What to Do When Motivation Disappears in Business | Willie Nicol

What happens when the career you’ve built your identity on... just stops feeling right?

Willie Nicol spent over 30 years in policing, moved into corporate security, and found himself completely lost after an unexpected redundancy. In this episode of MarketPulse: Pros & Pioneers, Willie gets brutally honest about what burnout looks like, how he lost his “mojo,” and why helping men reset their mindset has become his mission.

We talk about how his background in Special Branch helped shape his coaching style, how his wife gave him the nudge he needed to take the leap, and why he’s allergic to “psychobabble.” Willie’s straight-talking, structured, 90-day framework for personal growth has helped dozens of men move from stuck to strong.

You’ll hear client wins, practical advice, and why sometimes your biggest breakthrough comes after everything falls apart. If you’re feeling unmotivated, disconnected, or just tired of pretending you’re fine, this conversation is for you.

Subscribe on YouTube to catch the full episode:
 https://www.youtube.com/@marketpulsepodcast?sub_confirmation=1

Subscribe to the podcast across all platforms – https://marketpulse.javelincontent.com/share
Powered by Javelin Content – https://www.javelincontent.com
Find Paul on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-banks007

Charity Partner: ADHD Liberty – Learn more at:
 http://www.ADHDLiberty.org
http://www.SarahTempleton.org.uk
http://www.HeadstuffADHDTherapy.com

#Entrepreneurship #BusinessPodcast #FounderStories #MindsetCoach #LifeChange #BurnoutSupport #MentalFitness #CoachingForMen

Thanks for listening!!

You can catch us on all major podcast directories - New episode every Wednesday at 3pm UK time. Give us a subscribe to make sure you don't miss out!

We're also on YouTube!

If you want to feature as a guest, and you're either a business owner who does most of their own marketing, or you're a marketer with a passion for sharing your knowledge, current trends and adding value, reach out to me directly.

This show is brought to you by Javelin Content Management.

We're a husband and wife team who specialise in helping fascinating people launch amazing podcasts, where we extract all of the content 'juice' by squeezing their episodes and repurposing the clips.

We manage podcasts across lots of industries and sectors for our clients, specialising in hosts with ADHD and neurodiversity (like us!)

We also work with existing podcasters who just want to get the hard work off their hands, or who are finding the whole process tiring and dull!

Transcript

Paul: 0:00

Ever feel like you are stuck in a rut? Willie Nicol is about to share how to shift your mindset, overcome burnout, and get your more jaw back without all the Psychobabble. Willy Nicol is a personal development and mindset coach dedicated to helping men break free from stress, burnout, and feeling stuck after earning a law degree from the University of Glasgow. Willy spent 31 years in the police force, followed by seven years in corporate security. But when an unexpected redundancy forced a major career shift, he reinvented himself, trained in life coaching, hypnotherapy and Neuro ling, edit and neurolinguistic programming and LP to help others make transformative changes in their lives. Through Willy Nicol coaching, he now works with men who are ready to reclaim their confidence, motivation, and direction. Without the fluff, just real practical mindset shifts that lead to real results. Willie, welcome to the show. How are you?

Willie: 1:00

Thank you, Paul. I'm very well. It's a delight to be here.

Paul: 1:03

Fantastic. Thanks very much for coming along and being a guest. Having spent some time in the force as we discussed offline. Having spent 10 years as a volunteer police officer myself. When I got the opportunity to speak with you, I think the the alignment was too ob obvious not to take the opportunity to have you along for the podcast today. So hoping to kind of share some of the gems that will both appreciate very much from our previous lives and bring things to life. But I'm gonna start back at the beginning as I do with all our guests because I'm a big believer that whilst we might not end up where we originally intended to be, we always get where we're meant to be. One way or another. Usually we describe it as accidental, but I don't believe it is. I think there's a there's an underlying, you can call it destiny, you can call it faith. You can call it a larger plan, whatever you want to call it. But I think there's something there that, that gets us where we want to go. But why did you choose policing in the first place?

