Your Business Isn’t the Problem - You Are! | Mark Musselman

What if your business problems weren’t really about your business at all—but about you? In this episode of MarketPulse: Pros & Pioneers, we sit down with Mark Musselman, a leadership veteran and founder of MX5 Consulting, who’s helped steer multimillion-dollar companies and now works with CEOs to navigate their greatest personal and professional hurdles. He shares the hard-earned lessons from running $30M+ organisations, including the moment he had to take his own family business through bankruptcy—and how that shaped the no-nonsense leadership approach he teaches today.

Mark isn’t your typical coach. He’s lived the highs and lows of business firsthand and brings a refreshing, raw honesty to every conversation. From toxic positivity in the boardroom to social media facades, this episode peels back the curtain on what leaders are really thinking—and why most never talk about it. You’ll hear the kind of stories that rarely get shared, and insights that’ll make you rethink how you lead, manage, and show up for your team.

This episode explores the exponential impact of coaching, how to use AI without losing your human touch, and why vulnerability is your strongest asset in business. Mark also breaks down the myths around leadership, explains how to stay productive in a world built for distraction, and reveals what CEOs are really saying at home when no one’s watching.

If you’re feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or just tired of the polished success stories, this one’s for you. Mark’s message is simple but powerful—your business isn’t the problem. You are. And that’s not a bad thing. It’s an invitation to lead better.

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Transcript

Paul: 0:29

What makes a great leader? Mark Musselman has built and coached multimillion dollar businesses, and he's here to talk about the no bullshit leadership lessons that actually drive growth. Mark is a business leader an entrepreneur and executive coach with over 30 years of experience in guiding leaders and businesses through transformation. As the founder of MX5 Consulting, Mark helps business owners, entrepreneurs, and C-level executives break through challenges and accelerate growth using his assess, align, accelerate methodology. Having already led two$30 million plus businesses as A CEO, he understands firsthand the struggles of leadership and the need for strategic clarity. And in addition to coaching, mark co-founded Tula Mexican Grill in Dublin, applying his business acumen to the hospitality industry. With a no BS approach to leadership, Mark's committed to helping leaders just like you take real action, foster, trust, and create businesses that don't just grow but thrive. Mark, as ever, that is a tall bio to live up to, but I'm confident you're gonna smash this. Welcome to the show.

Mark: 1:42

Well, thank you Paul. That's great to be here.

Paul: 1:44

you've been a CEO, an entrepreneur. An executive coach what was the turning point that made you, first of all, want to get into senior leadership? Because there's not, as a kid not many people come along and decide they wanna run a company, right? Like, that's not where we, that's not where we start out. How did you end up, first of all, becoming a CEO?

Mark: 2:07

That's a great question. I think what I have reflected on is when I was young all the way through my primary education, through, you know, what we refer to as high school and then university. I never really was overly excited about anything in particular. It is demonstrated by the fact that I had five different, you know, majors when I came through university and so my attention was kind of going from one topic to another, and then immediately after I graduated from college and went into the work world I began to pay attention to this idea of leadership. And it was the first thing really in my life it kinda lit me on fire and. It was through an experience I had in my first job where I had the opportunity to observe great leadership and, you know, degrees of very unhealthy leadership that it really kind of woke me up to the fact that role makes all the difference in the world. And, you know, as we can look around just globally, you know, great leadership makes a huge difference in. every facet of life. So I just became fascinated with it, and then I poured myself into it. I also happened to have the, you know, the good fortune of being born into a family that had a family business. I'm one of five kids, all five of us were in the business. It was a about 300 and some employees. And I had a sort of flavor for that role and. You know, my siblings didn't have as much of that flavor as I did, I ended up taking over the family business at 30 years old with 300 employees and 30 million in revenue, and knew enough about myself to know that I didn't know all I needed to know to run it. And I hired my first coach in 1999 when I took over that role, and that was like the catalyst. So, and I've never stopped. Being fascinated with and doing everything I can to learn everything I can about leadership since that moment.

