Why Most People Suck at Self-Promotion | Frank Agin

What if self-promotion is killing your business?

In this episode of MarketPulse: Pros and Pioneers, we welcome Frank Agin, founder of AmSpirit Business Connections and an authority on building value through meaningful relationships. Frank challenges the way we think about networking, referrals, and how true growth happens in business.

He shares why credentials aren't enough, why self-promotion fails, and how generosity (done right) can actually build a thriving business. From buying the competition to understanding why people really refer others, Frank's insights are a masterclass in strategy, authenticity, and lasting connections.

You'll also hear his thoughts on giving without losing, how to become referrable without asking, and why feeling dumb is a signal that needs to be heard — not hidden.

If you're ready to build smarter relationships, grow faster, and stop chasing the wrong kind of attention — this episode is essential listening.

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Transcript

Paul: 0:00

Do you think your network isn't working? This episode unpacks? Why your referrals have dried up and how to build a business that runs on trust, not transactions. Frank Agin is the founder and president of AmSpirit Business Connections referral focused networking organization that helps small businesses grow through trusted professional relationships. He's a lawyer by training and a CPA by background. Frank pivoted from Corporate Tax Consulting to entrepreneurship over 25 years ago after realizing that connection, not compliance was his real passion. Through AMSpirit, his podcast, Networking Rx, and multiple books on relationship building. Frank has become a go-to voice for professionals who want to build their voice and business through real human connections, not cold pitches. Frank, it's been a long time coming. Welcome to the show, my friend.

Frank: 0:56

Yeah, this is take two. The audience doesn't know we tried to do this once and ran into some technical issues, so there,

Paul: 1:03

Well.

Frank: 1:03

the Atlantics separating us, right?

Paul: 1:05

And technology more at the point. Yeah. Technology. So yeah, I, I have to if the audience are watching along on this I've been featured on Frank's fantastic podcast twice now. So many thanks to you for having me on the show. And finally, I realised that my podcast that I'm currently running was a great fit for you as well because you have an interesting background and story and. As we've discussed a lot on this show we might not get where we thought we were gonna be, but we certainly end up where we're meant to and I'm looking forward to digging into a little bit of that journey of yours, Frank, today. Because to be honest, it's not something we've ever spoke about privately either. So be interesting to understand a bit more about your journey. You started in law and accounting. Why would you do that to yourself, Frank?

Frank: 1:51

Well, no, that's a good question. I ask myself that question all the time. My dad asked me that question too. You know, can't believe you ever did that. That's so not you. You know, I, my, my dad was a professor, my mom was an educator, and so I grew up in a household where eductaion do well. That's the ticket. And so you go off to college and you do well, and they, well, you need to, you know, go to grad school, go on. And I'm like, well, I'll go to law school. I'll, you know, go get a, an MBA, I'll get a professional degree, I'll get an advanced degree. And then you, it's kind of a fallacy you think, you know, the more you move up, the more your opportunities. And in many ways it really kind of narrows them. You start to pigeonhole yourself and you're taking a lot of tax classes and then you're kind of, you know, you're earmarked as a tax person. It's like, How this is supposed to work. And and then you get out there, you get the offer letter and I'm making good money. And while this is great and and then after a while you realise okay, this isn't fun. Is not this can't be the next 40 years of my life. So that's how it really all began. And I think that story in is similar for a lot of people because when we're coming out of, you know, in, in the United States High School on to college, it's like, we, you need to start making these life decisions you don't really even know what, you know, you don't really even know what you wanna do.

Paul: 3:13

No.

Frank: 3:14

so that's how I ended up in that.

Paul: 3:16

What was the moment? Was there a trigger for you when enough was enough?

