 27:26

Wow, it's such a dangerous place to be in, and just having to think about not just yourself, but the safety of your own children as well, trying to keep the peace in that moment, which you'd probably already been trying to do over the previous couple of years, but now it's time to it's come to a head. How did that then go moving forward? Obviously, with dealing with a divorce and custody orders and dealing with the family court and things like that. How did that play out?

Amanda 27:57

So at the beginning, I went and stayed with my mum, who lived in the same town, and he allowed me to sort of, once I got my own little unit and everything, but I remember at my mum's place, there was no domestic violence order in place at that stage. And I remember one night I was sitting at mum's doing an assignment for uni, and he sent me a text and it was like, I remember that thing that I said I wanted to do to you, or I wanted to do, and I thought he meant self-harming because that was part of the coercive control as well. He'd threatened if I left he would hurt himself or hurt me. And in a way, the children were sort of safer with him because he I felt like if he thought he won, then he wouldn't track me down or hurt the children. So in this text message, he wrote, Remember that thing I wanted to do. And I thought he meant self-harming. I said, Well, you need help. And he said, Oh no, you'll I'll be okay, Amanda. It's you that needs to be worried. And I went, Oh my gosh, I don't know how you can forget that someone's threatened your life, but I was like, Oh my gosh, that's he's threatened to kill me again. And so I went to the police station that night and I got a domestic violence order. Well, I applied for a private one and it was granted. So then after that, there was a stage where I got my own little unit and he we agreed to trial one week on and one week off. I would have the children because he was under a domestic violence order, so he was maintaining behavior, I guess. And so the three little children would come and stay the first week. They came and stayed with me. And we went to a friend's birthday party down at the beach, we had a wonderful time, and when I was dropping them back to their dad's, I saw that their dad was quite intoxicated. He had friends over, and I said, Oh, he was still living in the family home. So I said, Oh, I'll take the kids just for tonight and just trying to really maintain that nice behaviour. So I was like, it's all right, I'll just take him tonight. And anyway, we got into an argument and he actually assaulted me that night, and he was my elder son was there, and my son was protecting me. So the police came and he was not charged under that breach. He wasn't breached for punching me. I had to split lip, I had to go to the hospital, and the police actually put a domestic violence order on me. So then once the once he had the domestic violence order on me, he then manipulated that order and then ceased contact between me and my children. So then I had to go to family court. Meanwhile, in all this, my dad got sick with cancer. So my dad's dying, he's got terminal cancer. I'm back, he's back in my life. This is a long time after he left. So I'm going through family court, trying to work as a registered nurse, not speaking to my children, my youngest three. And so then I had to navigate the family court system, which was then traumatizing in itself as well. It was just so it was so much trauma and so much post-separation. So if the kids, you know, once we started getting a little bit of a visitation under court orders, he would send the police around for welfare checks. And it was just it was really traumatizing for the children as well as me because when I went to court for DV, it was like I was protected. I had a support person. But then when I went to family court, I was in the same courtroom with him. I had to squeeze, he would, he would wait until we walked in the door, squeeze through this little, it felt like it was this miniature door, and he would wait for me. And his energy just so close to me would just send me into this spiral of my body would just react in such a violent way. So then I ended up just agreeing to every second weekend with the children. So one of my children had stopped talking to me. My fifth son had stopped talking to me because then my partner, my ex-husband, sorry, he got a new partner, and she started making the children call her mum, and they weren't allowed to call me mum or Amanda. I was BM. That's how they had to address me. My phone calls with them were very limited and controlled. I had to ring on certain times, even if I was working, I had to, there was no negotiation of times. And so two of my youngest children, my fourth son and my daughter, maintained visitation with me very controlled. It was every second weekend and half the school holidays that I agreed to just to stop family court because it was just I was being accused of abusing the children and police welfare checks every time I had the kids with me and things like that. So it was just really traumatizing for the kids as well.

Trudie Marie 32:45

The coercive control hasn't even just ceased with the relationship,

Family Court And Post-Separation Abuse

Trudie Marie 32:49

it's continued to the point where it's being manipulated with departments like aka family court making you out, having welfare checks done on you while the children are in your care, but to then go and have a new partner and manipulate and control that relationship with the children to not call you mum or Amanda, but to call you BM as in birth mother, like you were their mother right up until and you were the primary caregiver right up until the point that you separated. How do you turn from being an okay mother during that time to literally being this evil, manipulative person who is going to turn on the child? Like, how does that even begin to work in people's minds?