Paul: 4:09

It is funny. So many great leaders that I speak to almost seem to become a great leader. In spite of the bad leadership that they experience at a young age and in their first jobs and workplaces that they're in. And it kind of, you'd expect it to almost deter people from wanting to become leaders. But I find that the greedy, good leaders see that and they just think, you don't need, these, people don't need to be bad leaders. We're all capable of being a good leader, if not a great one. At least a good leader. There's just so much. Lack of development for leadership. Do you think that's fair?

Mark: 4:46

Well, I think it's very fair. I think what I'm surprised by every day. Mostly because I live in it and I kind of swim in that water. So it seems to me self-evident. There's, you know, a set of skills and it's a, it can be, I think it's more of a learned set of skills than an inherited set of skills. And I'd say, you know, my journey is included thousands of hours of reading and watching content, like a show like this. Attending seminars, workshops, and. I look at it as my leadership toolbox, right? So I would listen to a podcast like this with the hopes that there is something in the conversation that I can add to my toolbox. so, you know, I think that many people show up may assume a position or may that you know, may have pursued a position of leadership, and then they stop growing. They stop learning, and they assume they have all they need. In order to be eff effective in that role. And most people are under equipped, let me put it that way, because

Paul: 5:52

Yep.

Mark: 5:53

many challenges that a leader faces. and obviously the more complex the business organization, the more complex and diverse the challenges. So, you know, you have to be able to have robust toolbox where a circumstance appears in front of you, and it could just be. That's a phenomenal skill for a leader when the, you know, I'd say the reflex is to move and to do something just to stop do nothing and listen and slow down. you know, those are things that are developed over time. You know, having made many mistakes in my younger version of a leader, you know, when I just rushed

Paul: 6:35

Yep.

Mark: 6:36

decision making or judgment or assumption, to find out that. All of what I had assumed was incorrect, and then having to rewind it. So, I mean, I could go down the list and we could talk for, you know, a couple hours about all those, you know, unique skills. So partnering with somebody, if you don't already have that, or committing yourself deeply in whatever form works for you to acquire those skills is essential.

Paul: 7:02

So that leads us on nicely to the first question that I wanted to really delve into in a bit more detail. So you've led, you know, a$30 million business. No doubt you've helped countless leaders as part of your executive coaching, but what's the toughest leadership lesson that you've had to learn personally?

Mark: 7:18

Yeah I think the toughest leadership lesson that I learned early and that I share often and I'm gonna say this in the sense that you know theres an axiom that kinda runs around sometimes. It says if you take care of the people, business will take care of itself, which I think can be true. You know, certainly if you take care of the people, the business has a greater chance of succeeding. I would say the distinction is, as a leader, as a CEO entrepreneur, you have to have your eyes on both. I say that because. When I took that role as CEO of my family's business, we had an amazing culture. And the people in the business, all 300 of them were loved and cared for greatly. Having that as a background, this idea of you take care of the people, the business will take care of itself, you know, expose the blind spot, which is you have to take care of the people and you have to take care of the business. That seems self-evident, but sometimes. And in our case, I think we got a little bit lost in all that. How that can show up is, you know, that there was so much focus on welfare and the health and the culture of the business that some of the basic fundamental needs of the business itself were not as par essential to our focus as it should have been. So that led my family's business after 50 years of ownership. period of going through bankruptcy back in 2008-9 was also coincidental with some market challenges at that time. If you remember the 2008, nine period, you know, for us it was a pretty significant recession and anyway, so I had the unfortunate of unwinding and taking a family business through bankruptcy after 50 years of family ownership. I would say because. It wasn't a both, it was, we put too much emphasis and too much focus on that piece. So, that's a very personal story. But it's one that I often share with clients when I come across their tendency to listen to that axiom and then operate outta that same place. So just probably very unique, but that's my experience with one of the biggest lessons I've ever learned.