Frank: 3:21

Y Yeah, it was a couple years in. There was a trigger, but I was smart enough to know that, you know what? I need to plan. I can't just leave. I need to have a plan. I need to know where I want to go. I was al always been very entrepreneurial. As a kid, I would sell. I. We lived in a tourist area. We sell worms right night, crawlers, we call'em you know, basically have a sign on the road and people would pay 35 cents, a dozen or three dozens for a dollar or three dozen for a dollar or something like that. And I was very entrepreneurial. And I knew that I kind of wanted to control my own destiny. And so I planned and planned figuring, okay, I have this law degree. I don't hate being a lawyer. And there's lots of different things that you can do being a lawyer, you know, here's tax, here's all the stuff, right? Here's all the business stuff. some of it's, you know, really kind of exciting. And so probably about six years into it I finally just said, okay, I've gotta do this.'cause at some point you just, you have to make the leap, right? You've been there. I know I want to, I'm, it's never simple, right? Where you're just leaving and all of a sudden you're replacing your income overnight. It's never that simple. I left and I tell people that a funny thing happened to me when I went into what I call the private practice of law. And the funny thing was that NOTHING happened. I had No idea how to get clients. They don't teach you that. I just figured got this experience, a great experience. e I had these credentials. I had a law degree, I had a graduate business degree, I had a certified public accounting degree certification. Who wouldn't want me, who wouldn't wanna take me on Right. To help them? is right.'cause I didn't have all the overhead of the big firm and, and you know. It just didn't happen. It's, and it's not supposed to, but I had lunch one day with a friend and I was just kinda lamenting, you know, where I was at. And she had taken a different path outta law school and had started her own firm. So she didn't really have an income to replace. She could just right from the beginning, start to build this thing up. I just said, how do I get to where you're at? And she just gave me some suggestions. One of the suggestions was. Get into a TIPS club or a leads group like A BNI, I really had no idea what she was talking about, but there was an organization that was just starting groups here in, in the Columbus, where I'm at Columbus, Ohio Central part of the United States. It wasn't BNI. It was very similar to BNI. I went to a meeting and it made total sense that I could lift my whole world up, just helping other people. Networking, right? I had no idea what networking was. And I took to it like a fish to water because it's so easy for me to promote other people and just painful to self-promote, just, it's just hard. And that's not true of everybody, but most people don't wanna spend a whole lot of time self-promoting you. You really put yourself at risk. Of either sounding obnoxious or being challenged. And so I had, you know, got into this organization, it was doing, didn't it? I mean, it wasn't an overnight success, but I at least had a, I had a plan at that point. I could start to work this group. I could start to build these relationships and, make a long story short, it was probably another six years, but I had the opportunity to buy the organization and I did. And that's, and at that point I said, you know, I don't, you know, I enjoy practicing law, but there are new attorneys are graduating every year, thousands of them. And there's nothing unique about it. And so, and you're really not building anything. You're getting clients and you're serving clients with the networking organization, which you've mentioned is called AMSpirit Business Connections. I can. Build something, I can create content that has meaning. And you know, it's just you're building a brand, you're building a following. So

Paul: 7:23

I think that's. I think that's true for anybody who works in what are typically quite undifferentiated spaces, right? Nobody comes to a lawyer because they've got nice problems. Right? Nobody comes to an accountant because they love the idea of having an accountant. Nobody, you know, there's, there, there are necessary evils in the world. World and unfortunately lawyers and accountants and such are in that ball. We have, we couldn't live without them, but they're absolutely really tough to. Differentiate and I guess you meet some fascinating people, I have no doubt. But like in those early days, like I'm guessing imposter syndrome and the fear that you weren't enough must have been quite heavy on your shoulders, right?

Frank: 8:04

Well, sure. I when I think that's always there because none of us have. None of us have the same experiences. And so the second you hear about somebody else's experience, it's like, Ooh, done this, and this, but I didn't do this. You know? So, and we just assume they've done all these other things. In reality, this might've been the only thing they ever done. And they're looking at us saying, wow, all this, here's all this stuff I haven't Yeah, I mean, there was, you know, there's certainly the whole notion of imposter syndrome. I mean, I, you know, we I still run into it, you know, I look at other people and I think the internet lends itself well to fueling that sort of, sorts of feelings. And you just have to realise okay, you know, I hear what they're saying. Chances are they didn't do that in six months. They just didn't, you know. I don't

Paul: 8:58

Or it's not the full picture. Yeah.