Amanda 33:40

I I I couldn't, I didn't even know this was a possibility. I had no idea that things like parental alienation and post-separation abuse using the systems was it just didn't, it blew my mind. I had no idea that this was even a possibility. And I would say that I'm not a stupid woman, but I'm I just had no idea that it was even a possibility. And then to actually have, and the way he manipulated the wording on the domestic violence order, he would manipulate that. So I'd try and go and see my daughter at a concert at school, and the principal would come out and say, You're not allowed here, you're only allowed here on a Friday afternoon at four. I'm like, no, that's just to protect my right to come here. I'm allowed to come here anytime and see my daughter perform. It was, and the court orders, he manipulated the wording in ways that it was just and like walking into that school. I'd been a mum at that school, stay-at-home mum. I was there, I'd put 15 years, and then I was like, it was the walk of shame because I he just removed me. I didn't even know it was possible to be removed off emergency contacts or anything. He just removed me from all of those things, and I had no idea. And then it was like no one even checked on me to make sure that I was okay. It was insane. I could not believe that this could happen. And then to have what the children had to just live through, I was just trying to really then maintain a safe place from my end for the children. So try not to make it even worse. And so, yeah, I guess in a way, I maybe, I don't know, if you look at it, maybe I let, I don't know. I everything that I did, I was just trying to make it as safe for the children and not add more trauma to their life because I couldn't believe what they would have been going through.

Trudie Marie 35:39

It's horrible to see any child used as a pawn in parent separation games as a former police officer. I've seen that used and abused so many times. But to hear it in this particular way, where they're manipulating a school that you used to be part of, a new relationship, the relationship with your children. And no one could ever question that in the big scheme of things, you just want what is best for your children. And sometimes that means if you have to enable certain behaviors to keep your children safe, then you you would do, you would go to the ends of the earth. And I'm speaking myself as a mother here, that you would do that to make sure that your children were okay. But what I am going to ask you is what was that actually like for you? Because it's almost like in an instant that uh identity of wife, that identity of mother, and uh every other identity that falls in that place, like school mum, whatever the case you want to say, you've now had that all stripped away from you. And you're sitting here going, who at who's Amanda?

Amanda 36:57

Oh, and then add on top of that, my dad died in the same year. So I lost every I lost mother, daughter, wife title, it felt like, overnight. And I found myself in a quirky little house that I'd rented for me and dad on an acreage or in the bush, and there was a river running down the back, and I trudy to be completely honest, there was many times when I'd wanted to disappear into I didn't know who I was. I'd been 16 when I met him. I didn't even know what I like to eat for me because I'd always been cooking for other people and I didn't know who I was and it nearly destroyed me, it nearly took me. But I had to stay here for my children. I wasn't gonna let him win, if that makes sense. It nearly it was a very, it was a very, very, very dark time. I had no idea who I was, and I didn't know if I wanted to, I didn't even know where to start rebuilding, and I didn't even know if I wanted to. But then I would always circle back to I am not going to let him win. He wants me to end this, and I'm not gonna do that. I'm not I would have stayed if I was gonna. So it took a lot of a lot of traveling down very deep and dark times to get through that period and rebuild.

Trudie Marie 38:24

And what was the saving grace for you? Because I totally get it as a mother that you want to do what's right, and I've also been in that position where you question your identity and question what path do you even begin to take when all that's stripped away from you? Not in your sense, like I'm just thinking to have all of that stripped away from you in an instant. How did you even begin? Like, was there a turning point where you went, right, this is the start of the next chapter for me?

Amanda 38:57

Yeah. So when dad passed, I'd rented this house and it was a weird little quirky house in the bush, and there was a river down the back.