Paul: 9:35

I think thank you very much for sharing that as well.'cause I can imagine that's quite a tough story to to share emotionally as well. But I imagine that you come across quite a lot of people who are predominantly sat on one side of that fence or the other, right? They either care too much about their people or they don't care anywhere near enough about their people. I. And it's about finding that balance in the middle.

Mark: 9:54

Think that's a great way of saying it. I don't know. I mean, I would say, I don't know if there's a way you could ever care too much about the people. It's just that if you're gonna spend that amount of time, you know, focused on the welfare and the health and, you know, and the work environment that affects people, you also have to be incredibly mindful of all the details that, you know, are the behind the complexities of running a successful, profitable, sustainable business. And, you know, so, and you had said there might be a lot of pain in there. There, there used to be. But now I speak about it as a thing openly. I used to be ashamed of all that, but I, you know, it's, a way for me also when I work with business owners, most business owners, CEOs live with a fear, and the biggest fear is that they might somehow end up down that path of losing everything. having already been down that journey and, you know, come up on the other side. It is interesting because a it's a little bit disarming. You know, I'm not the guy who shows up all the time with, oh my goodness, I've only got the success. You know, we sold our business for, you know, 10 million and I'm a superhero, none of that. So it, there's

Paul: 11:05

Yeah.

Mark: 11:06

an ax, an accessibility that's afforded really as a result of that story that I would've never intended or known about. so I, I don't go outta my way to tell it, create that. I. Outcome, but it is disarming. And then people become interested in like, oh, wow. Well, you know, I'm facing a set of challenges. They tend to be more open, they tend to be more honest. let's face it, you know, most people who operate in the world of business live in a world of pretense. Many, you know, are trying to look good, avoid looking bad, they'll pretty much say or do anything to continue they want others to see them being instead of what's actually going on. So. That's, it's been an unintended kind of consequence from the whole experience. But I find it to be really effective in my ability to connect with business owners and CEOs.

Paul: 11:56

I think that, you know, when I align a lot with that. A challenge around toxic positivity, you know, and I see that a lot on social media. It's not like, but it pervades into personal lives and conversations as well. People think it's just social media where we're doing that. We don't, we do that in people who are afraid to allow the bumps of the road to be seen by others. They generally do it in their own lives, to their wives, to their partners, to their children, to their friends and families, and it. I, it makes me sad when I see that because, you know, I'm very I feel like it's a gift that I have an ability to be open and vulnerable with almost anyone, probably too much sometimes I overshare. But you know, that vulnerability is what allows us to create genuine connections with people. And when you try and remove that and just showcase your success you've got no common ground with people because. We all learn from our mistakes, right?

Mark: 12:53

Absolutely. I think, thank you for sharing that. I, it sounds like, you know, we are kindred spirits in the sense that I, approach life the same way I. You know, I think we could all sit and have a conversation at length about the challenges that social media has created around, you know, this ability to curate a, an image and then unfortunately for lots of people, they compare themselves to that curated image, they only find themselves falling short of, you know, whatever it is that they're imagining they see. And you know, I have an experience when I was in a round table group of CEOs. This is an interesting insight. And I was part of a group that had 14 CEOs that were together for a number of years as that 2008, 2009, you know, economic adjustment period appeared. You know, globally, there were basically six of us in that group of 14. Who went into and through bankruptcy, out of 14, most of'em, small business owners. not one of those people, including myself, came to the group who had formed a relationship of trust over a number of years being together their issue. And so what it really revealed to me is this unbelievable commitment that people have as leaders, as business owners. To maintain the facade, right? And to try to hold it all together. And, you know, there's a lot that can be talked about in that, you know, space and, you know, one of the gifts of all, you know, one-to-one sort of executive coaching is this idea that you're not, there's no one else to impress, right? So I tell my clients all the time, let's just, let's begin with one premise that you and I are gonna traffic in nothing but the ground truth we start there. a lot can be accomplished if you wanna continue trafficking, you know, in the world of make believe very little is going to, you know, materialize outta this relationship. So it's a ground kind of a rule that I use with like, let's just have a conversation you're not trying to impress anybody, you're not trying to avoid any facts, and we can get into the real issue that you, or issues you're confronting. And if we can do that. The chances of you getting where you wanna go are exponentially improved.