Willie: 1:55

well, that's quite a long story, Paul. I didn't do very well at university because there were too many distractions, and as a, an impressional young man I enjoyed these distractions. So when I got my law degree, I failed to find a post in a lawyer's office. I. I was about to get married and decided I needed a steady job. So someone suggested the police. I thought, I'll try this for a couple of years, and 31 years later I retired.

Paul: 2:22

Did you have a feeling when you first joined up with the police? I mean, it's not an easy it never has been an easy process to get through, right? Like it's quite in intimidating and intentional at times. Did you get the feeling that after you joined, that this was something that you might end up doing longer? Or was it still just kind of, even when you got through and got to independent patrol, you were still like, yeah. Few years and I'll move on.

Willie: 2:43

There was a bit of that, to be honest. I thought I'll give it. I don't know, three or four years. You had to do a two year probationary period. And then if you were smart, you would sit your exams, which unfortunately I didn't do'cause I wasn't smart. But I got to a point where I began to realize I was enjoying it. I did a lot of interesting stuff plain clothes undercover, and it was a. A joy if you like to see results, to see the bad guys put away and the good guys helped. So that kind of stuck. And I moved about quite a bit in various roles because I got easily bored and thought what's the next challenge? So I kinda jumped about a bit in terms of roles and also locations which kept things interesting.

Paul: 3:31

I think there's a lot of parallels that you've mentioned there, and I can't speak for you, but I put mine down now knowing a bit more about myself, I put mine down to ADHD and just that always a constant search for the next dopamine hit for me is if I'm not learning. Or I'll feel like I'm not learning, even if I am then I very much get stuck in a rut and start to feel negative about where I am. And I'm always, I've always done that. I've always searched for more, I think is fair to say. Do you think you see elements of that in yourself?

Willie: 4:00

I agree. Did uniform plain clothes, got a bit bored with that. Plus I was traveling 35 miles each way, commuting from the, I feel like the sticks to the country, into the city. So I made a decision to apply to get a post near to home, which I did. I then applied for and gained entry to the CID, which was interesting murder inquiries, things like that. Then after a few years of that, I was kinda poached to think about going to another department, a special department. I'll say no more than that. After. Brief interview. I ended up the special branch for four years doing a variety of things, some of which I can't tell you about otherwise I'd have to shoot you. But very interesting, close protection undercover work, agent handling probably the best four or five years of my service. It was never a dull moment. And then they decided to promote me into uniform. Aallthat CID special brand experience. So I went to become a uniformed sergeant in charge of other uniformed officers, which was a bit of a culture shock

Paul: 5:11

For everyone.

Willie: 5:12

that lasted for a couple of years until they decided they put me somewhere else, which could possibly better utilize the skills I'd gained previously.

Paul: 5:21

So what then led you to, you know, if I'm gonna go back to things how did you end up leaving the police force? Was that retirement do, was it by choice? Was it

Willie: 5:30

it was service retirement. When I joined 30 years was the limit. I was working in a role in intelligence management for major inquiries, and there weren't many trained intelligence managers in the force at that time. I. So by the time they, they got a replacement for me. I had done 31 years and decided kinda mutually it was time to go. So I started kinda looking at'em about for another job and one fell in my lap quite funnily enough, and I thought, yeah, time to go. I've got a new job to go to. And that's that.

Paul: 6:02

And it's a fairly typical path, I'd say for a lot of senior police officers who've done their service in the job. And I don't see a lot of officers these days who actually make it to retirement. You know, I see a lot of cannibalization well ahead of that time now, and it's certainly not the. It hasn't got the status that it used to have, sadly. Which, which frustrates me massively.'cause I'm a huge believer in the police force is a career for a lot of people. But that's a, that, I guess that's a conversation for another day.'cause it's a whole podcast for another day. Nevermind a conversation, I think. So you then stepped into another role in corporate security. How do we get from corporate security to being a life coach Willie?'cause that's a huge jump.