Meditation As Medication For Grief

Amanda 39:04

And I made a pact to myself, right? Well, you're not gonna, you're not gonna turn to drugs or alcohol to get through this, because I could have. I'm like, you don't need to get through this and have something else to recover from. So I turned to meditation. I'd never meditated before, but I needed something. So I turned to meditation and I started meditating and I started walking down to the river and I started trying to be who I just looking for little things that would get me through. And I remember this one time, meditation became like a medication to me. Days off, I would remember thinking, oh gee, oh, I had six kids. Oh, I'm never gonna get any time by myself. And then when I was presented with so much time by myself, I hated it. It brought me anxiety because I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I remember this one time I had days off work and I was like crying down the phone to mom, and I'm like, Mom, I'm alone, I'm alone. She's like, I'll come out and I'll be with you. And I'm like, no, I need to get through this myself. I need to do this. And so I said, I'll go and meditate. And I went and meditated and I was like crying, and I'm like, how can I feel joy again? How can I live a healthy, happy life when I don't have my children? Like, that feels like I'm betraying them. Who, what kind of mother is happy if her children aren't in her life? And I meditated and that brought me a lot of peace. And it's still the voices in my head, his voice, especially. And in that meditation, it occurred to me that if I heal myself and I love myself and I let go of that guilt, which I still carry. I don't think that'll ever go away. But if I heal myself, it'll heal my children. And that was the only thing that I could do. It's the only control that I had. And I think it worked. I think it worked. I really do think it worked because then I was I sound like a lunatic because I'd just been crying down the phone to mum. And then an hour later I rang out my mom, it's okay. I can be, it's okay if I heal me, I can heal that'll heal the children because I'll be a better version of myself. So when they do come to me, I can be the best healed version of myself. So then I can support them because I always trusted that the connection between mother and child is so strong, nothing can take that away. And I trusted that. And I went, I'm gonna be the best version of myself. So when the kids come back fully to me, and I can have a relationship with them. I remember a police officer said to me, He said, I see what you're doing. He said, I see what you're going through. And he said, Please remember that children are adults longer than their children. And he said, and they're gonna come back to you when they're adults and they can make their own choices. And so that's what I decided that I was going to be the best version of myself and healed.

Trudie Marie 42:01

It sounds like a bit of a spiritual awakening, like having that meditative state that comes to you and you're like, right, this is what I need to do moving forward. So, how did that actually look in reality? Was there something like you're obviously a nurse already, but what went forward from that? What did you create in your life moving forward from that moment?

Amanda 42:25

Well, then once I started understanding that, because that was a that was a pure, it was like the word of God, boom, it was so loud and clear. And so then I started looking into manifestation and things like that. And then I started looking into the power of now and that I can only control this moment, and then that builds my future. And so I just tried to really pinpoint where I put my energy and what I focused on and what I could control, and then I started building myself and listening to myself. I'd go down, I'd live down 50 acres, I'd walk down to the river, and this little voice in me say, strip off, swim naked in the river. I'm like, oh, and there's no one around. I'll swim. So I'd jump in the, and then when I walked home, I'd just put a shawl around me and it just felt so tribal and primal. And then I started dating myself. I started working out who I was and I started journaling. I was always a writer, so I started a blog and writing and just working towards being the best version of myself and always maintaining my kind and gentle heart. I wasn't going to let this destroy me. I wasn't going to turn bitter and cold towards the world because I wasn't, I didn't leave the marriage to end my life and not live a happy life afterwards. I would have stayed there if that's what I wanted to do. So I needed to set an example for my children of who I wanted them to see and be.

Trudie Marie 43:56

And now your children have become adults because you said off camera they're aged between 18 and 30 now. How have you been able to forge relationships with your children over the years and now into their adulthood?

Amanda 44:14

Yeah. So my eldest son and I have always, he never stopped speaking to me or turned his back on me, actually helped me through the death of dad and things like that. So we've always been good and close. My second and third son, they were older teenagers. So it took a little bit of time just for them to believe that I was who I had to show them that I was who I am. Who they knew I was, not what they were hearing I was. So that took a couple of years, and just of me just maintaining a safe space for them. And then my fifth son unfortunately doesn't speak to me at the moment still. So he came and lived with. So their dad would kick him out when they got to a certain age. And then I would always just open my doors and say, you can come and live with me. And so he did come back. And then when he went back to his dad, because I never wanted them to stop live if they wanted to go and live with their dad, I wasn't going to do to them what he did to them. So when he went back to his dad, he stopped speaking to me again. So that's been another he stopped speaking to me for about five years, came back for two years, and hasn't been talking to me for another two years now. And then my fourth son and my daughter, they maintain contact through those visitations. But now that they're adults, and like I said, I and I'm very close. So I've rebuilt really close loving relationships with five of the children. My other son, that I my my arms are always open. I'll never, we never, that's up to him. And when he's ready. But yeah, no, we've got I've got really close, beautiful relationships with five of the six, like really, really close. And I'm really grateful for that.