Frank: 9:01

I don't have the time to check. I don't want to take the time. It doesn't matter. I'm doing what I need to do.

Paul: 9:08

So you talked earlier about the good feeling and the lifting yourself up. I think you described it as by through networking. For those people who were watching along, who still, I mean, we were fortunate enough a few weeks ago to have the fantastic Bob Berg on the show Right. So, I'm absolutely, you know, anybody who listens to me talk knows that I'm in on what you are talking about to here I love it. I love adding that value, helping people, networking. What is it, what were your worries when you first started out on that trip though? Because at the beginning we all kind of. Have this concern that, or I think most people do that we don't have anything to give in return. We're networking with people, but what's my value that I'm going to add other than the obvious?

Frank: 9:53

Yeah. Well, and I think that's something that people need to come to grips with is that we do have value. I mean, I tell people all the time, the biggest thing you have to offer to your network is your network itself, right? it's like I've introduced you to people. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but it's like I know that there are people in my world that could help you and you could help them. And so I'm gonna try and make those introductions. doesn't cost me anything. I could be the broker, right? Hey, Paul, if I'm gonna connect you with Marise you guys have your conversation through me. well thats a waste of time, you know? And nobody wants to deal like that, so it's just easier to kind of make the connections. But you just in, in time, you start to realise that you do have things to offer. You know, it's well, I've had this experience, this one and this one, but not this, you know, I can help somebody with these experiences and they can help me with this. And of times people look at networking as kind of this. You hear the notion need to give before you get, it's like, well that doesn't make sense because I'll end up, you know, I'll end up broke. well, no, you're giving away things that are replaceable or that don't deplete you giving somebody information or making a connection for somebody. It doesn't deplete me. I'm just sharing what I have. whereas if you're giving money, then yeah, you're gonna be depleted. You know, so it's just kind of coming, you know, coming to, just realizing that you have these things in your life. You have experiences, you have connections and those are real value that you can hand out to other people.

Paul: 11:36

So as you went along, building that.. I guess you could call it a community, right? Network or community, whatever you want to, whatever you want to class it as coming from the background that you had and you know, we all know that lawyers and accountants traditionally earn quite good money. It's far from a poor man's trade or a poor woman's trade. Was there a time when you just kind of sat there and thought, what am I doing? It's just like. I should go back and be a lawyer like,'cause the money's much better than what I'm doing now, or it's, there was a more defined career path. And if I'd stayed as a partner at a, you know, I could have made partner by now or I had What were your thoughts on there? Was were the moments of doubt? I.

Frank: 12:52

Well there, I mean, there've always been moments of doubt. Yeah. There were mo moments of doubt early on. Really early on there were, because I, you know, the, I had spent enough time doing taxes. I had a real specialisation I had a real skill set that w was, and still is in demand. I mean, it's, my skill sets gone. It's atrophy. The laws have changed. But at that time there was a real skill set and I had companies reaching out saying, we understand you're available. Would you be interested coming to work? And you have to do a little bit of soul searching and say, okay. Are you gonna be happy? And the answer is no. I'm not gonna be happy. I'll be happy on payday. You know? But payday comes depending upon where you're at once a month, once every other week. You know, it's it, you know, it's

Paul: 13:43

I don't even think we're happy on payday. Honestly. I don't even think we're happy on payday. You don't even notice it come in. You don't even notice it come in. There's no worry that it's gonna come in. I guess that's, that is a bonus of being in one of those kind of jobs like. I don't really worry that I'm gonna lose my job until it actually happens. Let's be fair.'cause it does happen. And, but now you're a master of your own destiny and the power to prevent that happenings in your grasp. And I lo I love,

Frank: 14:07

Yeah.