Willie: 6:38

It is. When I look back in it I realise now that I didn't realise what, how big a job that was. I worked for a multinational cash management company. I was the regional security manager for essentially the top half of the uk. The British organization was run from London and they didn't really have a lot of clue about the geography north of Leeds. They kinda got maybe as far as the border, but after that was a closed book to them and I was left to my own devices and I worked very hard for that company to sort out the many and varied security problems they had in that region because they hadn't had a security to manage for a year. And the natives had gone a wee bit off pace and were doing basically what they liked without regard to the security risks. And I was there to make sure that they started to tow the line again. And in addition to that I project managed a lot of big security installations, you know, alarm systems and new big metal doors and CCTV whatnot, until it got to a point where I was comfortable that all, everything was ticking over nicely. And sure enough not long after that, my line manager, along with somebody from HR came to see me. And hit me with a bombshell that everything's going really well, Willie, and we're very pleased. You've done a great job. However, we're not sure that your role as security manager for this region is required any longer, and it was adios and Pachios. So you can imagine Paul, that I was not best pleased having worked very hard and been rewarded by the threat of redundancy, however. During this period, my lovely wife who had done coaching training suggested I look at coaching as a potential career should the redundancy come to pass. And I dismissed this out of hand as a lot of nonsense because I was a detective. I was very logical and evidence-based, and I considered coaching to be so much psychobabble and mumbo jumbo. But, she booked me in a training course without telling me, and I went along to a little theory introduction to coaching and personal development determined to prove that it was lot nonsense. However, at the end of the three days, I had changed my mind, having had a few, what they call them, light bulb moments, epiphanies. I kinda, oh, okay then. Right. So this is still during the redundancy process and when I eventually was instructed to drive from Glasgow to Leeds for my final redundancy interview, a journey of some four hours to be told that I was gonna lose my job. I could see it coming. I was quite calm because I had a little thought of what I. could do And made redundant gardening leave. Eventually I was dispossessed of my company, car, laptop, et cetera. I thought, what now? So I put my money where my mouth was, took my redundancy money, and trained in the modalities you've already articulated. And then it was, what do I do now? The obvious answer was, I need to set up a business with absolutely no business experience. So I was fortunate having a lot of nice friends who supported me and now I know a lot more about business, not everything's low about marketing, sales, and so on and so forth. Content creation, visibility, all that good stuff to get yourself known as. My nickname is now the Mojo Man. I help men get their mojo back. So that was in a very short condensed story of how I went from cop to coach, which again is my kinda monicer, I Willie Nicol, cop to coach, which, which intrigues people because they've asked the same question as you did Paul. How on earth did you get from Cop to coach?

Paul: 10:33

Yeah. It's, do you know what I had a similar conversation a couple of weeks back with a guy called Anthony Solimi and Anthony was a banker who became a coach, but in the meantime also became a standup comedian. And I never thought I'd speak to a banker who could stand in front of a room and make people laugh. But you know, he's been there and done that. And this is what I find as we go through season two has been just so fun to record because some of the journeys that people have been on are mind boggling from the outside, but once they're explained, they make real sense. And you can see why people went on the journeys that they did. A question for you though, Willie. Do you think that your wife knowing you probably better than almost anyone saw something in you that she knew she needed to bring out? Or was it just kind of, well, we need to do something, so let's do this and I already know this and I can help you with it.