Paul: 15:53

Yep. And I think that's the same in so many aspects of life as well. Not just in executive coaching and business, but in so many different things. So appreciate you sharing that. in terms of the story so far, so then you've kind of wound down the family business. Was that the starting point for you then looking to become an executive coach to kind of help people avoid the same sort of problems or

Mark: 16:13

Yeah, I mean, sometimes you choose your path and sometimes the path can be For you a little bit. So I'd say it's a beautiful blend of both, you know, and, you know, the company actually continued on and it's a long story that I don't want to, you know, bore anybody with. But, you know, the company that my family founded recently, like a year and a half ago, just transacted for$60 million. And it is virtually in the same business as it was, you know, when we left it. So it went through bankruptcy, got bought by some private equity guys and they just took that platform and then grew it and, you know, basically recapitalized it and have done very well with it. So all the employees were, you know, basically whole and complete. It was just the family that lost the ownership of the business. So I got into this thing, having, again hired my first coach in 1999. When that event occurred in 2009, it was like I have a set of skills. And I just had this experience and I have to imagine there's other business owners who are confronting similar circumstances. So, you know, why don't I begin to go out in the world and try to find clients who are challenged with some of the same things and see if I could be of help them? That's where it began. So it was a, you know, when I got to the end of that whole process and I didn't have my role as a CEO in the business and found myself. You know, unemployed and wondering what to do. I said, well, why don't I do what I know how to do? that's what began my journey down this path. I'd say, you know, what I've experienced as a result of it is that when I was the CEO of my family's business, and I've been the CEO of a couple other companies as well you know, you have the. The impact on the organization and the people and the customers and the vendors that are in that orbit, right? As a coach, consultant, advisor the impact is exponential. So, just yesterday I ended up working with two people who have a combined footprint of, you know, maybe a thousand employees in two different businesses. And I wake up this morning and after we're done with this call and this podcast, I'll go on and I'll work with a couple more people today. you know, again, a significant and broad impact on a community of employees and that can go on from there. So I love the exponential impact that I can have now a coach, a consultant, and an advisor, as opposed to, you know, the limited impact I could have in my other roles within a singular organization, if that makes sense.

Paul: 18:48

It does. It does. I wonder, so a lot of the executive coaches and leadership coaches that are out there come from a, the traditional route is from hr, right? Or a psychology background. And I understand why that is. But you are coming from a place of having. Built business yourself and from real world experience how do you feel that helps you be unique in the space that you're in? I'd say marketplace. It's not a marketplace really. It's a community, right? I.

Mark: 19:15

Yeah. Well, I think first and foremost, and I'm gonna use a metaphor here that if had, A drug or alcohol addiction, chances are that if I'm working to find a way out of that addiction, the best place for me to go is to speak to a recovered addict, right? Somebody who'd lived the life that I lived, faced, the challenges that I had faced, and has found their way out of, you know, all of those challenges, you know, through the guidance of somebody who's walked that path. I. I feel similar in the sense that if I were out in the marketplace as a CEO and I'm running a business or an entrepreneur, it would be helpful for me to have somebody who's walked the path that I've walked and faced the challenges that I'm facing. And so I think that's a piece that I say to people all the time I don't think there's a challenge you're gonna tell me I haven't faced personally. Or that I haven't worked with somebody as a client who hasn't faced that same challenge. And in organizations, you know, as a entrepreneur, CEO, it's a very unique role. Every other role in the business, you have individual consciousness, which is me as, you know, a person working in the business. You know, team consciousness, which is maybe it's an functional area, re you know, like a CFO or who has responsibilities for finance. But the one person who lives constantly and never endingly in organizational consciousness is the entrepreneur or CEO, and it's an all consuming 24 hour day, seven day a week, 365. You know, it's that level. It almost is like the business never leaves you even when you're not in it, it's in you. And so. a very unique set of circumstances and unless you've lived that and un, you know, have a deep understanding, I think it's harder to be of service completely and be of help completely to somebody who's going through that. So that's how I. I approach it like, you know, I do it and I listen, I say all the time, I am sure I've made every mistake you could possibly imagine that you are thinking about making. And perhaps my experience of having already made that mistake could help you avoid it, right? So, I lot of hubris, I do not pretend like I have the answers, I own the truth. have the experience I have and have been witness to the experience of many others. hopefully from all that gathered wisdom I can be of help to you.