Paul: 14:07

certainly from my perspective, I think that's huge for me. Marketing through referrals, then? Talk us through what's your approach to referral based marketing?

Frank: 14:17

Well, I think the f you know, for me, number one, you have to be willing to help other people. You have to be willing to add value to other people. That's that's the first thing. and we've kind of already talked about, there's lots of ways you can add value. I. The second thing you need to do is you need to be really clear on the types of things that you want. You know, who are, you know, who are the people you serve, and when do you serve them? And letting the people around you know that. and to be honest, Paul, I think that's probably the biggest mistake or the biggest problem people run into, is they assume that everybody understands what they're about. And. Don't, and people are just too nice to say anything. I was talking to human relations person last week. Consultant had their own business. And yo I do I'm an HR person, and she just kind of talked in these terms and just assumed that I would catch onto them. And I pushed back on her. Well, I explained to her, I said, you know, I wanna help you. I like you. But I don't understand what you mean. And have all these stories you can tell that can help paint a picture for how I could refer you. But you choose to tell all these stories in one 32nd commercial, and my brain doesn't hang onto that one 32nd commercial. But if you tell me a couple of these stories, my brain will hang onto those. And her, of course, her response is, well, how do I know what stories to tell? And you know, what if I tell these three and really the opportunity is the fourth? Well, that's a risk you run. But when you're doing the blanket 32nd commercial, I miss everything. So you might as well take a chance on these. And the reality is you know, when you go to a networking event, somebody asks, what do you do? You need to be ready with an answer. Right? This is what Javelin's all about, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you feel like, okay, I've missed the opportunity. in reality, nobody does business on that first meeting anyway, right? It's the second meeting. It's the third meeting where you're really getting to know one another, and that's when you have the opportunity to kind of really dial into the stories, you know? Well, as an attorney, these are the kinds of things I do, you know? Oh, I didn't realise that. You know, I didn't realise that was part of being a lawyer. Everyone thinks going to court is what lawyers do and most don't. so that's, you know, really the second piece of getting or marketing for referrals. And then the third thing is that you need to educate your network on how to talk about you when you are not there, you know? So, Paul, I like you, right? And you've told me about Javelin. I get a sense as to what you're looking for. I come across somebody that's a good fit for you, you know, me liking you is in my heart, me knowing what you're about is in my head. But until something comes out of my mouth and says, you know what? There's a guy I need to introduce you to, lemme tell you a little about him. thats kind of the last piece. Then the, that's what makes the referral happen. So it's really those three things that need to happen.

Paul: 17:18

And I think a lot of the time we probably have an idea. Here that's what we need to do. But then people back off from that because it feels, oh, I don't know. It feels a bit uncomfortable to do that.'cause it kind of feels like you're asking of people, but you are. The thing that people don't realise is that quite a lot of the time, if you've been doing good in the world, people want to help you. You're not asking them of something like it's, you're allowing them to be reciproc reciprocal. If I can say my words. You're allowing them that, that ability to be. Gracious of the introductions you've probably already made for them, the help you've already provided. Now, let them help you because they do actually want to help you. Most people do. But you've, to your point, you've gotta give them the toolkit that understands. So I, you know, I'd use an example a good friend of mine, referral partner of mine, she's a branding lady, so she helps people with their brand messaging, their graphic design. And I, I said to her like, look, tell me who your ideal audience are. And she gave me this really broad, generic description of, it could be any audience. I was like, there that, that's great, but there's no, there's nothing sticking in here. Like, you need to go deeper. She was like, oh, well this type of people. I was like you're closer to the mark. What do they have for breakfast? And she was like, what? I was like, what do they have for breakfast? And she was like I don't know what you mean. What's that gonna do with anything? I was like, well, really, it's got nothing to do with anything, but it's also the sort of level that you need to be going to here. Like, who are these people? How will I know that I've got one of your people in front of me when they're standing staring me in the face? What things are they saying that I can go, ha, I remember floss, that I had to keep an eye out for that. Or I had to remember that Steve said I had to keep an eye out for that, or whatever. Those are the conversations that we can go, you've been sent to me for a reason. Like we're connected for a reason. I'm now gonna make an introduction because you've said the magic phrase. And that conviction on my behalf as the referrer is equally as important, right? Like to, well, exactly what you said earlier on. Well, I can introduce you to Frank. Frank. Frank does I dunno what he does or he does, just some networking kind of stuff and he helps. Oh, I don't want that intro. If I'm the other person on the other end, I'm going no, thanks Paul. I don't really want that intro, so I think that. Is for me key. And I know that's kind of core to what you are, like, how do you help people understand how to get to the core of that message though? Because that's, I imagine that's something you help people with quite a lot is how do the, how do you decide what to put in your elevator pitch?