Willie: 11:25

It was a former, my wife's a very intuitive lady. In fact, she's an energy healer, energy artist, and very intuitive. And I guess she did see that, that I had potential in that regard. In fact, she tried to flatter me by saying, try coaching Willie. You'll be good at it. And I thought, you can't flatter me into it. a funny story though after I decided to set up coaching business I was advised to go networking to meet people and broaden my visibility and so on. And while walking into a venue, I bumped into a police officer I hadn't seen for, oh gosh. Probably 25 years. And we greet each other enthusiastically. This was a chap called Eddie who was known as Big Eddie because he was six foot five tall and they, when I met him, I had done a few years and he was just straight at a training school and I was allocated to task of being his trainer. So Eddie's 5, 6 foot 5. I'm 5 foot 10 solid.'cause I played rugby and we made a very incongruous couple. Walking the main streets of a very tough area in Glasgow. However, Eddie and I got in very well, and we had a super time during the training and eventually we parted ways. So I hadn't seen him for 25 years, and he asked me, what are you doing now when you're retired? And I said, well, I did copy security and now I've set up a coaching business. At which point you laughed at me, which was a, I thought it was quite a bit cheeky. Anyway, I said, okay, Eddie, why are you laughing? He came out with this Paul, which I find astounding. He said, Willie, you coached me. I saw you coaching other people. You just didn't realise you were doing it.

Paul: 13:02

Yep.

Willie: 13:03

And I thought, bloody hell, that's the best backhanded compliment I've ever been paid. And that at that point reinforced the notion in my head, Paul, that, yeah, I'm on the right track here. I did. Coach other people and didn't realise I was doing it.'cause I saw that as my function, particularly as a supervisor to coach your staff, build them up, help them get higher up the ladder, so to speak. And I thought, yeah, okay, that'll do. Me and Eddie and I still have a laugh about that.

Paul: 13:34

I love it. It, but it's true though that the people around us tend to see these things in us long before we see them in ourselves. And then we have those light bulb moments where everything starts to make sense. And that's, you know, that's part of what this season's all about. I wonder though, before we kind of move forward to your coaching business in a little bit more detail. We all see the posts on LinkedIn quite regularly about how wonderful business is as a self-employed entrepreneur and how people are making millions and the photos of their Ferraris that probably just stood beside in a coffee shop in York. What was the first part of your journey like as a coach? How was that adjustment from the world of policing and in security into running your own business?

Willie: 14:50

Well, there are a number of, I don't like to use the word, challenges, a number of things that kind of hit you like you are in charge, you're your own boss whether you make money or not, it's up to you whether you get clients or not. It's up to you. It's basically, if it's going to be, it's up to me and bloody hell like, okay, I better grasp this. How'd I make this work? And to be honest, I hadn't really given that too much thought. I'd done the training. I'd had a few pro bono clients that worked very well, and I thought, yeah, I can do this. The business side of it was pretty murky for me. I didn't have a clue essentially, but as I say, I had some nice people who helped me and gradually I got kind of. The hang of it, so to speak, the business side of it. I'm still not brilliant at it. To be fair, I'm not a business coach by any means. Oh, I can't help people who are starting out as I have done recently. But fortunately, very early on network, I met a lady who who we had a chat and the point of contact was her father had been in the police and she said, do you know so and so? And I said, well, actually I don't, but blah, blah, blah. What do you do Willie? And I told her. And a week later she contacted me and said, I've got someone I want you to speak to and cut a.Long story short, turns out this was her soon to be ex-husband. They had split up and were in the process of getting the divorce and she wasn't, she was a bit concerned about he'd gonna be bit off the rails had stopped going to the gym and he'd put on weight and he was just a bit down. I think he could do with a chat with someone like you. So we had a chat. And he considered that yeah, he'd got a wee bit off track stopped going to the gym, stopped playing football, stopped going out with his mates. And he was a bit, meh I suppose is the modern word. The Scottish word would be scunered which means down to the dumps and just not at it. And I said, okay, what is it you want? He said, I want my life back. his wife back. I want my life back. I want to get back on track. And he had a very good job with a government agency that I wouldn't name. And he was just plodding along, but he also decided he'd want a promotion. And I said, okay, you want your life back. And I just thought about all the things he'd spoken to me about. And for some bizarre reason, Paul, I said to him, I think you've lost your mojo motivation. You know, confidence, that kind of thing. And he looked at me and for a split second I thought I'd blown it. And he said, you know what? Were, you're absolutely right. I've lost my mojo. I've just not had it. I'm really down. I said, okay, how would it be if we went and looked and got your mojo back And he said, yeah, that'd be great. And so he did. We made an agreement there and then, and we did a 12 week program. He got his mojo back and he got his life back on track and he still keeps in touch with me periodically to this day to keep me updated in what's happening with him. And that was very gratifying that I had the, I used what skills I had in the training. I had to help that young man to get to where he wanted to be. And I thought, okay. Yeah, I can do this. And I'd made the mistake of thinking this. That was quite easy, right? I got an introduction, I got a client, helped them, and then realised that it's not that simple, but I plugged away at it. And I get most of my clients through word of mouth referrals. I still do a lot of networking, meet a lot of lovely people, but all I say is I'm here to help. And if you have the courage to ask for that help. I will be very happy to provide it.