Paul: 21:49

Well, that's also the premise of being a CEO, right? Is like, you don't need to have all the answers, you just need to know enough about the people around you to get the right answers from other people. Or as one of my, one of my good friends said it's not about having the right answers. It's about asking the right questions. And I think that's a beautiful way to sum up the role of the CEO. It's almost like internal coaching, but you just don't realize that's what the job is. And then kind of bringing us up to modern day, you then you've co-founded a Mexican grill in Dublin. I love that that, that's spun off from what you were doing. How did that come about?'cause you've got a co-founder out, out in Dublin as well, right?

Mark: 22:25

I do. Yeah, Tony is his name. And a long, it's a long story. I'll try to make it as short as possible, but I have been a youth. Coach. I have four kids for 24 years, and I met Tony about 24 years ago when his oldest son and my oldest son like four or five years old, starting to play soccer. And I met him on the sideline. He was one of the parents who brought his son to the team that I was coaching. And then we hit it off and, you know, have kind of remained dear friends and his whole family. I've coached both of his sons, both in. soccer and rugby. been an active, you know, youth rugby coach for about 20 years, and I played for a number of years and refereed, et cetera. So, loved the sport and and so I met Tony in that world and he and I a passion for a business in Colorado in the United States called Chipotle. You may have heard about it. It's a extraordinary successful chain of fast casual Mexican grills. Tony wanted to take this idea of Mexican food back to Ireland. So he did. went through one iteration, exited the first iteration of that back in 2017. and I got, you know, back together. And as he approached his second we talked about partnering. And so he and I have been locked at the hip and we have a phenomenal team of people. Who allowed us to, you know, realize that dream. We have two stores currently open, two opening in the next say, month to two months. And our intent is to, you know, grow it back to a chain of about 20 ish stores Ireland and then come across the pond and you know, try our our hand in the UK as well. So that's our goal. I mean, who doesn't love good food? And, you know, this food is phenomenal. I. It's just really tasty. So that's how I got into it.

Paul: 24:16

I have to say got the I've got the the webpage open and I'm starving. As we're recording this. So the food looks absolutely. I wish, right now I'm wishing I was in Dublin.'cause I think I'd be banging on the business door, so that, that's phenomenal. Coming back again, I guess to the to the executive coaching side of things ai, remote work automation. There are so many nuances to running business in 2025. What do you see as being the single greatest gift and threat to a CEO in the current age?