Frank: 19:47

Well, you know, it's funny because I bring up the notion that people do a poor job of talking about. Themselves. everybody laughs like, oh, you are right. They are all horrible. And my response is, yes, we are all horrible. I'm horrible. You are horrible. We're all horrible. We all do a poor job of it. and so, you know, I, I. I own it, you know, I need to do a better job and I constantly have to work on it and have to, okay, why did I say it that way? I should have said it this way, you know? So it's a work in progress and we come by it. We come by it honestly. Because you know, like you with javelin, I mean, you're probably working in thinking about javelin 16, 17 hours a day. Right. Even with your family, things are going on in your mind, and so you really really, understand it. And the average person only thinks about it when you're talking to them, right? For that little bit of time. And then they've got their other things to think about. And so, you know, and I knew this when I practiced law. I was just like, okay, everybody's gotta understand this, right? I. I know all this stuff. They must know all this stuff. And in reality, know any of it. So, you know, you ask the question, you know, how do I, you know, start, I just start by, at other people. What's happening with other people is you you know don't be ashamed. No, be optimistic because there's so much potential for you to improve So much potential.

Paul: 21:20

So AMSpirit. Tell me about AMSpirit.

Frank: 21:24

Yeah, well, I, you know, it's hard for me to compare because I've never been in other organizations, but I do know what we're passionate about and it's referrals. I'm not worried about growing groups to be huge. I'm worried about. to make sure the people in the organization have a successful ex experience. so myself and other my franchisees who are out, people who are working with groups, people who are in groups and helping with within groups we talk through essentially what I just went through on here. You know, it's like, okay, it's easy to build a relationship. We're all really good at that. We're humans for the most part. Now let's really home,.in on our messaging, you know, one member said to me, yeah if he told the rest of the people in the group, if I don't under, you know, if I don't understand what you're saying, I feel dumb and I can't refer you if I feel dumb, So I need to be very confident in what you're about. So let's have a conversation. So. Is that our differentiator? I don't know, but I just know that we're all very passionate about it. are lots of different types of networking groups out there. The people who come to us are the people who want referrals, so we need to really lean into being super super, proficient at helping people understand they work. not everybody will take the time, but a lot of people do. And that those are the people we serve.

Paul: 22:53

Amazing and. If you are looking at someone who's just joined AMSpirit and we're perhaps doing a bit of critique and a bit of troubleshooting to help them take that first step