Paul: 18:28

I love to hear the stories behind the early days of people's businesses because it's the defined moments for us, right? Like we often get into, especially when you start a completely new career or a new business, and we, you always have a Avis vision in your head of like, I'm gonna work with these sorts of people up here. And actually life takes you down its own path and you end up working with these sorts of people over here and that transition. Whilst it's painful is really powerful as well. And I think it, it helps us, you know, I don't believe there's many businesses out there that haven't transitioned to a better client type. Once they've fully understood themselves, you've gotta get going. You more or less take anything in the early days and then you realize what you enjoy working with. And I think you said something really powerful towards the end though, Willie was that people taking the choice to do something about what they're doing. And I talk a lot about what I call the two by two club, which is, you know, and I'm, I just make these numbers up, but 98% of people will never ask for help, will never do anything with their lives other than what's prescribed for them, what they end up doing, what the path they just find themselves on. 2% of those people will ask for help and support from people. But of those 2%, only 2% of those will actually do something with it. And it's powerful to meet somebody like yourself who's working with that 2% of the 2% who are both brave enough and courageous enough to ask for help and support, but actually implement it as well. Because I put words in your mouth here, but I'll be willing to bet that's the ultimate payment for you in the end. It's not about the money, it's about seeing the results for people. Right?

Willie: 20:05

Very much so the asking for help thing, right? I think we're. As humans, we're conditioned to try and do things all by ourselves, right? Because asking for help could be judged as a sign of weakness, and we're very adverse to being judged. We want to be self-sufficient. We want to be the author of our own Destiny, all that kind of stuff, right? And asking for help. Counterintuitively. It is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. It's a sign of clarity of thought. Now, I say to potential clients, you ask for help every day. What do you mean? Well, if your car breaks down, you take it to a mechanic'cause you don't know how to fix cars. If you get toothache you go to a dentist'cause you can't fix your teeth. Can you help me with this toothache doctor? Going to the doctor with a sore leg. Or if the heel falls off your shoe, you go to the cobbler to get it repaired. You're asking people for help every day you walk into the supermarket, tell me where the baked beans are please. And you're asking for that supermarket assistance help to find the baked beans. Right? But when it comes to your personal stuff, it comes to your personal things. Oh no. That's entirely different. That's a different kettle of fish because then you have to admit that there is something going on in your life that is not working out well for you. If you have that clarity of thought and that strength of purpose, you think, okay, if I can ask for help to find the baked beans, I can ask for help to address this thing that isn't working for me, and you're right, that's the first hurdle. And then when the discussion is had, will you accept my help? Yes or no? Are you committed to doing what has to be done, yes or no? If the answer's yes to those questions, I'll say, great, let's go and do it. But if you're not too clever about the help or you're not too committed to doing something about it, well, you and I are gonna partner friends. And I say that quite straightforwardly because inaction is not an option doing nothing. I. is not an option. Doing something, even if it's not great, is always better than doing nothing. And when you put that to people and they get the concept that against I said earlier, if it's going to be, it's up to me, right? If I'm gonna make changes in my life, I'm the only person that can make these changes. I don't make the changes for you. I don't tell you