Trudie Marie 45:54

Did you do you think that inside of the manipulation and control that you had to endure as a mother, that your children had to endure that as children? I mean, the fact that they were told that they couldn't call you mum or Amanda, that they were told to call you BM, like that still just blows my mind. But that inside of that manipulation and control behavior, that they were almost had to abide by their dad's rules for their own safety. And in becoming adults and leaving the family home, that they were now free to choose to come back to you anyway.

Amanda 46:33

That's exactly right. Because they knew that if they tried to really push a relationship with me while they still live with their dad, they would, they could lose the relationship with their dad. And some of them weren't ready to do that. And so, yes, as they've stepped out into adulthood and living their own lives, they're able to then have a relationship with me on their own terms rather than because, like you said, it was safer for them if they played by their dad's rules, and that's why I saw myself almost like a fairy godmother parenting from the outside. I just made sure our time together was very quality, not quantity.

Trudie Marie 47:13

Yeah, totally get it. You've got to work what's best for the situation sometimes. It may not be the best long-term situation, or it may not be the best short-term situation, but you have to make the most of what you've got. And like you said before, it's controlling the controllables.

Amanda 47:33

That's exactly right. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. We did we all did the best that we could do. And now 10 years out, I'm in a happy relationship, healthy relationship. My kids have got a really good stepdad and they love him and he loves them. I've got four little dogs that don't stop barking. I've got kids and I work and I've written a memoir and I do a lot of spiritual work, and I'm a Reiki practitioner. I still meditate, still write. So yeah, I'm now creating the life, and that's what I try and show my children that life is going to give you ups and downs, and it can be very traumatic sometimes, and you can have everything ripped out from underneath you, but you can always rebuild. Always. If you're there and you give it and you, yeah, you can heal and you can rebuild.

Trudie Marie 48:21

And that's hopefully you've said that because yes, we can go down some really dark holes. Uh, and I relate to that to my own circumstance where I used to say it was like being at the bottom of a well and trying to look for that light up near the surface and working towards that light, but it is up to our ourselves to actually no one else

Minute By Minute Out Of Darkness

Trudie Marie 48:44

is coming to save us. We have to save and heal ourselves and rebuild ourselves and our lives. That's exactly right.

Amanda 48:52

And that's I really had to step out of the victim. I call it a victim costume. I'm not denying that what I went through wasn't really bad because it was, but I found that while I stood there and I would just stand in this victim costume going, look at what's done to me, look at what's done to me. I was trapped. I was trapped in what was going on and I wasn't moving forward. And I always remember thinking a never-ending story when I know it's the most tragic scene when the horse gets stuck in the and one of my sons is actually named after a trail because that's how much I love that movie. And the horse stuck in the swamp of sadness. I just kept thinking to myself, I'm not going to get stuck in the swamp of sadness because that's what drowned the horse. Like, I'm going to get stuck here and it's going to drown me. I need to keep me moving forward. And that might have meant sometimes minute by minute. It was times when I had to go, I just need to do what's in front of me right now. And that's all I can cope with. And then other times I'm like leaping and bounding. So yeah, but I really had to take control of my, I had to quieten the voice therapy. I went to therapy and a lot of inner work and a lot of healing through spiritual work as well.

Trudie Marie 50:06

I love that analogy of being stuck. I love the never-ending story too, growing up. And I think our generation are all traumatized by that particular story. But it's so true that it's up to us to pull ourselves out. I mean, that instant, it's a perfect analogy that you can either stay and be swallowed up by the sadness and the grief and the trauma, or you can step out of that and get through it and create something bold and beautiful on the other side. And it sounds like that's what you've been able to do. And what's there for me inside of your whole story is that something really bad happened to you at 15. At 16, you entered a relationship that you had no idea what was in store for you. And you've been through that for the over the last 20, 30 years of dealing with that. But now, as you step into your 50th year, you're able to come into that period of wisdom and maturity and grace, but owning exactly who Amanda is for the really the first time in your life.