Frank: 23:03

What I tell people is stop trying to have that. One super awesome 30 second commercial that just flows off your tongue, right? Don't worry about that. I want you to have 50 that are mediocre that every week can come in and kind of tell a different story. This week I'm talking about this flavor of ice cream. This week I'm talking about another flavor, and this fla and every week, have a rotation of different things you're talking about. and when you've, through the rotation, start all over again. Because the way the human brain works is it hangs onto all those little stories. One of the things I do is I'll go into groups. I'll bring a Rubik's cube. You know what a Rubik's cube is, right? I've never solved a Rubik's cube. And the reason I've never solved, oh, there you go. Yep. never solved it because I haven't committed the time. Now, there are ways of doing it. You could look online, you could figure it out. And if you pay me$10,000, I will learn how to do a Rubik's Cube. But if you're not gonna incentivise me to figure out a Rubik's cube, I won't do it. And so what I tell people is when you come at somebody with that 32nd commercial as you illustrated, where the person was like, ah, you know, I have no idea what you're talking about. What that person was saying to you is, Paul, here's a Rubik's Cube. Solve it. You're like, I'm not gonna waste, you know, I'm not gonna devote time to it. So I tell people, you need to simplify it. You need to give things that just stick in people's brains. And so I. Have all these different commercials that you can come up with. And actually we've put some we've done some things on with ai that people can kind of have a conversation about their, Hey, this is what I do, and the AI will come back and say, well, here's some messaging. Can you give me a website to look at? And it'll, you know, do you want me to make commercials for you? Yeah. Here's 36 commercials. So we do a, we're all about referrals.

Paul: 24:59

I, and what you've said really aligned with my world as well, right? Like, because that's why I love video because video helps people tell those little snippets We spend so much time worrying about, as you said, you've said so many. So many honest, candid things today, Frank, and I love that about you is, you know, the like, I can't refer people'cause I feel too dumb'cause I didn't understand what you said. That takes a brave person to admit that or be even conscious that they've done that, although plenty of us will do that exact thing. And you know, the more times you tell your story to the world, the better you'll refine it. You'll understand which audiences like that story, which version you need to tell to different people, which bits to put in, which bits to take out. And it's a constantly evolving thing, but people spend so much time trying to get that, you know, when I deal with that, you know, Paul I've recorded my elevator pitch for the website and I've done it 14 times. I can't get it right. What's going on? I'm like, you're trying to go straight in at the deep end. You can't possibly try and do that the first time on video, right? You've got to figure it out bit by bit, networking, telling the story, telling who you are, and don't be shy of bringing that personal level into it as well. You know, I, you know, I go into a networking group, I tell them, what do you do, Paul? Well, first of all I get very little sleep because I've got two young boys. One of them's just had the edge the side guide rails taken off his cot. So he spends most of the day running in and outta my bedroom trying to keep me awake. And the other one. Oh, he just, he comes up with conjures ideas up as to why he needs to come downstairs after I put him to bed. Right. Like, so, excuse me if I don't make much sense in the networking session today.'cause I probably had about three hours last night. Thanks. Thanks kids. And, but that sticks. Oh, Paul's the guy with the crazy kids. Yeah

Frank: 26:42

Yeah.

Paul: 26:42

bit crazy myself to be fair, but you know, we'll get to that later. Frank, I'll thoroughly enjoy. And it like, I always love it when I've got folks like yourself on,'cause it does generally feel more like a conversation than an interview or a podcast. So thank you very much for coming along. If folks wanna find out more about AMSpirit, I will make sure I put all the links in the show notes. So please do read down, scroll click. Frank's fantastic. I can vouch firsthand for his top-notch referrals and networking abilities. And I'm sure that the groups are every bit as, powerful as his connections are. So definitely have a think about that and look into it. Frank what's one thing you'd leave the audience with for this week's episode?

Frank: 27:17

Well, let me give you two quick things. One the best way to get yourself networked Get out there and volunteer, find something that you're interested in and go ahead and volunteer.'cause you're gonna feel good about it, but you're gonna be with other people that you don't know who are interested in the same things, and they're gonna think that, you know, well, they're gonna know that you're a good person. And then you just need to educate them. But the second thing I'll say is I'm releasing a number of audio books and I have a series of. Free download codes off of Audible and Amazon are only good in the uk. I don't know a ton of people in the uk so I have all these codes. So if somebody would like free books I'm happy to give them codes.

Paul: 27:58

So if you're interested in that, connect with Frank, drop him a line, and he will absolutely drop those over to you. Frank, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for being a great guest. We'll have to have you back again. Take care. Thanks for watching along at home. Make sure to hit the button subscribe. Thank you. Bye-bye.