what changes to make. I create an environment where we discuss what's going on. The ideas, solutions, changes, or whatever will come to the client even if they didn't know they had them in the first place. Because all the solutions are inside us, Paul. Sometimes we choose to ignore it because it might be a bit difficult or a bit challenging, or that's too tough, I can't do that. Or we really don't know. I worked with a client recently who had a good business, who has a good business. A lady funnily enough, my first lady client a well. She was quite shy and introverted, and I met her at a networking meeting and I could tell right away that she wasn't comfortable. She had to stand up and see her piece and I noticed that her hand was shaking. I'm an ex detective, I noticed these things, right? And I said, afterwards, you uncomfortable, were you? I said, oh no. Said I could help you with that if you want. Well, could you? So we went, had a conversation over a coffee and that was it. I'll phone you next week, Willie while raise an appointment. And she did. So the three appointments down, she's taking a break on holiday and we'll have another appointment next week. And she's a changed lady because she now has a kind quiet confidence about her. She discovered and inner her strength. She didn't realise she had, she always had it. She didn't realise she had, and we teased that out using hypno therapy. And again, as you said earlier, Paul, it's very gratifying when you can literally see people change in front of your face. The way their face looks, the way their body looks, their body language. That has a change. She's, she has changed and she knows she's changed. She's not entirely sure how. And the another acid test is when people round about your client said, tell me I'm changed. I'm different, I think. There you go. That.

Paul: 24:21

I think I. What you are describing is probably my favorite part of my previous life in retail, right? Like I was a retail manager, a retail leader. I preferred not to manage, I preferred to be a leader, but actually my favorite part of the whole role was developing other people or as, as I describe it, helping them develop themselves. Because I think you're right. We all have the answers within ourselves and constantly going to other people for. Answers whilst they might help you discover the answers. If you are getting the answers from other people, then you are always gonna be reliant on other people. And there's a power inside all of us. I believe that we can be the masters of our own career, our own destiny, if you like, our family life, our home life. And I think if more people had the courage. To believe that they could find that within themselves, even if they need help to unlock it, even if they need somebody to support them on that journey. I, every successful business owner I've had the privilege of speaking to on this show has had that same realisation that right now the book stops with me and I need to find the answers. You know, we can all curl up in a ball and hope, bury our head in the sand and hope these things will go away. And, you know, if I've got a successful business, perhaps you can pay other people to do some of the stuff that you're not an expert at. Brilliant. But ultimately you need to figure out how to get along by yourself. What I thought was really interesting about. How you position yourself as a coach. You, obviously, it's a crowded space, right? There's millions of coaches out there, and it's certainly not alone in being a coach for burnt out men and hats off to you, Willie. I think it's brilliant because it's, something that's quite close to my heart. I see a lot, especially in ex retail colleagues burnt out. Men predominantly trying to do too much with too little support. But I find it interesting that you talk about psycho bubble because you are the only, like, I speak with a lot of coaches who have like master coaching qualifications and they're very proud of all of, you know, talk about NLP and all these things. And I love the fact that you just you're not interested in any of those phrases or the acronyms or the terminology. It's just about helping people. Right.