Amanda 51:16

Exactly. And I call myself a bog witch because I am a bit of a bog witch, but I'm a bog witch who loves her life, and I'm I can be as quirky and weird and wonderful, and I've got a partner who welcomes all of that now. And even before that, it was because I had learned who I was, and I'm still learning. It still twists and turns, and you're still up and down, and I don't know who I'm gonna be tomorrow, let alone five years' time, but I'm allowed to be who I am now. I can I'm in control of who I am, and I love that, and I'm allowed to wear whichever costume I want to put on that day, and whatever I wanna, yeah, who I want to be, and strip away and put in and learn and yeah, and create and live my just beautiful life. And that actually helps my children because they don't have to worry about me either. They can go and live their lives.

Trudie Marie 52:09

I think that's such a beautiful position to be in, is where you get to enjoy your life, but then your children get to see you be the best version of yourself, which then creates a space where they get to be the best versions of themselves too.

Amanda 52:25

Exactly. Yeah, I totally agree, Trudy. And yeah, yeah, no, that's yeah, I agree.

Trudie Marie 52:33

Well, I just want to thank you so much for vulnerably sharing your story because I know it's not easy to bring up the past. I know it's not easy to actually reflect and be responsible for the life that has happened to us and for us, because it takes courage to go there and just really admit to how your life has played out and how you get to move forward because of the decisions you've made and the choices you've made moving forward.

Amanda 53:09

Yeah, thank you so much, and thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And that that is part of why I share my story now, is because my children are all adults, but also hopefully

Reconnecting With Kids And Closing

Amanda 53:20

other people can feel seen and heard and understood, and because this was something that I didn't even know was possible, and it sounds like a very twisted and dark story, you know, some movie script, and that's not even everything. But yeah, so I appreciate you having me on.

Trudie Marie 53:41

No problems at all, because I really think it is one of the most misconstrued parts of domestic violence, is no one really fully grasps the concept of coercive control and the manipulation that can occur in relationships, especially when it like we've mentioned before, it is like one persona is produced in public, and then the minute you're behind closed doors, it's a completely different persona. And it's such a dangerous part of domestic violence because the manipulation and control is so good. It's almost like you said before, it's like they're really good paid actors because they tell one story that nobody else actually gets to see and hear.

Amanda 54:25

Yeah, and that's exactly right. And that was part of my unlearning as well was I had to learn what were my thoughts and what were his and what were his words. And yeah, I remember think I remember when I read this. I remember when I referenced read an affidavit in thought, and I was like, I was reading it thinking, is this maybe this is actually what I am, this is what I did. And then there was this word, these words in there about drug use. I'm like, oh, I know I didn't use drugs, so oh, I didn't do that. It was like I just could grab onto that fact, but the rest of it, he had a real, real good grip on me. He doesn't anymore. He doesn't anymore. It's all my crazy thoughts up there now.

Trudie Marie 55:07

I love that you found that sense of freedom in discovering who you are inside of all of this. And like I said, thank you so much for your vulnerability and your courage in sharing that. And I wish you all the best with your memoir when it comes out and giving the ability for others to read your story and hear your thoughts and not feel alone if they're in a similar journey. And I always like to finish the episode by asking: what is the one thing you are most grateful for today?

Amanda 55:41

One thing I'm most grateful for that I survived. That I survived, and that I'm here to live this beautiful life with my children in my life now. And that's what my memoir is called, She Lives.

Trudie Marie 55:53

Thank you for tuning in to the Everyday Warriors Podcast. If you have an idea for a future episode or a story you'd like to share yourself, then please reach out and message me. As I am always up for real, raw and authentic conversations with other Everyday Warriors. Also, be sure to subscribe so that you can download all the latest episodes as they are published. And spread the word to your family and friends and colleagues so they can listen in too. If you're sharing on social media, please be sure to tag me so that I can personally acknowledge you. I'm always open to comment about how these episodes have resonated with you, the listener. And remember, lead with love as you live this one wild and precious life.