Mark: 24:50

Yeah. You know, I say this often to clients that I'm grateful that I had my, you know, hand on the wheel running companies when. was not a thing.'cause there's so many variables that are moving at a speed that's almost hard to wrap your head around. The first thing I you know, would advise a client is, you know, avoiding doesn't work right as a principle and hope is not a good strategy. So, you know, those are a couple things just as principles in the background, you know, because. It's evident that AI is here and it's coming, and it will have a tremendous impact virtually everything that we do. And a lot of my podcast consumption is around this particular topic. So there's no avoiding it, there's no pretending it's gonna go away or it's gonna go back and the genie's gonna go back in the bottle. So if all that's true, then you really have to wake up and get engaged. right? If you're not waking up and getting engaged with all of those moving parts, you'll be obsolete, I think, quickly. And I think that runs across the gamut. So, I mean, as an individual, you know, guy who has a small little business with a few people that are involved from a marketing and administrative perspective I use ai. All day long and it is a remarkably effective tool. So you gotta embrace it, you gotta see it. You can't put your head in the sand and pretend it's gonna go away. So identifying, naming, and then figuring out with a team of people. If you have a team, what is your strategy going to be to incorporate AI as a thing when it comes to the remote work environment? Challenges, you know, I think every organization is finding their way. Through this, you know, massive change in even how we define work and what work is. And so, you know, I have clients that have a mandatory five days in some who have, you know, one day in four days out, some who have three in and two. I mean, you've seen it, you know, there's no one way to do anything. I'd really encourage a business owner to find the way. creates a healthy blend between what they need as a CEO and owner and what the employees are, you know, basically advocating for, to create a balance that works for everybody. And that's not an easy thing to solve. So I think we have significant challenges and we're just at the front end of really both of those trends. So, it's a

Paul: 27:36

lot Yeah,

Mark: 27:36

bear. And,

Paul: 27:37

there's a lot more to come.

Mark: 27:39

Absolutely. And again, if you throw the human, nature to ourselves to be distracted with social media, you know, just walking through a business if people are in the business or working remotely, you know, the devices that we, you know, are so attached to. Are a never ending knock on your door. You know, do you have a minute? Do you have a minute to watch this video? Do you have a minute? You know, and it's just like, oh my goodness. I don't begin to imagine what the impact on, I'll use the word productivity is, but focus and attention and deep work have got to be a challenge that's never been felt like this before. So you put all that together. It's a hot, it's a big soup.

Paul: 28:22

And if you're watching this as a clip at home, yes. You

Mark: 28:25

That's Yeah.

Paul: 28:26

So yeah I love that. Mark, who are your ideal clients to work with, and based on the conversation at the dinner table, what are they saying to their family or their partners at home that makes them. It's the trigger point that they should be speaking with somebody like yourself. Would you say.

Mark: 28:45

Yeah, that's a great question. I appreciate the question. You know, the people that I love working with, I. And are a great fit for me are people who, like I said, are CEOs owners of a business. You know, occasionally it strays into that category of, you know, senior leaders who run a really big organization within a big company and who have a sense of self-awareness like I have. I've done everything I can do. In spite of all my best efforts and everything I've brought to bear to help me and the business solve whatever the challenge it is that I'm confronting. out of solutions, I'm out of ideas, and I need some help. Right. And I think that's the point where the self-awareness component of it is I really look for. People who are open and willing, I. To know that they don't have to know and may not ever know all the answers. And by reaching out and inviting somebody else in to partner with them, that can accelerate sort of the breakthrough that gets them past whatever it is they're being, you know, challenged with. And usually at home around the kitchen table, it's, I don't know what to do, you know, and I've tried everything. I'm stuck I know that we, there's so much more potential. not living into the potential. Just had two, you know, guys yesterday in a conversation, it's a father and son, family owned business and that, you know, they've been stuck at a level of revenue and they're very frustrated. They've been there for a while and they just don't know how to get unstuck. And so. you know, if you go to my website, you'll see like, you know, you don't get stuck by, you don't drown by falling in the river, you drown by staying in it. Right? That's a

Paul: 30:32

Yep.

Mark: 30:32

that's right there. It's this idea of, you know, you, you need to

Paul: 30:36

I love that.

Mark: 30:36

get yourself out of there. So anyway, that, that's what I would say would be the ideal client. It's you know, it doesn't matter the industry. I've worked across virtually every industry that you could categorize. just the role and that sense.

Paul: 30:50

I love it. Mark, thank you very much for being a fantastic guest for us today on the show

Mark: 30:55

Thank you so much, Paul. It's been a pleasure. Really enjoyed being here.

Paul: 30:58

and once again, thank you everyone at home for coming along and joining us. Thank you to our charity partners, ADHD, Liberty, and I will see you again next week for another episode.