Willie: 26:26

Yes, it's about helping people. Yes, I do. I do use NLP techniques. I practice hypnotherapy with my clients. I pick a tool, if you like, from my toolbox, which I think will best fit the situation, but I. I don't like the psychobabble. That's a bit of support. I've got that in my LinkedIn profile. No psychobabble, no more mumbo jumble because I think that people will say, oh, thank goodness I couldn't take any psychobabble, right? So I position myself, you like ex cop security manager, a straight talker with a sense of humor, but with empathy and compassion. Not judgmental, but I'll tell you straight if I feel the need. If I feel, for example, they've come to me for help and they're not really committed. You said you were committed. Yeah. Yeah, I did, but I'm not feeling it. Okay. Well, right. But I'll try harder. No, not question. of Try harder. You will be harder. Right. And if that's tough it's done. It's like tough love, right? I'm here to help you. You're paying me, I'm here to help you. And it won't work unless you put the effort in because it's all about effort. It's about time, effort, and the money is the last thing on the list. You are investing your time, you're investing your energy and effort, and yes, you're investing a monetary component, but the first two are more important, right? If you want to get to where you want to be, and you're right, Paul, you mentioned the word choice earlier. We all have a choice. You can choose to remain where you are stuck, stressed, burned out. Which is not doing your mental or physical wellbeing any good, or you could choose to do something about it. I've made bad choices. We've all made bad choices, or we've all failed to make the right choice. I put my hands up everyone else. I'm only human. People beat themselves up now because, oh, I didn't do that properly. Give yourself a break, right? You made a mistake. You didn't do this or did do that and it wasn't the ideal thing to do. Put it to one side, it's in the past make better choices. Now you can change your life. A wee a bit like Mission Impossible. This is your mission. You can change your life if you choose to accept the mission, Mr. Hunt. And this tape will self-destructive. in Five seconds, right? A lot of people don't make that choice, or they do make a choice. They choose to remain where they are in their comfort zone, in that little bubble where they feel safe. But people who. Push the envelope, bust through the bubble. They're the ones making the progress. They're the ones getting to where they want to be. They're the ones leaving the stress and burnout behind. Or if not leaving it behind, managing it much better. One of people I met in one of my very first training courses, a lady whose name I won't mention, but she helped me a immeasurably A young lady, she did the life coaching. Went into business coaching because she had a failed business. She had gone bankrupt. Her husband's business failed, and she was determined that she would do something else. And then she realizes business was her passion. So she became a business coach, a very good business coach. And last year she, as we talked about, wanted a new challenge, wanted to move, and she took her whole family. Her husband, her son, her dog and her horse, and went to Dubai because she loved, she researched it, Dubai's the place for me. And she runs her coaching business from Dubai. And she, funny, you should talk about fancy cars. She put a post on LinkedIn, her son was beside a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or something like that, right. And it was just a bit of fun. And I mentioned or commented on the post well. The name of the son will need to work really hard if he wants to get one of those babies. And she replied, oh, he's already got the mindset and the lad's 12 or 13. Right? Because he's watched his mom do what she's done and thinking, yeah, what a bit of that. So he's made a choice. If I want to get that fancy red Ferrari whatever it was, I'm going to have to do A, B, and C. And I wish I'd known that at the age of 13, Paul. That you had that choice If you want to do whatever it is you want to do, because at that time you went to school, you did what you gotta do. And there we are. The thing I would like to leave all your listeners with is you always have a choice, right? You always have a choice.

Paul: 31:01

Willie, that's a powerful way to end the episode, and I could have, couldn't have asked for you to end it on a better note. So thank you very much for your conversation this afternoon. I've thoroughly enjoyed our chat. I'll make sure that your contact details are in the notes for anybody who might be listening along, who thinks, do you know what? That might be a conversation for me to have or that, that was really interesting, so I'll make sure they're all in there. Thank you very much for taking the time to be one of our guests today, Willie. It's been a privilege.

Willie: 31:27

No, the pleasure has all been I enjoy talking about what I do. If people find my journey. The story of my journey. Interesting. I'd be happy to talk to anyone. A complimentary, confidential chat. No pitch, no judgment, no nothing, just a chat. If I can help. We'll have a conversation further. If I can help, I'll do my best to find someone else who can.

Paul: 31:47

Thanks very much for your time today, Willie. Take care and have a good evening.

Willie: 31:50

You too, Paul. Cheers.

Paul: 31:51

Byebye.